Why BOXING Destroyed KARATE 🥊🥋
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- čas přidán 23. 09. 2020
- Okinawan Karate includes bunkai, grappling, weapons and throws. So why is Japanese Karate so different? The history of Western Boxing has the answer. It all began with a 1921 title fight between Jack Dempsey and George Carpentier in New Jersey, USA.
Big thanks to Patrick McCarthy, the world’s #1 Karate researcher & author, for providing me with the historical insight presented in this video. Please see "Tanpenshu" (Funakoshi Gichin) and "Watashi no Karatejutsu" (Motobu Choki) to learn more about the fascinating history of Karate.
☯️ BIO: Jesse Enkamp a.k.a The Karate Nerd™ is a #1 Amazon Best-Selling Author, National Team Athlete, Keynote Speaker, Entrepreneur, Carrot Cake Lover & Founder of Seishin International - The World’s Leading Karate Lifestyle Brand.
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WARNING: The advice and movements shown in this video are for informational and educational purposes only. Consult a health professional before engaging in any exercise or martial arts program.
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Music credit: Scott Buckley - released under CC-BY 4.0 - www.scottbucjkley.com.au
PART 2! 👊 Learn how Motobu Choki defeated Gichin Funakoshi: czcams.com/video/BfXWu4AteXg/video.html 🥋
Maybe some quality information about the differences in karate gi’s? Like the differences between high waist/normal waist- cotton vs polyester & lycra etc
I’d love to hear about the differences between gi’s and how they stack up to each other
Great ideas! 👍
How to do a spinning hook kick. I'd kindly request it bcz I'm struggling with it a lot
Put a video about ISSHIN-RYU KARATE
Practical karate applications
Bruce Lee himself stressed that Boxing is absolutely essential, especially for the timing, rhythm, footwork and endurance training.
I boxed for 20 plus years before taking up Karate (which I've always been fascinated by) but my base will always be boxing and it helps with my karate big time
@@Shadowrulzalways we don't know how good that boxer was.. Boxing has evolved a ton. I bet if he was put against a Mike Tyson or a modern good mma fighter he would lose really fast
@@Shadowrulzalways the things you're saying show you know nothing about boxing. You can't be a strong man and a top level boxer at the same time. Ok, boxing has the disadvantage of not being able to deal with grappling, I give you that. Now if you tell me your karate guy will win against someone like Fedor Emelianenko in his prime or Khabib Nurmagomedov then I won't waste any more of my time on you...
@@Shadowrulzalways as if someone paid me to win arguments against you ahahah
@@Shadowrulzalways tldr
After getting a black belt in tae kwon do, I trained boxing for about 2 months....returned to tae kwon do for tournaments, and was DQ'd multiple times for throwing a Side Kick followed by "Too many punches not giving opponent chance to recover" ...training in full body martial arts as well as boxing is superior to one or the other.
That's what Bruce Lee talked about
I always go as far as disregarding a lot of the modern TKD as a martial art altogether... they're fighting-inspired gymnastics, a bigger disgrace to its origin than modern karate is to Okinawan karate.
(Yes I do get a lot of flak for saying this, I'm used to it)
taekwondo and boxing togather is a great combo
Yeah, I trained TKD to. It is very good martial art, but as a standalone MA its not very effective if you fight some1 who knows how to fight back. But, i would definitely recomend it as a frist martial art, since no other MA can teach you how to kick like TKD. It should be followed by Boxing or Kickboxing... Brasilian Jiu Jitsu is also awesome to complete the circle...
@@AyeJordan7 Yeah, you are right. But, honestly a master in tkd wouldnt stand a chance vs very good Muay Thai or kick boxer... Bcos TKD leaves 2 key things in fighting, and thats low kicks and face punches... Atleast the style i was training. Tho, as you said many practicioners train only for points, so it is more of a sport than a MA. But still, you gotta admit that TKD is not a complete MA...
It's sad that this happens to most martial arts, like taekwondo and karate, where they used to be deadly and are now just sports where you jump around and score points
where they really deadly? i mean its hard to practice without a real resisting oponent, sounds like the aikido scam, too deadly to sparr yet when an mma guy bet his life he beats the aikido guy because the deadlyness is mostly in their mind
@@carlospreciado2195 I said "used to be deadly" In my tkd school we practice techniques properly, with resisting opponents, and we have boards and stuff as well to be able to do the stuff hard. But It's an exception, and most schools nowadays don't do that kinda stuff. But yeah I think that the old versions of tkd and karate were much more effective. Also one time I almost broke my instructor's leg by doing a technique full power on him, and I was 11 so I wasn't very strong
You were just going to the wrong karate dojo. Sounds like there was more of an emphasis on sport (point) karate. A true dojo is going to also include plenty of striking (with the makiwara) and conditioning of the body to toughen it! Tournament karate stresses control and pulling punches to score without injuring your opponent not good if you can’t switch that mindset in a street fight. Happened to me as a brown belt! I assure you Karate is still deadly but depends on where you train and your goals. There’s a video on CZcams of a Okinawan Sensei in his late 70s. The guy breaks a fricken makiwara! A blow like that would be lethal to a human being!
I know that feeling
Just look at jiu jitsu, especially in america everybody there think bjj is normal jiu jitsu
Went from karate to boxing and never looked back but I still remember my Shotokan roots… it’s definitely beneficial to train in multiple different styles if possible in order to form your own
Same story. Started in karate until black belt then i started boxing and muay thai. Doing so made me realize a lot of weaknesses in shotokan. I still love karate. In my heart im still a karateka.
My memory of Shotokan: as soon as we began sparring, none of the karate formalism seemed to apply or feel natural. What did feel natural was boxing techniques like the jab. Of course, in order to get "points," you must do the "technique," except real fights don't care about points.
@@matthewdietzen6708 the jab is actually named "maite zuki" in karate, finally all styles looks pretty similar :)
@@faynoz8566 I think I’d have to describe the final form of mma as low muai thaï with wrestling takedowns rear naked choke.
Same goes for Taekwondo. People who went from TKD to Muay Thai had a much easier time kicking with a few adjustments here and there.
Boxing / Pugilism is older than most people realise.
+1.
The Terme Boxer statue is one of the most amazing examples of martial art representation. You could just switch the cestus with gloves and that would look like a modern-day boxer or MMA fighter...More than 2000 years ago.
Agree. Even Ancient Romans had a fistfight style which was not boxing but something very-very close to it.
@@mattmc9812 most old boxer would also train wrestling as well , they actually went hand and hand for the most part. Also boxing used to have more a self defense orientation to it . They taught defense against kicks and grabs ,as well as how to used simple kicks and grappling techniques.
@@mattmc9812 that's right it is more akin to "dirty boxing".It included elbows,knees, grappling,headbutts .
It's hitting people with your fist. Children do that. So, it's as old as mankind.
I guess I was lucky. My karate instructor taught us. Kicks, punches, joint locks, throws, everything. Plus he was a bouncer at one of the roughest bars in the city. He had quite a few knockdown drag 'em out street fights under his belt. He knew what worked, and what didn't, and he taught us this.
Dang, what was your instructor's name?
Where can I find this man? I want to sign up my boys and my daughter for some lessons.
69 let me fix it now it’s 70
My sensei teaches us all these too. We also spar and have adult classes where things are even harder.
@@Christian.L.Rodgersget them into boxing or kick boxing much much much more effective and will actually teach them how to fight 😊
Thank you for clarifying this publically Jesse. I trained in Shotokan most of my life until I opened my own Dojo. It was there I decided to study its Okinawan roots and learn to apply the the principles and techniques of what Karate truly is in my instruction. My very first study was the book Shotokan's Secret. The "secret" was how true Karate was modified in Japan for political acceptance to appear to be only a striking martial art.
shotokan karate does have grappling
I trained in traditional karate for many years as a teen. It was not until I started to train in BJJ, Muay Thai, and MMA that I relaied how ineffective traditional karate training is. I also recall how I used to fall for the ploy traditionalists used to say - that a lot of the more effective techniques of self-defense are "hidden" in true and real karate and that I just didn't know it and had to keep seeking and looking to find it. I am sure once you peel back all the woo-woo mysticism of traditional karate and hidden bunkai nonsense - if you truly and genuinely sought to train the way people serious about self-defense train - it will look much like BJJ, Muay Thai, and MMA do today.
Which karate was more effective ?
@@rauf2610 I trained in GoJu
@@rauf2610 Cobra-kai
Isn't BJJ a version of Judo that prioritizes training in ground games
Your confusing today's traditional Karate with the original traditional Karate. It depends on who's school you have learned from Okinawan Karate has always had pressure points, joint locks, and take downs.
Schools in Okinawa Still teach the original traditional Karate, the majority of them do and it does not mean that because a school has hundreds of students and dojos around the world that they teach you better karate then a single small Dojo in Okinawa that only teaches select students. You will get better training from the small dojo with only few students. Karate was not meant to be taught to a large crowd of students except if your interested in exercise only. Karate is taught according to your type of body. So it is not practical to teach to large number of students at the same time the Kata the exact same way for everybody.
The way you describe as Karate being "incomplete" the same could be said for boxing. In Roman times when boxing was the official sport, even though there was never any kicking, any strike using the hands was allowed: backhands, hammer fist, open palm strikes, etc... Holds were also allowed, not anything like breaking arms or joint lock, but you could grab and toss or move your opponent into striking positions kind of like the Muay Thai clinch does.
Was the Greeks created boxing and the Roman's borrowed the art.
@A l p h e u s I hate how clinching to change positions is considered as normal but clinching while punching is too dirty and could cost you a point
Like, I feel like it would be more exciting for fighters to try and strike while being tangled and I wouldn't mind pushing like how George Foreman does it but it's so frustrating to think that you did your best to finally put your opponent at your preferred range then suddenly he hugs you and all that hardwork was for nothing 😭😂
@A l p h e u s the trips would be kinda controversial since some would abuse it and maybe get away with kicking but agreed that clinching should either be too dirty or be allowed
I don't understand how boxers can put you in a guillotine but get taken out a point for punching after a clinch
That’s not boxing. That’s pancration
Boxing is a sport, not a fighting system.
Make
Karate
Complete
Again
Best campaign slogan ever. 👊
Cobra kai?
@@mpforeverunlimited 😆
Cobra Kai is
Strike first, Strike hard, No Mercy
Dutch Kickboxing?
Just do mma
Specially taichi man, it used to have a lot of fighting moves and grappling techniques
My dad is a black belt in karate (I don't remember the variation ill ask) and I skipped that and went to boxing. When I went into MMA my pops helped train me a bit when it came to the kickboxing aspect. I used those techniques more than the techniques my Muay Thai coach taught me. Now I regret never taking karate. Or wrestling. But that's a different story lol.
@juanocampo2262 Everyone's dad is a black belt* 😊
I got 2 years of HS wrestling and it was the best decision I ever made. It was cheap as hell, at school, and had me develop one hell of a base for fighting. Gonna learn Muay Thai now!
I think punching has a tendency to be more efficient. Also the way boxers train quickly weeds out ineffective technique. The only downside is that you can develop brain injuries relatively early in your boxing training.
Right.....I practice peekaboo style boxing and Jeet Kun Do from the book Bruce Lees fighting method.....originally Jeet Kun Do didn't have sideways movement and pivoting....I had to go to boxing for those moves....and high kicks and backhands are not something I practice
I definitely want to hear the story of how Gichin got his butt kicked. That wasn't in his autobiography...
Not one of his proudest moments, presumably. 🙃
intrested to know more
The legend says that he eventually got bullied by Motobu Choku Sensei...
It may have smth to do with Motobu's noble/royal birth...
@pat mat That must be why Otsuka left Funakoshi to study under Motobu; he saw who was the boss.
So original karate was supposed to be MMA. So we should learn MMA.
Basically, I was told by my sensei that the Okinawans, being in the middle of sea faring trade, absorbed a lot of techniques from other Asian countries especially China and Thailand.
MMA is a joke compared to real karate
There is no martial art called MMA, you got figure out what you need to learn.
Karate was nothing like MMA.
@@Burboss and the is no MMA style, everyone is different.
My father is a black belt in Goju-Ryu and he said he didn't learn how to fight with his hands until he spared a boxer, he was humbled by him. Couldn't land a glove on him with his head movement either. So that's why I was taught boxing first as a child 😅
Thank you Jesse for the videos you put out. This one in particular hit home because prior to my original Sensei Reno morales passing away in 2013, we would often have discussions on the original arts from Okinawa. Many talks discussed, how Sensei Gichin Funakoshi was viewed by both Japanese and the Okinawans. The truth hurts sometimes but, it has to be said to clear confusion sometimes. Sensei Reno had visited Japan long ago while in the U.S. military . He elaborated on many topics troubling him about modern Karate and also answered my many questions. One of my questions dealt with the actual grappling in karate. He explained, originally there were at least 13 throws which were commonly practiced but later discarded for the purposes described in your video. Clearly the katas in Karate leave plenty of room for questions in a young karateka's mind ( that was me). Thank you for bringing to light what was long ago discarded but essential for true combat Karate. OSU!!!
"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face"
- *Mike Tyson*
*fathe
If he hit you In the face bite his ear of
Everybody has a plan until u sniff coke
everyone hath a faith unthil dey geth punthed in tha plan
"Everyone has a plan until they get elbowed in the chin"
"But that's a story for another time."
No damnit, I need to hear it now!
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
haha. look to the right on recommended videos. first one in line, motobu choki.
Very good video. This stuff was more commonly known years ago but most modern practitioners have forgotten. Glad you're reintroducing this knowledge.
Jesse: It's a pleasure to be able to reach this history. I've always loved karate all my life. For me to find you have been something really nice and interesting because your video teaches me so many things about karate either Japanese and Okinawan. I encourage you to continue with this youtube channels.
When rules are implemented and a martial art is categorized as a SPORT, the "secret" techniques of any fighting system are bound to be lost and/or forgotten. Same thing happened judo. Then comes some individuals who bring them back and claim to invent them. Thanks Mr. Enkamp for your insight.
No secret techniques really exist)
Pretty sure some rules are added so they dont end up killing eachother and no one would watch a fight if the first person to punch the groin wins
And then everyone start sayin "boooo traditional martial art suxxxx. MMA is better boooo". TMA were use in war for centuries and some "genius" told everyone to watered it down for sports
@@professor_incognito that's why he types it as "secrets", with aphostophe
@@Adiarby13 cope and seeth. MMA is better
This is like learning Martial Arts History in Physical Education Class but much more interesting.
Duchi if he was my substitute history teacher I would want him to tell me everything he knows I will become unstoppable
Dude, imagine if PE taught martial arts?
You know what. You have a really good idea. I feel combat history and teaching of hand to hand combat should be taught in P.E. But I think schools don't do it, since it would cost a lot more money and you know how schools are when it comes to tight budgeting.
@@TheMixedPlateFrequency schools don’t do it because some people see it as promoting violence
@@bodhidixon2939 Well that is nonsense. All schoolboys should have compulsory boxing lessons from age 10 through 18 and skill and courage in the ring should count for at least as much as an exam pass. Boxing is the absolute best thing a young man can do.
I trained karate from ages 8 or 9 to 13 or 14 and even when i reached one stripe away from Black Belt i had very little understanding of how to fight because the "lessons" consisted of the person bring ATTACKED being told what to do and how to respond. So 5nor 6 years of train8ng with zeronactual resistance from anyone. Throughout this time me and my friends constantly wrestled with each other and i was quite good at that too. In my first real fight it took me about 20 seconds to realize my karate did nothing and i won by using the wrestling i had taught myself. After that i started boxing and kickboxing and within a month i wae a better fighter than in all my karate training. Dont waste your time. Have a base of wrestling or brazilian jiu jitsu for your grappling (preferably both) and boxing or kickboxing for your striking. Mimic the UFC and what the REAL fighters use to train :)
My sensei always dedicated atleast a quarter of each lesson to free sparring wich each other, just so you dont fall into routinely is x happens i do y
@JasonHebert - Dude, you started training at being a baby and stopped at being a little child. What did you think you learned?
@@MrZillasexactly 😂😂😂...
How does kicking and punching not work?
The crazy part is how you don't realize that your karate background made you a better fighter in the other styles you trained in...
When I saw first my friend practising karate, I literally felt so awkward. The first time when I saw it, I felt it was definitely incomplete because the karate is a form of art where the body posters, even while striking had the defense. Especially some body posters felt like they were meant to be there for holding the opponents's body parts or being ready for the counter grapple stunt. Now I do boxing but seeing this video removed by incompleteness and made me realize my intuition was true. Thank you brother.
This should be a Netflix/Japanese series.
Jaja, true
IPMAN is bascially this story over and over again
While I don't know if there was ever a show like that in nature, I have seen a movie that I found interesting called, "Fighter in the Wind," that was something of a dramatization of the life and experiences of Masutatsu Oyama, founder of Kyokushinkai Karate.
Although it's about the man as much as it is the style and it doesn't really relate to this subject matter at hand, I think it's still worth the watch if you can find it and I think those who made it might be able to pull off the creation of the series you're suggesting.
From what I could find of any historical worth, by all accounts Mas Oyama was a really interesting figure and supremely skilled in his own right. In some aspects I think of him as a bit like Bruce Lee in that he had experience with other styles/methods of martial arts, the influence of which can be seen in Kyokushin.
Apart from Karate (I believe he was experienced in both Shotokan and Goju Ryu if I recall correctly) he also had experience in Boxing and Judo. (There may have been other styles, but I don't remember well enough to comfortably state it as fact.)
If you aren't already familiar with the man behind the martial art, I won't go into further detail, but suffice to say there is a reason he was given the nickname, "The God Hand," and so much more in regards to his accomplishments.
Only legends knew that Jack Dempsey created ippo's Dempsey roll
Bruh they literally said that in the show
It's in the name....you'd be hard pressed to "google" or "duck duck go" "dempsey roll" without seeing jack dempsey name
Nani?
@@MrLoudthought yeah it's just a joke chill
@@Titi-sv3rb I'm chill, i just didn't understand it as a joke, being there was no punchline.
I always thought something about the modern day karate seemed incomplete, but after seeing this video everything makes more sense. I wish this kind of karate still existed.
People like you really inspire to practice Karate and follow the martial path. I love your way of explaining and how respectful you are with all martial arts! Greetings from Spain.
I appreciate that!
The most cringe part is when certain fighting style practicer defeats other style practicer, mostly they gonna say about how that style is better, instead of understanding that it's not about style that was better, it's about who uses it being better
But is it never true? Are there not certain styles more adept at combat?
@Maximus Vetarus Karate is watered down depending on who teaches you.
If they can get them fast enough with a strike they can.
That is truly sound advice.
@Maximus Vetarus That is truly sound advice. You sir know what you are talking about.
This explains why the founder of my Dojo blended Shorin-Ryu Karate,Judo, Wing Chun Kung Fu and weaponry. He was just trying to build something closer to the origins of Karate. It makes so much more sense now. Thank you.
Aka mcdojo aka corpse stitching
What got me really into boxing after years of karate was realizing if im being attacked im not always going to have the luxury of wearing the right pants and shoes and be stretched and warmed up to be kicking like I normally would, but if i can learn to use my hands they will always be available and ready
A quick 1-2 will end a whole lot of fights fast
Absolutely, so many hand strike styles to choose from
Enjoyed the history lesson. I remember learning about Funakoshi when I studied karate in my youth. The founder of modern karate do as I learned. This was a good eye opener about some of the history. I think anyone who has studied a martial art knows that being well learned in the various zones of fighting is important. We had a boxer training in our dojo who typically wanted to spar only using hands. He had some great hooks. It was fairly simple to nullify his hands by using low level kicks. He didn’t like getting his ribs bruised from sidekicks. I on the other hand learned valuable lessons about movement of my head so my nose wouldn’t be broken. And of course a grappler would just take us down. Learning various fighting disciplines and being fit is the only truth to know about the fight game. Much respect to all practitioners no matter your chosen discipline.
I remember when I studied karate (up to 2nd kyu), our senseis were UNaffiliated instructors (Shotokan). This allowed our senseis to fold in concepts of throws, locks, and holds, and it felt so much more complete. They even had guest instructors visit us from the disciplines of kung fu and escrima. It was awesome.
My club’s founder broke away from the KUGB and formed his own small association so as a result the club is able to do exactly what you described. Makes Shotokan more whole.
@Not This Guy Again I'm into boxing and muay thai these days and agreed, I count them as a bit more practical and direct than karate.... ALTHOUGH, I credit karate with teaching me a few things:
- distancing
- bracing at the moment of the strike
- timing of maximum "hardness" for the strike
- getting your shins bashed and pretending you didn't feel anything ;)
I'd also never discount the utility or power of a well placed mae geri or yoko geri (can't wait for free sparring in muay thai and bust out a surprise side kick), or if you have the luxury of it, a fully wound up straight punch. They'd all have a place depending on context. I mean, there's no ushiro geri in muay thai, so it's beneficial to have it in the toolbox.
@@Wessex90 This is exactly what Steve Cattle did in the early 90s. What we were doing back then extrapolated on the linear training of KUGB at the time and gave great freedom to interpret kata however you liked. Locks, sweeps, grapples and more knee and elbow strikes. We also trained with a few outside instructors in the likes kick boxers, Eskrima, jujitsu and other traditional Japanese weapon styles.
I suppose it was a little more akin to MMA. Not that many of us got particular proficient at the other disciplines, but it opened your eyes to the sort of things you may encounter outside of the dojo.
@@lampit471 absolutely! We do chokes (a lot), some basic Judo and basic ground work (we’re not super proficient with it, but it starts us off and our time is always a bit limited). I had the opportunity to do a Goju Ryu session last year during our annual camp and also did an MMA session with Chris Pritchard, a Shokukai (spelling?) and BJJ background earlier this year. We regularly train with a leading Aikidoka too as the Senseis are good friends (though I’ve never done the Aikido stuff yet). What helps a lot is that the club in general has many members who are very street wise (especially the head Sensei who’s scary as hell to pair up with). I don’t hear great things about KUGB at all because of the politics. We have quite an MMA mentality compared to other clubs I’ve seen when we did courses (quite a few “sports” karateka among them).
@@lampit471 out of curiosity, where in the UK do you train?
As a Judo practicioner I can relate to this. Making judo an olympic sport has taken out essential techniques like footlocks, leg grabbing take downs and some techniques considered dangerous. What we're left with is a watered down version of a complete fighting and self-defense system, just like what you are saying about Karate. I don't actually practice Karate (I did for a while when I was 11), but it's super interesting hearing your educated and critic point of view about martial arts. We need more people like you in the Budo world Jesse, congratulations!!
Fascinating stuff, learned a lot. I also learned that everyone in the comments section is a martial arts expert.
Quality content!!
Loved the way you explain it while giving importance to all martial art styles :)
A good history lesson of what had been going on with karate development in Japan. Thank you.
Glad to hear you liked it! Thanks for supporting my work 🌟
Motobu choki is the real version of the word "badass"
Legendary man 👊
The coolest thing to ever happen would've been if Motobu Choki actually fought John L. Sullivan instead of that other clown. Motobu comes in bare-knuckled and Sullivan gets a slight grin on his face as he rips off the gloves: happy to fight like he did in the old days. No rules need to be stated they know how the fight will happen: Bloody and lasting until one of them drops.
Love your videos my brother ;you give a very good historical background on karate 🥋. Thank you 🙏🏾 so much for sharing your knowledge.
Hello Jesse! I love your videos and serious research work that is not just about karate, but about several other arts. Greetings from a Brazilian friend!
I love the fact you refer to modern Karate as incomplete. And yet so many of the answers are right in front of us in Kata. Time to fill in the blanks me thinks! I'd love to hear Patrick Mccarthy's view on this. Thanks for sharing Jesse.
@@Traumatree thats why mma exists , mma is the most complete martial art as it uses all forms pf fight8ng and melds them to be the most effective
@@howmuchbeforechamp MMA is a sport, not a martial art.
So what you're saying is "The JAPANESE Destroyed Karate"
Almost martial arts were complete, but they’re changed cause people tranform them to combat sports. Like boxing, its old styles (pugilism) was a complete martial art with punch, kick, grappling and weapons techniques
I guess so. And seems to be the truth
The Japanese destroied Karate to give it a try against the boxe
Kinda like how the Olympics destroyed Judo?
Pretty much, if you wanna be more specific it's Japanese normies at the time destroyed karate. Looks like not a whole lot changed.
Your ability to tell stories is phenomenal and captivating. I was engrossed through the whole tale.
That's fascinating, and really well told. I hadn't realised the reason why karate expanded from Okinawa to mainland Japan, and the changes to karate as a result.
Sadly, what we know of as boxing is also incomplete. Boxing used to include forearms, elbows, kicks, and throws.
So like kickboxing?
@@nerychristian Well, in terms of what was legal and illegal, it was somewhat similar to modern kickboxing, but it was stylistically more like karate actually, and it was usually bareknuckle. Check out the channel English Martial Arts.
But ‘sadly’ people got seriously injured regularly so the Marquess of Queensbury intervened. Sadly.
Yep, back when it was used as a proper combat martial art in Europe, the combat form of boxing is called pugilism
And head butts
Boxing changed every martial arts who include punch, like muay thai, savate, karate, Kung Fu.
boxing gave birth to a new kind of karate named a kickboxing (American full contact karate (full contact rules) and Japanese karate-boxing (k1 rules))
Yeah, but I feel like some of that was great improvement to the development of the art. Muay Thai and Kung Fu didn't have hands speed like boxers and using the sweet science as a foundation for the development of the sport helped develop them as a martial art in my opinion
@@y.y.47 I think Japanese kickboxing comes from Seidokaikan karate borrowing a Muay Thai like ruleset (but not as many of the Thai techniques), as that style was created by one of the Kyokushin guys who fought in Thailand. Interesting history there
But i think that boxing absorbing all kind of punching technique from other martial arts 🤔
I thinking the most important thing in boxing changed all martial arts is gloves. Gloves made punches training more safety. More sparring, more fight experience. Its change all in fight vision, in perception.
Seriously Thanks to you Sensei , your immense knowledge has opened my eyes. You are just great.
Wow❤ I loved this Sensei! Complete the picture!❤ My favorite video of yours!
Boxing combinations make 90% of blocks ineffective.
Because you don't usually block punches at medium distance (typical for boxing distance). Sensei Oliver Enkamp (MMA) beautifully explained the matter of distances in one of Jesse's other videos. In short - karate uses long distance, boxing medium distance and there's short distance (clinch) - judo, BJJ, wrestling etc.
Who asked you?
@@chivasanada7610 Sensei Jesse liked and appreciated my comment. Assuming you're a black belt, incorporate wrestling, western boxing and kickboxing into your arsenal. You really only need to do your katas and basics once a month, assuming you have them all plus a working knowledge of bunkai. Spar as much as you can.
You're Welcome.
@@kempo79 kyokushin karate uses short distance
@Deanoss Last Karate has short, medium and long range striking--- I am not going to fall for the boxers sequence, I am going in and out ---and will employ all parts of my body (knees, elbows, low kicks to knees or hamstrings followed by open palms, or precise striking ) if am engaged in an altercation with a boxer-- conversely the boxer will jab, hook, uppercut, cross xyzzy (not necessarily in that sequence)-- maybe get in and get out --- I believe both methods of fighting (boxing or karate) are effective for self defense --- get in get out and move out ---peace
What I love about Jesse is that he is clearly passionate about Karate - he loves Karate *but* he's critical too. And he's knowledgeable. Strengths. Weaknesses. The lot. I learn something interesting every time. Please keep it up.
He's a smiling troll. He disrespects his own art and it's not good.
@Craig Gibbons he plays into youtube trollism. When did I say I knew it all? He doesn't so much do history as much as he makes he creates click bait. He takes well known info for any historian and finds ways to down play his own art for views.
@@thomasbeall9069 That mindset is dumb. I'm a karateka. I love karate and it made me into who I am today, but I understand that it is highly flawed, specially in modernity. It is dumb to thing it's disrespectful to criticize your own art, as that's the only way to improve it.
@@thomasbeall9069 "disrespects his own art" lmfao, you must be own of those "patriot" types who think "respect" means blind faith, aren't you? Respect is acknowledging the strengths of something, while knowing the weaknesses, and hopefully finding ways to improve said weaknesses. That's respect. The blind faith form of "respect" you're practicing is just plain ignorant.
He didn't criticize it at all, it was more of an excuse saying its not what it was.
I love your videos. You are not just practicing karate, you literally live for karate. ❤️
Thanks that was something new that I learnt about Karate. I always thought Karate was hand to hand combat but when you mentioned weapons that surprised me and was something new because if I'm correct they translate karate as the way of the empty hand or something like that so I'm surprised to hear training and involvements included weapons. I'll look into Karate history more another time, that's some interesting things you'll put out in this video.
This is too true. I first started doing 13 years of Okinawan Karate, where we practiced kihon, kata, kumite, Kobudo and body conditioning. There was hefty Bunkai practice too. The distance of fighting was actually quite close. I was told that until an attacker (we assume, not armed with a gun) was in danger range, you could just make distance between yourself and the other guy, until you had no choice but to fight up close. Fast forward many years later, I started doing JKA Shotokan and noticed that the distance became like "fist Kendo". The fighting distance was like 6 or 7 feet now. No more Kobudo and very little Bunkai either. Now, doing BJJ, my coach would say create distance; if he gets close, back up. Until you have no choice but to fight, then CLOSE the distance to you are in your opponent's face. JKA Shotokan has no real answer to "up in your face" encounter. Shotokan gutted all the other good stuff originally practiced in Okinawan Karate. You may disagree, as theses are my own observations and opinions.
check out Ian Abernathy he teaches the truth bunkai of kata from shotokan and shito-ryu the throws the locks the griping the grappling is all in the kata u just need to understand it's application.
I really enjoy Jesse but sempai Ian is light years ahead of him
HIGHLY agree!
Boxing took my karate to entirely new level that even blew my mind when i first put it all together.
Thanks for uploading this video 😊
One of the best videos in this series. Thank you!
I remember practicing all of these techniques and when it was time to spar, everyone assumed a boxing stance. You always had to be good with your hands. It's fundamental. Even brothers who went to prison, when they came home, they had this arkward style of boxing called the 52 hand blocks. That stuff was serious. Put a lot of cats to sleep.
I love your channel.
In our Shotokan organization, Tsutomu Ohshima SKA, the curriculum includes torite, nage waza, atemi waza, etc. Sumo like grappling is also included, especially as part of children instruction. There is no ground grappling, so some dojos actually began cross training with BJJ. Some dojos also include some weapon (kobudo) training. As for boxing destroying karate... well, in this COVid 19 times 😯... I'm watching a lot of boxing instruction videos, and I'm actually learning A LOT from them, getting a better understanding of close range fighting, slipping, dodging, angles for strike and evasion, and so on, that are ALL hiding in our katas. Very interesting video
@Conexus X18 You didn't understand the point, when he mentioned that boxing destroyed karate, it was that after the boxing exhibition, the base of karate was changed, it stopped following the root to become a kicked boxing
SKA represent!
@Conexus X18 It's not about that. What Jesse-san means by _boxing destroyed karate_ is that the karate that Funakoshi Gichin introduced only had punches and kicks, when it should be more than that.
@@chinolatino9663 it is not evolution, it was a forced change by the government, also i don't mention china '-'
Thank you
My father was a boxer and a karate fighter in the ring in his youth in the 60's
It always stuck in my mind how he could use two parts and make it one for any situation.
Brilliant video, it's so great to hear about the history of martial arts.
Glad you enjoyed it
The arbitrary limitations of boxing (only hitting with knuckles), this actually has encouraged incredible innovation over time to get around these limitations.
This is why ‘hand fighting’ and punching ability in MMA and other, more complex styles, is ironically much more simple and underdeveloped compared to boxing.
Watch zabit magomedsharipov vs Kyle bochniak, amazing fight, shows just how good boxing alone can be against MMA with kicks and grappling. And bochniak isn’t even as good as a lot of pro boxers.
Sadly, the video is unavailable ("private") on You Tube etc.
yeah but bochniak has decent levels of grappling to at least defend against zabit and force the fight into where he can employ his boxing whereas a pure boxer could never actually force you into engaging him in boxing in the first place. he could not defend basic grappling and likely taken down then chocked out pretty swiftly by someone like zabit or straight head/ leg kicked into the shadow realm hah. i've loved watching mma through the years of pitching varying fighting styles against each other and i'm kinda saddened that mma has become more of a focused discipline itself. many fighters coming through now just trained mma from the start without competing or training in related combat sports or martial art.
Bochniak had some experience and training with grappling though, which most boxers dont. Mike Tyson himself has said that even if he were still in his prime, he wouldnt last long against an MMA fighter since he wouldnt have any answer to throws and rolls
Boxers tend to do well in MMA provided they train a bit extra for dealing with grappling and groundfighting. MMA fighters dont do so well in boxing on the other hand because most of their toolset theyve honed isnt usable
@@BroadwayRonMexico yeah boxers that do well in MMA are usually bcuz they have some extra training in other forms of fighting in the first place, if they only know boxing and only uses boxing in an MMA fight they would be utterly destroyed by their opponents who know more varieties of combat forms than just boxing
A boxing skillset alone isn't enough in MMA.
But all MMA fighters will train boxing if they seriously want good hands. The specialised skillset you get from boxing makes it the absolute best at that. If you diluted it with half arsed grappling and kicks, you dilute the cross training potential.
I practice shotokan and the open hand techniques as well as the grapping, throwing, strangling... are still there, mostly in the bunkai. It's just a question of focus: shotokan mainly focus on percussion technique while projection and submission techniques are less practiced. And the main reason for it is time: most karateka outside Japan do only 2/3 hours of Karate per week, it is simply not possible to do everything in such short time. The real problem with sport-karate is when the techniques aim to be beautiful and not to be effective (with the very wide and low stance for example).
If you look at Funakoshi’s early work, it’s all there! 👍 But... later he wrote: “Times change, the world changes, and obviously the martial arts must change too. The karate that high school students practise today is not the same karate that was practised even are recently as ten years ago, and it is a long way indeed from the karate I learned when I was a child in Okinawa”.
@Condé Turenne tournament karate is still karate, so it can still be trained and applied to self-defense situations.
@@KARATEbyJesse O problema do karate que Funakoshi apresento no Japão nos primeiros tempos, era porque Funakoshi teve de lhe dar uma imagem mais didáctica ou o imperador e o ministro da educação nunca teriam aceite a sua pratica na escola primaria e universidade ...
We keep sports karate practice to a separate day and as a sideline to normal self defense practice.
@@PAULOSILVA-fe4zs What?
I love karate's history, it is something that makes me calm. Can you do more of history vids
I practiced Kyokushin karate and now I'm into boxing. Kyokushin was an incredible experience; I loved the intense training, the environment, and the people. I was improving steadily, but the only issue I had was with kata and other traditional aspects that we practiced most weeks. While it was amazing, I craved actual fighting. I wanted to spar, not necessarily every day, but at least once or twice a week. Unfortunately, my karate gym lacked regular sparring opportunities; we only did light sparring once every 2 to 3 weeks. If I had started earlier, perhaps at 18, I might have stuck with karate. But being 23 now and juggling two jobs, I couldn't afford to waste time.
I recently took up boxing, and it's pure chaos - and I love it. Training with Olympic-level coaches has given me a broader perspective on this sport. They truly understand the sweet science of boxing. We're taking it one step at a time, with a strong emphasis on regular light sparring a few times a week.
When comparing karate and boxing, in close combat situations, boxing is definitely more effective. However, if a karate practitioner has experience, can handle pressure, and incorporates movement and kicks, I would lean towards Kyokushin. Kyokushin practitioners are incredibly tough, although they lack emphasis on head punches.
This history lesson gave so much answers. Suddenly all makes sense. Every Karate pacticioners should defenetily know these historical facts of karate, so they could have more perspective. In this time, it seems, that mr. Enkamp is doing best job with teaching that. Thank you!
@Abu Ali al-Husayn ibn Abdillah ibn Sina Well, that's because it hasn't evolved in mainstream since then due to its absence, and that's completely normal. I'd imagine that if grappling techniques were brought back into mainstream karate, it would be tailored to compete against the fighting styles in the modern day.
I swear, Martial art history is one of the best thing in human history !
I love Sensei Jesse and learned a lot from him.
I adapted my karate quite well to only hands for my gym tier at the time.
All the dachis help you to know where you're at and how to play in between them and learn what different angular punches complement the stances.
It's nice to not have to worry about leg kicks for once and just be able to sometimes shell up and sit into punches.
You just got to remember you can give and take way different angles with punches now, ( Beware of the overhand) ( learning a reverse Ridge hand chop really helps you learn how to do an overhand) parrying and cross-block helps much. When kicks are involved, it's proclivity to rely on darting in and out with 1/2's and reverse straight punch and keep your distance and rely of being the superior fencer or counter'er with kicks when the other guy ain't karate or TKD, but now you can dirty box, use your karate agility to out jab them, and take a break and shell up without worrying about getting kicked in the legs
Always soo interesting your stories! Amazing job u did there! Anyway it reminds me of the history of Taekwondo. Taekwondo also share the same root with Karate.. but unfortunately is even more incomplete than Karate nowadays! Such a pity!
I got really surprised when you said The the name Jack Dempsey.
My favorite boxer :)
Very cool video man. History is so important and interesting
Absolutely! Thanks a lot 🙏
I love Dempsy's book.
Ramsey Dewey's favorite boxer, too.
THAT is fer darn sure 👍
@@GrizzlyHansen , i had that book a small like " pamphlet ", almost that was pretty well articulated as i recall
So apparently that "boxing match" was pro wrestling match, cause man that fought Choki was Jan Kentel, pro wrestler that never boxed. Pretty sad
Yeah, just that “he swinged his hand” seemed to me that this guy never boxed before.
Yeah that swing that was mentioned realy doesnt sound something a skillfull boxer or pugilist from that era would do. Hate brake it to folks but real boxer would have caused far more problems for our master karateka.
I seen modern matches of Boxers against karatekas and for the most part the Boxers always win
Yeah just old school propaganda
@@joaquinflores3547 I seen modern matches of Boxers against karatekas and for the most part the karatekas always win.
Thank you very much Jesse Enkampf, for your awesome, indepth but concise story telling. Exciting and not too superficial for its length. Came here from the other video and I thinnk it's a very nice unique video style that I have not seen yet, very nice. 🥊
Thanks for enlightning about Motobu Choki, the true Karate, and that hilarious news article showing the JP karate fighter winning instead of him, a giant lying world and politics, as you made clear Motobu wasn't trained well in, in the other video. I'm also thinking with this true Karati style, perhaps the famous JP karate fighter who challenged Bruce Lee would have had more success (but he had got defeated one-sidedly), of course now more understandable 🥋
what a great series of videos. I love the history!
Esse canal é de uma riqueza sem precedentes. Iniciei recentemente a prática do karatê, e ainda sou 7 kyu (faixa branca). Sei que o caminho é longo, e seu canal tem me motivado ainda mais a estudar e melhorar no estudo dessa arte marcial tão rica. Mesmo que o Karatê moderno esteja longe do que foi antes da modernização, ainda assim, é, sem dúvida alguma, edificante e prazerosa de se praticar. Obrigado pela legenda em português e continue esse trabalho espetacular em prol do karatê.
vc precisa tocar um.metal epico
Sopasumacaco una delicia
Penso igual mano
Facccs
"When your only tool is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail."
This might just be the smartest thing I've heard in a long time. You're a mini Mister Miyagi, Jesse😁
Just a simple Karate Nerd 🥋 Thanks for your kind words! 🙏
Kyle Broflovski
If you've never heard that before, you are truly an ignorant man. Have you been living on a desert island?
@@quabledistocficklepo3597 based on Broflovski name, he is likely a non-English-speaker, so it makes sense that he didn't know some common idioms. No need to be harsh on him.
Quabledistocficklepo bruh it was a complement so relax your self
@@anhtran6113
No, you also live under a rock. Kyle broflovski is a South Park character.
Today my first day in yout channel and I like its content so much .plus you are very respectful and humble man..true manner of martial artist ..you earned a new subscriber
Sempre tive essa impressão do karatê ser uma arte incrível com uma sensação de ineficiência. Essa história me mostrou que realmente o Karatê é muito mais do que parece ser.
JESSE I used to think Karate is a meme. But your videos made me respect this beautiful art
Love this story! Learning a lot of new (I guess old?) things about Karate that sheds light on its true form and purpose. I've been binge watching your content for days now haha!
Great episode! Thank you!
Very interesting thank you. Eager to see the video of the Funakoshi vs. Motobu encounter/fight 👍👍👍 There is a similar misunderstanding with taekkyeon which has lots of techniques for real fighting and not just kicks and sweeps.
I feel that human nature's "easy route" destroys many martial arts too. Look at Judos ruleset nowadays. Very conditioned, very safe. Limited. (I'm not knocking the art. I love Judo!)
Another great video Jesse. A true professional at what you do 👊🏻🔥
Because many MA was turned to regular sport. Normal MA was meant mostly for real fight (if not for killing), havent flashy moves, have dirty (by sport standards) moves.
That tends to happen when you turn something from a practical combat art into a regulated sport. The latter CAN'T be fully effective since part of the goal is to limit harm to the competitors. Modern fencing, I think, showcases this very well. I do think that it's important for most styles to delineate between and preserve both "full combat" and a "for competition" versions of themselves. You attract new students with the safer competitions, but maintain a fuller, more practical version of the style in the schools, so that the full art is not lost.
@@kilerog And we have a few problem here:
1. How many peoples really know full art? Pre 20th century version, which was used for life-and-death battle.
2. I dont think any goverment will support teaching of non-sport MA for regular civilians.
3. MA now is business. You can easly sell "become a carate-kid by training 3 hours per week" thing, but its very hard to sell "you will need to work realy hard almost every day, sparring is potentially dangerous, you most likely will go to prison if you will use those tecnics outside gym".
Of course it's human nature to avoid getting injured in training or disabled in a tournament. That's not an easy route, that's chosing health over perfection. Apart from that, there are still enough injuries happening in Judo randori.
Judo banned morote Gari, the double leg takedown.
Whoaa!!! I love these karate history videos!! It makes studying the art so much more interesting!!! Thanks for this sensei!!😀😀😀
THAT is most assuredly the reason why he puts these together.😑
One of those videos at the end looked like it was a young Nishiyama. I'm ranked in two styles, Tae Kwon Do and Shotokan (JKA). When I first started learning the Koreans taught far better than they do today. Still, not nearly as well as the Japanese taught. The first forms I learned in Tae Kwon Do were the katas from Shotokan. It kind of gives my age away. I must admit, Jesse, this is a story that I've never heard and was a great one. I do thank you for those videos of yours as you always have something valuable to pass along. Since I was also an amateur and professional boxer my insight is far better than most. I got into boxing about seven years after I after I learned karate. I will say that the boxing made my karate better and the karate made my boxing better. However, one must remember that the concepts of generating power in each is greatly different. One must be VERY careful because knowing both can also destroy your ability in the each.
I’m so glad I found this channel, because I’ve been into martial arts for most of my life and I STILL thought karate was simply the way of the fist and nothing more.
Jesse, eu definitivamente virei seu fã. Não sou praticante de karatê, pratico muay thai, porém sou muito interessado na história e filosofia de todas as artes marciais. Adorei seu canal e espero que continue trazendo mais conteúdos históricos. Parabéns
Guys....
I just love martial arts SO much. From when I first started boxing after I finished high school to know where I am currently learning Taekwondo. This video just gives me even MORE pride into the arts that I have learned.
Excellent documentary Jesse, full of stuff I didn't know.
Jesse, great video, this is why i ended up training in Kenpo Karate as it has all the kicks & hand strikes but also sweeps, throws, joint locks, breaks etc. And even has some element of Kung Fu as well! I would like to know your feedback on some of the Kenpo styles around today! !st Dan Kenpo Karate.
Thank you for this video, I'm almost 40 yrs old, my grandfather told us when we were young that the Karate we learned back in the days was not complete. He was born in Japan in 1911 and came to Vietnam and married my grandmother, I never understood it. What he taught us is quite similar to today but a lot more that I do not see in in modern Karate.... I never really dive deep or care due to the busy lifestyle in the West, now I got some time to get back to martial arts, but this video really makes sense. Very informative and educational! Thank you!
No soy un fanatico del Karate, obvio siempre lo respete, pero estos videos de Jesse me han generado un gran curiosidad. La forma objetiva de explicar los diferentes temas es de admirar! Saludos desde Argentina y sigue asi Jesse.
Jesse's videos never disappoint!!
Really nice info. I was into Karate a few years back. Started to train Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu this year. Looking foward to evolve both skills.
Thank you Jesse for giving this history lesson about Karate. My heart always told me that karate is much more than that we currently think it to be. Sadly it is being ridiculed as an inefficient martial arts.
Inefficient martial arts?
@@SeriesofClu ?
@@SeriesofClu it allegedly doesn't deliver what it's supposed to
Great. Thanks for sharing. Love the channel
Hey Jesse, thanks to you my boys have developed a passion for karate ❤ thank you
Great video with interesting history! After many years I’ve realized that people emphasize the ‘differences’ of martial arts instead of looking for the commonalities and practical application. Whether Daito Ryu Aiki Jujutsu, Okinawan Karate (Goju, Shoto, Kyoku) or HEMA - the body moves the same way and the joints lock the same way in Europe or in Asia. Different styles evolve similar techniques, because the building blocks are the same. The first time I saw a HEMA sword takedown I thought “that’s Osoto Gari!”
Much respect - thank you for the great content.
This is a really wonderful breakdown and dissertation on the development of Karate. Matt Thornton - the founder of Straight Blast Gym, said in another video that he believes Wing Chun was developed as a response to traditional English boxing. Not necessarily to try and beat it or make more Chinese people practice a Chinese martial art, but because the founder wanted a style LIKE boxing, and Wing Chun was the result.
Wing Chun is a more striking based derivative white crane style from southern China.
Disagree. Wing chun was developed by a women.
Your story telling skills are awesome.
But at the end of the day I'm still learning more about karate especially from your channel very good channel, isn't there a difference between karate for self-defense and karate for sport I believe that if you doing karate for self-defense wouldn't it be all around...?