Give Me 4K or Nothing
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- čas přidán 7. 03. 2023
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Me with my 2080TI after hearing 40 and 30 series GPU's: "What am I chopped liver?"
Kinda did 20 series buyers dirty a bunch of times now
Same feeling! me 2080ti also
I read somewhere that it should becoming to 20 series later
1080 gang
I feel you. 🙁
While I'm not a fan of Nvidia's consumer practices, I can't argue that the software they have is fantastic.
if they put 20% of what they use for this in the Linux driver i wouldnt complain aswell
@@GabrielM01 As someone who loves Linux, I recognize Linux is probably like 0.1% of their users and 10%+ of their bug reports.
@@4.0.4 still their users
@@4.0.4 its only 10%+ of their bug reports because their software for linux is shit, if it was good the porcentage would be lower, chicken and egg problem invalid argument
@@GabrielM01 But you have to strategize your resources. And they clearly dont care if theres no consumer money there (and Im sure they have their statistics)
I bet linux driver is just side task for some employee.
300 watts of power demand, when all your doing is watching a youtube video, is honestly hilarious lmao it very well describes the current state of PC hardware
Watching _a slightly more enhanced playback_ of a CZcams video!
There's no need to save on power consumption in this day and age anyway, right?
Power? Noooooo. We have so much power, we’re just giving it away!
Yeah. Honestly I was about to start looking at a used 30 series and then Linus dropped that bomb.
It's really cool but seriously this trend of throw heat and power to the wall needs to stop. You shouldn't need to mount any GPU on top of your case and power it with a separate PSU like Luke is doing with his 7900 XTX. That's disgusting from a tech perspective but from a jank perspective I love it.
@@StudioBrock1337 I think Luke’s specific problem was it didn’t fit in his case and he didn’t have the right cord for the psu he had. And needing more/different cables for an upgrade and you don’t remember where your extra modular cables went is always a struggle. Questionable if it had fit if there was enough air in there to get it remotely cool.
@@billy101456 yes. Needing a PSU what wouldn't fit in the first place is exactly the problem.
I've moved my plex watching from the Plex Windows desktop app to the web app to take advantage of the NVidia 4k upscaling. It works SOOO well for TV shows that were only aired in 1080p!
How about anything under 1080p like say pre HD times (count old VCR rips from the 80s)?
@@garystinten9339 There's definitely still a noticeable quality difference obviously, but it does do a pretty decent job of smoothing things out a bit and cleaning it up. Better with it on then off IMO.
I’ve enjoyed VSR quite a bit in the past week or so. Of course there are some videos that don’t work well with it… but I agree with Linus that a good source being upscaled tends to look better than CZcams’s native 4K. Nowwwww a garbage source being upscaled isn’t going to fundamentally change it. But I’m sure it’ll improve as time goes on :)
Did he say 300w to watch a damn upscaled video? My jaw fell open and there’s no way in hell I’m enabling that.
I find VSR works great for animated content like Cartoons and Anime.
Cleans up aliasing on the line art from lower resolution uploads and sharpens up the text for Subtitles in Anime nicely.
Time to get a crunchyroll subscription.
@@danielcobia7818 why the hell would I a subscription for anime
@@danielcobia7818 still a bad decision for me,with how they play with creators and butchering content with worse sub than machine translator
@@imbadatgames568 To pay the creators for it? Either that or order the DVD's. I was partially being facetious.
@@josephbryanasuncion4904 I hadn't heard about that. Any service you think doesn't do that?
In my opinion, the future of video codec lies in AI upscaling combined with extra data. You would encode your stream at 1080p, and then the AI would handle 90% of the upscaling, with the remaining 10% being perfected by providing hints to the AI. It's worth noting that the size of these hints could vary depending on the AI's performance. Looking even further ahead, I believe we may see an encoder AI and decoder AI that work so well together that they can generate just enough bytes for optimal video reproduction.
Linus' idea sounds like replay-files in games. they only save the information about what happened and the video is generated in-engine where you can move the camera around freely so no graphical information is saved in the replay at all. for podcasts that are always in front of the same background that would work, the viewer just has to download the information about the set and the people once and can use it every episode. wouldn't work for any other kind of video though and it would make it harder when, for example in wan-show, someone shares their screen with the stream
I still don't understand how you guys do a whole 2+ hour stream and still do everything else. I respect the work ethic
A team of writers, editors, camera operators, media operators, etc. they just get there, sit on the chair and all their subjects and talking points are already written and reviewed.
@@Sidowse eh they’re both talking on topics they’re interested in personally as well as professionally. And there are many weekly podcasts that are multiple hours long while still being engaging or funny or non-repetitive
@@Sidowse literally any of the most popular CZcams podcasts, they’re all usually between 1-3 hours long.
Yes people can talk about things they like or are interested in for a long time consistently. This may be surprising for you.
@@Sidowse
Trash Taste
Ear Biscuits
H3 podcast
The weekly planet
Sorry that you seem incapable of searching CZcams or using google. 4 at least weekly podcasts that are 1-3 hours long and have people that also busy themselves with other time consuming endeavours while being able to talk for a few hours each week on subjects they have interest in.
And I don’t see why it being live is any more impressive as edited podcasts usually have more time cut from then meaning they’re actually longer than you experience. Live podcasts also have live chats to use as a conversational crutch.
@@Sidowse god you’re a dumbass
What's actually going to happen is that new video codecs are going to be created (experimental codecs are already being worked on) that have AI reconstruction built in on the codec level, and the trained neural net is part of the spec - that way everyone has the same decoder and gets the same experience. But the bitrate requirements are an order of magnitude lower.
No need to add metadata to modify an H.264 video, when it's far more efficient to _replace_ H.264 with something completely designed for AI from the ground up.
4k tv have gotten pretty cheap over the past few years but 4k monitors priced refuse to budge.
The tvs are subsidized by ads
Monitors have different requirements. TVs are subsidized by bloatware, don't need as good latency, typically have lower refresh rates, and often don't need to be as color accurate.
So you can get a crap 4k monitor for somewhat cheap now, but a good 4k monitor will probably be more expensive than a good 4k TV.
Also, monitors probably don't benefit from as much economies of scale dude to there being far more possible ranges of form factors and sizes. TVs these days don't have curves, for example. And static elements on a TV don't really exist for the most part, so there's less chance of burn in.
I've seen a 27 inch 4K monitor selling for about 200 bucks but it's only 60 Hz. I managed to snag a 4K 144Hz monitor for about 500 bucks during a sale.
The optimization topic reminds me a lot of SVG. No image format scales as well as the format that is literally just the math to redraw the image at any resolution. Similarly, I could see a new video format that is designed to draw the video frame by frame rather than a fixed stream of pre-rendered images
I just want Nvidia to release a new shield with updated 4K upscaling
I'm playing around with it right now. It looks surpassingly good for upscaling lower res video, but once you go past the 1080 resolution, you can see a hint of the similar DLSS smudginess depending on what's on screen.
7:00 What you're talking about is called an auto-encoder. A lossy machine learning compression algorithm that's basically a big neural network with a bottle neck in the middle. You split the model at the bottle neck - the first half becomes the encoder, and the second half is the decoder.
It has an advantage over regular compression because it's able to leverage the predictability of the content it's compressing.
This and missing HDR support will probably drive me from firefox to chrome *grumpy*
For those who aren't aware RTX VSR is currently built to run with the 30 series' sparse matrix improvements, this is why it requires work it'll run on 20 series.
They are explaining how video compression already works. They already encode to move objects and patterns etc.
Nice! Ive had this idea for a while when it comes to scifi holograms / VR Presence --- send a super low quality transmission over and let the other end artificially upscale it and fill in missing details. In most use cases, you don't need the actual details, but the absence of details can be jarring
The ideas about encoding repeating patterns and moving objects are pretty similar to how compression already works. But I'm sure AI will make it a lot more efficient.
Reminds me of the days of midi sound cards where music would sound different depending on what card you had
Video patterns being upscaled differently like you can play a midi file with different sound fonts is a hilarious idea.
Watching this with 1080p to 4k upscaling with RTX super resolution. It looks so amazing. Only issues is the laptop 3080 I have is utilizing at 30% gpu usage. Makes the laptop noisy.
why actually watch the WAN show? also.. more importantly, you should definitely be able to fix the fan curve on that 3080.... 30% usage shouldnt be loud, but idk the cooling solution i guess
Consider reapplying the thermal paste, the noise should go down dramatically or you'll get more FPS depending on how the fan curve is configured
@@asbestosfibers1325 just to test it out. Don’t tell me that’s pointless.
@@William-Morey-Baker just testing it honestly. No other reason. I’ll mess with the fan curves. Thanks.
@@houssamalucad753 it didn’t even hit 70c.. i doubt thermal paste reapplication is gonna help. Just gotta change the fan curves.
I absolutely love my 1440P w HDR. It's going to be a while before I have a real need to upgrade to 4k
They dropped upscaling for ages. It used to be something with that nvidia dvd/video player back in the day.
I would love we talk more about the good old MPV player. It's basically the same as VSR, people create algorithm, sometime neural nets, and play/upscale/correct videos with it. It is life changing.
Problems are you cannot open DRM content (twitch and youtube, live or not, work though) and there is no good integration in the browser.
Better is, you can choose you algorithm depending on you hardware and what you are watching.
This compression thing is a really cool idea for some theatre kid programming student to do as some thesis for a research project. I really want to see this go somewhere in the next 5 years.
Works pretty well on older 360p/480p VHS type video that's been uploaded to YT, not perfect but still does a pretty decent job at increasing the quality and removing artifacts.
You would just need to do some of the processing server side statically. Then send that preprocessed data to the user who would do some more processing (or none, but turn that data into an upscaled format). Maybe they've tried it and the bandwidth use is too high sending pre-processed data? Still pretty incredible.,
There is already a video chat codec that transmits a still image and motion data of the other person and reconstructs video at the destination.
my eyes when luke's hand thru mic's hand stand after he lift it up above to be seen become 3d something out of the adobe cut without final filter is already something and I'm testing this new super resolution
The current high tech encodings for video are almost "mocap" already (they move sections of the video as groups of pixels). But yeah, an AI could take that idea even further.
For example the "fuzzy snow" example is good. It'd need the encoder to know how to remove the "snow/confetti" and then tell the AI "Just draw snow/confetti back in please". :P
Imagine how this could affect game streaming. As little computation locally as possible regarding what happens in the game, but then heavy computation regarding rendering the streamed image with supporting meta data to be interpreted by the target device...
"Floatplane would be DRM protected too... well, don't worry about that"
put a pin in that Lafr
I tried it and I thought it looked horrible, especially at level 4. That typical AI enhanced water colour effect was all over it, especially on close ups of faces. Weirdly I didn't have that problem with the Shield's upscaling.
Is it possible to make a video comparing the Shield upscaling to the new one? Like can you capture the video feed from a Shield directly?
Is it possible to make a video comparing the Shield upscaling to the new one? Like can you capture the video feed from a Shield directly?
I use it, works on everything from anime to live-streams of video games, I wish there was a quick way to toggle it though btcause when the gpu becomes busy with a game or otherwise it bogs down
8:37 yeah that's the main issue with streaming video games and the MAIN reason to turn all the way down or off if u can the particles effects in games as no matter if u have a 4090 it will still tank your streaming image quality cos of that compression with bitrate
Nvidia Canvas is pretty cool. I'm writing a fanfic and described an environmental scene. Three moons of different colours, two rising while the third descended over a mountain range. One of my reviewers asked for an image of it. Which obviously didn't exist.
Jumped onto Canvas, painted a sky and a mountain range in a few seconds, cut them apart in a photoshop program and added in the moons. Took me an hour to take something that was an image in my mind and make a version of it other people could see.
It obviously still has serious limitations. I could draw the entire scene via AI, just the 'backdrop' and then had to make and layer the moons manually. But as these tools get stronger, I could probably 'draw' an entire scene like that in Canvas if they add more element options to paint with. The trick then would be finding ways to retain consistency with previously generated designs so that each time you want to make a new one, it doesn't start all over and you get a totally different look in every image.
What your talking about with AI compression could be done with an Autoencoder network. The encode side is a large network that condenses into fewer vectors while the decoding side takes a few vectors and expands into the original size, the AI is then trained for encode/decode accuracy and the compression results can be absolutely wild. Toss an AI upscaling network like Nvidia's over top of the output and you could probably compress videos to a tenth of their original size without losing viewing quality. Of course, doing all of this on the fly would require insane computing power.
I use it to upscale shows, don't really care about it for CZcams videos as it's not as important to me. But it's pretty good. I watch a lot of 1080p content on a 1440p screen and that causes some MINOR fuzziness but VSR clears it up pretty well. Only thing is, at quality 4... damn. GPU uses like 310 watts and 30-40% usage. Which is why I actually believe Nvidia when they say the 20 series cards couldn't keep up and need additional development time
AMD could easily make a VFSR version of FSR, and I think Intel could make a XeVSS version of their XeSS, for similar results, but ideally also available for rendering videos. And the advantage of FSR is that it can work on all GPUs, including GPUs integrated in CPUs (aka. APUs).
god that looks good, video is smoother even on native youtube resolution
VSR works "fine" on lower power devices (if you ignore the glaring bugs that make it nearly impossible to use) but if we are talking about power consumption, I think nvidia just doesnt know how to manage higher power GPUS and just tries to throw the entire GPU at it instead of what is needed.
Hmm, I haven't been able to see a difference between VSR on or off. How do you know its working?
maybe in the future, the video description will contain an URL for AI-upscaling to retrieve the dataset to upscale the video in the best way, a few high res layers for the AI to work in-between or something. and if big-tech has their way, there might even be an add layer to dump adds into parts of the video image.
Topical here is that even though I have the quality set to high on CZcams so often it starts playing in 720p, even though I have a stable 600Mbps Wi-Fi connection.
Then have to go select the highest quality as an f u to google
What will REALLY bake your noodle is how we can produce a 360p (etc) resolution video designed to make the AI upscaling work better, by having the video compressor (essentially) use the same AI in reverse. (By “we” I mean “they” as in video tech wonks. I’m just an investor.)
Too bad even a 3060 can't handle the lowest Up Scale setting without dropping the video's framerate to like 40fps at 95+% usage. I wish they added an option to upscale to 1080p and just remove artifacts instead of pushing for 4k
Opera Gx have been doing this for a while now. its nice.
imagine how much bitrate it would save if theu stopped waving their arms as theu speak
Unfortunately it's not that simple. Most encoders really struggle with small movements. It's similar to the problem Luke mentioned. If a video is _completely_ still then it's very compressable. But if there's even a tiny bit of movement the bitrate quadruples. I can't understand why they haven't solved this yet considering how much of an effect it has on compression.
Unfortunately it's not that simple. Most encoders really struggle with small movements. It's similar to the problem Luke mentioned. If a video is _completely_ still then it's very compressable. But if there's even a tiny bit of movement the bitrate quadruples. I can't understand why they haven't solved this yet considering how much of an effect it has on compression.
Moving your head amounts to as much bitrate as moving your arms and body around, essentially.
This feature has been available on Nvidia SHIELD TV devices since November 2019 IIRC. The Shield TV uses an underpowered Tegra X1+ ARM SoC (essentially a Nintendo Switch running at stock clock speed), can anyone explain why the F**K it took Nvidia 3 years to bring the feature to their discrete PC GPUs that are an order of magnitude more powerful than the Tegra X1??? Honestly, I'm baffled they didn't debut this feature on PC and then optimize it for ARM. The Tegra X1+ doesn't use more than 20 watts while gaming so the AI upscaling can't use 300 watts for sure, so why is it so unpolished on PC and why does it seem like the requirements to make it work are a lot more complicated? The Tegra X1 is on Maxwell GPU architecture, and Nvidia can't even promise this will work on Turing?!? It doesn't make any sense!! lol
LOL, thank you. I was looking for this comment
I've been wanting to say the same as well. And from what I've seen of it (and my own testing) it's not even better than old technology. NGU upscaling is free and looks sharper. It's noise reduction might not compare with Nvidia's but I haven't really tried it because noise reduction in general just makes it look blobby and washed out.
I've been wanting to say the same as well. And from what I've seen of it (and my own testing) it's not even better than old technology. NGU upscaling is free and looks sharper. It's noise reduction might not compare with Nvidia's but I haven't really tried it because noise reduction in general just makes it look blobby and washed out.
I am SO glad Linus mentioned the power draw of RTX VSR. Gamers Nexus did an excellent video but for some reason they literally did not mention power draw whatsoever. I don’t care much about power draw, but I don’t really want to suck back 330W on my 3080 just to watch CZcams videos when CPU bound games won’t even use that much lmao
CZcams 4K can have banding depending on how you shoot it and the bit rate you use. There are youtubers who do extremely high quality 4k Videos with no banding. This will just allow more low quality videos.
Compression is the biggest killer of quality. 1080p offline often looks better than 4k online
A motte is something that others can't do (CUDA). Everyone can do upscaling. Entertainment systems have been doing upscaling for a decade. The AI upscaling was announced within a week for both Intel and AMD. Personally, I'm sick of upscaling. I want pixel perfect 4k because hitting the limitations of technology is how you get better tech. Downgrading your processes to enable more with less is how you get taken as a consumer. Projectors rendering 3-4 1080p frames for 4k. Games with no optimizations relying on AI Super Sampling to make it playable. Coax hitting 1Gb instead of Fiber to the home so you still have shit upload.
Someone fixed the wrinkle on the wall, my viewing experience is ruined.
We switched back to the Apple TV for AirPlay and I forgot how much i relied on the nvidia shield AI upscaling!
So the NFL confetti cannon now shoots out square cards with 'confetti goes here' QR codes... Cool!
Considering who's behind it, I could see this being used in cloud gaming to improve responsiveness. Basically ship video signal at lower quality to reduce the amount of data sent, then enhance on client machine.
I don't think the cloud gaming machines would be able to handle this, they're all complete crap.
Since it requires 30/40 series, I don't think so. What would be the point of using cloud gaming if your hardware is already top of the line.
@@404fanfanboy instantly start play after purchase, and you stream the game while the game downloads in the background
@@jceggbert5 While that is a good idea, thats not at all what im talking about, I'm saying if you already have the hardware for great graphics, just play the game on your machine, not stream it and have it upscaled to a varied quality that may or may not be as good. Plus, the people that are streaming games probably have a mediocre pc and so they will not be able to upscale it.
@@404fanfanboy The current implementation is insanely computationally intensive(considering the 300W requirement). If they get that requirement down to something more reasonable, it could trickle down to lowspec models. Again, this is just a first attempt at something like this.
we free users are locked at 1080p in xxi century. after years of 4k now we miss that feature
If a tegra X1 can do it why can't 9, 10, or 20 series capable?
I really like that question that someone asked what is the bitrate of the floatplane and Luke just made his way out of the answer. Do someone know what is the bitrate of the floatplane?
I wonder if Kodi can upscale our libraries of videos ? 😊
Can someone test this out with TheSlomoguys glitter video where they broke CZcams video compression?
I feel like im taking crazy pills. I have a 40 series card, updated every possible bit of software on my pc and I dont notice a single difference on this video at any resolution with vsr on, which im watching on a 4k tv.
Most people are saying the same. It barely makes a difference at all. And the hype videos that say "You can immediately see an insane jump in quality" are obviously blind. It's sad that those videos even exist in the first place.
Me enjoying upscaled 4K videos.
My gpu: 🔥
Wait, you can upscale Netflix?
Isn't Netflix 4k a higher price tier?
I wonder how long until upscaling Netflix gets disabled
huh floatplane has drm? widevine? L1? L3?
I love this feature so far. Wake up one day to an extra thing on my gpu. Not bad
When doing content creation (not on this channel so don't look for it I don't advertise) 4k recording would be way too expensive as the file sizes are massive and I don't like to delete my footage. This is good news.
I just tried this watching this video, and it didn't look great to me? No matter what setting I had it set to it made linus' beard and neck look extremely AI generated by smoothing it out like crazy
I tried it while watching this video and in my own opinion it looks bad. It just makes everything look like a moving painting. As someone stated in another comment, it might work better for animated videos so i'm gonna have to try that out. But for now I doubt i'll be using it
Imagine if servers could send neural network fragments to users that are fine tuned for their particular content. Or imagine if there was some kind of hashing so they could borrow fragments you've already downloaded. I could imagine the server and client being like "Draw a giraffe here" - 'What's a giraffe?' - "It's like a horse but longer" - 'okay done'
Neural network fragment? LMAO you have to be trolling
@@deiminator2 I’m imagining something more like a textual inversion or a LORA. Just trying to get the concept across without getting bogged down in the details
I wonder if Nvidia can use frame generation to turn 30 to 60 fps video or higher?
Will this also come for Firefox?
AI for encoding *and* decoding? I'm not sure it'll be necessary. Think about it from this perspective: Would you do it for audio? No, who cares, audio doesn't really weight anything.
It'll be a race between using AI for encoding/decoding or compression, and bandwidth/storage/ram price v capacity. I think bandwidth/storage/ram will get to the point where you don't care about a 4k stream before AI gets good enough at it. We might get it in the meanwhile if there is some overlap.
This already happened with compression, think about software like DriveSpace. It was a race between hard drive capacity and CPU power. Storage capacity grew so fast, faster than CPU power, that compressing a drive didn't really make sense really quick.
A lot of regular AI research already uses encoding and decoding of video and images. I wrote my thesis on this. It is a lot slower than standard compression algorithms, and it doesn't really make sense for compression, especially not how compression already works so well.
@@JBinero You mean lossless or lossy? I was thinking more in terms of lossy, basically what Linus was saying: Optimize the encoding and decoding AIs to work with each other, send some metadata alongside the encoded-for-AI video that the decoding AI can understand.
Netflix: quality above 480p requires a more premium membership for $6 more a month.
Me: lol jokes on you, I'll just buy a 4090 and save myself the cash over a 40 year period.
They were basically just describing Adobe Flash
So does it work on Netflix? If so how will a vendor like Netflix be able to charge for hi-res streams if people can just upscale the low-res streams?
why would we care? it's their problem not Nvidia's or ours. Should we stop evolution so that businesses dont go broke?
I wish I could get float plan but I can never get my validation email!!!
I hope they expand functionality to firefox browser as well
I don't need upscaling, I just need youtube to stop changing my quaility settings from 4k down to garbage. Linus says almost no one uses 4k on youtube, well maybe it's because youtube keeps turning it off
At what point is this just a new compression technique?
High quality 1080p is good enough.
thanks
finally linus duke nukem in 4k!!!!
Can anyone tell me how (the 4k upscaler) it would affect say VCR rips to digital?? Or even a VCR stream to screen output??
Linus, might be a good video opp
From what I've seen 360p videos get washed out and smudged. So going lower (like to VHS) will probably just become big blobs of color.
From what I've seen 360p videos get washed out and smudged. So going lower (like to VHS) will probably just become big blobs of color. And that's assuming you can even run it since it only works in Chrome at 360p or higher currently.
meanwhile some of us are using 1080p monitor from 2011... sadge
Okay, when do we get it on actual browsers? (firefox)
what about 4k to 4k or 1080 to 1080 to deal with the insane over compression they do on YT?
it's better to upscale a good quality 720p video than an over compressed 1080p one
@@xeon2k8 It's YT, EVERYTHING is way over compressed. :(
I'm happing with 30 fps at any resolution.
how do i use this on my 3050 laptop
One thousand percent dodged the question about how much more bitrate floatplane is on average
If .. the power consumption is this high, the first thing has to be to drastically lower the power usage.
If that can be achieved, streaming will be heavily reduced bandwidth, which overall would be good for everyone. The downside is, nobody will see the real source anymore, so a loss of data and reality would come along with that. Which in itself offers room for bad actors as well.
300 watts is the power draw of the PS5 under load lol.
Random but did they fire the previous podcast producer? The guy with the deep voice?
I have been following this and now it is here I see no difference. But, High bitrate 1080P from CZcams IS impressive. Nvidia thing seems like bs.
I play on a large screen so 4k is a big deal to me. Upscale 1080p in my mind looks garb to 4k
I'm not gonna use those crap browsers.. I'd rather stick with 480p than use that crap