Ludwig Addresses Atrioc, Deepfakes of Streamers | Asmongold Reacts
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
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Agree with asmon, we don't really treat celebrities like people, there's no way we'll treat streamers as people, they are basically internet celebrities anyway.
@DeathNikki This is almost exactly how most streamers view their audience though. Faceless cash registers. Most of these streamers have thousands of viewers, whom they know almost none of them, and interact with them minimally.
@DeathNikki I think the best example of this is that PewDiePie stream where people saw his tag and added him and he lost his shit lol.
I thought quite a bit on this but yeah, as soon as you are a celebrity, you lose the right to complain about this(the sexualizing of their person) imo. Even if there is no deepfake, as another female streamer said there is some dude jerking off to female celebs' necks. Deepfake should probably be classed as parody, a convincing parody but parody none the less.
But it becomes a problem when deepfakes show people doing crimes, so I think before it gets to that, it should be banned. Not even allowed to be consented.
@@mrlacksoriginality4877 m
@@sygmarvexarion7891 doesn't make it any more right my dude, these celeb are still people ya feel me?
I agree with like 99% of what is being said here, but there is just this one part of the debate that I really dislike. And its the whole mentality behind how men can't be sexualized. Like Ludwigs take about "If a mans balls get leaked its cool, while if a womens breasts gets leaked a bunch of *men* jack off" Like, excuse me? Do women not jack off, have gay people left the planet? Sure balls are not the most attractive part of the body, but either way, someone is going to. Didn't Ludwig have his balls leaked and a bunch of people sexualized it?
If a part of a persons body gets leaked out there, or deepfaked against their consent its messed up. It doesn't matter what gender, and to me it doesn't matter that it happens mostly to women, the key thing is that it happens. And I think excluding men from the topic as a whole is really not ok. This whole "Its mostly men that are the perpetrator" and "It's mostly woman that are the victims" mentality needs to end. In the end of it, its humans being hurt by humans. The gender does not matter, and making it matter does 3 things:
1; As Asmon says it dehumanizes people. All of a sudden you're no longer a person, you're a man, and a man is X, Y and Z which are all bad and you should feel bad for that ( using man in this example as its the one being used in the topic ) This is why you see people react with "Not all men" People are hurt when you say that its "mostly men" People are vulnerable, and that turns into defence, anger, sadness. And is that okay?
2; It excludes people from being a victims, all of a sudden you're not supposed to feel bad for having your body part leaked, because when men get their balls leaked its "cool"
3; It excludes people from being perpetrators, oh a woman would never jack off to someones leaked breasts, woman are too pure for that. ( Again, using woman as the example here because of the topic )
I write this because I personally feel the hurt that comes with a topic like this, the hurt that supposedly my gender is bad because, well its mostly men is it not? Instead of its always bad people. And that hurt turns into, anger, anger I try hard not to act on. But in the end it mostly just turns to dissociation. Not wanting to be part of the topic, caring neither for the people hurting or those hurt, because it just makes me feel like shit. So why bother? This is why I think it' so important to not specify a group of people as perpetrators, because there will always be someone i that group that gets pushed away, or even worse, pushed into becoming a perpetrator.
The way we phrase things, matter.
To wrap up, I want to say that I'm truly sorry to everyone who has gotten a picture of them leaked, photoshopped, deepfaked, you name it. Your pain, anger, sadness, frustration, dysmorphia is valid. This is not something you should have to worry about, and I'm sorry that you've had to go through that. I wish you nothing but the best, and hope you're able to feel safe, take care of yourself.
I like when asmon covers serious topics because it's a nice reminder for him to see that a good chunk of his audience is cancer.
Yeah holy cow this comment section is insane
For real. The people who can defend these actions are people who are ok with - and have probably already considered/committed - r@pe. Plain and simple. That shouldn't shock anyone, considering how often that crime is committed
Deepfakes are fine. Sexualizing people without consent is not. And deepfaking people as propaganda is not consensual either in a similar way.
His viewers need to be force-watched Dr. K's deepfake video.
@@greenburg2276 define sexualizing.
In response to not "sexualizing people without their consent", this treads into thoughtcrime. I should be able to imagine whoever I want however I want--we all know no one is going around asking women "do you mind if I fantasize about you". This "sexualizing people without their consent" seems to only be a problem when someone's imagination can be easily made manifest and shared with others. If these women want anyone to actually give a fuck, they should approach it from the very legitimate "profiting on my likeness without permission" angle, which I would assume is backed by the right to legal ownership of one's personal likeness, rather than some half-baked appeal to morals which would, on the face of it, advocate for censoring one's own thoughts from oneself.
This is the real world presentation of this situation. I'm rather shocked this take isn't more common.
Honestly pretty levelheaded comment.
there cannot be a moral stand when they use the platform which also has hottub streams
@@holoceneevent4534 Those women are consenting to it at that point but congrats on missing the bigger picture here.
Libertarians trying to not look insane mission impossible.
I thought using someone’s likeness for commercial gain was already illegal in most states
Ya but if he isn't selling the videos nothing you can do. Like I could make a t shirt of your face but if I'm not selling them you can't really do anything.
@@bob999yaitis but they are selling them, not individually but he bought a subscription membership
Other country's exist btw
@Shylogik if they pay for the service to make it, they aren't buying the art, just funding the site. So, even in this instance, it was buying and selling it would be one quick tweak to make it fully legal
Yeah even if there isn’t a subscription model, if there were ads the videos would be commercial.
Probably the douchiest but positive comment I saw "All the hot streamers have onlyfans already, why pay for deep fakes?"
The most deepfaked ones are the ones that don't have onlyfans.
The front page of that page that Atrioc was on had SweetAnita, Maya, Pokimane and a few others.
None of them do sexual content at all. Hell, 90% of the time Maya is wearing overalls and heavy clothes because she runs an animal rescue.
At the end of the day, dipshits that pay for this stuff are motivated by wanting something they can't get.
except maya. she's a good girl.
inb4 "i said 'hot' streamers."
@DeathNikki what? That can't be true... wtf
@@z0ttel89 it's not true, guy just made that up on the spot which is quite weird
@@z0ttel89 you seriously not very bright if you believed that
What makes streamers different than Actors in terms of hate and mental health is that your fans have 100% access to you and you interact with them on a daily basis throughout your work hours non stop. actors get critics and reviews and stuff but most time never interact with them.
Also, they intentionally embrace their negative reactions to make their content more interesting.
@@JohnDoe-tj8rq yeahh it's gotta take it's toll tbh, everyone thinks its a dream job ( and its a pretty dope one dont get me wrong ) but its not all rainbows, look at nikocado for example, that whole trainwreck is such a messy situation
exactly
This makes none of them a victim. if any of them feels they were wronged in any way they can take legal action if the case makes sense.
I hate how streamers and the twitch community act suprised about this stuff, realistically their all doing weird shit that most people would wince at. Everytime someone gets exposed everyone just points a finger and makes content out of it.
Only the ones with the most deviant fetishes are screaming the loudest during such reveals. As if it's going to hide their own inhuman desires.
Thats not just streamers, thats human beings in general. Only difference is that streamers reactions are open to public...
@40:33 is kinda where I broke out of Asmon's influence lmfao. I respect the dude as a gamer, but what a terrible take on piracy. You absolutely can take a moral standpoint on piracy. Netflix movies and shows for example. Netflix's subscription has more than doubled in price since 2013, and the reality privileged people like Asmon seem to have forgotten in their come-ups is that most people are poor, and can hardly afford to live. To the majority of people viewing a stream, for example, being hit with 3 back-to-back-to-back one minute ads is enough to lose their attention, but they can't afford a sub, and gifts aren't guaranteed.
@@cruzjacknife8699 if people are poor their focus shouldn't be on a netflix sub
I mean this happens to Celebs for years... i just dont know how u can be suprised about it if u have millions of followers lol
Man, this whole debacle would make for a great segment of Wins and Fails
he became the very thing he swore to report on.
I think people don't even think about how far deep fakes can be taken and how much damage they can cause. Imagine deep faking someone saying or doing something that is incredibly damaging or even incriminating and what that could cause.
That wouldn't cause anything since you could prove it's a deep fake
I feel like it would cause the opposite of what people think. I feel like rather than convict innocent people they'd haft to accept that video evidence is no longer viable since you can fake it
@@donut_42 ooooooook? What's that have to do with deep fakes
@Donut of Doom you do realize you have to prove that in court right.... as soon as they use ai footage as "proof" they get locked up for a false rape accusation....
@@theninja2k14 ai can determine if it's made by ai or not, no matter how good it gets.
"y'all gotta stop doing this"
"use another pc"
bro, not what i expected him to say
That kinda joke is Literally what Asmon does tho
Pretty sure he meant use a different PC for all personal things, not use a different PC to look up deepfakes.
@@Honerkamp it indeed is, yet i was somehow still caught off guard
@@ProjctAce331 Exactly that is why it is funny.
@@xDarkTrinityx but if you do, at least be smart about it
Schrodinger: I can prove a flaw in the Copenhagen Method
Everybody: So you are saying there is a magic cat?
😂 Meow meow.
The fact that people were bugging Ludwig to make a comment on the whole situation when his girlfriend was one of the people involved is just sad.
Sure he could have made a full on rage video when he was in a bad head space but he prioritised comforting the person close to him when they needed it which was the most important thing to him at the time. Obviously I don't know QT personally but from what I've seen of her I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted him to go in guns blazing either.
His entire response was measured and focused on the important thing instead of making it all about his personal feelings.
Like really? People don't think... =[
the more drama the more entertainment. Pretty simple, anyone saying it's for other reasons is just straight up lying
Comparing to photoshop is much more realistic than drawing. Photoshopping celebrities onto bodies has been happening for 30 years. Atrioc said that it wasn't any of the people he knew personally, so to him the streamers might as well be famous people he doesn't know. No one has ever cared about Anya Taylor Joy getting her face photoshopped onto naked pictures. Also, everyone is talking about "girls should be allowed to consent" and Atrioc in the same conversation, which frankly, are 2 completely different conversations. Anyone can touch themselves to just real pictures or videos of their friends, that doesn't require consent lol.
Are you justifying it though?
@@alocalstalker3231 It doesn't matter, he's right. All the arguments against deepfakes have been levied against photoshop and the world didn't outlaw photoshop, the reason this is a big deal is because people who aren't used to being targeted are now realizing how easy it is to be a target and are making a big stink about it.
You pay for your fame with your anonymity
@alocalstalker3231 I'm not justifying deep faking anyone. I am however confused on what, other than paging 15 dollars for p, should Atrioc be CANCELED for. He's not the one profiting from it or making it.
@@omny6686 He may not be profiting or personally making it, but he is guilty of supporting it.
I think what gets me is like, iv never heard any of these people talk about it before. Even though it's been a thing for almost a decade. But now I'm being told I gotta care about it, nahh. You only care cause it happen to you and your friends, they wouldn't care if it happen to me or my friends.
"No female streamers were harmed during the making of this video"
Someone's gonna deep fake Asmon putting vegetables on his plate with food
This is why I always listen to Asmon’s takes, I don’t always agree with him, but he doesn’t entertain those who only with to spark arguments. Rather, he asks how you would change or fix the issue, not bicker like children on twitter whilst pointing fingers at each other.
This definitely won’t go away this is just the beginning
Yeah.
Its like UBER Eats and stuff.
U dont list on their websides but they act like u do and order at your restaurant still and del7ver it.
All without your concent...
Its nothing new...
It's already illegal to profit from someone else's likeness without their permission. Law enforcement just has to do something.
I think Ludwig makes a stupid argument when he says "Well, only men were involved in the creation of this site so somehow it's okay to generalize men's behaviour and call all of them pigs". Yeah, they were female streamers, of course the majority of people involved in making nudes of them would be men. If you got into some weird K-Pop community, you would probably find a majority of women sexualizing the male singers (and a majority of men sexualizing the female singers), yet it wouldn't be fair labelling them all as evil just because of a group of weirdos.
He's saying that maybe it isn't all men that do these things; but conveniently it has been men exclusively that do all these things. And, oddly enough, only men that have been defending Atrioc.
@@TwilightWolf285 Maybe men wouldn't jump to his side if the victims didn't react by lumping every men together with who should be accountable for it.
It's was a knee-jerk reaction by the victims side, considering the situation, but it's inflamatory, as you can see.
Now everyone that's vocal about not wanting to be called perverts because of criminals is considered to be defending Atrioc.
He never said that though? His specific quote was "Not all men, but somehow always men"
That last part doesn't cancel out the first. He doesn't describe this as an issue with all men being pigs.
Also I get that this is the internet so it can be hard to truly measure scope, but if you really think that the problem of women sexualizing men without their consent in "some weird K=pop communities" out there somewhere that neither of us have seen or can name without digging for it is equivalent to the problem of men sexualizing women, which we see examples of every single day both in real life as well as online discourse like this, then you're simply not critically thinking about the issue or just don't care about it.
Like... he even says that this is a *disproportionately* male problem. I don't know why some people feel so defensive over that conversation.
I'm a man too and none of these arguments have ever made me feel like I'm being judged as a pervert or a pig, because I'm aware that I don't engage in the behavior being talked about.
@@sere971 Because it's always women crying about this. Yeah, if you shine the light on one side of course that's all you're gonna see. Because guess what? Generally, guys don't care. It's not hard to understand.
Ludwig is just being sexist.
QT IS NOT IN THE PICTURES FOR ANYONE WONDERING. It was just said it was on the site.
The rhetoric around "Not all men... But always a man" is pretty unfair and what it does is that it further antagonizes men. Not doubt that it was 90-10 m/f but like as a man who doesnt engage in this kind of degeneracy I feel like I am being looped into it. All it does is that it makes people want to disagree with you or it makes them not want to engage with your debate at all.
Is it not true?
@RivailleRavioli it's mostly men, but it's not most men. Most child murder is committed by women, but most women don't murder kids, so no one says all women are child murders. So I would say your sexism is showing.
@@FirstYokai Someone gave the harry styles situation. Deep fake that was shared and giddy about.
How much Henry Cavill and other male actors are sexualised, especially when some of them are obviously not comfortable with it.
The selling of it might be male-focused, but the fantasy and behaviour are not.
It’s that kind of rhetoric which is why the red pill content got so popular. Turns out, demonizing an entire gender and telling them they’re awful bc of their immutable characteristics is actually a bad thing to do
The really sad thing is that the same thing has been actually happening forever, the only difference now is that instead of unrealistic 3d models we now have the most real-looking ai-generated fakes ever, and it's only going to get easier to create them as technology advances... it is unstoppable as it has always been and it will only get worse, and it's scary to think about, but sadly I don't think there's any solution to this and the only thing we can do is (as I think for most of the toxic topics on the internet) try to reduce the future consumers by educating children at home and at school while trying to stimulate their empathy and make them understand how horrible it is, as unrealistic as that sounds.
I mean, you can't just slide the double standard aside here. If this were a girl who got caught looking at deepfakes of male streamers, would we be here talking about it at all? Or would it just be a "Oh hahah" moment as usual?
#35 trending in gaming. Really love the gameplay
I hate how people equate shit like rape or human trafficking to fake nudes. It's not even comparable.
AIso, fake nudes are obviously fake and until the tech gets to the point where you legitimately can't tell if it's actually the person or not I don't care. It IS parody, and you won't convince me otherwise.
I feel like everyone is trying to fucking gaslight me and each other on this "issue". It's not an issue, yet.
we are almost there already, that's why people are panicking . And honestly it would be better to make laws sooner then later
@rick mel how is that even related or remotely similar to what he said?
@@Mohammad-q43h6 Distribution, Hosting and Possession to be illegal.
@@Mohammad-q43h6 Why shouldn’t it be?
@@Mohammad-q43h6 What would be negated? It could easily be classified as Revenge Porn.
Tbf leaking it on stream is what brought attention to it and got it taken down though that could’ve happened without the leak
I'm not defending it but all I'm saying is that this has been happening to celebrities for years and now all of a sudden people want to talk about it as soon as it happens to streamers
@@Mohammad-q43h6 second this
Its nuts how the conversation went from deep fakes to the argument of the universe and what is and what isn't lol. I feel bad for all the super High people watching this and freaking out.
I feel like people have forgotten about the celebrity lookalike porn genre. This shit has always existed, it’s just easier and cheaper to produce now
The most insane things that I hear around this conversations isn't the actual AI but the implications of the consequences around it for the people who has their identity taken.
That the creation of these videos, especially without their consent, can cause them to lose job opportunities, that people send them the videos asking the creators if it is them, or that they can be extorted with these videos by that people send it to their friends and families.
Asmongold: "Can we please stop pretending like the U.S. government controls the internet?"
China: 😢
Amazon Web Services 🌾
@@pcbangbros8350 Is that suppose to mean something?
@@VegaSnipe AWS.
@@pcbangbros8350 That's a no.
tbh people can do it with or without AI all they need is a clip or screencapture and theyre good, there is nothing that can interrupt someones will to do it if they want to and just because someone knows that they did that doest make it worse. I know most people are better of not knowing that thats happening behind the scenes and when reality hits its hard but thats unfortunately life
@@SoverineSR very true
@@SoverineSR it's not like you share your fantasies with the world when you fap tho, isn't that obviously the big difference and problem? of course everyone knows everyone sexualizes to some degree, the problem is in making it public and in explicit content format
It's actually funny now how ppl were freaking out after poki mentioned legislation, like she was trying to go after ppl who don't like her 1984 style. It's about porn guys, it was always about ppl making and using porn in illicit nefarious ways.
The argument about parody laws is really good. If it's being sold as deep fakes and not advertised as the real thing then how is it any different from fan art and so on?
If there are any laws put in place for this it will be about false advertisement and fraud, not people's privacy or dignity on the internet. Maybe there is an argument to be made about people's faces becoming their intellectual property from now. Kind of like tattoos. A difficult thing to traverse through. Do we copyright voices too? Bodyshape? What about identical twins?
Sucks, but what's the 34th rule of the internet?
The big problem is that people can put a disclaimer saying it isn't fake on the website that they sell it, but once it spreads into the internet, the disclaimer doesn't go along with it.
So when it reaches someone's family and friends, it creates such a horrible situation and for what? Just so some dickhead can profit?
At the end of the day, it is much easier to convince someone to believe a lie than it is to convince them to believe they were lied to. No matter how someone tries, they are not going to be able to tell everyone that those pictures/videos were deepfaked. Especially with the technology getting as good as it is getting.
It is putting complete strangers into a horrible position for personal gain. It is sickeningly selfish. Personally, I find it to be indefensible from any kind of moral standpoint.
That's tough to say tbh, but i'm pretty sure that even if it's fan art the creators can stop what you doing it because they own the right too the character. Now how would this translate to actual people i have no idea.
@@freedomextremist7215 "This has been estabilished law forever"
Law changes all the time buddy, especially since as the context of the world changes.
How can you regulate a technology with a law that was created before that technology was even conceptualized?
Laws aren't written in stone. Laws have always changed. Guidelines are updated. Regulations adapt.
@@naosou921 Legally, the culpability would then be on whoever was spreading the videos and claiming they were real, not the original creator.
In a world (like the one we have now) where celebreties are being deepfaked all the time, it should be easy enough for someone to say "that's not real, it's deepfaked" and move on. Does anyone really believe Pokimane had a train ran on her by the men from blacked?
I sympathize, but QT's "this is what pain looks like" response certainly came across as a performative overreaction. It seems like a slap in the face to victims of actual sexual assault.
@rick mel you think what qt went through was ptsd?
Did people suddenly come to a realization that anything they publish stops being private..?
this is just a shift in weirdness. think about it. how many girls who make onlyfans really enjoy the idea that guys buy their content to wack off to? girls only care that they are making money from it as they should. that's their end goal. but deep down those same women think its probably pathetic that guys pay for their shit. like get a gf dude, kinda logic.
so this deep fake stuff is just a shift passed inceldom into something far less controlled and a lot more volatile. so it freaks those girls out as it should. it's not normal. if the Streisand effect really pushes this technology into the forefront of poxn entertainment, there might be some pushback at first but if there's a way for people to monetize it, you know, take advantage of this system that takes advantage of them to make a profit off it, then it'll be normalized as a new product of sad incel behavior; the bar lowered even further.
look at code miko, she was one of the first to invest serious money into that V-tuber crap. it paid off is it was fairly new stuff that she got in early. the same thing could happen with this deepfake crap just in a more taboo way.
i'm not for that shit at all. i'm just calling it like it is. based off of what has happened in the past. when people cannot kill the beast, it eventually turns into a lucrative form of entertainment, irrespective of how disgusting it is.
"Can I please sexualize you?" "Will you sign this sexualization contract?" What a world
It's even more insane to me that people will make sexual content of people who aren't involved whatsoever in that world. And the worst part is that people will continue to excuse it, as if it's normal.
This is how you're required to ask women out on 2023 or you go on the offender watchlist
@@unlisted9494 When was the last time you spoke to a woman?😂
@@TwilightWolf285 I mean, the people who are doing the deep-fakes are "fullfilling a fantasy" There's no need to photoshop the face of a pronstar onto the body of another pronstar. that content already exists. Pokimane taking the n00dle, on the other hand, is not.
I'm not defending it, just EXPLAINING why people would do what you stated in your first sentence. It does make logical sense, its just morally wrong.
ad block and adds are a complete different argument
since the law can't impose content on a viewer, but also can't deny for companies to pay for ads.
The drawing comment is what I was thinking, but Asmon took it the wrong way. This is AI generated and is currently labeled as art, so it falls in the same category as drawings of people. Meaning it would be difficult to stop this legally.
His response about impersonation would make more sense if someone tried to pass these off as real or tried to use deepfakes to scam people. He himself has uploaded a video where he laughed at an AI copy of him that someone made. Granted, that wasn't adult content, but my point is that deepfakes aren't inherently illegal as long as nobody tries to pass them off as real or uses them to scam people.
Asmongold is a very intelligent person.
Just wanted to throw this out there.
Noticed it in many of his Videos. He always has pretty deeply, well thought out opinions on situations.
His audience is a lot more mature than most as well. Even when he gives takes that on first view would seem outrageous or could be misunderstood they immediately get it, whether they agree or not.
It does matter to a small extent, if making a law is only a baby step in curving the problem then that's what should happen because there really is no other steps against it. Even if that law can only be upheld to a tiny extent because the internet is vast, identities are easily hidden, and is not dictated by a single country it can still be upheld to some extent...no matter how small. Talking about it may help in some extent but it also informs the people who may be interested in this to it's existence...in the end talking is only going to make it bigger so the only thing we can do about it is take actions against it, and the only actions against it are legal actions.
As far as the guy talking about it being a parody, two things to that, the first is a point made by Asmongold, no using someone's likeness and identity, even only for comedic effect is not a parody, someone's likeness and identity is not a style of art or expression...this would be closer to defamation than a parody. It's not like you're taking their hairstyle and color and using their makeup style or whatever else on a different person, this is literally using their personal image and creating something then monetizing it. The second is that a parody is always conscious about itself being a parody, advertising a deepfake as anything other than a deepfake (such as a "leak") automatically destroys any defense of it being a parody.
Poki has sexualised herself for profit and then complains about being sexualised...modern women
No she hasn't. Jfc worst take 2023 from an incel.
My mind is a Deepfake generator……
true but not everyone can visualize imagery as well as someone like you or someone with an artistic visually stimulated mind.
is it possible to learn this power?
@@toastytoast9800 If you dont have it already, you are an NPC.
I kinda have it, but I need a picture for it to start workin'. Just normal photos
@@toastytoast9800 Not from a Jedi.
I think it makes it easier to think of it like this:
1. All vice should be removed by the state
2. Porn is a vice.
THEREFORE.
3. the state should remove porn.
Whether it is effective or not does not matter - the syllogism stands and thus the moral obligation.
I wonder if this reasoning is appealing to you?
To put it in moralistic terms to make the syllogism even easier to follow:
1. All evil should be removed by the state
2. Porn is evil
THEREFORE
3. Porn should be removed by the state
You could distinguish premise 1.
- opposition that would cause more evil, I deny (that the state should remove in such a case)
- opposition where more good occurs (less evil), I concede (that the state should remove in such a case)
Imagine paying for pron lol
I will never understand paying for it.
I really think the generalization of just "men", while technically accurate, is a bad way to put it.
Even if it's men doing it and using those sites, it's not a majority of men. By far. Just like women don't want to be put in the same pot as the worst examples of women, men don't wanna be lumped in with the worst examples of men.
If you're gonna put out a statement, especially in text, choose your words wisely and be precise with whom you're accusing.
Asmon "It's actually because I fn hate Charlie, ok? He's got better hair than me, and I don't like it."
I love Asmon :)
"can't stop people for making it" is not a good reason not to make laws around it tbh, it'll definitely reduce it and make people think twice before engaging
govern me harder daddy
@@donut_42 sure but this means at least there is at least one less service for it out there. Lots of people still pirate music but it would be way more if it was legal don't you think? Laws work
I don't think anyone is saying that laws shouldn't be made against it. We are just saying that content like that is inevitable, and even if it is reduced, it won't be stopped, which you kinda stated in your comment anyway.
It won't stop shit. Drugs are illegal and lots of people do them. Murder is illegal yet people get killed everyday
Tell that to drugs and alchohol. Banning those DEFINTLY did more good than harm 🙄. Stop trying to micromanage people.
Wow this is hilarious. I can say that because I have zero sympathy. Turning yourself into a product and selling said product has negatives. Learn to live with them or don't do it. Like how long has Hollywood delt with this kind of thing? The answer is forever it's why celebrity lookalike porn is a thing.
The sad reality is that the cat is out of the bag. You can limit access by making it harder to get to it but you will never be able to stop it. You can't criminalize usage but you can go after creators within reason.
I love how genuine his takes are on these videos but I also love all the meme content from this comment section lol
"Laws won't do anything" is a super crusty take. Child porn laws exist for the sole purpose of attempting to prevent harm and for punishing individuals that consume the end product. Obviously they don't "solve" everything, but why would you not want to at least do SOMETHING?
In America at least, this kind of stuff falls under the first amendment. This isn't new, rags like Hustler Magazine have been doing things like this to celebrities for decades.
Speaking of sexualizing people without their consent. Has anybody heard about Wattpad? Or fan-fiction genre?
If the standard is not "sexualizing people without their consent", that's an impossible standard. I hate that phrase, we need to stop using it. It's logically deficient, and falls apart with the smallest amount of scrutiny. Say what you mean. "Stop touching women without their consent" "Stop making deepfakes of women without their consent." "Stop spreading women's paywalled content without their consent." See how easy that was? These statements actually mean something. "Sexualizing" is something you do in your own head, it's subjective, vague, and essentially meaningless.
People have been making deepfakes of celebrities and even politicians. for a few years now. This isn't new and isn't surprising. I feel like these streamers have been living in a bubble. I'm sure they all get hundreds of unsolicited comments from thirsty weirdos they must know how depraved some people are.
I honestly don't know what the issue is. Porn of everything exists. Is it right that they using your face for deepfake porn? No. And it is definitely your right to try to take it down or sue if they are making profit off of it. But when your job gives fans access to you and you have parasocial interactions with them on a day to day basis, you can't be surprised that some of them sexualize you.
Hell people sexualize each other just passing each other on the street, the issue some people can't keep their thoughts and weird shit to themselves.
If you make it illegal, photo shopping becomes illegal.
They’re two totally different technologies.. what you said just simply isn’t the case
To be honest, it's only going to get worse and more prevalent now. Might as well teach these streamers to deal with it in a healthy way because after pandora's box is open, there is no going back. Eventually deepfakes will get accurate voiceovers as well, which will make it indistinguishable from the original person. This is the price of fame in the modern age. You signed on the dotted line, the repercussions are not fair but neither is life.
Lmao ok but it’s illegal to sell it which is the big problem. Even if you’re stepping around the take you’re making by saying it’s not fair it’s still an incel take. Wether you know it or not.
@@greenburg2276 ok but try living in reality instead of fantasyland for a second. We don't live in a idealistic world. People lack morals. Know this instead of crying about it on the internet when those facts are proven to be true. The bigger incel take is white knighting on the topic like that is going to help anyone lmao
@@greenburg2276 calling him an incel is crazy bro I got some bad news for you called anywhere that isnt north america we really should teach them how to deal with this healthily cause it's not going away. Just being real, wack ass mfs for doing it tho
the lack of action is what will make it get worse. The normalization of the action will make it worse. If we just as a collective normalize people being deepfaked, it'll repell people from wanting to have any platform at all. The fact that this even happens and is almost strictly a problem that women face online is a huge problem in itself and the denial of that and choosing to remain ignorant about that is what will make it worse.
@@NaiveAgenda it’s illegal though in multiple states. Do you have this take with more dark pork? “It exists so deal with it.” Your ISP probably hates you with how many times they have to log your searches on Tor and report them to authorities.
It's both fascinating and disturbing to see how chatters react to this topic
Still cant believe what has happened. I never expected Big A to fall from grace like this. I think that everyone will get over the whole situation eventually. I hope he is in good spirits when he comes back. Much love to everyone.
Dude its happening since military allowed internet
dont get me wrong, its bad. but the way people are acting sounds more like he intentionally leaked an ex-gfs nudes for revenge or something, rather than what it was. im sure he'll be back if he wants to come back.
@@auscaliber1 the way people are acting? The fuck does other people's actions or opinions have to do with what his real intentions were? That's a very bold claim to be making and I have never even seen atrioc nor do I like him since this is the first I've actually seen of him so I'm not on his side or anything. That's just a really bad accusation to make. Thats MUCH worse than watching deep fake porn. To assume someone is THAT scummy because of having a certain website open is totally wrong.
Interestingly, celebrity look-a-like porn was all the rage over on Tumblr before they cracked down on explicit content. Basically, creators would scourer porn looking for pornstars that looked like famous celebs or the characters certain actors portray and either make gifs of specific scenes or even edit pornstar celeb look-a-likes from two separate films and use editing to put the people together and make gifs or video clips. Sounds to me, this guy got the idea from that trend and decided "screw all the hard work of video editing...I'll just use ai deep fake...and land myself some lawsuits. What a dumb dumb.
While I agree that it’s dumb, creating any ai is significantly more complicated then editing a look a like video. Like wayyyyyy more complicated
I'm not convinced they can be sued for anything as long as they didn't try to pass them off as real. It should fall under fair use, since it's clearly transformative content.
A few years ago there was all this outrage over guys just having the image of someone in their head while masturbating.
I feel bad for his wife. Having her on stream was cringe and not even mentioning her on the tweet.
Lol bro his wife better get paid. She was embarrassed and hurt and on top of it her husband is paying the legal fees for other women for his actions. Just divorce that dude.
This is something that can't be won . The more you pull the more there's going to be it's best to ignore it at the moment all there doing is advertising for something that existed long before the streamers fighting it .
While I think this is the case, I can't see how any media differentiates from this. Is lud allowed to make this video without the dudes consent? Is he allowed to reference pokimane without consent? Is a mainstream news article allowed to mention by name?
What even is the purpose of consent? Wasn't its lawful implementation to affirm free will, and safety? I can see a lot of more tangible problems ensuing like maybe some sort of workplace leak, or maybe identity fraud. Although that could arguably be curbed by requiring a watermark.
Honestly, if Ludwig has just told the people hitting him up over this “fuck off, you guys come second right now” I would think that’s fair
Serious question, wouldnt deepfakes be considered as fair use?
In the context of profiting on it I mean.
How is it fair use? You are not using content, you are making fake content, depicting someone in sexual way.
It's a gray area for sure, like most of "fair use" cases. But in the end, a deepfake is a new original product that's using public content. It's the same thing as AI art, but people are more angry about this because it's sexual.
@@-PureRogue them being depicted in a sexual way doesn't have anything to do with fair use
@@liam3104 Yeah, it does, actually. Nowhere in the definition of Fair Use does it exclude sexual content. If it does, show me the text of the law. The only hurdle here is impersonation, but if you're clearly indicating to the user that it's fake, then there's definitely an interesting legal case for fair use.
Looking at the guidelines for US Copyright Fair Use, probably not. Deepfake porn mostly fails all 4 of the criteria that gets looked at for Fair Use.
1) Purpose and character of use: It’s being used for a commercial purpose which makes it less likely to be fair use, but it uses technology to transform content so this part is questionable. The answer to this will likely come from the results of the Stable Diffusion AI copyright court cases that hinge around this
2) Nature of the work: This criteria looks at how creative it is. Doing Deepfake porn once might be fair use, but doing it thousands of times would probably limit how much it can claim to be creative
3) Amount used compared to work as a whole: If it’s deepfake porn, 100% of the impersonation would be used throughout the video. It would be more likely to be fair use if the deepfake was a cameo that only showed up for one small part of a video
4) Potential to harm original copyright owner’s market share: These deepfake videos absolutely would be able to harm the original’s ability to make money off of the same content.
AI shit in the last year has been absolutely nuts tbh
He only watched it, it's not like he created it. This is cancel culture overreaction. People acting like the women were assaulted just because of deep fake, wtf
13:26
Hell, probably most of the audience is but some aren't like this.
I wish you a happy and great life asmon. You're not just a dancing monkey. I think you're an extremely authentic person and that deserves a lot of respect.
Ofc people wish to be in the same position to be famous and earn a lot but I think it's possible to be jealous AND grateful for what the other person has at the same time.
Like one wants what another has but this person is still happy about the other person having these things.
I think you have a great attitude towards things, cause I think the ways you're thinking will keep you sane in this hateful world, so keep it up buddy c:
I think the best way to handle a situation like this in regards to deepfakes, is to reduce presence of deepfake sites to the degree in wich a person would have to use a vpn, go through certain network tunneling, and generally do a bunch of stuff to gain access. You can not really eliminate this issue, but making it harder to have such ease of access to content like this to the point it is more of a hassle to get to is the next best thing.
I generally agree with Asmon, however imo he discounts the deeper reason to why these things occur. Viewing porn is toxic to a person in a much deeper way than most of us give it credit for. It literally changes your brain chemistry. I know most of us can attest to the negative effects of porn use gradually throughout our lives. What starts off as watching 'normal' porn eventually does escalate to darker and more demeaning things. The normal stuff doesn't appeal as much anymore and we look for heavier material which can quickly get out of control. There is a reason why Ted Bundy attributed his killings to his porn use.
In Atrioc's case, things got out of hand for him. Does that make him a bad person? I would argue no. But that definitely does not discount his actions and the fact that he let his porn use get to that point.
Shit argument. Everything causes changes to your brain chemistry. Besides, people are allowed to do shit which damages them - cigarettes, alcohol, watching twitch streamers, etc..
asmon - "use another PC" looking at his other PC lol
Imo deep fake pron just feels like it's similar to revenge pron. Ok it's faked, what if it was real? people can barely tell and now its monetized and spread over the internet without the persons consent, just like revenge pron.
What if it was real? The thing is, it's not. Not even the person's body.
Except there doesn't necessarily need to be malice behind faking porn of someone. Example... Right now on the internet you can find porn of any female character from a video game... the voice actors didn't consent... the companies that own the IP and the character didn't consent... but it exists... the same is true for IRL actresses and actors... like the famous Carrie Fisher slave leia outfit, that we know FOR A FACT... she was heavily drugged while wearing by her own admission... yet that character and fakes of Carrie fisher have been around for decades... if not longer.
To take it one step further every Vtuber has porn of their their character model or the sexualization of their character... many of these artists are praised for their ability to create what some (including the steamers in question) to be beautiful works of art.
That is the issue with trying to find a way to prosecute deep fake porn... if you paint with a broad brush you essentially ban all artistic nudes from existence dating back centuries... because no one can guarantee that the models likeness was consented or that the artist wasn't "being a creep" and imagining someone similar to the model used that sexually interested them... essentially a thought crime... If you paint with a shallow brush you essentially ban nothing and nothing changes for not just the reason Asmongold listed but because you can claim artistic interpretation or that any resemblance to any person living or dead is purely coincidental (even if we all know exactly who it is).
It will be interesting to see how the western world attempts to address it... but ultimately I do not believe its possible, and I think it will become a reality for any internet/TV personality to face... essentially part of the gig.
"stop sexualizing ppl with out their consent" - Ok... so i will never be sexualy attracted to anyone without their consent... I get what his saying. "Dont create sexual *content* with out their consent"
NO! You're supposed to STOP THINKING about people who do not want you to think about them! Have some respect! /s
@@profanemagic5671 Amen🙏 brother 😤
Using someone else's likeliness is just shity. I don't see any reason that deep fakes help society at all? They should be banned.
Meh if you want to put yourself on the internet then you have to expect people are going to have access to your videos, screenshots, etc. and do whatever the f they want with them. The problem here isn't Atrioc watching deepfake porn; the problem is that he got caught. That's all.
true and real
What bothers me is that this entire conversation is filled with half truths. I don't watch this, nor any of the above streamers to be completely honest, but why not have a sober talk about the actual and complete truth and then say it is still bad? There are many times each and every one of these streamers have been thirst trapping men, no matter how light it is (all over youtube). Or be truthful about exposure brings in costumers for onlyfans girls. That is genuinely the only thing that kinda is annoying, I get that it is horrible, but to act like these kind of people just appeared from nowhere bothering women whom have in no way "lightly thirst trapped men", it is simply not the truth. I do hope they make it the law to not use 3d render of them or w/e they call it, but what genuinely bothers me, is how weak all of this is. If people genuinely talked about it with no BS, I think the results would be way better.
Rather than act like twitch borderline pushing naked women on literal twitch users which are not that old, would never be a problem (no offense, but I still do not understand how that is fine, even in this era where there is more of a "sacrifice men for women" deal going on, weird how women were just allowed to push porn to literal teenagers...only problem I have here). Or that these women have not repeatedly tried to pull in certain viewerships many times, over their careers. Again, not excusing any of this or even giving any level of points to the other side, it is horrible either way, but dusting that off, just seems dishonest and a waste of time since it will be the first thing everyone thinks about men and women "yeah but these women are clearly trying to....(you get the idea)"...And needs to be answered honestly, or people will not talk about it, but it will be beyond clearly in the back of everyones minds men and women. And the push back will be BS, since they believe you are BS'ing and acting like these women are borderline entering every stream with religious clothes/topics/never thirst trapping.....you get the idea....Just be direct, and say regardless of the literal first thing everyone would clearly mention in groups, it is still
At the end of the day, these people's jobs are to get views. Why won't they have an honest discussion? Because controversy is like the number 1 thing that produces views. Did Atrioc do it on purpose for views? Almost definitely not. But will all the other content creators say controversial shit and farm views off of the situation? Absolutey so lol. Asmon is a WoW streamer who "reacted" to the Johhny Depp trial lol. This guys a reality TV star basically.
Crazy how Ludwig is literally saying that men and women are not equal when it helps his image but hey I won’t say anything
I mean yeah, when it comes to deepfakes of cis straight women, the primary audience is gonna be straight men and lesbian women. Straight men vastly outnumber lesbian women, so of course it's going to be more men on that basis. However, who is the primary demographic for, idk, Dan and Phil gay fan fiction, or BTS gay cuddle puddle fanfictions? Straight women. It's the same kind of thing, ultimately.
Not denying that taking someone's physical likeness and transferring it onto someone else to create a realistic visual representation isn't worse than, say, someone being written about in a clearly fictitious setting. The former is worse than the latter. However, the behaviours and perverted tendencies that spawned both kinds of creations are the same. As a woman (not that it should matter), I'm sick and tired of pretending like men are uniquely bad and predatory, when it's clearly not the case. Women tend to merely be bad and predatory in slightly different ways, that's all.
comparing deepfakes to rape is a real 2023 take
I think it should be illegal to share such things with others, either online or offline.
Are deepfakes a problem when they try to pass off as real or just a problem in of itself? The technology and applications of the technology are fascinating and will no doubt change the entertainment industry.
It's a problem because you are gaining profit off of someones likeness without their consent. So... stealing. And the fact that it's done in the porn industry makes it 10x worse, and also takes from pornstars who, maybe at some point, will be out of work because people will just AI generate and deepfake all porn.
Deepfakes are usually bad because you can tell its botched as fuck though sometimes the content can be "good." Hope it sticks around longer.
Imagine they make a deepfake of you saying things you don't agree with. Maybe you are a conservative and they make you say heinous things. Maybe you are a liberal and they make you say heinous things. They can deepfake voices and faces, eventually we won't be able to trust ANY video or recording we hear. Imagine your mom calls you on the phone but actually its a deepfake of your mom to scam you. The technology for live deep fakes (sort of like a filter) is getting better everyday. Soon having any picture of you on social media will be enough for someone to steal your entire identity online.
If you believe in private property, then yes. Deepfakes are an invasion of privacy, you're using someone's likeness or voice without their consent. However if you advocate for the abolishment of privacy, then deepfakes are fine, that's where the problem lies, with people who don't necessarily believe that you can have private ownership of things or yourself, but who still think that deepfakes are bad. Due to the nature of deepfakes being 100% an invasion of privacy, you can see where the contradictions can lie.
Most of the technologies are not the problem themselves. Deepfake is already widely used in cinema movies to swap stunt man with the actors.
How to use it is the problem, e.g.using it for porn. Fake sexual material is not new. People made photoshopped celebrities nude 20 years ago.
It can deal with the law, but it is really hard to execute.
The take comparing this to rape is the most hyperbolic shit in the world. I can understand it makes you uncomfortable and violates your privacy. But comparing it to actual sexual assault is kinda insulting to all survivors.
The technology behind producing deepfake, voice synthesisers, etc. is only going to get better and easier to access. If you are a high-profile personality, regardless of your profession, this will happen to you eventually. It's a shitty thing, but, expect it, and now expect it to happen more because it got this reaction. (Even though it's the right reaction).
9:44 shoutout to the guy who only watches last of s p2 prn
No one,especially streamers, care when something bad happens to us individually, so why do these millionaire streamers expect special treatment from us? This deep fake thing happened to one of my friends too, guess who cared?
It doesn't matter anyway. They are being crybabies. "Oh no! Someone put my face on someone else's body"
It's still wrong either way, famous or not.
@@TwilightWolf285 Why is it wrong, it's not even real
Good ole "you don't care about me, why should I care about you?" I apply this to my everyday life and honestly its lifted so much weight from my shoulders.
Who tf care about your feeling? How's your "freind" feel?
Asmond, just because something isn’t illegal in another country doesn’t mean passing a law in the US does nothing.
For one, it’s illegal to sell flavored vape juice in my state. I can’t just go on a website located in another state and buy it there.
If it’s illegal to do it would depend on where you were when you accessed the illegal material not the origin of it.
On top of the hair, he also has his health with him. Zack always have me worried about his.
It's his life, these comments are annoying
Bro really tried to say Schrödinger’s Cat doesn’t exist. Elaborate?
Ruined a friendship with his own stupidity but otherwise, who cares.
Some guy watching deepfake porn? That's it? That's the drama? Who cares
Is he upset because he did it, or because he got caught is the real question.
Would Atrioc have had this sudden epiphany himself without outside intervention?...
Hell no
wouldn't that the case in any situation?
but its true that if no one knows about it it didn't happen
This is the most hypocritical conversation between people I have heard in a LONG TIME. Deep fakes have been happening to Celebrities for ages. Any one with any bit of PHOTO EDITING skills can do them and have been doing them for YEARS. It was wrong then and its wrong now. The only difference is, its happening to streamers because streamers are the new celebs. It's the most hypocritical thing ever. Did people not care when it was Britney Spears? Christina Aguilera? Megan Fox? No no one cared. But now you do because they're streamers? Sure. Also these sites have been around for AGES. But just for mainstream Celebrities. Yet no one cared then. Now we do?
"Man watches pornography" Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for drama here. Slow month I guess.
Is and is not. It is not a mandatory camera. It is in a public space. Anything in public can be used.
Serious question. Is the issue the distribution and monetization of the persons likeness? I don't see an inherent moral issue with deep fake porn. If you create it yourself and don't distribute it, what is the difference between it and a hand drawn lewd photo? Whats the difference of using your imagination or creating material to view? I think the only moral issue is the distribution and monetization. This is being looked at like an assault or something and it shouldn't be that serious.
Because it is not just a moral issue? There are tangible harm brought to victims.
Distribution and monetisation are not just moral problems. It is societal concern as it trespasses individuals right for one's unjust enrichment. Prevalence or the lack of legal intervention is not an excuse to downplay a problem as "not serious".
@EarlsPearls Did you not see QT's video of her crying because she's had issues with her body image, and this deepfake was like someone saying that's what you should look like. Like how do you not understand the concept that most women do not want to be used as someones jerk off material. It's fucking gross. Like go watch porn of women who are on it for that purpose and stop giving money to people who are profiting off of people who DO NOT give their CONSENT!
@@skriptor4210 devil advocate: what tangible harm?
@Dad’s Cigarette run look, if I have to explain the harms it brings, our conversation is not worth having. You don't have to be the devil advocate, you just have to apply common sense
@-TriP- this is why the Internet is filled with idiots
Lmfao rule #1 in life. Never use your main pc for anything questionable.
That's just common sense
Pirating is probably increasing because of all these stupid subscription services are ruining the ease of finding and consuming content. If I want to stream a specific show, half the time its on some other subscription service that I would need to pay for and/or they only have half of the episodes and/or a google/roku search tells me it is on a service that it isn't actually on. It is more of a pain in the butt than setting up a local media server. And stealing a TV show isn't going to cause someone else to starve. The morality of stealing an apple to survive doesn't track when you're talking about stealing from some multinational corporation that trashes half of the apples that are grown just to create artificial scarcity so their profits can remain high. Saying stealing an apple to starve is not immoral because the person you stole from will starve is the pinnacle of reductive.
“Piracy is a service issue” -Gabe Newell
lud looked so angry