Why leg extensions beat squats for the quads [study]
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- čas přidán 12. 07. 2024
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Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
00:32 The problem with squats
01:29 Studies
02:33 Optimal way to train the quads
Reference:
• A simple trick to get ...
www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/...
journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/fu...
journals.humankinetics.com/vi...
link.springer.com/article/10....
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
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Great stuff, Menno. Thank you very much for this information
I've heard your name thousands of times over the last decade 😀 as a reference from mass influencers even the Turkish, local influencers. It is really helpful for people like me who do not want to double check every article explanation myself, I am learning directly from the source. Thanks.
Great content
Jay Cutler always did a lot of leg extensions. He had insane rectus femoris development, even compared to most pros.
That level is all genetics
I heard an interview with him where he mentioned leg extensions was all he did for legs for a while.
He was juiced up to the gills, don’t used PED users as comparable data to naturals
@@ryandilegge297its never ALL genetics, but genetics does play a role.
@blagerthorpnonersense1894 elite level is 100% genetics, or they wouldn't be there blame and simple. You'll never realize how truly far away something like that is unless uve tried it yourself. Freaks exist and we enjoy watching them, but we can't all be them
Reverse nordics are awesome if you don’t have a leg extension machine. I actually prefer the reverse nordics cause you get better lengthening than the leg extension machine
I love these too!! I literally just commented about them but didn’t know what to call them, I just called them a kneeling sissy squat but reverse Nordic makes more sense.
Yep, they've been a regular inclusion in my programs since the pandemic, ha.
Yep, they've been a regular inclusion in my programs since the pandemic, ha.
This is also called sissy squat ?
@@deanpaulson6714 no.
Sissy starts from a stand up position and ends with a stand up position.
Menno loved the title of your video...
My single best exercises that can offer
1) stretch mediated hypertrophy
2) hitting all 3 vastus and rectus femoris muscles and
3) exhibit a resistance curve where the load increases as you approach ur most stretched position and hence
4) are great candiate even for lengthened partials should you choose to do them and
5) where the reps begin first with the negative instead of the positive
are a) kneeling quad extentions (reverse nordics),
b) leaning back sissy squats, or
c) leaning back on a quad developer machine like the one from west side.
In my opinion, sticking to either a, b or c, should be your best bet if you only had to choose one exercise
as the most complete way to train your quads.
But If your split allows it, I would pair one of a, b or c, with extentions done on a leg extention machine.
Which brings me to my final point,... why oh why isn't a gym equipement manufacturer make a unilateral, plate loaded, dual action, seated/lying leg extention machine.
great video! Is the sissy squat roman chair apparatus also effective for the rectus femoris?
Awesome makes perfect sense. I like to do a kneeling sissy squat or “reverse Nordic” at the end of my quad day. Can you talk about if doing a super wide sumo stance during squat really targets the glutes more?
I love that one. And regular sissy squat
I have recently starting adding sissy squats to my leg routine. Definitely feeling the rectus femoris engaging a lot more.
it doesn't. Bret Contreras made a video about that years ago if you want more info.
@mennohenselmans I love a study based approach but I find that studies are all based on traditional techniques. I've been experimenting with my training methods, especially with quads. By modifying the squat and leg extension and lowering the weight to very very low, I am now seeing results that I have never experienced before. At 53, I have actual stretch marks on my quads! Low here means super light weights. With this method, heavy weights are not possible. However, if I switch back to conventional methods I can use heavier weights than before.
I get a pretty gnarly quad pump from leg extensions that I haven't really been able to replicate with a squat pattern. Good to know that there was a good reason for me to put leg extensions back into my program. I felt I was missing something with just squats alone.
Even when I don't have access to leg extensions, like when my gym is shut down , I try to do reverse Nordics or sissy squats for a leg extension variation.
@@jeffbunnell9961 Reverse nordics are a good suggestion, absolutely gnarly quad stretch. I use them briefly at the end of my warmups to see how my quads are feeling💪
The pump doesn't mean anything
I use cables and do Doug's sissy squats. I also do leg extensions and do squats on a machine.
Hey Menno, great vid thanks. What about reverse nordic curls? Any opinion on those?
This totally explains why my quads have the shape they do compared to body builders. I look at body builders and see they have this fullness down to their knees that my quads do not. Glad i got a gym membership again so i can work on all the muscles in my quads more evenly.
i do hack squat full knee flexion and leg extension of pausing 2-3 at the top. my quads have grown alot since doing them.
I feel when I have been doing sissy squats, it engages the rectus femoris. This a good option as well as leg extensions?
Yes
I do reverse nordics to hit the rec fem at the end of leg days is that enough volume u think?
@mennohenselmans LOWBAR, HIGH BAR OR FRONT SQUAT? LONG FEMURS , SHORT TORSO ALSO FOR BALANCE, PHYSIQUE AND ALSO HYPERTROPHY
Is there benefit in doing leg extensionsn for powerlifting?
What about the reverse nordic or sissy squat? Do they train the rectus femoris?
The more upright you are and the less glute involvement there is, the more you'll include the RF, yes.
So then, for a power lifter, would that mean leg extensions perhaps aren’t the best use of your hypertrophy allocation slots? That is, if the rectus tenor is doesn’t activate during a squat would you be better off spending your hypertrophy work on exercises that preferentially hypertrophy the vasti muscles?
hey menno , in a home gym would it work to do sissy squats and bulgarian split squats for quad development?
That can work, yes. Reverse nordic hams too.
Combining both exercises in same session has given me leagues of more soreness. Usually train extensions after the squat
Classic Squat is more inefficient, you're always going to need leg extension if you do squat in same session. Just do high heel /heel elevated 5cm squat, which is superior to "classic" squat because it increases demands on quads. If you perform high heel squat (5 to 7cm elevation) dont do leg press on the same session
Also I will just say, if you cook your quads first with the leg extension then you can obtain the same hypertrophic response with less weight on the squat after
If I do lying double leg raises on the bench, I only feel them in my abs. If I do single leg raises (one foot on the floor), then I feel them in my hip flexors
Can i ask sir menno do we need to train the adductors? How to avoid straining it?
Of course you do. If you want to avoid straining then train it
leg press leg extension and hammy curl is all you need
machines ftw
Can you perform Leg raises 1 leg at a time to save the back?
What about the raw stimulus magnitude?
Does it still apply.
I have a home gym, and as well as barbell squats I have a sissy squat bench. Does anyone know if this will work as a finisher instead of leg extension?
The problem with leg extensions in my case is, that we have shitty machines in my gym. I can only go down to about 90° and so can't really stretch the quads properly.
Yeah, many manufacturers are pretty crappy. Reverse nordics, sissy squats and the are sometimes better or good as supplements for the deep stretch then.
I have a long torso so even if i like them, my long core is the weak link. Leg presses are getting me waaay more results
Would reverse Nordics work as well as leg extensions for rectus femoris?
If you do them correctly(leaning back) then yes
No
It always baffled me that people could argue that leg extensions are a “bad quad exercise”, given that it trains the primary function of the quads directly.
yeah, it`s like saying overhead rope extensions are bad for triceps
What about heel elevated squats, where your upper body stays pretty upright and it's mostly a knee extension?
If you are flexing your knee joint and hip joint during the eccentric portion of a movement it won’t work your rectus femoris save some stabilization
Heel elevated squats do not get rid of the flexion of the hip joint. They may allow you to keep ur torso more upright but u'd still have to engage in considerable hip flexion if you were to perform proper deep squats.
How about the femur length does it has an impact on quad development according to the scientific literature?
Not by itself, no.
I can't squat due to a hernia so this is great to know
Menno, did you agree with most of what Doug Brignole said?
But during lying leg raises the rectus femoris may still be in active insufficiency because the knee is extended.
In that case wouldn't reverse nordic or sissy squats be better?
Let me go a little further. I've tried doing lying leg raises with FLEXED knees but I find them uncomfortable. They feel weird.
At least in theory I think about another excercise:
Something like a reverse nordic, but instead of extending the knee, leaving it flexed but flexing the hip, like sitting up.
Has anyone tried something like this?
Do squats effectively help develop the glutes? How inferior are they in that capacity to hip thrusts?
They are similar to or better than hip thrusts in glute development depending on the study
The question is, were the squats done in these studies, with full rom or emphasis on the lengthened position?
Dont forget Sissy Squats!!!!
There’s also another leg extension-type movement where you can get the range of motion that’s unreachable on the machine….
The kneeling quad extension 💪
Why would anyone think squats were a better quadriceps exercise than leg extensions? It just wouldn’t make sense that squats could be better than leg extensions for the quadriceps specifically even if there wasn’t scientific evidence
A squat not only is a compound movement but also a weighted calisthenics movement so you’re fatiguing not only other muscles than the quadriceps but also moving your body through space so after so many reps you’re wasting energy on those things rather than just on the quadriceps like in a leg extension where you’re sat down on your bum quite literally only activating the quadriceps and maybe the calves a tiny bit. If you asked a monkey to choose one of those exercises for his quadriceps muscles he would surely choose the leg extension. The squat is a full lower body compound movement that’s also calisthenics while the leg extension is a quadriceps isolation exercise done while completely still and sitting, so it has two reasons it would be obviously better for the quadriceps. Great video
From what I hear it's the squat's' "compoundedness" that makes it superior. Thus, because leg extensions are an isolation movement they are inferior. At least that's the argument I've read over the years, and possibly emotional attachment to the big 3.
@@jeffbunnell9961 I think squats are definitely a superior exercise in terms of overall leg fitness and general fitness, the leg extension is just a superior “quadriceps” exercise
@@bradenwalker3923 I agree
@@jeffbunnell9961because the squat focus on stretch mediated hypertrophy, leg extensions are about squeeze, where the stretch has been shown to be more hypertrophic
You are Lex Fridman for fitness.
I'll take that as a compliment.
NOT SURE I AGREE, MENNO, once when i did single leg leg presses, my rectus femoris got so pumped and activatedd it was popping out of my quad like ive never seen before or since. i was shocked thot maybe i pulled a muscle or something. IT WAS literally about 3/4 of an inch higher than quads on either side!? you could even see it thru my jeans cuz i went straight home.
So if your premise is true for squats , why isnt it true for one leg leg presses?
Please read Doug Brignole s book .
Doug Brignole would be proud of you
Is better to put
Leg extension first
And then squats tips?
I would generally put compound movements first in that scenario if you are doing a traditional quad/leg day.
I prefer doing leg extensions first for 2 reasons - 1. they're not really that exhausting compared so they don't affect the rest of my training much, squats first would beat me up so much it would affect my performance at the leg extensions; 2. as a pre-exhaust - helps quads become the limiting factor on the upcoming squat sets
Add cheap amazon Yoga pads between shins and leg extension pad, it's 💰. I also like to belt myself in, more stability, higher output.
Since rec fem isnt a priority for me rn i just do split squats for them
i wish i knew this a year ago
I wonder if you need leg extensions for athletic movements tho, such as kicking and stuff
This study is for posing competition, not for athletic stuff. There’s big difference between posing and athletic endeavours
@@jacklauren9359 I knowb
What about reverse Nordics?
Thanks first of all. However, pretty localized topic to begin with. One should focus on overall strength first and then segway into paying special attention to a muscle. At least people who want functional growth, somebody who wants to perform better in a complex activity or sport persay. Having the "I want best hypertrophy in quads or biceps or abdominals" alone would force future bias and deficiencies in a consolidated overall structure.
It is logically very obvious that specialized single-handed focus or in other words isolation would always lead to great gains locally. Nobody would usually think that squat would ever cause more hypertrophy in quads than a quad-centric exercise. Nobody would every assume that general pull ups would cause greater growth in biceps than proper curls.
Every bodybuilder and powerlifter I've ever spoken to (a lot) would disagree, as do I.
As an alternative you can also perform a sissy squat. I prefer the classic one without a sissy squat machine.
So can I do just leg extensions and not squats
What are some alternatives for leg extensions? Because, after trying many machines and intensity/volumes, leg extensions ALWAYS give me knee pain. Squats however make my knees feel good and strong, I don't understand why.
Can you build decent quads with just Leg extensions?
A major caveat is that a lot of leg extension machines are pretty garbage in terms of their ROM and resistance curve
But if it's a decent one, not even an ideal one, then you'd be a fool not to include them. As much as sissy squats and reverse nordics are useful in situations with minimal equipment, the variable loading on leg extensions is unbeatable
You can still plate load ur sissy squats or ur reverse nordics... and pair them with leg extentions for great looking quads
Nordic squats or reverse Nordic ??
I tore a little bit of my rectus femoris doing a 100 kg squat last year. I usually trained with 105-110 at the time. Does this imply that my rectus femoris was way too weak and tore under the tension that didn't effectively help out my knee extension?
I think so, but if you have some wisdom to add that would be awesome :D
Since i started sissy squads i see rectus femoris growth
What about reverse Nordic ? They are like leg extensions but you can stretch the heck out of the quads
What about sissy squats? As per Doug Brignole.
Still wouldn't seem to address the rectus issue.
In dougs video, he keeps the angle of the hip constant so I would guess it would allow the rectus femoris to engage. I do something similar just leaning back - I don't have cables but just support myself from losing balance by holding on to my power cage.
For those wondering, the Doug Brignole variation is not the one we see in his "Brignole muscle mechanics" video.
To see/understand it, check the video from Alex Leonidas " The BEST Bodyweight Quad Exercise! "
It looks great, can't wait to try it! Thanks for the suggestion @pgtigercat5786 !
EDIT: I've tried it, it's a very good exercise with a great stretch and enough tension even for advanced lifters.
leg extensions are the preacher curl of quads, you dont get rid of all back exercises the same way you dont get rid of squats
I built my legs from leg extensions and ppl don’t believe me when i say i dont squat 😊
SAM SULEK WAS RIGHT, BRO. THE BROS ALWAYS KNOWWWWWW
Be prepared for a LOT of anti science bro replies 😄😄
Every. Single. Post.
Just do them all, squats, bulgarian split squats, lunges, leg extensions.
Sissy squat also works rectus femoris, good substitute for homegym people
@@devoncampbell531 Luv this
@@devoncampbell531pendulum sissy squat for the win
No
@@PACHOUSEFITNESS WEAK!
Theory of active insufficiency. The rec fem being bi articulate can not optimally contract at both the knee and hip joints at the same time.
Therefore it is lengthened during the concentric movement of the squat at the hip joint while extending the hip and shortened at the knee joint.
If the hip is kept flexed as in the seated leg extension exercise then the rec fem will not contract optimally at the knee joint.
Am I right or did I misinterpret the whole thing ?
Sacrilege! I love it, time to go train my rectus....
I think squats are much better for your overall lower body. They help the glutes and lower back and you can exercise that muscle you are saying when you go below parallel.
Menno just explained why you can't exercise that muscle fully with squats. Overall squats definitely are a bang for your buck, but for quadriceps specifically the leg extension seems to be better, at least according to information in this video.
@@paavoilves5416 I dont like leg extensions. They just seem to work the muscle around the knee cap and thats about it. Ill stick to squats.
@@joevelte4252lean back as far as you can during leg extensions then see what you think
Unless you're a bodybuilder is there any need for isolations though?@@paavoilves5416
@@joevelte4252what muscle around the knee cap? It's impossible to work any other muscle then the quads in the leg extension
The little zoomers at my gym are obsessed with the quad extension. It's always taken. It's now actually out of order-broken 😠. I blame Sam Sulek. They all want to be just like him.
😂😂😂😂
"Study".
What about sissy squats?
Click bait bullshit not based in reality
Uh oh! Butthurt ego lifters incoming....
You dont really need a study to know what it's OBVIOUS, really?? 😂😆😆🙄🙄🙄🙄🤦🏻♂️
Thanks cosmos and gods I came across this.
Squats are stupid