I had a issue cycling subs out of the rattler early on . The issue early on was with the lancer .223 mag that came with it. When I picked up some additional mags I grabbed the ones that had 300 stamped on them so I could identify them easier. Then I realized pretty quickly that the dedicated 300 BLK lancer mag with 300 stamped come with a heavier springs designed specifically for heavier sub ammo. Cured the issue for me.
I have a Sig Rattler and a Daniel Defense PDW 300 BO. I use a Silencerco Omega 300 on both and have never had a issue with subsonic ammo. Locks back etc. I don't plan on taking my suppressor in the mud lol. I think the military will figure that portion out.
i mean, no one plans on guns encountering poor conditions but you want them to be able to because unexpected things happens. its more likely you drop your gun in the mud than you need to shoot someone with it haha. its great that yours works as it should though! not all of us are that lucky and for sig to not support their $2700 product, its just an unacceptable gamble.
I was thinking about using my omega on a rattler if I got one but silencerco only rates them down to 7 inches for 300 blackout I believe. Id be worried about voiding the warranty if something were to happen.
@@TandCEveryDay I use mine all the time. I had the same worry as well. I called Silencerco customer service to verify. They said it was fine at that length with subsonic ammunition. Never had a issue and they said to me, warranty won't be voided.
This guy is so caught up on making subs work in a shorty self defense gun he doesn’t ask if he should use subs in a self defense gun. Most subs are non-expand or are fragmenting gimmicks which are dubious in their effectiveness. Unless your are a Delta-Ranger-Team-66 operator who can hit the bullseye every time inverted behind your back, stick to suppers for life and death situations.
would you like me to point you to subsonic rounds that are perfect for self dense and hunting and wont endanger your hearing or over penetrate half as much as a supersonic 300bo round? it doesnt take an "operator" to be extremely accurate and effective with a PDW, that is why they are so popular. try shooting a group with a shouldered PDW with a red dot then try to shoot a group with your pistol... you will think you are a super operator haha. not only is it very easy to be accurate with a PDW, you can be accurate with a high volume of fire as well. supers on the other hand.... now you need to worry about your hearing, awareness, and how many walls are between your threat and your kids, dogs, neighbors, etc etc. especially in a 125gr 300bo self defense round with a ton of power and momentum. so yes, subsonic rounds are a fantastic choice for self defense in civilian self defense based situations. and why would i bother having multiple completely different caliber setups when I can just run 1 for everything with a properly functioning gun.
i might as well add... i do know and have trained with Delta-Range-Team-66 operators and firearms enthusiasts that recommend and personally choose subsonic rounds for all these reasons as well.
Interestingly in my experience, the DDM4 PDW and Sig Rattler both ran subsonic unsuppressed just fine(yes, out of the box. Silver spring for DDM4). Rattler only had a bit of a problem running very low-powered 220gr unsuppressed on -, but fine on +. DDM4 even came with a reduced power red spring meant to cycle subs unsuppressed, pointless to me. Tho I didn't test a ton in that config because subsonic w/o can is just wasting ammo. Those two are built to be suppressed so I chose Nomad-L for maximum suppression or Wolfman-short for a smaller size.
silencers can fail easily in real life, if its a defensive gun it has to be able to work without it. and yes, some rattlers work fine as theyre supposed to, some dont. point is, its a $4k gun that sig wont fix if it doesnt work and you can make a better, lighter, cheaper gun yourself. the military kept upping the length of the barrel 3 times for the same reasons if you look into it. good that you got lucky though and like yours
I have a DD PDW 300 with a sandman-s that constantly fails to load and go into battery, after further reading apparently a lot of people have this issue with the DD PDW as it gets too dirty too fast. Kinda embarrassing for it to get locked up after under 100 rounds of subs and constant cleaning. I was hoping the rattler was a better option.
could be if you dont mind it not being reliable in case your sandman goes down... ive had silencers fail on me so a gun that wont work without them is useless in my opinion. and you shouldnt have to carry two different sets of ammo to account for a $2700 gun's poor design.
@@maximusjoseppi5904 But the Rattler has an adjustable gas block, if I lose a suppressor I can just change the gas setting. This whole "Sub vs super" debate is why I prefer not dealing with it at all and just to stick with a 5.56 or a 9mm subgun
@@thiccnick277 no, you cant. you would think thats the case, but its not because the gun is designed like shit. that is the point of this video. many rattlers, like mine, will not run subs unsuppressed regardless of the gas setting. 300 blackout is significantly better than 556 and astronomically better than 9mm... you just have to buy/build a properly designed gun
@@maximusjoseppi5904 Eh, sub 300 blk and 9mm ballistics are closer than you'd think, and 9mm is significantly cheaper to shoot. I'd argue that 300 blk isn't better than 5.56 in any way but suppression. It's a decent alternative, but 300 blk is a niche round and a compromise in every way. Still cool to shoot suppressed, though.
Ya, so does MAC's but some like mine, dont. Not everyone is lucky enough to get one that works though.. The problem is that SIG wont support their product if it wont and tries to trick ignorant people by putting a disclaimer in their manual trying to cover their ass for making an inconsistent unreliable product. If your rattler works with the OSS, it likely will work without it as well. You were one of the lucky ones, not all of us are.
Good Vid. I have a 300blk I built way back when (stamped) with the maxim pdw. It will always have a special place in my arsenal. I also have a HB and Rattler which I love as well.
Firstly, shooting subs without a can is a bit useless. Secondly, flow through cans kind of suck at suppressing subsonic ammo. A high flow restriction can would ensure reliable function, and make your gun quieter with subs and supers. The Rattler was part of a military solicitation, so naturally it does not function in a way it was never designed to function.
firstly, silencers are not permanent parts of your gun. they are aftermarket attachments that can readily fail and go down so the gun needs to be able to work without it. same concept as having backup sights on a gun with an optic. secondly, thats just wrong haha. its also irrelevant because the point of a flow through can is to not only suppress noise and reduces flash (another main reason to use subs), but to reduce blowback so you dont get gassed out. lastly, the rattler was part of military solicitation and due to its unreliability and lack of performance, the military has continually increased the length of the barrel two times now haha. 5.5 to 6.75 and now its being purchased with 7.75" barrels.
sold it a while ago due to the crap design and customer service being unwilling to trouble shoot their product. i made multiple videos on it and a lot of other people have the same problem as well as sig themselves saying it prob wont work in their owners manual. so ya, me "demoing" it is irrelevant haha.
No he can't because they're nonexistent. He's got a CZcams channel but magically wasn't able to upload a single example of this gun he supposedly had so many problems with lol.
@@smnkm4ehferyea, everything he said was utter bullshit. He either works for DD or just hates sig for some reason. Literally everything he said was completely ignorant. New gun owners should be making CZcams channels making absolute statements about things they quite obviously don't know much about.
Not sure where you got your info from. But, I've owned a Rattler for a couple years now. Also own the Black Mamba aka, LVAW/Tacops w/ the 6.75in barrel. I have to say that I have never had an issue with either one of them firing suppressed or un suppressed. I had read where someone claimed their 6.75in would not fire properly without the suppressor. So, took both wpns outside and fired subs through both without suppressors. Both fired like a dream. I mainly only use S&B's 200gn FMJ. But, have also used Sig, Magtech, Hornady, and Federal. All factory ammo. No reloads. Never had a misfire/malfunction from either with close to 1000 rds. Now they do cost a lot. But, what is your life worth....
i got my info from shooting them and the owners manual and sig sauer customer support themselves when they refused to fix my gun that didnt work properly because to them, its not supposed to work properly. some work, some dont. the problem is that sig wont support the products that dont work and they hide behind a scummy clause in the manual trying to pass off the fact they make an inconsistent and unreliable product. its awesome that you got lucky with one that works, but thats an outrageous gamble to take for $2700 and there's no excuse for it.
@@joecrutcher9996 number one, you can't propose to buy a gun on CZcams. Number two, I already sold that terrible gun for a profit to a different person that doesn't know any better haha
@@maximusjoseppi5904 Well, I guess that is strike #1. Sorry!!!! When I start typing to someone I forget where I'm typing at sometimes. Glad you made a profit. Good thing about our country and our rights which we have fought for: We can all like what we like and not like what we don't like. But, let us all remember that and not try to impose upon others as the anti gunners do. Best of luck with your site....
@@mike30680 rofl. the gun runs as is intended by the manufacturer...... thats the point of the video bro. so youre calling sig scummy and i would agree. thanks for catching on
Nice build. How long is that barrel? 8.5”? The CMMG dissent has a 16 position adjustable gas block. That should enough to shoot from unsuppressed subsonic all the way so suppressed supersonic. Edit: No offense, but your PDW looks over gassed: the ejection pattern looks like it’s around 5 o’ clock
i dont mind where the brass goes as long as its going in all conditions. i believe its an 8.3" barrel, ballistic advantage hanson barrel. the dissent looks interesting, but ATF ruined these small guns now so until that blows over, im not buying any more haha.
I'll take my Spear LT, in 300 blackout, over any other 300 blackout! Most DI 300 blackout guns are too picky and need buffer changes when shooting various ammo types in different grain weights. My Spear LT. runs reliably and eats every ammo type I've used all while being accurate. I know manufactures have their own issues but overall AR style 300 blackout guns are less reliable than piston guns with adjustable gas systems. This being said you can put in the effort and get a DI gun to be pretty good in 300 blackout.
the spear lt is an outrageously over priced, over weight, poorly designed gimmick sig released... you can build a far better gun thats more reliable, with better features, weighs 2lbs less, and costs half the money.
That’s a good looking build you have there. I don’t plan on taking mine off it’s for home defense and for the range. and if there is another firearm that I would like to have suppressor on it. I’ll buy one just for it. thank you for the info
you dont need to plan on taking a silencer off, you may have to regardless of choice. if you drop your gun in dirt or mud, that can easily make your silencer unserviceable and thus, your gun as well if it was designed poorly enough to require it to function. ive also had 2 silencers fail due to manufacturer defects while shooting at a range. silencers are accessories and should never be required for the function of your firearm.
@@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 why would I carry both types of ammo? So now I need double the ammunition cause the gun sucks? And I go outside with my guns, like normal people who use guns do. I get you must be new to firearms but nothing you're saying makes any sense if you follow the logic haha. Your gun is an emergency life saving tool. It needs to work in all conditions, that's why there's reliability testing and requirements for firearms in adverse conditions. That's why rifles with adjustable gas systems have an adverse setting. My gun works in all conditions, with all ammo, and I never have to worry about taking extra precautions because my gun lacks the proper capabilities. Yours should too if it's an emergency life saving tool.
Hey, as a owner of a rattler I thank you for letting me know about the back pressure issue with subsonic. I still don't think the rattler is trash for the fact of the internal carrier group so keeping a suppressor on it is easier. Dead foot arms does a conversion i wanted for my 10.5 but its very expensive for my liking. Also in the times you would need it for self defense you have to think about a lot of factors, one being the attacker most likely wont have a suppressor like you, and the one case of shooting without ear pro or a suppressor probably won't do permanent damage. As far as over penetration not sure about how sound the idea is but supers run fine with the subsonic setting in rattler which could reduce velocities.
The issues to take into consideration with supers are the noise and flash decreasing awareness and over penetration. (Even with a silencer) Of course they are more effective on target but if you miss the target or they go clean through and through another wall... Just depends on your living situation. Both are valid and commonly used for home defense by very knowledgeable people.
For sure man. Still some valid criticism. People mad about the title, but even as proud owner I see why in that regard it would be trash. If you are constantly transferring cans and only run subsonic it is not going to be good when you don't have it on.
There is no back pressure issue. None whatsoever. This guy just either doesn't know anything about this stuff, hates sig for some reason, or works for DD
@@IDK_what_TO_call_IT_ my rattler doesn't cycle subs. In fact, it stopped loading supers into battery today. That's 2 out of 3 very bad range days for this expensive gun. Not happy with function yet but damn is the form sexy. Just need it to work!
My rattler canebrake has cycled subs on minus mode without my suppressor and even handguard on so I guess some can b different 😂 but my 8" 300 blk ar sbr with a maxim power stock will also cycle subs with a standard carbine buffer but the 6" barrel ar I had would not even run with the suppressor, way to undergassed. The rattler can b extremely overgassed
ya, some work, some dont. thats just a ridiculous gamble to have to take in a $2700 gun with an adjustable gas block that they wont fix if it doesnt work like mine
I've got a buddy with a rattler and his won't cycle 200gr subsonic rounds reliably without a can. Seems like Sig is all over the place with their QC. That being said, I do still think the rattler is a pretty sweet gun and wanted one for the longest time, I just don't trust Sig's QC anymore. Very innovative company, but I read from some folks that they allow out of spec parts on their civilian sold guns. I do see your point in having your PDW perform reliably regardless of how it's setup.. I don't mind having my gun tuned to run suppressed only full time. My custom built 300blk 7.5" will have an AGB, LMT Enhanced BCG and a JP Capture spring with an Omega 300 suppressor(high back pressure). I'm trying to set that thing up to run strictly for suppressed only but it isn't my "PDW", backpack gun or SHTF gun. I could argue that having a 16" 5.56 unsuppressed rifle would be better for a SHTF scenario because .223/5.56 is plentiful and easily available compared to 300blk but that another rabbit hole to go down. Having a gun run reliably with minimal gas suppressed and unsuppressed seems like it takes a lot of research and development. Take AR15s, companies that hog out their gas ports have complaints that their guns are too violent or recoil too harshly. Sizing down the gas port in order to give you a soft shooting gun, you then have people complaining they can't run their weak shit ammo or steel case through it reliably.
@@smith8124 I believe that's the only way to have minimal gas coming back at your face while shooting suppressed. You need to size the gas port down enough to where it will cycle subsonic suppressed and give the user minimal gas blowback. Like you mentioned, this expense will come at the cost of not being able to shoot subsonic ammo unsuppressed. I would actually prefer that compromise because I hate breathing in all those fumes. It's been awhile since i've watched this guy's video but if I can recall he's using an OSS can with very minimal back pressure. The rattler was probably made in mind to use with a more traditional, restrictive baffle design. I'm not sure if the barrel length has something to do with it because my Virtus will cycle subsonic unsuppressed just fine. I kinda wish it didn't if I have to be honest because I want less gas blowback. Even with my gas adjustment sent to "-" i'm still getting a ton of gas back at my face.
After just having dealt with Sig AGAIN on my rattler, I can't agree with this more. I'm tempted to sell off all of my Sig firearms so I won't have to deal with them ever again. Bought my rattler in March, took it to the range 4 times, had 2 identical major failures. Had to send it in both times, they still have it. Had to fight with them to warranty this thing. ***MUST USE SAAMI SPEC'd AMMO*** where the hell do you find SAAMI spec'd ammo you ask? Sig suggests calling the ammo manufacturer and asking them. No boxes at the store are marked SAAMI, no website selling ammo notes it on the ammo specs, no manufacturer claims it on their own website!!!
How does the weapon cycle supers un-suppressed? I’d imagine if you can cycle subs without a can that your gun is insanely over gassed and supers suck to shoot. I guess it’s reliable and will always work in whatever made up scenarios people can think of. Most 300 blk have issues cycling subs un-suppressed. I get your point in the video and you’re not wrong but this video wreaks of “complaining just to complain”
its really not a give and take like that at all... supers are perfectly normal to shoot. a no, most 300bo guns dont have an issue shooting subs without a silencer. in fact, ive never built a gun that did with barrels ranging from 8.5-10-14.5-16. only shitty 300bo guns cant run reliably in all conditions. if dropping your gun in mud or sand is a "made up scenario" then you dont need a reliable gun, use whatever.
You opened up the gas port a lot to get it to run subs or trimmed the buffer spring that’s why your using the oss. If you use a traditional can it would over gas the gun a lot especially supers. Dumb.
i didnt open up the gas port at all bro. this is a bone stock ballistic advantage barrel with all standard off the shelf parts. i spent 0 time tuning this gun. copium is real haha. And i bought an OSS can for the same reason the military wants one like it... it works on every gun without tuning and you don't get gas in your face. SCARs, M1As, AKs, AUG, most ARs all run weird with traditional cans unless you tune it. OSS fixes all that.
The company themselves tells you it will not run subs without increased back pressure. That's why they deliver it with the hate brake that increases back pressure. Putting a silencer on it also voids your warranty so careful where you say that in public haha. MAC also has a video of it not working with subs talking about this.
@@maximusjoseppi5904 Luckily have never had to use a manufacturer warranty for any of my firearms, so wasn't worried about it. I use a dead air flash hider and still don't have a cycling issue. Guess I'm just lucky lol
@@gwiltz1123 that's awesome man. I basically made my gun to model after it I liked it so much. I've had to use my warranty a bunch of times with my PDX, MDR, p320, rattler, m&p, $6000 2011 🤣 I get lucky in the opposite direction
@@maximusjoseppi5904 that’s crazy. I have a buddy who has the same luck as you it seems. I make sure to never get gen 1 of anything. It’s all mass produced, so there’s bound to be shitty batches in every production. You just hope you never end up with that batch.
ya, some work, some dont. the problem is that sig doesnt support the guns that dont work like mine and many others. then they hide behind a scum bag clause in their owner's manual openly admitting they have an unreliable and inconsistently manufactured product but they wont fix it if it doesnt work. thats a $2700 gamble if you buy a rattler which is unacceptable.
@@maximusjoseppi5904 so why are you still talking about it then? if you already made a video about it sucking and sold it. it's long gone but you're still talking about it... why?
@@gemo9561 to teach people about PDWs. sounds like you should actually watch the video might learn something. And you cant buy guns on youtube so you should never ask to buy someone's gun there haha.
Who shoots subs without a can???? It's gassed perfectly to not be overgassed with a baffle can. I have 3 baffle cans and an oss. Use the oss on ar's. Use the baffle on the rattler. It's perfect. The old rattler were wildly overgassed,, the new ones are tuned but won't run subs alone, but who would anyway???? Just Use supers without can. I love my rattler. And my ars. And my cans
people who shoot their guns and have their can go down... thats who. why do people have backup irons on their guns? why do soldiers carry a handgun? any more stupid questions because youre trying to justify a $2700 gun's poor design? you love your guns and silencers but you dont understand them. your silencer can fail at any time even more easily than the gun its on. when that happens, you need to take it off, now your $2700 piece of shit is useless. ive had 2 silencers fail.
@@smith8124 yes, that's why they were warranty defects the manufacturer fixed. One was an internal weld that failed allowing the internal baffle system to float freely inside the silencer and one was faulty threading that misaligned the silencer. Yes, there are people much better than you. No, you don't know everything. And yes, you did waste $3k on a shitty gun. Don't put your own insecurities on me kiddo 😉 Lastly, if you drop your gun in dirt or mud and debris gets in the silencer, your silencer is also down 🤣 you're so dumb you can't even think past the flat range haha.
Your videos would be much better if you were not so defensive in the comments. Attacking and discounting what people are telling you and arguing that they do not have a clue about what they have experienced. You have some good points for how you want your PDW to work but attacking anyone else who disagrees with how they want their gun set up doesn't make sense. You could do better. 1. Taking your PDW hunting? OK to each their own. Using a low performance sub round hunting makes no ethical sense. 2. If a rock gets in your suppressor and you have a baffle strike, then you have to take your suppressor off to know where it is hitting and with subs it won't work. Tough arguing a most unlikely scenario 3. If you don't want to shoot un-suppressed subs then is the Rattler or PDX good for you?
I only attack back. If people are reasonable, I'm reasonable with them. The only dude I attacked was the one that started with "this is idiotic" and then verbally vomited made up fallacies. Tons of people hunt hogs, coyotes, and deer with subsonic rounds out of AR pistols. Can look at hunting ammo reviews or videos etc. Planning for unlikely scenarios when discussing a personal defense rifle is par for the course, right? Haha. Defensive weapon use in general is the most unlikely scenario and adverse condition performance is the most popular test for a defensive weapon. Look at mud tests of weapons. And I think the rattler and PDX are good if you get one that works with subs unsuppressed, as some do. But for the manufacturer not to support it, especially with an adjustable gas system, is unacceptable as far as my reliability standards are concerned. (And most others when they aren't being fanboys)
@@maximusjoseppi5904 Although I agree with the sensibility of a highly functioning weapon in all scenarios and criticism of any that do not meet your needs. I would say that, IMO, I cannot find any scenario for a PDW where a mud test, frozen in a block test, submerged under water test have any relevance to any real scenario that anyone would face. As far as hunting is concerned, I also disagree with using a bullet with the capability of a .45 ACP ball for hunting. When the exact same gun is capable of shooting 100-125gr. supersonics that have enough energy and optimal bullet performance to ethically kill something.
@@gunguru7020 a pdw will face the same potentials for adverse conditions of any other firearm. My pdw is my go to defensive weapon for any scenario aside from grabbing my scar 17s. It's as reasonable you would face adverse conditions with a pdw as any concealed carry weapon which all go through adverse condition testing. If you only keep your pdw in your truck and you live in a city, maybe adverse conditions are irrelevant to you but for many people, they live around dirt and mud etc. I know I've personally dropped my gun in dirt before, a couple times haha.
Actually, the underwood subsonic defensive ammo I use has tons of good reviews and they're all hunters expressing how well they worked on deer and hogs haha. I forgot that's how I found it. If it works well on deer, it's good for other 180lb things
i will never understand why people care about using subsonic rounds unsuppressed. subs are nothing but a giggle factor and have terrible ballistic performance so why in the hell would you want to use subs for self defense? lmao
You have a very cool gun and it is obviously very capable of doing what you intend it to do, but I tend to disagree with your choices from a performance maximization perspective. I see little use for subsonic ammo in any serious application for a civilian. You give up too much switching from supers to subs, and you gain too little. The capability is cool, but unless you envision yourself going full operator in the boog and securing some canned food in an elite clandestine operation, subs are a range toy. Ok, maybe hunting. But every-day defensive civilian scenarios are a hard pass on the subsonic ammo. Let's be honest, the most likely use-case for a 300blk PDW for a civilian in a serious situation is in the home, despite all the talk of bag guns these days. So is it worth it to give up so much by using subsonic ammo, in exchange for... less noise? Sure, your ears might be slightly better off in the event of a violent home invasion, but are you giving up so much in terms of rifle handling characteristics and terminal performance that it could cost you a lot more than a bit of tinnitus? Especially with a flow-through suppressor, at that point you are eliminating almost all of the benefit of subsonic ammo. Flow-through cans are loud as fuck and don't work well at all on subsonic flow regimes, I would never use one on anything but 5.56x45, 7.62x51, 6.5x48 ect. Plus, if you are building a gun, the beauty of 300blk is that you can use a K baffle can and tune your system to run supers and subs with minimal gas to the face, with minor modifications, with subs and supers. Knocking off 10db by switching to subs and using a flow-through can is not even close to worth it, in my opinion, when it comes at the cost of increased weight, increased length, increased cost, increased overpenetration, and decreased terminal performance by 75%-90%. I am aware of the expensive CNC milled projectiles that open like a broadhead at subsonic velocities, and I can assure you that they still hit like a handgun, which means they are anemic compared to supersonic ammo which will hit almost as hard as an AKM. You are already losing a lot of terminal effectiveness by going with a PDW in 300blk over a 16" 5.56, but you gain a compact form factor and lighter gun, but then why further enhance the drawbacks and eliminate almost all of the ballistic advantage of 300blk by choosing subs for defense? At that point, a 9mm PCC is a more practical choice, if you are voluntarily ditching rifle ballistics for pistol ballistics. I think an argument can be made for using a flow-through can on a 300blk PDW running supers, but I see none if you use subs for defense as a civilian, its all comropmise, no gain, and you can even hear how loud it is in the video with subs. My PDW runs subs and supers, suppressed and unsuppressed, and the gas is only annoying when shooting suppressed supers indoors while mag dumping. Mine is set up to stow away in a compact form, and I have a huge K baffle can that ratchets on in about two revolutions. I view it as a PDW for indoor use, such as defending my house, with supers in the mag and my can in the safe. In this configuration, it will ring my ears indoors, but is tolerable if I needed to use it in an emergency (I don't use a brake) and I trust it to stop any violence occurring in my home quickly in far fewer shots than a handgun or PCC. But at the range, when I want to play around, in a few quick seconds, can goes on and the subs go in, now I've got an American AS Val to play with, and it is insanely quiet, almost suppressed .22lr quiet, which means it is insanely fun. If I needed that capability on the go, the can and a few mags of subs can fit in the bag too. But if I ever, God forbid, found a reason to pull this thing out off the range, I'm more than likely doing so in a situation where the added length, reduced terminal performance, and reduced noise of using subs+suppressor provides little to no tactical advantage with a lot of drawbacks.
Why supers are bad for civilians: noise, awareness, high flash signature, higher recoil, and over penetration. Why they're good: terminal performance. Why subs are bad for civilians: less terminal performance. Why they are good: severe increase in situational awareness, noise, less recoil, less flash, less penetration through obstacles. Some of the best instuctors in the country who are ex socom recommend and use 300bo for self defense in civilian scenarios. The benefits of supers are irrelevant to civilians in most scenarios. You don't need to shoot at range, you can't afford the over penetration, PDWs make it so easy to shoot fast and accurate making terminal performance irrelevant. If you live alone with no animals someplace where over penetration isn't an issue and you don't mind the awareness loss, sure, supers are great. A lot of people have family, pets, and neighbors they need to worry about and communicate with and that's where subs have a drastic advantage. (Yes, this is all assuming you're using a silencer) You can carry what you want but supers are not definitively better and I know more trained individuals who choose subsonic ammo over supersonic ammo for civilian defense.
@@maximusjoseppi5904 You aren't wrong about the pro's and cons. But I suppose we disagree on how important each of those are. I see gel tests of supers and it is like a bomb going off, and it's hard to tell subs in gel from a 9mm hit in most cases. There are some gnarly projectiles that do cool things at subsonic speed, but for the most part, I look at a sub gel test and I think "That would leave a nice blood trail but I don't see that knocking down some naked guy with a knife high on PCP right away." Then I see supers in gel and think "damn, a center mass hit is going to shock anyone's CNS pretty hard." The difference is huge. As for flash, I'm not planning on any protracted firefights at a distance where firing continuously from a concealed position is an advantage. I'd care about flash a lot more on a full-length duty rifle, something I would grab in a "without rule of law" scenario where I needed to defend my neighborhood from multiple armed attackers or something. But for home defense, flash from a .300blk pistol is minimal and I don't need to fire continuously and remain concealed after the fact. Recoil feels about the same to me with subs or supers (internal pressure is similar with both). In fact, I would say 220s take longer to get back on target than 110s. Overpenetration is something lots of people worry about, but I don't because you have to go to .22lr ballistics before not punching through drywall becomes a possibility anyways. The reality is that no matter the cartridge, you have to consider your backstop because you will go through a wall, so as long as you aren't firing green tip .308 I don't see much of a difference. Plus, I would be very surprised if supers (fragmenting/expanding) overpenetrate that much more than subs, generally slow heavy bullets with a high BC overpenetrate a lot in tissue while lighter faster bullets dump all their energy quicker. The noise is the last concern. Great thing about .300blk is that even supers aren't *that* loud even out of shorter barrels. Not compared to 5.56. My 18" .308 is way louder. But regardless, while shooting without earpro (and/or a can) can deafen you temporarily, it doesn't incapacitate you (speaking from experience, had a loose plug and lost hearing in left ear after firing several mags at an indoor range, didn't notice til I stepped off the range). But you are right, this is bad for awareness. However, a can will take the edge off enough, even with supers, to keep your hearing and not ring your ears that badly. Your OSS would be great combined with supers. You would likely do some amount of hearing damage due to supersonic crack but not lose your hearing during a fight or ring your ears that hard. I guess I just don't see those downsides as that big, when you consider supers get you rifle terminals and subs get you pistol terminals. The hydrostatic shock of a rifle-velocity projectile has been proven to stop even the most coked-up bad guy very quickly in very few shots, while doctrine with handgun calibers is to fill them with lead for a reason.
that's awesome, you were lucky. some do, some don't. I wasn't as lucky with mine and the problem is that when they don't work, sig will not support the defective product and fix it.
I would love to build out a very similar gun to yours instead of purchasing a rattler. Can you make a build video or at the very least put up a build list brother? Thanks in advance!
This my be a dumb question, but why would you want to shoot subsonic ammo without a suppressor? It seems for a self defense weapon, you would want to pack supersonic ammo. And a suppressor to supers to save your ears, and still save your ears.
watch the video... I explain why for 10 minutes. supersonic rounds, even with a suppressor, are extremely loud and often not hearing safe for even 1 round. never mind hearing safe, the concussion is immense in a room or hallway and the amount of situational awareness you gain from using subsonic rounds is substantial. next add in the significant complication of over penetration when using full power 110-120 grain supersonic 300 blackout rounds and you end up with many people, including some of the best instructors in the country opting for subsonic 300 for home defense. the question you should be asking is, can your self defense weapon work in all conditions and if it cant, why would you choose it when there are weapons that will?
I have a Sig MCX Rattler - I don’t experience any of this nonsense - over 1000 rounds - suppressed and unsuppressed - I had a couple of failure to eject issues inside of the first 50 rounds - easily cured with the adjustable gas block - so not sure what you’re talking about
i can't imagine why its hard for you to understand..... but we got different rifles. they didnt give me the rifle you are using, they gave me a different one when i bought it. mine didnt work, yours does... which is cool and all except for the fact that sig wont fix their product when it doesnt work and then they put in their owners manual (the same one you have as well this time) that it probably wont work unsuppressed. so what exactly are you having a hard time understanding there max
some people are lucky and it works like it should, some arent. problem is, sig wont fix it if they dont work like mine when it didnt. unacceptable gamble for a $2700 rifle.
I don't own any 300 blk guns so I dint really have a dog in this fight. I say that so this can be seen as objective as possible. I haven't watched your other video on this particular build so I'm not sure but it looks like at least a 7 or 7.5 inch barrel which is naturally gonna be way less finicky than a 5.5 or 6 inch barrel. I'm not saying this comparison is full on apples to oranges but this isn't really a fair comparison.
it does have a longer barrel because it needs to work properly and i preferred a non adjustable gas system that i didnt need to tune. if a 5.5-6" barreled gun cannot be made to function properly in all conditions, its not an adequate self defense weapon. its a fair comparison because they are both PDWs intended for the same purpose in the same systems. the 2.5" difference in barrels is irrelevant to the category of the firearm and role it will fill. that being said, theres zero excuse for a 5.5" barreled gun with an adjustable gas block to not work.. some rattlers do work, some dont. the problem is that sig doesnt support their product when it doesnt cause they're lazy.
no it doesnt... rofl. ive spoken to the engineers personally at maxim defense, the gun isnt intended to work without back pressure, thats why they ship with a back pressure muzzle device.
probably should now that the ATF is getting over zealous. otherwise, this is the same thing and equally functional in all areas. no reason for the extra restrictions of an NFA item unless i need to.
There really isn't an ideal 300blk PDW out there today. Ideal would be a roughly AR15 pattern rifle, DI gas system, 7-9" barrel, 1:5 (for terminal performance) or 1:6 twist (for accuracy), forward assist (in some form, even just the detent in the BCG), AR pattern barrel/handguard/lower compatible, but with a recoil spring/buffer housed in the upper receiver and a non-reciprocating side charging handle instead of the rear T-handle. The new CMMG comes really really close to being ideal, but the twist is a bit slow for that short of a barrel, they could offer longer barrels (6.75" is a bit short, I like 7 and up for serious use to maintain the longer range advantage of 300blk over a PCC) since the bufferless system lets it pack up so nicely, it has absolutely no forward assist capability (even the detent on the BCG is gone), and subjectively, CMMG's new furniture is really ugly. The DDM4 PDW is also nice, very well built, but slightly heavy for its size and has a slow twist. It is very well tuned considering the non-adjustable gas block and will run everything without fooling with it, but the rear T charging handle of the AR15 has always been the source of gas up the nose. Piston guns are finnicky and not ideal for suppression with K baffle cans (which is how you ideally want to suppress 300blk subs), the Honey Bader is way overpriced for what it is, Maxum PDX apparently has gassing issues, ect. ect. None of them are quite perfect, but CMMG is on the right path.
Don't tell anyone... But there's no functional difference between a brace and a stock haha. Just lots of unnecessary restrictions and taxes if you use the stock end
@@snunez1911 oh, so you're just all around clueless.. should prob watch the video before you comment kiddo 🤣 looks like you have so much to learn about firearms
I was writing a comment about how stupid ur video was. I erased it. I still love sig products and think ur wrong , but still great video and very nice build there
You loose all credibility and make yourself look less intelligent everytime you say "silencer" in the video and in the comments. IMO you are paid by DD. This video is utter bullshit.
hahaha. you do know.... the guy who invented the silencer..... called it a silencer..... right? speaking of unintelligent. his name was hiram maxim and the original patent is "silencer." stupidity on the internet....
I had a issue cycling subs out of the rattler early on . The issue early on was with the lancer .223 mag that came with it. When I picked up some additional mags I grabbed the ones that had 300 stamped on them so I could identify them easier. Then I realized pretty quickly that the dedicated 300 BLK lancer mag with 300 stamped come with a heavier springs designed specifically for heavier sub ammo. Cured the issue for me.
No issues with mine. Thank you for showing other options.
ya, some work, some dont. glad you got a decent one.
Why would you want to run subsonic ammo without a suppressor?
Sometimes that might be all you have at the moment.
You wouldn't. I wouldn't even put a suppressor on it. I want allll the power.
In the meantime precision 22 world most prefer subsonic for long range
I have a Sig Rattler and a Daniel Defense PDW 300 BO. I use a Silencerco Omega 300 on both and have never had a issue with subsonic ammo. Locks back etc. I don't plan on taking my suppressor in the mud lol. I think the military will figure that portion out.
i mean, no one plans on guns encountering poor conditions but you want them to be able to because unexpected things happens. its more likely you drop your gun in the mud than you need to shoot someone with it haha. its great that yours works as it should though! not all of us are that lucky and for sig to not support their $2700 product, its just an unacceptable gamble.
@@maximusjoseppi5904 Gotcha! 👍
I was thinking about using my omega on a rattler if I got one but silencerco only rates them down to 7 inches for 300 blackout I believe. Id be worried about voiding the warranty if something were to happen.
@@TandCEveryDay I use mine all the time. I had the same worry as well. I called Silencerco customer service to verify. They said it was fine at that length with subsonic ammunition. Never had a issue and they said to me, warranty won't be voided.
@@KeanonGilliamSlang369 That's great to hear. Thank you for the response!
This guy is so caught up on making subs work in a shorty self defense gun he doesn’t ask if he should use subs in a self defense gun. Most subs are non-expand or are fragmenting gimmicks which are dubious in their effectiveness. Unless your are a Delta-Ranger-Team-66 operator who can hit the bullseye every time inverted behind your back, stick to suppers for life and death situations.
would you like me to point you to subsonic rounds that are perfect for self dense and hunting and wont endanger your hearing or over penetrate half as much as a supersonic 300bo round? it doesnt take an "operator" to be extremely accurate and effective with a PDW, that is why they are so popular. try shooting a group with a shouldered PDW with a red dot then try to shoot a group with your pistol... you will think you are a super operator haha. not only is it very easy to be accurate with a PDW, you can be accurate with a high volume of fire as well.
supers on the other hand.... now you need to worry about your hearing, awareness, and how many walls are between your threat and your kids, dogs, neighbors, etc etc. especially in a 125gr 300bo self defense round with a ton of power and momentum. so yes, subsonic rounds are a fantastic choice for self defense in civilian self defense based situations. and why would i bother having multiple completely different caliber setups when I can just run 1 for everything with a properly functioning gun.
i might as well add... i do know and have trained with Delta-Range-Team-66 operators and firearms enthusiasts that recommend and personally choose subsonic rounds for all these reasons as well.
@@maximusjoseppi5904 I do think you have to see which ammo works best with whatever platform you're using.
So…. A 45 acp is bad for self defense?
I load 240 grain lead booolits at 1000 fps that are more deadly than 45 acp ball ammo. And quiet.
@@Heywoodthepeckerwood did u really just spell bullets like that?
Yes, but why would you ever run subs without a suppressor?
Don’t question the man, he clearly knows everything.
Because he doesn't have a brain
Interestingly in my experience, the DDM4 PDW and Sig Rattler both ran subsonic unsuppressed just fine(yes, out of the box. Silver spring for DDM4).
Rattler only had a bit of a problem running very low-powered 220gr unsuppressed on -, but fine on +. DDM4 even came with a reduced power red spring meant to cycle subs unsuppressed, pointless to me. Tho I didn't test a ton in that config because subsonic w/o can is just wasting ammo.
Those two are built to be suppressed so I chose Nomad-L for maximum suppression or Wolfman-short for a smaller size.
silencers can fail easily in real life, if its a defensive gun it has to be able to work without it. and yes, some rattlers work fine as theyre supposed to, some dont. point is, its a $4k gun that sig wont fix if it doesnt work and you can make a better, lighter, cheaper gun yourself. the military kept upping the length of the barrel 3 times for the same reasons if you look into it. good that you got lucky though and like yours
I have a DD PDW 300 with a sandman-s that constantly fails to load and go into battery, after further reading apparently a lot of people have this issue with the DD PDW as it gets too dirty too fast. Kinda embarrassing for it to get locked up after under 100 rounds of subs and constant cleaning. I was hoping the rattler was a better option.
could be if you dont mind it not being reliable in case your sandman goes down... ive had silencers fail on me so a gun that wont work without them is useless in my opinion. and you shouldnt have to carry two different sets of ammo to account for a $2700 gun's poor design.
@@maximusjoseppi5904 But the Rattler has an adjustable gas block, if I lose a suppressor I can just change the gas setting. This whole "Sub vs super" debate is why I prefer not dealing with it at all and just to stick with a 5.56 or a 9mm subgun
@@thiccnick277 no, you cant. you would think thats the case, but its not because the gun is designed like shit. that is the point of this video. many rattlers, like mine, will not run subs unsuppressed regardless of the gas setting.
300 blackout is significantly better than 556 and astronomically better than 9mm... you just have to buy/build a properly designed gun
@@maximusjoseppi5904 Eh, sub 300 blk and 9mm ballistics are closer than you'd think, and 9mm is significantly cheaper to shoot. I'd argue that 300 blk isn't better than 5.56 in any way but suppression. It's a decent alternative, but 300 blk is a niche round and a compromise in every way. Still cool to shoot suppressed, though.
My rattler shot subs with my oss can 💯 but I never shot it without the can.
Ya, so does MAC's but some like mine, dont. Not everyone is lucky enough to get one that works though.. The problem is that SIG wont support their product if it wont and tries to trick ignorant people by putting a disclaimer in their manual trying to cover their ass for making an inconsistent unreliable product. If your rattler works with the OSS, it likely will work without it as well. You were one of the lucky ones, not all of us are.
Good Vid. I have a 300blk I built way back when (stamped) with the maxim pdw. It will always have a special place in my arsenal. I also have a HB and Rattler which I love as well.
Firstly, shooting subs without a can is a bit useless.
Secondly, flow through cans kind of suck at suppressing subsonic ammo.
A high flow restriction can would ensure reliable function, and make your gun quieter with subs and supers.
The Rattler was part of a military solicitation, so naturally it does not function in a way it was never designed to function.
firstly, silencers are not permanent parts of your gun. they are aftermarket attachments that can readily fail and go down so the gun needs to be able to work without it. same concept as having backup sights on a gun with an optic.
secondly, thats just wrong haha. its also irrelevant because the point of a flow through can is to not only suppress noise and reduces flash (another main reason to use subs), but to reduce blowback so you dont get gassed out.
lastly, the rattler was part of military solicitation and due to its unreliability and lack of performance, the military has continually increased the length of the barrel two times now haha. 5.5 to 6.75 and now its being purchased with 7.75" barrels.
Can you demo the “failures” you are experiencing with Rattler and subs?
sold it a while ago due to the crap design and customer service being unwilling to trouble shoot their product. i made multiple videos on it and a lot of other people have the same problem as well as sig themselves saying it prob wont work in their owners manual. so ya, me "demoing" it is irrelevant haha.
No he can't because they're nonexistent. He's got a CZcams channel but magically wasn't able to upload a single example of this gun he supposedly had so many problems with lol.
@@smnkm4ehferyea, everything he said was utter bullshit. He either works for DD or just hates sig for some reason.
Literally everything he said was completely ignorant.
New gun owners should be making CZcams channels making absolute statements about things they quite obviously don't know much about.
Can you post your build or make a video of the parts and where to get them?
i did make a video on this gun before
Not sure where you got your info from. But, I've owned a Rattler for a couple years now. Also own the Black Mamba aka, LVAW/Tacops w/ the 6.75in barrel. I have to say that I have never had an issue with either one of them firing suppressed or un suppressed. I had read where someone claimed their 6.75in would not fire properly without the suppressor. So, took both wpns outside and fired subs through both without suppressors. Both fired like a dream. I mainly only use S&B's 200gn FMJ. But, have also used Sig, Magtech, Hornady, and Federal. All factory ammo. No reloads. Never had a misfire/malfunction from either with close to 1000 rds. Now they do cost a lot. But, what is your life worth....
i got my info from shooting them and the owners manual and sig sauer customer support themselves when they refused to fix my gun that didnt work properly because to them, its not supposed to work properly.
some work, some dont. the problem is that sig wont support the products that dont work and they hide behind a scummy clause in the manual trying to pass off the fact they make an inconsistent and unreliable product. its awesome that you got lucky with one that works, but thats an outrageous gamble to take for $2700 and there's no excuse for it.
@@maximusjoseppi5904 You want to get rid of it??
@@joecrutcher9996 number one, you can't propose to buy a gun on CZcams.
Number two, I already sold that terrible gun for a profit to a different person that doesn't know any better haha
@@maximusjoseppi5904 Well, I guess that is strike #1. Sorry!!!! When I start typing to someone I forget where I'm typing at sometimes. Glad you made a profit. Good thing about our country and our rights which we have fought for: We can all like what we like and not like what we don't like. But, let us all remember that and not try to impose upon others as the anti gunners do. Best of luck with your site....
@@mike30680 rofl. the gun runs as is intended by the manufacturer...... thats the point of the video bro. so youre calling sig scummy and i would agree. thanks for catching on
Nice build. How long is that barrel? 8.5”?
The CMMG dissent has a 16 position adjustable gas block. That should enough to shoot from unsuppressed subsonic all the way so suppressed supersonic.
Edit: No offense, but your PDW looks over gassed: the ejection pattern looks like it’s around 5 o’ clock
i dont mind where the brass goes as long as its going in all conditions. i believe its an 8.3" barrel, ballistic advantage hanson barrel. the dissent looks interesting, but ATF ruined these small guns now so until that blows over, im not buying any more haha.
@@maximusjoseppi5904 yeah, I agree. There’s no way I’ll spend $2.000-2.500 on a Dissent/MCX/Spear LT if I can’t even put a brace on it.
I'll take my Spear LT, in 300 blackout, over any other 300 blackout! Most DI 300 blackout guns are too picky and need buffer changes when shooting various ammo types in different grain weights. My Spear LT. runs reliably and eats every ammo type I've used all while being accurate. I know manufactures have their own issues but overall AR style 300 blackout guns are less reliable than piston guns with adjustable gas systems. This being said you can put in the effort and get a DI gun to be pretty good in 300 blackout.
the spear lt is an outrageously over priced, over weight, poorly designed gimmick sig released... you can build a far better gun thats more reliable, with better features, weighs 2lbs less, and costs half the money.
Yes sir she is tuned perfectly
That’s a good looking build you have there.
I don’t plan on taking mine off it’s for home defense and for the range. and if there is another firearm that I would like to have suppressor on it. I’ll buy one just for it. thank you for the info
you dont need to plan on taking a silencer off, you may have to regardless of choice. if you drop your gun in dirt or mud, that can easily make your silencer unserviceable and thus, your gun as well if it was designed poorly enough to require it to function. ive also had 2 silencers fail due to manufacturer defects while shooting at a range. silencers are accessories and should never be required for the function of your firearm.
@@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 why would I carry both types of ammo?
So now I need double the ammunition cause the gun sucks?
And I go outside with my guns, like normal people who use guns do.
I get you must be new to firearms but nothing you're saying makes any sense if you follow the logic haha. Your gun is an emergency life saving tool. It needs to work in all conditions, that's why there's reliability testing and requirements for firearms in adverse conditions. That's why rifles with adjustable gas systems have an adverse setting.
My gun works in all conditions, with all ammo, and I never have to worry about taking extra precautions because my gun lacks the proper capabilities. Yours should too if it's an emergency life saving tool.
Hey, as a owner of a rattler I thank you for letting me know about the back pressure issue with subsonic. I still don't think the rattler is trash for the fact of the internal carrier group so keeping a suppressor on it is easier. Dead foot arms does a conversion i wanted for my 10.5 but its very expensive for my liking. Also in the times you would need it for self defense you have to think about a lot of factors, one being the attacker most likely wont have a suppressor like you, and the one case of shooting without ear pro or a suppressor probably won't do permanent damage. As far as over penetration not sure about how sound the idea is but supers run fine with the subsonic setting in rattler which could reduce velocities.
The issues to take into consideration with supers are the noise and flash decreasing awareness and over penetration. (Even with a silencer)
Of course they are more effective on target but if you miss the target or they go clean through and through another wall...
Just depends on your living situation. Both are valid and commonly used for home defense by very knowledgeable people.
For sure man. Still some valid criticism. People mad about the title, but even as proud owner I see why in that regard it would be trash. If you are constantly transferring cans and only run subsonic it is not going to be good when you don't have it on.
There is no back pressure issue. None whatsoever. This guy just either doesn't know anything about this stuff, hates sig for some reason, or works for DD
@@IDK_what_TO_call_IT_ my rattler doesn't cycle subs. In fact, it stopped loading supers into battery today. That's 2 out of 3 very bad range days for this expensive gun. Not happy with function yet but damn is the form sexy. Just need it to work!
Was looking into a rattler… gonna hold off and do some more research. Thanks. That is the coolest looking gun ive ever seen.
some work, some dont. problem is sig wont support their product if it doesnt work. thats a $2700 gamble to take... unacceptable in my opinion.
@@maximusjoseppi5904 what gun is yhis and can you give me a build list? Id like to build this instead of getting a rattler.
@@maximusjoseppi5904what do you mean wont support their product im super curious about this statement? Thx
From what I’ve seen 147gr is where the subsonic range begins on 5.5 inch barrels. 220gr has to be in the 750 fps range out of this length barrel.
There's still time to delete this comment, smoothbrain
My rattler canebrake has cycled subs on minus mode without my suppressor and even handguard on so I guess some can b different 😂 but my 8" 300 blk ar sbr with a maxim power stock will also cycle subs with a standard carbine buffer but the 6" barrel ar I had would not even run with the suppressor, way to undergassed. The rattler can b extremely overgassed
ya, some work, some dont. thats just a ridiculous gamble to have to take in a $2700 gun with an adjustable gas block that they wont fix if it doesnt work like mine
I've got a buddy with a rattler and his won't cycle 200gr subsonic rounds reliably without a can. Seems like Sig is all over the place with their QC. That being said, I do still think the rattler is a pretty sweet gun and wanted one for the longest time, I just don't trust Sig's QC anymore. Very innovative company, but I read from some folks that they allow out of spec parts on their civilian sold guns.
I do see your point in having your PDW perform reliably regardless of how it's setup.. I don't mind having my gun tuned to run suppressed only full time. My custom built 300blk 7.5" will have an AGB, LMT Enhanced BCG and a JP Capture spring with an Omega 300 suppressor(high back pressure). I'm trying to set that thing up to run strictly for suppressed only but it isn't my "PDW", backpack gun or SHTF gun. I could argue that having a 16" 5.56 unsuppressed rifle would be better for a SHTF scenario because .223/5.56 is plentiful and easily available compared to 300blk but that another rabbit hole to go down.
Having a gun run reliably with minimal gas suppressed and unsuppressed seems like it takes a lot of research and development. Take AR15s, companies that hog out their gas ports have complaints that their guns are too violent or recoil too harshly. Sizing down the gas port in order to give you a soft shooting gun, you then have people complaining they can't run their weak shit ammo or steel case through it reliably.
@@smith8124 I believe that's the only way to have minimal gas coming back at your face while shooting suppressed. You need to size the gas port down enough to where it will cycle subsonic suppressed and give the user minimal gas blowback. Like you mentioned, this expense will come at the cost of not being able to shoot subsonic ammo unsuppressed. I would actually prefer that compromise because I hate breathing in all those fumes.
It's been awhile since i've watched this guy's video but if I can recall he's using an OSS can with very minimal back pressure. The rattler was probably made in mind to use with a more traditional, restrictive baffle design. I'm not sure if the barrel length has something to do with it because my Virtus will cycle subsonic unsuppressed just fine. I kinda wish it didn't if I have to be honest because I want less gas blowback. Even with my gas adjustment sent to "-" i'm still getting a ton of gas back at my face.
I have one with an deadair sandman s. I have had zero issues with any ammo, sub or supersonic.
maybe you should read your owner's manual
@@maximusjoseppi5904 who are you speaking to?
Why would you shoot sub sonic ammo with out a suppressor ?
why would you shoot iron sights when you have an optic?
After just having dealt with Sig AGAIN on my rattler, I can't agree with this more. I'm tempted to sell off all of my Sig firearms so I won't have to deal with them ever again. Bought my rattler in March, took it to the range 4 times, had 2 identical major failures. Had to send it in both times, they still have it. Had to fight with them to warranty this thing.
***MUST USE SAAMI SPEC'd AMMO*** where the hell do you find SAAMI spec'd ammo you ask? Sig suggests calling the ammo manufacturer and asking them. No boxes at the store are marked SAAMI, no website selling ammo notes it on the ammo specs, no manufacturer claims it on their own website!!!
How does the weapon cycle supers un-suppressed? I’d imagine if you can cycle subs without a can that your gun is insanely over gassed and supers suck to shoot. I guess it’s reliable and will always work in whatever made up scenarios people can think of. Most 300 blk have issues cycling subs un-suppressed. I get your point in the video and you’re not wrong but this video wreaks of “complaining just to complain”
its really not a give and take like that at all... supers are perfectly normal to shoot. a no, most 300bo guns dont have an issue shooting subs without a silencer. in fact, ive never built a gun that did with barrels ranging from 8.5-10-14.5-16. only shitty 300bo guns cant run reliably in all conditions. if dropping your gun in mud or sand is a "made up scenario" then you dont need a reliable gun, use whatever.
You opened up the gas port a lot to get it to run subs or trimmed the buffer spring that’s why your using the oss. If you use a traditional can it would over gas the gun a lot especially supers. Dumb.
i didnt open up the gas port at all bro. this is a bone stock ballistic advantage barrel with all standard off the shelf parts. i spent 0 time tuning this gun. copium is real haha. And i bought an OSS can for the same reason the military wants one like it... it works on every gun without tuning and you don't get gas in your face. SCARs, M1As, AKs, AUG, most ARs all run weird with traditional cans unless you tune it. OSS fixes all that.
Basically yes, the gas port is just larger letting more pressure on to cycle bolt.
I have a Maxim Defense PDX and I have 0 issues cycling subs or supers with or without a can lol
The company themselves tells you it will not run subs without increased back pressure. That's why they deliver it with the hate brake that increases back pressure.
Putting a silencer on it also voids your warranty so careful where you say that in public haha.
MAC also has a video of it not working with subs talking about this.
@@maximusjoseppi5904 Luckily have never had to use a manufacturer warranty for any of my firearms, so wasn't worried about it. I use a dead air flash hider and still don't have a cycling issue. Guess I'm just lucky lol
@@gwiltz1123 that's awesome man. I basically made my gun to model after it I liked it so much.
I've had to use my warranty a bunch of times with my PDX, MDR, p320, rattler, m&p, $6000 2011 🤣
I get lucky in the opposite direction
@@maximusjoseppi5904 that’s crazy. I have a buddy who has the same luck as you it seems. I make sure to never get gen 1 of anything. It’s all mass produced, so there’s bound to be shitty batches in every production. You just hope you never end up with that batch.
I have a rattler no problems with mine it shoots subs with and without the Q thunderchiken ☺️
ya, some work, some dont. the problem is that sig doesnt support the guns that dont work like mine and many others. then they hide behind a scum bag clause in their owner's manual openly admitting they have an unreliable and inconsistently manufactured product but they wont fix it if it doesnt work. thats a $2700 gamble if you buy a rattler which is unacceptable.
How much do you want for your rattler? Really how much?
Sold it a long time ago.. for a profit 🤣
@@maximusjoseppi5904 so why are you still talking about it then? if you already made a video about it sucking and sold it.
it's long gone but you're still talking about it... why?
@@gemo9561 to teach people about PDWs. sounds like you should actually watch the video might learn something. And you cant buy guns on youtube so you should never ask to buy someone's gun there haha.
Who shoots subs without a can???? It's gassed perfectly to not be overgassed with a baffle can. I have 3 baffle cans and an oss. Use the oss on ar's. Use the baffle on the rattler. It's perfect. The old rattler were wildly overgassed,, the new ones are tuned but won't run subs alone, but who would anyway???? Just Use supers without can. I love my rattler. And my ars. And my cans
people who shoot their guns and have their can go down... thats who. why do people have backup irons on their guns? why do soldiers carry a handgun? any more stupid questions because youre trying to justify a $2700 gun's poor design? you love your guns and silencers but you dont understand them. your silencer can fail at any time even more easily than the gun its on. when that happens, you need to take it off, now your $2700 piece of shit is useless. ive had 2 silencers fail.
@@smith8124 yes, that's why they were warranty defects the manufacturer fixed. One was an internal weld that failed allowing the internal baffle system to float freely inside the silencer and one was faulty threading that misaligned the silencer.
Yes, there are people much better than you. No, you don't know everything. And yes, you did waste $3k on a shitty gun.
Don't put your own insecurities on me kiddo 😉
Lastly, if you drop your gun in dirt or mud and debris gets in the silencer, your silencer is also down 🤣 you're so dumb you can't even think past the flat range haha.
that gun is sexier than my ex
Smh I forgot you had that gun I copied your build I love it with the same suppressor and everything I have a different trigger 👍🏾👍🏾
Oh awesome! It's a great build.. I have yet to build or hold another I like more.
Damn dude. Comments are wrecking you.
there's lots of stupid people in youtube comments, they have to defend their $2700 purchase haha
Your videos would be much better if you were not so defensive in the comments. Attacking and discounting what people are telling you and arguing that they do not have a clue about what they have experienced. You have some good points for how you want your PDW to work but attacking anyone else who disagrees with how they want their gun set up doesn't make sense. You could do better.
1. Taking your PDW hunting? OK to each their own. Using a low performance sub round hunting makes no ethical sense.
2. If a rock gets in your suppressor and you have a baffle strike, then you have to take your suppressor off to know where it is hitting and with subs it won't work. Tough arguing a most unlikely scenario
3. If you don't want to shoot un-suppressed subs then is the Rattler or PDX good for you?
I only attack back. If people are reasonable, I'm reasonable with them. The only dude I attacked was the one that started with "this is idiotic" and then verbally vomited made up fallacies.
Tons of people hunt hogs, coyotes, and deer with subsonic rounds out of AR pistols. Can look at hunting ammo reviews or videos etc.
Planning for unlikely scenarios when discussing a personal defense rifle is par for the course, right? Haha. Defensive weapon use in general is the most unlikely scenario and adverse condition performance is the most popular test for a defensive weapon. Look at mud tests of weapons.
And I think the rattler and PDX are good if you get one that works with subs unsuppressed, as some do. But for the manufacturer not to support it, especially with an adjustable gas system, is unacceptable as far as my reliability standards are concerned. (And most others when they aren't being fanboys)
@@maximusjoseppi5904 Although I agree with the sensibility of a highly functioning weapon in all scenarios and criticism of any that do not meet your needs. I would say that, IMO, I cannot find any scenario for a PDW where a mud test, frozen in a block test, submerged under water test have any relevance to any real scenario that anyone would face.
As far as hunting is concerned, I also disagree with using a bullet with the capability of a .45 ACP ball for hunting. When the exact same gun is capable of shooting 100-125gr. supersonics that have enough energy and optimal bullet performance to ethically kill something.
@@gunguru7020 a pdw will face the same potentials for adverse conditions of any other firearm. My pdw is my go to defensive weapon for any scenario aside from grabbing my scar 17s.
It's as reasonable you would face adverse conditions with a pdw as any concealed carry weapon which all go through adverse condition testing.
If you only keep your pdw in your truck and you live in a city, maybe adverse conditions are irrelevant to you but for many people, they live around dirt and mud etc.
I know I've personally dropped my gun in dirt before, a couple times haha.
Actually, the underwood subsonic defensive ammo I use has tons of good reviews and they're all hunters expressing how well they worked on deer and hogs haha. I forgot that's how I found it. If it works well on deer, it's good for other 180lb things
@@maximusjoseppi5904 they are both tougher than us.
The rattler sucks so bad the socom, special operations command,chose it for our military.
i will never understand why people care about using subsonic rounds unsuppressed. subs are nothing but a giggle factor and have terrible ballistic performance so why in the hell would you want to use subs for self defense? lmao
watch the video instead of typing a comment and it will be clear why
You have a very cool gun and it is obviously very capable of doing what you intend it to do, but I tend to disagree with your choices from a performance maximization perspective. I see little use for subsonic ammo in any serious application for a civilian. You give up too much switching from supers to subs, and you gain too little. The capability is cool, but unless you envision yourself going full operator in the boog and securing some canned food in an elite clandestine operation, subs are a range toy. Ok, maybe hunting. But every-day defensive civilian scenarios are a hard pass on the subsonic ammo. Let's be honest, the most likely use-case for a 300blk PDW for a civilian in a serious situation is in the home, despite all the talk of bag guns these days. So is it worth it to give up so much by using subsonic ammo, in exchange for... less noise? Sure, your ears might be slightly better off in the event of a violent home invasion, but are you giving up so much in terms of rifle handling characteristics and terminal performance that it could cost you a lot more than a bit of tinnitus?
Especially with a flow-through suppressor, at that point you are eliminating almost all of the benefit of subsonic ammo. Flow-through cans are loud as fuck and don't work well at all on subsonic flow regimes, I would never use one on anything but 5.56x45, 7.62x51, 6.5x48 ect. Plus, if you are building a gun, the beauty of 300blk is that you can use a K baffle can and tune your system to run supers and subs with minimal gas to the face, with minor modifications, with subs and supers.
Knocking off 10db by switching to subs and using a flow-through can is not even close to worth it, in my opinion, when it comes at the cost of increased weight, increased length, increased cost, increased overpenetration, and decreased terminal performance by 75%-90%. I am aware of the expensive CNC milled projectiles that open like a broadhead at subsonic velocities, and I can assure you that they still hit like a handgun, which means they are anemic compared to supersonic ammo which will hit almost as hard as an AKM. You are already losing a lot of terminal effectiveness by going with a PDW in 300blk over a 16" 5.56, but you gain a compact form factor and lighter gun, but then why further enhance the drawbacks and eliminate almost all of the ballistic advantage of 300blk by choosing subs for defense? At that point, a 9mm PCC is a more practical choice, if you are voluntarily ditching rifle ballistics for pistol ballistics.
I think an argument can be made for using a flow-through can on a 300blk PDW running supers, but I see none if you use subs for defense as a civilian, its all comropmise, no gain, and you can even hear how loud it is in the video with subs. My PDW runs subs and supers, suppressed and unsuppressed, and the gas is only annoying when shooting suppressed supers indoors while mag dumping. Mine is set up to stow away in a compact form, and I have a huge K baffle can that ratchets on in about two revolutions. I view it as a PDW for indoor use, such as defending my house, with supers in the mag and my can in the safe. In this configuration, it will ring my ears indoors, but is tolerable if I needed to use it in an emergency (I don't use a brake) and I trust it to stop any violence occurring in my home quickly in far fewer shots than a handgun or PCC. But at the range, when I want to play around, in a few quick seconds, can goes on and the subs go in, now I've got an American AS Val to play with, and it is insanely quiet, almost suppressed .22lr quiet, which means it is insanely fun. If I needed that capability on the go, the can and a few mags of subs can fit in the bag too. But if I ever, God forbid, found a reason to pull this thing out off the range, I'm more than likely doing so in a situation where the added length, reduced terminal performance, and reduced noise of using subs+suppressor provides little to no tactical advantage with a lot of drawbacks.
Why supers are bad for civilians: noise, awareness, high flash signature, higher recoil, and over penetration.
Why they're good: terminal performance.
Why subs are bad for civilians: less terminal performance.
Why they are good: severe increase in situational awareness, noise, less recoil, less flash, less penetration through obstacles.
Some of the best instuctors in the country who are ex socom recommend and use 300bo for self defense in civilian scenarios.
The benefits of supers are irrelevant to civilians in most scenarios. You don't need to shoot at range, you can't afford the over penetration, PDWs make it so easy to shoot fast and accurate making terminal performance irrelevant. If you live alone with no animals someplace where over penetration isn't an issue and you don't mind the awareness loss, sure, supers are great. A lot of people have family, pets, and neighbors they need to worry about and communicate with and that's where subs have a drastic advantage.
(Yes, this is all assuming you're using a silencer)
You can carry what you want but supers are not definitively better and I know more trained individuals who choose subsonic ammo over supersonic ammo for civilian defense.
@@maximusjoseppi5904 You aren't wrong about the pro's and cons. But I suppose we disagree on how important each of those are.
I see gel tests of supers and it is like a bomb going off, and it's hard to tell subs in gel from a 9mm hit in most cases. There are some gnarly projectiles that do cool things at subsonic speed, but for the most part, I look at a sub gel test and I think "That would leave a nice blood trail but I don't see that knocking down some naked guy with a knife high on PCP right away." Then I see supers in gel and think "damn, a center mass hit is going to shock anyone's CNS pretty hard." The difference is huge.
As for flash, I'm not planning on any protracted firefights at a distance where firing continuously from a concealed position is an advantage. I'd care about flash a lot more on a full-length duty rifle, something I would grab in a "without rule of law" scenario where I needed to defend my neighborhood from multiple armed attackers or something. But for home defense, flash from a .300blk pistol is minimal and I don't need to fire continuously and remain concealed after the fact.
Recoil feels about the same to me with subs or supers (internal pressure is similar with both). In fact, I would say 220s take longer to get back on target than 110s.
Overpenetration is something lots of people worry about, but I don't because you have to go to .22lr ballistics before not punching through drywall becomes a possibility anyways. The reality is that no matter the cartridge, you have to consider your backstop because you will go through a wall, so as long as you aren't firing green tip .308 I don't see much of a difference. Plus, I would be very surprised if supers (fragmenting/expanding) overpenetrate that much more than subs, generally slow heavy bullets with a high BC overpenetrate a lot in tissue while lighter faster bullets dump all their energy quicker.
The noise is the last concern. Great thing about .300blk is that even supers aren't *that* loud even out of shorter barrels. Not compared to 5.56. My 18" .308 is way louder. But regardless, while shooting without earpro (and/or a can) can deafen you temporarily, it doesn't incapacitate you (speaking from experience, had a loose plug and lost hearing in left ear after firing several mags at an indoor range, didn't notice til I stepped off the range). But you are right, this is bad for awareness. However, a can will take the edge off enough, even with supers, to keep your hearing and not ring your ears that badly. Your OSS would be great combined with supers. You would likely do some amount of hearing damage due to supersonic crack but not lose your hearing during a fight or ring your ears that hard.
I guess I just don't see those downsides as that big, when you consider supers get you rifle terminals and subs get you pistol terminals. The hydrostatic shock of a rifle-velocity projectile has been proven to stop even the most coked-up bad guy very quickly in very few shots, while doctrine with handgun calibers is to fill them with lead for a reason.
my rattler shoots subs and supers on plus and minus with and without a supressor
that's awesome, you were lucky. some do, some don't. I wasn't as lucky with mine and the problem is that when they don't work, sig will not support the defective product and fix it.
My rattler canebrake is my flattest most consistent weapon I own..I have had over 1000 rounds through never a problem
not everyone is that lucky.. if only sig cared enough to help those that aren't as fortunate.
Why would you want to shoot subs without a can?
maybe watch the video before you comment....
Pros and Cons to everything
I would love to build out a very similar gun to yours instead of purchasing a rattler. Can you make a build video or at the very least put up a build list brother? Thanks in advance!
He has a build list from his March 20th, 2020 video. But I still would love a step-by-step video. I would pay for it.
This my be a dumb question, but why would you want to shoot subsonic ammo without a suppressor? It seems for a self defense weapon, you would want to pack supersonic ammo. And a suppressor to supers to save your ears, and still save your ears.
watch the video... I explain why for 10 minutes. supersonic rounds, even with a suppressor, are extremely loud and often not hearing safe for even 1 round. never mind hearing safe, the concussion is immense in a room or hallway and the amount of situational awareness you gain from using subsonic rounds is substantial. next add in the significant complication of over penetration when using full power 110-120 grain supersonic 300 blackout rounds and you end up with many people, including some of the best instructors in the country opting for subsonic 300 for home defense.
the question you should be asking is, can your self defense weapon work in all conditions and if it cant, why would you choose it when there are weapons that will?
I have a Sig MCX Rattler - I don’t experience any of this nonsense - over 1000 rounds - suppressed and unsuppressed - I had a couple of failure to eject issues inside of the first 50 rounds - easily cured with the adjustable gas block - so not sure what you’re talking about
i can't imagine why its hard for you to understand..... but we got different rifles. they didnt give me the rifle you are using, they gave me a different one when i bought it. mine didnt work, yours does... which is cool and all except for the fact that sig wont fix their product when it doesnt work and then they put in their owners manual (the same one you have as well this time) that it probably wont work unsuppressed.
so what exactly are you having a hard time understanding there max
Can you give us a parts list of what you built?
i have a whole video on the build
@@maximusjoseppi5904 Thanks, I thought you might and looked for it but didn’t see it. I will look again.
I've never had a problem with my Rattler
some people are lucky and it works like it should, some arent. problem is, sig wont fix it if they dont work like mine when it didnt. unacceptable gamble for a $2700 rifle.
I don't own any 300 blk guns so I dint really have a dog in this fight. I say that so this can be seen as objective as possible. I haven't watched your other video on this particular build so I'm not sure but it looks like at least a 7 or 7.5 inch barrel which is naturally gonna be way less finicky than a 5.5 or 6 inch barrel. I'm not saying this comparison is full on apples to oranges but this isn't really a fair comparison.
it does have a longer barrel because it needs to work properly and i preferred a non adjustable gas system that i didnt need to tune. if a 5.5-6" barreled gun cannot be made to function properly in all conditions, its not an adequate self defense weapon. its a fair comparison because they are both PDWs intended for the same purpose in the same systems. the 2.5" difference in barrels is irrelevant to the category of the firearm and role it will fill.
that being said, theres zero excuse for a 5.5" barreled gun with an adjustable gas block to not work.. some rattlers do work, some dont. the problem is that sig doesnt support their product when it doesnt cause they're lazy.
wtf he's talking about my maxim defense works properly with or without a suppressor FACTS
no it doesnt... rofl. ive spoken to the engineers personally at maxim defense, the gun isnt intended to work without back pressure, thats why they ship with a back pressure muzzle device.
I agree the sig rattler sucks I’ve had 3 of them 300blk and 556 Never seen a gun have so many malfunctions. The whole design needs alot of work.
my rattler shoots flawless in semi and full auto
Form 1 that thing
probably should now that the ATF is getting over zealous. otherwise, this is the same thing and equally functional in all areas. no reason for the extra restrictions of an NFA item unless i need to.
why not use a higher quality optic? WTF CHEAPO
haha... imagine thinking theres a higher quality optic than a 508T. man.. youtube comments
Good gun but Daniel Defense is much better.
That's a decent gun. It's just very heavy and isn't ambi. The honey badger is pretty awesome for store bought but the stock is kinda lackluster.
There really isn't an ideal 300blk PDW out there today. Ideal would be a roughly AR15 pattern rifle, DI gas system, 7-9" barrel, 1:5 (for terminal performance) or 1:6 twist (for accuracy), forward assist (in some form, even just the detent in the BCG), AR pattern barrel/handguard/lower compatible, but with a recoil spring/buffer housed in the upper receiver and a non-reciprocating side charging handle instead of the rear T-handle.
The new CMMG comes really really close to being ideal, but the twist is a bit slow for that short of a barrel, they could offer longer barrels (6.75" is a bit short, I like 7 and up for serious use to maintain the longer range advantage of 300blk over a PCC) since the bufferless system lets it pack up so nicely, it has absolutely no forward assist capability (even the detent on the BCG is gone), and subjectively, CMMG's new furniture is really ugly.
The DDM4 PDW is also nice, very well built, but slightly heavy for its size and has a slow twist. It is very well tuned considering the non-adjustable gas block and will run everything without fooling with it, but the rear T charging handle of the AR15 has always been the source of gas up the nose.
Piston guns are finnicky and not ideal for suppression with K baffle cans (which is how you ideally want to suppress 300blk subs), the Honey Bader is way overpriced for what it is, Maxum PDX apparently has gassing issues, ect. ect.
None of them are quite perfect, but CMMG is on the right path.
Cool so you built a sugar weasel basically
except not at all? haha.
Ultimate with a arm brace.....trash
Don't tell anyone... But there's no functional difference between a brace and a stock haha. Just lots of unnecessary restrictions and taxes if you use the stock end
@@maximusjoseppi5904 lol, ok. From the guy who wants to shoot 300blk subs unsuppressed.
@@snunez1911 oh, so you're just all around clueless.. should prob watch the video before you comment kiddo 🤣 looks like you have so much to learn about firearms
@@maximusjoseppi5904 nothing to learn from your channel
@@snunez1911 haha you could learn something from a cereal commercial
Not gonna take advice from someone that runs a holosun open emitter on a "defense" weapon lol.
Poors trying to give advice is cringe af.
I was writing a comment about how stupid ur video was. I erased it. I still love sig products and think ur wrong , but still great video and very nice build there
Its ok to disagree. thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
Bruh that ain’t better than the rattler homie, sorry bout that.
dude no disrespect but your pdw setup is pretty basic and low end compared to a MCX RATTLER.
You loose all credibility and make yourself look less intelligent everytime you say "silencer" in the video and in the comments. IMO you are paid by DD. This video is utter bullshit.
hahaha. you do know.... the guy who invented the silencer..... called it a silencer..... right? speaking of unintelligent. his name was hiram maxim and the original patent is "silencer." stupidity on the internet....