RC CAR Cheat or are they just Good
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- čas přidán 21. 06. 2024
- Are they cheating or are they just better drivers... Mark and Carl finally back to London when they popalong to the amazing iconic cup. This competitions see's 120 drivers racing at 6 fantastic venues across the UK. This Tamiya event has to be one of the best and biggest Tamiya race series in the world. But there are a few drivers that are just better than everyone else and it seems their cars are quicker than the rest ... we dod some race analysis and see where they are winning.
This year the Iconic cup will be visiting :
MENDIP - BROXTOWE - CARLISLE - WEST LONDON - SOUTH HANTS - HALIFAX
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#iconiccup
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Waste of money on TT01 video :
• Wasting money on RC cars
TT01 setup video:
• RC Car speed secrets a... - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Some people can really drive.Some people can really setup a car.And the you get a few who can seriously do both. And they are allways a pleasure to watch.
true
@@davemacaulay5487 yes, I totally agree, and you need sponsorship to get the great motor/battery.
When the scr1400 came out, I was already a few years into optimizing zapping cells and had my procedure down pretty good. I got 36 new cells and properly cycled them, zapped (75v 58,000uF 4,000 amp pulse) at the correct SoC, cap check and ranked my cells 1 to 36, top 6 was my A main pack and so on. The majority of people thought I was cheating with motor mods, over 3 years I had 24 motors popped and paid for. They looking in the wrong place, great advantage.
Great video and kudos for all the editing work involved in producing it. We have drivers in our carpet club who you'd think were running a slot car as their lines are so close lap after lap
@@heady2008 12th carpet was where I got good and shined, great memories. Then 10th scale came out and ruined it. Was 8 minutes, 3 qual and main for 32 minutes, now 4 minutes, 2 qual and main = 12 minutes total
Nice comparison. If you run wide on a few corners (maybe trying to take them too fast) and you lose 5m per lap (or travel 5m further) - over a 20 lap race that's 100m lost....the fast guys are usually the most consistent.......
true that
Another advantage I came up with in 1982, they started parking lot racing when our permanent track closed, tracktion was low. So I went back the next day and played with everything I could find under the sink and in the garage, I got something working better but it was not great. When home and saw an old rotary phone and remembered the sticky goo that was inside a module, holy cow, it was too sticky, ended up thinning it to about 27% and was hooked up and game over for the comp. Over the next three years I still tried other things and the Coppertone 15 was the bomb, we used RIT dye and a fragrance to disguise it, another advantage.
Similar was the diff, using grade-9 bearing and some special (at that time) grease, the diff was locked but ultra free providing more rear grip, thus allowing softer front springs for more steering, and more cornering speed.
T-Bar, I love AE pan cars, specially 12th scale. The T-bar was a pain to change, so i made an adjustable one, I slimmed the stock thin one to a slight hour-glass shape (softening the roll stiffness), then under it I added a bottom and top fiberglass plates. The bottom I epoxied a nyloc nut on it, then used a hex bolt from the top with a spring through the 3 plates. It was awesome, simply dialed the rear roll stiffness with the body on for the track conditions. I would burn some laps, pull over to my buddy and wave witch way and how much to turn it with sign language and hit the track again, so efficient, I could not see how to dial the car without it.
My PGR chart I made in 1981, Pinion to Ground Ratio (now its called roll out), but it was a big difference with different size tires, upto 6 pinion teeth (64 pitch) difference. Yea, I know now, the props just buzz the tires to the size they want and run them once or twice and toss them (such a waist for club racing). Way before proline/CKW came out with more of a foam/rubber longer lasting tire, there was a track (ranch pit stop in CA) that sold more durable tires, and 12th scale, 4 cell, I could get 6 months of racing out of them, and the PGR was a big advantage.
When I started online sim racing, I came up with OD/UD, this is Over drive and Under drive, Since you had to manage tires in the sim (You cant go flat out or your lap times would drop too much, the OD would not only save fuel but the motor would run cooler, so you could run 5% more grill tape (more front down force), then when it was time to put the last~10 hard laps in, down shift to Under drive, witch was now perfect for the slower mid corner speed that the tires was providing. Making a master excel gear chart with the tranny gears and diff gears, you could see where the ratios you wanted to try, no way in the game you can see this, another advantage, of course this was for ovals. I played that sim for 9 years. In the first 4 years I averaged 27 races per week, with an average of 18 minutes per race, all free, that sim really had depth, at the 9 year mark, there was a little less than 500 racers and no competition for me, not fun running away, I like the battles.
Spence is a good driver , even Your Rostrum position can play a part in hitting apex on some corners and not on others.
that is very true ..
Spencer was doing this in pre-brushless days when there was a 27turn stock TC class. Stock has always been about being able to carry the speed. Top drivers are able to hit the lines consistently and have the car set-up to do that. You have to see the difference is between your best lap and your average, tidying things up on the sticks/wheel can bring about the biggest gains in time.
They are faster than me, therefore they must be cheating is probably the oldest item in the drivers excuse book.
he can drive that is for sure
Very interesting vid 😮 May I have a suggestion, maybe try to put the "approximate" split time of each sections of your analysis ? 😇 Keep up the good work 👏
maybe next time
It is all about practice and more practice. When I was a teenager, I raced carts and then when I was in my 20s, I did SCCA racing. The fast guys were always the people with the most seat time on the track. There was one person I carted against who was blazing fast. His family also owned a farm and had made a carting track on the property. He practiced every day. He was good enough to later be sponsored and race in the NASCAR ARCA division.
Today I am old and race RC cars. The fast guys are still the guys who race the most. Not me, between work, family and caring for elderly parents not only do I not race every weekend my practice is race day and that is it. While there are a few that are naturally good at eye hand coordination, most of us need time and practice.
The other fast guy at our RC track is a 62 yrs old. He is retired. He is on the track every day to the point that if the owner needs to leave for some tasks, he runs the shop for free. Practice is important. However, if you are having fun and do not care about winning, you have already won the race. It is Afterall a hobby not a profession.
we are the fun ones
Great video. It's always awkward to realise that you have to eat humble pie sometimes. It's so easy to call out bad tools, when most of the time, it really comes down to setup for the conditions and accurate driving skill.
Keep up the good work
And by watching and analyzing them you can get better yourself.
cheers buddy
I like the indepth video breakdown of the laps. IMO it is better than rhyming off upgrades.
I think Mr A3 abuses the track limits riding the rumbles just before the last corner, where as Mark doesn't. Do that a few times, and the tenths start to stack up. Great racing though Mark.
fine line
Carl tried it in the final and it did not work out
Another awesome video guys, that comparison really highlights the difference the driving line makes 👍
Having track time is the key i think, or. Just having that knack. I have neither 😂 but i have fun. Watching back footage is a great help esp if you can see the faster guys. Ive found myself behind a faster driver and even trying to follow there line, i just cant. So car set up does play a part, esp when your racing off road. One can may ride a bump the other may get a little kick. Great video as allways guys 👌
Cheers buddy
I'm an average driver at best, and sometimes I wonder if other people are perhaps bending the rules, but they are just better than me. It's all down to skill as a driver, and being able to setup the car properly. At the end of the day, as long as you enjoy it, does it matter where you finish?
Regarding batteries: I bought 36 scrc1400 new cells and did my formula I had been working on for years.
1. Easy cycle the cells 6 times, pausing the correct duration at each stage. (watching capacity increase through the cycles)
2. Zap each cell with a 58,000uF cap charged to 70V, this produces a 4,000 amp pulse, this spot welds the internal connections for lower ESR (2 years worth of design/testing to get to this point). The earliest I zapped a pack was 1982, but it was crude setup and was not very consistent.
3. Do a final capacity check and ESR check (not nearly as good as new esr meters today, but it worked, considering this was three and a half decades ago) and match of all the cells, top 6 was the A-main pack and so on.
For the next 3+ years I had a voltage advantage and was called a cheater left and right. Every time pointing wrongly at my motor, they popped 24 of my motors and ended up paying for all of them (they said they would replace my motor, I said no thank you, you pay cash, and they did). About 4 years and they started selling "zapped" packs.
On another note, you guys remember the deans 20A pack discharger with 10 auto tail light bulbs? After your run you connect it up and let it discharge. Well I borrowed one from a friend, and connected up 6 volt meters, one per cell. On awesome packs, it worked well (their is a but, haha), but if the pack was slightly out of balance (either capacity per cell or SoC), then the damn thing was a mess and actually ruined the pack even worse. How? The first cell to die (goto zero volts), then got charged in reverse, just killing your worst cell, making the pack even more out of balance. I made graphs in excel and the MFG wasn't having any of it (hurting sales), making excuses left and right.
I decided to make a much better discharger, single cell matched discharger with display. Brought every cell to 0.6v and the display (5 leds in a bar graph) would show you the ballance.
not to mention now, most modern esc now have the ability to record data on your manufacturers mobile app so you can also analyse the data to see where you can improve and where you are doing well
this was very interesting and made me think about recording my laps and studying my line on the track's many thanks
do it
It would be interesting to do a static video from the rostrum.
And put a ghost layer overlay of different cars to compare the lines.
I might see if i can do it at halifax for a top stock and a bottom stock heat
we have done it before and can do it again.
Spencer told me when I first started the secret to a good lap would come after I did a thousand laps 😁
RC guru stuff right there
Don’t forget spence won the 17.5 TC national at wlrc and has raced there for 20+ yrs. I know as I raced him for most of those years. He could probably drive it with his eyes closed 😂
that is some credentials right there
Nice. Enjoyed split screen. Imagine it took bit more editing work than usual
Not really as just a different layout
There are those who have a knack for setting their car up. There are those who get a lot of time to practice. And unfortunately there, are those who who cheat in very sneaky ways and I have come across quite a few of those people and its sad that they cheat in order to win a plastic trophy....
hahaha
Friend of mine told me a story: a few years ago when he was still racing he won against somebody you could best describe as a "sore loser". The guy even went so far to say that my friend cheated. In the end they tore down both rc cars and found out that the motor the sore loser used was modified and had fewer turns. He literally cheated and couldnt win against somebody playing fair and was entitled enough to call HIM a cheater... some people are unbelievable...
@xXYannuschXx yeah I have a somewhat similar story. Many years ago some friends and I went to Sydney for a gairly big on road race event. One of the classes I entered was the Tamiya Mini class (so all the tamiya M chassis). I could keep pace quite well around the track until I would get onto the pit straight and back straight where I would have the doors blown off my mini by 4 of the local drivers. Everyone would get lapped by them, and you would be haldown the straight and they would just blow right past you like you had your park brake stuck on. A few weeks after the event i found out (and this was when we were using Tamiya sport tuned motors as a control motor) what those cheating bastards were doing was they would get the sport tuned motor and carefully twist the endbell on the can (as it wasn't fixed in place like a johnson motor) and advanced the timing, so instead of getting 23,000rpm out of the motor, they were getting and extra 10,000rpm out of it........🙄
Regarding motors, i made a flywheel dyno in 87, many years before they were sold, i told no one and tested many things, like reluctance vs rpm/torque, brush compounds/cuts/serated, spring tension, bushing/bearing oil, arm config, comm drops (and a hidden reservoir in the brush), to name some. I was cutting comm's long before it was the norm. Since i did not want to bring and show my lathe, i would prep 3 to 5 motors (1 for each run)
As a kid I had the locals show me that trick. I raced stock 17.5 and it would kill old dudes so bad they would come around and check my car. I was like 13
Great vid, loved the track position comparison.
thanks
Really interesting. Keep up the good work.
Will do
Fantastic work you did for this video… 👍👍👍
See ya in South Hants. Gonna also run Sunday only. Looks like a tight track, so keeping clean lines will be even more important.
see you then
Great video and a great start of a series (hopefully 😜)
From my experience in racing a rookie class there these dream teams of sons and dads. Dad as the mechanic gathering all resources of set up tips and techniques bringing stoic thoroughness and precision on the table while son is eager to race and has better reflexes and learning abilities to adapt to better driving.
These teams are unbeatable. And winner of hearts anyway from my view.
Need my son to want to get involved and I will become pit dad
@@PopalongRC yep, same here. Two sons and still trying to get them into RC…
When i ran my m03 at Stafford with the Ferrari Dino shell, I was a lot faster down the straight than the others in my heat, and I reckon that was more down to aero of the bodyshells
shell will defo make a difference
@PopalongRC I was going to run a new Beetle shell, but then saw a video you did about aerodynamics and thought again.
I am intermediate at best but I bet that A3 drivers car has traveled a shorter distance. It doesn’t matter if you have the same speed if you are driving further. He was hitting apexes better on the first half.
excactly that. with such a wide sweeper it is meters of lost ground
Great analysis, we can all learn from this 👍
cheers bud
I remember racing in a car park with my mate. He was absolutely thrashing me. I tried adjusting my car but I couldn't get close. Eventually we swapped cars, he drove mine and I drove his. Unfortunately for me he continued to thrash me. It turns out I'm a crap driver 😂
There is one skill I have yet to master is: patience and throttle control. Patience has something to do with timing in turning and throttle control is how you manage your throttle without braking. I see a lot of my RC professional driver friends do with throttle control whilst I usually brake a lot 😂 And more practice for sure 👌🏻
Well said!
Fantastic big wooden spoon video, love it guys you are nailing it.
Shame it has become what it has but that is a long heated story😅
cheers Lee
Stating the obvious, but set-up is so important. I definitely finish much further up the order when a car behaves despite being an average driver. That A3 car is definitely planted well.
set up and skill sums it up
What a funny comment. Thats the difference between podium and Mark 😂
truth hurts ahahha
Great video again 👍
Thanks again!
At 4:13 the double left, mark is a mile wide, easily losing about ~0.2 seconds in just them turns.
You have to hit the marks (a few inches from the dots) consistently, for the whole run.
Look at your lap times, and how consistent they are, they should be ~0.1 lap to lap (toss them into excel and plot them, your mistake will pop out at you).
If you into improving your driving, My favorite book of all 30+ racing (setup/design/driving) books I have is:
The soft science of road racing motorcycles, it teaches high speed thought, and it works, its about $5 used on ebay.
A motorcycle you need to pay attention to 5 things during racing, cars is only 2, very easy to apply this book knowledge to rc cars (compared to racing motorcycles).
My favorite is 12th scale (rc12lw) carpet on a tight track, 480 seconds and finish your lap, the good tracks we were doing more than 600 turns in a race, got to be consistent.
I have 280+ A main wins, a handful nationals and 2nd at the worlds, I quit in 2004 and did PC sim (not arcade) online racing for 11 years.
Great advice
Will take a look
Nice one, chaps.
Thank you kindly
Really good analysis.
cheers buddy hope to see you trackside soon mate
No practice at South Hants? Thats a brave move 🤣
It’s the Popalong way
Brilliant video
thanks
Our top bloke smashed his awesomatix in half during a heat on one of our pizza night Fridays not so long ago. So he whipped his off road buggy out for the final, pretty sure he won that. There's no substitute for skill.
and were can we get some of this skill you speak of.
You know where, Adur 😀
Let us know when you're coming next and I'll get you a scotch egg that's so good it'll make your hair go curly.
Cheating is common in every type of racing.
Mark tune the car better and keep to the race line keep it clean on track you should know this after lmp 12 scale
Knowing what to do and being able to deliver are two completely different things
Can you do a car overlay like a ghost car in a video game as you would really see the difference in lines.
we have done this in previous videos which works really well but need to have static camera for it to be affective.
and the link to Mark'sTT01 is.....??
now added
Hi Carl. Over able to overlay the 2 images
Yes
Spec is a dirty word and this joke called ‘stock’ is right up there. Mod fixes things.
Oddly enuff i looked at tamiya prospec tt02, priced it out, and laughed at the cost. Another reason i am still out of racing.
-U10
Haha
the lead red car drove straight over the chicane at the end of the lap, made no effort whatsoever to go around it, all 4 wheels off track by a lot,looks like cheating to me tbh.Thast must give a huge increase in speed along the straight.
As both cars top out quite earlyOn the straight cars are evenly matched but it was the speed into the straight that was significantly different ..
@@PopalongRC yeah that was what i was trying to say top speed over all the straight rather than part of it, due to higher entry speed from not reducing speed to take the corner.Speed meaning overall elapsed time along the straight.cheating.
you could be the best driver in the world , but the car has to better any drivers ability the way the whole car can handle a track at any speed , and instant transmitter / receiver / servo control . Some RC'S handle like they are on rails , and they don't even posses ground effect down force . Yep , your car has to be as top notch a performer as is absolutely possible , as well as a control driver getting the very best lap control out of a car on any lap scenario . The car has to be a high tech technical tour de force round any track . The Performance of a bad car isn't going to best a good car on a track either . For example , We all know that a stock tamiya TT-02 chassis is a pretty dire wonky loose parts package , and you can't really make an excellent technical works racing car tour de force out of a sows ear of RC package 🤔 . In racing , absolutely everything about a cars whole performance as well as a driver absolutely matters . Think formula one performance , but with AN OUTSTANDING RC 🤔 . Nothing comes for free , takes engineering time , and money 🤔 . Is this overkill ? , in racing , ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IS OVERKILL 🤔 .
Your not wrong
I raced mini stock in 1992 and lads were cheating. Embarrassing they all got caught 😳
hahaha
@@PopalongRC imagine getting caught ffs x
We stick well within the rules as it is not a good look