Full ROM is dead? Stretch-mediated hypertrophy and lengthened partials
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- čas přidán 3. 11. 2023
- Two recent studies found that training with a partial range of motion is better for muscle hypertrophy than training with a full range of motion. Is training with a full range of motion still the way to go? I recently recorded a lecture for my PT course and I would like to give you a free excerpt of that where I explain exactly what the current deal is with the full range of motion training, stretch-mediated hypertrophy, and lengthened partials.
#lengtenedpartials #stretchmediatedhypertrophy #rangeofmotion #fullrom #mennohenselmans #personaltrainer #personaltrainers #personaltraining #personaltrainerlife #personaltraineronline #personaltraineronline - Věda a technologie
Thank you Dr. Israetel for introducing me to this channel. Menno, this information is priceless.
Hell yeah this is top tier scientific based content
Standard Menno
Menno, always bringing the awesome, accurate, scientific information! Thank you!
Commenting for the algorithm, but also to say that this is fantastic and I really hope that you make more videos like this! All the evidence and explanations in terms of biomechanics etc is really helpful to me in thinking about my own training.
I've always appreciated your content. I'm not sure how I found you, but I've been following you for about four to five years, and I'm not sure why you do not have more subscribers. You've helped this regular gal, who just likes science and to lift, tremendously.
The reason he doesnt have more subs, is that most people will search for "get jacked in 4 weeks", not the real science. I dont think you are a regular gal, btw (you are here).
Most people won't be ale to understand this content. It'll appeal to a smaller audience (right-end of the intelligence bell curve - which is by definition, smaller).
Top tier info as always Menno.
Oh, and I appreciate you expanding your platform to CZcams.
Thank you for REALLY great information!
I've been looking for highly detailed quality information like this. Well presented, short and concise, no joking around. You, sir, are great!
Man, the PR course is very good. Recomended.
good breakdown of the topic. Thank you!
Always super informative!
Love it! Thanks for doing what you do
Been thinking over this for a while. Happy to have stumbled onto this vid 👍
anecdotal evidence has told me the same thing
Great video. Thank you.
Really enjoyed. Subscribed!! Look forward to watching more of your videos
Thank you so much!
U fixed the sound! Thank u
Thank you menno
Daunt Trudell creator of Doggcrap training was on this 25 years ago.
I watched this because I heard Mike Israetel talk a lot about increased hypertrophy while focussing on the stretched part of the range of motion. It's not as 'badass', and you can't lift as heavy and you need more focus and control, but at the end of the day, we just wanna make them gains! You don't walk around on the street with a statistic sheet of your PR's, you walk around with your body itself :)
Hey mate, I just discovered your channel yesterday. I'm finding your lessons very interesting and informative, so I've just subscribed.
Keep up the great work!
Cheers
I'd really appreciate a breakdown of the resistance profiles of various shoulder exercises, they are the hardest for me to wrap my head around them.
that´s why ronnie and others like me from oldschool use the partials. I learn with my own experience. But thanks for the content. Great great!!! Subscribed
At the start, for a second I thought Alistair Overeem was speaking :) Almost the same Dutch English accent and intonation hehe. Either way, great content! Keep up the great work!
Interesting but I think we over complicate it. Just train hard close to failure in the 6-15 rep range use a form of double or dynamic double progression, eat in a small surplus/sleep 8 hours BOOM. That is how you make gains. All the details are just 1% of the puzzle, nail the basics, progress over time at proven movements, use whichever split you enjoy and you will be big in 3-5 years. That isa complicated as building muscle needs to be.
You're obviously not a serious, seasoned lifter...
If you're gonna workout you might as well maximise your session. Every repetition counts!
@@FroscoTraining If you talk to most serious lifters they do not even care about this. You will not have a small chest if you can incline dumbbell press the 100s for reps, same for benching 315lbs for reps, that is what it comes down to. You are far better off optimising sleep/protein synthesis than these minute details. FYI I have trained for 6 years consistently so I would say that is pretty seasoned tbh. The bigger picture is more important than details in the long run.
@@Rakyr I understand your point, but why notvdo both to optimise your sessions? It's not about the weight, it's about how you use it.
You should try this since you're experienced... concentrating on form, lower the weight, do 3 second negatives, pause at full stretch, then with intensity return to the extended position. Always get a full stretch before your next rep.
The great thing about this technique is its much safer, plus provides a higher stimulus for muscle growth. It's a lot harder though, so maybe not best for beginners since it could scare them off from working out again lol.
@@FroscoTraining That is beyond stretch mediated hypertrophy, you are just talking about using full range of motion/good form, but again what it comes down to is progressive overload. Get strong at the basic lifts, attack each set with a split you enjoy and you are covered. BTW I have never fallen for "optimal training". I just focus on intensity with good form while getting stupidly strong.
@@Rakyr I'm talking about stretch mediated hypertrophy. Full stretch.
Awesome👍
Active vs passive tension is an intriguing topic. I feel like arguments come up on YT fitness all the time about it.
It’s very hard to listen to you when you’re looking this damn good
Reminds me of Van Damme, lol. I'm jealous! 😂
Subscribed my good sir!
Very interesting analysis. I always thought these studies that compared different modalities should avoid maximal hypertrophy because at that point there's a cap and you can't tell what's going on anymore.
Here's what I mean:
Test 1. Preacher curls - 3 sets of 10 at RIR 2
Test 2. Barbell curls - 3 sets of 8 at RIR 2
If I do this test and see the same growth I can't tell which is better because I might have reached enough stimulus for my muscle's maximum capacity to grow after half the work, beyond which I can even see a decrease in hypertrophy if I train too much, so if Test 1 is inferior by 5% is it because it's a worse exercise or it's a better one and I just over did it?
Wouldn't it be better to compare, let's say, 1 set of each (i.e. some form of sub-optimal growth) to see which produces more growth per unit of work/fatigue/effort/etc.
Yes, the problem is compounded by where you are in the mesocycle and also by how advanced you are, I agree.
What's your take on this idea?
Another idea would be to test it on beginner subjects and not with a complete exaggerated Volume. Beginners show most muscle growth and with a moderate Volume you avoid this overtraining.
The only problem here would be in more complex exercises (Squats etc), that beginner subjects bring a lack of technique and thus some might grow faster and lower due to the stimulus variation with better or worse techniques. But this is random and statistically irrelevant if the study design is good.
Sissy squats trains the quads at a lengthened position.
No one trains sissy squats nowadays!
The one bodybuilder who did that, in the 1950-ies or so, had very nice quads.
Tom Platz loved sissy squats look at the legs he had
Reverse Nordic should be the go to exercise for lengthend partials for quads
🎬 VIDEO 💡 IDEA: Full body workout w/ typical exercises optimized for LPs («Lengthened Partials»).
LPs has great potential! But for me, the only really practical advice I can actually quite easily implement is leg-curls + OH tri ext. *But what abt all other exercises?* For most people, leg-curls & OH tri ext are neither the most typical nor important exercises, right? And even for me - a nerd who is actually interested in both anatomy, science, fitness - it’s challenging to actually apply the principles to my most typical and important exercsies (I mostly do calisthenics, w/ some weighted or banded versions, supplemented by the occasional dumbbell or machine here-n-there). That being the case, I’m sure many have the same challenges (and bigger). What is the ideal range of degrees? In which exercises is it easy to control the degrees and stay within the LP, and in which is it rather pointless, or at least very challenging? How would a LP bulgarian split look like? What about a pelican curl?
Therefore: a video that goes through typical exercises could be extremely useful. I’m thinking: pullups • dips • rows • pushups • arm curls-n-extensions • leg curls -n-extensions • leg raises • crunches…
Could even do a whole video series on this: machine based LPs (lengthened partials) • bodyweight LPs • resistance band LPs • ring LPs • back LPs • etc. 😉 None has done it yet, and the YT market is ripe for that.
If u’d make even one of these, I - and I’m sure: many other ppl too - would be grateful. 🙏 If you’d make one of these, which one would you be most interested in, personally/professionally?
Great
I'm curious if the increase muscle growth is due to the new stimulus on the passive muscles and would just plateau quickly over time
I figure do a myo rep set for volume followed by lengthened partials to failure is an efficient way of getting a good stimulus
Great content as always! I have a question.
What about doing a few lengthened partials at the end of a set, if the lengthened part of the exercise is easier? If i do for example full rom leg curls with 1 RTF and add then lengthened partials in the same set.
You could, but the stimulus-to-fatigue ratio of training post-failure is generally bad.
@@menno.henselmansdiminishing marginal returns, natch.
Im subscribed alright
very interesting...
I love this nerdy content.
Yeah, not sure how valid any one study can be considering the chance of bad data, biased researchers, the desire to be published, ect. I, anecdotally, think many lifters leave off the bottom of many lift, while almost all go to top (with the possible exception of pull-ups to chest). So forcing people to squat or dumbbell press to the bottom for reps or may produce a somewhat larger novel stimulus than full ROM and far larger than upper partials in the short term. However, if done consistently over the course of years this may cease to be novel and not produce any better results.
Interesting. Thanks.
I have a few questions.
Is a dumbbell bench press for example a lengthened partial? Because your not reaching the end position of the pecs?
And is it helpful to adjust cable exercises so that the moment arm is the longest near or at the most stretched position? (for example lateral raises with a cable).
Am I missing gains if I only pull halfway up on rowing exercises so that I can spend more time in the lengthened position because I am not weakened by the contracted position so much?
It's only a lengthened partial if you're not doing the full range of motion: that is, you're doing only, say, the bottom half of the movement.
I would say adjust exercises so that the moment arm is greatest at long muscle lengths. but also would say that you shouldn't go so overboard that you sacrifice active tension for passive insufficiency. that is my interpretation at least!
My bad the title looked as if you were telling but your actually telling a question! I DONT UNDERSTAND TELLING QUESTIONS
I am trying ( personally ) a routine of just lengthened parials with an extreme stretch at the end of each of the 2 sets. Using 8 reps as a goal and will increase the weights each time.
Obviously when the load is distributed across a hinge that the force vector is stronger perpendicular to the axis.
I definitely agree that the lengthened part of “a repetition” is where the most growth potential is.
However, I also believe that the most gains will be found it the area you are weakest in or train the least.
Because I’m a touch autistic, I use the analogy of digging for dinosaur fossils.
Imagine you are looking for tyrannosaurus fossils in Montana. You have 3 dig sites, a, b and c.
A is like the lengthened position. The most fossils are found there.
However, if you only dig there, you will eventually get diminishing returns.
It makes more sense to send more dig teams to site a but also have teams searching in sites b and c.
Yeah, absolutely! There's a reason you get stuck in a certain part of the lift and not another. Sure, you can argue a muscle has to overcome most resistance if fully lenghtened. BUT you can say the same about the most mechanically disadvantaged position. Long story short, just do full ROM.
Yes but If you have slaves stacked in a ship travelling from Europe to the Americas , do you feed the stronger slaves so they row harder and better or feed the weaker ones so they maybe perform better ? Or all altogether?
@@KyriakoskarystinosFirstly, I hope you are trolling 🤣🤣.
Because:
A) the analogy does not have any validity. Maybe if you changed it to “would you give extra food to the rowers who are well fed or the ones who are hungry and struggling”, then you could argue feeding the ones who are hungrier to bring total rowing speed up.
B) The analogy is highly inappropriate 🤣🤣
@@SCW_Fitness haha yes I was trolling but in my opinion both analogies can't really be applied to muscle gain.
@@Kyriakoskarystinos How come? Train your strongest or weakest lifts, and can you even get away with it...
How would you do lengthen partials with hip thrust, because isn't the contracting part of hip thrust the part that causes growth??
Random question Menno, what product do you use on your hair
I do full body compound movement using stretch under tension for about 20-10 seconds and blew up my muscles especially legs while doing barbell squats
The more I learn about efficient muscle building, the more I start to think that you are far better off just doing what you're already doing and like the most as close to failure as possible.
These new scientific findings kinda only matter if you're trying to squeeze out a fraction of a percent for competition. If I restrict range of motion to 80%, I can get a ton of volume and grow that way. If I put on a BFR band and use lightweights, I can get a super sick pump and grow that way. If I lift my 6 rep max, I can grow through intensity. It almost doesn't matter what mechanism of action I choose.
Yeah, basically go to failure or very near it and do it often enough. Basically tell your body that given muscle is insufficient for the task needed.. and it'll grow, bit by bit over time.
Has there been any studies on a paradigm which includes performing sets to failure with a 1-2 eccentric but then once failure is reached, hold the weight in the lengthened position in a deep stretch for a prolonged period?
I've been doing that method for a while and here's Ryan Humiston implementing them recently.. czcams.com/video/pRw3MMH1Nn0/video.htmlsi=FzSPzioo3tw2d2xz
Wouldn't Bayesian curls be a good SMH exercise VS preacher/incline bench/barbell curls? So rather than eliminate an exericise in favour of a SMH one perhaps its optimal to get the best of both worlds? For example add seated leg curls but keep doing the lying leg curls too?
Does this apply to in the bedroom setting
Not in November 💀
@@mrskellybones69420oh dam I forgot 😮
Yes hip thrusts with shortened partials and lots of disappointment
@@jeffbunnell9961wym 2 inches is fullrom
Yep, shorten thruster keeps more time under tension 😂 dont thrust all the way otherwise you will hyper extend your back 😂
Another thing though is that lengthened partials produce a MASSIVE pump. Feels amazing.
menno da man!
To become stronger you must train in the POWER ZONE first then you can work on the upper and lower lengths to increase the power zone to those areas, Work in your power zone until you can throw yourself in the air!!
So what's the conclusion?
Ik ook! Ik ook!
is it possible to just stimulate titin directly?
I did partial length for awhile. The muscle does feel alot more sore but I noticed that when I went back to full range of motion, once I got past the partial it was incredibly more difficult. It makes you weak. I found that doing full range first and then using partials after I cant get another full range rep in worked alot better than just doing partials.
People forget full ROM gives mobility too, atleast for me. Finishing with partials just sounds smart to me
It did not make you weak. When you did partial roms, it did not make you strong at Full rom. It just increased strength on partial rom.
Seems silly to do just one or the other. Like, one can continue training exactly as before, but just add lengthened partials near the end of the set or after hitting failure. Why on earth would one *only* do partials?
@@psycholars1not something I’d do but here’s a rational.
1. You have finite resources (energy, neural drive, recovery, etc).
2. Muscle growth is the only training adaptation you value.
So, you direct your resources towards the method that promises the most growth.
@@pilsung26 Hmm, you make some good points. Would certainly be interesting to see a study where the participants would train exclusively lengthened partials on left side and traditional full ROM on right side and compare before and after in terms of both strength and size.
That nothing new. But how do use this info in practise?!
Some muscles are very hard or impossible to isolate and strech under high loads. For example the glutes and to some extent the lats and shoulders.
👍👍👍
so partial reps can induce more local/isolated stress to any given muscle/group, yet actually enlengthening by doing full rom is going to increase your strenght by activating additional concentric and eccentric work during contraction and stretch, therefore improve (given the same load) the quality of your technique, will also help increase the intensity and thus will help increase the volume, also when either increasing the load/reps or slowing down the reps producing more metabolites and increasing muscle damage without provoking injury... so actually full rom is better for hypertrophy and strenght as it engages muscles in more holistic way, even during isolated exercise, which partial reps cannot do. How is that the partials are better then?
It’s kind of a moot thing.
So the ROM that people tend to miss is the elongation part where all the stretch and damage happens.
“Lengthened partials” are basically the bottom half of the movement… which the bottom 1/4 to 1/2 of the movement most people miss. So your reps you’re doing to simplify is doing ONLY the part people miss and not going all the way to lockout.
IMO maybe one set of them… in the middle is the best option. You’ll be “warmed up” with your first set or two… be able to get the best SFR with a “lengthen partial” set because you don’t waste energy on the top half which has the least damage/growth… then finish up with another full ROM set to keep your movement pattern healthy.
If people just do lengthen partials I feel like they’re going to run into problems with movement pattern and functionality.
What is the best stretch mediated exercise for pecs?
And what is the best for shoulders?
Dumb
If you are new to training is partial reps better even tho it increases muscle damage
I guess this validates the results of the infamous bird study where they hung weights from the wings of birds and observed 300% increase in muscles or something along those lines. Interesting though impractical.
Hello. This is great OLD INFORMATION. Why do I say old? Because there is nothing new in the studies. Athletes and bodybuilders have been doing these types of exercises and much more for decades. Now, because a study published this, it makes it a novel way to work out? WHERE DO YOU THINK THE STUDIES GOT THE IDEAS FROM?
You explained everything perfectly. I love your channel, but in reality, this is very old news!!!!
To finish ----everyone who has any sense MUST incorporate partial sets in all their workouts. BUT ABSOLUTELY NOT ALL YOUR SETS OR WORKOUTS SHOULD BE DONE AS PARTIAL SETS.
This is exactly why most people over 50 move like old men, with no agility or speed. Partial range of motion is NOT BETTER AT ALL- You need to do it all!!!!!
i listen to paul carter and menno both good infos but i think menno is more approachable in terms of social media interactions
This is not really that controversial of a theory, you see some of the biggest Bodybuilders of all time doing mainly partial reps.
Menno, your beard looks more of a red colour now. Did you colour it brown before?
Ha, no, there's natural red in it, but it only comes out in certain light.
That would explain why martial artists have a lot of lean mass without weight training!
Thats why gymnasts have such huge biceps, lot of straight arm exercises.
could you cite these 2 studies that you are reffering to?
They're in the slides.
@@menno.henselmansrecent two studies? Ok. I will find 2022 and 2023
How can the muscle be 160% lengthened?
So I'm thinking I should lay flat on the bench, arms hanging down, to do curls
All of this always leads back to one concept, time under tension. The longer you put tension on a muscle the more likely it will grow to accommodate the weight.
9:15 you meant LONG range partials
Team Full ROM on life support 😂
Somebody her who tried lenghtend partials with success?
really work great for exercises like: lat pulldown, db presses, cable laterals, leg extensions. really depends which exercises lend themselves to it the most imo.
@@chriselhayek7840 have you gained more muscle from IT then from regular Training?
I do it with leg extensions after doing squats. I can hardly walk the following day, in fact I reduced the number of sets otherwise I can’t go to work
@ It looks like it's impacting your SFR negatively if it forces you to reduce your number of sets. Less sets means less stretched stimulus, if you can do more sets doing regular ROM you are actually putting your muscles in a stretched position more often. Unless you're doing more reps per set when you're doing your lengthened partials that is.
@@kathleendelcourt8136 yeah I’m doing more reps per set. I feel that to get the same pain the next day with full ROM I need to do 30% more sets.
Med school vibes
This is the stuff people in prison do and they get pretty fuckin big, and I doubt they can get juice...
Oh you better believe they get juice. Kali Muscle got big in prison.
Remember that time Menno said TRT is full natty😂
This was good but why not also follow up with a four minute synopsis as well for the busy people..? The video here was too long for me.
Madness. You're entirely ignoring mechanical strength of a muscle, which is far weaker in the stretched position. It's like only using an elastic band at the limit of it's mechanical tension and then getting upset when it suddenly snaps when one jolt too many exceed the passive tension capability and results in damage (just like in muscles). Training at full stretch is infinitely more dangerous and is a terrible terrible idea. Example: pec tears occur at full stretch in bb bench press. Quad tears occur at the bottom of hack squats. The list is endless. This kind of 'research' is so short-sighted, and really indicates where these people's understanding of resistance training is.
I gave your response a like because you're concerned about others and warning them of possible injuries. Of course it should be noted that whenever you try something new in weight training, one should always lighten the weight AND go slow. I don't care what you change in an exercise, whether it's the angle, grip, etc. My former trainer Dante was always cautioning us to use great form but also stated that using the biggest weights could / would come with risks! At the time I believe he was speaking of Ronnie Coleman. The most heavily muscled Mr Olympia. Simply put, proceed with caution, use fantastic form and lightest weights and proceed slowly. Heavy is relevant. Example with most people's form, an exercise is performed quite fast. Try using less weight and slow the reps down to a crawl and realize that the weight got harder. Best of luck!
But is not the lenghtened partial included in full ROM!? Looks soyence strikes again, as if such minmaxing had any value for anyone beside the top competitors... And good luck to get a sample of actual competitors to take part in a study, no one will sacrifice progress for soyence, unless paid accordingly.
I think the idea is that by doing lengthened partials you can do more reps because each rep is shorter (hence the name "partial") and by doing more reps you're hitting that lengthened/stretched position more often than with a full ROM. So I guess it comes down to how much reps you can do using each approach, if lengthened partials mean more reps for the same fatigue as full ROM then they're probably the way to go.
@@kathleendelcourt8136 But that's frankly junk volume. There's no point in doing more reps for the sake of doing more reps to begin with. Might as well drop the load if all you want is more reps...
@@demoncore5342 It's only junk volume if you generate more fatigue than stimulus.
There's no use for this type of lifting. When you lift full range of motion and use a range of compound lifts your muscles will grow in a more balanced fashion. Doing partials to me comes with the danger of strengthening and growing the muscle more at certain joint angles which might cause issues. Labourers do lots of partials and they frequently develop imbalances. Also, for a natural lifter you will only be able to hold a certain amount of lean mass anyways, maybe partials help you get there a little faster but you'd still get there without partials.
Yeah no, take your "no use" and take a hike my friend!
@@ProphetFear good argument you dork!
@@SamuelTitus-cz3fu The argument is all the studies showing greater growth from lengthened partials, particularly on the distal side.
Talk tooooooooo much
Thats the point dude 😅
Full rom is more functional
Serious question
Could the penis grow under stretch tension like every muscle.
Not my expertise, but I highly doubt it. I don't think muscle is the primary length determinant and even if it was, muscle fascicle length doesn't change the origin and insertion points, just the 'slack' between them.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Only one way to find out brah
@RenaissancePeriodization