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🔥 Viewer Request: DC Welding THIN Aluminum (with Everlast PowerTIG 250EX)
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- čas přidán 21. 09. 2017
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A few weeks ago we posted a video on how to weld Aluminum with DC. Overall we had really good feedback. However, there were some that still called us out.
The whole point of the video was to show that if you have a DC only machine and need to weld Aluminum in a pinch, it can be done by grabbing a bottle of Helium. Now, Helium is much hotter than Argon, so this is best suited for thicker material. We were called out because we used 1/4" Aluminum and, according to some viewers, this can't be done with "thin" Aluminum.
Okay, okay... I get where the argument comes from. HOWEVER, we are here to show you today that you can most definitely weld thinner material. We threw some 1/8" Aluminum into an outside corner joint and gave it a go.
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I'm glad it's not just me. I don't remember learning the whole AC, 5,000 amps, 100% argon stuff. I remember learning to weld it in DC with amp control and helium... I'm glad this video is out there.
DC Aluminum welding with Helium is also used for deeper weld penetration. It is used very often for making vacuum chambers with thick plates of 1" thickness or more.
The original Heliarc process was developed in 1941 by Russell Meredith of Northrup Aircraft specifically to weld aluminum and magnesium. It was DC with helium for the shielding gas. No reason it shouldn't work now as it did then. Then again, if you've got an AC machine with all the fancy features there's not point to using DC with helium.
Good stuff, thanks.
Even with AC on a machine DC and helium can be useful when you need to weld thicker materials than your machine may be able to handle on AC.
and it was dc +...big electrodes
Can this be done with 100% argon? Did you use 100% helium or a mix?
Yes there is sir, Deeper penetration; and Helium will make the aluminum much harder and the strength is much Higher even on AC.
Hello Bob, I've mentioned this procedure to co-workers and they do not believe that it can be done good video. When working in aerospace General Dynamics Space Systems in San Diego we had to certify with this procedure, actually Wyatt Swain, Gordy Lundquist, Chuck Meareasu, Ernest Levert (AWS past president) and Ralph Moreno were the welding engineers on the various projects. Some of the most educational welding time in my 43 year career to date.
Any advice or direction you can give me as to where I can get some education or training with the DC aluminum process. For certification.
Bob Moffatt makes the best welding videos, period. He reminds me of my dad, who was a world class welder and an interesting character, too.
Hell.Yes. Thanks Bob!!! This was a great video!! I am pretty sure that it is the only one of its kind of CZcams right now.
Hey Bob Moffat love the videos on aluminum welding with helium on dc. Can you please do a video on aluminum pipe with helium on dc? What preps and steps needed to be done? Thanks
Mr Moffatt is a true master of this craft.
This is real progress. I have to mention one serious problem with Helium and DC TIG that I experienced, trying to do this maybe five years ago: The inverter machine I had just would NOT light up in Helium! There was the HF spark but the main arc would not happen. I tried and tried. This hurt b/c it was a few hundred just to get one little bottle of Helium and that first fill. Presently I'm having great results mixing He and Ar on the spot. The manual for my present machine (Everlast) mentions this, suggests a maximum amount of He to use.... SO, I'm thinking some modern machines don't have the Open Circuit Voltage TO light up in pure Helium! I'm wondering if there's a number, or should I just try to buy an actual HELIARC brand machine or something? I don't think the manufacturers are addressing this, b/c we've all got the idea that you NEED A.C. to weld Aluminum, period.
Leonard Pearlman I Don't Have Too Much Experience With This. But, The Only Time I've Had A Hard Time Striking Arcs Is Because My Tungsten Wasn't Clean Enough. But I Also Know That Helium Has A High Ionization Energy.
Thank you Bob. I appreciate that you explore different ways to get things done.
Thinking outside the helmet!
I’m an admitted “grinder” trying to become a “WELDER”.
Your teaching and experience is greatly appreciated!!
Thats unbelievable result on the 3mm angle piece. I wanna weld like you!
I like your moves, and I like your style.
Thanks for including metric.
Thanks for the video and great explanation. I have a DC only machine. My budget and working with mild steel for art works made an AC machine out of my world. I've continued to wonder about missing the opportunity to use Al. Now you have added the possibility of using Al with my machine.
Thanks for sharing another great video with us Bob! And that weld looks good to me for the conditions . However my interest are being able to weld magnesium (chain saw engine cases and parts). Would you please do a session on that for me. Thanks in advance, Gary
@bob- so what you're saying is, it's trade off of skill and material: more skill & gas and less shiny machines. I just bought a little forney 100ST(Sick/TIG) to do small repairs using the old heliarc process in addition to argon. I'd like to build a glove box to experiment with total immersion.
Thank you for the education on TIG welding Aluminum on DC.
So during your show were you on
DCEP OR DCEN ? Thanks for all
You're time. 👍👍👍
DCEP or else it would be splatting all over the place
please show the inside (backside) of the weld thanks
Nothing there but my tacks. No melt through. Didn't want it.
thank you !
Yes please/
Try the lay wire tecknek and keep a steady push on the wire so that it stays in the puddle or it will melt back and cause you to play catch-up'
And if you're consuming helium like mad you might as well buy a AC/DC machine because helium is expensive. But what about switching the leads only for thin pieces, and using argon?
You Da Man with any welder!! 👍
Next video id like to see is MCAW. Im welding 1" plate and have used FCAW-S, FCAW-G, MIG and just got a spool of 1/16" fabcor 86r metal core. Running from a 1975 lincoln SAM400 @ 31.5 V & 260 IPM
Steel beams or battleships?
Thanks for the education on this
"I'm Bob mopette"
Hello, I'm from Brazil and I'm also a welder. I would like to know if you know the process of welding aluminum, magnesium and other alloys with the tip of the bulging tungsten electrode (round tip). Or do you just use the electrode with the thin end? thankful if you respond.
Alexxsousaaa Manson I Know That The Type Of Tungsten Depends On What You Do. I Use Ceriated Tungsten And I Grind A Point On The End. But Not A Huge Pencil Sharp One. Just A Small Stubby Point.
Bronson Stephens here when I use the sharp point of the crack in the welding mainly in aluminum tubes. already with the bulging point does not happen. Can you give me a tip?
Alexxsousaaa Manson Change The Type Of Tungsten You Use. There Are A Few Kinda Like Ceriated, Thoriated etc.
Bronson Stephens I'm using the electrode with lanthanum is cerium. But I did not get results. we decided to stop for health reasons.
Can you scratch start on aluminum with helium?
Yes
Cheers Bob. Welding appriciated.
Great to see this, thanks. Very impressive that you did it out of the box.
PERFECT !!! PLEASE WITH ARGON IT IS IMPOSSIBLE ?
I know this video is a bit old at this point but with the price of helium these days i would love to see this done with argon and dc+
In today's market helium is scarce or expensive. Would straight argon make the grade on thin/thick aluminum...
I would like to see a strength comparison of gas welding aluminum vs tig welding it, and get advice on the type and shade of glass needed to safely gas weld it.
Gas welding is not good for structual welding tig is better.
Hello, my beautiful videos, for your vast experience and possible to do aluminum welding using dc machine with good quality? the torch to be connected at the positive or negative pole? welding aluminum in DC will not spend my entire electrode especially if the amperage is high? I'm sorry for so many questions and I'm getting started on soldering aluminum
Hola bob se pueden soldar todos los tipos de aluminio con esa técnica o solo 6100?
Saludos
6061 con varillas 4043 (no 5356!) y helio puro. Saludos desde Canadá.
This method doesn't seem to work for me. I don't get the silver puddle. The final weld has oxidation and a rough surface. I've tried grinding the metal to make sure it's clean and differing flow rates of helium. Higher flow rates help, but I can never get a truly clean weld like in the video unless I use argon. Any ideas? Am I missing something? All I can think of is contaminated helium. It is a brand new bottle, it would have had air in it before it was filled for the first time.
Thank you again sir. Great information.
Damn nice tig!
Hi Bob,
What effect do the pulse and frequency have on the DC weld process? Thanks for the information.
Awesome video. Can it be done without a foot pedal? (Scratch Start, no pulse control)? Thanks.
I've welded aluminum foil using dc helium 60hz
I wonder if HZ becomes irrelevant in DC.
There's no such thing as hz in DC. Hz is the measurement for AC oscillations per second. DC doesn't oscillate, so no hz.
ian thecleaner yes there is.
I have some very thin aluminium profiles which is want to weld to each other , is the tungsten side +ve or -ve and would pulse make a difference?
Could you weld aluminum sheet metal with this process ? ( about 20 gauge )
Possible. Be careful of amperage and travel speed.
A clean piece of stainless as a backer could possibly help also.
could also run DCEP with argon 1/8 tungstin i was welding tonight in class doing this and i was able to get decent welds on evan 1/8 thick but on the thing stuff probably 14 gauge i was able to do some super nice welds running auto pulse at 33-60Hz acted alot like AC 60hz once the puddle was going but there was a learning curve for sure. blew my teachers mind too.
Dude did even listen to the video? What did he say ? Yes if your good enough you can weld .5 mm thick it's your amperage
What about sheet metal thin?
Iona Everlast a while back the machine worked fine but never could get in contact with anybody at the company to sell me any kind of spare parts or any information there was no customer service whatsoever
I was told aluminium only run on AC up untill now. Is it something new you decide to try it?
Can you stick weld aluminum with an inverter machine without pulse wave function or high frequency start if that makes sense? I have never welded. Looking for a machine that is great on metel outside and yet capable of doing a little aluminum occasionally.
Since hulium pushes about 1.5 the amperage, Can i do 1/8 aluminum on say 180 amps with argon (approx 1.5x your 115)?
Is it possible to do dc tig weld on some 1/16 tube?
Aluminum tubing? If so, it's possible but thats getting very thin. Better off with Ac when you get that thin on aluminum. Not impossible though
Would this work for 0.63 thickness aluminum? Thx
Great work man🍾👍🏻
I am eating crow for sure. And please don't say "dab dab dab"....that was your predecessor, and you're a way better tig weldor than him....
How thin do think you can go? I'd also be interested to see if it can be done with pure argon. That opens up a few "ina pinch" doors.
But so far, you have proven who the teacher here is!
You can go super thin with this method if you can manage to keep track of the puddle that low. The arc is very different from an argon arc. You can weld with Argon with a slightly different setup: czcams.com/video/CHkx8cca-SQ/video.html
+Weld.com Bob should've just said, "shut up and watch, stupid, let me show you something...." I think this will be worth some experimenting to dig a guy out of a jam. You guys changed my perspective.
Didn't you know everyone on the internet is an expert and let's see you weld aluminum foil
Bod can I tig aluminum with a gas of 98/2 Please
Gracias, mi maquina inverter es solo DC
Can you mig weld thick or thin aluminum on DC helium or just tig?
Great video a s usual, cheers guys
Semper FI Bob
Thanks for the great video. What kind of regulator is needed for the helium? Dan
The same regulator you use for Argon can be used with Helium.
Hello mr moffatt first let me say love your work, i have a question i am building a 1990 mustang notchback and the turbo kit that i baught came with 1/16in round pipe very thin pipe i want to get rid of most of the silicon couplers and clamps for a tighter seal i will be using dc scratch start what gas would you recommend for such thin aluminum, love to see you weld up some ebay turbo pipeing with dc scratch start, love your videos thanks for sharing your knowledge.
What is DCEP?? Can you explain please? i don't know. Sorry my english i am spanish
Direct Current Electrode Positive
can you please do a overhead video use 7018. need tips on that
We'll add it to the list.
Hi! Nice video like allways, I have a question, works the helium from balloons for DC tig welding? Is the only I can find from here. Thanks!
einsamerwolf helium is helium 👍
??? Warning: I've tried this with a few power supplies, some will NOT LIGHT UP in Helium! Everlast suggests part helium mix I think, but not pure helium. You might need a HELIARC brand machine, or something.
Have read in an old book about welding: There used to be such a thing as starting with Argon, then changing to Helium! Also maybe starting on a copper block to get the electrode hot. I have had great results from arbitrarily mixing in a little Helium, having two bottles and two flowmeters, and maybe a water-cooled torch, there's a lot of plumbing! Part Helium is a wonder, it makes a HUGE difference.
Gotta get that silver line down the bead.
I'm Having A Really Hard Time With 1/16" Aluminum Lap Welds. Can Someone Help.
Can it be done with lift start and without a foot pedal? I got the smaller everlast 140st and im just wondering if its possible for me to weld aluminum with my smaller simpler machine.
It's possible, but lift arcing Helium at low amps is more difficult.
is it DC straight polarity or reverse polarity?
Could you do the same but with argon?
You can DC weld Aluminum with Argon, but you need to be in DCEP. You also need a fat electrode and very thin material so it doesn't instantly burn up on you.
Is it possible to do this with pure argon rather than helium?
Could be possible, but from what i've tried before using argon was make the weld process slower
you are awesome
Bob moffet is a cult hero?
tasty work
Why not just use the arc to melt and meld the metal alone?
Aluminum needs filler metal or it will be extremely prone to cracking.
helium.is 300 a bottle no way that kills it ill have to buger it with argon until i get ac i guess
can you use pure argon and DC
With a slightly different setup: czcams.com/video/CHkx8cca-SQ/video.html
Weld.com
No reason someone couldn't back the piece with some stainless angle if they were worried on thin material and only had dc.
Quick question. I have an old slat turning plow where some of the slats are broken. What would you recommend to weld them back together with?
mandolinman2006 How Big Are They?
Bronson Stephens They're probably about 1.5" wide and maybe 1/8" thick. I'm thinking a hard cast rod would do the job.
He still hasnt mentioned why he's using helium instead of argon?
Dadul Ludad the helium is for heat.
Yes, he has. The machine has DC output only.
Welding thin aluminum with dc tig has already been done on weld.com. Watch it here:
czcams.com/video/CHkx8cca-SQ/video.html
and here is thicker aluminum part 1 & 2:
czcams.com/video/H_DwA0vzKXI/video.html
czcams.com/video/7RyuLEdhyrA/video.html
The premise is wrong. The idea is cost savings right? Well, helium is super expensive compared to straight argon. You'll pay more for a bottle of helium than you will for an AHP AlphaTig 200. Not saying you can't do it technically but there truly is no economic justification particularly in the long run.
I think we might want Heliarc more for technical reasons anyway. This is discussed in some detail in some Weldingtipsandtricks videos.
I paid 70 bucks for my bottle of helium and argon costs me 50
Typically the price of helium is 3X that of argon per cu-ft. Also you usually need to use 3X the flow of helium vs. Argon. That's 9X the price for gas. I don't consider that to be insignificant.
SATAMAN Schmidt if you buy uhp helium it is expensive but I've never needed it or noticed a difference. I run no more than 25 cfh.
ARCSTREAMS I thought i paid 80 but I looked at my receipt and it was 70.
why you changed your hood Bob ?
With Helium at low amps sometimes auto darkening hoods have a hard time. Didn't want to risk getting flashed.
thank you i buy helium ;D have i dc 195 amp stamos 4in 1 ;) DC
I want to see a butt weld on dc setting that'll be the true testimony.
What tungsten did you use e3, green,or ?
E3
E3
Eric Nichols Just a reminder, Never use 'pure' tungsten with an Inverter welder
That's what I've heard
👍👍👍👍
Why are people using everjunk welders? Just buy a damn Miller or Lincoln....
lol, what reason do you have to call everlast welders junk? Do you have any reasonable justification?
That looked like it was a bit not quite corner fillet, right? Just making sure. I tried doing 1/8 in. outside corner fillet weld and wow I need some more practice.😄 Maybe lighten up my lense a bit.
helium.is 300 a bottle no way that kills it ill have to buger it with argon until i get ac i guess
helium.is 300 a bottle no way that kills it ill have to buger it with argon until i get ac i guess