Max point blank range zero- the best zero for your rifle?
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- čas přidán 28. 07. 2024
- Let's take an in depth look at the concept of max point blank range zero. In this video I'll explain the theory behind the zero, how it works and how to determine your specific max point blank zero distance. Then we'll hit the range and gather some real world performance data for my selected zero. MPBR is a great tool for engaging shorter range unknown distance targets as it allows you to hold center of the target and know that your round is going to land within the specified vital zone.
Instagram: MountainsMulletsMerica
00:00 Intro
00:42 Battle zero vs MPBR
02:43 MPBR concept
04:33 Gear review
06:53 How to determine MPBR
12:03 Live fire testing
17:57 Results review
22:43 Summary comments
24:40 Closing comments - Sport
Dude easily my favorite channel. No over hyped videos pushing bad info/habits, but just being a down to earth dude and sharing knowledge. Really good stuff. Keep it up!
Agreed
Love to hear you’re enjoying the content! Just a regularly guy out here trying to create content that not only provides entertainment but also some kind of valuable takeaway in each video. Lots of fresh content in the works this year so hope you’ll stay tuned and don’t forget to share with your buddies!
@@MountainsMulletsMerica Already shared it with 2 today.
And my 6arc build is almost done. Boom!
Hey, what ballistic app do you use????
Kidding, just kidding.
You would probably like tools and targets also. He tests ammo and tools no selling no BS just info good or bad.
This channel deserves 500k subs. Must be the difference between tacticool and real world.
Oh man my channel is growing like crazy! It’s only a matter of time before we get the channel to that level. I really appreciate you supporting the channel and ask you to help me grow by sharing the channel when and where you can with your buddies. Lots of new content coming so hope you’ll stay tuned to check it out!
I shrink my vital zone to what I think the smallest target I would encounter, generally 4". So even if a bit of "fever" sets in, I have a better chance of success. For a couple of the rifles and loads that is about 225-240 which also happens to be about as far as can be seen where I hunt. The farthest I have shot something there has been 125, most under 100. They've all dropped, but I always shoot high shoulder.
Fantastic video that brought up some great memories! When I went through drill sergeant school in 2009 the Army Marksmanship Unit came in and taught the first part of our marksmanship instruction. Their findings were pretty much the same as what you’re describing. For years we’d zero at the 25 meter line to impact at 300 meters which was our battle sight zero. Battle sight zero at 300 meters involved slight point of aim adjustments for nearer targets. They had us adjust our zeros to 200 meters and we were able to hold center mass from 50 to 250 meters and only had to change POA for the 300 meter target.
You’re spot on in theory vs real world experience as well. Not only does shooter error and environmental elements play a role, the quality of your ammo does as well. After watching the Hornady guys (host, senior ballistician, and engineer) discuss ammo, it really drove home the point to run the best ammo with the least amount of deviation in velocity. A lot of guys like to blame themselves when it very well could have been a combination of 1000 different factors between the ammo, rifle and shooter. Lots of good info here though, keep up the good shooting!
If you zeroed from the 25m line for a 36/300 zero which is the correct way to do it then your deviation from 50-300 is less than 6 inches. The rifle is meant for a 36/300 zero and therefore should be done so.
To go along with this concept of optimizing your near zero and far zero, you should make a video of shooting through loopholes at your near zero to hit a target several hundred meters away
This is the VERY best CZcams channel by a LONG shot, pun intended!
Thank you from a long time ELR shooter.
When I was a kid, my dad and I hunted prairie dogs almost every week during the summer. Primarily with 222 Remingtons, but also with 220 swift, 22-250, 243 and 25-06. This was before the days of range finders and scopes with dial turrets. We always zeroed 2.5” high at a hundred. You had to be a good judge of range and wind, and the flatter shooting cartridges definitely helped. It’s really incredible how much easier it is now when you know exactly and can dial. Just a wind game, and you don’t really need a super flat shooting cartridge. I think that’s really why the 6.5 creedmoor took off. It came out about the same time good inexpensive range finders became common place and its superior ballistics took care of the rest.
Thanks for all your content & support, these videos are helping the gun community tremendously, USMC Retired !
Nice job explaining what could be a complicated process in a very basic manner. Appreciate your knowledge and insight.
I'm the guy that commented about pb zero. Battle zero is NOT the same as pb zero. Battle zero is based on target size of a human, say 12" (+6" and -6"), and a pre determined zero distance. You then zero your cartridge/bullet accordingly.
PB zero is based on target size (of your choosing), muzzle velocity of the cartridge/bullet that you are using, ballistic coefficient, and height over bore. Plug that in to the ballistic calc and you will get your + and - from muzzle to where the bullet meets the line of sight at distance. So, one you pre determine the distance and the other you pre determine the target size.
Great video. A lot of people either over explain or overthink these things. I like the way you break it down to a simple method.
Great explanation, sometimes I think many of us are using these concepts without really thinking about it, really appreciate the video.
I feel like I'm sitting in the classroom, LOL nice job.
There are multiple free max point blank range calculators out there so you don't have to guess and check. You also need to account for your precision. MPBR tells you where the CENTER of the group should land. So for example, 300 yrd MPBR, 1moa precision, POI = 3" below POA, group size =3", so the bottom half your group would fall 1.5" below the "vitals zone". Depends on what you're doing on how important this is.
Correct. I also account this way. I like MPBR for a lot of my hunting. It only fails when I do.
All he needed to was put in the range he wanted for his zero and then just dialed it at 25yd. JBM kind of does this for you and can just adjust from there
I've tried to get my agency to adopt a MPBR Zero from our current 100 yard zero. Our environment would require shots be taken well past our 100 yard zero but most of our officers aren't shooters. Non shooters would benefit a great deal with a MPBR Zero.
In military combat matches we've seen good success with the 265 yard zero as it allows shooters to hold center out to 300 yards so they only need to learn their holds for 400 and 500.
265 for long zero right, which is ³⁶-40 short zero?
I opened the CZcams app with the intent of looking up some different zeroing videos and this was the first vid i see.
Love it! Hope you found value in watching this one!
So many other people feel it's necessary to be a comedy act for 3 minutes before they get to the point. I appreciate your straight forward and fact based presentation. You're a great information source.
Really cool to hear you enjoy the format. Certainly I want viewers to find my content entertaining but my goal is to be a go to source for shooters looking to improve their skills. This means I’ll always try to prioritize value of content over clicks. Lots of new content coming so hope you’ll stay tuned!
@@MountainsMulletsMerica I'm here to learn. Thank you.
Outstanding tutorial Sir!
I'm a retired Marine (air wing) who never had much range time during my 20 years. Now that I'm old, I'm trying to relearn the art of zeroing my M4 for maximum point blank range. Because my eyes are dimming and I do not have access to a decent range, I bought a mil-spec collimator calibrated for 300 meters that I'm told present day Marines are using for their initial qualification zero. Unfortunately I haven't figured out how to dial it in. In any event, I would appreciate your opinion (good or bad) on using a collimator to sight in iron and optical sights. My goal is to dial in a set it and forget it 300 yard/meter point blank zero. By the way my Son Anthony says he knows you and he spun me onto your channel.
Semper Fi
Ken
Absolutely fantastic way to relay how to work through some fairly complicated variables/metrics that factor into “zeroing” any rifle and breaking into bite size easy steps to follow. I remember my own personal experiences in the early days of zeroing rifles and I had no clue where to begin. Sure Wish I had this content a long time ago. Kudos brother, and thank you. Really valuable stuff.
Great video. The reason your hits were a little higher than expected at 100 yards with the 40 yard zero is because your 40 yard zero was a tiny bit high. Instead of dialing up .6, you should have probably gone up .7 MILS. Strelok has a section that gives you the point blank range for your setup where all you have to input is the size of your target. Basically what you did, but the app does all the calculating for you.
Love this channel. Your gear commentary is definitely driving some of my purchasing decisions.
This is a wholesome channel.
Nice to hear an explanation of this that even I can understand. Thanks
You should have 10 million subscribers
Thank you! My channel is growing like crazy so I think it’s only a matter of time. I’ve got a ton of new content planned this year so hope you’ll stay tuned to check it out and make sure to share word of the channel with your buddies!
The one thing to always remember is the margin of error of the scope. No scope is made perfect so they all will be a lil off in their measurements. Theirs a calculation that you can shoot, measure and run to find your scopes actual measurements.
By all this i mean your scooe my actually be .1 or .15 or even minus something off. So if you find what your scooe actual measurements are when it tells you to dial a certain number of mil you will know that you will actually dial up a small amount or down a small amount. It just helps you be more accurate.
I never knew that nonscooes are actually perfect with their adjustments. I thought it was cool to see this when i saw it explained to me.
Already subbed, thanks to Wade at the TPH podcast.
My AR-15 came from the factory with a combat zero of 25-300. Seriously, fresh from the transfer, I walked to the range, opened the box, pulled out the rifle and loaded a mag. Dead on the crosshairs at 25 yards. For home defense purposes, that is great. It still has the iron sights.
I toyed with the idea of MPBR on my other rifles (.308 W, 7 mm PRC.) I dont't because the rifles one can get are usually around 1 MOA, maybe slightly less. I don't need the variance of factory ammo with 1 MOA performance added to the rise and fall variance of MPBR. Better to dial the distance and then only the 1 MOA dispersion is to be worried about.
Top notch video once again.
Thank you! Really appreciate the continued support!
Fantastic as always! Great job!
Your videos tickle my tism.
It’s nice that the kestrel has a max point blank built in to its software.
Ol shooter app been solid many yrs…it and hornady ones I have…my 16” doublestar upper just printed .5”@100 with bulk 55grhp I sloppily loaded while back….done same with 55gr fmj also…kinda blew me away with stock trigger Walmart 3x9 Nikon…always a pleasure Zack…👊🏻matt
I have learned to use the Hornady 4dof for things like this and it's impressive if you have good data to input
Practical Info, Great job. Great Delivery, concise and to the point.
Yo lets go!! This is great stuff brother. Glad you were able to work some of the ballistic calculator into the video.
So i feel like max blank and battle zero kinda play hand in hand at the beginning. But they are different with end out come. In theory you could use max blank for battle zero but like you stated max blank is a specific vital zone ya staying in.
Awesome stuff right here brother, kinda mad YT changed my notifications on your channel and i didn't get notifications of this video and newer videos.
only 11 minutes in and this is great content. however I feel I need to remind users that if you don't know the drop of your rifle cartridge @400 but zeroed @ 100, you're not a sniper or a good hunter! The battle zero is a great concept, but really only matters less than 250 yards IMO
Two more comments- i believe that if you're looking for point blank range, you should have a red dot mounted. "Point blank" is very subjective, and IMO is focused on effective range of the specific cartridge. .22LR is fatal to.... 20 yards?
Secondly, when you were at 280 yards, practically speaking, you shouldn't be using a tripod. That's a 'crutch' IMO. If you're hunting some game lands where the victims are new, fine. If you're hunting the world's most dangerous game, better be prepared for some awkward sniper positions like the previous competition video you posted, which is much better than this one.
Thank you for the good content, overall!
I feel like one of the largest error margins in your particular set up is that large dot in your scope. Finer crosshairs would have closed that up and, I believe, would have been consistent with the calculator. Great video. Thanks for the effort.
Spot on!!!
Thank you!
Love the content. This was a great topic to cover. One thing to note is that when you set up your Max Point Blank range, be sure to calculate known accuracy of the rifle. Ex: rifle shoots 1-1.5 MOA, rifle margin of error at 300 yards will be 3 - 4.5". Cut that in half for a radius to add to your max ord or max drop to determine if you're within your desired vital zone.
Excellent video as always.
Always great stuff!
great videos, i love practical application of the theories you discuss and have started to implement them on my rifles.
I love this channel. So much good info. MMM is fricken lethal.
Thank you for presenting this concept in an easy way to understand. I would suggest trying the same thing using sand bags or some other type of solid rest and see if your impacts land the same or not. The positioning of the bipod may be causing shifts in your point of aim from shot to shot which would explain the shot dispersion. Enjoyed the video.
Love seeing your application videos. Let's me know what I need to focus on. Gets people to think about a plan vs reality.
Enjoyed this video! Definitely gets me thinking about my rifles and how im going to use them
I do this with my 30-06 and my kids 7mm-08 deer hunting rifles. We are good out to about 269 with the 06 and 275 with the 08 using MPBR + or - 3 inches. If you want to shoot further, then get a scope with a clicker and zero at 100 then adjust for distance using the elevation clicker on the scope. I might do the with my 06. Already have the scope just have not done it yet.
Sweet point blank mullet madness
The theory works great . The scope and reticle/ target choice helped open up the groups the most at distance.
I think implementing this with a dope card could get you the best overall deviation for holds.
Awesome content, keep it comin!
Thanks for the great content!🙏
Great videos! So stoked I found your channel. Really appreciate your style. Great job, man!
Appreciate you taking the time to watch and support the channel! Lots of fresh content in the works this year so hope you’ll stay tuned and make sure to share the channel with your buddies!
Where were you and the internet 1980 and 2000? When I was active hunting? Lol... I enjoy your videos immensely. This concept I'll take out to the range and have some fun. Keep that brain of yours turning over and I'll keep watching! One can tell your channels doing well. Keep up the good work!
Haha love it! Really appreciate you taking the time to watch my videos and support the channel. I can’t go back in time and help you out but I do have a ton of new content planned this year so stay tuned!
Solid content (as always). For a mil spec upper receiver, add 1.2” to your mount’s centerline height: (1.2” + 1.54”) = 2.74” height over bore
I wasnt sure what the measurement was here…. Great info and thanks for sharing! Will for sure work this into a future video
Excellent demonstration, thanks for sharing! Another factor is the dispersion of the ammo accuracy. 1 moa accuracy can add roughly 1.5" of dispersion from center of POA at 300 yards, etc.
What?
Dispersion in what? ES on velocity?
@@seanoneil277 I was trying to convey dispersion in the impact of shots. A 2 moa AR will show roughly a 4" group at 200, and 6" group at 300 yards. That dispersion might be a consideration in MPBR calculations.
@@shanepitzer4126 Oh I get you now, thanks. I guess some might think MOA at 100 means a 3" group at 300 is crap, instead of it just being a math bit they ignored.
I was thinking more of ES and velocity irregularity. Like spending 3 of a box of 20 on the chrono, and calling it a day, vs checking ammo consistency within a box / lot.
Awesome video bro. I’ve enjoyed watching you since you were shooting and reviewing ga precision rifles. Keep up the solid work bro.
Oh man I’ve got plenty of precision rifle content planned in the near future so hope you’ll stay tuned to check it out! I’m not giving up on what made the channel, just trying to create different types of content to appeal to a wider audience.
Awesome video as usual! I really enjoy your content!
Love to hear you’re enjoying the content! Lots of new videos planned this year so hope you’ll stay tuned to check them out and don’t forget to share the channel with your buddies!
Great video man! Huge fan of the Brenton rifle! 😎
I'm currently running a MaxPBR on my 12.5 w/T2 and magnifier. I use an 8" vital zone, and I get POA/POI out to 296 yards with M193. So far it's been a reliable zero method for that particular rifle.
Best channel on CZcams
Very practical for blind hunting in the SE with known distance to tree line
Great video. Keep up the good work.
Another great vid, keep it up.
Never heard of this. Thank you.
Good video thanks for tips.
Been loving your ar videos. You should do a video on tripod placement. Like pros and cons of tripod to the front of rifle vs the rear of the handguard.
Awesome video. I am using the concept for hunting, but with a way smaller zone as there is dispersion and error stacking. So I use a 4 inch zone, getting me out to 220 yards. For me it is perfect as many opportunities present themselves in first or absolute last light and there is just no time to fiddle around with a range finder and dialing. The max point-blank range combined with a BDC or similar reticle gets you everything you need within ethical hunting ranges
Enjoy all your videos 👍 I have a video suggestion, see how much optic height will change the same zero at distance. For example a 1.54 mount vs 1.93 mount both with 50 yard zero at 300,400,500 yards
Excellent vlog
I use a 250 MPR and the use gravity/weaponized ballistics on out to a thousand yards for my hunting gun...7mm rem mag Weatherby Vanguard
Great job
Great video!
Great vid.
Keep in mind dispersion of ammo , optic, and shooter error probably accounted for the margin of error .
That’s said most shooters would be more than adequate running this.
My opinion has always been,
Zero at most common accruing target engagement distance, then shoot assorted targets at all other ranges to confirm your data and or true said data up.
Well done, sir. Well done!
Thank you! Really appreciate you taking the time to watch and support the channel!
This was great! Thank you!
Awesome to hear you enjoyed watching!
Another great vid 👍 🇬🇧
Liked your videos info thanks
Another Great Video 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
I was thinking of doing this very test with a few changes and making my intro video into YT. 🤘 good video!
Dude 100% give it a go! I think this would be a great topic to launch a channel with. The cool thing about CZcams is everyone puts their own twist on things so while the concept might not be unique, your video certain my will be. Appreciate the support!
Awesome video! Well done!
As a thought or point of discussion, what cause the impacts going left?
Didn’t seem like the wind. And you mention the wind was actually going the other direction.
Is it zero error?
Parallax error?
Equipment error?
Deflection in the rifle from the tripod?
Anyways, Thanks for all the great info!
Great Video! I think it's important to remember the ballistic calculator is measuring a perfect shot not taking in account of shooter's error. If you can shoot a 1" group at 100yards, roughly one MOA, you can take that and measure out a cone of fire for each distance. IE: roughly 40yards=.4", 100yds=1", 150yrds=1.5", 200yds=2", 250yds=2.5", and 280yds=2.8". This assumes you can shoot one MOA at almost 300 yards. For example, in this video your ballistic app stated your bullet would land at -1.1" below your point of aim. Assuming you could shoot one MOA at that distance you could draw a one MOA circle from -1.1". So your theoretical cone of fire would be plus or minus half of one MOA or 2.5"/2 = 1.25" plus or minus from -1.1" = (+.15" to -2.35"). If you did this for each distance you could draw overlapping circles that could give you a more accurate reference for max point blank range.
Great point and great explanation! Exactly why I like showing the real world performance of various theories. It’s easy to look at your calculator and assume your shots will land exactly where it says but there are so many real world variables that must be taken into account. Appreciate you taking the time watch and support the channel!
Great video
very good video👍
Thank you.
My man lookin fancy with his collared shirt on. 😛😎
My family got some me some branded swag for Christmas…. Feels like an easy way to class the channel up haha
Very good video and always better to see what really happened in real world. Glad you can shoot with your tripod. 👍
I’ve grown to love shooting from a tripod! Such an easy to use and practical tool, you’ll be seeing tripods in many more future videos. Appreciate you taking the time to watch and support the channel!
@@MountainsMulletsMerica when you get fat and old there are things that you can’t do anymore lol 😂
I prefer this method of home defense for a rifle with a red dot. It's just my preference.
The target that I shoot most has a vitle zone approximately the same size and shape as a 20 oz pop bottle and can be oriented vertically or horizontal. My hit % is better when it is oriented vertically. I upgraded my optic this year and am looking forward to the nabors cutting hay this summer.
I love your content
Thank you! Really appreciate you taking the time to watch and support the channel!
Center of bore to top of receiver 1.2150". Top of receiver to bore center of AUS scope mount 1.54" 1.2150" plus 1.54" equals 2.755". 😉
Good stuff, keep it coming! What ballistic calculator are you using?
I enjoy the vids
Thank you! Really awesome to hear you’re enjoying the content. Lots of new videos in the works so hope you’ll stay tuned to check them out!
Awesome content. Thank you for sharing it with us. Can you share which ballistic calculator you use? Thank you.
Appreciate you taking the time to watch! I’m running the shooter ballistic calculator by Kennedy development group. Costs something like $10 in the App Store
@@MountainsMulletsMericais this the same calculator you’ve used in your other videos where you used a ballistic calculator?
Thanks!
Really appreciate your support of the channel! Let me know if you’ve ever got any kind of video ideas you’d like me to try to knock out for you!
Need you to get your hands on the new 6mm MAX from SOLGW to replace the 6 ARC for review
Great stuff sir. Which bullet calculator app would you suggest?
Great video! What calculator are you using?
I have found that the rounds usually end up higher than the calculator when running a can.
Excellent video, thank you very much. One thing though: I did not see you adepting your parallex to the various distances. Would that not help? Thank you in avance and keep up the great work!
LPVOs typically don't have a parallax adjustment.... this one in particular does not. If I had a scope with parallax adjustment then for sure I'd be making sure it was set correctly for each distance.
The problem for me is that I have multiple Manufacturers/Bullet Weights for each of my 6.5 Grendel and 5.56 setups.
interesting they went without having a top picatinny on the handguard but include a tripod rail