US Government Scientists expose why solid-state batteries keep failing
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
- US Government Scientists expose why solid-state batteries keep failing
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#solid-statebatteries #battery #batteryproduction #toyota #catl #lgchem #panasonic
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I deem most articles about solid state batteries as click bait
And Fusion
@@GardeningZ
Depends.
With fusion at least there is usually some degree of interesting science embedded in the PR/journalistic fluff.
Somewhat less so with solid state battery articles which are almost exclusively corporate schlock at this point.
Alchemy research is also showing some promising results. They successfully made a gram of gold out of 0.0353 ounces of gold. Exciting times.
LOL I was going to say "fusion". I was supplying parts for the UK fusion project 40 years ago. Never going to happen.
There is so much money being spent on the holy grail of batteries. I'm sure they will get there because there is so much money to be made when they do. Hopefully it's sooner rather than later!
Dendrite formation has always been a problem with battery technologies -- this is nothing new. I predict that the most successful way to deal with this will be an extra phase in the battery charge/discharge cycle that has the sole purpose of removing the dendrites before recharging or after charging in complete. This may involve the use of an intermediate element or elements between the plates and electrolyte which has the sole purpose of destroying the dendrites.
When this happens I expect to get 5 percent of the gross from whoever patents it and claim this comment as proof of prior art 🙂
I'm sorry that won't work
@@doylewillis9587 explain.
Nickel Cadmium had this problem, and there were chargers that had optional conditioning to reduce the dendritic.
Basically, every rechargeable battery tech has some sort of problem like this.
Sounds like a good idea that being the precharge thing which I can't quite visualize how this would be done. I think dendrites form mostly when the batteries charge; I think of this as a metal plating operation. Btw, EOS Energy makes a zinc bromine battery mainly for utility power storage and has apparently solved this problem for their zinc based batteries with special additives to their electrolyte. Historically zinc air etc batteries were among the worst with dendrites. Eose has reduced the weight of their batteries by over 80% while increasing charge capacity. I believe they will someday be in cars. Eose has over $1/2B backlog in orders! I have accumulated a good amount of their stock.
@badbrain3185 Dendrites form in different ways for different battery technologies, and there are other capacity limitations.
For Nickel Cadmium, Dendrites form based on charge/discharge speed, voltage and temperature - fast charging/discharging at 10C (10 minute charge/6 minute discharge) is the worst, 1C avoids most issues, and temperature and voltage controlled chargers reduce formation to a minimum.
There is also a memory effect with Nickel Cadmium, where if a battery is repeatedly drained to the same charge level and recharged, it will refuse to discharge beyond that. This can often be fixed by a few cycles of forced discharging/charging (cycling) or avoided by an occasional full discharge, and some chargers support those.
The biggest advantages of Nickel Cadmium are high rate charge/discharge and overcharge tolerance and number of usable discharge cycles. The disadvantages are weight, high self discharge rate, and the fact that lifespan is depleted nearly equally regardless of when in the cycle recharging is done.
Lithium Ion is much better in terms of power density, self discharge rate, weight, and memory.
But Lithium Ion requires smart chargers, has risks of thermal runaway and/or swelling, and doesn't tolerate high rate charge/discharge well.
There are theoretical ways to prevent/reverse dendrite formation, and those are constantly being researched.
In some cases, there is a charge level or use case that preferentially uses Dendritic material, and that can shrink or eliminate Dendrites.
But once a Dendrite forms a short circuit, the battery is permanently compromised to that extent, barring some new development that could shrink the Dendritic connection.
For all technologies, there is a way to pretty much prevent the problems, but it often involves impractically slow charging.
We had the same problem in semiconductors 45 years ago: dendrites.
Dendrites are *not* the same thing as whiskers. It's a totally different process.
Fun fact: we added lead to solder long ago specifically to help prevent whiskers
@SuperFredAZ, @_droid
Adding lead to semiconductors or to solid-state batteries seems counterproductive. Do you know how the 1979 problem with semiconductors was solved?
Somebody added coffee grounds I think to deal with it in another report
@@crustyoldengineer the problem was caused by gold migration from the bond pads (I think), any we removed the gold from the process, solved the problem, it was called "purple plague" since it looked purple under the microscope
@@SuperFredAZ thats interesting, they are still a bit scatter gun with battery materials, entirely possible we finally land on the right mix of materials
Just like making a blue LED, this is difficult, and we need a lot of science research on this matter as well.
Veritasium did a great job on the story of the development of the Blue LED.
In a related story, nuclear fusion technology has hit a temporary snag..."
And later this year your first mass produced HYDROGEN car for sale will also be premiering................................................................ LOL
Seems like Fusion has the same snag it always had . I think a small company will achieve commercial Fusion before the
large ones will.
Where's my cold fusion?! Oh yeah. That only lasted about a week.
@@stuffdadmakes2954 They are still actually working on it. A number of studies in the last decade has confirmed that it does exist, and they have an idea now of under what circumstances. The problem is that the energy production is infinitesimal with what they can somewhat reliably duplicate today. I believe that they can only recreate the conditions it works under in about 1 out of 5 attempts to create a material with the required structure where it works (and those are relatively expensive attempts). Again, and then it's just an infinitesimal amount of energy at this stage.
No one is making any great claims about cold fusion or even can suggest a timeline. But, further research is getting funded because of the progress they have made.
I think the 1st key is being able to reliably develop a material with the right structure. Once they can do that - then power density can be addressed.
Someday cold fusion may actually become useful.
@@ctuna2011 A garage engineer with some kind of Tesla like understanding of gravity accidentally creates the practical wormhole generator or gravity reduction field. I would love to see the headline.
the real way to keep from being ten years behind china in tech like batteries, is to have the discipline to stop outsourcing tech and manufacturing to them. in fact, domestically, the US should probably start embracing more vertical integration within smaller companies, counter balanced with anti trust enforcement and more rapidly adaptable regulation capabilities, to foster domestic market driven technology advances. at the same time, sharing such advances globally only once they have been established locally from a manufacturing implementation standpoint. in other words the US needs to "tighten up" to become a leader again.
Nobody is 10 years behind China
under biden a bunch of battery manufaturing plants are being built. good union jobs.
"But, But, But. Muh Corporate profits!"😮
All jokes aside I agree. Corporations should stop hollowing out our industries just to increase profit margins.
True
Nobody is ten years behind China in anything.
Forget solid state batteries for cars. I want a solid state battery in my next smart phone and I'm willing to pay $100 extra for that
I like your library of background 'B Roll' tech video. It's a nice upgrade. I have grown to hate the generic 'people in lab coats pointing at things' stock clips.
Congrats on your growth and quality- and - thanks!
Life is a roller coaster. I'm glad your hanging in there. Best wishes, mate!
i actually disagree. if he is not going to go through the trouble of actually showing what he is talking about then don't show things that are similar enough to confuse people. Its just irritating. just show your face and be done with it. nothing wrong with someone just talking
@@ttrev007❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ i agree ….. no B roll
Lithium filaments are called "dendrites" in battery parlance.
It's actually a term describing crystalline formations which fractal like properties in this context.
Battery cells are probably just the only context that the average (non geologist or material science) person is ever going to learn about them.
Look it up on Wikipedia under "Dendrite (crystal)" - they can look almost like branching fronds on a fir tree.
The other popular type of dendrites being connecting branches from neurons in the biological context.
@@mnomadvfx That's a bold statement. I'm an average person, but these dendrites sound a lot like the 'tin whiskers' that were killing satellites in the 60's, 70's before they figured out that the dendrite growth was acellerated in the vacuum conditions of space.
Maybe not lithium then...
For decades we've known about the phenomenon of "tin whiskers" forming from lead-tin solder joints that cause short circuits between terminal pins on ICs, but to my knowledge they still haven't figured out exactly what causes them. This only got worse when lead based solder was banned. The whiskers can even burrow through protective plastic coatings applied to PC boards. It sounds like we've got a similar problem inside of solid-state batteries and scientists are just as baffled as to why they form and how to prevent them.
i suggest reading Elementary lectures on electric discharges, waves and impulses, and other transients by charles protues steinmetz. basiclly over time knowledge has been lost, steinmetz was the one who made electrical engineering possible. their are no particles only fields, electrons are nothing more than the terminal end of dieletric line of tension. electricity is not generated but manifested into our cartesean space and wants to return back to non cartesean space this is what causes the tin whiskers.
Yes, these dendrite/whiskers have been known since the 1970s or earlier. There are still no known solution as no one truly understood what causes their growth over time.
These same "whiskers" were forming on satellites. It's gravity/electromagnetic related. The dendrites are forming along lines of flux.
@@Diversifried you will never understand. go back to worshipping einstein. fool.
@@Diversifried what part of the, dieletric field wants to return back to non cartesean space, do you not understand? even my 10 year old neice understands pressure.
good episode. asking great questions
Interesting! There are similar problems with lead-free solders long mandated for use in consumer products like cell phones to prevent lead from ending up in landfills which may over time leach lead into the environment - lead is a well-known toxic heavy metal. Lead-free solder alloys have a tendency for the high tin content to grow "tin whiskers" which can eventually create short circuits between conductors on circuit boards, with obvious bad consequences. Various mitigation strategies are offered, but the underlying cause of tin whiskering is still somewhat mysterious. Two steps forward, one step back...
Yep, thought of exactly this solder. Besides the poisoning of society aspect, lead is a wonderful substance. Lead paint lasted forever; lead in gasoline stopped knocking.
I listened to the head of Toy-motor, saying lying is part of business. I am not believing any announcements from them. Not buying any of their cars.
Quantumscape has been working on the problem of dendrite formation for years. They have developed a special ceramic separator that prevents this. Testing of a prototype has shown that the battery exceeded durability (recharge cycles) expectations and that it could likely last longer than the car itself, providing hundreds of km of range even after 8 years of typical driving.
Just don't buy their stock
But why this solid state design every yr with announcements saying breakthroughs but then nothing in production. Going on like this for 10 yrs. Please can update on your thoughts? Maybe is design for solid state but just can’t mass produce?
@@michael-qp9xd It takes years to figure out what the product should be. And then it takes years to figure out how to make it in a large scale, reliably. This is the stage QS is presently in. They are spending over $350 million a year just trying to get the production process up and running. Meanwhile others are making incremental progress improving existing battery technology, and coming to the market earlier, which is hammering QS stock price.
@@michael-qp9xdI am sure the sodium battery will take over the world. And the silicone anode. And the dry coating process. An the graphene powered cathodes. And the new formation process. And the semi solid state cell. And the solid state battery. And the blade battery. And the 4680 battery.
Do you recognize what i am saying here?
I don't believe it until there is verified independent testing from multiple sources.
Any stress locked into certain metals from bending or compression etc. will spawn the growth of metal whiskers until the stress in the metal has been relieved by the migration. Holes from tiny flaws in insulator plates, like those in ceramic capacitors combine with electric potential will lead to the growth of dendrites that cause shorts. Any experienced engineer building and testing prototype solid state batteries already know all of this. Those new to the field have no idea yet. Managers with aggressive schedules and large retirement size bonuses on the line have likely put a month or two in the schedule for magic to happen that will solve these problems that they have been avoiding reporting on to upper management and investors for years. Add in the wide temperature range, pressure fluctuations, vibration and accelerations that an automobile battery must endure and a lot of this stuff doesn't show up until you've tested thousands of parts for many years. By the time a reliable solid state battery is on the market, I'll be to old to drive a car. Of course by then the cars will not need me to drive them. Ha.
Remember that we don't need perfect solutions; we need better and we need soon. Besides energy density I hope we can make some forays in cheaper, more reliable batteries for simple power stations (so we can store energy from wind and solar and use it when it's needed). And I wish we could make overhead electric rails for cargo trucks. But hey.
I’ve been making homemade chemical batteries for years. Experimenting with different Metals and Electrolytes. Depending on how many cells run both in Series and in Parallel to Boost Amps. It’s a Fun Hobby.
Cool hobby never heard before. Wish you a surprise discovery that saves the planet and fills your shed with cash.
Are they viable for solar applications?
you should made the video and post it on youtube. at least some one can made a home made battery for their own home. especially battery cost is so expensive for solar panel.
Dirt, dirt & dirtier dirt self charging solid state batteries. Modeling clay, quarts sand & powdered, activated charcoal. The clay squishes down on the sand exhibiting the piezoelectric effect. The charcoal carrying the released-ion. After mixing, adding distilled & electrolytes wrap a precisely measured blob around the solder & work into a cylinder shape evenly wrapped around the solder. Leaving enough solder to get on with an alligator clip. Wrap in aluminum foil, avoiding contact between foil & solder. I found simple drying created electricity. I baked some in an oven & think it made more electricity. I made up a bunch of different common water soluble, household products in labeled jam jars. It only took a few drops of any solution to get the clay, sand& charcoal to work. The sand & charcoal dry the clay out. Borax, sugar, sulphur, stump remover, Himalayan salt to name a few electrolytes I experimented with. I worried the aluminum foil is decomposing creating the galvanic effect. Not my desired intent. I'm thinking an extremely fine carbon black, activated charcoal mixed into a nail polish..varnish..
@@neiliewheeliebin YES
Sounds like the same issue with Dendrites on conventional Li-Ion shorting the anode to cathode.
I built a prototype of my iguana Tracked Vehicle used three 12 volt gel cells. Five years later the batterie's were worthless. We bought an electric go cart for the grand kid when he was too small to enjoy it and 3 year later the batteries were worthless. I remember back when, you bought a battery and then you had to add the electorate. Clearly, batteries have a shelf life which we are not made aware of. I have a dozen battery powered tools in my shop that I use often. Some are 15 years old and they still work fine. ??
Iguana
Toyota CEO's should be sued for lying
Yup dendritic micro short circuits through the incredibly thin electrolyte/separation layer. The issue is the lithium migrates and grows into the cathode side, converting some of the materials to a semicondutive substance of mixed metals and oxide
It does not matter if the US government discovers a new, better battery technology. Scientific development knows no national boundaries. In the end industrial landscape will define who produces and mostly profit from the new technology.
Wrong, in the end industrial espionage will define who will benefit the most from new technologies. Ask the Chinese.
Thanks
I appreciate the Lorax talking about cars, I knew they'll leave the trees at some point.
Big Mistake!
There's solving these technical problems.... and then there's actually scaling up that tech to be commercially viable & patentable for corporate profitability. It's this last stage which confounds most tech break throughs, as the technology that fixes a problem at low scale doesn't usually work at high scale when needing to optimize materials and methods to be economical and efficient.
This is why competition is good, in the end we all win.
But these Lithium batteries suck. Either they catch fire, can't handle extreme heat or cold. charging stations aren't as reliable as they need to be.
@Oneness100: Don't make the imperfect the enemy of the good.
Tesla caarging stations are VERY good which is why they're winning much of the charging market. LFP (batteries are a BIG improvement (re both safety and stability), and many other improved combo chemistries are being worked on. Also sulpher, silicone, etc. vs. lithium.
BEV's are already MUCH MUCH better than they were just a handful of years ago, and clearly they'll keep on improving.
In the mean time, customers can choose HEV ad PHEV cars if they prefer, while green energy and batteries improve.
ICE's have been improving marketly for 120ish years. BEV's can continue improving a LOT for decades, based on the pace of discoveries, now that the effort is being made (far more profit incentive).
@@Oneness100 Lithium Ion battery cars catch fire 10x less than ICE cars. LFP battery cars catch fire about 100x less. Every EV car is already much safer than any ICE car re: catching fire.
excuse me competition kept failing to find the reason they are useless ...took a gvt agencie to find the reason
@@tysonn4736 Yeah, but the batteries in an EV are right underneath you. When an ICE vehicle catches fire, it's usually contained to the engine compartment, not right under the floor board.
Any news about CATL's Condensed batteries?
They need to develop a reliable fast charging battery and make range a secondary priority. Once ubiquitous fast charging arrives, range will in fact become a secondary factor.
StoreDot are doing that.
You think?
100% agree
Interesting idea. Never heard it expressed quite this way.
No one solution will fit everything.
Same kind of issue exists with gold-plated PCBs and fine pitch features... The gold forms "whiskers" that eventually short with other nearby contacts...
We have seen those up and down going batteries in that production line a million times.
This sounds a bit like the tin dendrites that they started finding when there was the push to low lead or lead free solder. They started finding shorts on circuit boards caused by the tin in the new "safe" solder starting to grow long crystals that bridged across circuits and caused the electronics to fail
Na (solid state) batteries and Hybrid versions will be made by various Companies in CN ,USA and EU. As there is a large Stationary "green energy" storage market apart from the vehicle market, the latter being of a "who is first gets market share" situation. ?
Great video - I’ve always wondered why it wasn’t here.
Toyota lines backing unicorns like and hydrogen
Once you've identified the problem, you've solved half the puzzle.
In the lab perhaps but finding the viable, stable and scalable solution and deploying it to actually make these at scale will years. Once they are in production it will not be in cheap EVs, it will be in planes, drones and supercars. It takes time for a commodity like a higher performance battery to hit scale for the average consumer.
I’ve identified the problem: the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
I’m now halfway to a perpetual motion machine!
I have identified a problem: It is not greenhouse gases causing warming temperatures; It is the building materials man uses. Proof 1(Experience) On a sunny day and your barefoot, what you walk on outside, from coolest to hottest, is grass, dirt, sand or cement sidewalks, black asphalt roads, and metal plates. This is why there is the phenomenon called Urban Heat Island effect. Proof 2(basic physics): The greenhouse gases worried about by climate change scientist are all invisible gases, and solids, especially black solids like tar, will always absorb more photons. Proof 3( the data): The heat in urban settings doesn't shift with the gases. This means the attack on greenhouse gases is wrong, and the focus should be on heat generators, heat batteries, and heat engines in urban settings so as to produce green energy and lower the heat. (If you need a visual, think campfire or space heater.)
Never say never! I'm surprised he would say that! They said the same thing about the transistor! Just sayin'
We had this happen forever in the IT hardware world they been able to produce it in a lab but when trying to produce things at scale is hard to do the process is slow; expensive and took a decade to find a solution to the issue then the technology becomes mainstream.
It sound like the lithitium crystal punchering the nano manbrane sepertating the anode and catode is the exact culprint of LG chem battery fire.
Obviously.
They built crappy batteries.
the main problem would be loss of profits, even if theyd pay less somewhere in the tax code for being greener, or because theyre not using palladium hydride(havent done a deep study, but it should be a really good alternative in most cases)
The problem is battery design. Stuck on a one way manufacturing with too many small cells. It's time to think outside the cell.
There was article that said pressurized non conductive materials could be conductive though, so what about pressurized semi conductive materials for solid state
Great job to research all this
Hp batteries ( high oerformance batteries ) of germany i thought already got a working solid state batteries.now tested up to 9000 cycles with no degradation.
There's a lot of other parameters to consider, starting with cost.
the other thing that slows or stops adoption on new technology is the desire to ensure legacy ROI, i.e. we've sunk xMillion dollars into lithium ion, we need to get our money back so we're not making or promoting anything else until we get a decent return.
You could keep reading what i write but you can never figure me out. Fake outs, truths, lies, you can never tell.
Time will tell. Car companies require batteries that have reduced fire severity after an accident (for litigation and insurance reasons), have increased driving range and have decreased recharging time.
I've always said that "solid state" and "battery" are mutually exclusive terms. Any way you cut this, a chemical reaction has to happen.
A kevlar nanofiber separator would probably help mitigate the filament growth
What about John Goodenough’s / IEEE Spectrum glass solid state battery ?
Solid State Tech is advancing. There are other issues like the cost which is 5x higher. A manufacturer to keep an eye on is Prologium from Taiwan. Prologium claims to made some big breakthroughs and are building a commercial level factory in Taiwan and a massive factory in the U.S.
What the general public will never understand is that there will always be battery degradation. All batteries are chemical reactions that can be somewhat reversed by forcing electricity back through them... but like everything in nature the process is not 100% efficient, in fact its only at maximum 90% under ideal conditions. its impossible to be 100% so due to the laws of thermodynamics.
Government scientists. Now that’s something I would not trust
if they care about the climates as they say, it should be an international endeavor to solve the battery issue
We all know it is all about the money and how much they can capitalize and maximize market share, patents and profits.
The soft shorts are the result of a overall parallel resonance. To minimize, we need to insulate all circuit pathways better. Imagine the way an inductor works. Individual paths have a magnetic field around and when you loop them all together it "combines" and flips the field 90 degrees. These high-density battery circuits momentarily are getting this same action where everything resonates and flips field 90 degrees. I propose these moments being witnessed are the soft shorts.
Thats actually good for SS. Knowing the problem is main factor to solve it.
Dendrite growth has been a headache in some types of componentry for years and it is interesting that it is once again rearing its ugly head in another type of component.
Forget batteries. How are they going to make enough electricity?
There is no money in a cure for anything
The more I hear about battery cars, the better I feel about my Mercedes S430.
With all the nuclear waste we have...
How long has Voyager been in space?
Somehow we cant put it in a car.
Back around 2018 I think I kept hearing about Solid State Batteries. They were going to first be put in Cellphones and Laptops to build experience. The claim was you would only have to charge your phone once a month. Never happened. As mentioned the date came and went. Its beginning to sound like Fusion power plants. Since the 1970s it will be just another 10 to 15 years before we have Fusion Power plants providing cheap energy completely eliminating fossil fuels. Still waiting. I think the media over hypes far beyond reality what can happen with Solid State batteries. In 2027 I believe we will see another extension to 2030 for production roll out.
It doesn't matter which country can produce a better battery.
Work together to safe the future of our Planet for a cleaner air environments.
As long as all these battery companies can produce a longe lasting range battery for an affordable Electric Vehicles, and many struggling people are able to witch to drive an AFFORDABLE ELECTRIC VEHICLES and cleaner air for our planet .
People need to work together for a better tomorrow !
😃💖⚡️🔋🌞🌏✌️
Yes gel batteries have a lot of advantages, except of course they can not be quick charged, it's estimated it would take a week to charge an EV gel battery at 50% power to 100%. Further the gel is highly flammable and highly toxic.
Being able to minimize or eradicate soft-shorts means lower battery temperatures, longer battery life, and longer charges being held. If the research ports over to non-solid state batteries, then that's great ad well. The solution seems to be in manufacturing and materials with not much engineering.
Being a non engineer type I wonder why the action of growing dendrites when discharging is not reversed when charging.
I've been working with cordless drills for 25 years. Those batteries don't last long either.
25 years ago we had NiMH and NiCAD. 100 years ago we had iron batteries in EVs. Times have changed, and times will change some more.
@jamesvandamme7786 We had lipo back in the 60's butit wasn't commercially available till the early 2000's when they became cheap enough to come into use in cellphone batteries. Even if we can solve the issues it will take another 40-50 years for them to be affordable.
Batteries use a reversible chemical change to charge or discharge. When chemical compounds change, the density and volume changes. This makes solid state impossible.
Dendrites: it grows to short the battery.
What some don't understand is the fact that if you create something that lasts too long is a bad investment. Look into the 1950's light bulb agreement by the 3 major sharks.
I haven’t replaced a washer, dryer, vacuum cleaner or refrigerator in over thirty years.
@@mnhsty I got a fan I bought at walmart in 2001. Stanley. Its still running, right now, keeping my 3090 cool. It probably has 10 years of "run time" on it. lol. Through all the use its had.
I meant bad investment for the manufacturers. 😂
If I were a company (Apple?) and could create a product that is maintenance free and will not obsolete (OTA updates) I'd sell the product at top dollar (Apple & Tesla) and not worry about replacing or maintaining the product (a pain) I'd make them and sell them at top dollar. Never mind the cheap imitations. That's how you build moats in big companies. Quit selling crap!
There is some truth that companies find the balance of quality and lasting but also needing customers coming back for a new model. The reason Toyota is the world's largest automaker is that they make the longest lasting cars. But if they lasted forever (impossible anyway), then they'd hurt future sales.
Solid state batteries have existed for years and have closely held government applications, especially at the DOD. That is why you don't have them, and probably never will.
4:42 to get to the point
It's too bad that capacitors have a limit on how small and dense they can be, because they do not rely on chemical reactions but literally just story the electrons themselves until they are ready to be released. Currently you could make an EV that uses super capacitors but the range of the vehicle would likely be quite small (probably well under 100 miles) but the benefits would be great, including super fast charging and discharging. Recharging would probably take a minute or two at most.
Anyone that uses cell phones or battery tools should know about batteries degrading. Lets not be surprised cars have exact same problem.
I think some of that is planned obsolescence.
It wasn't a surprise.
I am pretty sure the private companies have done a lot of research already but they just aren’t publishing all their findings. So the latest findings from these national labs may not be anything new.
I am pretty sure private companies would not like timeless batteries and would keep em hidden at all costs, like they did with light bulbs 100 years ago. It would break the market permanently.
Nothing exists that someone can't create a conspiracy theory for.
Sounds like a form of dendrites which has been a problem for almost every battery technology in their progress. All of these problems were solved for other battery technologies so I am sure the same problem will be solved again.
Solid state batts are the ultimate battery tech as no liquid electrolyte battery can match the performance and energy density of solid state, it’s just getting it right, that is the hard part but, they’ll get it.
Wishful thinking. 😂
@@wolfgangpreier9160 Breakthroughs are hard to predict.
@@jamesvandamme7786 Not hard, impossible. Just keep your beliefs. Does not make them reality, but who knows? Hope dies last.
They will always have inherent problems, namely power density or recharge time. Ions move very slow thru solid state vs liquid. On the order of 10-100 times slower than liquid
Most solid state battery articles are just clickbait, just like fusion
Do they know what ultrasonic cleansing is?
By the way - has nothing to do with this topic: check out:
"It used to offer a rich treasure trove of zinc and copper, but the Pyhäsalmi mine has since been shut down. Now the 1,444-metre-deep mine is to be given a second life as a gravity battery."
Does any EV sold in North America get the new CATL LFP battery?
There is more money in selling batteries with advanced tech than selling the cars that use them. I would expect CATL to sell them where ever they can as often as they can.
No
@@simply9990 that’s what I remembered. US not allowing Chinese made batteries to enter the market.
@@gregp.7148Would you want a bunch of sub standard batteries which either don't have the power density they claim or likely going to go into thermal runaway because it's such piss poor quality?
Soooo dendrites?
I feel that when us gov makes more head way and shares this info with usa based companies we might find out a bunch where cyber hacked.. 😢
Finding a critical military use for the solid state battery (and this may already be the case) will result in government funding the research and development in solid state batteries at a lever never before achieved. The claim that China is a decade ahead is likely an exaggeration, however it is a fact that the US is a decade ahead of any other country in stealth aircraft technology and soon to be released jet engine technology.
I’m pretty sure Doctor Who already defeated the Dendrites.
haha the classic us government scientists just wait till they get into the private sector and the issues " magically " solve themselves while pattenting the solution for billions and claiming no federal money was used to find it.
It will end up in china ahead of any US company. China seeded US universities with bright people and they are now working in our national labs etc This includes the universities themselves.
Can’t let folks know that there’s been absolutely no major tech breakthroughs that weren’t funded by governments in the last 70 or so years.
Also, gotta keep up the pretense that money comes from tax payers rather than from our currency issuing government and banks when they issue loans.
@@danharold3087
Too bad that Americans have been brainwashed into thinking money comes from tax payers.
So we absolutely forbid our currency issuing federal government from paying for our education when it issues our currency.
At least China understands that the Chinese government issues its own national currency. So it’s dumped a huge amount of money in education.
We, on the other hand, are dismantling our education system in favor of religious dogma instead of science, civics, history, philosophy, etc.
All the things that made the Western embrace of Enlightenment Values what it was
Musk’s old Twitter now X is part of this all out assault on our basic understanding of how our world works.
Including his constant lie that money comes from tax payers & it’s theft when our government taxes away some of his government issued dollars
You? Man, you gotta take out a bank loan if you have a heart attack or your kids need to go to college
@@danharold3087Nah they get people working in some level of the company and they do their best to steal the designs but because they lack the material sciences behind any of it they make sub par knock offs as always that don't work properly or use half assed work arounds.
Didn't a super computer say mixing sodium with lithium would result in a better battery? Take that and make a solid state solution could be key?
It's probably not going to be a competition with an end. We all are going to benefit more quickly from this competition. The US is behind. But for how long?
There are many story's and the Battery Gold rush in on. Who will get there design to the commercial stage is the question.
@@ctuna2011 As reported here, the first big step is the 50% price cut for more LFP density from CATL later this year. That seems commercial.
Who's winning the Hypersonic Solid State Quantum AGI race?
my bet is on Lyten reaching mass production first
Suit the TOYOTA for the hybrid definition. The submarine with diesel engine generate electrical power to drive the electrical motor connected with propeller, no one call this type of the submarine is Hybrid power submarine. Only the plug battery combination with combustion engine can be call the hybrid power.
Production cost is all I can think of
Fascinating video. Thanks. On your last question, I think that the Americans are out to lunch. The Chinese will find these same things (if they have not already) and develop their own techniques. That's good for all of us who want good, solid-state batteries.
It is highly likely that due to open science views our national labs have Chinese doing research if not in charge of actual projects.
The real question being is why US companies couldn't discover this on their own and not require the US government to do the job for them. I thought US companies were supposedly the best of the best. I wouldn't be surprised if Chinese companies are already aware of this problem with batteries anyway. The real issue is always the mass production of a solution.
Toyota is a head in this tech.
Production at scale, cost reduction and energy density improvements of existing lithium ion batteries are threats to the adoption of solid state batteries. It's not to say that won't applications for solid state batteries, it's just becoming much for difficult for this technology to replace current lithium ion batteries.
If solid state batteries are so close, why don't we see them in high end consumer electronics? Only a small relative quantity is needed for these devices and the profit margins are much bigger. One car's worth of battery production could power hundreds maybe thousands of small devices.
coming up with a new battery technology is way harder than most people realise, most fail once they meet the real world... Dendrites have been a problem with batteries for ever.... material always tends to migrate from one electrode to the other.
That's to bad. Looks like ev are definitely on their way out. They still have a use case in places like NYC, Tokyo, london. Thats about it though.
Identifying the problem is 90% of the solution.
Garnet based LLZO SSB will be in cars by 2030.
Judging by the number of battery failures that are causing fires in electric vehicles in China, I would venture to say that the Chinese battery companies are either aware of the filament growth issue and are producing and selling batteries knowing that there is going to be a fair number of failures or they are not aware of the issue. I don't believe that they do not know as this issue is not confined to just lithium based batteries, it is a common issue with almost any battery, rechargeable or not. It has been known about fot years, decades even. It is a matter of coming up with a material combination where it takes a very long time (number of charge/discharge cycles) before the issue is the reason why the battery fails. In early rechargeable batteries, the product would die or severely degrade after only 100 cycles. Technology (material combinations) improved and the cycle count improved to well over 1000 and so on till today where the cycle count of a well designed and manufactured battery is over 10,000 to 100,00 cycles and the energy density has increased dramatically. Look at Toyota, they have been selling hybrid electric vehicles for decades and how many battery fires have they had? I believe it comes down to shoddy manufacturing techniques and a don't care attitude of the manufacturer. As long as they make lots of money, why spend time and profits to fix it. When the Americans or Europeans come up with a better solution, they will just copy it.
These "ghost" filaments may well disappear because as soon as the filament bridges the dielectric as it creates a short circuit that is instantly vaporised by the high current that tries to pass through it. If, as he says, these shorts are happening so often, then if you connect an oscilloscope across the battery, you would probably see these shorts occur as "noise" on the voltage waveform.
The problem will be solved, but until then, be prepared to see large numbers of fires continue.
Where do German car companies get their EV batteries from?
There have been so many empty promises, but if you want to get a sense of what's coming in the near future, don't look at EVs, look at phones, computers, power tools etc. Successful designs will show up in these areas years before they are ready for vehicles.
If it's not happening there, don't hold your breath.
Please review Hyper 100% solid state