TFS: Welding Very Thin Aluminum (GTR Trunk Shave)
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2016
- How to manage welding very thin aluminum. Justin the Fabricator shows you how to shave a Nissan GTR Trunk lid wich is constructed of thin sheet aluminum. This method is an excellent solution when you do not have space to insert or use a chill block or backing metal.
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I dropped in at TFS to buy some consumables, got to meet Justin in person, and was amazed at the time he spent with me to advise me on my beginner Tig questions, right in the middle of while he was filming a video, unbeknownst to me, until the camera guy came out behind him. Justin was exactly as you see him on CZcams, friendly, patient, unselfish, and informative. Like this video, his talent is amazing and he never withholds any information for business reasons or other and he generously gives you any and all information he can think of to fit your level of knowledge. I can’t say enough about this guy except, he’s definitely going places. Thank you very much Justin.
I am a retired auto body man and I give you a major thumbs up!
Thank you!
I actually discovered that on my own once. The lip on the slug helping to hold it in place. I thought I was being pretty smart at the time.
Of course I have no clue what I'm doing but my cluelessness gets better with every project.
Thanks for the tips.
Have a great day 👍
Here's a trick for you. Before you weld the rings in the holes, cut discs that just barely fit in the hole. Then weld the end of a welding rod to the center of the little disc you cut out. Use this as a handle. Drop the disc in the hole with the rod handle and then weld the rings around the holes. Now pull the disc up against those rings and you have a nice little plug to fill the hole. Fusion tack it to your ring and then weld it up. Way faster and no big blobs to sand off. Love your vids.
-Fabman :)
Justin, Phenomenal instruction. I decide to learn how to weld in December 2019. Purchased a multi-process unit with scratch start TIG. Focused on Stick and MIG welding. Now, thanks to your CZcams Videos, I'm switching to TIG. Purchased the PrimeWeld 225 and loving it! Great instructional videos and I'm planning to sign up for one of you classes. See you in Vegas soon! Nicely Done!
wow, skills are great and what I liked most was the business/economic rationale for this particular fix - and the emphasis on patience. From another old guy.
I’m a retired welder and I know how hard thin aluminum is to weld.. I’ve refused jobs because it’s so easy to do more damage. I hate it with a passion, but having the patience and time is the key...so, good job.
So true. That's why welders who weld aluminum jobs get payed fairly well.
This video is extremely helpful to me. I work on old land rovers and the brim bright aluminum panels are fairly thin and I have major issues filling holes without blowing holes everywhere. Thank you!!!!!
Great job Jason! I know you were saying that you were in a pinch for time with this one, am I'm sure I speak for many when I say I appreciate the effort and time for making this.
You're welcome! I only had a small window of time to shoot this and a lot of people were wanting to see it.
It doesn't always take a "chill block" as a backer. I used a strip of stainless steel as a backer when I was filling in pinholes on an aluminum boat. I used a strip a couple of inches wide and a couple of feet long and was even able to bend it into a Z shape. The springiness of the SS helped hold it in place, and I was able to get in some tight spaces with it. I think I used 18 or 20 gauge stainless.
Learned a BUNCH on this video, thanks Justin.
Love the slugs idea, helped me a lot, thanks man.
Awesome work as always Justin. impressive!
Very interesting, I've never seen it done like that before. Thanks!
Good work man...I weld only as a hobby and I would never attempt something like this, I'd screw this up big time. You deserve a sub for this work.
great videos man I'm loving all of this. I am like a sponge soaking up all of the knowledge your laying down. Thankyou !
Thanks for watching!
I expect I will never do anything like that, but some very good ideas and tips I will be able to use as I come across other projects. Thanks!!
There are plenty of other practical application projects that these techniques can be used on. Thanks for watching!
Very good video bro 😎 I really love you
Your all video is superb thanks 🙏
great tips thanks. you where tought well again thanks and keep the vids coming
Thanks for watching!
Why this guy has only 62K subs? , definitely underrated
The channel is only a couple years old. It's moving along well for what it is.
and now 100 k more
It's definitely increasing, after finding this channel I watch it every day, this guy is awesome, the way he explains everything, nothing but praise.
realy nice job. Here's were an alloy-magnet would come in handy
Excellent video. I TIG weld in the Aerospace Industry...when I have to plug weld, I use aluminum tape on the back side to hold the plug for my tacks, then remove and clean if necessary before I finish weld probably at about 200HZ.
I wish I had the adjust ability and accessibility with this piece and welder.
Sell the Diversion and get a Dynasty 200. The Diversion is a budget machine and from my experience, is not built all that rugged electrically, not to mention the permenently mounted torche cable is heavy and doesn't flex well. The Dynasty starts and runs smoother and you will feel spoiled having actual adjustments for AC as well as pulse (which I dont use but some love it).
I agree...I have both a Miller Dynasty 200 and Dynasty 350 with no regrets on purchasing both.
I'm going to try welding some really thin metal with an everlast pulse mig welder. I understand it really helps with avoiding blowouts.
Nice video good information!
I have a magnetic drill which uses 'plug cutters', aka annular bits that cut a really nice plug with the lip as clean and even thicknessed as anyone would want. They have a 3/4 Weldon shank, but could be chucked-up into a large 3/4 chuck. I noticed the hole saw wobble in the vid...
I've had to drill a bunch of various sized holes in .063, .120 and .250 wall square tube and have a crud load of those plugs in a drawer I thought of saving for some crazy reason, lol.
Great info. Thank you.
Good Stuff :-) Well Done!
Thank you!
Good job !!
great job!
Thank you!
Cool weld ! I have a old Miller in great shape but need new torch! Thanks
Right on. Thanks for watching!
Were you using a foot pedal for welding?
Bro please provide information about tig welding machine setting for aluminium,stainless steel and mild steel
Great fit up. I have a question. Couldnt you have cut with some snips some similar guage sheet, bend the tabs and tack it in on low amps in a " v" grove in the hole? Wouldnt that been easier? Im no fabricator just curious thinker. Love your vids👍👍👍
I might have considered using Transtar 1738 panel adhesive and AL slugs to keep that much heat out but this is very well done. Do whatever works. Maybe think about a half-round and flat Vixen file to knock down the welds. Very easy to control and zero heat while removing a lot of material. I'm more worried about grinding heat than I am welding. Never tried it, but I wonder if that magic rod they sell at flea markets works...solders the hell out of 2 AL beer cans and since isn't structural, might work.
I know what rods youre talking about they might work well structurally but you have to heat up the parent metal super hot for them to start melting. The paint job would be absolutely fucked. Not to mention the warping
Hi there this is great stuff how come you don't use a glove on your rod finger I feel heat through my gloves and I use big green welders gloves
Great job, 👍👍
Thank you!
love your videos, you should probably get a external mic.
Working on it.
can you use a backer to fill plug?
when you say chill block, were you talking bout copper on the back side?....Thaxs love the videos.
Very nice job,not easy at all. What settings were you using on the welder?
you want to do a video on a sunroof delete? I'll let you borrow my car, lol.
love your work.
If you're in or near Vegas, I can do it.
I'm in the massive cornfield we call Indiana... if I do a roadtrip out to Vegas, I'll hit you up. For some reason I got you confused in my head with another car channel I follow that is in SW Ohio, roughly 2 hours from me.
Good brain good work good luck
Thanks for great video, I am attempting to do just these type of repairs to an old Landrover Defender and this video is one of the only ' real life ' a real panel getting a job done videos on CZcams , most are brand new bits of aluminium getting welded with everything precisely as you would want it , chill blocks, no paint anywhere etc. What amps were you set at to weld the initial edge of the holes ? I don't seem to be able to establish an arc without melting back instantly. Thanks for great video 👍
He initially set the machine to 40a. If you have an inverter machine and can choose your wave shape try a triangle wave shape and/or play with the cleaning action (wave balance) a bit to reduce the heat soak of the area. He states to get in, get moving and introduce rod to cool the puddle, which has been my experience as well with thin aluminum. But adjusting the wave balance as well as wave shape (miller dynasty 200dx in my case) as well as reducing to a smaller tungsten size has helped me in the past. Best of luck in your restoration endeavors.
hey , I got the same milling machine ha ! nice job mate
It gets the job done for a decent price. Thanks for watching!
What was actual time spent and what did you charge for that? Just a ruff est,
I know I’m a bit late since this clip are over 4 years old. But the best way of doing this is MIG. I’m of course talking about, just that, not MAG as everyone call MIG. You can get penetration without the massive heat dump and therefore less warp.
is it humanly possible to weld aluminum on aluminum with a pulley section that broke off on a timing cover for a truck and making sure it doesnt break off once the serpentine belt is back on?
I wonder if you could lay the hood in water and just keep the welding part dry. If that would keep it from heating?
good use for cold spray
Nice
roman atwoods older brother?? haha great videos
You are the beste
some close in arc shots would have been really helpful here.
Would it not be a lot quicker to cut a square section?
that covers all the small holes at that side .
Then welding a larger square section in that hole ?
I would recumbent blowing it with air right after welding to minimize warpage
you are such a bad ass
Quick question, would you use this same technique for steel, or is this specifically for aluminum?
Steel panels are much easier to manage. you can simply cut a slug and weld it under the bottom side or cut the same size and use a magnet to hold it in place. It also doesn't warp as bad as thin aluminum which makes most of these processes in this video unnecessary.
I couldn't make out which welder you were using. Miller...?
What do you use to cool the aluminium if you could?
Why do you use a solid shade helmet instead of an auto-darken helmet
What welder machine use ? Model ?? Setting ?? Is ac or dc welding process ?? High freq ?? Please let me know.
great video but shorten the intro segment that you use on each video as only really needs a really short one as most of us just want to get to the nitty gritty of the video ASAP.
turbotrana1 Everyone just skips around regardless of how long the vid is, so it shouldn't matter haha. Thanks for watching!
That's what the fast forward feature is for. lol
Question......when welding an exhaust pipe repair for a bike like this...... does the filler metal that drips through on the inside effect the air flow to any degree of significance or obstruct the ratio in any way? Would it possibly be an option to fabricate a small thin ring as a type of "sleeve" that is just wide enough and as thin as possible to prevent that? I assume the inside circumference would reduce a little bit but at least its uniform. right or wrong? Feeback highly appreciated. thanks. cheers.
oh, and of course i meant a ring to go on the inside of the pipe
Im fairly new to tig welding but since copper draws more heat than aluminum, could you clamp copper chill bars to the top side very near where you were welding to dissipate heat and minimize warping? I’ve done this when mig welding thin sheet metal with good results. Might be a good test video...
Watch the video again where I talked about chill bars and why they weren't used.
@@TheFabricatorSeries i think you misunderstood his point. You could have used slabs of copper as heat sinks on top next to the holes to pull off the heat.
One thing we have to remember here is to wear a glove!
Jinks
@@toad2039 I suppose if you’re superstitious, then you will jinx yourself. The rest of us call it intelligent precaution.
And don't leave the giant jug of acetone open
Bondo has no place on a vehicle of this price point. Nice clean job with the aluminum. Hope the owner is happy with the work done.
Theirs no issue using body filler on this deck lid. Actually using body filler isn't an issue at all, as long as theirs minimal amount possible it's fine
+Integra DIY I will agree with you on that point. Minimal being the key word.
Body filler was used to smooth out all the work I did to get rid of the holes. It has to be done no matter what because it is almost impossible to get the metal perfectly flush and smooth after grinding. The amount of filler needed to refinish this lid was very minimal. It was only a thin layer for the low spots followed by a scratch coat.
Tim Nault You may not know this but the Factory uses fillers for small imperfections.
Acetone, yes, delicious.
I guess haha.
what was the thickness of the trunk lid ?
I like the music a lot ! who is it from ? thanks
Ethan Meixsell. I use his music in almost every video I have. It's all instrumental, but awesome sounds.
Instead of using a hole saw ues a rota broach bit for a mag drill. They cut much better especially if you need to cut steel plugs.
Wouldn't gunsmith heat stop paste help?
my Question is why don't you go from one side to the other allowing the heat to dissipate on one side while working the other
Yo i see yall using some hole saws and they look like wood blades. I tried to use one on a tank i was welding up and it mangled the hole badly.
I do these an easier way. Punch out the plug and tack a weld rod to it. Crank up the amps while holding the plug and tack top , bottom ,left, right. Keeps the heat out.
You have a great on camera personality, do you have any previous experience?
I've been on TV a few times, but nothing that would qualify me as an on air personality or count as experience.
its funny what thinn is . Welding 0.65mm aluminium daily, i have trubble going up to like 2-3 mm now xD
The moral of this story is don't drill holes in your car! Only joking. Nice techniques and a thumbs up from me :-)
What type of welder do you need to weld aluminum ?
Ac/dc tig or a mig welder with a spoolgun.
Kinda curious, with the other nice welders you own, why the miller?
Because I only owned the Miller before the nice welders showed up. A lot has changed over the years....
can straight helium be used for tiging alumin?
Helium flies away too easy
A piece of advise you do not have to wait for the metal to cool.Most people that own a tig welder most likely own a compressor you can use filtered compressed air to cool the metal with a blow gun lightly blowing near the weld area.
I have watch your video to the end but if you do it right without a lot of force from the blow gun it will not make the metal cool improperly.
In body shops we do not have the luxury of waiting and this technique has been used on steel,Aluminium,stainless.
CRAZY HORSEPOWER You should read the other comments where I talked about this.
The Fabrication Series Not trying to be a wise guy I will read other comments But it's funny that I came across your video this morning as I happen to be working On a Aluminium door panel with a small tear.
The Fabrication Series So I read through the comments and I did not see anything pertaining to what I said.
Also If you are concerned about the grinding and warping the Aluminium set up your blow gun to cool the metal.
As far as welding the Aluminium I agree in replacing the welder and using high Frequency,
One other thing I guess you never tig standard everyday Aluminum foil have you ?
I'm wondering why when You had perfectly round holes, You didn't cut plugs from the start with hole saws ? I am not a body guy at all, so I'm guessing there was a reason ?
dieselrotor I'm not sure what you mean.
32 year long heavy duty mechanic,fabricator,welder,builder of custom semi's and wreckers and I have been binge watching Your videos and am learning tons ! Thank You !
If You have perfectly (or close) round holes, could You not lay a sheet down, 5 penny nailed to a 2x4 and use holes saw to cut plugs a little over the size of the holes (I have a large assortment of hole saw's from over the years) ,tack a scrap bit to it for a grip/handle then sand/grind it to size to fit in the hole using the scrap bit to hold it in the hole,tack in place,snap off the little scrap handle then fill the outer diameter of the plug then fill in the drill hole on the hole saw plug instead using less filler and less heat ?
Again, absolutely loving Your videos.
Did you watch the entire video? You are describing something similar to what I did but in a different process. I cut hole saw slugs to patch in the larger holes.
Whats he's asking is why you didant just weld slug into the original holes, (whick i would do on a steel job like this) but you mentioned at the start of the video to wanted a thinker edge to weld the slug too.
Have you ever considered thicker stainless backing on the holes
There was no access to the back of the holes which is why the method shown was used.
Alternatively, if you could have used it, would you be able to use something like brass on AL this thin? I've never welded AL that thin before.
I'm not expert, and by no means mean any disrespect .. but I'm wondering why didn't you consider to use a copper shill bar behind to control that temperature..
Migueldeservantes The reason is the same as I said in the video.
Well I actually took this time and see the entire video. Just last fryday I was doing exactly the same with SS... on a pressure vessel... "air brake tanks for a public transportation.." and couldn't put a shield bar behind neither... so year some times ins literally impossible to use a shield bar.. thanks for been courteous. I appreciated that.
Nice example of the "down and dirty" way to do this. However why not just use a slug cutter and a step drill or reamer to make friction fit round holes for the slugs? I know a lot of body work is down and dirty metal work followed up by artistic body filler and sanding but I feel like this case would warrant less crude welding. ether way the approach used isn't bad, just a bit more rough and let the paint and filler guys work their magic.
how about thin aluminum with DC TIG and Argon gas?
AWD Garage 34 no
DCEN requires Helium, google it.
why did you choose to run a bead around the holes then fill it? i think it would have been better to fill the factory hole with meal and run 1 bead around it
pretty sure he's doing that to add more thickness around the area to make it easier to weld his patch.
I don't understand why you didn't make an initial rub of each hole and a small aluminum filler disc for each hole and weld it in. I don't really understand adding a bead around the hole first. if you can add metal around the edge of a hole, wouldn't you be pretty much done already if said you just added was actually your weld.
Why not slip a strip into the hole with a welding rod tacked onto to hold it
Slip it into the hole tack it in place
So basically backing it up from behind
It wouldnt be totally backing the hole but about 80%
Yo!!!! Are those bullet holes????
You need to get a better camera setup so the arc shots are visible and in focus.
I recommend watching one of our new videos that aren't 5 years old.
what hood do you use
It is an old "big window" non auto-darkening. It was my very first hood.
Get yourself a spoon my dude!
What happens when the car is in the sun and the trunk gets really hot and cools at a different rate than those super thick metal slugs?
It won't get hot enough for that kind of expansion.
What is funny? BBQ paint? cooking? what are you talking about?
We are talking about the sun heating metal and the inevitable cooling causing expansion and contraction of the metal which aluminum does a lot of this even steel as thin as it is on car bodies. Throw in the vibrations of the car when driving and the opening and closing of doors and trunks and hoods and there is a very real possibility of the paint failing or even warpage or distortion due to the different expansion and contraction and vibration around stress risers caused by welding and the thickness of these plugs.
There will be no difference at expansion rate since both the trunk and the slugs are made of it. Also even if they were dissimilar metals their diameter is comparatively small and it would hardly make a difference (just something to keep in mind in that case), and it will really not get that hot unless BBQ black is your color of choice...(kind of a trend lately)
It wasn't only the heat I was concerned about but also the vibration. Also I am assuming wrongly I admit that the aluminum body of a GTR is as thin and flexible and unsupported as the aluminum cars i've worked on.
It probably is thinner and as flexible but in the end I think it will be more rigid.
I use to weld with no gloves like you young man. You will regret it. don't risk it.
ewmism I used to as well.
at what frequency did you weld?
My machine is not adjustable. I think the AC output is set somewhere in the 100hz range, but I'm not sure exactly.
Can I try this with my .035" flux core mig?
Just kidding.
should of just dynaglass and some lightweight filler over the holes and called it good.
the body guy is gunna have a hell of a time getting that trunk straight after you welded on it.....
Expansion and Contraction rates between aluminum and fiberglass are different... meaning over time the patch could fail.
I'd rather do body work on this after being welded on.
Filling in a hole with no backing will cause failure over time unless there was more material over the top to hold it in place. Adding (or "floating") the top of the trunk would cause cracking over time because it will shift and move due to vibration, expansion and contraction, as well as the new wing pushing and pulling on the trunk lid. You have to minimize the amount of filler present on the trunk lid so that there is nothing to crack. In addition, the procedures used in the video prevented the trunk lid from distorting. There was no need for a hammer and dolly to straighten it back out after welding. All that was needed was a very light layer of filler to fill up the low spots (you can see the low spots toward the end after grinding).
I've done body work for 16 years and hes job is fine. nothing a light skim of polyester fine filler and a few coats of high build primer wouldn't get flat.
the only reason i said that is because just what i have done and has worked. short strand filler is good for holes up to 1" most of the time.
i didnt realize another wing was being put on when you said "shaved" id assume nothing would be going back on.
also i dont work with aluminum much but i know it takes heat very well so i dont know how bad it warps. i know steel and especially stainless warp really bad if you were to run a bead like that..
i never do nothing more then a tac.
either way that takes still to weld aluminum like that.
+Guinelle1 Aluminium seems to distort a lot less due to the way it dissipates its heat. Why you should always becareful when welding in funny positions not to rest your forearms on parts of the job. Got a couple of good burns that way on aluminium tube
you using windex as cutting lubricant? LOL 11:03
just wondering why didn't you just bondo the holes shut?
Umm no. But he should have cut some 16g plugs and welded them in. Way to much work the way he is doing it. Also, with no access to back he can't dolly it out afterwards. He's putting way to much heat is that expensive part.
it would crack in 6 months or less
bondo is for shaping, not for filling holes. the bondo would fall out.
Body filler is not designed to cover a hole. It has many limitations. Body filler needs to stick to something in order to cover it. If you try to use body filler over a hole, then sand it smooth, there will be nothing remaining for the filler to stay which will cause it to fall through leaving the same hole in the piece. You have to fill the hole before adding filler to smooth it back out.
+Jason Raksnis Did you watch the complete episode or skip through it? 16 gauge was the thickness of the aluminum for the small holes (which I mentioned), and I mentioned why I had to jump up to the thicker metal which was to control the heat that went into the lid itself. This kept the warping to a minimum and allowed for very little post weld finish work.
It a Nissan just fill the holes with body filler and send to paint.