Estrid the Chain Veil cEDH deck tech
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- čas přidán 11. 08. 2018
- This is a bant Chain veil deck tech video for cEDH. Astrid the masked can untap a lot of different permanents. That will untap the chain veil.
Tapped out list - Estrid the Chain veil
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bant-c...
Music - Cielo
• Huma-Huma - Cielo (roy... - Krátké a kreslené filmy
I love coming back and watching these older videos and just seeing how far the cEDH card-pool has come.
So generally I’m not a huge fan of playing infinite combos...however, making an infinite army of 🐿 sounds like the coolest thing I’ve ever seen
I love how your videos are concise and brief. Very clear and properly presented. Best channel for someone getting into cedh or wants to be familiar with it.
That is how I just want to consume MTG content. Or content on youtube in general. Give me the information, BOMB BOMB BOMB thank you! Personally that is all I need. So I guess that is how I make em.
Glad I am not the only one keen on that.
@@cedhtv You should do a deck tech an updated version of this deck.😁
I love how this guys makes it sound so complicated to combo off with chain veil when it's not enchant chain activate and repeat
I’ve seen one other explanation video from you. Top notch tutorial and I like that you show us with your own physical cards.
another route could be use her first ability like 1000 times then just flicker her one time and then she can use her +2, say 100 times and get 200 loyalty then just ult as many times as u wanted. its a less convoluted way and easier to explain
That is right, however redundancy is key in EDH so both ways should be worked into the deck!
I love how well the step are explained, thank you!
People are a little confused when I put a mask on a land instead of one of my creatures, until a few turns later when I'm making up around 20 or more mana in a turn 😄
Thx for the deck tech! Good stuff, really enjoy your videos.
cEDH from 5 years ago is wild
Estrid the Masket and Shane Vale is one helluva combo! Keep up the good work! Hilsner fra en danskjävel!
*_This comes to show how incredibly busted estrid is._*
You just gained a new sub :) love your videos. Very informative and easy to understand. Would reslly love to see your take on aminatou too!
Ps. I love your accent hahaha
Glad to read that my accent is allowed to make cEDH content. Welcome to the channel.
I never thought to let her die via her minus abilities, and I never knew about that caveat about The Chain Veil either. I already brought Estrid and plan on buying the chain veil
Nice video man!! A cool replacement for Arch of Orzaca can be Mikokoro,Center of Sea so u can force opponents draw the entire deck :) or use hurricane to hit all players and direct the damage from you to Estrid
Love the awesome content dude!
This is so cool! Good job w/ the video
I've wanted to do this once I saw estrid, glad I now have a list to reference
I hope it helps you.
@@cedhtv only recently found your channel yesterday while looking for cedh game play, your deck techs have been pretty helpful, this one and the mimeoplasm ones especially, gives me two new decks to play around with
i know im very late to the show with this video, but it came across my feed today. a few new cards have been printed that really help this deck, namely sanctum of eternity. it functions similarly to forge of heores, in that it gets around the issue with using the minus ability to enchant chain veil by returning it to hand. also, another wincon could possibly be using dreams of the dead to reanimate a karmic guide, which reanimates a thassa's oracle or lab man. since dreams of the dead is a blue enchantment, it doesnt matter if it gets milled because of how the ult works. and if you drew either the karmic guide, or the oracle, you are generating mana regardless, so you could just cast them anyways. im definitely gonna be building this and seeing how it functions in the current meta
Oh. My. God. This is brilliant!
Edit: Just imagine if you did this while dumping the enchantments onto creature bodys or comboing with Sigil of The Empty Throne!!!!
imagine pulling omniscience with the -7. Game over.
Got there! Sweet stuff.
Very good content! Keep it up :D
Love the way you say Thrasios
Tidewater Minion equipped with Illusionist's Bracers does all the untap things you wish generating infinite mana, damage (Tim Decks)
Also, any proliferate card, any planeswalker destruction spell, any flicker, etc can get you there as well
Found a win-con with estrid chainveil finally. Thought I'd share: ultimate estrid infinite times with chain veil plays. Once you have emptied your deck, get back the enchantment "back from the brink" then use it to get back "grand abolisher" (this is to protect the rest). Use back from the brink to get back laboratory maniac next. Then flashback "think twice" to win! I also put memory's journey in just in case they try to hit my grave with exile effects
I guess that works too :)
Ik it's been three years but you can do the infinite without the land. You just do the loop until she's up to a loyalty amount divisible by 7. You make 3 mana per chain veil in this situation so you'd need to get her loyalty to 14 by activating her - 1 once and then untapping 6 times. You should have 15 mana up to activate chain veil twice, ult twice, then recast her
Is this video 3 years old now. Damn I have been doing thiw for a while now. But yeah I haven't really looked at this commander for a while.
@@cedhtv I'm just looking into making a chaos deck where I change permanents to other things and fuck with state based land removal lol. Enchanted evening style and using her as commander seems like a good choice
You could try Volrath's curse on one of your creatures to curb the loyalty problem too. Acts as a free sac outlet for estrid
I really want to see this decklist in action !!!
You could also run the 2 relevant Eldrazi that shuffle your graveyard into your deck. And since you probably be putting them in your graveyard through Estrids Ultimate, they will instead shuffle all non enchantments from your graveyard(since they will all be on the field). Also good dumps for your infinite mana, if you don't run omniscience.
That is an interesting idea. Something that might need testing. If you have one enchantment that say ETB: draw a card you will draw your entire deck. Hum.
Nice man :)
I've got an another, probably really stupid, idea for a combo.
In a similar vein the Earthcraft+Clique line;
1- Go Infinite with Estrid and Chainveil as normal.
2- Dump Mana into Soothsaying to stack your deck with the following cards: Helix Pinnacle, Humility, Solemnity, Decree of Silence, Moat, Stony Silence, Stasis
3- Ultimate Estrid
4- Pass
Nice video! I am looking foward to get this deck. Will you upload some gameplay with the deck?
There is a tournament over cockatrice coming up. So I am only playing one specific deck only over and over whenever I can, and its a deck I plan to compete with.
However its only something of two weeks left until the big day. After that I might.
I like using the infinite mana for blue suns zenith to kill everyone. If it’s in the grace use Miraris conjecture
Power artifact can easily set this up
This is sick. And you already made a cEDH deck out of a new commander. Do you think the other commanders have a chance of going cedh?
Yes i just made a video about what makes a commander cEDH viable. And some 2018 commander came up in that.
This is interesting but really want to see najeelas blue moon stax deck tech.
you could put a mask on forge of heroes and when you +2 and untap you can put an extra counter on estird
Yes. But you don't need it.
Allright man, could you like... please stop making these awesome vids cuz I just keep wanting to make new commander decks. Thanksfor your vids man.
So to get this straight, If I have a planeswalker, and I kill it and I"ve activated Chain veil 4 times as long as its a "new" planeswalker (reentering the field) I can use its abilities 1+(number of times chain veil has activated) that turn?
That is correct :)
almost, the "new" planeswalker thing is on the +1counter land, chainveil does its thing anytime.. I was confused about this at first too i had to watch again
That's why Teferi is such a good general in cedh
You can also use artifact auras 😉
I haven't experimented with that jet. I think my list will change a lot over time. The cEDH community don't have that much experience playing land auras and I wanna see where that leads me. Currently I do play steal artifact to snatch sol rings.
Nice video. How good is this compared to other cEDH decks?
Hard to say! Currently I don't know her power level. She is getting a lot of hype and a lot of people are even sceptic that she is good. I think she is good. But I don't know how good. She is a bit strange. She is the first commander that utilize utopia sprawl to this extent. And desire other land auras that increase mana. And the cEDH community don't have that much experience in that area. WE HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE of how good artifacts and mana dorks are.
So we will have to see.
cEDH TV Thanks for the great response. My tasigur control deck is having issues in an artifact heavy meta (breya, jhoria, karn). I have hate available in sultai, but i need my own artifacts to win.
Im thinking of using estrid to rock the meta with energy flux, titania song, stony silence.
I actually play a CEDH estrid deck, I personally love it and think it’s the most fun ever.
I also run flash hulk and some other goodness. However I don’t think it’s the best and it’s definitely a grindy deck. I definitely need a blue player at the table to counter the first combo from someone els or it will loose
Lol rip flashhulk
Man, all you people saying "wow so much set up, you need multiple enchanted lands and stuff!" Saying you need multiple enchanted lands to pull this off is like saying an elf deck needs elfs to go off...you will inevitably have them anyways...
dalton bressler so you’re saying I can play more than one land per turn like elves? You also ignore the fact that besides estrid’s ability, you need enchantments that can actually target lands... yeah good luck with that in an actual cedh game by turn 3.
@@whasabi1313 my decklist has 12 land enchants ans plenty of card draw. If you dont enchant a land by turn 1 or 2 with this deck then you should not be playing this deck...t1 untapper or land with sprawl/wild growth/abundant growth/ect. T2 use the ramp for card draw or more enchants or lockdown.
@@whasabi1313
t1 land-arbor elf
T2 land-utopia sprawl-tap and untap with arbor and get 4 mana. Play enchantress.
T3 land-market festival-tap and untap. 6 mana. Play estrid. +2 retap sprawl and festival lands. 3+2+2 floating.
7 extra mana to cast spells on t3 after casting an enchantment. Drawing a free card and casting commander. This is a very typical line of play for this deck
THX
What’s about Flickerform or Disappear? Can be found by Heliods Pilgrim and can enchant him to tutor recursive.
Those two cards are a bit expensive and only good when you wanna do your combo run. It is better to minimize your overall CMC curve in the deck and make if flow better. So I think they are to expensive and unnecessary.
I love this set up but I think Shane wants his veil back :P
No it belongs to ME! :P
Wouldn't you be able to use something like grasp of fate or O ring off of her ultimate, targeting Estrid and sending it to the command zone
Assuming that you don't have the land to get her loyalty counters into the negatives
You could randomly do that. Sure if you have A LOT of oblivion rings in your deck. And just hope that in your top 7 cards Estrid will hit one. Then it will work. Send her up to infinit loyalty counters and mana. Then go -7, if you hit a oblivion ring you win. If you don't, you have to pass turn I guess.
Do you have an updated list? Do you think is sgill viable for CEDH?? I love this deck and want to give it a shoot
I don't think I have one. I have placed this one on the shelf for a while so to say. There are a lot of decks that have grasped my attention. So I am sorry.
I also think it has fallen a bit behind. So I don't know if I would recommend it ATM. I think you can find something better.
@@cedhtv something better like a derevi? Or ashaya? I'm playing pako RN with My playgroup
Just seems like Teferi with extra steps. But maybe the 2 extra colors makes it worth it.
two extra colors dose a lot for a deck. But sure Teferi dose it smother. But enlighten tutor is good.
Can someone please help me, what happens if I play chain veil on my turn to set up for combo next turn, and then it gets destroyed on my opponents turn? how can I get it back from the graveyard? Or do I need to save 12 mana in one turn??? 4 mana to play it, then 4 for Estrid, then another 4 to tap the chain veil????
Putting both in play togheter is ussally the best way. Don't forget that when you cast Estrid you could +her and untapp a lot of lands and other things. So it woulden't be 12 mana. Or it will be but Estrid helps you out.
chain viel, garruk, mana reflection, estrid. does the same thing.
this might be some rules thing i dont know about with planeswalker abilities but why do you need to have estird die?
You can only activate one planeswalker ability per turn. Estrid needs to die because after you use your ult, you haven't untapped the chain veil with her +2, which means you can't continue the untapping loop. When she is recast after dying you can use her +2 again after her ult.
You don't need to use the ult at all. You can rack up all the mana first. Then and only then once you have as much mana as you will ever need do you hit the ult.
daemonCaptrix not if you want to ult infinite times, but you can get infinite mana without it
So this is Estrid + Chain Veil + 2-3 enchanted Land Cards? So at least a 4 card combo? Is it worth it? Did y have the chance to test?
Yes I have played tested it (did so with proxy first). Its not hard to get 2-3 lands enchanted. With normal cards, not masks. I don't think that part will be a problem. Sure strip mine is a great counter.
I made a quicke count. I have 13 cards inside this deck that can fixe that 2-3 lands. There is also a threads of disloyalty that can steal an birds of paradise. Usually I steal Tymna whit it but I would like to mention it.
You can't steal Tymna - Threads only take converted Mana Cost 2 or less.
A! meant Thrasious.
Don t get me wrong i like that brew. Just not 100% sold on that. Maybe i have to see it in action.
So many win cons!
Best case scenario, how fast could this go off?
Good question. I never aimed for it to be a super fast deck. And I don't know Estrids power level currently. Turn 3. Had to think but turn three is fastest.
Turn one: Wild growth Or utopia sprawl onto basic land.
Turn two: Earth craft
Turn three: Knacksaw click and WIN!
@@cedhtv No, it has summoning sickness. "If a creature with an Untap ability hasn’t been under your control since your most recent turn began, you can’t activate that ability, unless the creature has haste." From Gatherer rulings.
Ah, nm, looked it up - reminder text.
I understand how the simple infinite Mana combo works (chain veil; spam +2) but I'm not sure I understand the combo you explain at the beginning.
The steps make sense to me but I don't see how this is actually "infinite" since every time you cast estrid she cost 2 more than last time, but the combo generates the same amount every time (let's say 20 each time) so how do you cast her infinitely to extort for a win?
Each time she is recast she can use the chain veil for the amount of times it has been activated. If you increase that amount each time you recast her. Let's say you activate the chain veil a bunch of times. That will give you more mana in the pool. In other words you will always be able to produce more mana with her each new time you cast her. Lets say you cast her for the 20th time. You might have activated the chain vail 50 times this turn so fare. Lets activate her first ability +2, 40 times. Then activate the chain vail 20 more times. After that Ulti astrid -7, lets say 20 times. I haven't calculated this but I thing you understand the concept. Now she dies and you have lets say 100 mana in your pool. Cast her and now she can activate 70 times this time. its just going to grow, grow, grow!
her -1 ability can also be used to fix errors if you accidentally screw up her loyaty.
I hope you understand, because I don't. Hahahaha. It not that hard when you sit down with a dice and just do it infront of you. You will always be able to grow the mana. Increase the number of activations on your chain veil.
@@cedhtv thanks for the quick response! I'm currently building the deck and will try it myself soon. I realize now with so many activations of chain veil I can definitely correct for the increase in Mana like you explained. I somehow missed that.
Thanks again, this is a great channel.
Hello my friend from land of IKEA. Would u recommend something for first commander? I have about 200 euro to spend on MCM. Preferebly something combo/stax. I was thinkin about ruric that stax but apparently its bad- thats what i read in internet ^^
I don't think Ruric thar is bad anymore. I have lost to him several times. But I think you can build better things. Blood pod isen't that expensive. And you don't need to build the kiki jiki birthing pod combo either. You can build the blood pod stax shell and later upgrade from there.
Have you considered a Stax build with Winter Orb and Static Orb since she can untap your permanents?
Yes. Those might get added in a coming future. I think that is the right way to go. But currently I am testing her without them.
How does chain veil work
Bringing it on Thursday? 😊
Going to bring something different. I am practicing a deck I wanna compete with in the global cockatrice tournament.
If you're drawing your entire deck, could Laboratory Maniac also be a good win con?
Laboratory maniac dosen't do anything besides WIN. While blind obedience will do at least something. I was first thinking of LABMAN but I rather have a card that dose something. But if you really like LABMAN, sure.
cEDH TV Actually I didn't think of that, you bring up very good points
Could you possibly add Helix Pinnacle as a wincon?
That would just take up a card slot I am afraid. That was my first card to think of. But after some time I found a card that would do something and not only work when I WIN. Blind obedience do se play in other decks that don't aim to win with it. The stax effect is good.
Would u be able to get a similar result say enchanting the forge of heroes
No. You don't need to activate forge of heroes multiple times. You only need it once if you wanna cast Estrid and chain veil the same turn. If you already have Estrid on the battlefield and she is on loyalty 2 your fine. Just cast chain veil and activate Estrid -1 to mask chain veil. After that astrid is on loyalty 1 and you win. Just climb 1-3-5-7 and ulti.
Why do you want here to go back into the command zone. Won't it work with out it
You only get infinit mana from using her +2 over and over. If she dies you can receptively use her ultimate -7 for ever and put your entire deck into your grave and all enchantments into play.
How are you not running Wellspring?!?! You can steal an opponent’s land so they have less interaction during your turn and it ramps you.
hummm. its not terrible. Or well it is bad in any other deck then this. I guess that is why I didn't know about it. I think I will add it to my list.
6 card combo? Yeah, that's really competitive.
6 cards? you only need Chain veil. If you mean that you need auras for your lands then its the same as saying that Isochron scepter and dramatic reversal is a 6 card combo. Because you need mana rocks or mana dorks for it to work to.
It's not 6 specific cards.
It's your commander, one specific card, about a million ways to fetch it, and a couple of the redundant bread-and-butter ramp cards in your deck.
It's also not the only combo win-con. You've got another couple of two-card combos that also get searched for if you want.
I don't understand how the mana in pool increase :(
The mana pool increases from more plainswalkers activations. We get more plainswalker activation.
the lands are enchanted, so they untap every time we tick up estrid.
you can float mana besides the mana you're spending on chain-veil for later use.
But if you ultimate without killing her, how can you untap chain veil ?
You can't. That is the problem. That is way you need to do these tricks to make sure she dies from ulti. But if you have a WINCON from infinit mana on your hand then just go for that and never ultimate her.
Chain veil says "activate once this turn" how are you able to activate her multiple times the same turn??
Like I said in the video. Chain veil is not linked to a plainswalker but to A player ME. So If I have activated chain veil 3 times so fare. There is lets call it floating 3 activations in the air. If a new planswalker comes into play that walker will see all the chain veil activations. Its a bit hard to explain I hope you understand.
I understand its linked to a player. I guess that's why I was confused about the "once per turn" part. Just seems like it shouldn't be able to do it. I just want to be able to state it correctly when questioned about it during play.
I know. It took me some time to. You need to sit and think about it for some time.
You are just reading the ability incorrectly. It doesn't say you can only activate it once per turn. It's adding one more activation per for this turn, meaning it won't stack turn to turn, but let's you stack multiple activations for the turn you're in. By saying it's linked to the player and not the planeswalker, he can cast a new estrid (or any other pw) and it will have all of the activations available for the rest of this turn.
I didnt think you could use blind obedience because of the black in the hybrid symbol
Nate Dogg reminder text soo you can.
That is a common misconception, as the hybrid symbol is a part of the reminder text (the text within brackets) it doesn't affect the card in any way, it's just there for your convenience. Only mana symbols in the Rules text will effect the colouridentity of a card.
Interesting deck idea, but why not just play Teferi Chain Veil?
Bant colors. Mostly. And Stasis. Sure you can Stasis with Teferi aswell. But Estrid dose it better.
With all the Estrid ultimates, wouldn't you deck yourself at some point?
You don't draw cards from Estrids ability you just empthy your deck.
@@cedhtv Yeah, but then if you pitch combo pieces. How would they return?
@@Mage2trick But they all come into play. Didn't I explain it in the video?
This seems quite cool haha
Do you think this deck I going to be able to keep up with decks like breakfast hulk?
Well. There is a back to basic inside my list. And some counterspells. Sure breakfast hulk is faster but nothing beats force of will in speed.
Isnt it infinite if you just +2 with chain veil enchanted
It will be infinite mana but not infinite Estrid -7 ultimate ability. To get that she needs to die.
Surely you can't play blind obedience because extort on the card has hybrid orzhov mana and estrid doesn't have black making it an illegal card
Extort has a reminder text on it. This artical explains it really well:)
blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2013/02/extort-and-commander/
Way too specific in how you need to set it up (3 enchant lands, forge of heroes, AND chain veil??) to be competitive. Definitely a fun combo but requires too much set up
I think I have 13-14 variants of enchantments in that deck that can help fix that part. After that I don't really need forge of heroes. It will help but its not a must. So, all you really need is chain veil. But sure Teferi has a better set up.
Wouldn't Blind Obedience be considered illegal for her deck since it has hybrid black/white mana?
extort is a remainder text. here is a link to official rulers on remainder text such as extort. mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15321
Isn’t blind obedience a black card as well?
No.
mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15321
12:16 QUITE OLD SCHOOL!
Or you could put her to 14, ultimate twice, and recast
Connor Harrison but you can not, as you don’t have 2 chain veil activations
Couldn't one opponent make you draw a card when you have 0 in your library and thereby win the game? I know the chances are slim and shit...
they could. but that is rare. Also if you are scared of that include the card. memories journey.
Can you play Blind Obedience in a Bant deck? I thought the B/W extort cost (Black mana symbol) meant you couldn't?
Unless they changed their minds here you go. Remainder text don't affect color identity.
mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15321
I also have an example. In 2014 they printed five mono colored plainswalker decks. In the mono black one they reprinted crypt ghast.
so this is a 5 card combo? seems bad.
How is it a 5 card combo? In that sens, dramatic reversal and scepter is also a 5 card combo. But is not because you have soo much rock in your deck that you have that part consistently. the same as Estrid will have her condition met consistently.
Your commander, a few of your primary ramp spells, and chain veil. By the time you fine chain veil you will be setup on the rest already.
To be fair this takes too much setup and cards needed to do this and easily interrupted, never was a fan of chain veil estrid for cedh. Teferi will always be the better option if you must play chain veil
Not sure if you can run blind obedience, it has black in the identity
Brian Misenar extort’s b symbol is in the reminder text so it doesn’t actually count
That is a common misconception, as the hybrid symbol is a part of the reminder text (the text within brackets) it doesn't affect the card in any way, it's just there for your convenience. Only mana symbols in the Rules text will effect the colouridentity of a card.
Isn't blind obedience color identity a problem?
Blind obedience is a white card. The split mana symbol is only in the reminder cost. This is a common misunderstanding.
Yeah extorts black mana symbol is within parenthesis meaning it’s only on the reminder text not actually printed on the card so it gets around that.
This is NOT cEDH.... it’s way too slow.
For competitive you need turn 3 kill at the latest normally.
Oh that is no problem.
Turn 1: Utopia sprawl and say blue.
Turn 2: Earth craft
Turn 3: Knacksaw click and WIN!
But I would like to mention that not all cEDH deck win turn 3, or aim at winning turn 3. Blood pod is a good example. Yisan is a good example. I don't think a a turn 3 criteria is a good way of checking if a deck is competitive.
cEDH TV Have you actually played competitive?
To think that many spells are going to resolve without some interaction from opponents is you living in a dream world.
I mean keep up the videos, but this is casual competitive... not cEDH.
Yes I have :)
I won the local cEDH tournament vi have in my local game store. I play a lot on playEDH over webcam and etcetera.
NOW.
Where in my text did I say anything about people not interacting with this? Ofc people are going to interact with it. Just like they interact with flash hulk. And this deck will interact with flash hulk. Just like flash hulk might interact with this. But somewhere down the line some stuff will resolve.
BUT once more.
Where in my text did I write that I think all my spells will automatically resolve?
cEDH TV
T1 Utopia
T2 Earthcraft
T3 knacksaw click and win....
sure seems like you said you just win with no interaction.
That is what you asked me for. If you ask me on how fast breakfast hulk can win my answer would be this.
T1: island - lotus petal - flash - hulk = WIN.
Its a fast and simple answer to your your statement "for competitive you need a turn 3 kill at the latest".
My first answer gave you that. I don't see where I need to implement an explanation about interactions and that people will try and prevent if from happening with EX: force of will. I don't see I deliver some form of ignorance towards that "thats not how it is".
It is only a simple answer.
Aura is pronounced OR a not OW ra
You must feel really smart. :)
This list seems bad, the tutors are slow, the wincon is slow, and it doesn’t seem to run enough stax or interaction to compensate for these short comings. Don’t get me wrong she seems like a fun card, but doesn’t seem to deserve the CEDH hype she’s been getting.
Currently I don't know her power level. Sure the tutors isen't demonic tutor or vamp tutor. But I have overlapping WINCONS. Meaning I don't have to relay on tutors. For example earth craft can be used with knacksaw click and staff of domination. But also with the MAIN WINCON of Estrid.
I would also like to add in that this list hasen't existed for more then a few weeks after she was spoiled. I agree there is a hype. But hype makes people play decks and fine tune it. I think my list will change over time as we go on.
Couldn't find someone who speaks English to do this? Why not just ask someone?
?
Another degenerate combo in commander lmao
Isen't it great! The best part is when you beat the X!?#" out of it
I’d rather stick with my classic Chain Veil Teferi.
Your entire Wincon is built on a card that is unplayable in the deck because blind obedience's color identity is b/w since the extort cost is either 1w or 1b. find another wincon pal
mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15321