How to Design a Good Puzzle Level in Super Mario Maker 2!
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- Puzzle stages are by far the most difficult levels to design in Super Mario Maker 2. Normal Super Mario Maker 2 levels are just so much easier to playtest, to design and to get working than puzzles are. But playing a great designed puzzle stage in Super Mario Maker 2 is also one of the most rewarding experiences out there.
But what does a good Super Mario Maker 2 puzzle stage actually look like, how do we design great puzzles, what are some traps to avoid, and most of all, how do we even approach designing a single puzzle in the first place? In this video we are going to take a closer look at how to create great puzzle stages in Super Mario Maker 2.
--- Super Mario Maker 2 Level shown in the Video:
The Dangerous Deku Tree
007-KWC-6NG
-------------------Credits for the Music-------------------------
Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga OST - Teehee Valley
Super Mario Sunshine OST - Bianco Hills
------Holfix
/ holfix
HolFix - Beyond The Kingdom
• [Free Music] HolFix - ...
------Kevin MacLeod
"Adventure Meme", “The Builder”, “Amazing Plan”
Kevin MacLeod incompetech.com
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
creativecommons.org/licenses/b... - Hry
Petition for Nintendo to add Ceave’s “Hooray” sound effect into the game.
Pls yes
Huooray
Signed
Signed
Youve got my vote
When it comes down to it, troll levels are just puzzle levels with a bit of deception and a lot of death,
Troll levels are levels that teach (or communicate) an idea* to the player and lets them execute it, but then punish them with death.
Since this scheme is well by now, there is also the possiblity of a double bluff, where the player sees that he is tought something, then thinks he needs to do the opposite, but that was actually what the creator expected them to do and they get punished by death anyway. :P
* A classic example being a thwomp running towards you. The player has the idea to run away or jump over it, when the actual solution would be to stand still, because a magical seesaw will appear out of nowhere and push the thwomp away.
I think the biggest difference between a puzzle level and a troll level, is that in a puzzle level the solution should be in plain sight, albeit hard to understand. Whereas in a troll level the solution should be invisible and impossible to understand. In both cases, the solution should be easy to execute, though.
aknopf
building on that, Troll levels make you learn through death. Which is often used in some older games. You find the solution through dying multiple times.
And lots of shit sound effects
I like your premise but I would modify it with one word: good. "Good troll levels are just puzzle levels..." I would also add that good troll levels tend to base their mechanics on reversals, reversing the idea of what a level normally does, then more advanced troll levels come along and reverse the expectations of what previous troll levels did, etc... These things tend towards levels with a lot of death, but death is not required for a good troll level, I've seen troll levels with reset doors for example.
Yeah. I played a troll level once, and it ended up being fun, which I wasn't expecting. What I learned from that is learning from death and expectation subversion can be fun when used properly.
I remember how giddy I was every time I completed a puzzle, and it really taught me something: It's okay to have a hard point in a stage that seems unfair, but it should be easy to get back to when you die and be easy to get past when you figure it out.
2:18
*OBJECTION!*
This puzzle's _design_ is actually perfect.
There is an obvious problem(door is too high), an obvious solution (the spring), and something confounding the obvious solution (the spring is too far away to use).
If a player didn't already know that Mario can carry springs, this would be the perfect way to teach that mechanic to the player; games like _Baba Is You_ and _The Witness_ are full of these incredibly simple puzzles to establish basic mechanics in a way that will prime the player to look back on them in later puzzles.
The problem is that by this point in the Super Mario series, most players are already going to be aware of this simple fact, so the puzzle appears tedious. It can, however, be used as part of a series of escalating 'carry the spring' puzzles.
However, even then, this puzzle can still serve a purpose!
If the next room involved a labyrinthine death trap with a seemingly inconsequential spring by the entrance, the player would be much more likely to assume that they need to carry that spring to the end of said death trap without further prompting. This innocuous little puzzle therefore makes it that much easier to iterate on a theme of 'carry the spring' in a series of puzzles because of that simple priming mechanic.
I love the mention of other puzzle games, and their design.
Teaching a player what to do without explicitly telling them is key for game design, so you got that right.
Good puzzle.
Cue the cornered theme
Or teaching a simple but unknown macanic can be taught used later in the level and can reward the player if they do it not to progress but to be curious
Do you know aliensrock? Just asking, because you mentioned Baba Is You and the Witness which he happened to play
@@aa01blue38
Never heard of them; I'm just very fond of puzzle games, and those two titles happen to have some very distinctive design elements.
Two things I wish would be done by every puzzle maker: 1)do not require knowledge from outside the level (glitch or mechanic you didn't teach). 2) no soft locks (make wrong answers reset-able).
@@mahbubmaleksyed5301 No, make horrible antisoftlocks.
It's OK to ignore the first point in Uno Más levels since the player is likely to solve the level accidentally quite quickly.
To make a good level resetable isnt easy you know
@@mahbubmaleksyed5301 then it's a troll level, not a puzzle level. A troll level can have puzzles but that doesn't make a puzzle level.
@@psuedonym9999 if the level teaches you what to do it complies with point 1 even using glitches. It only violates point 1 if it requires a glitch that you are not taught within the level.
There was only one Suprisingly Simple on this episode:
10:57
F X2
We have a new jet eriksen
Yes
Like number 100
The episode is Surprisingly Complicated
from now on I’m calling school an “evil learning chamber”
Me too
It always was
NOO
6:25 is the time stamp
Exactly 5 Lemons What are you learning though?
"Remember something puzzles" are what I love so much about Zelda games. It's always so cool when you get the next item from a dungeon and see what it does, and then you're trying to remember all the places in the world you've seen where you can use the new item to get various treasure. Link to the Past is one of my favorites, and I still remember some of those moments, like getting the flippers and then trying to remember everywhere you might be able to get heart pieces now that you can swim.
"When link got added, puzzle levels started to *SPIKE* up"
aaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH
You are the Sans of Mario Maker…
AYYYY
*applause*
Eevee Master lol
Next “how to design a good troll level”
That's easy!
BananaFana he said good troll level. Good ones are really hard to make
@@Hehe-nt4oe OK, I admit that those are hard to make, but, it's not _That_ hard
BananaFana no hitting a kaizo block and falling to your death, hidden blocks with keys, or powerups that are a softlock.
I’d say a “good” troll level is one that’s creative with its trolling
*Have someone playtest your puzzles!*
For you, it might look simple, because you *made* the puzzle, you know the solution. But for someone else, it could take them ages due to errors in the puzzle, or it's too confusing, or it's too complicated...
Thank you for making a thoughtful comment that added to the video and not begging for likes, asking who else is watching in the same year as you, or spamming overused memes.
Wow, good job *literally quoting ceave*
them -> whom
Hi Ceave! I hope you are well, and I hope those real-life problems get solved! Take your time, please! I love your videos!
Me everytime Ceave uploads:
HOORAY!
@Titouan R lol, nice one!
@King Furio it's fine! The more the merrier!
Yeah its rate enought
Holy Fuzzy!!
Then you rarely go hooray
It feels like it has been so long since we have had a Ceave video
Its been a month
Peter yeaman same
It’s been a month sence his last vid.
Feels like he didn't upload since the last decade
It's been a decade
3:11 Well this escalated quickly.
I absolutely love this video. It is a systematic and rigorous approach to something many creators feel is unapproachable, and is a wonderful dive into not just how creators make puzzles (although that as well), but what a puzzle itself is.
Hooray count: 5
Total so far: 332
you mad lad
Am I the only one who noticed how scratchy Ceave's voice was. Hope you're feeling ok Ceave :(
I noticed too, I just hope that he’s only tired ):,
Probably has something to do with the real life puzzles he mentioned at the end.
I didn’t
I just noticed when you said that
Ceave Gaming: where every question is eternal.
Nice catch on the fall back line!
13:36 "but after a while our arrow-shooting not-a-plumber" ceave i absolutely love the way you call things
Teacher: The test isn't that complicated
The test: 3:13
It’s surprisingly simple
Children who are not good brain: *D A F U Q*
What I would also classify as a noteworthy puzzle would be the 'seemingly impossible puzzle'. You are given a very obvious and easy solution to a problem (An on-off-block needs to be triggered to disable a red wall blocking the path to a door) however trying to solve it that way causes another problem (Triggering the on-off-block activates a blue wall, trapping you near the on-off-block). Solving one problem causes the other, making it seemingly impossible to solve the puzzle. The solution generally is to trigger the main mechanism from a distance (Using a shell against the on-off-block near the red wall at the door).
Hey Ceave! I'd like to start off with a huge thank you for this video in particular. It's helped me in a pretty unexpected way.
I've actually never played Mario Maker... Or any Mario game for that matter. But I've always watched your content for you delivery and explanations.
For the past week, I've been stuck on how I should start a puzzle game I'm working on. I just couldn't crack how I should frame my game elements so that they could be expanded upon easily. The way you lay it out here is exactly what I needed though - Viewing things not as unique puzzles every time, but as clearly defined nodes, that have a problem and a solution, locks and keys.
I'll be sure to give a little bit of credit to you if I some how get far enough in this for that to matter :)
So is now the game programmed. Ya i waited for a year to ask this
* I started to lose brain cells at 03:15
F
F
F
F
Dude, I played Undertale just before watching this video.
0:24 "Basically, the arrival of Link, caused a *spike* in puzzle levels."
I'm not sure if that was a pun or not.
Hey Ceave just want to say that your level in SMM2 was absolutely amazing and that it must've been very hard to make it AND the vid. I can't imagine the work you put into these masterpieces!
Ceave when mario maker 3 has both fuzzies and coin throwing sledge bros: I won... But at what cost?
6 years since og mario maker prob
As someone who recently started making puzzle stages, this video helped a lot in giving me ideas for future levels! I just want to find a way to implement some of those ideas in unique ways so that the puzzles feel fresh and not like something anyone's played hundreds of times before.
I played a great puzzle level recently, where it introduced a central mechanic (icicles breaking bricks), and slowly added more and more mechanics, such as p-switches, on-off blocks, and munchers. It slowly became more complex to keep your attention while at the core staying at a consistent theme
9:18 - 9:23 I'm pretty sure that this would create a black hole
And then there's Celeste where executing the solution is arguably the more fun part and stays relevant after knowing the puzzle already.
Ceave, the reason I love your videos is the thinking and explanation process, and I believe a lot of others do so too, but I've not seen anyone voice it.
The way you think about things and analyze them - breaking up the way puzzle levels are created, the types, how to chain things, etc. - is super good to help others learn. I love and do so myself, but not with games; here I see all of this applied within a game, as a way to make it more fun and enjoyable, and I think that is great.
You also structure the videos in a really nice way, so they are logical, there is a progression, so it really teaches you something (if you let it), which not many people know how to do. Plenty creators can make great levels but they would not be able to explain it just as well, or it's just a lot of figuring out and randomness, but I like to see this thought process.
So, thanks for the great content! I love thinking about things and figuring them out and explaining them, and I really appreciate the quality your videos have.
(Yes, I just analyzed your video where you analyze stuff haha. That's what I do lol.)
I almost forgot how fun your videos are, keep up the great work.
Lot of people got their video’s demonetized for saying “bombs”
Exploding Devices
Just say "items that due to chemical reactions, pressure or other reasons create a large shock wave and release a high quantity of energy"
@@ejsowden9075 ok
*boomers*
Pocket Loud Boomy Machines
~ LIST OF THE DIFFERENT PUZZLE TYPES ~
This vid is amazing, but I've noticed it's hard to remember these examples, so here they are in a list! :D Also, there are tips at the bottom, be sure to read em! Also this is pretty simplified, so be sure to watch Ceave's vid to get a good idea of what each of these are: I'm just making this so it's easier to remember them.
~
Basic Puzzle: Simple problem, simple solution
~
Complex Puzzle: Many simple problems with many simple solutions
~
Learn Something: Have the player learn something like a mechanic they likely won't know about, or a mechanic you add, such as the bowser statue switch example! (6:05)
~
Notice Something: Have the player notice something in the room, such as a vine in the corner! (7:20) Try adding "noise" (a lot of distracting decorations) to improve on this, or make it more difficult.
~
Escort Something: Have the player escort something, like a spike ball. This can also have other puzzles added to it, like with the bullet blaster "learn something" puzzle added in the example at 9:05! You can also try stringing multiple escorts together to unlock something! (eg: a boss key)
~
Remember Something: Have the player remember something from earlier! Eg: having to remember the location of an on/off switch after retrieving an item later! (10:11)
~
Sequence Something: Have the player do things in the right order to solve the puzzle! Eg: having the player drop down items in the right order! (10:36)
~
Spatial Awareness: Test the player's understanding of how different parts of the stage interact with each other. eg: The player sees a room where he can't do anything but leave, but then, later on, he gets the required item to do something in this room! (12:41) These are somewhat similar to "remember something" puzzles.
~
Not-a-Puzzle Puzzles: A problem where the player has to realize it, but where it barely requires any thinking (the puzzle does all the work) Eg: Triggering an on/off block to build a bridge! (13:51)
~
Problem Chaining: Just like with "complex" puzzles, you string multiple puzzles together to make one awesome puzzle! This time, instead of chaining simple puzzles, chain the ones above! eg: A puzzle which requires both spatial awareness and sequencing! (15:01)
~~~
Tips: MAKE PUZZLES EASY TO EXECUTE! The fun in a puzzle is in figuring it out, so if it's tedious or slow, try to do something like putting a checkpoint at the end or making it faster if you know what to do- otherwise, it gets really annoying to do the same difficult thing over and over when you already know how to do it. THESE AREN'T THE ONLY WAYS TO MAKE PUZZLES! These are only a couple ideas! WATCH THE VID AND WATCH CEAVE'S OTHER STUFF! I'm not just saying this bc I'm a fan of Ceave, he talks about many different aspects of Mario Maker that can help a lot in designing your puzzles! eg, mechanisms which can help you create your own thins for the player to learn, or different ways to make not-a-puzzle puzzles look cooler.
~~~
I hope this guide helped you, and helped you remember what was in the video! :D
thank u so much!
14:51 Awesome ancient headgear
I love the music you use and your vids, keep up the good work
Ceave please upload more, I really missed your helpful mario maker videos
I don't own the game or the system, yet I still enjoy these videos. I'm
Puzzled.
Not sorry.
Nice video! Haven't made a puzzle stage yet, but will try at some point. Good luck with the extra-ordinary real-life puzzles!
Thanks for this video! It really inspired me to try and make cool puzzle levels!
CZcams is giving ceave the recognition he deserves
*demonitised for saying 'bombs'*
No algorithm can give Ceave the recognition he deserves.
I don't even play the game anymore but when ceave uploads I'm so happy anyway
I really like it if a one-room puzzle chain mini-problems together in a good way. You really put this whole concept very well into words.
I've been scratching my head over my newest dungeon for days, this was perfect, thx!
3:55
All I see are “problem ▶️” and “Solution ▶️”
Drop what you're doing.
Ceave uploaded.
Spaceturtle 8008 Hello person I’ve never seen befor how are you
@@marrimars Even if you were not talking to me, i will still answer! i am doing fine, how about you?
Eat dorrito.
When phone ring....
-Club Penguin is kil- Ceave gaming just uploaded.
-No- Yes!
Never seen people comment this kind of thing about their favorite CZcamsrs before.
@@Chad_Eldridge what do you mean?
This level took me an hour to beat. Nice work!
Thank you so much for all these ideas!!!
Me When Ceave Uploaded After Ages:
*holy fuzzy*
I was literally wondering when he was going to upload again
I know, right?
And the answer to that is surprisingly simple: Today q:
Like literally
Happy New Year, Ceave! Hooooray for the start of a new decade.
Im surprisingly hypet to watch this video :D Best MM2 Videos on CZcams :3
Ceave: *everything is an eternal question, even if it is a second old*
And the answers are always surprisingly simple.
3:08 seems legit...👍
It is always good to see a new Ceave Gaming video.
Thank you for sharing another fun video.
Much love buddy. You make the Mario maker community better. Hope your real life problems solve themselves quickly!
Here's an interesting puzzle that I haven't figured out myself yet:
The grocery store is 10 minutes away from our home. My dad went to buy some cigarettes 11 years ago.
Now here's the question: Where are you, dad?
probably in my basement
Josh?
Papa?
was i the only one who was confused as hell when he was referring to link as "she"?
@@Dinoman972 He does say "the player" whenever he starts using "she". Later, he refers to Link rather than the player, and uses "he". It does make more sense to refer to a hypothetical player as "they" rather than "he" or "she".
Maybe Ceave is in university? In academic papers it is usual to refer to hypothetical persons as "she".
Isn't it Legends of Zelda?
Maybe it's Linkle...
@@cube2fox I thought that "one" was considered proper. Gender neutral, doesn't use singular "they." At least, that's what my dual enrollment English teacher wants.
Great video as always ceave. You ‘re the best
Ceave! I missed your videos!!!! Welcome back!!!!
Amazing job as always!
It would be awesome to see another LevelHead video regarding the same topics you talk about in SMM videos :D
**sees video in recommended**
Me: meh, I'll just add it to watch later.
**sees it's Ceave Gaming**
Me: MUST WATCH NOW
Does anyone know how to put asterisks in a comment without it being bolded?
@@awesomness6775 iirc spaces doesn't * format *
@@MinePlayersPE yeah, but then it looks weird. I wanted the asterisks touching the text.
I heard that "\*" puts a an asterisk, but as you can see, it doesn't.
Never seen this kind of comment before...
I learned a lot from this video. Thanks Ceave!
What a great video! Thank you so much!
He's alive!
"Small" puzzle dungeon
This is the video I’ve been waiting for for years
This is a really cool video! I am defenitly gone a try this out.
3:05 So you're becoming a rapper now?
"or, you know... math"
you monster
Thank you so much for making this video! I love puzzles but I’m no good at making them so I’m going to use this as a reference a lot lol
Just found your channel! Very cool. I love Zelda puzzle levels so thank you
When I saw that Ceave uploaded a video, I clicked immediately and I had a huge stupid smile on my face
Liked the Video before it had even started with my big smile still on my face.
I’m not first
and I’m not last,
but when Ceave uploads,
I click fast.
I hope you'll make tips and tricks videos with the new items and enemies added in Mario Maker 2. I love your videos!
This video is wonderful. Thank you, Ceave!
So you made a randomisation level once...
Could you make a randomizing puzzle?
I feel like there's not much "puzzle" in randomized levels. The randomization randomly generates what you'll experience in a level, regardless of what that experience is; it's a process that creates a unique experience, not in and of itself a puzzle.
If you're talking about a particular puzzle where all the elements are randomized, HAHAHA, you're kidding, right? Puzzles require a lot of time and effort into making them even decent; randomly displaying a lot of different elements seems like a really messy way of generating a level, unless it's a high quality randomization game like Enter the Gungeon (I'm assuming it's high quality, I haven't played it) or a Zelda or Mario randomized, which are made so that, no matter how it's randomized, it's never made impossible by crappy placement. Even then, Zelda and Mario randomizers aren't exactly what one would call "clean" design, because they look and function rather flimsily sometimes. But in Mario Maker... eh, I don't really know, I haven't played around with randomization in that game all too much. Ceave could definitely make an interesting guide, no doubt, but I think such levels would probably require more work than non-randomized levels. Then again, Ceave puts far more work into this game than most people would even think of doing, so I'm sure that's just normal for him.
Ceave when he does any challenge video:
Yes it is TRULY impossible....
....unless...?
This is an amazing video with a pretty exhaustive list of the types of SMM2 puzzles that I have seen. There is one type of puzzle level that you didn't exactly mention (it is exceedingly rare in Mario Maker 2, but I guess you could consider it as part of the "Notice Something" category) is the type where the solution is short and obvious, but when executing the solution something unexpected happens that stops progress. Basically, you need a specific something in order to move forward, but if you do that something then you can't move forward. It's one of the most mind-bending things, and it usually requires noticing something which doesn't change the overall solution except for the one thing that halts progress. It is also usually mixed with "noise" (or as I have been calling it; obfuscation), so that's another reason I guess it could fit in the "Notice Something" category, but I felt it's worth mentioning.
amazing video, very creative as always :)
10:13 Except it _is_ reachable, with a well cooked exploding device.
Looks like I'm sitting on the toilet for 16 minutes
I’m a game dev and watching your videos actually give me so many ideas and inspiration for making more video games xD
Awesome video! Now I want to go make some puzzles myself. I hope your IRL puzzles are solved soon, Ceave.
Video got recommended before it even showed up in my notifications.
CZcams pls
That happens to me very often.
So do i
3:07 this could be a question in a math test XD
*visible confusion*
I love your videos they are the best!
Yay I’ve found your channel again!
2:36 "Several [surprisingly] simple problems"
If you're still stumped about how to make a good puzzle I suggest you watch "what makes a good puzzle" by game makers tool kit. It goes over more general tips for how to make better puzzles. Another good thing to keep in mind when designing any level for mario maker is that knowing basic principles of game design helps a lot as making a good mario maker level essentially a micro version of making a game
Holy fuzzy, you're back!
I love your video's thanks for the awesome tips ❤️ (:
“The key to solving “notice something” puzzles is to...
*file with HR block.* “
Hmm
Yes
The floor here is made out of floor
3:53 The amount of arrows here makes this look like a clickbait CZcams thumbnail or a conspiracy theory, and the thing is, Ceave is crazier than a conspirator
Hi again
Christopher Moon justin y’s alt account
Hope your reality puzzles are surprisingly simple to solve. Good luck to you, and whatever is happening, I hope you can still make great Mario maker levels and CZcams content!
I love these kinds of videos
Is it my thing or Ceave's voice sound an 80% less active than always?
The amount of puzzle levels just doubled
From 1 to 2!
Nice vid
Really interesting, Thank you
:)
No matter what video Ceave makes, it makes may day better.