Learning to Trad Climb: Part 6 - How to lead multipitch
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- The final episode following DMM Graphic Designer Clare as she learns the Tools of the Trad with AMI instructor Alice Kerr.
In Part 6 of this series, Clare uses the skills she has learned to climb her first multipitch trad climb. Instructor Alice takes Clare through block leading, alternate leading and stance management on multipitch belays.
After her climb, Clare talks about her climbing goals including climbing A Dream of White Horses, a famous climb in Gogarth, Anglesey. You can watch a film about A Dream of White Horses here: • A Dream of White Horses
Intro: 0:00
Belay stance management: 1:37
Block leading: 3:08
Clare leads here first multipitch: 10:53
Building a belay anchor and stance management: 12:38
Alternate leading: 18:03 - Jak na to + styl
Hi All, Alice here. There have been a few questions on this video, as well as a few of the earlier ones, why we are not using 'guide mode' and are instead belaying on our harnesses. Firstly, I want to stress that both methods are safe when done correctly. Often in the UK, we learn to belay on our harness first, as there is less knowledge needed to lower someone and it is a smoother progression from sport/indoor climbing. 'Guide mode' is a very useful way to belay when trad climbing, and we do regularly use it in the UK, but it requires a greater amount of knowledge in order to safely lower someone, and it is much easier to set up wrong (it's fairly common for people to clip the wrong part of the belay plate to the anchor, which is extremely dangerous). So we often first teach people to effectively belay on their harness, before then teaching how to use the belay plate in guide mode. Hopefully that clears things up. If you are still unsure, pop a reply to this comment and I will try to help. Thanks!
Thanks for clarifying! As a bolt-spoiled European I do have to say that I find it significantly harder to setup a bomber trad-anchor than to use guide mode correctly, though ;)
The video is nice and give a good feeling about multipitch climbing, but I see at least three important points which are not very safe in my opinion:.
1 - In my point of view, if you don't use the guide mode you should pass the rope through a quick-draw higher than your belay loop in order to mimic a top-rope belaying.
2- I think also it would be much safer, to put a first nut or a friend just after the belay station before removing the cloth nodes and starting to lead again (it would avoid a factor two on the station if the leader fall).
3 - Finally my last comment is on the two cloths. It is good to have always a double protection, but one has to be tight to avoid chocs on the station, and the second should be slack. The reason for keeping the second rope slack is to prevent rope cutting in case of rock falling.
I did several times all this mistakes, and I survived ;) I just wanted to signal it before less experimented people copy these and add more mistakes. As you said it appears more difficult but it is also the charm of multipiches.
@@nicolasantunes7907 Not sure I agree with your first point; if the second falls and that fall exerts (say) 3kn of force, then to hold it the belayer will exert 3kn of force on the other side of the quickdraw. Thus the quickdraw/gear experiences 6kn of force. Without it the belayer just holds the fall and is in line between the falling climber and the anchor, which will experience only the 3kn of force of the fall, and possibly less with the belayer being in the system. Of course it's not always so simple but in most situations I'll belay directly rather than redirect.
@@nicolasantunes7907 I was thinking the same regarding your second point. Imagine leader falling of first few meters of the pitch, past the belayer and twisting the whole belay device downwards, opening it and making it almost impossible for the belayer to catch and hold it. Definitely some directional quickdraw above the anchor is mandatory.
Where was that first multipitch it looked great fun
Love the tip to drop some rope before putting the second on belay: ‘no one ever starts climbing on a slack rope’. Great way to use psychology to your advantage!
Love this series, great how you've developed all the building blocks and sprinkled in tips and tricks along the way. Will certainly be recommending watching these for new trad leaders
I've just watched the 6 parts. Two things to say, thank you for all the good tips and congratulations for the great content.! I totally admire dmm in many levels. Salute from Portugal .
Very impressive Clare! Thank you Clare, Alice, and DMM for making this video series. I learned a great deal that I was previously unsure of thus far in my journey, as well as reminders of the parts that I do know well already. Of course I will be going with a seasoned climber for my first trad climb, but this playlist was a perfect introduction to the "big picture" for trad climbing. You covered the introduction to all the parts of the sport and did so in.a well rounded, progressive and concise set of digestible parts. I feel more comfortable with the process after watching, although I am well aware that I say that while standing on solid ground. Thanks again Clare and Alice!
Superb. Really enjoyed this.
Thank you for this series, I'm slowly learning to trad climb and watching it has been a helpful skill refresher
Love these series! Congratulations to Clare
Excellent video series! I do have a question regarding the gear anchor. The belayer may be pulled up above the anchor if the leader takes a big fall. Shouldn't the lower piece be multidirectional to prevent this scenario?
Fantastic series.
These series are great, top content and mega informative 👏👏👏
Amazing series!
Next video suggestion: taking falls on placed gear and not soiling yourself.
Really useful series, thank you!
Very good videos! Interesting to see a different way to belay from above. Would love to know the benefits of comparing the belay device placed at the anchor in guide mode.
Best to have an opposing anchor for upward pull!
hi, thanks for the video, which crag and routes are you climbing on here please? thanks vey much.
Nice video showing double rope technique! I am curious about that first nut placement. The first piece can be pulled down as well as to the side and even up. I wonder if a second piece or a cam would be a better choice?
Great video. The not rushed explanation is really helpful. I have a question about using the ascender / Jumar with a GriGri.
I’m experimenting with my ascender where I use a second small one with a leg loop, a crevasse rescue method. It looks like this might be a nice two-to-one but I couldn’t see it properly. Have you also found a method to lower yourself?
Super curious! Thanks so much!
Clip a rope grab to the weighted line, fix a pulley to that, thread the tail throught the pulley and you have a 3:1 that you can just haul yourself up with, with a foot ascender it becomes a total breeze
When the second is ascending, why you dont put de tube into the anchor?
The anchor point (right or left pending direction of climb) is the leader's first placement of protection!!!
Great videos. What routes are being climbed? Really struggling to pick them out
Looked like the first route was Marble Slab?
Sounds like the two of you are having a tea party up there. Cool vid
Very well done instructional video. The long dread locks look like they could get easily caught in things. Those should probably be bundled up for safety. Not hard to find bad outcomes for long hair and climbing in a google search.
In this as well as the first placing pro video, you mention to get a first piece in soon. I can see this for pitches starting up on the wall, but for the first pitch off the ground(or above a big ledge), what is the advantage?
Here are the cons I see for placing your first piece soon above the ground:
1: only protects a move or two.
2: limits movement of the belayer(to keep a good view, avoid rockfall, etc)
3: creates more outward pull on the first piece, increasing the chances of it blowing out
So those are some cons, what are the pros I am missing?
I agree with the low placement, though I usually jam a cam, rather than using a nut.
I would imagine they are doing this to prevent your belayer from being lifted too high off the ground in the event of a fall, also it keeps the rope nice and close to the rock face for the rest of the clips, so the load is in a generally upwards direction. It will also introduce some friction in the rope in the event of a fall and assist with braking. This is essentially what the Edelrid Ohm does - except that the Ohm uses a v-shaped profile to introduce even more friction than a carabiner can alone.
When climbing on trad it is possible to have an "upwards zipper" event, whereby the belayer may be some distance away, the rope goes tight (the climber falls) and, due to the angle of the belayer, the first placement is pulled outwards and upwards, it then pings out, and the rest of them follow in an upwards direction, quite rapidly, possibly all the way up to the device that the climber has last clipped in to. It's quite dangerous.
For this reason I use a cam in a good placement (cams work well in an upwards direction also) or, at the very least, I test my nut placement in all directions, including upwards. it it sticks, it can be used. I find "professional tuition" videos don't demonstrate nut checking very well, people tend to pull downwards only and not very strongly - but a nut may be loaded in any direction when a climber falls. Aggressively pulling on a nut might in all directions sets it very well - sometimes too well, they can be difficult to remove.
On balance, a nut placement that is difficult to remove is far preferable, in my book. When I really need it to work, I don't want to have any doubts over whether it will hold.
The other idea I will put forwards is this: if your partner is a lot heavier than you, you could place your initial cam below your waist height. Thus, if the rope is loaded, you will be pulled downwards, not upwards, and can resist the pull with your big leg muscles and you will not be pulled off the floor, you will be stable.
Finding your belay plate??
Why Alice didn't belay from central point, but from her harness?
Please refer to both Brent Peter's "Clove Hitch for Anchors" videos!!!
yay
Shouldn't the first piece of gear be multidirectional to prevent a zipper when a nut placement is pulled upwards?
The first piece should hold a fall in a direction that subtends (splits the difference) between the line of the belayer to first piece and the line from second piece to first piece. With a low belayer, this is usually straight out from the wall (maybe a little bit upwards as well). A nut is fine as long as it will hold an outward pull. I could tell but the peices place looked slotted behind a crack so they would hold down and out pull (optimised to split the difference, half down, half out, which is correct for a leader fall). [the above assumes a straight up route to simplify things. Protection also needs to withstand some sideways pull as well]
It is mentioned briefly in one of the videos that the belayer should move close to the wall and in a good position as soon as the lead climber took off and there is space, to prevent loading the protection in a bad direction.
Any reason here to not use guide mode? Maybe the gear isn’t solid so you are protecting it or is it for British traditions?
I also do not understand this. It seem stupid. What will they do if other climber falls ? or if they have to make rescue with partner hanging on the rope and not responding ?
@@DanielKapusta Totally agree with both of you, guide mode is safer, reduces the issues with reflaking the rope meaning the change over is safer and quicker. The lack of the first piece when the leader takes off on the second pitch was a risk.
In typical British climbs, the gear isn’t as solid as on many US climbs so having the climber in the system reduces the load on the gear quite a bit. Swapping to leading on a guide plate adds additional complications in lowering a climber as well, which is the safest way of self rescue. Typically, British beginners learn to use a guide plate later.
@@largeformatlandscape What do you mean the gear isn't as solid? What's the point of building a belay when you can't trust it with a little top-rope-tumble?
@@largeformatlandscape This wasn't a chossy pile of shit, and they sure didn't seem too bothered risking a factor 2 fall onto the belay. So the belay can definitely handle a follower taking a 10cm "fall" into the rope, and the question still stands: Why not just use guide mode?
If your answer is: "That's how we've always done it, and we're just so hard-core(unlike the Americans)" then that's fine, but I'm failing to see the safety benefit of belaying your follower from the body.
How much time goes to rigging vs actual climbing. 🤭
i had the same reaction as @robert and @andrew, maybe i'm not used to the british way of doing belay in a multi pitch route, in case of a fall in a less "easy" route, the belayer might be pulled down and will have a hard time to stay stable while the other climber get back on the route.
plus some protections (nut and cams) are pulled perpendicular to the working axis, i'm not sure how it will hold in case of a fall, but i don't want' to be an ass as i have not that much experience in trad climbing.
You do have to think about the direction of load so being pulled around isn’t a big issue but belaying off the rope has advantages. Brits tend to learn guide plate (and it’s disadvantages) later. Alice has answered above too!
@@largeformatlandscape well if it works for them 😁
@@sfxElrick part of the joy of climbing is the freedom of choice!
8:08 what is a “faff “??? Or faffing??
It means messing around with things, fiddling, unnecessary extra movements or actions. To not faff about is to just get the job done efficiantly and strait to the point.
pissing about
NEVER take your brake hand off the rope!!!
One big thing less efficient about swapping leads with trad is that you also have to give the new leader all of the gear because they probably just collected half a dozen pieces following. If you have a route that takes a lot of gear passing off the entire rack can be a lot of gear to swap, unless each person is carrying a full rack but then that is a lot to haul to the crag. Sport climbing multi pitch is just a matter of handing off a few draws.
the very British thing of belaying off the rope loop....
The reasoning of belaying a leader with your device connected to your rope tie in loops to give more dynamic properties to the system is kind of nonsense, as that loop is so small compared to the amount of rope out during a leader fall. Also, technically the figure 8 should not be ring-loaded as it is prone to capsizing, especially if the load is directly into the knot as it would be during a leader fall if that's where you clipped your belay device. That said, a well-dressed figure 8 probably won't capsize enough to be a safety concern, and it can be more convenient to belay off your tie-in loop than your belay loop at a hanging belay, especially if using double ropes, as your belay loop is shorter.
super helpful thanks. id never seen that before
CLOVE HITCH for Clare at belay!
No PAS ??
what for?
Whats that?