How to Calculate Spoke Length!
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- čas přidán 18. 01. 2020
- A simple and reliable way to calculate spoke length for your next wheel build. It even works for fat bikes and non published dimensions!
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Very happy with my 2 wheel sets and Dynamo wheel Chris built! Solid!
Thanks Eric!!
Another great tutorial!! Thank you for taking the time to share what works in the shop!
Thanks Julian!
Thank you for the video! I found it really helped and you are a great host!
Thank you!
finally, i found it.. thank you for making this video.. thank you sooo much
Happy it helped!
Didnt know you had this video, thanks
Great tutorials!.....Subscribed....
Thanks!!
Thank you! very helpful... I like your approach... "Measure your own"
Happy to help! Its amazing how often manufacturers list the wrong ERD for their own rims. Just the other day I had one that measured 4mm different from their claimed ERD.
Hey bro thanks a lot man I you have a great skill for teaching I loved the video I finally got it I think are dam close
Thanks Doniel! I hope to get the time to put out more videos here soon but things have been pretty busy lately.
Very interesting...
0:45 well, if someone decides he wants his spokes to end up at the very top and after calculating spoke length he rounds up the size for 0.5 or more, then he seriously risks running out of threads, because the spoke thread length is 9mm, while the nipple thread is 8.3 mm. So, only 0.7 mm of thread left for truing operations. Consider also the fact, that some spokes as butted ones stretch more after final tension.
Most of the spokes we use are closer to 10mm of thread so if your measurements are accurate and you round up 0.5mm you still have plenty of room for slight variances. Personally I would rather have my spokes be slightly too long than too short as well.
@@ChrisMurrayEWC today I was building a wheel with Sapim Leader 2.0, the thread length was 9mm exactly, however, some DT Swiss custom aero spokes recently removed from an old wheelset had 10mm thread. I would like to know which spokes of yours have 10mm? Thanks.
@@atexnik I don't measure most of them to be fair as we typically use unthreaded blanks and our spoke machine adds 10mm of thread. It does seem to vary a bit depending on model/brand though.
Perfect!
Thanks!
Hi chris when im measuring the center to flange do i meaure to the inside, outside or center if the flange? The flange itself is about 3mm thick. I had the impression I should just measure to the inside Thanks.
I usually just measure to the middle of the flange but center to flange wont make drastic shifts in spoke length so you can probably get away with anywhere on the flange.
Curious to hear your thoughts on rounding up or down at certain decimal points. I found it interesting that the DT swiss calculator rounded down for a spoke with a decimal of .3 but rounded up when the decimal was .4 (example 288.3 they said to use 288 but 288.4 they said to use 289).
Cheers
Sorry I somehow missed your comment originally. Personally I like to round up rather than down where possible as a longer spoke wont hurt the durability of the wheel as long as you do not run out of spoke thread but a shorter spoke can weaken the spoke nipple if you go too short.
That was excellent. Thanks
Thanks for watching!
@@ChrisMurrayEWC I have a cracked rear Easton R4s road hub on one wheel, and a used Easton Echo hub from another wheel. Each has different rim depths and the hub flanges are different so I was trying to see if I can re-use some of the spokes for a rebuild. Your video should help me sort that out. Maybe I'm going to need all new spokes
@@WowRixter You most likely will need new spokes. If they are traditional J-Bend you can just follow the steps exactly in the video. If they are a straight pull spoke you can check out the "user defined" option on the DT Swiss spoke calculator. Measuring the rim ERD will be the same either way. Have fun with the build!
@@ChrisMurrayEWC They are straight pull. Thx for the tip
@@WowRixter Hope it helps! It's always satisfying making stuff like that work.
Really helpful thank you. I was wondering about how to deal with the hole offset and you explained it!.
May Jesus Christ bless you and your family
Happy to help!
Hey Chris, could you give me some insight into how to measure spoke length for straight pull hubs especially if it's a no name hub. Thanks.
Hey! Unfortunately I don't have any tricks and even in talking to people at much bigger wheel companies, even they don't have an accurate option. DT Swiss has a calculator that is supposed to work with other brands straight pull hubs and it is usually pretty close but it's not always accurate.
Hey Chris! Thanks for this tutorial. A question though. When my wheelset was built the mechanic chose the longest spokes to install. It was 275mm for my 27.5 rims. When it was done some spokes were peeking from the nipples (probably a millimetre or two ). Is still fine that way? I plan to build my next wheels myself but I don't have tools to cut and re-thread the spokes so I'm currently discouraged.
Thanks for watching! 1-2mm is perfectly safe as long as its not threaded so far in that you have run out of spoke threads. I think that typically starts around 2-3mm on most spokes/nipples.
Most of the spokes' thread length is 9mm, while standard brass nipple thread length is 8.3mm. Now, if the spokes protrudes for about 1mm, then it means you're at the bottom of the spoke thread, but for 2mm you most probably run out of thread, which means the spoke has eaten up first few tips of the thread inside the brass nipple because steel is harder than brass. That's not a big deal, but I generally avoid overrunning threads. You might want to watch Bill Mould's video on optimal spoke length, he has some thoughts about this.
@@ChrisMurrayEWC it starts at 0.7mm of spoke protrusion over the nipple top.
Very informative ........do you ship spokes or rather complete wheel to canada.....thanks for the vid and pleasant riding to you
Thanks! We can ship spokes to Canada if you would like. Feel free to email me through my website to get that started. Once part availability becomes better I hope to do something more formal with selling wheel building parts too.
Is spoke length measured from top of j-bend or center? Similarly, measure to center of spoke hole or top to get flange diameter? Potential error of a couple of mm there because different spoke calculators use different criteria. Your method of measuring to bottom of screw slot gives a lower bound on ERD. Safer than measuring to top of slot which can often result in spokes being a bit too long - even though most builders would prefer to have all the threads taken up by the spoke - can make a difference for Al nipples. Don't want to appear pernickety but these topics are worth mentioning and do make a difference for marginal cases.
When measuring ERD I just hook the caliper over the inside edges of the spokes and things have always come out spot on. As far as measuring flange diameter I always go to the center of the spoke hole. Thanks for watching!
Hey Chris, Great detailed Video as always,Thanks. Quick Q for ya. Bought myself a pair or 29" I9 Enduro S rims with Straightpull hubs/spokes. Now looking on I9 website they list the SP spokes needed as 303mm, so that would be 606mm total ERD? Yet the ERD number on the rim is 597mm. I would of thought it would be 299mm spoke length that I needed OR is the reason for the extra 4mm per spoke because they are straightpull ? Reason I am asking this is because I am thinking about having a go at swopping the 157mm S spoke rear to a 148mm and J bent hub/spokes.
Glad it was helpful Ian! Honestly, with straight pull spokes I am convinced most calculators are just educated guesses as I have not had nearly the same consistency with them like I do calculators for j-bend hubs. The difference in length between the two spoke types will definitely be significantly different but personally I would just measure the ERD on the rim and do my calculation for the j-bend hub and not compare it to the numbers of their straight pull option. If you are trying to avoid downtime you can definitely run with the listed ERD from I9 and that should be pretty close. Thanks Ian!
@@ChrisMurrayEWC I ended up with a good deal on used wheels set and as I had a rear hub I tried hub swop which took me hrs because I thought Id be smart and slowly remove a spoke at a time and swop each one onto new hub and then onto the rim as it slowly had less and less spokes in it, yer that was a bad idea. Haha. First I wrote down all the spokes tensions also stupidly thinking that I could just retighten them upto the same tensions, WRONG. lh SIDE 18-20, RH Drive side 21-23. Ended up with a spinning rim like a bent pringle. Haha. So now have it alot better but still not right but am already upto 24 on RH side spokes which is way above the rim makers max recommended 125kgf and don't want to go any higher. P.S merry Christmas Chris ;)
@@IMac8939 This is how we learn! I definitely wouldn't go over 125kgf if you can avoid it. Merry Christmas to you as well!
For a 20 inch wheel what factors determine the amount of crossing ? I noticed on my tadpole trike the front steering wheels are 2 cross and the aft wheel is 3 cross .
It's mostly dependent on spoke count and hub flange diameter. Typically 2x works well for 24/28 hole and 3x works well for 32/36 hole but there are always variations there.
@@ChrisMurrayEWC does rim diameter play a role when choosing 2x or 3x ..
@@normandgallant8106 If it is a very deep rim it can make a difference but that is mostly with carbon race wheels. There are some out there for recumbents though that will need you to adjust but they are rare.
Got lost on the fat bike calc. Are fb hubs standard flange/flange width or a wider fat bike width (in general)? I have been using prowheelbuilder as a calculator.
Fatbike hub flange diameter tends to be about the same but the center to flange measurement is much wider. To account for the wide offset at the rim fatbikes typically have you measure from the centerline of the rim to the center of the spoke hole to get your offset. Now when you type in your hub measurements into the spoke calculator, subtract that offset from your center to flange measurement on each side and your spoke length should work out correct.
@@ChrisMurrayEWC okay. Thank you for helping. Makes more sense now.
@@bob-ny6kn Happy it helped!
Hey Chris, can you use the offset also on asymmetrical rims or do you have another good tip on how to calculate it there. the +1mm and -1mm trick doesn't a 100% feel right to me.
The most accurate way is definitely to take the offset and adjust the center to flange measurements in your spoke calculator. So if the rim is offset 5 mm towards the NDS, you would subtract 5mm from the NDS measurement and add 5mm to the DS. Hopefully that makes sense?
@@ChrisMurrayEWC Thanks a lot also for the quick reply! So I rather do that where I put the numbers of the flange than in the offset when I use the QBP spoke calculator if I understand you right?
@@munrowheels no problem! I prefer to make the adjustment at the center to flange measurement as I feel I have more control, the offset option usually works fine but I dont entirely trust it but that lack of trust is most likely an irrational fear on my end.
@@ChrisMurrayEWC Haha :)
When the spoke holes are not in one line I'd guess you take the center between those holes as the offset, right?
@@munrowheels When taking that measurement to remove/adjust center to flange dimensions you will want to measure that offset from the center of the rim or if you measure spoke hole to spoke hole you can divide that by 2 and use that number.
Does your company sell 24" wheel black titanium spokes?
Unfortunately our suppliers only carry silver titanium spokes.
Why did you subtract 10mm for the 50mm (offset)?
That was a hypothetical adjustment if you were using fatbike rims where the spoke holes on the rim were offset from the centerline of the rim. If you rim does not have offset you do not need to make any adjustments there.
Can I use any spoke length to find the ERD?
Yep! So if you are using a 250 mm spoke you would do 250+250 +/- whatever the gap or overlap is.
@@ChrisMurrayEWC - I have a technical question for you, so I have this Giant front wheel sitting for a long time and I decided to rebuild it and make it as 15x100, the hub that came with it has a 55mm Flange on both sides and uses 271mm 32 hole spokes all over, so I bought this front hub its a DTswiss 350 6screws 32hole, on the left side is 55mm and the right side is 50mm w/ 20mm left center and 33.5 right center. So then I did all the measurement in your video clip and the QBP gave me 273 on the left and 275 on the right.
My question is why did QBP gave me 273mm on the left when the original hub uses 271mm all over? am I suppose to deduct 2mm on both sides? am I missing something here?
@@rhawr any changes in hub dimensions can definitely change required spoke length and a 2mm difference between drive side and non drive side is pretty common. There are a couple things that could be throwing it off, if the rim is asymmetric that could even out the two lengths a bit but as bad as this sounds for the manufacturer, its not uncommon that a company will build wheels with the incorrect length of spokes to make inventory levels easier to manage. Hope this helps!
Must you apply the cross rule or you can apply 3 crosses universally
The number of crosses will vary a bit based on spoke count and part dimensions but for the most part, 28/32/36/40/48 hole wheels can all work with 3 cross but above 36 it is usually best to add an additional cross.
@@ChrisMurrayEWC Thanks, it seemed a bit tricky.
@@songsandverses It's easy to get confused as there is a lot of conflicting info but its not too bad once you build a few wheels. Feel free to reach out at any point with questions. Thanks!
@@ChrisMurrayEWC I have built a few, your pointers are helpful
you dont mention if the lenght is from the base of j hook till the end of the spoke,added the threaded portion, or before the threaded portion
The length of the spoke runs from the base of the j hook to the very end of the threaded portion of the spoke.
@@ChrisMurrayEWC thank you very much!
@@chronoZ750 Thank you!
I like you.
I like you too!
spoke size :
rim dia
rim off set
hub dia
hub center 2 flange
lacing type