Fender Rolling Miatas (FM Live)
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- čas přidán 25. 03. 2021
- This week on FM Live, Keith Tanner discusses the art of Fender Rolling! In this episode, Keith shows us everything from theory to basic techniques for rolling and pulling the fenders on your Miata.
Original live video recorded 3-25-21. Join us on FB every Thursday at 2:00 PM Mountain Time for new live content, or subscribe to our Facebook to see all of our Miata related videos!
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Best fender roll video I have seen.
Thanks! Hope it was helpful!
One more thing to consider is that the liner tabs can curl up and push into the sheet metal, creating high spots when viewed from the outside. Same thing can happen if you’re not careful with the top of the roller wheel.
Also giving the inside of the lip a wipe to prevent dirt or grime from getting trapped is good practice.
Good point. You want to keep pushing on the lip itself and not the backside of the fender. I’ve never had the tabs dimple the fender but I can see how it could be done.
Do you recommend cutting them?
@@cyboogie1710 You don’t have to on Miatas since the fender metal is so thin you can bend it forward, roll the fender, then bend it back. I usually see the issue I warned about with some other cars where the liner tabs are very reinforced.
That being said, you can totally cut them off if you’re POSITIVE you’re never going to run liners on the car. Or maybe if you’re running 245+ tires with aggressive offset, then you might have to cut them off to clear.
Me personally, liners or no liners, I’d try to leave the tabs and bend them up enough to clear the tires. (Everything I just said applies to NA/NB, I don’t have personal experience with other chassis)
Definitely Bronze for ND wheels. Blue and bronze make a statement!
Travis didn't listen. He ended up getting a set of black 17x8 Kogeki wheels lol
It is worth thinking about hydroplaning resistance with wide tires. A Miata on 205's has more tire width per ton than the new Corvette. Mine on 225s, well, reminds me to take it easy in heavy rain. It's still worth it, but I'm in the slow lane doing the speed limit when the skies open up.
I ran the car in this video in the Targa Newfoundland. In 2011, we had to race through a literal hurricane. On 225s, the car never hydroplaned. You can make it work with the right tires. If you're on Rivals, you might as well park the car at that point :)
Great thumbnail!
Oh and Bronze or Dark Grey for the Kogekis. If you really want to get crazy, color match the spokes to that gorgeous dark blue on the body, and leave the rim/barrel bronze or grey.
Travis didn't listen. He ended up getting a set of black 17x8 Kogeki wheels lol
Good video. You mentioned you've done this on an MG. I've got a '70 Triumph Gt6 I'll need to roll, with a small pull. These cars have a lot of metal to move! There's two layers of 18g spot welded together forming that lip. Can that roller handle that without a huge pull, or is it a hammer and dolly job? Or maybe both? Thanks!
I just bought an Eastwood puller. I was looking at the cheaper knockoffs, but there were too many reviews of them stripping out and stuff like that, so I just spent more on the Eastwood
Eastwood is the go-to!
How do you protect the inner lip after rolling, since it’ll catch dirt, tire build up and water?
Keith, great vids buddy! Now for my question: I’ve got a brand new (2021) ND2 Miata Sport and I’m curious what maximum width tire will fit without any fender mods. I’m assuming from what I just saw in fender rolling vid that I won’t be going with 245-45-17s, but that opinion could change depending on your answer. And would you advise for or against going to 17s (My stock are 16s)? Now looking at the numbers I am thinking this is an trivial question, but I’m still anxious to hear your opinion. Thanks, Tom KC2QAC
Great video Keith! One question: how far to compress the bump stops when doing the fender clearance check? I ask this because how much they compress is dependent on where the jack is placed... as you move it further inward on the control arm the subframe takes more of the load and you get less compression. Is this critical? Thanks!
Compress as far as you can, but with no spring they're going to be pretty close to fully compressed if you have them carrying the full corner weight.
Very helpful! How much camber are you running on the NA front?
It doesn't matter, you will use the same technique to make sure the fenders clear the tire. I don't recall the specific alignment settings on this car at the moment.
How do you keep the bloody steering from turning when rolling/pulling the fronts? Especially on the right side. The steering interlock is completely asymmetrical. Rolling the left side was easy enough on my NB as the steering lock clicks on not far off center and can be worked with, but the steering doesn't click to a stop going the other direction until more that a full turn of steering input.
If I were having trouble with that, I'd probably just use one hand to counter the twist. The steering was not locked on the car being used for the demo. Since most of the work is being done at the top of the fender opening, there isn't much turning force being applied to the hub in that case.
It's important to point out that many SCCA Solo II (Autocross) classes allow fender "rolling" but prohibit fender "pulling". Check the rule book if you plan to modify your fenders and compete in SCCA events.
Excellent point. Before you do anything to a competition car, check the rulebook!
Do you recommend trying to re fit some sort of fender liners/splash guards after doing this.
Splash guards are recommend for street cars.You should be able to keep your factory splash guards when rolling your fenders if you are careful not to distort the mounting points when rolling the fenders.
great vid..quick question. I have an 08 prht with stock wheels and tires. I want to purchase your stage 2 suspension kit. I have 20mm wheel spacers all around. Will I need to roll the fenders?
If you're not rubbing now, you won't rub with our suspension kit. The suspension doesn't change the arc of the wheel, it just changes where it sits in that arc.
A lot of people my self included tend to run a slight stretch for increased sidewall stiffness and turn in. Ie: 205 on an 8” and 225 on a 9”. Have you noticed any steering negatives running a 245 on a 9” wheel?
Stretching like that stiffens the sidewall, which is great for track use but has drawbacks on the street because you lose compliance and the ability to deal with real-world bumps. For street use, I'll usually go an inch narrower: 205 on a 7", 225 on an 8" and 245 on a 9". This car is in street mode so this is my preferred wheel size. It still turns just fine.
Also, there's no way these tires would fit under this body without flares on a 10" wheel so that wouldn't be an option anyhow.
Loved the video. I have a couple of questions.
1. Do the Fiatas have similar issues to the aluminum fendered NDs?
2. Anything wrong with not running fender liners?
If the Fiata has aluminum front fenders - we don't have one here to check right now - then similar care should be taken with them.
On the older cars, the downside to not running fender liners is basically noise. On the ND, it is often part of the engine bay so running without them can throw a lot of junk into places you may not want it. Luckily, they're also usually pretty easy to retain.
@@FlyinMiataVideo so on an NA, it won't be a problem? I dd my car
@@dylanmonnier3559 We'd recommend putting them back on.
@@FlyinMiataVideo do you just attach them but without the tabs you fold in?
@@dylanmonnier3559 You can usually still attach to the tabs with a bit of creativity.
If I'm taking out my fender liners should I undercoat the inside of my fenders and the frame of the car?
There's no "frame" to speak of on the Miata unibody. If you're running as a normal street car, I'd want to retain the fender liners just to minimize all the junk that will build up in there anyhow.
I've got some 15x9j et0 and wanting to fit them to my 2000 nb1. They are an aggressive offset and I'm just wondering if I could pull the fenders enough to fit them under the fenders. Thanks!
With enough rolling and pulling, yes! We've even seen certain people fit a 15x10 under heavily pulled and rolled fenders - expect some trial and error on a wheel that large, though.
@@FlyinMiataVideo thanks for the help 👍. Can't beat the miata community.
On the NDs, two questions: First, do we remove the front fender liners prior to rolling the fenders? Second, if so then once the metal “tabs” are rolled flat against the fender wall I assume there’s no way to slot the liners behind them so do we then need to trim the liners or secure them some other way?
What is done with the fender liners is really dependent on the severity of the fender rolling. To answer the specific questions:
#1 - We do not typically fully remove the fender liners. Usually only remove the clips where the liner attaches to the portion of the fender being rolled.
#2 - If the tabs are rolled flat against the inside of the fender, then we typically trim the outboard edge of the fender liner until it is not at risk of being contacted by the tire. There is usually enough rigidity of the liner that loosing the fender mounting points does not really matter.
Hope that helps, feel free to give us a call if you have any other questions!
Upon fender rolling the rear fenders on the ND, the heat from the heat gun was high enough to melt the adhesive on the stripping between the two layers of steel. Should I be worried about water pooling between those two layers of steel and rusting now? The paint/anodization is not cracked.
We haven't come across this. I'd want to take a good look at everything to get an idea of what you're facing - remember that water likes to go down, so it's not going to pool unless there's somewhere for it to rest. It certainly wouldn't hurt to try to spread some seam sealer along the opening.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Tried, that, seemed to be holding up okay last I looked. I don't know if some of the mag-chloride (I'm in CO too), has eaten at it at all. Will have to check it out when I go to put my summers back on. Curious to hear your thoughts after you check it out though. Thank you!
Is there a risk of letting water in through the door seal when the fender liner has been removed?
Thanks
Not at all, the fender liner is not waterproof. The door seal works alone.
Hes right about rolling vs pulling there is a difference…
Rolling is what you intend to do until you overshoot your offset and have to resort to pulling :)
What tire size is perfect for the NA Miata after you roll the tires?
You can rock 0 offset
Im buying new rims and they have a 25mm offset, im assuming that ill have to roll my fenders? Ill be running a 205 50r 15.
Bronze wheels ALL THE WAY!
Maybe. It's going to be close enough that it will matter how wide those wheels are (I'm assuming 8") and what tires you run and your alignment.
@@FlyinMiataVideo oh yeah, sorry, 8ins wide and i was thinging on the conti ecs.
What would be the widest tire you can fit on a NA stock fender with just a fender rolling? ( running -2.5 degree camber in the front which can affect the size slightly)
That depends on wheel width and offset and tire make. An RE-71 will fit differently than a Rival, and the same tire on a wider wheel will need more room. These are 245s on a +36 15x9 and they fit. They do not fit on a 15x10 +25.
The next step up is usually a 275/35-15, which is not easy to get under the fender.
@@FlyinMiataVideo I run bfgoodrich r1s 225/45/15 on a 15x8 rim with +28mm offset for my track tire. I had to roll the front fenders slightly but don't have any rubbing. The rear was able to remain standard without any rolling. I run a 14x7 +28mm offset with 195/60/14 falken 660's for my daily tire as my miata struggles for grip with all seasons on it.
Just looking for ideas for my next set of tires for what I can fit under the car without cutting or pulling my fenders at all. Good to know 245 under a stock fender is possible with some rolling and negitive camber (as well as small spring coilovers).
@@FlyinMiataVideo not only is a 275 difficult to fit, ive got friends that have bent rims at that low profile too
Different subject but please FlyingMiata do you have any headlights for a Mazda Miata Mx-5 NB 1999? I need the driver and passenger side.
Unfortunately, we do not carry bulbs or housings for 1999-00 Miatas at the moment.
@@FlyinMiataVideoah ok thank you.
Should I take out my fender liner in total... is it okay to?
yes i never run liners on any miatas
The fender liners will help keep moisture out of the places you don't want it, but it really depends on your local weather and how you use your car. It's personal preference, but we'd keep them in possible.
Thank you for the video. Can you tell me what's the biggest tire I can run on a 15 x 7 and 1/2 rim I believe it's a 40 mm offset
Your limitation there will be your wheel width. 205 would be a good fit.
A 225/45R15 tire's rim width range is 7-8.5 inches so I believe that's the answer.
A 245/40R15 tire's rim width range is 8-9.5 inches. TireRack's website is handy for all this kind of info. Go to the exact tire and size you want and click on Specs.
@@RCotaku69 It's fairly normal in Miata track use to run a slightly wider wheel than those recommendations. 225 on a 9" is very common. You can put a 225 on a 7.5" wheel but the sidewall will not be very well supported.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Yes, I have 225/45R16 on 9" Storm S1 wheels right now, but I had to tell TireRack that it was for "track use only" to get them to mount them. The OP, MrSprintcat, was asking for the "biggest tire" he can run on a 15x7.5 rim. Is my answer, 225/45R15, incorrect?
Also, I have no experience with Autocross, but I've heard that in some class where the wheel size is limited to the stock size, some people squeeze a 235/40R17 on the ND's stock 17x7 wheels. With that in mind, it may be possible to squeeze a 245/40R15 on a 15x7.5, but I know you wouldn't recommend it, and neither would I.
@@RCotaku69 There are some cantilevered bias ply slicks used in E Production that are designed to fit a 7" wheel if we want to go for maximum possible. We used them 18 years ago on one of our track Miatas.
But we're function driven, and the widest street legal tire we'd recommend for those 7.5" wheels is a 205. You can go wider but it likely won't get you much worthwhile. There have been a few 225 vs 205 experiments done on 15x7 Spec Miata setups in the past.
How about running 235 at the front, and 245 at the rear without rolling, on the ND ????
You will have to work the rear of the ND to get 245s under there, although it is alignment-sensitive. We like a square setup because it's better balanced so it's worth doing the work for the fronts.
Thank you 11
Appreciate Keith...but first, I need to get a Miata. I keep telling the Mrs., but she just doesn't seem to understand. Step 1: Get Miata. ; Step 2: Never hear the end of it. ; Step 3; ? ; Step 4; Profit...well in this case enjoy every drive.
Find someone to give her a test ride. She might be hooked!
Keith Tanner: Fender Fanatic. 😂
China Tires?
Taiwan, actually. Maxxis isn’t a high profile name like Michelin or Pirelli but Miata track day people should know the name. They may have been the first to offer the 245/40-15 size in a street tire.
What’s the offset and wheel size tho
Keith's car is wearing a 15x9" +36 offset 6UL wheel, wrapped in 245/40/15 tires.
@@FlyinMiataVideo yeah I see my problem is my offset
Trying to run a 205 50 on a 15x9 0 offset it fits but it just barely catches the bumper and on return full lock grabs inside the mud flap but I think I may have the car a little low still and my alignments every direction but straight
@@daylindrake768 Yeah, that's asking a lot to fit without some body mods.
@@FlyinMiataVideo oh I have body mods haha rolled and pulled to widen original body lines i was young and dumb and took all the suspension out by just slamming it to the ground and tucking 195 45 15x9s im talking pack of ciggs between frame rail and ground and wheels tucked inside fenders with zero rub such an idiot now I got xidias and rebuilding to nasa spec
@@daylindrake768 Very cool! Good luck on the project!
Biggest takeaway from today's FM live is that Kieth is Canadian 🤔
"This isn't a Jeep" that's right, only manly cars here!!!
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