ZODIAC (2007) - WTF REALLY Happened to this Movie?
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- čas přidán 15. 12. 2020
- WTF REALLY Happened To This Movie? - The series that dives into movies based on TRUE stories, REAL people and ACTUAL historical events to separate FACT from FICTION!
After 50 years, the mysterious cipher of the Zodiac Killer has finally been solved by amateur codebreakers. Back in 2007, director David Fincher explored the confounding case of this notorious killer in the thriller ZODIAC. But how closely did his film follow the actual known events? We investigate "WTF REALLY Happened to ZODIAC!"
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I remember one of the actors (either Downey Jr. or Gyllenhaal) saying that the level of detail in the newsroom setting was so insane that there were historically accurate pencils *inside* the desk drawers.
That's David Fincher for you. Recreating everything as perfectly as possible. The irony is though despite all the little details in this movie being accurate to the time and setting, the reoccurring accusations against suspect Arthur Leigh Allen are way off.
All that historical accuracy is thrown out the window when some idiot leaves their Starbuck cup in a shot. I know it didn't happen in this movie, just saying. Things like Starbucks shouldn't be allowed on set, unless poured into another cup or glass.
@@brownsamurai3070 Bit of a digression, since, as you said, that didn't happen in this movie. But I worked as a script supervisor for a while (long, long ago), and forbidding Starbucks cups on set would be like using a wine cork to keep a dam from breaking. There are always tons of "intruding elements" on set, brought in by both cast and crew. When it's not personal objects, then it's the very tools used to make the movie/TV show. Sure, everyone on set is supposedly responsible for their stuff, but it's up to the script supervisor to make sure that there's nothing on the shot that is not supposed to be there. And this may sound like a simple "You Had One Job!" case to some, but it really is not. That is just one of the many tasks the script supervisor is meant to perform, and of course, the more intricate the production (particularly in historical, fantasy, or sci-fi settings), the harder the work, and the more likely it is that something will slip up. Particularly when everyone is in a hurry to get things done, which is the default environment in movie sets.
tl;dr People do their best, but shit happens. They're not idiots, but overworked professionals who got distracted for a moment that, sadly, was immortalized on screen.
@@brownsamurai3070 are you sure you're not talking about GoT's? Or did this happen in the Zodiac as well?
@@jimsty5222 I explicitly said _I know this didn't happen in this movie, just saying_ Yes, I was referencing GoT for an example. I was saying all the painstaking steps it takes to make sure everything is historically accurate can get squashed by something as simple as someone leaving a modern day disposable coffee cup in the scene or even on the set.
"I want to report a murder... no, a double murder"
How he turns her over and continues to stab her, and she can see the knife going into her body repeatedly, was absolutely chilling.
loved that scene.
Gave me blood flow
omg it made me super 💦 lol 😜
An extremely terribly scary and sad scene! It was dreadful to watch, and it was very disturbing, indeed.
@@dying101666, you’re trolling, as no healthy well-adjusted adult human being would enjoy that scene. It was heartbreaking. The young woman in real life survived for 2 days in the hospital, and then she died due to those wounds inflicted upon her by the worthless piece of flesh who was the murderer.
My favorite film of the 2000s and Fincher's masterpiece. Every performance, every costume, every setting, every music choice - PERFECTION. A must-watch for film students, film buffs, lovers of police procedurals/thrillers and anyone who just loves a great story being told.
Fincher's best by far! When Gyllenhal goes down the basement, you could cut that tension with a knife.
Don't u dare to compare this with " fight club ".
2007 really was a top tier year for movies! (There Will Be Blood, No Country for Old Men, Sunshine, Into the Wild, Juno, Stomp the Yard) lol
No country and Into the wild were the best
@@Thatguy55595 There Will be Blood was the best, imo.
What are they doing?
They're stomping the yard. Where've you been?
Into the wild was okay the rest of the movies you mentioned are terrible lop
Assassination of Jesse James
Zodiac is one of the best films of the 2000s. It’s a shame the Oscars didnt recognize it.
Really? Never seen it, I have to check it out!
What happened?
Fincher made an amazing film.
Yes, nuff said
This movie was soooo disturbing and intense to watch. Every scene was just dripping with dread. The cast was also amazing.
One of the best film of 2007.
I enjoyed this movie from the first viewing and have watched it A dozen times since then. Bizzarly, I watched it again today.
These video titles always make me think he hated the movie.
And RDJ playing an alcoholic? I’ll bet that was a stretch.
the basement scene
@@MA-mg4cd Most intense scene in the movie.
That daylight lakeside stabbing affected me more than any death I’ve ever watched on screen. Something about the picturesque setting and it being daytime just disturbed me to no end.
no time is safe time and no place is safe place.
And the way she was squirming around. Zodiac always made sure the women died but wasn’t as good with the men. He left two live witnesses so not a very good killer after all. The scary and horrific thing is the girl at the lake didn’t die right away. She was still alive when the police got there and was giving them information as she was dying. Eesh.
This is Fincher's finest hour as a filmmaker. And that's saying a lot.
Makes you wonder what he could have done with the Alien IP if the studio and actors didn’t mess with him so much.
@@joehonest7074 truth!
@Move_I_Got_This his filmography is spectacular. I consider it his finest work. The mood and tension he created were amazing. But it's all a matter of opinion. I love all his films
@Move_I_Got_This think that’s kinda the point .
@Move_I_Got_This it was supposed to be anticlimactic because the zodiac case was anticlimactic. They never actually caught him, even though these guys who devoted their life to the case figured it out. They just had to accept that the case was gonna fizzle out and this killer was gonna go free. The tone of the ending was actually perfect.
This movie is a masterpiece and it only becomes more of a masterpiece when you familiarise yourself with the actual case files. It's as good as this story could be told. Fincher will never top it.
I just watched this movie again today. It's my favourite of Fincher's films. His ability to maintain audience interest and tension over three hours with such a detailed plot is no mean feat. Sensational storytelling and filmmaking
I don't know why, but I've rewatched this film so many times. Finchers attention to detail and the period setting is just perfect
The music is great too
I had this film sitting on my shelf for around 5 years before i finally watched it. Absolutely loved the film. Im not sad about waiting because i had an excellent film in my back catalog and didn't realize it.
Funny how that happens. Last summer I found a good price online for Joseph Losey's "Secret Ceremony" on bluray. I hadn't seen it, but I'm a big fan of Losey, and it was a Powerhouse Films release, and they do excellent work (they're like a British mini-Criterion Collection.)
The cast is great- Mia Farrow, Elizabeth Taylor, and Robert Mitchum, but for whatever reason the bluray sat on MY shelf for months, until 3 or 4 weeks ago. I finally watched it- and it blew my mind. Not everyone feels the same, apparently, but I think it's brilliant. And it's the best performance I've ever personally seen out of Mitchum. He's terrifying.
Had no idea the whole time, this film I would love was just sitting there.
I've seen Zodiac 6 times and it never gets old.
That scene with the couple being stabbed was so terrifying to watch. That movie was definitely keeping me on edge the entire time..
A really high quality and haunting film. Both stylish and realistic.
It used to be one of my favorites but now I've seen it so many times I can't stand it, lol.
I remember Mark Ruffalo saying that he filmed one scene in Zodiac with other actors over 80+ times.. This happened in several scenes. David Fincher is apparently a perfectionist.. 😁😂
And the end result is a perfect film.
Except he failed to expose THE REAL ZODIAC. Here the egomaniac exposes himself so watch closely.... czcams.com/video/NkR0i4hLIlA/video.html
@@LanceVanceDance84 It's pretty damn close to perfect.
Or he could've planned better and stop tormenting his crew
I was working in a cinema whilst studying at university when this film was released. I remember people coming out of the screenings pissed off that it didn't have a happy ending, or an ending that answered all questions. However, for me, that's the best bit of the film. I like that we are left with questions, theories and ideas. If you want to watch a movie and not need to think; that's fine, however, I really enjoy a movie that allows me to form my own ideas and use my own imagination. This is a great movie and horribly under appreciated.
I also think the film does have a clear ending....they believe Lee was the Zodiac.
@@drewfleming5584 Which is what Graysmith argues in his book. But he also claimed to have solved Zodiac's 340 cipher. However this Cipher was legitimately solved in late 2020.
Graysmith is a hack.
what i dont understand is that if people wanted a happy and conclusive ending, why watch a film based on one of the most graphic and unsettling unsolved true crime stories of all time? humanity often confuses me
Yep that lake scene murder was definitely the most gruesome.
I actually had to shut it off and resume it later cause it hit hard
technically theres more gore in most movies but its divorced from reality - this one in zodiac actually felt like real people getting stabbed
I love this movie it’s definitely rewatchable for me...
Irish Joe, makes 2 of us lulz
Every frame of this movie is genius.
Also, the special edition dvd/bluray of this film is amazing. The accompanying documentary about the real life Zodiac-case is one of the best "special features" I've seen on any disc. It's a legitimate film all its own.
Both commentary tracks are great, but the track with James Ellroy needs to be experienced by literally everyone. He is a madman, but his many insights are as genuinely compelling as they are hilarious.
Completely agree with everything you said 😊. Lots of great information. One of the best audio commentaries I can think of.
I believe this is Fincher's masterpiece. It's hard to think of a film that better explores how the human toll of murder ripples out far past physical violence.
Spielberg's "Munich" comes to mind. Or Sidney Lumet's "The Offence". Both are also excellent films depicting the emotional/psychological effects of violence. I just feel "Zodiac" is unparalleled in its depiction of how those effects linger long after violence has occurred, intruding into and compromising the professional and personal lives of everyone directly involved- or who choose to be.
One of my all time favourites, and one of the best ensemble casts of all time. Up there with "JFK" imo.
Everyone is at the top of their game, Robert Downey Jr just owns every scene he's in and John Caroll Lynch is so brilliantly unsettling as Arthur Leigh Allen. Fincher needs to make more true crime movies
JFK was one of the worst, out of touch with reality films ever, and the "hero" of that film had a bizarre obsession with homosexuals
@@BeeHatGuy lol Is that really all you took from that film? Not the brilliant performances from the actors, The direction, the cinematography?
The whole point of that film was to show you the multiple theories of the assassination- one of which being that of Clay Bertrand/Shaw, David Ferry etc who were gay
The Mindhunter series is simply brilliant; if you haven't seen it PLEASE watch it!
I am drawn to this movie, the feel of the Era, the lack of a resolution, the creepy moments. My Mother worked at the SF Chronicle during this Era in the advertising department. To live in a City where a disturbed individual hunted without the Police being able to trap him must have been like living on a knife edge.
A similar analysis of Oliver Stone's _JFK_ would be interesting.
I agree. "JFK" is fascinating to me because I do not necessarily agree with the film's final thesis, but I feel the film itself is near-flawless genius. It makes me sad how Oliver Stone is sometimes seemingly forgotten as a filmmaker in the 21rst-century, and if anything many people still dismiss him as a "conspiracy nut".
The run he had in the late-80's to late-90's, from "Salvador" to "Any Given Sunday", is a *remarkable* body of work. He essentially created his own film grammar, starting with the hallucinatory fever dream of "The Doors", and eventually *perfected* (in my opinion) with the time-hopping political nightmarescape of "Nixon".
His visual style eventually reverted back to the more classic type he utilized in "Wall Street" and "Platoon", and the quality of his 21rst-century work is admittedly hit-and-miss (although I feel "W" and "World Trade Center" are criminally underrated), but for my money he will always be one of the truly great, distinctly American (for better or worse) filmmakers of all time.
When I watch "JFK", regardless whether I "believe" what I'm seeing, I feel like I'm watching a master in total control of his craft. It knocks me over every time.
@@mcnultyssobercompanion6372 Agree entirely, JFK is masterful. Apart from Snowden (which was a bit average) the last Stone-directed film I watched was Nixon (another fine film). Will check out W and World Trade your recommendation.
@@mcnultyssobercompanion6372 Right. I don't necessarily agree, either, because the rabbit hole of theories is very deep indeed--almost bottomless--and with many a side burrow. I'd just like to see an analysis of how accurate the movie is with what are the established facts, though even "established facts" can get dicey at times when it comes to the JFK assassination.
@@happyspaceinvader508 I think you'll (hopefully) be surprised by those films. What I particularly like about "World Trade Center" are the performances by the supporting cast (including an early small role by Jon Bernthal.)
Stephen Dorff plays a first responder digging out Nicholas Cage and Michael Pena. There's a line of dialogue where he's about to go into the "pit" of the Trade Center rubble, but first pauses to tell a random person his name (and his wife's name, if I remember correctly), in case anything "happens". It's not the flashiest scene, but there's a dignity in Dorff's line reading that's always moved me. I actually didn't even know it *was* Dorff until the closing credits.
It was the first film I ever noticed Michael Shannon. He plays a real life military individual who actually drove across the country to volunteer with rescue efforts. I remember *distinctly* taking note of Shannon's screen presence, which he's since parlayed into an admiral, wide-ranging film career.
Frank Whaley plays a former medic who, in real life, also took it upon himself to go downtown and assist in the rescues. He instills a fair amount of dignity into his small role.
As for "W's" cast, I've always felt Brolin was robbed of at least an Oscar nomination. Check out Jeffrey Wright as a Colin Powell beset upon by wariness and guilt, as well as Richard Dreyfuss nailing it as a scarily committed Dick Cheney.
Hope you like them.
@@Galantski I agree. I know several years ago I randomly stumbled upon a blog by some historian (?) who sort of went through all the various claims made in the film and attempted to debunked each. It read pretty convincing to me, but I'm hardly an expert. I wish I could link it, but that was a while ago.
It *would* make a great subject for a video. I remember on the commentary to "JFK" Oliver Stone at least admits the "suspicious hobos by the fence" (which the film implies were likely feds "in on it") has apparently been soundly debunked.
My guess is most of it can be. But I'm not qualified to say for certain.
What an uderrated gem!!! Besides FIGHT CLUB, this is my favourite Fincher film.
It's a very good movie. I highly enjoyed it.
Hulk, Ironman and Mysterio
Not real cinema
@@jaserf5292 HUH?
@@mjsupport78 you realized the actors in Zodiac played other characters in other films!?! Get this woman a Nobel prize immediately!
sigh
Marvel movies suck
That basement was so chilling. This is not a horror movie yet that scene really creeped me the f out.
Instead of CGI, Fincher had trees flown in!?!?!?
I really dislike 99.9999% of movies/tv but I love this one. Didn't know much about the Zodiac and it creeped me out that the murders happened in places I've been to a hundred times growing up in CA.
I feel like any Fincher movie is going to break the Truth-o-Meter.
this is one of my favorite movies ever,david is such a master
So we have iron man, the hulk and Misterio in the same film
Absolutely one of the greatest films ever made. Every moment is perfect to me.
I never liked his "Zodiac 37,SFPD 0" thing. Surely the SFPD have killed a few people.
SFPD is the softest police department in Cali.
Probably Finchers masterpiece. Didn't watch until this year and I'm pissed at myself for not getting round to it earlier.
The Hurdy Gurdy Man
That's a good song.
I love, love, love, love this movie! The scene with Charles Fleischer in the basement is one of the best suspense scenes in recent cinema! Fincher was going to do a similar crime feature on Cleveland's Torso Killer (the Mad Butcher of Kingsbury Run) but, sadly, the ticket sales for Zodiac shelved that project. Being from Cleveland, the Torso case is one that deserves more attention, especially since - like the Zodiac case - kind of writes itself, with a diabolical killer, and a famous crime fighter in pursuit.
That scene is haunting. I've seen other videos dedicated solely to that scene. There's that line "Not many people have basements in California" that just hits with such dread. The best part is the little smile the guy gives right at the end when he lets Graysmith out of his house, showing he was messing with him.
The torso killer case is so interesting that’s so sad that was never made
I like this case and your coverage of this film impresses me a great deal. Kind regards from Washington DC! Peace!
13:13 is this mr. Jingles from American Horror Story?
Yes
I thought you were going to mention the fact that the other cipher was just cracked. I love this movie
My favourite Fincher film, probably one of my all time top 10 films. The fact that the case remains unsolved makes it even more rewatchable i think.
Such a incredible film
an*
he might be the most dangerous guy in the nursing home right now
Some college kids just broke the Zodiacs code and are translating some of his letters.
One of my favorite Fincher films. He may sometimes be taxing & demanding to his actors, but the man does get results. The detail of this film is insane & the acting is fantastic
A film in my top ten. Absolutely love this. Seeing it in a theater was amazing too. Wishing and hoping for a 4K Blu-Ray release!!!
It's Melvin Bell "I" not Bell "E". Otherwise, a great WTF. The director's cut is the better version, highly recommned it for fans of Zodiac.
Young stupid schmucks...
How can he make that mistake when it's pronounced in the historical footage he's using?
@@mooveeluver I also noticed the mispronunciation of Toschi, making me wonder if the narrator had actually watched the film or is just reading a script...
@@mooveeluver do you make videos? I would love if you did since yours would be perfect with no mistakes.
@@hugh-johnfleming289 he’s a schmuck because of that? Jesus Christ
Funny this video got released days after they finally cracked the last of the cyphers well played joblo, well played.
They cracked them? How?
Thank you. Thank you very muuuuch
@@tylerdurden788 using a diagonal method and a computer, as well as knowledge of english. They made a list of all of the letters used. Q stood out. Knowing that E is the most used letter in english, they substituted E for Q. Things like that.
I love this movie. Watched it many times. I can't believe he flew oak trees in for that 2nd killing scene!!
Perfect timing. I just watched this the other day.
Its so crazy how they make movies. Just green screen a background that I thought was real lol
The actor who played Arthur Leigh Allen did a great job, and is a seriously underrated actor.
He was also in Fargo as the cop’s husband.
Very much needed episode for this gerat undervalued master´piece of the genre. Thanx!!!
I watch this video and my hearts breaks because I'm reminded that Mindhunter was cancelled.
I hear that. It was the only show really worth watching on Netflix.
Oh no! I didn’t know it was cancelled. So good.
As much as I love these videos I can’t help but notice that the narrator obviously doesn’t watch the films otherwise he would know that character is not named “Belly”.
His identity was just discovered- Gary F poste… that’s the zodiac killer - comment from ( 10/6/21) and he died in 2018… he was able to see a whole movie written about himself….
Zodiac and Memories of Murder are both great films.
Another great vid...but it's Melvin Bell-eye
What happened is it is an incredible movie. But this video is fascinating and I didn’t know all this stuff. Thanks
Nicely done. Thank you. You're the pro side of this channel.
zodiac is the thriller of nothing that tells how investigators never discovered anything
I used to work with the kid portrayed at 7:15 (about 20 years later) and it is stunning the family resemblance Gyllenhaal has.
Finally watched this film last night on netflix and i loved it, had me on the edge of my seat when he was at bob vaughn's house as soon as he said he had a basement
One does not simply question Finchers ocd.
One of my favorite movies of all time. I've seen it probably 20 times.
Sometimes it helps to take a Step back, and look at a Case from a new Perspective.
I'm kind of disappointed that you didn't mention that only just recently has one of the Zodiac's messages been deciphered via a computer algorithm.
What did the message say
also, in star wars ANH when luke skywalker says "i was going to the toschi station to pick up power converters", that is a reference to dave toschi.
DB Cooper is the Zodiac Killer
Interestingly, Arthur Leigh Allen was called by a pseudonym in Graysmith’s book, but by his real name in the movie. And it’s Marvin Bell-eye, not “Belly.”
One of 2000'a great movies of the decade. Great cast, wonderful directing. It could've gone over three hours and it would've been better
Even Ironman, the Hulk and Mysterio couldn't catch the Zodiac. LOL!
Merry Christmas Team JoBlo! Stay safe and blessed
Plot twist: Zodiac revealed as David Fincher
6:00. Great vid. Hate to be picky but Belli's name is pronounced bell-EYE.
One of the most underrated films in Fincher's filmography.
Great film. One of Fincher's best and that's saying a lot.
After watching Mank I immediately thought of this movie. Everyone agrees that it's great but few watch it, and fewer rewatch.
Thanks 😊 👍
Such an epically great film. Along with, "No Country for Old Men", the absolute best of 2007, in my humble opinion!
Do you have a WTF happened to Johnny Mnemonic? If not, we need one!!
Melvin Belli is pronounced Bell-aye
Also, don't give your kid the middle name Lee, nothing good will come of it.
Melvin Belly hahaha
SF Attorney Melvin Belli’s last name was pronounced “Bell EYE”. That’s his I’ve always heard it pronounced.
I was just thinking about how long this movie was. And how like I thought it ended around 2 hours, and then it kept on going lol
This movie is like watching All The President's Men and Halloween at the same time.
Hey JoBlo, I see a really good and clean copy of The Jim Dunbar Show that Zodiac called into. I've been looking for this forever and I can not find a good version like you have. Where did you get it? I would love to see the full interview, if you could please let me know where I would be forever grateful. Thanks
The case against ALA is getting closer. Check my site and Tom Voigt site. Seems ALAL was in San Fran 3/13/1971 got a ticket and that same day a Zodaic letter was sent from Pleasanton, first and last letter sent from there, 3/13/1971... Interesting, no?
This year 2020,the cipher was deciphered finally, and left no clues to whom the killer was/is
What did it say??
@@daveyleeriot it said that the guy calling into the tv station was a fake. It also said his victims would be his slaves in the next life.
There's 2 cyphers left to be decoded, but it's doubtful they will
The basement scene had my anxiety 📈📈
One of my top ten films.
Well now we know the call to the tv studio was a phony
Someone broke the last cypher, and he said that wasnt him.
You could say the Zodiac was trying to confuse people, but since it was in a cypher that took decades to solve i bet we can believe those are more likely to be the closest to the truth wed get from the madman
The writings was extremely disturbing
It's such a good film. Everytime it's on t.v., I stop and watch it.
just rewatched yesterday
Def one of my top 5 crime dramas!
Hartnell said that he was facing toward the lake and Cecilia was, in fact, laying on his chest , looking toward the trees.
"He could still be out there... somewhere... waiting" Well, have a good night, kids! :p
In a nursing home
Good thing my house isn't wheelchair accessible!
Actually he is more than likely dead as arthur lee allen is dead
@@masterofpuppets7295 Just because they thought it was him doesn't mean it definitely was, fingerprints & handwriting didn't match for example.
Great video, great movie
Great movie one my favorite so interesting rewatch it couple of times
All I want is a sequel to WORLD WAR Z directed by David Fincher
Would be cool
AND Zombie Survival Guide. Fight Club meets Zombieland.
Solid movie, master class in suspense.