How To Run More Lift With Vortec Heads
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Vortec heads are limited to how much lift you can run. Let's discuss how you can run more lift without machine work.
Link to GM Performance Valve Springs:
amzn.to/3cxPISy
Link to Comp Cams Retainers:
amzn.to/3cxPLxI - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I did exactly this set up on my 383 except I redid the rocker studs to be screw in with pushrod guides for gits and shiggles. I have a Comp cam with .490 lift and I just finished breaking my cam in for 25 minutes at 2K RPM. The engine sounds like a beast.
How is it running now Allen? What casting number heads were they? I’m doing a 383 build and I may copy this, sound like a good combo!
@@garysmith5663 I'm still building the rest of the car. Headers right now, then shift linkage, steering column, and brakes.
I found out my LS beehive springs actually have only around .490 lift clearance with stock keepers, retainers, and stem seals. I bought Howards Cams 93010 Forged 7 Degrees Valve Locks, Black. They're supposed to give .050 more clearance. My cam has .480 lift.
What cam and specs
I did this same setup on my k10 and ran a lt4 hotcam... absolutely lovey combo!
How much lift did you get out of this combo? I'm looking for to run .500 lift
I am running 26915 springs, 787 retainers, and Crane +0.050 locks to give me 1.8” installed height. I am using the felpro seals as well and I have .570 retainer to seal clearance on the exhaust and .590 on the intakes. Also running a GM LT4 hotcam with Comp 1.6 rollers with .525 lift with no issues. Everything works great and it’s a nice combo!
I almost went with the hotcam. Ive heard really good things about it.
Are you using self align rockers? The rails of the rocker tip don’t hit the retainer with the +.050 locks?
@@dickbrugh5562 Yes I am using the Comp 1418 self aligning and I had to grind the rails down just enough so they don't hit the retainer. Theres enough material there to still leave enough of a lip so it stays on the valve.
I'm currently doing a beehive retainer swap on a set of Vortec heads. If possible, where did you get the springs at that price? I can find no name behive Springs for 50 bucks but not GM performance or a brand name.....
@Tim Jackson i cant seem to find the crane locks. I have pn 99095-1. Are they discontinued?
I hope this reaches you MJM. I have spent the last 2 weeks looking for the right valve seal because there isn't a video on CZcams with the valve seal specs. I heard from several places the the Viton is what your supposed to use but they come in different sizes like 1 is .500 and another would be .550 and I wasn't sure which I needed. I'm only running a 480/480 lift and everything else is identical to your heads. Much appreciated on the valve seals. Last piece I needed to get them finished.
I’m running stock valve stem seals for a 1996 Chevy c10 with a 350.
Thanks Brother, good video!
Thanks for this.
Subcribed. I am going with a summit 8803 cam in my 97 c1500 350 vortec and you explained in 1 video not only the parts needed for max possible lift but part names and numbers. This would work with an lt4 hotcam also but the summit 8803 is 1/2 the price and stall sound is as good if not better.
Thank you very much
Ls6 valve springs are also found in 3800 series 99+ gm cars. 😉 I can get them from junknyards. The cars don’t run high light or Rpm’s so the springs are excellent shape especially on the cheap
This video is gold
Thanks!
My vortec heads had seal to retainer clearance of .611 with this set up! I used fel pro seals.. Don't know if that makes a difference but I could run just about any cam I wanted lol! Spring pressure of 300lbs at .500 lift! 115 lbs installed.
Awesome!
Did you need to have them studded?
Old video but great content so thought I'd take a shot and see if it's still monitored. My son's new motor is similar, .495 lift with Vortec heads, it was too much for our spring setup. Heading to Summit today to try this route but here's my question: his current springs have a "shim" or washer at the bottom between the spring and the head surface. Should this "shim" be retained or should the spring sit right on the surface of the head?
Can you run roller rockers with your combination? How much compression max with the set up?
What's the max lift on this combo? I'm looking to run .500 lift
Actually GM was using the L31 in a limited capacity in certain trucks in vans all the way to 2002.
Thanks for all the parts numbers, good video.
Yeah I forgot about those.
at what pounds are the valve specs at?
What’s the best lift to run on a l31 98 motor I got outta Silverado 1500 I’m putting it in my cutlass 1984 as we speak I’m looking for a cam not sure what direction to start in
What should I do to make vortec heads handle 640 lift
How much more lift can I get by running the Comp cams 26918 springs and
Comp cams 787-16 retainers? I have stock Vortec heads with a Comp Cams CL-262-4 Cam with 0.464/0.470 lift. What clearance can I get with out needing to machine the valve seats?
I bought custom springs for my vortec from a place called Alex's Parts
Outside Diameter- 1.270"
Inside Diameter- .880"
120 Lbs @ 1.770"
310 Lbs @ .500" Lift
331 Lbs @ .550" lift
Rate- 380#
Coil Bind 1.145
Beehive Spring? - No
Part # Vsk4h52 for engines w/ vortec heads and hyd roller cams up to 227 degrees duration @ .050"
No machine work able to use up to a 550 lift w/1.6
I've used Alex's parts many times for the Vortec heads. Usually with the LT4 Hot Cam.
Just mentioned this.. I think it is the best. Matching setup that is tried and true
I got a Howard’s cam for free with .507/.495 lift, would this setup be enough for the cam?
I sell a complete kit with beehive springs Pac retainers and +.05 locks that cure most of those issues, the package your working with will end up at 1.740 ish installed height, the ls springs are designed for and rated at 1.800 installed height.
How much does your kit run? I'm considering putting a set of vortec heads on an older small block.
@@CountyGarage207 159.00 free shipping
@@powellmachineinc3179 That sounds good, if I pick up a set of vortec heads I'll be getting a hold of you.
Would your kit be good to .530 lift?
I’m looking to set up a set of vortecs to run a roller cam. The LS6 springs don’t have enough pressure for a roller. Do you sell a kit that is roller compatible? Thanks
those retainers look tapered down? if so, is that so self alighning rockers do not contact retainer top surface? Thanks Lou
I would think so. They work well with the self aligning rockers.
Just a real quick question,, no stud issues with .480 lift or self aligning rocker issues on the retainers?
If you use the stock rockers just make sure the slots are long enough. I haven’t heard of too many issues with the press in rocker studs.
I'm currently in the SAME situation. I bought the cheapest beehive Springs I could fand so I could find the comp Cam's retainers to match the match and the cam I have the Max exhaust lift is .478. I'm currently scouring CZcams and researching to make sure that I can get away with this with factory style seals and rockers. Or factory dimension seals but a higher quality upgrade seal.
What's a good off the shelf camshaft with them heads .. decent sound at idle and good power
I can lookup the specs on mine but I don’t have the engine all back together to see how it does.
Do you have to go with 1.6 rockers with a .50 lift cam?
You can use 1.5, or 1.6. With 1.6 and .500 lift cam you should measure to make sure your heads will allow that much lift just to be safe. That would equivalent to around .534 lift.
can you use factory rocker arms with the ls1 valve spring setup you used ?
Yes
I’m running this same exact setup you think I’d have a problem with .501 lift?
U should be fine
Also, did you replace studs with screw in? Thanks Again
I did not but would be a good idea to do it.
Just scored a set of vortex heads. I cannot find any markings on these heads. Not sure if they were removed or maybe these are some type of aftermarket heads. Any suggestions. 2.02 /1.60, screw in studs, springs with damper. Feels like a deal. Please advise.
Hard to say without knowing exactly what they are. There should be some markings somewhere on them.
Could be Kung Pao special knockoffs. Vortex heads will have casting numbers.
Are you doing this on a flat tappet cam. If so are going to have cam break in issues?
I’m using a roller cam but break in procedures shouldn’t be impacted by this. Just follow the cam manufacturer’s procedure.
What issues could I have on a 906 heads with a flat tappet 444/467 lift cam? Stock springs and retainers.
You are going to most likely get coil bind and cause damage. You need to change the springs and retainers for that much lift.
coil bind,broken valves,broken springs,smashed pistons etc
I had a set of 906 heads on a factory crate motor and the springs he recommended, the comp cams ones I ran but did not fit my heads with out machine work. Neither did the Chevy blue LS6 springs. My valve guide boss was .900 and inside of comp cams springs was .840 and chevy blues were .880. I had to machine the valve guide boss and spring seat. I would avoid the chevy blue springs. I think my seat pressure was going to be 127# but my comp cams springs was around 110#. Dose not sound like a big difference but it is. I have only seen the fitment issue on the 906 castings. I don't know if all 906 had the issue or just some of them but min did not allow any aftermarket spring to drop in. I think after machining my heads and the comp cams springs my heads were good up to .575 lift. I was only running .475 but nice to have the extra clearance if I wanted to run a different cam.
so there no machining to do the the heads to make these valve springs with those part numbers ? and do you use the original valve locks ?
No machining and I used the stock keepers aka locks.
@@mjmcomputers what cam did you go with? I'm planning on using a xm270h from comp cam also what plugs do you use with those heads just trying to have everything figured out before I start spending money on the wrong parts lol
@@BobRochon comp cams 08-422-8
When will we get some more w123 videos?
I’ve got one I’ll put out soon. Been really busy working and it hasn’t really had any issues to video about. What it really needs now is body work.
I took mine to a machine shop and the owner said (before he past away) as long as you take out the dampeners in the springs and use the stock vortec retainers you can use anything to 525 lift. The heads in stock form only flow and make power to 500 lift. Anything over that your pissing in the wind! If You need more power and lift go aftermarket.stock vortec heads will only make a max of 450hp with high compression but you can always spray it!
Unlikely I’ll ever get to dyno mine but it has to be better than the smog era 305.
@@mjmcomputers lol 👍
@@AR_420 yeah,its true. I did mine with screw in studs,roller rocker, milled the pusrod guides, the cam is an older grind 500 lift max with 242 dur. At .50. Flat top single eye brows 1/16 rings 12 1/4 :1 compression and 350 sniff nitrous = 730 hp!!! On a 358 cui smallblock Chevy. No joke
@@eddiecahall3824 I don't want to do any machine work and it's gonna be a mild build, maybe 350 horse at the most.. The stock rockers are good to .480 lift. so I'm just using the comp 787 retainers beehive Springs and a GM performance Cam grind 215/223 .475/.475. LSA 109
@@AR_420 you have to mill the heads , the bottom of the valve guides for clearances, otherwise you have to use regular 1260 height stock style valve springs. You don't need beehive unless the heads are aftermarket vortec or a lot of mchine work to the stock Vortecs. I use the comp cams 105 1260 height 110 seat closedlbs and 352lb seat preassures open with vortec retainers...or vintage GM z28 110 pressure springs.good to .510 lift total with comp cams vortec roller rockers.You have to take out the inner dampener springs for clearances, or they will hit.... Older grind .500 lift 242 dur. At .50 lift total. = 450hp no adder. With nitrous 730hp.flat top pistons only!!! You have to use vortec retainers on vortec stock heads only,or the other retainers WILL Hit the top of the valve guides! A 475 or 480 lift cam flat tappet with 9 1/2 to 1 compression 350 will make 410hp with this combo and stock vortec heads! Very mild alotta power.Do NOT use the behives!!! Will tear up your heads unless they're machined correctly. And then your over doing it anyways. I built 2, two diffrent ways. Been building 35yrs +. Worked in a machine shop 15yrs. I'm retitred from it but still for myself and buddies I build or help. Any questions just ask :)
Sorry I'm ignorant, what is the valve spring binding? I'm running 305 heads on a 350 and want to lower compression and increase flow. The vortec heads seem like the cheapest option to get me around the 400 horse mark.
Binding is where the coil compresses completely and the coils of the spring hit each other.
@@mjmcomputers that makes sense, thanks for the reply and video.
@@brandonstewart7145 I’m pretty sure, but could be wrong, but the 5.0 vortec head isn’t like the 5.7 with the flow. I was told not to use 5.0 vortec heads because they won’t produce much more power than the older boat anchor heads. Not sure why Chevy would have different V8 vortec heads but I’ve seen dumber things. Check out Piss Cutter Performance’s channel, that guy is the all knowing of vortec heads, I think he explains the 5.0 and 5.7 differences.
The 305 vortec head specs 184/1.5 58 cc not the best for hp or torque
What's the biggest cam i can run on a completely stock vortec head????
.420ish.....maybe .425" safely. That's with a .050"-.060" valve seal to retainer buffer/safety margin for high rpm shenanigans
People have said .420 to .470, but that might b.c its production so the tolerances are a mile
What is the retainer number
Link is in the description.
Did you do screw in rocker studs also? And do you have a video on the valve job?
No I’ve heard vortec’s aren’t bad about the studs pulling out. If I run into problems I’ll do screw in studs. Yes I do have a valve job video. czcams.com/video/rhz2NHGcfOs/video.html
no,gmpp s350/357 crate engine doesn't pin the studs or use screw in studs either.it isnt really an issue with an under 400 horsepower street build.
What locks sould you run with this
I’m using stock keepers
.475" lift on stock vortec heads.
Yes I run a .470 lift comp cam with no problems at all!
so how much lift can you even run with the springs and stuff you installed now ?!
In theory you should be good to .500ish but if you are going over .475 you might want to measure.
And the keepers .u don't say on the vid.i know there off set?
Stock keepers
Do you have to machine the valve guides
No I did not.
Thanks man do you think a comp xe262 will work fine with them
I recently purchased a 96 c 1500 with a 5.0 vortec. I will be changing the intake manifold gasket as it is leaking coolant. While replacing the gasket I will swap the cam. Will the ls6 springs work on the 5.0 vortec heads? looking to get about 490ish lift.
Yes they should work just fine.
So I’m not a super motorhead at all. But I was looking to put a comp cam thumpr or mutha thumpr in my truck. You mentioned something about machining valves and I was hoping to keep everything on the bottom end of the head stock without doing any machine work. Is that possible? Thanks
You need to see what the lift is for that cam. I only did the valves because these heads needed a valve job.
What locks do you use?
Stock vortec
@@mjmcomputers how much is it for the kit? Do you have any?
I don’t sell them but links are in the description for the parts I used.
so are you guys just swapping to the 787-16 retainers and re-using the factory vortec retainer locks?? I mean this video doesnt mention ANYTHING about swapping out the locks so I assume you are just popping out your springs, tossing in new oem vortec seals...then tossing in the ls6 springs and 787-16 retainers and away you go...
Yes I’m using the stock keepers.
Every video I watch claims a different lift for Vortec heads.
DID ALL THAT AND LEFT THE SHITTY PRESS IN STUDS? OR ARE THEY THREADED?
They may be "incognito" screw in studs. I bought a set from ebay. Summit, Jegs, ebay, Speedway has em. 3/8 coarse on bottom and standard 7/16 fine thread for factory style rocker nuts. Small band between thread sections.
Very rarely do vortec studs pull out unless you’re exceeding 425-450hp, but if you’re going over that then machine work will need to be done. Yeah it’s a nice safety measure to do but when on a budget build it’s definitely not necessary. Older heads like 883’s it would be stupid not to.