Zodiac: They know who the killer is but they can't prove it (HD CLIP)
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- čas přidán 5. 10. 2021
- Zodiac: Can’t prove it
What’s happening in this Zodiac movie clip?
Robert Graysmith (Jake Gyllenhaal) meets with Inspector Dave Toschi (Mark Ruffalo) to talk to him about Arthur Leigh Allen, who he thinks is the Zodiac killer.
Rent or buy Zodiac here: amzn.to/3Ab1fSW
What’s the Zodiac movie about?
Based on the true story of the notorious serial killer and the intense manhunt he inspired, Zodiac is a superbly crafted thriller from top director David Fincher. Featuring an outstanding ensemble cast led by Jake Gyllenhaal, Robert Downey Jr., Mark Ruffalo and Chloë Sevigny, Zodiac is a searing and singularly haunting examination of twin obsessions: one man's desire to kill and another's quest for the truth. On July the 4th, 1969, the evening of the independence day, two young adults are killed by gun shots in the cities of Benicia and Vallejo in California. A man then calls local authorities and declares having done the crime. The presumed killer, nicknamed Zodiac, accompanies his claims with a riddle. Robert Graysmith (Gyllenhaal), a young newspaper cartoonist, sees his life change when he starts investing his time in decrypting the serial killer’s puzzle.
Credits: © 2007 Paramount Pictures. All rights reserved.
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#zodiackiller#serialkille #investigation #unsolvedmurders #suspect - Zábava
2:51 "I've walked it." In a movie about obsession, this is the signature line.
Ruffalo with one of the most iconic "jesus christ" moments lmao
Why Lmao? Is this a comedy?
@@drdavid1963Lmaoo
He's a homicide detective and even he's impressed with this cartoonist's investigative work
He’s more shocked by how obsessed he is and how he’s probs right....confusion, fear, worry all at once
Anyone else think this scene is chill af? Drinking coffee in the middle of the night at a 24/7 diner discussing business.
Yeah dude it’s so chill it’s what I imagine college like
@@Saucedo1828that definitely was college for me. We’d study and grab an energy drink and just chill in the library like that
@@jruth77 I miss being in the library, and going down to grab a rockstar (when they were the OG recipe, and still good) and just going back to it. Good times tbh
@@SteezySteez2011 oh yeah man, the late night monster run, throw some music on and get work done late at night… good times
Nerds
This is such a great scene. This entire movie can be re-watched over and over and you pick up on new subtle details that you didn't pick up on the previous time. You can peel multiple layers and never get to the truth, but there are always layers to peel.
Yes. I have to confess I've watched Zodiac more than any other movie - about 30 or 40 times (and this scene even more). It's one of the great scenes all right. When Graysmith says, 'This is a case that's covered both Northern and Southern California...' David Shire's music starts fading in for the big reveal and Toschi says 'Jesus Christ'. It's the tragedy of the unknowable remaining a tantalising mystery - but remember, 'just because you can't prove it doesn't mean it's not true'
Also you can watch this scene from Toschi's point of view when Graysmith is going through the evidence. Ruffalo has this brilliant half-smile on his face thinking 'who does this obsessive thinks he's kidding. He should leave it to the professionals. Us cops have been though this and we know we can't prove it.' Then, Graysmith presents the timelines of Arthur Lee Allen and the Zodiac and Graysmith says, 'we get our first new Zodiac letter in 4 years.' At this point, Ruffalo's expression changes to one of uncertainty as if thinking, 'maybe this guy's right. Or even if I know he is, how can he prove it?' which is when he asks him the final question.
The great thing, also, about the 'Jesus Christ' reaction of Toschi is that he almost admits to Graysmith that he agrees with him and you can tell that he does but, as he says, 'but I am a cop'
@@drdavid1963 That's so funny, because since I watched it back in 2021. I've watched the movie at least 6+ times... it's crazy because the movie isn't about the killer, as much as it is about the theme of obsession. Graysmith, the Zodiac, regular movie goers.
@@drdavid1963 funny side note that Dirty Harry Inspector Callahan was based on Detective Toschi and the Zodiac, so its a funny little Easter egg when he says "Easy Dirty Harry..."
@@HayastAnFedayi - Yeah. Dirty Harry took the law into his own hands. He might as well have said 'just because you can't prove it doesn't mean it's not true.'
I love how Ruffalo thanks him for the breakfast yet pays for it.
I saw that too XD I think its because now Ruffalo's character can finally rest knowing he solved the case but couldn't prove it in court. He had the right man, but the right man was smart and covered his tracks.
@@SpencerLSimmons I think the right man took advantage of all the jurisdictions not being on the same page.
@@dnllrnt Honestly yeah, the film highlights a lot of jurisdictions being unorganized and never having enough staff or even care to solve the murder. (later in the film)
I do believe that if they had their shit together, they could have solved it but it’ll remain an American serial killer mystery.
Wait, I thought he just left money for the tip lol.
@@ZMWise I thought so too at first, but now I believe the "Thank you for breakfast" is more a thank you for helping solve the case.
Look at 2:03. Pause it. Notice the dividing line between the two. And how Ruffalo just reaches across that dividing line. He doesn’t stay there, but he reaches into the opposite side.
That’s balance. That’s visual storytelling. That little moment looks like nothing. But it’s an effort to connect that he pulls back from.
And finally, at the end, the dividing line is not crossed at all. Ruffalo stays in his space and exits on the left, never crossing the line.
Allen is the main killer, but it’s most likely that he had an accomplice or two. And it’s possible that an opportunist used the Zodiac panic to get away with their own murder and blamed it on Zodiac,
Shut up you don’t know
This is exactly what I believe copy cat seriel killers who used the scare of zodiac
That's what I also think bro
@@ctabjjdanny6261 The first 2 murders are 100% zodiac, the 3rd one I'm not 100% sure on as it was broad daylight and he used a knife, the taxi driver murder had nothing to do with zodiac (the M.O is way too different and I think someone used the fear created to get away with it.
I think Arthur was ONE of the Zodiac Killers. I believe the Zodiac Killer comprised of at least 2 or more people. That would explain why Arthur's handwriting and DNA didn't match what was found in the envelope, despite all the overwhelming evidence the authorities found in his trailer home.
You really think he would be stupid enough to tell his friend, Don Chaney every single detail concerning his Zodiac identity, and how he would go about killing his victims? Maybe telling Don was part of the plan. He counted on Don Chaney to go to the Police, cause he knew regardless of what they found on him, the DNA and handwriting weren't gong to match anyway. It's a pretty clever way to throw the cops off his trail. Keep in mind all the letters the Zodiac sent consisted of details of the murders and humiliating the cops for not being able to catch him or in this case "them" It was all about having the power to evade the Police and always being one step ahead of them.
Now as far as who the other assailants were? I do not know. It could be Paul Doerr or another suspect that goes by the name of William McDuff Andrew? Both of them fit the Kodiac's description for sure. But who really knows? Your guess is as good as mine.
Be honest with me. What do you guys think of my multiple Zodiac Killer theory?
Dude! I just thought of this earlier today before I read your comment. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Arthur had and accomplice. It only makes sense tbh.
I love when Toschi says thank you then huge pause for breakfast because he knows he can’t discuss an open investigation w a civilian.
He's also acknowledging Robert's dedication. If you remember earlier the film, Toschi whisks food from his former partner in a nonchalantly selfish manner (asks for Animal Crackers like he's entitled to them) because he's too focused in his own mind.
ONE OF THE FINEST PIECES OF ACTING The past 20 years! Both are Brilliant! Film was Outstanding
“Easy Dirty Harry” I still use that one if someone tries to act tough.
I actually liked the fact that the movie took a very firm position on who the Zodiac was and I was almost sure ALA was the Zodiac but now I’m not so sure. If ALA did it then he almost certainly had an accomplice.
Loved who as the time goes by robert becomes a great detective but his mental health is falling apart.
He doesnt eat, take care of his sleeping, grew a small beard and doesnt spent too much time with his family.
Almost goes crazy as paul
This is what I believe. Arthur Leigh Allen is the main killer, but there was prolly 4-5 other killers who killed during his time and just blamed it on him making it harder to track him down. Remember the golden state bridge killer? Well his name was Joseph Angelo. He also did all the killings and raping around that time. But he got caught thru dna testing.
I read D'Angelo was also doing crimes for years up and down all over California. California had so many serials running around from the late 60s through the 90s,
so I think, good luck ever solving this case. Arthur Leigh Allen could have been the main one, but was he really that brilliant? I dunno. He kept getting arrested
and put in prison for stretches. How genius could he have been?
This scene gives me the goosebumps along with the interogation scene..
Such a great film; Fincher is a master; additionally, I really love how although the main plot is of course the mystery about the Zodiac identity, few films like this one really develop the life journey ark of the others characters:
Robert: low profile nerdy cartoonist single guy, to focused centered family man, to obsessed guy divorced guy
Paul Avery: prime sober old school journalist , sensationalist journalist, drunk hippiesh journalist in decadence
There is no indication that Robert was a focused centered family man, considering he was divorced before the film started. The implication is that he is prone to obsession and it's what drove off his first wife. Some people are doomed to repeat their mistakes.
Paul Avery was never sober.
The acting is brilliant
Mark ruffalo when he asks is that true ?
You can feel the pain
Magnificent movie
I was surprised to recently see on blogs, websites, etc., there's a good amount of people who still look into other people as possible Zodiac suspects. I think if you read Graysmith's book, and how he laid out Zodiac's timeline so well, but also acknowledging the possibility that Zodiac, in his letters, could have made claims to murders he didn't commit to throw investigators off his trail, or to break up his patterns, that it was still Allen. Arthur Leigh Allen was not too far away from being charged with murder, but he died of a heart attack before it could be formally arranged, and no one has ever heard from Zodiac since.
The only explanation is that Allen didn't write the letters. I'm pretty sure it was a 2 man job.
But he was ambi-dextrous
@@drdavid1963but didn't the handwriting expert say he never saw anyone this ambidextrous, someone who had to good hands
@@h.d.5194 Yes but thehandwriting expert was described as 'who drinks like Paul Avery now' So entirely convincing.
@@h.d.5194 (not) entirely convicing
@@drdavid1963 oh yeah forgot about that. So there is still credibility to the theory he acted alone.
Idc how many people tell me other wise the Zodiac was a 2 man job one for the killing the other for the hand writing
That's what i believe
@@tylerwedell3750 I've got no reason other than instinct for saying this, but I can't fathom how two different people could jointly do serial killings. To be a serial killer in the first place you need to be pretty unbalanced, and for one such type to find another kindred spirt, and for both of them to agree on the strategy and to both keep their mouths shut, seems pretty unlikely to me.
Always gives me chills
i don't like ruffalo but this is easily his best role and his best acting, very natural, pretty confident
He stinks in everything.
@@tafttheraft5314 i couldn't agree more, i just don't understand how he got so much hype from marvel movies, when even as hulk he sucked
@@NicolasSilvaVasaultyou watch your mouth about 13 going on 30!
@@NicolasSilvaVasault Dude be professional. If you don't like your co-worker that doesn't mean he's bad at his job. Watch his movies, even his Bruce Banner movies. He's pretty good.
@@catalinamelo9932 i'm literally telling you this is his best role, i love his acting on this movie, but everything else? meh
I LOVED that scene!!!❤ excellent movie even though a lot was left out.
I'm 95% sure Arthur Leigh Allen was The Zodiac Killer...
Except he wasn’t
agree
@@andrealagravinese6498 Thanks man... Most people don't really believe it...
@@swankybutters8371 Retired police handwriting expert Lloyd Cunningham, who worked on the Zodiac case for decades, stated, "They gave me banana boxes full of Allen's writing, and none of his writing even came close to the Zodiac. Nor did DNA extracted from the envelopes (on the Zodiac letters) come close to Arthur Leigh Allen."[4]
@@patrickbooth5091 Not really sure who Cunningham is... (Funny... I went to a school called Cunningham) anyway, I have little doubt he faked his handwriting. You can see it on many of the uploads about is writing. Also he said he couldn't write with his right hand and that was a lie as well. You can see he's messing with his hand writing, it's not hard to notice. Even Norman Boudreau said he could right with both hands... He was a good BS artist... DNA, I'm almost sure was not his, he would get other people to lick his stamps for him... He was good at playing the game...
Great points are made about Arthur being the Zodiac, but part of me will always also believe Zodiac was multiple, unaffiliated people.
That disbelief Ruffalo shows is fantastic acting
This is just pure class movie one of the best
Such a great movie, my favorite fincher movie
brilliant acting
One of the best films ever
Yes
Never noticed in this scene and lighting you can see Robert also payed his toll for taking all of that on himself. he looks tired and very weary.
"Thank you for breakfast"
*pays anyways*
can't afford animal crackers
day is ruined
The cop in this scene is right , if they don't have enough evidence that would hold up in court it would be pointless to try and arrest him for this .
This aged well then
Why?
@@sukhdevr3489 they found the zodiac they believe he’s been dead since 2018 though
@@justin-tu9fl Its not even confirmed, not enough proof. They always have a new suspect every year
@@justin-tu9fl yeah that's not true that hasn't been confirmed. Lol. They definitely didn't find the Zodiac. Pretty clear that Lee Allen was involved. The odds of that many coincidences like hitting the Powerball twice.
@@justin-tu9fl They solved nothing it's just a new suspect. There's new ones every year... its like when they 'solved' Jack the Ripper.
One of the best scenes in movie history
It's funny how Toschi tolerates Robert throughout the film...to a point to keep his family comfortable, but knowing the obsession, being a detective, he can't help but go through ALL the evidence he spent a good chunk of his career on with Robert at 5 am because it's in his blood to do so.
It started with his painting of the mallards 🦆 that wasn’t chosen for the .32 cent stamp to turn him into a cold blooded murderer
It really is less then 50 yards. I'm from the Bay Area....I live like 20 miles away from Vallejo. I'm really interested in true crime, especially this case. I went to those places and walked it myself. It's not a House of Pancakes anymore, but it is still a restaurant.
It was an IHOP for a long time. Used to go there in high school and even after. I graduated 20 years ago. There’s a second ihop on the other side of town, and at some point someone else bought the ihop on tenn st and turned it into a seafood place I think. It didn’t last long. It’s a Mexican joint now
One of my favorite movies it’s so good
This movie is just about perfect.
Don Chaney and Arthur Leigh Allen were the zodiac killers
It was Ted Cruz
*Rafael Cruz
Maybe Don Chaney is the guy and he is making it all look like Arthur Leigh Allen is the Zodiac Killer when he is.
Is it just me? Or does Jake Gyllenhaal have the most funny looking faces in every movie he is in?
Zodiac killer was Allen at 99%
The other 1% was the DNA that excluded him.
Nope
I'm with you Andrea, I'm just more in the 95% sure, for now but 99% is most likely correct as well. No one even comes close to ALA and honestly, I don't think he ever worked with anyone, that would have been a huge mistake... He was a soloist...
Toschi was too focused on the prints and handwriting. There's ways around that
It's not that Toschi was too focused on it. The problem was that nothing else would matter in court if the prints and handwriting didn't support the case. A judge would throw it out in two minutes. Toschi wasn't arguing in this scene that ALA wasn't the murderer, he was explaining why he wouldn't be able to prove it.
"I'm not asking you as a cop."
"But I *am* a cop."
I always loved in this movie how Dave is so dedicated to being a good cop, following due process, etc.
I remember seeing this movie with my cousin
amazing underrated movie
The first "thank you" wasn't for breakfast.
They never had a case against Allen, just like the cop says in this scene. Not a shred of evidence.
Except if U use a brain U don't need "evidence"
@@TorqC69I know, even if it's circumstancial it's all just too overwhelming. Just cause they don't have solid proof they give up on the person who is clearly the zodiac. I don't really get that and the movie shows Jake's character going into the shop at the end and basically showing Arthur Allen Leigh is the zodiac but the police don't take further action until years later and then he dies
Best Fincher
Ruffalo has one of those faces where he looks like 10 different people
This was a well-crafted movie in terms of the acting, the lighting, the editing etc, but it really should be seen as fiction. Graysmith had a book to sell and Fincher had a movie to promote, so both of them omitted or just invented things to make the case against ALA. Here's just a few examples:
1. the movie makes a big deal of zodiac speaking to the housekeeper on December 18 and saying "I have to kill today, it's my birthday". The FBI tell Graysmith that none of the suspects have a December 18 birthday. Graysmith then discovers that ALA's birthday was December 18 and runs to Toschi's house in the middle of the night having "solved" the case. In real life the Zodiac never called the lawyer's house at all, and ALA's birthday was openly recorded as December 18 in every file. There was just no significance to it.
2. The spotlight fell on ALA because of Cheney, who swore that ALA had told him of his plans in early January 1968, and that ALA was "raw" about having been fired from his job for molesting a student. In real life, this could not have been true because ALA was not fired until March 1968. When asked about this inconsistency sometime later, Cheney said "oh, the conversation must have been in 1969 then". Cheney's credibility was suspect in the eyes of the police from early on. He had reason to have a major grudge against ALA.
3. a major plotpoint in the movie is that someone made heavy breathing phone calls to Darlene's house and her parent's and in-law's houses that night, before the murders were known about. The movie shows Toschi and Graysmith realizing that this meant that the killer must have known Darlene, and since ALA lived "less than 50m away from her workplace", it had to be him. In real life, Darlene's brother eventually admitted to the police that he made the calls, because he'd asked Darlene to buy him some dope, and he was calling around hoping to find her. When she didn't answer, he didn't identify himself.
There's numerous places where the movie is misleading, but these are just a sample to show that it was not trying to give a fair picture, but was intended to convict ALA. The latter was a pedophile and had creepy ways about him, but once you separate the fact from the fiction, the arguments for him being the zodiac are very flimsy. In real life, there's no way the police were about to charge him when he died.
Number one here 💥💥💥🔥
Can't believe Smart Hulk couldn't figure this out
This movie is so damn good I'm surprised it's not considered a classic or something. Like film classes should be reviewing this movie, I really believe that.
It is considered a classic!
@SinisterMud you're right lol, it's an amazing film.
I came back out of nowhere to watch this scene in the middle of the night
Allen looked nothing like the Zodiac sketch, though.
Circumstantial evidence means crap in court, if that is only evidence you have. You need at least some apodictical evidence too.
"Easy dirty Harry" is a nod to the real life character that Ruffalo is playing. Dirty Harry was based loosely on Dave Toschi.
The zodiac killer was able to stay hidden from the Hulk, Mestrio and fuckin iron man
Can't wait to see a movie about the Golden State Killer!!!!
Me also
Super simple everyone. Arthur Leigh Allen was the Zodiac but he wasn't working alone.
My mom was the Zodiac killer she had knives and a deep voice.
*knives
Robert was an absolute greyhound….
Ruffalo should have turned into Hulk and scare the zodiac
In case you do not know, in the real world circumstantial evidence is used all the time to gain convictions.
Not like this, though.
That's why Arthur Leigh Allen was never charged.
Why didn’t anybody show Linda a picture of Arthur Leigh Allen?? If she and Mike identified him it would’ve nailed the coffin
I've thought about the line "I've walked it" so many times. Its my roman empire.
Fifty yards, door to door
The most unbelievable part of this scene? A cop who doesnt jump at the first coincidence and ruin someones life.
You are 95% wrong
arthur leigh allen could have committed some of the murders in vallejo and san francisco especially the murder of paul stines. but i think the handwriting was done by a accomplice. That's why the handwriting expert cummingham said even though the police sent banana boxes of arthur handwriting to the handwriting expert he said it didn't match because maybe it was written by somebody else I am not sure if had gone through a lie detector test but maybe he could have passed it maybe one or two of the murders were not done by him but somebody else. I also believe that the murder of cheri joe bates is linked to zodiac. and even if arthur leigh allen had one or two accomplice they are probably very old or dead by now these murders took place like fifty years ago. I think it is important to establish the dna found in the zodiac letters and identify the person and see if that person had a possible friendship with arthur leigh allen
Arthur Leigh Allen die without ever been charged of any crime he was your zodiac
mysterio versus the hulk
Don Chaney is the zodiac killer
Common mysterio , hulk , iron can't silve something
I am 1% sure Allen is the zodiac killer
I honestly don’t think they will never found who the zodiac killer is. He has outsmarted police and feds for decades. Who knows? Maybe I’m wrong
I honestly think Lee had a split personality. At night is when he killing side began ... no lie I think thst is a possibility
Accurate portrayal of how clueless cops are.
At least they're persistent. Imagine how easy it would be for a zodiac killer to get away with those killings in a third world country where cops aren't just clueless, but lack the technology to actually get a serial killer pinned down. Good luck trying to solve a 20-year-old crime where evidence has been manipulated to no end.
Hey wise guy, why don’t you try solving zodiac and get back to us. We’re waiting. Since the 60s
They had enough evidence to go to trial
But it don’t mean it will be enough to convict.. this leaves a lot of room for a not guilty verdict..
Some of these murders were really bad. I mean bad beyond what should be said. I'll leave it at that.
I think Arthur Lee Allen killed Darlene. But the real Zodiac did other crimes and also took credit for other murders to throw off the police
In that scenario, Arthur had to have also killed David and Betty Lou. Now if it’s someone else that killed the others, and he is the one that writes the letters, how does he know the details about Betty Lou? That means if it’s another person writing the letters, that they had to have known the person who killed Darlene, David, and Betty Lou. It’s either Arthur had an accomplice or the letters were written by law enforcement that had insider knowledge
@@Seashellsbytheseashore21 yea probably Law enforcement trying to bump overtime pay
All that to find out Gary Francis Poste was the Zodiac lol.
No he is not bro
OJ Simpson is the real Zodiac Killer actually.
I don’t understand how Arthur Leigh Allen cover his tracks? Is he going in circles going north and south in California??
Wow
Mysterio, Iron Man, and Hulk try to solve the case of the killing psychopath
they needed Professor Hulk.
Zodiac killer is unmasked officially!!!!
Not official yet.
Dd
It's not him. Calm down
@@MarvInn I’m pretty sure he is
Its not (:
I was disappointed to learn that the movie distorted a lot of the details (no matching bootprints, no Zodiac watch, etc.). I'm guessing that if there really was that much circumstantial evidence, it would have been an easy conviction.
Wait even the watch was made up???
@@anonymousgoblin792 no he wore a zodiac wrist watch bootprint one was made up
Tf are you talking about? This movie is pretty legit. They never could get ALA, it was all circumstantial
I really enjoyed this movie and will probably enjoy it again but let's just say it actually wasn't* Arthur and it somehow gets proved one day, I ask; does any money from this movie go to his family for slandering the name? I'm actually curious what would happen in that scenario*?
Leigh was a copy-cat.
John Lennon was the zodiac
My friend said I was the zodiac killer
I mentioned I was born in 1993
He said that was circumstantial……
I need better friends.
How does it explain people saying he’s 5’8” or 5’9” tho??
ALA was over 6’
There’s a task force that’s saying Gary Francis Powers is the guy
He walked kinda hunched over, didn’t he?
Eyewitness accounts can be off. Also could be 2 people were Z
🔥💞🇬🇭
The good thing about circumstantial evidence is that it never changes, whereas eyewitnesses can recant. Indirect vs direct evidence. If we still had a justice system, things would be much better, as they were pre 1 Samuel 8. God's ways under the Old Covenant has their merits.
But over time people forget. So their 'direct' evidence may not be so reliable
That's why there is a principle in law of evidence that states that men might lie but circumstances never lie. This is the basis for admissibility of circumstantial evidence in criminal trials.
Great killer 👍🏻
@@pitohui3527 🥰
sirs
Psychopath…
Easy Dirty Harry