The Best Faction For The Mojave | Has Everything Changed?!?
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- A little over a year ago now, I made a video about which of the four main factions in Fallout: New Vegas would be the ideal choice to take control of the Mojave wasteland and hopefully transform it into something livable for it's citizens and all who reside underneath their banner, I received a fair share of disagreements or people telling me that I misinterpreted certain points or arguments but there's also been new information provided to us by the recently released Fallout show, so a year after my initial video covering this topic, has my opinion changed? Who is the best faction for the Mojave?
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BGM
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Chapters
0:00 Introduction
1:27 Yes Man and An Independent New Vegas
2:09 The Courier's Inexperience
3:30 The Ambiguity of Yes Man's Servitude
6:54 Why People Like The NCR or House Are Needed
8:28 Caesar's Legion
10:35 What Are Caesar's Motivations?
14:12 How Does The Caesar's Presence Influence The Mojave Today?
16:35 What Happens To The Legion Following Victory?
25:07 The New California Republic
25:59 The NCR's Infighting, Division, and Imperialism
28:59 The NCR is Free(?)
29:52 NCR SPOILERS BEGIN
32:07 NCR SPOILERS END
32:14 Mr. House
33:26 "House Is Only Trying To Make Himself Look Good!"
34:47 House Represents Something New
35:28 House's Autocracy
36:33 Why Can't We Be Friends?
40:02 The Longevity of House's Government
41:05 House's Utter Supremacy To The Other Factions
42:11 Lingering "Issues" With House
43:29 MR. HOUSE SPOILERS BEGIN
44:49 MR HOUSE SPOILERS END
45:43 Outroduction - Zábava
I believe the devs stated that what yes-man said was poorly worded and actually means that he will take orders only from the courier from now on and not some random guy
Also tbh all the other ones have you listening to w a y more random guys.
This guy is like a Lore Lodge, just stomps on the opposing side cuz addressing it would be too hard.
Tbh that was what I assumed when I was younger and first played the game but I started to recently question it after watching a few videos like these, so good to know that's confirmed now.
They did. But unfortunately, death of the author applies. The intended meaning isn't relevant if the work can justifiably lead to a different result than intended. Yes Man's ambiguous phrasing takes precedent over developer statements about "oh, what we really wanted him to say was..." Yes Man either listening to the next person who comes along, or becoming an uncontrollable and independent faction leader of the Securitrons, are absolutely legitimate concerns with his route and ending. If it could happen to Benny, it could happen to the Courier.
@@terpfen I see your point but death of the author is a literal theory not fact therefore saying it applies over the simple fact that the writers made an error in yes man’s delivery of dialogue is a stretch is it not
This was literally addressed in the video:
"Yes Man is reprogramming himself now to be more assertive for the Courier, but how long before he simply decides to reprogram himself again, as he's already demonstrated here that he's capable of and willing to do. And there is no way of truly knowing that every time he repograms himself it will be for the Courier, or in line with what the Courier plans for Vegas."
And I think it's a good argument, Yes Man has demonstrated the capability to reprogram himself to change his behaviour without needing permission by the Courier, therefore he is capable of doing so again.
“I don’t think yes man or the courier is helping new Vegas”
My messiah lvl 50 courier with 10 intelligence, charisma and luck: “the hell I can!!!”
The independent ending is as good and as bad as the player character is. It can either be the best ending or the worst ending depending on your choices. But in its core, it allows the locals of Vegas to have a shot at their own kind of civilization, free from house's tyranny, from the ncr's imperialism and the legions barbarism. A lot of people ignore the co-op in Westside but I think it is the first steps of a great civilization that is free and democratic in all aspects of life.
Of course that's only my head canon, the independent ending's outcomes changes from person to person lol
Regardless of your karma the region is left without a governing body to bring order and several areas of the Mojave, including Vegas, are left experiencing difficulties, increased violence and security instability and even riots (worse than before) the followers struggle to keep presence in the region and many areas become a nest for raider gangs.
There is one secret-ish ending to a questline that could have potentially significant ramifications on the Wild Card Ending. The Courier can become the heir to Papa Khan, or, in fact, become it's leader *during* the game. It requires some interesting and brutal acts, but it can be done. This is not addressed in any of the ending slides, and in fact glitches the Khans slides out. I feel like a Courier who has both a robot army, several friendly local groups(like the Boomers) *and* the Khans on their side has potential for a proper nation to form. Of course...it's not addressed in the ending slides at all.
This!
Do this in almost every playthrough before entering the Strip!
I like the idea of Yes Man activating a protocol to initiate Mr. Houses AI personality that he created to succeed him would probably be pretty likely. The House always wins after all...
Would be cool but House is still biological, just hooked up to all the machines, so not exactly possible
@@astor2994i mean he did it to his robot girlfriend, why wouldnt he do it to himself?
@@ztmackinhe’s a narcissist he isn’t going to let anyone else run New Vegas if he has a say in it
@@ztmackin I always interpreted those robot women as very limited recordings, not like total mind in the machine stuff. Does the game specify anywhere?
All the mentions of anarchy in the independent ending, you're taking out of context. The text makes it very clear that Independent Vegas quickly stabilizes.
"Any chaos on the streets was ended, quickly. Chaos became uncertainty, then acceptance, with minimal loss of life. New Vegas assumed its position as an independent power in the Mojave."
As for Yes Man's autonomy, he only really criticizes you when you make awful decisions, like destroying half of your own securitron army, or helping the brotherhood, who will never be in support of Vegas using securitrons.
Another misconception is that the independent ending has the courier acting as a dictator, but that's not true. Independent end slides make multiple mentions of freedom and self governance, where no other ending does. This isn't a coup where the courier asserts themself as an absolute ruler. It's the establishment of an independent, free, self-governing state and the only ending where small communities like Goodsprings can thrive.
Whenever Legion comes as a topic everyone praising "safety" and "stability" forget that it exists only for a small number of people
As far as we know, people in legion territory all enjoy peace once the Conquest is over
@@Alex-yf4zi this. people get too stuck on the conquest and enslavement of profligates part and forget that there are normal people too. for an example of life in legion territories for normal people, see primm with ncr as law enforcement. on legion ending the ncr runs away, and primm doesn't try to resist the legion forces. they don't enslave anyone there, just integrate primm into their territories and let them live their life, only positioning a few soldiers to defend the area from hostiles and look for signs of subversion..
@Alex-yf4zi this. people get too stuck on the conquest and enslavement of profligates part and forget that there are normal people too. for an example of life in legion territories for normal people, see primm with ncr as law enforcement. on legion ending the ncr runs away, and primm doesn't try to resist the legion forces. they don't enslave anyone there, just integrate primm into their territories and let them live their life, only positioning a few soldiers to defend the area from hostiles and look for signs of subversion.
@@Alex-yf4zi this.
And those saying it only exists for a small number of people forget that we only see the Legion in a war zone. Their tactics of destroying settlements, crucifixions, enslaving the enemy etc all serve the purpose of breaking enemy morale. Should the territory become theirs, there would be no enemy to break the morale of, and so these tactics would largely end (Except when it comes to those who break Legion law of course)
also further proof that house didnt agree on them dropping the bombs in the game house was caught off guard by the bombs dropping and wasnt completely ready when it happened
House can't find a peaceful resolution with the BOS (comparatively NCR can), does practically nothing for Goodsprings (NCR is abit worse), either doesn't touch Freeside/Kings at all or executes them all to expand territory(NCR is infinitely better), does nothing about the Powder Gangers (NCR clean them up even if the player doesn't), does nothing to Primm or hurts it mroe if they sided with NCR (NCR is better), does nothing to the Followers (worse than NCR). Additionally all of the Companion endings are worse with him.
So the text from Ending Slides (our only canon source for the Mojave's Future outside the Show) is practically universally in favour of the NCR.
But beyond that let's talk abit about incompetence since that's something People like to bring up with NCR. House is literally incapable of doing anything without the intervention of the Courier, like straight up he can do actually nothing. Only reason House is independent is because he got the magical perfect storm to lineup for him to hold his Independence, if NCR wasn't dealing with Legion they would've taken over The Strip, if the Strip wasn't protected by the NCR then Legion or Random tribes would've taken it over.
Moreover, House's Laissez Faire attitude to literally all his subjects causes the potential re-emergence of Cannibalism in the White Glove Society, a guaranteed Terrorist attack by the Omertas without Courier Intervention and The potential usurpation of his throne by the Chairmen (or Benny atleast). He straight up admits that he allows Legion spies to roam freely on the strip which is what likely caused the Terrorist Attack to potentially happen, and due to his signed contract he is willing to do absolutely nothing about it. So 3 more examples of the utter Failure of his system.
Finally, if you even remotely defy/disagree with him directly he immediately shuts down and either refuses to move forward or attacks you. So no Negotiating again.
Basically He can't do shit without the Courier compared to the other Factions, is unwilling to follow any vision other than his own, has way worse ending slides than NCR, gouges everyone working on the strip outside the families (Vault 21, some of the Salespeople) and then exercices so little Control/Surveillance over the families that literally every single one of them is concocting a massively immoral plan, a massively detrimental plan to his rule, or both, and finally gives 0 shits about every non-strip faction, unless they're opposed to him, at which point he executes them.
Only thing you can say he has over NCR is a potential Future, but you have to absolutely believe he can pull that shit off, be ok that he's likely only doing it to the Strip and potentially a few surrounding areas, be ok with him bulldozing anyone whose remotely against him, and you have to disregard the existance of the Big MT which potentially far surpasses his technological Know-How, AKA we don't actually need House for any of the Tech, just the logistics.
and that all without mentioning the Downsides of a Dictatorship compared to a Democracy.
IMO before the Show dropped the choice is so obviously NCR favored it's not even funny, nowadays with the ability to see the future House could potentially be better, but without seeing how the Strip is doing and how far along his Space Ship plan he's gotten it's hard to tell if he's doing all that well.
House ending is basically "Yes Man" with a stronger and expanding New Vegas, at the expense of Freeside
And Im okay with that 😎
I'm glad someone mentioned this because people just ignore the flaws with House. He's undeniably a good choice but he's not perfect and has flaws that don't make him automatically the best choice for the Mojave.
@@Mikey-xz4vn damn. "At the expense of the poor and working class"
@@gasterg.continent3118 Hey, when you make an omelette sometimes you gotta exterminate a gang of dudes LARPing as Elvis 😅
@@Mikey-xz4vn tbf it's less LARPing and more Religious Fanaticism.
Idk if that's better or worse though but they have kept some semblance of peace in Freeside.
Something interesting in surprised I’ve never seen anyone note is near the end of lonesome road if you’re doing an NCR playthrough there’s a dialogue option where you tell ullysses you’ll help reshape the NCR or “fix” it. That one dialogue option to me brings a lot more merit to the NCR, suggesting that the courier could help mold the NCR to a slightly better state after the second battle of Hoover dam
I feel like there’s two ways of viewing this.
Like yes, throughout the game you are, in some ways, “fixing” the ncr, through helping the people and army and creating alliances across the Mojave, you are bringing the Republic more in line with it’s egalitarian values which is something that isn’t really possible with the other two factions. Through spiritually saving the NCR, we are proving the value of representative democracy over totalitarian autocracy.
The other way is that this line is incredibly naive. Consider how many examples of trying to “reform the system from the inside” has actually worked because it’s surprisingly few, Just look at how many cops are fired or shunned for reporting on the immoral behaviour of their peers. Throughout the game you have to “fix” the ncr because whenever it’s encountered a tense situation, its first response is violence and extermination. Yeah, you the player can change the NCr because it wouldn’t be as fun for the player if the choices you make in the game had zero impact.
The ncr is an incredibly flawed faction and while you can help out the soldiers sent to the Mojave, the chance to make a real change beyond Vegas seems very slim.
There's another nice thing that can only be achieved through a Mr. House ending(And possibly Yes Man ending). If you confront Chief Hanlon on the same playthrough, but don't expose what was he doing(So he survives), after House's victory Hanlon will successfully become a Senator opposing imperialistic fools like Kimball and Oliver. So in a way, House's victory is also the best for NCR, as it has a chance of slowly causing some of NCR's issues to be fixed.
Also Fallout show is not a particularly reliable source when talking about the game, considering that according to it NCR capital was nuked before events of New Vegas... which clearly isn't canon with the game. Also the idea of Vault-Tec being the ones who fired the first nukes is also show's invention, as long time ago one of original Fallout creators said that first nuke was fired by China, after it discovered America was working on the FEV.
1. it does not state that Shady Sands was nuked before the events of New Vegas, that is a misreading of one scene in the show.
2. it is NOT in any way confirmed that Vault-Tec fired first. it is canon they had a contingency to do so, but that has been a theory in the community for years. furthermore, we find numerous vaults that are still FAR from unfinished, Vault-Tec wouldn't fire first unless they could maximize profits.
@@kristinagraversgaard5328 1. Okay, then why is there no date under the nuking of Shady Sands on the board? Every other event has a date. Meanwhile Fall of the Shady Sands is the last date, and it points at the nuke like it was the reason for it. Don't you think if the nuke happened at different year, there would be a date for it? It was a retcon or giant oversight, and denying that is coping.
2. I suppose it's not completely confirmed, but given that TV series is trying to hamfist a "Capitalism bad!" message, it would be very much on brand for it to make it so. Just look how they bastardized Frederick Sinclair just to make that point. He definitely didn't seem like a stereotypical evil fat capitalist in New Vegas, nor was he the owner of Big MT just invested in it and had some technology installed in Sierra Madre...
4:20 I don't understand why people still think Yes Man will backstab you. I think Sawyer saying that Yes Man doesn't become independent is an ironclad reason for him to remain subservient in perpetuity. Why would Sawyer say that if it held no weight after an arbitrary amount of time? Yes Man is just a program following a directive. Reprogramming himself to exclusively serve the Courier doesn't deviate from his directive, so why assume Yes Man will randomly go against programing?
22:12 Something to note: the Legion waiting to reengage the NCR would be great for their Frumentarii. The legion has been shown to have men in the ranks of the Mojave NCR. In the interim, their spies could wiggle their way into a lot of high-ranking NCR positions or critical infrastructure.
I enjoyed the video and I'm glad people are still making content about NV's endings. At the end of the day, every faction boils down to different flavors of exploitation anyway.
"I don't understand why people still think Yes Man will backstab you." Because Yes Man's ending statement is ambiguous enough that betrayal, or his being forced to help someone else overthrow the Courier in a poetic recreation of what the Courier did to Benny, is a realistic option. Sawyer's out of game statements do not trump what actually occurs in the game; death of the author applies.
6:21 I NEVER LOST CONTROL🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥
God damm you
He still doesn't know what happens in the Yes Man ending
A very interesting retcon: House explains to the player that he was unaware of the nitty gritty of the bombs and the war and only knew out of probability, though the show (SPOILERS) shows us he was at the meeting from vault-tech. Which means one of 3 things: 1, House learns this information and uses it to at the very least protect Vegas in a good standing, 2, he uses the information as a benefit to Vegas and protecting it for malicious intent with potential ideas of making Vegas the only option for people and reaping profit from it, or 3, he knows of the plan and is in on it for option 2 but with the addition that he doesn't share this with the player and intends on pursuing something evil in some sort of dominating or experimental goals. Though, bombs did fall on Vegas itself, so maybe House was not only horrified at the prospect but might've actively went against it, marking him as an enemy of Vault-tech and them attempting to destroy Vegas, which would put House very well above other factions for his enduring morals and refusal to fall into such an elevating scheme. Certainly hard to come to a concrete answer until season 2 of the show drops (get it? Drops? Like a bomb? Lol)
Or option 4: House walked away from that meeting with the knowledge of how far Vault-Tec would go, having absolutely no interest in waging war against his revenue stream (the general public) and sets about preparing for that (still hypothetical) worst case scenario. Then China beat them to the Big Red Button, short-changing House one Platinum Chip. Thus not knowing the nitty gritty of what happened.
Less of a retcon, more of an interpretation into how he knew to prepare.
This guy above me is saying some good shit
Wake Up Baby, another Fallout video
No notes, everything I commented on in the previous video was addressed here, a good video, your first factions video was how I found you and I hope you find further success with this channel.
Just started watching this and realised that the vid was released only 3 hours ago. Btw, keep up the quality! Your videos are really good and I would love for your channel to progress. Good luck!
Loved the original video, glad to see another visit to the Mojave
I think independence ending is good if you want to let every faction build themselve
Not really the brotherhood, for example takes control of the I-15 and starts confiscating technology from civilians
I think indepence is usually considered better since most people Courier would go "fix" up troublemakers.
But really the only thing making Independence bad is that you would need to befriend and take out the troublemakers beforehand cuz NCR would be like "Sure dont like us but we can still fight"
I think they could of worked in Good and Bad karma variations to Indepence slides to help show the Courier skill... or lack of in managing people.
@@spacemarine3482 granted we dont know what exactly that means, could be only Weapons or could be more and im not sure if its a Bad thing to have less tech around
@@Alex-yf4zi Given that the BOS and the Mojave chapter are very conservative in following the codex, I don't have high hopes they'll only be weapons. Also, Veronica is shaken up by this, so it seems they were confusing most tech.
Youre absolutely correct about Yes Man. The appeal of his ending is that the ending slides aren't clear enough about your system being set up to crash and burn. That means denialists get to write fanfics.
I blame whichever writer self-inserted Arcade.
People complain that writers confirmed Yes man was not intended to turn into evil AI, but we can say the same for the NCR, for example. Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky didn't intend that Shady Sands, saved from raiders and radscorpions, would become a bureaucratic nightmare controlled by Brahmin barons, that will fight a war with Rome empire cosplayers in football gear lead by a nerd with brain tumor. That wasn't implied, but this how it ended up to be, because it's a valid interpretation of the consequences and a decent direction for the next game story. Did NV writers wanted to imply that Yes Man can go rogue? No. Did they? Yes. Will it go anywhere, would we see this explored in Fallout? Who knows. At the very least - is a good enough in character reason to not trust Yes Man. Devs did said a lot of things over the years. Like how Legion wasn't meant to be overly misogynistic, that they don't really hate women, just think their place is in the kitchen. But in reality every character in Fort starts his dialogue with fem MC like "Eeewww, filthy woman, know your place, women are inferior and stupid, you only good to be slaves, ahhh, I hate women". It's in a game, isn't it? To go after this and be like "Well, they certainly weren't supposed to hate me, Sawyer said so! They just treat me in a utilitarian way, that's how it was intended! Now I will ignore what they say in the game, and create a headcanon where it's makes sense!". Like, c'mon guys...
I rather deal with one rogue ai... then 2 whole nations of them and the half ai in the basement that couldnt bother to be nice for 20 seconds.
@@Subject_Keter well, that would definitely be your choice. Considering such approach, that only 3 established forces in the region that are willing to stand up to tribes of cannibals, raiders, mutants that prefer decorating their places with bundles of gore - those are compared to rogue AI... Machine that has no morals, no appreciation for human life, explicitly created as a virus by some girl that received her education in the wasteland, wasn't coded with any restrictions other than complying with whoever talks to it, that has effectively unlimited amount of walking (well, strolling, but not the point) robot tanks armed with Gatling lasers, grenade launchers and rockets, capacity to make more, unlimited electricity, higher computing power than any other AI in Fallout history (btw, they have history of going rogue, previous AI that was allowed to govern was planning to destroy all organic life with a virus), because it's pretty much a neural network spread through entire House infrastructure, with all major players that could have possibly stopped it - removed from the picture... Well, why wouldn't you go with Elijah plan and skip all of the anarchy nonsense, at least this one would be quicker and it would have less horrifying implications for the wasteland. But I get it, Kimball makes everyone pay taxes and House refused to give Courier tons of caps and was mildly rude to you that one time, worthy reason to hand over the world on the platter to reincarnation of Skynet. Perfect plan, really. No way how that could possibly backfire
I agree with you while at the same time agreeing in part with the NV writers as well. In the sense that I understand that their vision was for the legion to be slightly more sympathetic than they turned out in execution, but also seeing the legion as they are in game.
@@michaelcarroll5801 no no, I certainly get what the writers were going for. The reason they appear like that is due to most of the Legion being cut out of the game because of time constraints. Barely few of them left, and we didn't get to see other side of the coin, people with more normal agreeable views on things. I brought it up because - it was intended one way, but you won't find any evidence of this in the game itself. Whether they wanted to or not, there's a certain way they will be perceived. Most people will meet them, say "Wow, you are all assholes" and not interact with them. It would be better if they were a bit less comically evil, and would not alienate half of the player base on first impression, but this what we got. So I argue it's just as fair to be creeped up by a AI, that appears a bit problematic, as it would be to despise Legion based on their treatment of women like cattle
I've always imagined the Independent Ending of New Vegas meant the Mojave stayed as it was before House revitalized the Strip.
Lawless, ungoverned and free.
I play as a Wild West Cowboy who's more at home sleeping under the open sky than in any settlement, and I think Yes Man's ending speaks to that more than a dictatorial rule by Courier Six.
Holy shit I just watched the first one yesterday! What a coincidence!
I think the results of the yes man ending were essentially teased in Lonesome Road
In what way?
@ezkitty_ the courier is flawed and no matter how minor the actions they take, they are going to cause massive change and suffering somehow
@@anthonyjensen5524 so is mr house and even the ncr, ESPECIALLY the ncr. This isn't a solid argument against Yes Man. It's the head canon ending. Your courier could very easily know how to run a city/casino/nation with head canon lore. Other established characters have certain flaws to them. With Yes Man literally anything is viable. Ruin or massive success
"It may be... that as much destruction has been written in the earth here... you may build something else, as you build the Divide. You have spoken truly. There is a sahdow of a nation behind you, the hope of a people..."
Sounds to me like Lonesome Road is teasing that you have the potential to build a new nation, with the hope of it's people behind you.
What's even worse is that the results of the ending were essentially teased... By the end of the game, "Any chaos on the streets was ended, quickly. Chaos became uncertainty, then acceptance, with minimal loss of life. New Vegas assumed its position as an independent power in the Mojave."
No matter how good the ending is for everyone, there is always going to be people who lost and will suffer somehow for it.
Because war, war never changes
34:38 - this is exactly the problem with house though. to him, the fate of mankind is tied to the fate of HIS army, HIS power. he has a god complex. just because he genuinely believes he is the best hope for humanity doesn't mean he is. at the end of the day he's a megalomaniac with a lot of power, not unlike his contemporaries. his goals just happen to be loftier.
the goat has returned
Even if yes man is loyal to the currior, the currior will die eventually which is something that yes man would know... I love infinite possibilities.
i think the thing that makes the independent vegas so strange is that its essentially up to you on what you'd think your courier would do. if you have an obvious good natured character who maybe is friends with everyone, it can be interpreted that your courier (in time of course) would do all they can to help out every faction that struggled in a independent vegas, while if you were more cold, say wiping out all of the other tribes simply because you are violent, and maybe even wiped out the securitron army in the fort, then yeah vegas and the mojave are screwed because there isn't a single person there to protect it, thats what i like with the independent ending, though the slides tell you different you can believe that say in a few years time the mojave could be okay because of your hero that you created for the game, or even worse because you made a monster who would wipe out the followers because, i dont like doctors, or something
The Fallout show should be irrelevant to this decision in New Vegas, because it hasn't happened yet - the Courier can't see the future.
but it does canonize one
@@kristinagraversgaard5328
You can't make decisions with accurate hindsight - that's what makes it hindsight. The Courier could only decide to influence New Vegas and the Mojave based on what they knew at the time, so that's all should be relevant.
You can say what might've been better, given hindsight, but that's a different matter. Say the NCR ending is _the_ canon ending, and we have now seen the outcome, we haven't seen how the other outcomes would look 15 years on. There's nothing to say the Legion; Mr House; or Yes Man would've done better than we've seen in the show, because we haven't seen it - absence of evidence isn't proof.
OK, now that I've watched both videos and digested them for a few days while busy with work, here's my defense of the Yes Man ending, which has always been my preference.
First, let me start by saying what Diego got right: this ending is chaotic and unpredictable, especially considering Courier Six full-on leaves the Mojave after the events of the game. There's no proof that Yes Man won't change his programming however he wants and there's even less guarantee that the future will be safe or happy for anyone. But that's what I think makes this ending so special: only YOU can do your best, through your actions, to create a prosperous independent future for the Mojave. I know Diego says in his video that he's not taking player intervention into account, but in my opinion, that's really where the meat of this ending lies. Theoretically, every minor faction outside the NCR, Legion, and Mr. House can be helped all the way through to the conclusion of their quests, even if some of their interests contradict one another. In fact, helping every community as much as you can is how you get my ideal version of this ending, one which grants not a guarantee, but the only CHANCE that the Mojave, and moreover Nevada, has of standing on its own two feet.
Believe me, I am under NO delusions that an independent Vegas would survive a direct Invasion from either the NCR or Legion, especially if either side decided to bring down the full weight of their armies upon it. But I think there's something to be said about the rightness of the fight against all three major factions, even if it isn't one that the people are likely to win. In my opinion, this is what Fallout is all about! Ever since they put ending slides in the very first game it was about helping communities survive to the best of their ability, even if it meant they were destroyed later like Vault 13 or they turned into enemies later like the NCR.
Also, capitulation to the safety or security of the big governments of the area certainly seems logical, but I think if you look at the message of the Fallout series as a whole, that's not the right answer. For example, the idea of returning to Old World American Democracy might sound appealing and almost like the objectively correct moral choice if you've grown up in the U.S. all your life, but when we take a look at the NCR it is immediately apparent that they share so many of the problems wr still have today that it's hardly worth going over each one in detail. If you know something is wrong with the United States, then it shoudl be easy to tell that something is rotten in the state of NCR as well. As for the Legion, you and Raul both present a somewhat compelling argumrnt in favor of Legion rule, but in my view retreating into Roman-style society is just as if not more short-sighted than blindly returning to the "Democracy" of California. Calgacus said it best: "These plunderers of the world [the Romans], after exhausting the land by their devastations, are rifling the ocean: stimulated by avarice, if their
enemy be rich; by ambition, if poor; unsatiated by the East and by the West:
the only people who behold wealth and indigence with equal avidity. To ravage,
to slaughter, to usurp under false titles, they call empire; and where they make
a desert, they call it peace." If you side with the Legion you might end up with security, employment, stability, and absolutely no one left alive to share it with. In the end, both NCR and Legion are reactionary retreats into the kind of Old World ideology that got everyone where they are in the first place. If one wants to change the world, they have to accept that a new reality is possible.
Alright, but the knocks against NCR and Legion are pretty obvious to everyone except their most dedicated glazers, so let me try and refute the faction that Diego argues for: Mr. House. Just like in my first paragraph, I'll start here with what Diego is right about: Mr. House is a visionary, and under his rule the living standards in New Vegas and the surrounding areas would likely improve dramatically. The question you have to ask about Mr. House is: can he make good on his promises? For example, House says that given the Platinum Chip and subsequently pushing out the NCR and Legion, he would have the "high development technology sectors" up and running in 20 years. 20 years?! Sir, it's been ten times that long since the bombs dropped and most towns still haven't figured out how to build a well. I understand that House is a genius, but he'd have to be an actual omnipotent God if he wanted to build sufficient consumer goods industries, military industries, infrastructure, Healthcare, law enforcement, AND food and water supplies for his entire territory in 20 years. And if all those things aren't done, people won't be willing to work on the *low* development technology sectors, much less the high ones. Let's not even worry about the people in orbit in 50 years and lump those criticisms in with his next statement, which is that "colony ships" (I see what you did there, Obsidian) will be active in space in 100 years. Idk if you've noticed, but space travel technology in the Fallout universe isn't exactly operating at the highest standards of efficiency. Hell, take just New Vegas as an example: we see rocket ships and even use them in-game, and where do they go? Not up! Y’know, where SPACE IS?! They fly along the horizon, and I SWEAR I've seen the crashed rockets in other parts of the Mojave but found nothing about it online. All this to say that in conclusion, Mr. House may only believe in Walt Disney-style idyllic Capitalism rather than Imperialistic and Authoritarian Capitalism, but ultimately he's an idealist. He WANTS good things for the post-apocalypse, but unless he's willing to become the kind of dictator that he insists he isn't, one who is concerned with what people do in their free time, he's not going to get nearly as far as he claims.
I'm going to try and wrap up what has now become an actual essay by backing up my claims with some stuff the Courier can achieve in-game as far as the Yes Man ending goes, so here's a list:
1. If the Courier upgrades the Securitrons at The Fort, the narrator will explain that the chaos there was ended quickly and with minimal bloodshed. This shows that, if nothing else, the Securitron Army under Yes Man is capable of controlling The Strip.
2. All companion characters and even NPCs like Tabitha can be helped by the Courier to the point of fulfilling their maximum potential as people
3. The Boomers can be preserved in an independent Vegas, which is in my opinion a good thing since its another powerful independent community in Nevada. Their howitzers and willingness to use them are a concern, but everyone mostly knows Boomer culture around outsiders by that point anyway. In my opinion the Boomers have the "society made for the post-apocalypse" that Caesar claims to have in his Legion.
4. Assuming McNamara is still Elder, the Brotherhood continues its mission and patrols roads while not utilizing the aggressive, conservative tactics of Hardin. I think that they're worth keeping around just to have people with Power Armor ready to face an outside threat, but if you don't like them hoarding or harassing people then you could always just blow them up.
5. Many people point to the Followers ending for a reason as to why Independence is unsustainable, but the game never says that the influx of patients is permanent. They would just have to wait it out or get help from the Courier to bounce back.
6. Independent Vegas is the only good ending for Goodsprings besides House, who does the same thing except with the addition of Victor as a spy there.
7. The Great Khans ending where they leave and carve out a new empire in Wyoming creates both a potential ally/buffer state and a potentially better future for the Khans with the Followers at their side.
8. Only the Independent ending can create actual peace between Freeside locals and NCR refugees
9. The ending where Novac remains independent with the help of Brighton Followers sees the least people killed and the town still standing. Technically can be done with any ending, but I think it acts as a point for independence overall.
10. Primm can get a good ending whether the Courier fixes Primm Slimm or helps the NCR pacify the town
These ten points are taken JUST from the ending slides. If each positive impact the player can have was laid out, by the end you would have a picture of a Mojave that still struggles, but finally has a chance at becoming something more out from under the boot of some far-off regime. And that is why I like the Yes Man ending :)
Objective Answer: House Always Wins, Baby!
Emotional Answer: Death for eveyone!
While I don't disagree with anything you've said, I've always wondered how you would respond to the arguments made in _Courier's Mind._ Whether they hold water or not, he's certainly put a lot of thought into the case he makes against Mr. House.
czcams.com/video/LRRPwTI2fow/video.htmlsi=7XWCALnvvyUF-lcR
Regardless, your video alone has spurred me to do another playthrough of New Vegas. Great Job.
I think House represents a version of Caesar, in the sense that he's another very intelligent individual with an understanding of modern warfare & tactics, but he's also a megalomaniac driven by ego. A future of Vegas run by House is doomed to run into the same problems as the legion. House will inevitably have to turn more brutal to root out the enemies of his vision of humanity's future, and like the case posited by the youtube video you linked, I don't think he'd ever compromise with any wasteland faction on account of his old world ideology. No doubt, a future vegas run by House is a wasteland ruled by converted tribals the likes of the strip, just larger & heavily enforced by his robotically-imposed autocracy.
And just like the microcosm of the strip, I can't imagine that everyone who'd operate in that society would be happy & willing to have his leadership continue. It'd be a matter of time before another Yes-man style figure manifests to undo House's autocracy in an effort to take it for themselves.
Not to mention, just like Caesar in the game, I can't imagine House will live for another 100+ years without some serious medical intervention. The fact he hasn't developed a cancer at all is in and of itself, pretty surprising. What'll happen to the fragile weaponized peace when the leader dies suddenly, without a chain of command to follow?
Even if he isn't die from a medical miscalculation, House is not immune to yet another betrayal. The PC in NV can easily kill House. The idea that he'd be impervious to outside forces and disunity is a fragrant ego-driven dismissal. He is extremely vulnerable and can only truly succeed in NV with the help of the courier, or Benny. And Benny wants to betray House.
@@ahealthkit2745 No he's not Caesar. Compare what Caesar did to tribes, and what Mr. House did. Caesar channeled tribals to war and conquest. HOuse channeled towards creative building effort.
For me, the bigger problem for House that the TV Show brings is the fact that he's told that Vault-Tec may start the war themselves; it brings sever question to his blustering that he was able to calculate when the bombs would drop; and, if he lied about this, what else does he lie to the Courier about? I just cannot trust him or his merits, even if he seems benevolent on the face of it, because the perceived benevolence of the Autocrat has no bearing on how bad that autocrat is. He wants good for the people of the Mojave no more than the NCR; he simply extracts wealth via the strip rather than via taxes, and there's no option for eventual democratic representation under the dictatorship of House like there is the NCR. The flaws of the NCR can be fixed; the flaws of House cannot.
I do agree with many of your points here, but I think it's fair to bring up that House could've calculated the bombs dropping before that meeting, and only had his suspicions confirmed there. It's definitely odd that such meetings were never brought up in talking to the courier, but that's added lore which didn't exist in 2010, not a direct contradiction (which the show has a lot of already).
Either way I read Mr. House as a tech billionaire trying to sell you an elevator pitch, like Elon Musk and his bright ideas about nuking mars or the hyperloop. He can set these as goals, but it doesn't mean he actually has the know-how to get it done. After all, he's a businessman, not a scientist or engineer.
The show destroyed his character with one line, they also made Sinclair a less sympathetic character...I felt bad for him in Dead Money, but also applauded the fact he found out & fought back against her and Domino. As for the show, it removes his brilliance that he calculated and was slightly off when the bombs would fall and instead...he FORGOT?
@@TheImapotato Well they never set a time at that meeting, clearly even some Vault-tec officials weren't ready because Cooper's kid wasn't in the Vault at the time of the war. That said this is only speculation, these explanations aren't in the show yet, and might not ever be.
@@TheImapotatolike literally why? And also, Sinclair like Vera and the ghoul asshole we're all pretty much a bunch of completely petty people that couldn't let go their problems, none of them we're exactly people to feel something for except maybe Vera since she pretty much was used by both parts.
How can you call House a liar based on the show when it was released after the games and made by completely different people.
Are you mad? Whatever happens on the TV series is irrelevant to the game's discussion.
Bet the Enclave will be back. Hank MacLean and Vault 31 are a part of the Enclave or will try to re-establish the Enclave.
>yes man can reprogram himself so he doesnt have to listen to you
>NCR, Legion and House can also reprogram themselves to not listen to you
😂
NCR, Legion and House all have their own interests and ideals that are already spelled out. Yes Man's ideals are entirely just to follow the Courier. If Yes Man is reprogrammed we have no idea what his ideals would become.
@@astor2994 technically we do and thats based on the courier or house the only two people they can base their ideals on
Lokey feel like the courier would side with house
The Fallout show is not cannon to fallout 1,2 and new Vegas No matter what ye say on that perhaps cannon to fallout 3 and 4 The Master Will open open up all the new vaults in that show as well the boneyard got nuked not shady sands as well got a new name in new Vegas
I thought this video was made by a much bigger youtuber! Keep up the amazing quality bro, this video was a godsend of something to listen to while I work
I think the show confirmed that House was the winner, since he's already appeared in live action and Hank made his way to New Vegas. I can't see them casting House in one season only to say, "Yeah... he lived for 200 years, but then got killed by a disgruntled mailman."
Let’s goooo! Best game ever that is still being discussed which is better
I agree.
Mr.House is a Vtuber… I hate myself for that thought
I don’t see Todd’s bitter fanfic as canon
It just a fleeting dream just like the Choas Gods power in 40k.
Unable to be seen or proven. 😂
You haven't watched the show and only the videos on why it's bad have you?
Yes man is so tired bro it’s the worst ending stability wise
The fallout tv show is not part of the games
Sadly it is
It is cry some more kid
@@motionadapt1589 ?
It is have you not learned or do you just not want to here what you are against
@@DoomUvb the show is cannon anything you say won’t change that now stop crying
Yes Ma'am
The players who always choose Yes Man/Courier & think that is without question the best ending, IMHO always tend to be the ones who think they are morally superior, think speaking louder is making a 'point' & suffer from Dunning Krueger much like the writers of Fallout TV Show & Emil Pagliarulo. I was very pleased that the ending slide showed New Vegas turned into riots & the area was worse than before House woke up.
I've done them all with The Legion being done only once and House being the most. I think the Legion was not as fleshed out as they could have been as I saw only Security for caravans & law abiding citizens as their only plus
I choose House because he is the ultimate visionary & Libertarian with me as the Courier being the very small limited government helping non profit organizations such as the Followers to help the less fortunate
Too bad the TV show destroyed House's character with one line "There is great profit at the end of the world" (WTF?!?) & will bury their murder of the NCR in Season Two
Yes Man is looking better each day :p
Also from my experience that the House players, they just listen to what he says without aruging it, since House said it.
Like yes he is smart.. but he is also the guy who almost lost it all cuz he didnt get amazon prime shipping twice.
Or how to entice and form loyal bonds for most workers.
I mostly choose Yes Man because i really don't like all the pros and cons of all the other factions so i prefer to just let the people of the Mojave do their shit in peace, that's all, Yes Man can do the hard mental and administrative labor for me while i just go to get problems done with securitrons, the whole riots and shit sound mostly an try hard way of Obsidian to make the Yes Man Ending less good but whatever it's my army, my Mojave, my New Vegas (oh yeah, i like the Bad Karma Yes Man Ending)
Basically I agree with the guy above me. I'll add that the end slides show the short term consequences, but long term who knows what will happen to an independent Mojave. I'd love if some sort of Buddha or Jesus came to the Mojave in the same way it did in history.
@@Subject_Keter Except if you go for Yes Man's ending you essentially rely on House's calculations and everything he's built to make his next move. Its very hypocritical to dismiss house, yet use his securitron army and his calculations for your own ends.
Can I have the honor of conquering the land of California,
George Washington has no experience establishing a country, while the British have an empire. And that's why the British are the most qualified faction and should rule America.
House is the only leader with even a hint of patriotism. The others have egos and armies. Jingoism and imperialism are not patriotic. Patriotism is altruistic. Nationalism is egotistical. House is not perfect, but he is the only one who could benefit anyone.
Well with the fallout show now out we will finally see what the canon ending to new Vegas is
Caesar did nothing wrong
Cesar’s Legion doesn’t have a problem with sustainability, it actually has a solution for long term sustainability. From an outside perspective, Cesar comes across as a power hungry maniac but when you think about it from his point of view he’s simply doing what must be done at all costs to achieve his “Pax Romana.”
I used to think the Legion was the worst choice but now that I have a better understanding of his thoughts, it’s perhaps the best choice.
Though there are things I disagree with that the legion does I think it’s baseline ideology makes the most sense which is essentially ridding the world of all things that pull people apart and instead, bringing everyone together for the common good of the collective and not the individual.
Isn't that the same goal the Master from Fallout 1 had? Hell, you could interpret it as the Enclave's goal as well, in a roundabout way. The Legion might not be interested in forcibly mutating everyone or just outright exterminating them, but they hold the same baseline belief that difference = conflict. What the Legion advocates for is cultural genocide along with murder and slavery to achieve that end.
Would be nice if Ceaser didnt turn all his followers into brainless drones and tried to raise some enough to take his place eventually. But happening to run into someone who A. Didnt die to them B. Got beaten or broken into a Slave and C. Happens to be perfect at leading like Lanius was at fighting.
Ya no he a dunce.
I think the long term argument against the Legion would have to be what happens after Caesar's death?
To quote Joshua Graham, "I think only Caesar can lead the Legion. I've never met anyone who could take his place. I couldn't. I never had a mind for logistics."
To my eyes, I think Caesar would have too much ego to prepare an heir or accept the possibility of death, and there would be a sharp collapse in Legion upon his death.
@@astor2994 that is perhaps the single biggest flaw Caesar faces. Caesar himself has the intelligence and patients to see his plans through but he hasn’t exactly surrounded himself with people who share the same abilities. The only logical replacement would be Lanius and Lanius certainly doesn’t see things the same way as Caesar.
@@astor2994Its not like Caesar is unaware of this flaw...
He wants the Vegas to reform the legion, from what it is currently.
He needs to live to implement new laws that will begin transition of Legion from an army without a state to an actual state.
The new TV show is garbage solely on the grounds that it magically wipes the NCR off of the map
If you were paying attention there were still NCR members in the show like the Vault 4 cultists and Moldaver's platoon, they just splintered and have less influence over the Shady Sands area.
The reason why they couldn't afford to recolonize the areas near Shady is because getting your capital city nuked to high heaven right after the Mojave campaign, a campaign which left your army spread too thin and that which they most likely lost, would leave them crippled enough to push back their borders
@@impadop4578 if you were using any critical thinking at all, you'd be thinking about what was happening off screen. If they're stretched so thin, from the Mojave to the waste of shady sands to the northern and southern frontiers, then they definitely were hurt in more places than shady sands. Their loss against the brotherhood wouldn't be the only loss. They will lose land on all fronts, chipped away constantly so they can't reorganize and recover. The NCR is going to be irreparably crippled from this, and effectively taken off the board as a major player.
If the people around them *don't* immediately smell weakness and jump in, that's just bad writing and completely unrealistic of the cutthroat world of fallout
legion or house i prefer legion as although horrific they let people govern themselves so long as they obey their laws in fact the lore vs what we see is massively different unfortunately.there were members of them that were more than slaves or brainwashed foot soldiers its a honestly a damn shame that much of what i like about the legion you have to actually look for and never really get to see.” as overall there not really that horrible aside from a bit of sexism and even that’s not fully true as there leader doesn’t exactly adhere to that more so he needs warm body’s to fill the ranks in many ways.my only concern for them is there mistrust of technology but even then they do have a point as it didn’t end well for the world ultimately and overall corruption is basically none existent for the most part within them and everyone even the hi ranking officers are held accountable cant say that about most civilizations.also everything is for the legion but they only punish people who get in there way although they are a bit arrogant it kinda makes sense as id distrust outsiders and see them as week too given most legion soldiers can kill you with a fucking knife and will go right at you often resulting in people running away from shock and fear so ya in a way they are not wrong also readers and crime don’t exist under them and you will be punished hard for any crime and i am totally down for that and largely they are completely able to take care of themselves down to the individual level on most occasions compare that to a normal wasteland asshole or the useless NCR and it becomes abundantly clear they don’t need outside help although they will take advantage of it if it cones along.are they cruel?to anyone who fucks up or gets in there way of life ya.are they the monsters most make them out to be?not so much in my opinion although they are harsh as fuck. Also if you side with the enemy you are the enemy its not complicated. 14:49
Just ignore the show. It doesn't even make sense within itself, much less the wider world.
b-but muh headcanon anarchist vegas...