Legends Summarized: King Arthur
VloĆŸit
- Äas pĆidĂĄn 1. 02. 2018
- Camelooooooot~đ”
For a mythos so universally well-known, there's not actually much in the way of a canon for King Arthur. Some people will smugly inform you that the Sword in the Stone isn't Excalibur; some will equally smugly tell you that the stone was actually an anvil. Is Merlin a druid, a wizard, a demon, a time-traveler? Is Morgan Le Fay Arthur's sister, nemesis, lover, all of the above? And where the hell does Mordred fit into all this? To answer these questions, let's go all the way back to the beginning and trace how this mythos grew and evolved as it moved from writer to writer and culture to culture. And this is a long one, so strap in, folks!
Would you believe there's no guitar tab for "C'est Moi" anywhere online? So inconsiderate.
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Lancelot: Who are you?
Galahad: I'm you, but I have standards.
Less horny Lancelot
Basically
Man, is this true
Lol
He really does *lances a-lot ;)*
Chretien:
-created a mega popular OC
-turned the basic canon into ship wars involving his OCs
-planned out a way longer arc that he never bothered to finish
This guy really did set the bar for fanfic as we know it
Holy crap you're right.
Proving that humanity never really changes
the original 'My Immortal'? discuss.
@@ellerynelson8918 No, because My Immortal was written as parody, and also clearly labeled as fanfic. Side note: I have never read My Immortal, and spend a significant chunk of time looking through the mountains of crossover fanfiction for those sweet few longer than ten chapters and with decent grammar and plot.
@@cardboardcrafter2482 definitely not a parody
Guinevere: -sleeping with lancelot when already married-
Also Guinevere: Omg Morgan you can't be sleeping around with people when married
Hypocretia in its maximum brightness
Yeah in all of those legends Guinevere is never the bad person. Well, she is a beautiful woman, so that means she is innocent.
@@Doubleranged1, quite sexist honestly.
@@nkyfong Personally I like it because of how much it goes against the current thing. Also it is actually realistic that nobles be pretty unhappy with their marriages since many were for politics. Thing is in a lot of history it was biased where husband could do it but not wife.
@@phantom-ri2tg Which is how Llacheu may or may not have happened (depends on the tradition).
I just realized that King Arthur is technically the first cinematic Universe, complete with fandom, phases, solo stories, and big crossovers
Greek myth
@@Joeys4921Iâll do you one better : Egyptian myth
Those are religions it's not the same as Arthurian legend
The Greek and Egyptian myths were important parts of their societies but someone like Leonidas of Sparta would probably be more comparable
Well, maybe not the first, but one of the most glorified story ever
"What if Merlin was a skinny British kid?" I'm pretty sure that if Merlin existed he was, at some point, a skinny British kid
Kid Merlin.
Yung merlin
BBC Merlin
Uell aktshwaly he was a skinny Brythonic kid
@@jackofclubs6229 BBC Merlin is best Merlin
The most important takeaway from Arthurian Legend is that strange women lying in ponds distributing weaponry is no basis for a system of government.
Wait really?!
Puts away mystical weapon found in old fountain*
Are you sure? Aww man I was planning on living in a swamp and handing guns to kids :((
Indeed, supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Ah Monty python
I smell a techno reference đ
âWhat if Arthur was a woman?â
The premise that became the foundation of a multi-billion dollar franchise
i really wanna say that theres not a single chance that's where nasu started but hes fucking kinoko nasu and the themes on heroism in fate do seem to flow from arturia... yeah.
I've only seen Apocrypha but I honor this
Technically, Nasu initially wanted Arthur to be a man at first. but changed his mind later on
â@VardiganXPL thus which gave us the prototype timeline
And then they shoved Galahad into to body of a teenage girl.
One of my favorite takes on Lancelot was that he was brutal, cruel, sadistic, and covetous and trying VERY HARD not to be those things. Arthur did good by following his natural impulses, Lancelot did good by rejecting his natural impulses.
So....Paarthanax?
So... Once and Future King?
@@takodaaseves4038 england is a skyrim reference, confirmed
@@veryoriginalname2515fun fact: Skyrim makes several references to Arthurian stories, even having an arm lifting an enchanted sword out of a lake referencing Nimue. However, most of the game is based on Scandinavian stuff, largely Beowulf, with High Hrothgar being named after one of the central characters, and the concept of Dragons thematically correlating to time and death also relating back to the Beowulf story.
@@veryoriginalname2515Arthurian legends is welsh
I wonder if that Lancelot was that French guy's self-insert OC because Guinevere was his waifu...
Seems about right.
bro this made my day
My dude, this makes FAR too much sense
There is one suggestion that he wrote Lancelot the way he did because he wrote the story for (and dedicated the story to) Marie de Champagne, who supposedly asked him to write a chivalric romance story to entertain her court.
Marie was the Regent of Champagne (the region in France) when her husband was away for a period of several years, and marriages among nobility were usually for alliances rather than for love, so a story of a queen in a forbidden romance with a knight of her husband's court would very likely have been a thrilling narrative in her court.
There's no if about it.
The only âArthurian canonâ I accept is that in Monthy Python and the Holy Grail
Let us not go to Camelot. ÂŽTis a silly place.
We accept both that and the Fate series
as a french, i only accept Kaamelott as the only canon.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government
Your mother was a hamester
And your father smelt of elderberries
Now go away. before taunt you a second time
I really enjoy the idea of a villain's revenge/powergrab plot taking so long that by the time it comes to fruition they've mellowed out and completely forgotten about it, but it's too late to stop the machinations they set into play ages ago.
Really enjoy this idea
*cut to Morgan doing house hold chores while outside one of her windows england is burning* *bonus points if she wonders if she left the oven on*
i enjoy it when they don't try to stop it and want it to play out enjoying watching the hero's scramble to try and undo years of work only to realize that there's no hope
"You're the one who created the homicidal plant people! Do something!"
"...I missed my part where that's my problem."
"It. Is. Absolutely. Your problem!"
"That's 25 year old me's problem. I'm 45. 20 year difference."
I think that has real potential, too! Like, the villain who realizes the error of their ways and tries to convince their pawn to abandon the scheme, but that just makes the pawn feel like even the villain has betrayed them, and goes forth with the scheme anyway
I do find it funny that Fate's take on the tale has the healthiest Arthur-Lancelot-Guinevere relationship, with Lancelot and Guinevere deeply adoring Arthur, but also finding feelings for each other through their mutual support for their king, and Artoria understanding that her role as king made her distant from Guinevere and willingly turning a blind eye to their relationship up until they were publically ousted and Arthur had no choice.
I've made a similar, but longer (because what I can say in 1 word, I'll always say it in 10) comment. That retelling of the story is just so perfect.
I would also argue that Mordred in Fate is the best take on whole situation.
Whole fall of Arturia happened more due to everything around going to shit and everyone being flawed than one character being especially shitty.
I remember I once read a fate fanfic, where Shirou ended up in Arthurian England, and became one of the Knights in the round table. Anyways, in that fanfic, they handled the whole love triangle in the best way I'd ever seen. They made it a love square, inserting Shirou into it, and made Lancelot disaster bisexual(which actually had historical precedent, what with the homoerotic nature of his relationship with Galehaut), and gave Arthur a cuckold fetish, and made both Guinivere and Arthur really into watching guy on guy stuff, but, with their society being extremely sexually repressed they never really realized that about themselves, and Shirou, having the emotional intelligence of a spoon, wasn't much better, so the whole thing was just this big mess of sexual tension between Arthur, Guinivere, and Lancelot, with Shirou just being there for them to thirst over.
Man, that fic had no right being as well written as it was.
@@emmanuelpena2228so basically it is a doujin with surprisingly good writing
@@emmanuelpena2228
That⊠is a very weird premise. How good is it?
the fact that lancelot was originally a fanfic oc is the best thing i've heard all day
The fact that Dante made three historically relevant, self insert fan fictions is the best thing I've heard all month
And a mary sue
@@ewwpoorpeople5684 Fan-fictions on what? There was not a canon. The description he made of the afterlife is his own creation, and, as noted by many scholars, the "Dante" main character of the Commedia was very different from the real Dante poet. The character was timorous (the poet was a war veteran) and not very bright (he doesn't understand the meaning much of the things that the poet wrote). The poet simply gave his name to a character that was fit for the poem to make his tale seem more "real" for the reader than just telling the story of a random guy.
@@neutronalchemist3241 Yeah but the way he incorporated a bunch of historical figures is somewhat fan fiction-y. Imagine someone today writing a book about a self-named protagonist going on a quest wih Edgar Allen Poe as his guide.
@@FreaknFreddy Visiting a world none has described before? Not a fan-fiction. It exists an entire genere of SF qualified by having Edison as a character while having historical figures as characters is normal (almost essential) for historical romances.
I guarantee that the whole Mordred-Morgan-Morgause connection began because their names all started with "Mor"
I agree
MOOOOORRRRRRRDDDDDOOOOORRRRR
Iâm pretty sure thereâs also something related to mort meaning death in latin,
@@DeathnoteBB morT means death in latin, but "mor" in old welsh means "sea", so it's more likely derived from that.
@@tinyetoile5503 Isn't Avalon an island?
So maybe Morgana the Fey of Avalon, Morgan the Fey of Camelot, Morgause the nothing of Orkney, Mordred the unclear relative of Arthur (maybe), and all the others are just spelling variations, and this whole mess came up because a person though heard "Smith" and assumed the guy names "Sawyer" was the same person because they both start with "s"?
Gotta appreciate how she held back enough to only mention fate once
It's incredibly hard not to do
Iâm surprised she didnât mention how mordred in fate is arturiaâs daughter, but Arturia was the father
She's actually gone on record to say that she doesn't like Fate. Her knowledge of the franchise probably doesn't go any further than what she said in this video.
@@musicwalls yeah I can see why it can get pretty convoluted with all the different versions of the characters and there not really being a set order to watch them in and everyone has different orders.
â@@musicwalls nah doesn't like implies she knows enough to not like doesn't care(as is the case with me) is more like that's all you know
Yâknow, since Caliburn and Excalibur are believed to be two different swords if not the same, this begs the question; Why have we never seen King Arthur dual wielding in any other established interpretation?
I believe because Dual wielding originates from Asia, and also because itâs impractical with that type of sword, mainly itâs weight and cross guard prevent it from being a one handed weapon.
@@gameover9390B-But cool swords
Magic zuko sword!
An interesting version I heard was that Caliburn got either reforged or magically turned into Excalibur. I actually first heard that theory from Sonic and the Black Knight, of all things.
case in point he actually does dual wield in yugioh@@gameover9390
âMorgan and Mordredâ sounds like an urban fantasy law firm đ
Yes to this, please
Mordred and Morgan, Attorneys at Fae Law
Avocados at law
Morgan and Mordred; For the Celts.
Me who has an urban fantasy-ish story in the works: WRITE THAT DOWN WRITE THAT DOWN
Lancelot: ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL
Gallahad: hold my beer
*ale
@@francescapatti2934 *holy water (because he's basically the less morally bankrupt version of Lancelot)
"If they all were open and honest about their feelings... we would have a poly-armory."
This is just the icing to this already delicious cake of a video.
Closely followed by âThank you and good knightâ, of course.
Another thing about Paganism in the Aurthurian stories, at that time, the king would also marry their lands when theyâre crowned. Thereâs a theory that Guinevere is actually a goddess of the land, and thus gives Arthur legitimacy in his rule. So when Guinevere started favoring Lancelot, Arthur feared that he would lose his throne.
Is this a Mists of Avalon reference?
@@reneedailey1696 No, historical fact, though the book draws from both history and some liberties. The Guinevere in Mists of Avalon was an agoraphobic Christian princess who becomes more fanatical throughout the book. And yes, I'm sure there was someone who would symbolically play the part of the land, but we don't know for sure they were an actual priestess or someone else.
@@KHTimeProtecter I was referring specifically to the marriage to the land bit, not Guinevere.
Arthur's waifu is Britannia?
@@reneedailey1696 In Celtic/Welsh traditions, the king was closely tied to the land. Following the traditionsâ logic, if Arthur were to be perceived as someone who can no longer fulfill his role as a husband, more so in terms of sex, which then equates to infertility, the land would suffer as well. Usually in old Celtic/Welsh stories, a king that no longer can perform sexually goes through a sacrificial death, of sorts (usually involving a decapitation). If you are interested, Iâd recommend short stories such as Pwyll, The Prince of Dyfed and Branwen, Daughter of Llyr (and all of the other branches of Mabinogi). They all follow the same structure in terms of Celtic/Welsh myth and folklore, which in turn gives us a deeper understanding of where certain themes from the Arthurian stories comes from. Sorry for the lengthy answer đ
So a *French* OC ruined a marriage? Imagine my shock.
Ehrenmann
I think we all can agree, France would've been better off if it stood with the Holy Roman Empire after Charlemagne died
@@artoriasbenoit Blame the Franks' retarded idea that sons should divide the realm of their father's equally between them instead of the eldest inheriting all
@@CatroiOz Thank you... I would look at the shifting national barriers at that time and wondered how it all got chopped up so fast (other than, you know... Franks and Goths stuff) that makes so much more sense now. I'm big on history, but I'm still making my way through post fall of western Rome to Holy Roman Empire period. Appreciate that bit of knowledge man.
@@artoriasbenoit I'm sure they thought they could throw enough axes to make all their problems go away. It worked with Rome... kind of. Lol
Red: *talks extensively about Arthurian lore and mythology throughout the eras*
Me, whoâs memorized all of Monty Python and the Holy Grail: Yâknow Iâm something of an Arthurian expert myself.
*NI*
Fetchez la vache!
THE GREAT BEAST OF AAAAAARGH
Me who played Ace combat Zero:
You Know I'm something of an Arthurian expert myself
Me whoâs watched the entirety of Merlin: You know Iâm something of an Arthurian expert myself.
My favourite modern versions is that both Arthur and Lancelot are good and the whole thing is a tragic tale, it was from my favourite book from back when I was a kid and what got me obsessed with Arthurian mythos. This is a long one but I am summarizing a pretty big book here.
In this version, Arthur gets smitten by the beauty of Guinevere and wants to marry her. Merlin with his foresight warns him that if he marries her it will one day be his undoing, he still ignores Merlin being a horny young adult and asks Guinevere's hand in marriage. To Arthur's credit he doesn't demand it, even though he could being a king, it is just that Guinevere marries Arthur at her fathers orders (you know marrying his daughter to the king will offer his noble line plenty of influence downstream). Arthur meanwhile is totally chill, kind and noble with her, understanding the situation he forced her in and doesn't force himself to her. And honestly does feel kinda guilty at how his request has forced this woman into a marriage she didn't want. (This was when Arthur first became King and didn't understood how people don't tend to say no to a King's request yet)
Guinevere grows to love Arthur, but in a more platonic way instead of romantic. She adores his company and their time together but the spark never ignites(yep Arthur gets friend-zoned). Then Lancelot comes along. Arthur learns about this young knight who was raised by the same nymph who gave him his magic sword and he immediately takes him to his round table. Arthur and Lancelot become best friends almost instantly, feeling a brotherly bond for one another. Then Lancelot and Guinevere meet on Lancelot's knighting ceremony. They instantly fall in love.
At first they try to avoid eachother since they both really love and respect Arthur. But being the King's favourite knight and Queen they are bound to meet again and again. Eventually they confess their forbidden love to one and other, and they are in a peculiar situation. In one hand they don't want to betray whom they consider to be their best friend, but on the other they are so in love that they can't help themselves. What seems interesting is that Arthur takes notice but doesn't do anything. Remember he feels guilty about forcing Guinevere to marry him, in a way. If anything he feels kinda happy for both of them, but he never confronts them about it out of fear that doing that will escalate the situation into something terrible.
The years go by and Grail, Fisher King, Morgana etc. Adventures come and go. Until one day Mordred accidentally finds out about it while Arthur is away on a hunting trip. Mordred seeing his beloved Uncle's wife getting charmed by his so called "best friend" gets enraged, but he knows that Lancelot is better than him and if he charges in now he will die and Lancelot will continue "abusing" Arthur's trust. Mordred goes to immediately alert his brothers. Gawain is pretty close friend of Lancelot and he insists on doing nothing until the king returns, Gareth and Gaheris owe their lives to Lancelot and they are also against making a move. But Agravein is. Agravein is salty because Lancelot is better than him and while Mordred only wants to protect Arthur, Agravein wants to kill Lancelot and really doesn't give a crap about the adultery. Agravein fears that if Arthur returns he may even pardon Lancelot due to how close of friends they are, so he organizes a bunch of knights and they along side with Mordred storm the quarters of Guinevere while she is with Lancelot. Lancelot with just his sword manages to not only kill Agravein but to also escape.
The death of Agravein is kinda of a big deal. For one it makes Mordred furious at Lancelot since he was the sibling he was closest to and it makes the scene from adultary to adultary + murder, murder of the King's nephew no less. Arthur returns to hear what happened. He is pressured by his court to burn Guinevere at the stake for the crimes. He doesn't want to, so he has a plan. He knows that Lancelot will come to rescue her so he has a lackluster guard on the execution day. That way Lancelot can just run with Guinevere to his uncle in Gaul and there those two can live happily ever after. This shows how much trust he has on Lancelot, since he will be present too in the execution day, if Lancelot was truly a traitor he could kill Arthur easily as well as save Guinevere.
The execution day comes. And Arthur has Gareth and Gaheris escort Guinevere to be burned. They refuse to wear their armor because they don't want to escort a defenseless lady to her death as knights. As expected Lancelot shows up he cuts through everyone from him to his love, including Gareth and Gaheris who were actually cheering for him. Since they didn't wear any armor they die instantly.
Now this is the even that ruins everything. Once Gawain hears about this, he gets furious. Agravein was a dick so Gawain didn't give a shit about him. But he loved Gareth and Gaheris. He gathers literally every other knight and demand Arthur seek revenge. Arthur pressured by his fellow knights does, which enrages Mordred. Mordred lost 3 brothers whom he loved deeply, 3 brothers that were Arthur's nephews and yet from the Mordred POV all that Arthur seems to care is about loosing Lancelot. That changes him. And he now feels the same rage against Lancelot, against Arthur.
Guinevere is so horrified by the death Lancelot has caused on her name and refuses to leave with him. She has feels so much regret that she just leaves Lancelot and returns to Arthur so he can kill her, she feels so much guilt that she actually wanted to be burned at the stake so that she may atone, but Arthur doesn't want to, so for know he decided to limit her on London Tower until he finishes his campaing against Lancelot in Gaul.
While Gawain and Arthur are in Gaul fighting Lancelot. Mordred usurps Camelot. Once Arthur learns about this he returns, fighting happens in which Gawain is mortally wounded by Mordred. On his deathbed he writes to Lancelot, forgiving him for accidentally killing his brothers and asks to once again return to help their king against the usurper.
Lancelot upon receiving the letter, immediately rushes back to Britain. Only to find everything in ruin, he was too late. Only he and Guinivere remain. Who despite having no one left to challenge their forbidden love, part ways. As two broken people forever hunted by guilt till the end of their days.
And that was how a children's book about knights ended! Damn I love that book. You gotta love it when Greeks reimagine classic stories, we add so much tragedy!
Pretty much just a summary of the final act of La Morte d'Arthur.
What is the name of the book? It seems very interesting.
thats actually so interesting that by the end they both decide its enough and walk away from eachother, whats the name of this specific version??
Could you tell us the name?
What is the name of this book?
Arthur running off yelling âFight me Caesar!â Made me laugh more than I expected
Me: WaitâŠso Uther, was shapeshifted into a womans husband so he could bang her? Why does that sound familiar?âŠâŠWAIT A MINUTE!
*rips off Uthers face, revealing Zeus*
Me: *gasp* I KNEW IT! He was Zeus all along!
Eatinganemone89 Dear God, that explains so much! Now I got this unsafe in my head of Camelot being a British Camp Half Blood. Which would actually be a cool story to read now that I think about it.
Zeus: "Damn"
"And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids."
you know Monmouth probably lifted the idea straight from Greek Myth, it was very in vogue at the time!
69th like noice
Don't worry young fanfiction writers, someday your cringy OP Too Pure For This Sinful World OC may become a classical character in like several hundred centuries
I really now want to be frozen and wake up in five hundred years to see archive of our own becoming the greatest source of literature in history
Or like Mary Sue, become the namesake of all fanfic characters and poorly realized/overpowered/often female protagonist characters.
I can't wait until 2453 where some 12-year-olds 12-winged Rainbow Christ Undertale OC is considered classical literature
Quick everybody, sneak some copies of My Immortal into the Vatican's libraries!
Can ebony darkness dementia raven way become a major character in the potterian mythos?
I always liked that scene, in "The Once And Future King," when it was clear that Mordred was angling to discredit and dethrone Arthur, and Lancelot came to him with a dire warning of his plan...and Arthur responded basically by saying, "Dude. You are my best friend. You are the greatest champion this country had ever seen. You have been sleeping with my wife for the past 25 years... ... Don't kill my son."
Love knowing that a major founding work in Arthurian legend was an abandoned fanfic. The world truly never changes
Yâall ever made an OC so perfect he survives actual centuries to the point that heâs basically integral to actual canon
And ends up having an even more perfect OC son that IS LITERALLY DRAGGED UP TO HEAVEN BECAUSE HEâS SO PERFECT AND THAT SHIT _STILL BECOMES CANON_
Imagine the entirety of AO3 being debated by an entire parliament of stuffy old people with robotic limbs and shit because nobody can agree upon whether or not Ebony Darkâness Dementia is part of the Harry Potter canon.
BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
@caro d. I hate that you're right.
Can you imagine? Iâd love to live long enough to see that.
I was about to reply 'Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way' before I read more, you my friend are incredible
How about David Monroe? Or Milo Amastacia-Liadon? Or Dumblecop, of the Darkmeal?
I'm surprised you did not cover the more recent versions and how they covered such important new elements to the story like a lack of horses, coconuts brought in by swallow and the now extinct killer bunny...
Idk I distinctly remember the horses in that version
I find it staggering how you managed to cover king Arthur without talking about his inclusion in Y Mabinogion which is a collection of welsh tales written down in the 14th century (red book of Hergest etc) which are retellings and writing down of the much earlier welsh oral tradition and where these myths came from (post roman Britain culture) i grew up with the welsh tellings of many of these tales.
Quick handy guide for translation for you for the above welsh names btw -
Myrddin Wyllt - wild merlin (or merlin the wild)
Caledfwlch - caled = hard and bwlch = gap but bwlch may have had another meaning in old welsh.
I'm a first language Welsh speaker and wholeheartedly reccomend translations of the mabinogi to anyone who's interested also.
Also Cadwaladr is quite a famous old welsh king here.
ETA i saw in a later video apologising about not knowing about welsh mythology and an explanation which is grand.
Also if you want a hand with welsh pronunciation I'm willing to send recordings of me saying stuff for you both.
Hey if you're on Twitter, you could try reaching OSP there to offer your Welsh pronunciation skills! I doubt red's gonna be reading comments on a year old video, but Twitter might actually work
@@sockpuppetqueen cheers for the suggestion, I only use twitter for work stuff though.
In uni, I took a 2 week course in Arthurian Legends, and I was thinking "wait, wasn't the Grail actually introduced in the older Welsh tales, but a bit different?". Might be wrong thought, it was quite a long time ago.
I was about to say this! The way that the Grail is framed in the Mabinogion is really interesting and weird and I was surprised to see that it wasn't touched upon, so I'm glad they came back to it later.
For someone who doesn't want to learn Welsh but would like to be a bit better at estimating how y'all pronounce things, what's up with words that don't contain any vowels? Are there any easy ways to figure out their pronunciation?
Swedish is my mother tongue so I usually default to that when I'm unsure about Welsh/Irish/Gaelic but when there aren't any vowels I don't even know where to start.
It's criminal how adorable Morgan Le Fay is when drawn in this style.
yes
Morgana is best girl.
Morgan Le Bae(?)
@@gregg4174 Absolutely.
Also known as the Morrigan depending on your veiw.
We then: "Exaltation of the Beloved Lady"
We now: "Simp"
To be fair, it's a toxic mindset.
who would think that modern perspective would turn Lancelot, the original Gary Stu, into the lowest of the low
Well, to be brutally honest the idea of Courtly Love includes two very important points. One, that the person you love also loves you in return (which is why it's not SUPPOSED To be a simp, it's supposed to be MUTUAL Pining) and two (which Lancelot fucks up with) is that you're never ACTUALLY supposed to obtain the one you love.
Which is the problem with the Lancelot stories, because oh yeah he does fuck Gwenevere. Every chance they get. It ceases to be courtly love and becomes 'We shouldn't, but we lack the moral character to stop'.
AdamaGeist Actually, like half of courtly love stories are unrequited-the beloved lady doesnât want anything to do with the creep who keeps sending her sappy loveletters and breaking into the mansion of the husband-who even if she doesnât like at least isnât being a stalker and has the means to support her-and so she sends him on impossible quests hoping heâll just die and get out of her hair forever. Which ofc to the French Romantics turned the âlove is desire never to be fulfilledâ aspect up to 11, so they could think of the creep as even *more* of a tragic figure as heâs such a ânice guyâ but she just âcanât see it.â đ€ą
Thankfully Lance isnât THAT kind of courtly love story.
Not "we." Just a bunch of internet misogynists.
1:55 We don't know if Arthur existed
2:30 Phase 1: Annales Cambriae
3:05 Phase 2: Geoffrey of Monmouth
â3:17 1100's Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia regem Britanniae
â3:17 Cadwallader
â3:50 Merlin helps Uther bang Igerna by shape-shifting him to look like Gorlois
â3:59 Arthur was conceived
â4:27 Mordred marries Guinevere and usurps the throne
â4:44 Caleddfwlch -> Caliburn -> excalibur
5:14 Phase 3: Chretien de Troyes
â5:32 Lancelot du Lac
â5:47 Grail
Coutly Love
â6:28 Love for love's sake the idea that you pursue love simply because you are in love
â6:37 exaltation of the beloved lady exactly what is says on the tin
â6:45 the ennobling power of love, the idea that love makes you a better, more noble person
â6:49 unfulfilled desire: the idea that courtly love doesn't have a win condition, you just keep it going for its own sake
â7:05 First Crusade
â8:16 Guinvere is married to Arthur, but she's in love with Lancelot
â8:41 The Wounded King
â8:53 Percival
â9:04 Afterwards, one of the courtiers angrily tells him that if he'd just asked who the Grail was for and why the lance was bleeding, the Fisher King's injury would be healed and they'd have all been saved.
9:23 Phase 4: The Vulgate Cycle
â9:40 Thomas Malory
â10:06 Myrddin Wyllt
â10:11 Aurelius Ambrosius (Emrys Wledig)
â10:19 Merlin son of a virgin and an incubus.
â10:26 baptized baby Merlin and saved him from potential Antichristness
â10:53 pulling excalibur
â11:04 falls in love with Niviane
11:23 The Holy Grail
â11:23 Galahad - illegitimate son of Lancelot and Elaine
â13:21 Morgan Le Fay
â14:11 Gawain and the Green Knight
â15:20 Mordred fails too marry Guinvere because she hides from him in the Tower of London
â15:41 moral of the Vulgate is adultery is bad
â16:30 The stories were getting more Pagan elements at the same time more Christian elements
17:09 Phase 5: The Lull
17:38 Phase 6: Nostalgia
People like you are amazing and thank you
Absolutely amazing note taking, thank you.
6:28 This part is incredibly useful for explaining what courtly love entails, and I have no idea why nobody else on CZcams has explained it like this.
Are you tryna tell me that the whole Arthur mythos is a colab between fan-fic writters??
*There's still hope for me!!!*
No, there was no collaboration, it was a bunch of fan-fic writers adding shit independently of each other
Everybody know king Arthur but what if King Arthur was a lady
That had a dick at one point, and got laid by his sister
And got a "son" that is a woman
And weilds a spear that made her thicc
Etc
@mika tepes I tip my hat from one legend to another
@@anadaere6861 ...you mean exactly like how Arthur and Mordred are in the Fate series?
I think it's more of the next person finds it and adds to it
You know who I feel worst for in all of this? Arthur's younger sister Anna, who is mentioned once and never again.
Someone should write a book from her perspective.
I'd like to think about that.
Wait he has a sister?!
Is this like the Peggy thing from Hamilton?
@@kaboomgaming4255 Basically.
@@kaboomgaming4255 4:03
Was kinda wondering when you would mention Fate.
Also, for those wondering, despite Arthur(or Artoria in this) being a girl, Fate provides a really good and cohesive version of Arthurian mythos. Artoria being a female is addressed, and worked seamlessly into the myths, and is more than just waifu bait.
The version presented by Fate fleshes out details of the myth, such as how Arthur would act and think if raised and trained from such a young age to be the ideal, fair, perfect king, or how Lancelot's downfall occurred, writing his affair as wrong, but not writing him as truly evil. They also show a rather interesting depiction of Mordred. I suggest either watching Fate/Zero(that's what the clip was from) or just reading the wiki entries for their characters, which actually go into a lot of detail, more even than the anime.(due probably to the visual novels and FGO).
Fate draws from tons of historical settings, and a lot of mythos, and is really skilled at adding new twists to classic characters, without compromising the identity.
As a Fate fan myself, I do agree with everything, even the part on MordredâŠ.until you remember why we call Merlin the Cock Wizard.
@@shawnfrostick8417 I feel like that just makes Mordred's depiction more interesting
Well said, sir. Even after Apocrypha's design, I considered the Camlann flashback in DEEN's Fate/Stay Night to be the best interpretation , that image of Mordred's helm shattering to reveal an almost duplicate of Artoria is beautifully haunting image that expresses a form of trauma Artoria may have gotten from the battle.
Mordreds likeness in that seen also better served to put salt on the injury that at the end of the day, it was noneother than the king that became the downfall of their own realm.
I'm not entirely sure I can agree with the "not just waifu bait" all things about fate considered. Like I actually really enjoy fate and find it fascinating but a lot of it is a more or less compelling story built on the foundation of waifu bait.
@@spookychicken9978
2 things
1: if we are talking Fate/Stay Night, considering the original story was an adult visual novel, it's come far.
2: if we are talking FGO, then what did you expect from anime gacha mobile game?
You know, the whole Lancelot and Galahad comparison feels like someone wrote a really popular fanfic with an OC that everybody likes, causing him to get incorporated into other people's stories, but that one writer later on thinks is not all that good and really rather bad and toxic and so writes their own fanfic with their own OC that creates consequences for the first one and shows what they think is arguably a much better and more wholesome character in response.
The Arthurian mythos: several separate layers of recursive fanfiction, each adding its own super-awesome Gary Stu, each more Gary Stu than the previous.
(edit: for 2 years, this comment sat at the top of the pile, and only now I noticed that I've written Arhurian instead of Arthurian).
Coming up next: Sir Jonathan, a nobleman born much later than the rest, who at a young age gained a very abusive step-brother who killed his dog and stole his love's first kiss. Seven years later, he discovers that an ancient mask his family owns reacts to blood. However, so did his step-brother, and he discovers that it can create vampires. Jonathan's step-brother becomes a vampire and creates armies of the undead to rule the world, and Sir Jonathan must stop him.
Oh by the way, Jonathan's step-brother is named Dio Brando.
@@zekeram129 question: is Erina, his first love a mary sue?
oh boy I dunno. But I'd say that the side characters, such as Mr. Speedwagon, were so well written.
@@zekeram129 Mr. Speedawagon is kind of like Gawain, except he's the ideal Male body, and he was the one who lifted up Gawain.
But that's just what I think.
@@zekeram129 speedweed
Merlin: *Agrees to teach Nivian magic in an attempt to woo her over*
Nivian: Iâm gonna do whatâs called a Pro Gamer move.
Put him in a rock
Merlin: *Has power of prophecy*
Nivian: *Uses secrets to seal him away*
Merlin: I did not see that coming.
OR, maybe a pro gaymer move...
girls gays and theys, write that down
âWHOS BEEN MESSING UP EVERYTHING? ITS BEEN NIVIAN ALL ALONG!â
The Christianified Merlin is literally just a shonen protagonist. That's really cool.
I absolutely love Merlin. Not only because heâs literally just an Istari in Middle-Earth terms, but also bc heâs chaotically relatable. This can be evidenced in his christianized portrayal of being a failed antichrist, where he takes Arthur under his wing to edubecate him on his journey (Not as a father/Uncle figure, but more like that one super cool professor all of us have had who straight up makes us their sidekick). One of my favorite tropes is Merlin being a grump & a recluse when asked for help, yet immediately changing his entire demeanor at the mere mention of the word âmagicâ (not only do I see magic as Merlinâs one true hyper-fixation in life, but Iâm fairly certain itâs his trigger word, causing him to devolve into whatâs essentially just Jack Black).
So basically the mediaeval English invented the highschool romance anime.
oof
Just like the Irish basically creating Shounen anime with Cu Culain
@@Nzosaba_Matenge U mean seinen. I don't think shounen anime will show a man tieing himself to a rock using his intestines.
@@ac1281 Early Cu Culain seems to be incredibly shounen. Later Cu Culain, yes, VERY Seinen. However, I think that Fionn MacCunhail is more Shounen protagonist. Raised by specific people in the woods who train him, has awesomeness genetically encoded into him, goes out to honor his Father's memory, asks to join really cool fighty group, fights magic dude, leads fighty men, other stuff happens. Those two feel quite Shounen separately, but would just be a Shounen if they were combined.
@@ac1281 Fist of the North star was Shonen so maybe it would have been a Shonen in the 80s
I love how everyone is mad at Percival for doing exactly what he was told to do.
Don't do the thing
(Doesn't do the thing)
YOU ABSOLUTE BUFFOON
8:53
Well, it wasn't anyone at the banquet who told him that. It was some guy he traded with to get a horse.
because *_P L O T_*
Ribbons0121 R121 Why shouldnât you speak? Oh, well that would solve the problem easily and be a really boring story, so shut your mouth and go on a quest that could potentially get you killed but will be way more entertaining.
YAY! P L O T C O N V E N I E N C E ! ! !
The version of The Green knight I read from a British literature book, had the trial of the Green knight a test to see if Arthur and his knights were noble and honest. In fact, they go out of their way to describe Morgan as a benevelent but ultimately neutral Character to Arthur. She doesn't antagonize him because she hates him but to see if he is actually worthy of the throne and is upholding his moral obligations.
Oddly enough, this video reinforces the massacre I did to the mythos as backstory of an urban fantasy story (backstory only, main characters are a descendant of Morgan and a guy who finds Excalibur). Short form... "Arthur" was two separate people that Merlin was advisor to, Morganna was the McCoy to Merlin's Spock and 2nd Arthur's Kirk, Guinevere was a semi-fay shapeshifter and WAS the Green Knight, and Lancelot never existed.
So, seems like I'm in good company.
Oh yeah, Mordred only gets a mention of "I'm not sure WHO he was, but whatever he did set Merlin's plans back a couple centuries."
âIt would be a poly-armoryâ
... DID YOU JUST PUN?!
Sinful
of course
She has punned. She shall be *pun*ished.
Wait....
I died at that point. đ€Ł
That was really great in a few ways.
Me: I want to learn more about Arthurian legends and history!
*Sees how inconsistent, slanted, and convoluted it is*
Me: On second thought let's not go to Camelot. Tis a silly place.
MONTY PYTHON REFERENCE
I've been studying Arthurian legends half of my life. Trust me Red and Blue are just giving us the Cliff notes.
behold, Fate! [dies]
âWhat the heck Jeffery, thatâs not even slightly historically viable!â
Same Blue omg-
Every now and then i remember the mechanisms' take on arthurian myth, which set the whole thing on a wild west-themed space station, had Lancelot/Guenivere/Arthur as a poly(armored) triad, gave everybody guns, and had Mordred as Arthur's son (who was born as his daughter Morgause, and grew up and transitioned after being rescued by saxons from a Donner Party-level disaster of which he and gawain were the only survivors). also galahad was a preacher whose brain was (literally) fried by visions of the G.R.A.I.L. (which was the password to the station's extremely damaged and disused systems) which would allow the... protagonists... to power the engines and drive it away from the sun, except that mordred who went mad with grief after gawain went mad in general and killed all the saxons who raised him, killed arthur/guenivere/lancelot after they found the grail and drove the whole station into the sun, because reasons. also it was a musical and there were tarot themes!
"Let's not go to Camelot."
"Tis a silly place."
Spamalot!
âStrange women lying in ponds is no basis for a system of government!â
European or African swallow?
ni!
i love all of you
Im disappointed no one is mentioning her "poly-armory" joke
good news, the comment under yours is about that joke
It was pretty pun-ny
For real. That joke made me cackle like a scheming Morgan
I merely groaned...a friend of mine runs a shop in Hollywood that makes swords and armor for films (hence the goofy helmet in my profile picture) and, admittedly, it was a little funny the first 20,000 times I heard it.
I thought she was just saying it wrong, but this is better
Yep, Arthurian literature is at heart mostly ancient fan fiction but some things to consider:
1) The Romano/British Governor (cant remember which) who stayed behind was nick named Merlin as he was considered a wise old bird (i.e. he could think beyond breakfast.)
2) Pendragon most likely referred to the chief commander of the Romano British levies which followed Dragon standards (especially the cavalry)
3) Malory's 'Le Morte D Arthure' and other post 1066 literature was based upon a character who was an enemy of the SAXONs who where the defeated enemies of the ruling NORMAN aristocracy.
4) After 1066 all the Saxon literature was destroyed (except for the Saxon chronical & Beowulf) and the original Roman/Celtic lore was rewritten (Christianised).
Honestly, the best Arthur-Gwen-Lance triad and Mordred thing modern adaption is 'High Noon at Camelot' by the Mechanisms. IT'S WONDERFUL AND EVERYONE SHOULD LISTEN TO THIS ALBUM
YES MECHANISMS ARE SO GOOD
YES IT MADE ME CRY EVERYONE NEEDS TO LISTEN TO IT
I was looking for this comment!
YES HELLO I KNEW I'D FIND THE MECHS FANS HERE!!! Not me watching this video specifically to better understand what the hell is going on in High Noon Over Camelot (I was largely unfamiliar with the details of the Arthurian canon before)
YES YES YES YES
So excalibur basically means "neat sword"
no sword of power merlin calls it is sword of truth !
From the United K he's looking for heaven, I am goin to Californiaaaaa!
@@tyrant-den884 this is exactly what I wanted to happen. Thank you.
@@tyrant-den884 Blech!
@@ahmedamine24 Soul Eater.
I'm waiting when in year 4020, people try to figure out if this statue of a dude with a shield who has a million conflicted stories written about him is a real person or not.
Captain America: America's King Arthur
đđđđ
people will debate on whether the ironclad noble stark is in the right or the man with the shield
Ok but imagine if they do that about George Washington.
The actual Civil War shall be forgotten and only the 2016 Russo Bros Civil War shall be remembered
At that point they will have cloned Stan Lee
About both King Arthur becoming a mythos moreso than history, and oddly enough French fanfics, I want to point out France fairly recently had some sort of adaptation of the myth that kinda became a staple in french TV comedy. It's simply named Kaamelott and is kind of a sitcom about a burnt out King Arthur having to deal with his knights and Merlin's shenanigans.
Just wanted to mention that and I would gladly recommend the show BUT it's humor is extremely french and I don't think there's an official dub or sub anyways.
Arthurian myth is very hard to research. I wanted to write a story that was a prequel prequel. Like before even Uther Pendragon but itâs really hard when everyone has like seven sisters and forty grandchildren.
so wait, Merlin went from a Druid to "Child blessed by both heaven and hell and now is pretty much can do magic"? WHY
Personally, I find latter version far more compelling. Merlin being Chaotic Good is surely a sight to behold
And now marlin is a sexy witch fighting alongside sir meliodes and the 7 deadly sins against the 10 commandments đ
@@cuckoo-clockheart huh
@@cuckoo-clockheart great anime đ
Personally I go with the legend of Dinas emrys. Where Merlin was supposed to be sacrificed to god because vortigerns (one of the many princes in Wales) castle kept falling down. Merlin explain it was because of two dragons fighting in a pool under the hill Vortigern was building building his fancy new castle on. So they dug into the side of the mountain and there where two dragons fighting. One red (the welsh) and one white (the Anglo-saxons) after three days the dragons stopped fighting because the white dragon flew away with a rather large hole in the side of its neck. See this myth is symbolic of the welsh fighting against Anglo Saxon conquest. Very symbolic, and may I say Merlin was between the age of 5-8 so go read the Mabinogion. Itâs actually really interesting and welsh mythology is sick af! This story is also why the welsh have a cool kick ass dragon in their flag
Every addition to and story of King Arthur can be summed up as âyes, andâ
So can most mythology, really.
And also often "no, and" when it comes to Lancelot.
@@SomeCrusader yea I was gonna say
@@SomeCrusader yea I was gonna say
I think it amusing that even after finding herself and becoming a better person, she neglected to correct a major deed she did to Arthur by retrieving the scabbard of Excalibur that she stole and threw into a lake. It kept him from being mortally wounded in battle. So not having it in his final battle against Mordred really did screw him over.
I genuinely loved your rendition of "If Ever I Would Leave You." It is such an epically beautiful song, and your version was certainly no exception. So, I guess I'm trying to say thank you for recording it and putting it in video. Sorry, that song makes me feel things, and I'm not great with that, but I thought it was worth my uncomfortable stumbling to let you know that I really did love your version.
Fisher King: Donât talk too much
Percival: Okay
Courtier: _Why didnât you ask what this weird shit is for_
This is like that cliche where a woman screams at her boyfriend to leave and when he does, she gets Huffy because he left
Bawhahahahah
Man Percival was just being genre savvy. When weird fae folks tell you not to do a thing - you usually arent supposed to do the opposite.
Also its at 8:53
Forgot what my comment was even about so I had to find the part again lmao
"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries"
I fart in your general direction!
Nils Vos What!? is your favorite color?
Mc Jethro Pov Tee
"Yellow."
Mc Jethro Pov Tee probably that mossy shade of green, not too bright nor too dark
We are the knights who say NI!
Aunt Guinevere, are you familiar with the phrase "Incest is wincest"?
That made me die laughing.
15:01 concitering the fact that I don't know the full story here, I would like to assume Morgan captured Lancelot, who kept loudly complaining. In an attempt to shut him up, she just threw a box of chalk at him to get him to stop talking. Which he uses to VERY DESCRIPTIVLY record every little part of his affair with Guinevere upon his cell walls. Morgan just gets fed up and threw him out.
I know that's almost definitely NOT the original context for this part of the story, but it's probably a lot funnier than the original version. I really gotta look into these old legends!
You left out the part where Author had two coconuts and was banging them together.
No that's his servant
Where did he even find coconuts, a tropical fruit, in England of all things? A swallow?
ColbaltMind African or European?
@@colbaltmind5696 its a monty python reference.
@@RandomThoughtsFromEll r/woosh
I wanted to learn about King Arthur and ended up reading a 800000 word visual novel over the course of a year and a half
h.....homestuck?
@@charliemcfadden5882 fate stay night
at least you also learned about the Epic of Gilgamesh too
@@taipusuisei1355 and cu chulainn
Fate Stay Night ?
Iâd hate for my professor to find out that you broke down an entire semester of an introduction to Arthuriana into a very well written 24 minute video đ
The show Merlin has one of the most obsessive and ravenous fanbases I've ever seen.
Fantasy Politics
**Guy* *pulls* *a* *sword* *out* *of* *a* *stone**
Random person: That Guy should rule our country!
Except for discworld. In discworld, the people realize that it's the guy who put the sword into the rock who did the hardest work.
SylenDraws In the 19th century the way they selected royalty was also pretty weird, a lot of Kingdoms that were formed Europe (mostly recently independent chunks of the Balkans that the Ottoman Empire coughed up in its prolonged death throws) often just invited random Germans nobles to be Kings without actually having to know anything about the country theyâre going to rule, looking back itâs kind of bizarre.
âYou canât Expect to wield supreme power because Some Watery Tart threw a sword at youâ
"Well i didn't vote for him!"
congratulations if you got that reference
you have comedic taste
It's THE PROPHECY! *guitar riff*
It's funny to know that Fate's version of Merlin as a half-incubus clairvoyant magic womanizer bishie actually has a basis aside from the bishie part.
Yohane-sama's Little Demon which you always borrow from your friend.
Actually, the bishie part also has basis because Merlin could alter his appearance at will, since he variously appeared to Arthur as an old man, a young boy, and a young man.
He's also a cock wizard. This is canon.
@@wackyname6445 The familiar who happens to be one of the beasts of humanity, yeah XD
@mika tepes It's set in a world where mages and mythologies are real, Vampires are a thing, you can have eyes that see the weak point of things, the planets have personifications and dead heroes get sent outside of time and THAT'S what you get hung up on?
Can... Can you go into more depth on the Merlin ageing backwards thing please? This video was excellent, thank you so much, I really have been finding it very difficult to find a starting point for Arthurian Legend. I really would love another video on the history of Merlin though because I have heard so many different versions of his backstory and I have no idea which is which!
Merlin, under the spelling Merlyn, ages backwards in T.H. White's series of books "The Once and Future King," an adaptation of Arthurian legend, which includes "The Sword in the Stone" that was adapted into the Disney film. This aspect hadn't been part of the character until then.
11:03 insert Ice king's voice* "If you were a princess, I'd steal you first!"
I know it's spelled "Engla-land" but every time I hear it I just think "ah yes, angle land. Land of angles."
They're really obtuse
Legend has it that Pope Gregory, on encountering some foreign slaves in an Italian market and learning what people they were responded "Not Angles but angels", so puns on the name go back at least as far as the late 6th century.
That's where it came from, the angles and the Saxons went to what would be england.
just make the whole country in the shape of a 30-60-90 triangle, land of angles right there. or a giant unit circle, however they'd accomplish that
If the Anglos didn't invade it England would be called by latinization Seaxland, which in turn would be anglified into Sexland
"What if King Arthur was a lady ?" welp here comes the massive influx of Fate fans
CĂș already got raided, now for this to happen
I can hear the lofi getting closer and closer... God save us.
King Arthur was a lady and she was a badass heroic spirit that traveld across time to modern day Japan to fight for the holy grail... plot twist her lovely master becomes a heroic spirt that falls in love with his adversary Rin tosaka, whose heroic spirit is Arthur's master đđđ
Now that's how you write fan fic
Bonjour.
*laughs in Eiyuu Senki*
Oi, we also got CĂč, Achilles, Siegfried and lots of historical characters as girls.
"What if Merlin was a skinny British kid?" TBF, the BBC/Shine Merlin wasn't just that - it was also "What if magic was banned on pain of death?" Also, I still feel completely cheated that we never got our Golden Age. Yes, it's been a decade and I'm still angry about it!
How dare those clotpoles
I think we can all agree that the Celtic elements have always been the coolest part of Arthurian legends.
By the way, this video was super interesting as a way of finding out how the characters, that have featured in so many of my favorite stories, came to be the way they are.
I love the fact that one of the most respected legends of our time is almost entirely made up of ancient fan fiction.
Why does the line "What if Merlin was a skinny British kid" get me every time. It's such a perfect delivery
Iâve been reading Merlin fanfic a lot really. The cycle of adaptation continues!
...All this talk about Cheating being thought-to-be-okay and then changing into
the objectively better "Be loyal to your wife already, dimwit!" is reminding
me of all the Polygamy-Propaganda nowadays.
People get (on varying levels) more and more into the idea that Polygamy is ok - or more.
Or actually awesome - or more.
And the most intense say it's the nature of all humans and everyone who doesnt do it
is a stupid Loser (no kidding, some say this). Yeah, some even outright insult Monogamy and say it's outdated and should die
already. Well, i answer to that: "No, Polygamy should die already."
BBC Merlon??
merlin??
Idk where youâre getting that from, unless youâre conflating polygamy with casual sex and/or free love. Polygamy is still very stigmatized in most communities, and even the more casual polyamory is still pretty uncommon and often derided. Casual sex is pretty common these days, but it always has been. The difference is people are more open about it and a lot less ashamed due to the rise of secularism/atheism and the rejection of traditional ideas about sex and relationships in favor of a philosophy of mutual respect and consent. Basically, times are a changinâ and you can either fight it fruitlessly or come along for the ride. You donât have to drop your own ideals to coexist with others who have different ideals.
My favorite extension of this is Beyond the Red Mirror, which is possibly about a Mordred that survived the battle against king arthur, began worshiping a demonic flame and began literally burning his way across fiction in a war to free himself and others from fate. Due to the vagueness of the lyrics, he either targets the lands of forgotten stories to bring light to now dark realms, or is the reason these old stories are being forgotten in the first place.
This is assuming "Imaginations from the other side" is connected to beyond the red mirror though, instead of just "and the story ends"
...you just made me relisten to those albums
Arthur, smiling and holding Gweniveirs hand: This is my wife Gweniveir.
Random person: whoâs he then?
Arthur, still smiling: Thatâs my wifeâs boyfriend and my best friend.
Gweniveir, holding both of her boytoys close: Weâre all very happy.
The boytoys, nodding.
History: *exists*
Fate fans: allow us to introduce ourselves
yeah... im stil waiting for typemoon to look to latin america and SEE THERE IS MORE THAN MEXICO HERE!
I mean we have Simon Bolivar, Juana de Azurduy, José de San Martin, the sabers, riders, rulers and avengers practically write themselves!
I would even accept Sor Juana Ines dela Cruz as Caster (i know she is from mexico, my point still holds water)
@@PutoMedicoBrujo let's add more to the list of possible Latin American and other Servants: Francis Morasan, Jose Cesilio del Valle, Lempira, William Walker, Ned Kelly, ect
@@PutoMedicoBrujo naw we need another saber
Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste!
(If you can't continue the song, you don't know your Vietnam War music enough.)
Is it a waifu?
MAKE IT ONE
Fun fact: The other year a little girl found an aged sword in the bottom lake in Cornwall (where Excalibur is believed to rest). Sure, it was probably a movie prop. But what I would give to feel how she felt in that moment. Mythic.
Rubbish Log She is the new King
Rubbish Log Welp, step aside Queen Elizabeth II, you're reign is over
There actually is precedent for ancient celts to dispose of swords by throwing them in lakes, so she might have found an actual ancient sword
Apparently the parents investigate a little and found out it was a prop for a movie but I'm not really sure.
Until the awed masses decide they want the little girl who got a magic sword from a fairy to be their king/queen
Need more of that voice! Singing is lovely and the mythology stuff is amazingly well put together. The art is pretty fantastic too, despite being really minimalist
I highly recommend listening to High Noon over Camelot by The Mechanisms for a good Gwen/Arthur/Lancelot poly-armory! It also handles Mordred in an extremely interesting way. Plus Lancelot and Galahad are played by Jonny Sims who wrote TMA and played Jon/Archivist and Mordred is played by Basira's Voice Actor!
and guimevere is portrayed by jessica law, who voiced nikola orsinov! plus gunpowder tim played ant man exterminator jordan kennedy in tma. theres a lot of overlap between the mechs and tma
Wait... youâre telling me Merlin being basically a demon isnât something made up by the Fate Franchise?
...Yes no matter how luscious it is.
*MERLIN IS A TIEFLING*
As bizarre as the character designs in Fate are they usually get the lore generally right
@@phenjaws569 Kinoko Nasu must've had a very warped perspective on history and mythology as a whole when he first created the series.
Juwan Bantug its like the dude knew ALL the lore, but the simple concept of gender got lost in translation
I'll be honest, I think this is the first time I've ever heard the proper Arthurian canon. I'd only ever heard bits and pieces of stories, typically from modern re-imaginings. So thanks for giving me something to recognize being re-imagined! Also I love how Galahad is an idealized fanfic of an idealized fanfic.
Jack Rackam If you look carefully enough, almost any âClassicâ is a fan fiction or a rewrite of an older story.
In terms of a coherent narrative, start with 'The History of the Kings of Britain' by Geoffrey of Monmouth. From my admittedly non-organized reading, I recall that some scholars think he made use of a good bit of existing oral material in writing his version of British history. Wace and Lawman produced their own interpretations, and there's one with a decidedly Celtic spin to it on Aka Mary Jones.
In addition, there's a site called www.heroofcamelot.com and The Camelot Project (University of Rochester).
Over on Project Gutenberg, you can find plenty of Arthurian material as well.
Gawain, Lancelot, Percival, and Galahad all began as Gary Stu types.
You forgot the giant boar with a comb and shears between its ears.
Celtic myth is weird.
I've read the stories in the Mabinogion.
'Celtic Myth and Arthurian Romance' by Roger Sherman Loomis is an interesting read. He also wrote 'The Grail: From Celtic Myth to Christian Symbol.'
As a big fan of Kieron Gillen's "Once and Future" comic this video did a great job laying out the convoluted background of King Arthur and makes me appreciate the comic a lot more. Definitely recommended reading for anyone interested in reading King Arthur in a metatextual way, or just anyone who wants to watch resurrected zombie kings and knights maul each other all across modern day England. Good stuff. Also polyarmoury is IMMEDIATELY going into my personal lexicon.
The idea that the cornerstone of most British myth is basically a series of fanfic authors fighting over the themes of the story and trying to one-up each other's characters is deeply amusing.
Also probably true of a great many other mythologies around the globe - at least the super-hero comics are more up-front about it.
"Everyone knows Merlin, but what if Merlin was a skinny British kid?" *The Kid Who Would Be King raised you one*
Sam Vidas no he couldnât because of the act of settlement
Why was Merlin an old man pretending to be a child in that movie?
@@jessecollins3652 Ikr like if that scenario happened irl Merlin would probably end up being on multiple sex offender registries
@@boohooter23 true, but I think having the literal anti-christ who's evil destiny was avoided by dunking him in some holy water, making him a near omnipotent autistic wizard instead would be a bit much for a kids movie.
That said, I really want that to be made into a film some day.
Jesse Collins Lol he wasnât. They just made Merlin the same age as Arthur in BBCâs Merlin
In medieval times it was traditional that a nephew would be a pretty close figure to the uncle, as people would send their kids to their more successful uncles to be trained by them at around age 12 and that would be a natural transition into adulthood, for people who had more successful brothers. for the kid it was almost an adoption process, where the father figure would be shifted towards the uncle.
So Arthur would be extremelly close to Mordred by those standards especially considering Arthur had no sons and Mordred being the son of his sister was next in line for the succession of the throne.
Arthur had three legitimate sons, the last of whom died in the Strife of Camlann. Llacheu (no, I have no idea how that was pronounced), who was killed by Sir Kay (yes, Arthur's _foster brother_ killed him) so he could claim the glory the prince had won in slaying a giant, Loholt, who was killed by magic and haunted his tomb as a fey ghost, and Durant, who died the same day Mordred did, possibly even killed _by Mordred._
Under tanistry, a nephew would be more likely be selected as the next king than a son. The primogenitur thing didn't really start happening until late in the Anglo-Saxon/Danish period (and even that was a witan decision in the end), and wasn't a settled matter until after the Norman conquest.
See also Eomer and Theoden in LotR.
If I remember right gawain is the older brother of mordred making him the next in line
But remember, heâs dead.đ
Mash calls Lancelot âFatherâ with a heart warming smile đ. Lancelot half beaten by his daughter for being a dead beat failure of a father and being an accessory to war crimes âPlease donât call me that. My heart canât take it.â
Not in the game.
There was actually another portion to the Lancelot/Guinevere/Arthur thing in a version I read once. There was another knight who was literally in love with lancelot named Galehaut who I've never seen in any other version of the story. From what I can tell he isn't a modern creation either just got removed at some point for reasons I think you can guess.
Galehaut gets mentioned in Red's video about Arthur's knights. There are many rainbows. :)
Is this from the Vulgate Cycle? I distinctly remember that from the last chapter of the 2nd volume (of the modern translation).
"If Arthur, Guinevere and Lancelot had all just been honest about their feelings and entered into a mutually supportive romantic relationship, we could've called it a polyarmory" The best summary of King Arthur ever.
Edit: What is Mechs
Cries in high noon over Camelot
That's practically text in T H White's version (The Once And Future King, mostly based on Malory, the first portion of which, The Sword In The Stone, was Disney's inspiration for their movie): in White's canon, Arthur knows about Lancelot and Guinevere's relationship before it happens (thanks to Merlin knowing the future) - and, by the end, everyone knows about it, but no-one says anything because a) Arthur's obviously okay with it, and b) official acknowledgement of it would mean the two of them facing the penalties for treason. No-one, that is, except Mordred, who forces the issue, with Arthur reluctantly allowing investigation to be carried out and the course of the law to be followed. Lancelot rescues Guinevere from execution and secures her absolution from the Pope, but Arthur can't avoid going to war with Lancelot, leaving Mordred in charge - who promptly sets out to usurp the throne and take Guinevere as his wife.
Now, I'd want to read that!
*fanfiction time*
@@ellendavis9272 I see you, fellow Mechs fan. Although the ending wasn't much better.
So this tells me that the Fate/ interpretation of Arthurian legends is just as valid as any other version.
Yep
To be fair, the Fate multiverse almost accepted the polyamory. But then Morgan and Agravain happened and Lancelot went insane with guilt and envy, Mordred got tired of his/her dad/mom's bullshit, and Arthur still has no idea what "ruling" is even after multiple "Get-Out-of-Timeline" free cards.
Given how Fate servants work, I for one want to know what Clark Kent-like shenanigans Artoria was pulling off to convincingly pass off as a king rather than queen back in her time.
@@sonokawaray Guinevere was in on it, Kay was constantly running interference with the other knights, and Avalon stopped her aging so they never had to deal with things like LArtoria's supermassive tits and they could conceivably pass everything else off as Artoria just being a permanently prepubescent boy.
Does these mean that that universe where a elementary school Shirou defeats an adolescent Jeanne only for them to reunite when he summons her in that version of the war is Canon too?
While you briefly mention it here, I adore what the fate series did with arthurian legend. There's far more to it than just arthur but girl. Everything is tweaked but in ways that make everyone more interesting. For example arthuria has more than just a genderbend, she's shown to be a king who fought endlessly for her kingdom and subjects even as the kingdom collapsed around her and she ended up dying alone on the battlefield. This version was both to kind but also pigheaded in her assurance that what she was doing was right, something Gilgamesh and alexander the great call her soon in a great scene where they argue how a king should act.
Mordred is originally a pawn by Morgan but by the time she makes her move Morgan has given up on trying to take over so it's Mordred's own plan and desire. A desire to destroy her father, a desire for chaos that is sewn into her very soul, but at the same time she admires Arthuria and has nothing but respect for her. Her rebellion is almost a cry for attention.
Gawain is made a borderline demigod with the claim that his power rises with the sun being made an actual power, that he becomes more powerful as the sun rises through the day but weaker as it sets. He also shows a general cheerfulness even when things get serious as well as a love for the other nights and his family.
Lancelot is probably the only weird one as the series contradicts itself about his punishment about the whole affair. In the prequal anime Fate Zero it's established that not only did Arthuria not punish them, she practically gave them her blessing, something that ended up driving Lancelot mad as he believed he had to be punished for his crimes and as a result became the black knight. But in the more recent Fate Grand order they confirm that Arthuria did punish them and he saved gweniver from her execution and killed several knights along the way. But both versions of lancelot are interesting to observe regardless.
The series just cleans up the legend nicer in my opinion while still making it more interesting and unique.
Zero Artoria is a weird character, specially considering the other versions, like Zero is classified as a alternative reality despite being a prequel (they do this because it gives the witters more freedom to change stuff without contradicting the original), so I don't recommend taking stuff from there seriously when it comes to Artoria.
Like her whole deal in other Fate media is that she never had the freedom to do what she wanted, she was always destined to be a king since she was born, as a result she had to kill her own feelings and humanity to the greater good, so she smiled at the happiness of the people around her knowing that she would never have the freedom to feel the same, but as a result of her growing up like this she ended up not understanding human emotions, feelings like love for example, or even the morality of her own actions, as a result according to some translations she started to sacrifice her villages to the greater good, usually in demands to war against invaders and Rome, I think that in a material it was even said that she burned some of them in order to push away invaders, all for the greater good, her knights were obviously horrified by this, which resulted in Tristan leaving the Round Table, and claiming that their king does not understand the heart of the men, Lancelot did not understand it until the whole affair with Guinevere (who was only married for political reasons) happened, and Artoria's reaction was simply being happy about it, even though it caused an entire public problem which damaged both Lancelot, Guinevere and Artoria's reputation, she was just happy about their feelings, that's how much she doesn't understand it, Lancelot ended up being horrified by her lack of human emotions and proceeded to go crazy until he died, and despite her lack of humanity being what would make her a perfect king according to Merlin and Uther it was ultimately her incapability of understanding humans what ended up causing the downfall of her kingdom, along with the her subjects not understanding her, it's complicated, no one involved is really innocent when it comes to the downfall of Camelot, if Artoria understood other human emotions and did not make everyone horrified by her lack of feelings maybe they would approve her and the rebellion wouldn't have started, but then again if this happened the country wouldn't even be able to get stabilized, it was her lack of emotions what saved the country, in certain ways she was really the perfect king they could've hoped for, and that's why I like it, nobody here is innocent and that's what makes it interesting.
Also some of my favorite fun facts about Fate's version of the Arthurian legends:
Artoria was technically 36 years old by the time she died, however her sword/scabbard stopped her from aging.
Caliburn (her original sword) broke because she broke her chivalry code due to a trap set by Morgan.
Morgan has a split personality, she is either a caring older sister to Artoria, Vivian The Lady Of The Lake or Morgan Le Fay, the one who created Mordred and tried to take over Camelot, meaning that Morgan did both break Caliburn and give Artoria Excalibur.
Artoria's uncle, Vortigern, is a literal giant Black Dragon, and also the embodiment of the entire Britain, this makes me wonder if since she has a dragon core inside her maybe one day she would also become a giant Red Dragon, this family wasn't called Pendragon for nothing.
I love your cover of âif ever I would leave youâ itâs so good, I canât I love it so much, I suck at putting things into words, and explaining thatâs (in part) why I love your videos, your just so good at explaining
OMG im dying, when Morgan shows Arthur the giant painting of Lancelot and Guinevere its like those cheaters that make videos or selfies together, IDk Lancelot is stupid. hahahahaha
He literally posted it on his wall!