Film Theory: Okay Marvel, It’s Time to PANIC! (Ant Man Quantumania)
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- čas přidán 4. 03. 2023
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If you watched Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania recently, then you likely have the EXACT same question we do: what the heck was that?! After the CGI fest, cringe story beats, and swapped ending, we have to ask what Marvel is doing at this point. What went wrong and can they recover?
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#AntMan #AntMan3 #AntManAndTheWaspQuantumania #AntManTrailer #Modok #KangTheConquerer #Marvel #MarvelStudios #MCU #Superhero #PaulRudd #Theory #FilmTheory #Matpat - Krátké a kreslené filmy
You know a movie must have been rough when there's no "SPOILER!" warning at the beginning of a theory about an MCU movie
With how crystal clear each "new" plot has become, spoilers is an oximoron.
@@sethkeown5965 the problem they can't go to far from what people are expecting. These day people absolutely love to complain. Something they didn't have to deal with for the infinity saga. They had a plan and they followed it. Now they make a plan and some group of people find it offensive or disagree with it so they change it.
@@rhyswilliams4893 That’s wrong in multiple ways. People complained just as much before the infirm saga as they do afterwards. That’s historical revision. And phase 4 & 5 literally don’t have a plan. That’s the biggest problem. After Endgame, Feige left the story running position and was going to put Gunn in his place, until his pedo jokes got outed. At that point marvel just started free styling and that’s why they’ve had 3 movies that all were advertised under the guise of fighting the multiverse just to be boring marvel schlock again.
@@rhyswilliams4893thats not a problem at all. Don’t cater to anyone and do what you want, that way the people who would have been mad stay mad regardless, and the rest get a movie thats actually good. Trying to appease everyone never works and just ends up letting everyone down
yeah... i was gonna go see quantumania this weekend, guess not now lmao
The MCU right now feels like that one assignment you submit 5 minutes before the deadline. Every script feels like it was written in an afternoon.
Copied comment.
Huh weird this comment feels familiar…
That’s what happens when you have a franchise that has lasted long and a corporation that needs to continuously feed the beast with new content in order to stay relevant.
I was the first comment how do you have 200 likes
@@4X4StudiosHR cry for attention
I think you’re absolutely right. In the trailer from like 4 months ago the voice over has Kang say “I can get you home, I can get you more time. What’s it gonna be…Antman”. It almost seems like they are implying Scott is the one who wants more time with his daughter . The time he lost during the blip and she grew up without him. But in actuality the ‘get you home, get you time’ is talking to Janet who wants to get back to Hope. I remember thinking initially when I watched the trailer Scott makes a deal with Kang not knowing who he is. After watching the movie I thought maybe I was tricked with the deceptive marvel editing. But maybe my initial thought was right. Who knows.
I haven’t seen the movoe but the trailer made me think that way
I feel like they had to make Kang more evil than how he was portrayed in the trailer because it would of been hard to find a way to justify Scott not taking up that offer, I feel like hes the one character most likely to take a deal like that.
You’re right. The trailer was a master-manipulator. They actually could’ve had something here. Instead, Marvel/Disney jacked it up.
The perspective on Wanda wanting to "rip the life force out of a Latina teenager to resurrect a fake version of the American dream that only existed in her imagination" is actually a super poignant take.
Scarlet Witch wears a red hat.
@@dougrobinson6683 it’s hard to consider them human
@@lukesmith4698 You mean the bots in the CZcams comments?
I personally think that's a bit of a stretch but I can see it
I remember there was a pretty popular theory floating around when trailers dropped about Kang initially offering Scott the ability to go back in time, didn’t miss 5 years with his daughter. But then that plot ended up being Janet’s and no such offer was given to Scott which felt off to me. Like, you could have had a good parallel between Janet and Scott of both lost out on years with their daughters and Kang offering the same deal of giving those lost years back. I almost wonder if this was initially a plan, even more generational parallels
That makes sense actually. Because in their climactic fist-fight in front of the portal, Kang says that he made that offer to Scott, which... he didn't. He made it to Janet. I think this theory of the story getting cut up in post-production makes a LOT of sense.
BRO EXACLRT
This is what I went into theaters expecting, a deal to get him back what he’s missed from with cassie. If you include prison and house arrest(he was able to have fun inside but still) on top of the 5 years of the blip, he missed 10 whole years of her life. And Janet who has experienced this lost time would be able to talk him out of it and towards experiencing this present and the future he has currently.
I heard this rumour at that point and I am glad they didn't do it. I dont think this makes sense to risk such a big thing just to get those 5 years. He is not the only one lost his 5 years. And also scott has lived years in prison. He missed her daughter's whole childhood. Missing 5 years of teenage isn't that much of a big deal.
100% this. The trailers had Kang offer something to Scott and it had to have been time. It even ties into the aspect of him trying to be there with Cassie so she wouldn't have strayed too far into the jail stuff
I love this new arc of Matpat being incredibly skeptical and critical of the things he’s talking about, it’s refreshing to know he feels the same way as the rest of us.
@Blended Circuit right, it’s no “theory” a movie that suffered TONS of reshoots was a butchered mess. They used a lesser MCU property as an info dump to jump start phase 5.
MovieBob is pulling the strings in the background (in a good way!)
@DarkSolidity Thank you!! I couldn't put into words why I was so mad at this movies ant man, and it's because they used him to info dump for phase 5 😭
At this point he's like us, fed up with trash films.
Pandering! The man sold out. We want softball theories and treating the industry with kid gloves!
I'd have personally loved it if the Kang we got in Quantimania was exiled by the other Kangs not for wiping out timelines, but for wiping out timelines that produced evil Kang's. And because it's the multiverse, you could have it be where he's the only good Kang left, and he took over the quantum realm not to conquer it like every other Kang, but rather to give the citizens there some form of protection, even if they don't want it.
That would be an amazing twist, and a way to set up the Kang dynasty. Have it be where, with the end of the movie, this Kang could send them back willingly, but doing so sends out a signal that alerts the other Kangs that he's still alive, and so they band together to wipe out that timeline to destroy any threats to their dominance
The Avengers vs a team of kangs sounds cool but also kinda one sided, unless we get the typical plot armor.
I think from the dialogue in quantumania something similar could happen, kang was kinda hinting at him conquering to prevent incursions which in my mind might set him up as the evil hero, similar to thanos
@@CalvinNoire every story has some level of plot armor...
The MCU is now like a long running TV show like Survivor or The Simpsons which peaked a while ago but superfans are keeping it alive because it's a comfort blanket. The general public have moved on.
Simpsons is still very big
@@robertokrosorban3666 Yes, I. agree they are still big, but they are well past their cultural peak when you would hear people quote them all the time and were part of the zeitgeist.
Yeah, I feel that. Well, Simpsons is ok to be a comfort blanket because it’s 22 min episodes still airing on tv. It’s an old world content for old world means.
Same with Survivor. The medium is the content.
Marvel on the other hand was part of the blockbuster medium. And they can’t live up to that anymore.
I wonder if the medium of theatrical film is dying at the same time though. Maybe you’re right on the money.
Simpsons with family centered sitcoms, Survivor with reality tv competitions, and Marvel with blockbuster franchises
@@rayesafan9628 Nah, theatrical film isn't dying. People still want to have the theater experience if there's a well made crowd pleaser. Just look at Top Gun: Maverick or the entire Barbenheimer hype.
@@DerMoerpler
True, it's more that theatres are getting more expensive, so people are more hesitant to spend a lot of money on movies they're not certain about enjoying.
There was a line towards the end of the film where Kang told Scott something along the lines of “You had a chance to leave.” I spent so long after watching the film and even during a second rewatch trying to figure when he *actually* had a chance to escape the quantum realm. This theory might explain that line just like the “Our word is our bond” thing
It would make Scott’s decision to fight Kang more impactful if he was given the chance to leave too. Like, Scott has no skin in this game. He just wants to take his daughter and friends and go home.
But deciding to stay and fight for people you barely know just because it’s the right thing to do cements Scott as a real hero and not just some hapless dude who gets dragged along by the Avengers. Plus, it brings him around to Cassie’s way of thinking instead of that conflict being abruptly forgotten about
Rawààaþat
Is he not talking about when Antman tackled him from the portal? He could’ve left then but decided to fight instead
He had a chance to leave with the “deal” Scott and kang made about the orb
@@emmanuelakalusi3690 Scott had multiple chances, from Kang's point of view.
1 - If he'd just given him the core right away Kang would have honoured the deal and gotten them home.
2 - If he'd speared his daughter through the portal instead of pushing her through.
3 - If he'd let Kang through and followed him out instead of intercepting him.
4 - If he hadn't destroyed the core.
From Scott's PoV, he didn't have any chances once he knew the monster than Kang is, and couldn't allow him to escape.
I stand behind the Kang plot twist theory 100%. Kang's "she'll be fine without you" line made no sense to me in theaters
What?
Meaning if the original ending was with Scott dying or being trapped not able to go back it make sense for Kang would know that would happen in this sense kang knew he would win regardless if they tried to stop him or not
Iron Lad
I’m sure some Marvel super fan will be sure to call you all sorts of names for not bowing 🙇♂️ to their god
It’s because go woke go broke that’s why they are where they are
My cousin is a storyboard writer and a comic consultant assistant, and she was telling me that they are basically being like children taking a multiple question/multiple answer test and our second guessing her right answers with answers that are incorrect… Long story short they’re making drunk decisions basically With tons of insecurities of how they think the public will react to it
Think you nailed this. The last several movies felt like they were rushed or missing something. They didn't have that same confidence and character development of what came before.
The premise that I got from the trailer was: Cassie is in jail because she is going down the same criminal path her father went. Scott doesn't want that especially since he wasn't in her life for 5 years. So while bonding with her over tech, they both get sucked into the Quantum Realm. At some point Kang approaches Scott, sympathizes with him and makes him an offer to give him the time he lost with his daughter in exchange for getting Kang out of the Quantum Realm. Janet and the family go in to save them and Janet warns Scott about Kang's true nature. But Scott has this inner conflict with himself because he still wants that time with his daughter back. Would he go as far as to trust Kang? Sounds like a much better story what we got.
That sounds 100% better than the actual movie. One of the best things about the Antman movies was Scott and Cassie's relationship. That being an integral part of the movie would've been so much better than the underwhelming and generic action movie we got
100*better
that was literally the plot
@@randomselfimprovementchann1304 Did toi even watch the movie?
@@watema3381 Therorists should check-out Channel that are more serious than this here who are still-similar.
Forrest Valkai and more so Some-More-News according to Statistics dont have many young Fans
!
I feel bad for the original actor for older cassie, she didn't even know she was getting replaced until it was announced.
And honestly, I preferred the actress’ performance in Endgame, over Katherine Newton’s in Quantumania 😭 I do think Katherine Newton is a good actress, but she had, like, two facial expressions throughout the entire movie. Though, I’m sure the bigger issue lies with the director, which in turn probably has to do with the strict deadlines the movie was facing.
@@Clair-Bear exactly what I thought lmao, she had the expressions of an npc from fifa fan stands.
It’s because go woke go broke that’s why they are where they are
Casdie looks like a pokemon trainer now
@@Aklys10 🤣🤣🤣😭😭man said fifa npc im dead
When watching this movie I had only realized we were approaching the climax of the story when we literally arrived there. This movie has some of the weirdest pacing I’ve ever seen
They really should just take him into the Marvel writer’s headquarters and have him piece everything together for them. At this point I’m positive MatPat could really make the franchise continue to thrive better than the actual team.
@aeonreign6456 I don't know I think mat would at the very least give them some structure they desperately need. I think they have to many people that get there kooky ideas green light have there fun and leave and they need someone whos going to rein them in and keep marvel on a good pace
Quantumania is a perfect example of why Marvel needs to stop pushing unrealistic deadlines for movies to be released. The problem isn't the writers, actors, or any of the people who worked on it, but it's the deadlines and that they are rushing to finish. They also need to stop being unfair to their VFX workers!
Well some of the writer's aren't good but you're right Disney must chill and plan the rest of the phases patiently
They can’t, they have to keep pushing out poor quality products to keep Disney+ afloat, Marvel is now the only main draw for Disney+ and they need to have a ton of new releases to try and keep peoples subscriptions. That, plus trying to follow in the footsteps of the failed ‘all new, all different’ path that the now failed Marvel Comics tried is resulting in the downfall of the MCU.
what vfx team? no one want to work for them ....
The MCU Is In Shambles
The writers are definitely the problem, they had ample time to right a script and make it good, instead we get this clump of dirt
If even MatPat starts to doubt Marvel, you know stuff is wrong.
I swear dawg. You can feel the end of marvel looming
@@EddieNgatia and the dcu will shine and take its place
@@BrianGriffinW I highly doubt that, it's going to be hard to create something better than the first 3 phases of the mcu
I like his movie he found better than the real movie as well
yup imagine if the WOKE youtuber starts doubting the WOKE movies thats really insane.
I think a lot of these problems could be easily fixed if the release schedule was spaced out a little more. The infinity saga took 11 years (2008-2019) and now they plan to finish the multiverse saga in 5 years (2020-2025) - that's insane!
The infinity saga didn't really get that exciting for me until after the second Avengers movie
not really, all you need is more people, not more time. work on more movies at once.
Matpat has an awesome way of growing up with the audience. I’ve been watching him since middle school and I’m 21 now and when I watch his videos they don’t seem cringy or “for kids” keep up the awesome work MatPat
I like how for Phase 4, Marvel had just the absolute infinite possibilities with how well they set up a dark precedence of Thanos going away not really fixing much of the issues of created, and yet they decided to make the most basic, milk toast movies and shows out of it for the most part
milquetoast*
@Grey Philosopher Completely true.
@@greyphilosopher8609 oh gods here we go.
@Grey Philosopher I'm actually working on a paper for my English class right now criticizing this model and the overall proliferation of streaming series and how they are practically mandatory to watch which is a significant monetary and time commitment in-order to fully understand the associated films and how their unwillingness to take chances with the films to avoid alienating audiences will just lead to the audiences becoming bored and dropping the franchise.
I don't like your grammar.
Yeah, I was all set for a "Scott and Hope trapped in the Quantum Realm" cliffhanger, which would not only work better as an ending, but it would also explain why they wouldn't just immediately run to the other Avengers and inform them about Kang. Instead we just got... not that.
The movies are building together into a bigger picture. That's what made Marvel, _Marvel!_ The pizazz of each movie being it's own story, yet at the same time building into a much bigger narrative.
It's a shame that they've become so sloppy. Quantumania was fun in a way, but it has way too many plot holes. Written like amateurs on an unrealistic schedule.
It was a sloppy ending. They already explained that it was Kang tech that pulled them into the quantum realm and the device she made was designed to simply transmit signals. No way they had the power to create a new portal, pinpoint their location in a matter of minutes and get the back. That ending was bs to the highest degree. They nerfed Antman alot in this movie too, bro was goofy for the first half of it. Whole movie he could have turned big and won most of the fights they were in. How u gonna go from fight Thanos army to a coward like that, it’s not his first time.
I wanted this as well but think of it this way they can return to the realm and possibly leave with an army since the people were practically wanting them as a ruler
I mean this would’ve been the third ant man movie ending with him trapped in the quantum realm, so it doesn’t sound like that big of a cliffhanger tbh
I was expecting Scott to get stuck, then saw Hope and was like “oh okay” and then they got back to their portal and I’m like “oh…okay”
The movie should have ended with Scott and Hope in the quantum realm. The portal could have opened the same way just a minute after they get stuck but the Cassie who pulls them through is like 65 years old. Scott and Hope are then brought to the far future where they see the world conquered by Kang to set up the next series of movies
Marvel hire this guy
1:50 Oh that's a Disney movie.
This is so accurate to what is happening right now. I feel like all of the big movie corporations are just dying out because they aren’t remembering what people really love. I was trying to find something to explain it and this is PERFECT. Thank you matpat for all of the amazing videos and I hope that your channel thrives longer than these random character resolutions.
I don't like the "woman knows more than man because it is a woman even when the woman has done nothing and the man is an established character" trope. (She hulk, ant man's daughter)
Yes. MatPat and his team perfectly described what the issue is, when so many others miss the point.
We cannot forget the pandemic happened just because we want to move on from it. It negatively affected the movie making process and companies NEVER had to adjust to something like this before. So they have been making bad decisions out of inexperience for what to do.
But Marvel said they will slow down production, which seems they already figured out the problem MatPat is saying.
Everything feels so lazy which is hilarious when you consider all the money and tech that goes into these movies.
A bunch of bean counters are dictating how art is made, and the results are very bad.
Marvel’s been at the top for too long. They need some good strong competition. Maybe they’d start to be critical and fan favorite films again.
This should have been a kang solo movie. It's a fresh idea that we get to follow the villian perspective as he grows, and we could have seen kang go full ham on a different universe's avengers
Love this idea, but I would love to see it kind of how infinity war was Thanos‘s movie featuring the avengers. I think that would be really helpful for Kang as well!!
I'm hoping that's what they do with Kang dynasty
Yeah, they didn't care about Scott at All
It would of been hilarious if kang was doing research on Scott and sees him promoting his book, and even his family saying he's a sell out now. 😂😂 It would of been even funnier and been justified reasons why kang thinks little of the Ant-Man lol
@@batsaubattler3200 but then that's just rinse repeat of Infinity War-iWar was through Thanos' POV he was the protagonist. If Kang is the protag in Kang Dynasty that's just them telling us we're getting a spedrun version iWar but less good.
You should do a theory on how fast Hammy runs in Over The Hedge, after he drinks the soft drink as there is a seen where a sensor light beam is turned on but travels in slow mo while Hammy continues to move normaly
The whole point is everyone just wants to see some good characters and how they overcome their short-comings, we literally don't want characters representing groups of people to suddenly appear and be like oh I'm this perfect character -_-
This theory makes so much sense too with how the trailers seemed to position this movie - with lines like “you lied to me” and “we both just have to lose” feeling more relevant to a mysterio-like twist. If I were a part of the production team at Marvel, this would be a very helpful breakdown of why there was an audience disconnect and what was so special about these franchises to capture going forward. One of your best videos, great job.
Marvel marketing has sucked for a long long time. After MoM I swore never to buy a pre release marvel ticket again!
‘Cause anyway thought Mysterio wasn’t a bad guy… right?
I did think it was a bit odd when Scott and Cassie got captured by the rebels together and then Cassie had already drank the ooze before Scott was brought out. That felt like there were supposed to be some scenes where they were supposed to be separated.
Because Cassie is so “for the people” she obviously trusted the gooo……I really didn’t like her character . She completely underestimates her dad has risked his life several times and missed many years of her life - now she wants him to go do it again.
You should really go over the connected lore of the Disney Junior lineup, specifically the three show Jake and the Neverland Pirates, Sofia the First, and Elena of Avalor. These three preschool shows are more than what they seem on the surface level, they are filled with lore about what exactly makes Neverland so magical, the fact that all Disney princesses exist in the same universe, the history of the kingdom of Avalor and the magic that surrounds it, and so much more.
The way you explained this old vs young generation narrative actually sounds really compelling. I wish we could see the movies as they were originally planned.
Judging from the trailers., it seemed Kang was trying to negotiate with Scott by giving him "time" with his daughter in return for his help. That might have been the original story.
Absolutely! I forgot about that. Even at the beginning of the movie, missed time seemed like a major theme that would’ve been so interesting and hit way harder, but somehow drifted out of the plot.
Misleading trailer I guess
YEA RHATS WHATBIM THINKIJG
literally i thought the whole theme about the movie was the idea of time and how humans spend it
That's exactly what happened in the movie. Kang tried to negotiate with Scott for that exact reason. Exchanging time with his daughter for help escaping the quantum realm.
I really, REALLY hope Marvel listens to people like Mat. They’re literally TELLING them what they’re doing wrong.
They're too proud and vain to listen. People have been saying the same things since Endgame, but the Disnoids went along with it. Now the brand is tarnished, and there's no going back.
Sheep
Brand dilution is always the most expectable tool from uncreatives playing it safe while ruining our nostalgia or fandoms.
I believe they have. They pushed marvels out by months.
But they won't because they won't admit they have made a massive mistake...
I feel like a lot of movies in the MCU were rushed because of covid, and they needed to get all of phase 4 out before the deadline they made for phase 5. While other movies, like Shang-Chi, were already in the works before Covid.
Yeah I think Mat was on to something here.
Oh my gosh yes! I thought it was just me being too "attached" to the older MCU (so the og 6 Avengers, Engame era, etc) and definitely haven't been super excited for the newer phase(s). So to hear the discussion of fans going out to see the movies because they liked the characters and the stories is so validating. I feel like (and honestly I'm sure this is due to the whole post-COVID rush) we haven't had enough time to get attached to/form those connections to these characters yet and I'm sure the heavy load of "required" viewing isn't helping either. To me it feels like we barely have time to digest one story before we're thrown into another one, which again I'm sure is due in part to the the rush and whatnot, but honestly it's just frustrating and kinda disheartening as a viewer/fan/consumer.
I liked how ya showed the hours of MCU content and how much we’ve gotten this last year. That does explain why I’m feeling kinda burnt out
It's franchise fatigue.
Tbh hated the fact that i have to watch Series to keep up with MCU especially when the series sometimes feels weak. Too much content, hence i stopped watching all together
@@ammarbaaguImagine thinking you have to xatch all of mcu to get caught up when you really dont have to because there are billion of recaps out there
@@captaintoet1983 Won't viewing experience hinder if he just watches the recaps?
@@thelightwing818 not if you pick the right ones. Also it's personal preference. Do you want to know and spot all the details and eastereggs? Then its going to be very rough. Do you want to watch your favourite mcu shows and get the gest of what is happening elsewhere in the mcu? Watch your show and recaps and still be dissapointed about phase 4
For some reason from the lines in the trailer I assumed the plot would be that Kang was going to make a deal with Scott to give him more time with Cassie that he missed in the quantum realm for 5 years. To give him a chance to see her grow up. I feel like whether that was the plan or not that sounds like a better film lmao
True but that might put attention on the whole "remember when Stark * could * have reset ALL the damage and fallout, across the ENTIRE universe.......but said nope because of his 1 child?" issue.
It doesn't fit with Scott's character at all
@@captainsprinkles6557 it doesn’t fit Scott’s character to want more than anything to be a father to his daughter?
@@lucas_wintle He went back in time with the Avengers to save trillions of people, and not a single one of them was his daughter. He's not gonna throw everyone he just saved back under the bus. It might fit a random father, but not Scott.
Tony ripped off invincible lol.
Personally I really liked this movie and at first I didn’t really think there was anything wrong with it. But when you mentioned Scott willing agreeing to kang and Scott and Hope needing being trapped and needing help from younger hero’s and all that other stuff. That made me realize that this move had the opportunity to be so much better.
Yeah, it was an alright movie and it's got some strong points that I really like, but it definitely leaves you wanting
3:23
I think the Flag Smashers could've been handled better in the show, but they were on to something. Seeing you bring Cassie up was a nice comparison, I think that could've made for an interesting plot thread idea in hindsight. (I have no idea when each of these were written, so there might not've been a way to coordinate them) I think it could've been an interesting idea if she was involved with The Flag Smashers, being influenced by their ideals and wanting to actually do stuff. Maybe that could be a plot thread idea for Patriot whenever he shows up again post Falcon & Winter Soldier.
When even the actors start talking publicly about how inhuman and strange it is to work on these sets… you know there is a problem…
I agree with you 100%. Phase four was messy and it makes me miss the old mcu. Things really changed in a short period of time…
Then never read the comics. It changed even faster and you wouldn't recognize most the characters now if you have only watched the movies. Specially the X-Men. Those comics are a disaster of biblical proportions.
It really went from killing a big strong guy to the fact that there are multiple different universes that can be connected but if they are then bad things happen.
they make right choice for use title "Endgame".
@@markcarpenter6020 But that took A LOT of time in the cómics until they had to use things to try to make unique stories like time travel or travel to other universe
@@mateoreyes6921 that's cause the movies are jumping over a LOT of comic history straight to the "all new, all different" era of marvel.
I like how he furnished so many efforts into this theory
Bro this move is underrated I love it
The biggest thing I want to see in phase 5 is for someone to finally acknowledge the new continent the Eternals left behind.
It did say they will return sooooo
Apparently that’s gonna be a big deal in Captain america 4
I feel like marvel themselves is trying to forget about eternals as a whole
@@shivamsud i think they did mention it in she-hulk
@@jamilbarbee6169 i skipped that series after the 2-3 episode....but now that u mention it ...its pretty fitting
The main problem with Quantumania is that they were too afraid of Ant-Man flopping again so they turned it into a 2 hour long trailer for Avengers 5, and then they totally forgot to give the characters any arc or type of story lol
Broooo these bots are too much
Lmao wow. Y'all forgot this is part of a trilogy? It's completing a separate story while continuing another.
And it still flopped
@@dc_galaxy1416 continuing what story? 🤣 no character arcs or anything
My problem with your comment is that it completely ignores the whole Cassie and Scott storyline happening as they come to trust each other. It just feels like these type of comments are all regurgitating the same incorrect take some content creator had on TikTok
I went to the movie theater a while ago. I was very underwhelmed and my favourite part was also that I found out that Ant Man was in Quantumania.
The way MCU is worked out was like this graceful ballet that started kinda mellow and picked up the pace to something more and more engaging. Then someone tripped and everyone just went out of step and fell all over each other in utter chaos. I am baffled that the tried and true lessons from the decades of comics could be ignored and sidelined from inept custodians of such a sizeable chunk of American pop culture.
RIP Mr. Stan Lee, your cameos were truly the seal of trust for MCU.
I just want Marvel to go back to each film telling a complete story. Every film just seems like it's made to build up to some other later story, that just never comes. Every movie just feels like a promo.
I think that marvel is dead my friend
Agreed
Now this I agree with
*every property just feels like a promo
Here’s the root of the problem: Bob Chapek. In the 2 years he ran Disney he took control away from creatives and gave it to number crunchers. When that happens you get stories that won’t make sense and too many corners are cut.
My biggest issue with Quantumania is how little Janet's secrecy made sense.
Forbidding to engage with the Quantum Realm without reason, instead of saying: "Hey, I accidently helped a multiverse hopping genocidal dictator rise to power, but trapped him, so maybe don't go down there and give him a way out."
Or she could have been the inciting factor, since she had no opportunity to go back since Thanos happened: "I have to go back down and fix this. Help the people down there defeat Kang."
But no. Instead she was a "women be crazy" stereotype.
Yea just bad writing
In my brain I assume she was cheating on her husband with Kang. And was too scandalized to admit it to her family. Also they made a 65 yr old woman look as attractive as possible while making Evangeline Lilly look horrible. What’s with that hair? Tired of being called pretty? Didn’t make sense to me. Lots of things didn’t make sense.
@@erroneous6947 yea Lilly looked awful.
I found it funny when Bill Murray was dropping the “she is hiding stuff from you” stuff and the whole time Janet was looking at him and smiling like “why are you saying these things? I don’t want you to say these things but I need to look friendly”
I’ve seen people make that face before and I thought it was funny and weird that was her face while being revealed to be hiding major secrets from her family.
Janet's secrecy, I'm assuming, is just a really bad Marvel™ take of the "Should victims speak out to protect other victims, even if they don't want to?" argument. In theory it could be a good plot point, but was handled horribly and wrote as a one-dimensional story-line
Formulaic art is an existential dread of the artist, with every completed work, the artist knows that the style one work older. The artist lives with this knowledge that, as much they can push it, innovate themselves; there will come a time when "formula and derivation" will knock on their door.
The moment that really cemented this idea of a completely redone film on my second watch was when janet asked hank (or Henry? Am I crazy or do they use both?) if he had her back and he said always as if it was gonna be a callback but it never was
The idea of Kang’s deal being a much bigger plot point would also make much more sense. Kang should have offered the same deal to Scott that he did to Janet. He would now have the option to get back all the time he has lost with his daughter. That’s how the trailers made it seems like the movie was going to go also. That would have been a very interesting character dilemma Scott would have had to face and fits in with him and Cassie’s divide.
This! In the meantime, while this movie sucked real bad, there is always my comic book series, The Pensuke Files! You can see it by watching my videos and content. Wanna watch and see?
He was a cool character and a good actor. But when Scott made that deal, I was like "yeah he's going to 'break their deal'"
Also, the w@keness.
@@ramonandrajo6348 Ok, I know "wokeness" can ruin something, but can you be a little more specific?
MCU has been pretty known for misleading some details in trailers. But, goddamn this is just false marketing
I love how in the recap of the plot MatPat passively just completely destroys the plot, just letting it all out. We all feel you Mat
Hello Declan
❤🎉
Guardians of the galaxy vol. 3 was actually really good. At least it seems like the writers for that movie knew what they were doing😅
I swear that what you said is what I thought the movie was supposed to be. The first trailer I saw for Quantumania, I thought that Scot was entirely willing to go with Kang's go-find-me-a-thing deal in order to protect Cassidy.
It's easy to see what happened story wise, they were making a story that basically said "The kids are right, the olds are wrong" and it didn't fly with some studio execs who made them redo it in the cheapest way possible.
That's far to easy of a answer.
@@Kanaweish And yet considering it's Hollywood and even Disney hasn't been able to fully go all out on that idea, I wouldn't put it past them.
Correction it didn't fly with test audiences since they tend to be the people with disposable income...or the "olds"
@@markcarpenter6020 f**king boomers, ruining not only our future, but movies as well....
@@andrewmathewson341 no more than likely gen X and millennials(probably millennials since most gen X is near near 50 now). Boomers(most actual boomers are 65and over now) are too old for marvel movies and gen Z dosent have the disposable income yet.
Honestly the phrase at the end "We both just have to lose" was the coolest thing ever and it made sense cause there's no way Antman was or is powerful enough to beat Kang
Yet he ended up winning anyway
Like I love Paul as Antman and definitely don't want him gone
But that was the waste of such a good line and character moment
It just falls flat continuously
Seriously if ant man stayed stuck there as he should have, maybe with wasp joining him this time it would have felt right
heck, even him "losing" and being stuck in the quantumverse could've been an ideal plot for another movie.
Shift the character focus and make it about saving him.
I mean, they did it before in Pirates Of The Carribean after Jack Sparrow was eaten by the Kraken...
I mean he lost. Hope won. By sheer dumb luck of Kang standing in the wrong spot.
9:43 this one makes the most sense, MCU writers SHOULD WATCH THIS
I can relate after watching it I found myself unsatisfied by the way it went some of the lines felt out of place and problems that they didn’t talk about later
If Kang attempted to frame himself as the good guy like Mysterio did, then offered Scott more time with his daughter like we all thought, this movie would've been infinitely better.
The only way they can make Kang threatening at this point is by turning Kang into like a better version of Ultron. Since he exists in every timeline and all of his selves are aware of it maybe there's one Kang hanging back soaking in all the experiences of the others so every time the Avengers beat him he's learning. So while we're seeing Kang get beaten over and over again it's all do the detriment of the Avengers who will have to fight the boss mode version of Kang where he's seen enough of the Avengers beating him to know how to counter them.
I actually think Ultron is out there somewhere. I'd like to think that Hammer has it on a flash drive somewhere... But idk if the MCU would do that.
@@jasonstraight1320 what? Hammer was nowhere near Ultron when he was created
I love that idea and I bet we won't get to see it
Nah since people don't think a Kang who was winning and only beaten by the luckiest of all shots is threatening they probably won't think he's threatening at if he doesn't end up the ultimate winner and personally resets the MCU or something.
Matpat put to words what i myself couldnt have even expressed, my family watched everything phase 1-3 religiously, but everything since phase 4 started has felt weird and different and its not a priority in our lives anymore, and matt has pinned down exactly why
marvel feels like my fave subject in school got a new teacher and now it's my least fave class and every assignment (or movie release) feels like genuine homework rather than a fun little project that i can do over one or two weekends.
I feel the quote "It is often worse than you hoped, but better than you feared." matches my reaction to this movie along with much of the audiences.
Honestly same
What quote is this?
@@Rohmiesworld Its from the KSP youtuber shadowzone lol
My mom and I watched Multiverse of Madness. She's not a huge fan of Marvel and both of us despised it.
When I watched a podcast reviewing Quantamania ame they said it wasn't as bad as MOM, I told her that and she said:
“That's really setting the bar low.”
It pissed me off the most that somehow Janet just never once thought to mention a super evil genius that has the possibility to take over the entire universe due to some weird PTSD from kang
That star trek reference is from my favorite episode
It'll also be interesting to see how the strike plays into all this.
VERY!!
There's a fan theory going around that proves why the second portal saving them at the end makes sense. It's not HIS Cassie, but a world created by the Kang Council to keep Ant-Man complacent. That's why everything seems to be working out for him all of a sudden. And also why he's got a nagging feeling that something isn't right. I'm hoping this is true because that opens up a great plot being stuck in the wrong universe, Stepford Wives-esque paranoia
Oof
That sounds amazing!
It would give this movie some sort of purpose
That fan theory is further evidence of the lengths people will go to redeem bad writing when they've bought into a brand. The question is, how much longer will that buy-in last? When the good will runs out, so do the charitable fan theories.
also in the trailers with kang, it seemed like he was promising scott he would have a sort of redo with cassie’s childhood, but that motivation wasn’t evident at all in the actual movie. it wouldve added to the idea that while the younger generation is trying to fix things for the future, Scott is tempted by wanting to redo the past.
I think THAT was the actual initial plan for the film
@@dosomestuff1949 agree! That was a part of the trailer that I figured would be huge
I really love this channel so much the way it reveals hidden theories in flims and can you guys please do me a favor in dragonball super manga that fish that lives with beerus and whis said that there will be a person surpassing goku and vegeta who did it refer to 😞😞
My favorite theory ever has to be the idea that humans have been praying to something acting as a god but is more a Sheppard of humans, it’s not watching over us to be nice, but to prepare us for slaughter so they can eat. (Nothing to do with marvel was just thinking about it.)
I could be incorrect, but I distinctly remember Kang shooting Scott with one of the lasers and it just pushed him back. Then I distinctly remember saying, "Wait I thought those were disintegration lasers". After that the tension was non-existent for me. I haven't seen it since opening weekend, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Nope, you're right, it does do that, with a fair bit of force and returning him to his standard size, but no lasting damage. The only possible explanation I have other than plot armour is, well, the literal armour of his suit?
You wouldn't think it would be mega-durable, as a shrinkage suit used by a guy whose strategy is to avoid attacks, but considering it seems to take a lot to damage his suits in each movie and he's taken hits from other Avengers and so on, and there's always the "it can withstand shrinkage and growth and pressure and stuff" argument...
I'm not saying it's perfect, but I can kinda rationalise it? It would be nice to see some suit damage to drive home how powerful Kang is, but I can get why Ant-Man is more durable than the other guys without taking main-character status into account? I don't know.
@@stevenbobbybills I mean war machine lights him up in civil war and it doesn't really affect him at all. I know bullets aren't comparable to this but it at least proves the existence of some time of armor.
I thought Kang was pulling his punches against the heroes of the rebellion so he could let them leave and think they won and GTFO so he could resume control immediately afterwards with less resistance and Scott saw him sneaking back into the room right before he went home. He probably only noticed because of his background of a thief and then security expert.
@@Jundas I don't think letting the leave was ever part of his plan. Maybe I missed it but I don't think it was communicated at all. Unless you mean he faked getting trapped in the machine, but I think the after credits heavily imply that that Kang is if not dead, at least never coming back.
@@Bomber103378014 I mean when everyone is going home and Ant-Man suddenly stays. Kang said if he had just looked the other way he would have got to live.
What I thought was weird was that they didnt make a bigger deal of Kang's promise to leave their universe alone and only go after other universes.
That is like the ultimate "not our problem." like the main conflict between Scott and Cassie. Like is it our job to act even if it doesn't involve us.
They never had a moment where any character even considered it was an option to save themselves and their own universe at the cost of others.
They then could have had Cassie convince them that they had to act for the good of all and not just themselves.
Just seems like a big chance for plot conflict they just dropped.
Hi The Film Theorists I love this and I hope you have a good day and you are awesome
im gonna admit the photoshopped smiles that look deformed like at 10:45 have always creeped me out
Lmao I didn't expect a thorough media critique on this channel. This hit the nail right in the head. Good job , MatPat and Team.
yeah the theory that kang was initially going to befriend scott makes sense. look at the first trailer where kang says "so, what'll it be... Antman?" he was clearly proposing some sort of deal and plan and if you compare to the actual movie, kang doesnt even know who scott was, so him referring to scott by calling him antman makes him almost endearing, showing that he recognizes scott as a heroic figure that is worthy of being remembered.
He does know who Ant-Man in the movie is though, there's a line after Scott agrees to get the Macguffin where Kang says something along the lines of "you're out of your league.... Ant-Man" before releasing him. He tried to butter him up by "mistaking" him for the strongest avenger, and then once he saw it wasn't working, he dropped the act and belittled him.
@TheParkerThirteen truuuue but he also asks if
A) Have I killed you before?
B) Are you the one with the hammer
He gets to know scott eventually but yeh no this dudes right, kang doesn't know an antman
You know in the dark knight is it possible that heath ledgers joker was the man in Burma that Alfred was talking about and his scars were because of the flames and he is insane because either the heat made him go mad or he was what Alfred described him as ?
TIL that the FedEx logo has a hidden arrow and now I can't *un*see it. So thanks for that.
In my opinion, MCU's main problem is the fact that every single film starts a new saga of it's own, and that creates quite a few loose ends.
Exactly.....MCU is becoming too people pleasing and therefore is pleasing no one....they are trying to smush in soo many ideas into one movies that none of them feels completely realised....just an unsatisfying mess
This, to me, feels like executives making decisions above creatives head. I believe there was, like Mat suspects, a coherent and probably ok movie. But somebody higher up wanted a different ending and a different story entirely and didn't give enough time
Welcome to the Disney era
And here I thought matpat was going to make the connection of kangs technology with Shang shi's rings, the protection dome kang was creating had similar markings and style to his ten rings and puts the timeline as antman Quantumania followed by Shang shi where something "activated" the rings like a homing beacon at the end of the movie
Never new the thing about FedEx till you told me. Thanks MatPat, I will never be able to unsee it ever again.
1. it would have been really cool if they made it so janet was really working with kang
2. scott and hope shouldn't have gotten out of the quantum realm. it was meant to be 'this is your only chance, you have to go home now', but they just opened another portal, getting rid of all the danger
3. young avengers. i think the kang dynasty will have the young avengers as the heroes, and in the comics they even defeat kang
There were certain scenes in this movie where I was seriously questioning if I hadn't accidentally bought a ticket for Spy Kids 5
Hate the new MCU phase 5, the CGI is more and more sieste. You feel it’s so green screen and all the young kids. There terrible
Hey, that's offensive to Spy Kids
Absolutely true
Spy Kids was bonkers, but at least it told a coherent, emotionally fulfilling story with actual character development.
@@lynnthomas8457 exactly
Yep. Agree. This is the first Marvel movie I didn't see in the cinema. I was excited about the idea of Kang being introduced, but when the marketing was centred mostly around him, it just felt like comic book fan service for the sake of it.
Also, M.O.D.O.K is one of my favourite villains, and his treatment was disappointing.
I felt the exact same about the film feeling like it had been cut down, glad to hear I wasn't the only one
I'd like to see a Kang only film that just go through all the horror and trauma that kang sees through the multiverse that makes him convinced his ideas the right one
but how would they apply the jokes in an all horror movie? i mean u guys loved jokes right? thats why we're here coz asshats like you defended the MCU and their stupid jokes for the ENTIRE infinity saga
YESS !!! Frrr
After watching the theory, still crazy to think about how much COVID affected our entertainment, makes you wonder how media such as MCU Phase 4 were meant to originally play out had there been no pandemic lasting years (1 example is how FATWS originally had a storyline revolving around stopping a virus as far as I remember).
The plot for that turned out to be fake
I don’t think the pandemic affected phase 4 too much Spider-Man made almost 2 billion phase 4 just sucked
@@Robtop-ml4svdetermining how the pandemic affected releases isn’t based on the box office earnings of a single movie but the quality of all of them. Marvel is obviously not doing so great quality wise even if they are still financially successful
Hey matpat, are u gonna wrap up the cliffhanger you left in your gravity falls Bill Cipher LIVES video?
What you said around the 14:51 minute mark is literally what I’ve been saying to a coworker. I don’t want fan servicing scenes, I want impactful scenes that add to the story and the emotion
It seems that Stan Lee was the only one that actually knew what the fans truly wanted and actually knew how to deliver it. Now that he's gone marvel is having a hard time living up to his legacy.
This is funny, because stan lee doesn't write nor direct. He's only there to have his glorified cameo.
@@derek2288 imo, the marvel movies were still done with care and respect (most of the time) when he was still around. Idk if it's a coincidence but when Stan Lee died, the mcu started to get noticeably "greedier", preffering quantity > quality and making one movie after another that Stan Lee would definitely be appalled of.
edit: yeah turns out that was just a coincidence, the main contributing factor of why their movies started turning into shi+ was COVID and in their attempt to carry the movie industry on its back like one of the comments said, they started churning out one movie/series after another at the price of what made the MCU movies enjoyable back then. Still doesnt excuse the dumpster fire that is phase 4, but it explains why it became the way it did.
Part of the problem seems to be the fans only half watch the movie and then make up what happened in their own heads.
@@bored_potato no he wouldn't lol. Lee liked all the cruddy dark ages marvel movies.
@@bored_potatono it was very obviously because of Covid. Marvel single handedly carried the movie industry on its back
What bothers me most is that appearantly every second 18 year old is born with the same technical ingenuity that Stark built up over a decade and a traumatic experience.
Just instead of building a really strong suit, they achieve what would be considered a scientific wonder.
Reminds me of a Spiderman comic which revealed that the average GPA has become super skewed thanks to so many young genius teenagers and every other kid had to invest in super-powered cheating techniques, like getting a Skrull to take an exam for you or making deals with Mephisto.
Iron heart is the only one in the comics that is a genius, but Kate bishop,Casey, they've been buffed in intelligence, they're not this smart in the comics.
@@michealrosen even then, Iron Heart in the comics... I hated her. She just out of nowhere shows up, is somehow smarter than Tony Stark, and takes his place. I really wish they never added her in the MCU
Iron heart and Shuri are know for their intelligence.
They never explained how Ant-Man's daughter could build a quantum machine so easily.
0:41 yes. That experience is EXTREMELY fresh in my mind.
It's unfortunate that Disney isn't known for releasing "Director's Cut"s of their properties.
Cassie: Troublemaker who goes to jail.
Also Cassie: Genius who makes a quantum telescope.
You took too many D&D cards. Put one of them back please.
Real life isn’t DnD tho
@@frogs3338 How many astronauts were former felons? That's what I thought.
@@shapeshiftingpedro Former felons wouldn’t get hired, Cassie was never hired.
@@frogs3338 •
@@shapeshiftingpedro There are also different types of smart. Someone can be book smarts and tech smarts but still be dumb.
Matt put it so eloquently and especially with his summary of the plot and what he expected to happen then ripppp it got changed is literally what everyone seems to have expected the plot to have been. It's what the story set up so it should've followed through with it if it wasn't going to meaningfully subvert our expectations
Edit: totally agree I was expecting this slow reveal to Kang that really builded the tension to make us care about him as the next big bad. But then he was totally butchered. People have argued what's scary about Kang is how many versions of him there are so there's more to come but all this movie did was set up that Kang can be pretty weak if against the right variant. If they had still rushed him out as they did they could've at least put some stakes to the movie like a major death to prove to us he had some strength and characters weren't immune by plot armour.
Tbh I think that Kang definitely was not as weak as you say he is. Don't forget all he had was his broken down ship to build from.
Matpat MUST make a film theory on the movie "Hereditary", its literally one of the greatest horror movies of this century with quite a complex story with lore hidden all over and its surprising Matpat did not make a video on it cuz it is exactly the kind of movie that would get talked about on Film Theorist. There is still so much to explain in that movie.
At the Hollywood premiere of this film, you could see everyone needlessly fawning over Jonathan Majors while Paul Rudd got pushed into the background. Their instructions were to focus on Majors since he's the new "big villain" and "story arc character" for the next MCU phase. It was truly cringing to watch.