What is "The West"
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2017
- We hear about “Western Involvement”, “Western Values”, and “Western Interests” in the media. People say that the West is the best, or that the West is in decline. Some country is either Westernising or hates the West's way of life.
The West is the countries with democracies and free markets right? Or countries that are part of Western Civilisation? Then what about Latin America, are they Western? What does “The West” even mean and what exactly is Western Civilisation. Let’s find out
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The Decline of Rome and the Rise of Mediaeval Europe (Development of Western Civilization Series) (amzn.to/2j3q7su)
The Passion of the Western Mind: Understanding the Ideas that Have Shaped Our World View (amzn.to/2gKKOZL)
Orientalism (amzn.to/2w6uMLM)
What is the West (amzn.to/2x9J8Qk)
A Brief History of the Western World (amzn.to/2eJYeEy)
The Evolution of Civilizations (amzn.to/2gK4Xz8)
Other Sources
What Is the West? ( www.jstor.org/stable/24562884)
What Is Western Civilization? (www.jstor.org/stable/494353)
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"No one in the West is sacrificing goats to the gods . . ."
Speak for yourself, city boy.
The west now. 2020 hope you still stand by that statment Countryboy
@@Wolf-gt3kd sure do
@@bradchambers5886 well i hope "staying in your coutry" is included this mindset... otherwise you'll be sacrificed like a "goat"...
Yeah, sure you sacrifice the people in your colonies.
Sure, you sacrifice the money from your once prosperous colonies.
and also man ! The west is great ,any philosopher (especially Greek) being burnt for saying something insane....
Colonising the world and now becoming wealthy....Great!!! Great "WEST"
@@theunmatched1737 Salty that your country was dominated by one social class while our countries was in a constant social class battle Royale?
Why is Australia upside down at 4:08? o_O
Let's be honest. If you could flip Australia upside down, wouldn't you do it?
Exactly. It makes me feel powerful.
I was rather triggered by upside down Australia. You're mean! Plus that would put me WAY too close to the equator. I like Victoria's cold climate. Too warm any further north. The concept of The West is strange to us Austrailans too, because the Far East is west of us, and the middle east is further west, and the west coast of the US is east of us. USA is opposite land.
I think most Australians generally recognise themselves as being from a Western nation, geography isn't really relevant in contemporary usage of the term. We're a liberal democracy, highly developed, we're descendants of the UK, English is our majority language and Christianity is our major religion.. Not to mention that we're extremely Americanised and also closely allied with every other Western nation in the world. We're basically as Western as a country can get!
Because you can and everyone still knows it's Australia :)
And while Australians might be amused or bemused, they won't riot because their offended!
Talk to the middle class of Mexico City, Buenos Aires, Bogotá, São Paulo, Santiago, etc. You’ll quickly realize that they’re not wildly different from the middle class of Madrid, Lisbon or Rome.
who cares
That's because they are western people, also poor people in those countries are western people. THATS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE WEST. The European influence is what marked all of the American/Americas continent/continents. I can't find a reason for these people to be left out of the culture movement they follow bruh.
@@La_Horca exactly 💎 Also, Amerindians had advanced civilizations in the Americas way before the European invaded in 1512
If they're criollos or at least castizos, yes.
@@danesovic7585 No, Western means fully European without mixing
It really pisses me off when americans speak of "Western civilization" and "Latin American Civilization" as two things apart, as two completely different things
I mean, latin american civilization? Really?
Leonardo Saffier we have too much melanin to join the club.
@@juliocbp9389 I think so, either this or since our economies have always been terrible, we don't get to join the club
I was listening to Julián Marías "The Two Americas" (Las dos Americas) speech and he seems to clearly put Hispano-América within the Western band wagon.
@@juliocbp9389 wrong. There are many white people in cuba, Mexico, colombia, venezueala, Argentina, brazil, chile the list goes on. Plus not all white countries are western. Half of europe is under orthodox culture. Russia, Ukraine, Bulgaria, etc. Quit making race about everything.
I don't think americans are the only ones who do this, I'm pretty sure it's most people in Europe too
I mean, I'm Brazilian, and I feel Western. My whole family is catholic. We speak a romance language. We celebrate christmas, we have elections, we are free and all those things. (and just in case someone asks, we're also white. Mother's blonde and blue eyes in fact).
Yeah I've been to Brasil. It obviously has it's own culture and is very unique but I hardly felt like I was in a entirely different civilisation. Drop a Brasilian in Europe or a European in Brasil and they won't have too hard a time figuring out how everything works. Race doesn't matter anyway when it comes to culture or civilisation anyway. Thanks for your comment :D
Yeah man same... I'm from São Paulo, My family is entirely Catholic. Race doesn't matter though!
- Cogito - What about the black Brazilians and Brazil's African population?
I'm from Mexico, and I think everyone in Latin America feel the same, or at least in Mexico, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Colombia, etc.
Reyhan Ziad
the US, Britain, France etc have black populations, and their undisputably western, so whats the problem?
It makes me so confused when Americans and Brits call Poland, Czechia or Hungary "the East" "Eastern Europe". 50 years under Soviet occupation doesnt make them "eastern cultures".
Poland is a pretty Central European country too. Whenever someone uses "Eastern European" in a sentence I always assume they mean "I actually don't know where this country is, but I'm pretty sure it's not next to France". I heard a person call Malta eastern European :D
I've always considered "Eastern Europe" to be more of a geographic term, since it's basically everything east of Germany and Austria, south of Finland, and north of Greece. The Balts, Albanians and Hungarians make it a bit difficult to use 'Eastern European' as an ethnic or cultural term. As for Estonia and Czechia... go figure where they fit.
apparently, russia is a part of the west too, they are european too isnt it. and you go down to east asia... there is the eastern asia japan, and the western asia communist china, but japan is a western country meanwhile communist china is the opposite
@marios gianopoulos I think it's the Protestant/Catholic & orthodox divide
marios gianopoulos We usually just call Finland and the other nordic nations ”northern Europe” though
I love how you snuck "Friends" and "Grown Ups" in there :)
Both prime examples of Western Civilisation :D
i believe most people use the term "western" as a synonym for "white" and usually christian
Only after the cold war.
During it the soviet block which were for the most part white were not at all considered western.
Even today calling the Russian block of Europe western is a huge stretch.
thebaws Russia is Western until you go over the Urals. After that you're in Asia
True. Actually as a Mexican I use to fight people because they think that Mexico is "not white enought" for being western.
I mean, I only Speak European languages, in my family, people folow European Religions, we have also have goverment based on American-French Values. and these stuff.
We are just not a "white" nation.
PD: We are more related to Rome that the Anglo nations.
@@Yha1000itz wrong again. Mexico is very white
There are an estimated 15-19 million white people in Mexico. Cuba is majority white and they are also not apart of the west? Why? Because in Latin America the culture has been more influenced by indegenous peoples. Plus half of (white) europe is not considered western
Yet keep making race about everything.
Stay "woke" I geuss
Westerners can be Black
4:01 What happened to Australia?? And no-one can hate Liechtenstein.
What happened to the rest of the world mate?
I am Russian, and I feel northern
@@siyacer what is that supposed to mean?
I'm Brazilian and I don't just "consider myself", I'm western. I live in a country located in the Americas, in the western hemisphere, I speak a Latin language, I am Catholic, the institutions of my country are western, we have a western way of life, we are heirs of Greco-Roman thought and 95% of my country has at least 1 European ancestor. Anyone who says I'm not western is either ignorant or prejudiced.
I'm Mexican and I agree with you, but they don't like us to be part of the west because we are poor.
@@laughingvampire7555 the lack of many* wealthy high-income countries in Latin America plus racism I think play a role in this.
Western civilization is a made up term, the Greeks learned most of their thought philosophy and religion from Ancient Egyptians and Middle eastern societies. Even this writing "English" is actually a form of Ancient Egyptian writing the Macedonians being illiterate before they got a hold of this simplified version of the African script from the Phoenicians. Even numbers you know the ones we use 1 2 3 etc they come from India. There is no West without Africa and the East so it's basically a made up term that kind of ignores the origins of much of "western civilization" origins in the rest of the world.
bien dicho weon
@@xianxiaemperor1438 Most europeans I have talked to consider latin americans obviously part of "the west" or western civilization, the problem cmes from racists from the US who see our nations as a backyard, just like russia wants to eat up Ukraine and eastern europe.
@ 3:43 Wait a minute... I see what you did there...
An example of the classy high brow humour I like :D
Hey Jack's here now it's a party
I've always wandered why some countries of Latin America is not considered part of the Western Civilization, even though here in Brazil we do consider Brazil as a western country. We understand that we are not developed and white, but we see the west more like a culture thing, not a race or economical thing.
The West means different things to different people. In China, Korea, and Japan it has a very different meaning to in Western countries themselves.
@riverbend This is true. For many "non-White" peoples, Western and European might as well be interchangeable. The Cold War-era East-West division of Europe that, to a large extent, effectively made Slavic and Eastern European synonymous in "Western" Europe was an idea that never took hold in much of the non-European world.
The term just shouldn't be used. Just use "Anglo-Saxon", "European", "Western European", "Romance", "Latin", "Christian", "Hellenistic", "Mesopotamian", or whatever the heck you mean.
Is Japan your favorite Western country? Lol.
Anglo-Saxon might be the least appropriate criterion for "West" among those mentioned, considering that Romans barely got to them, and they really only got Westernized coz they got invaded by Frenchified Vikings.
Every Western Civ class should begin with this video.
I actually came here because my Western Civ. class IS starting with this video XD
You guys have classes on western civilisation??
yeah that just shouldnt be a class lmao what a head ass curriculum, and thats coming from me, an american 🇺🇸
Is this some American thing because I don't understand lol
"Murder is bad, mkay?" - Marcus Aurelius, meditations
Cogito = "I think" in Latin
Ergo sum
I’m Croat, and I feel Western. All of my family is Catholic. We use latinic alphabet. We only learn languages that are refered as western. We have a lot of western countries that we are allies with.
but who did you get those values from? it wasn't saudi arabia
wow good for you
Great video. This would go great with a follow up video on the evolution of the term "East", and the various ways it was called (i.e., How "Asia" used to mean Anatolia, but nowadays people initially associate with China).
That is a cool idea. It's funny when you read about ancient Rome and they refer to modern Turkey as Asia minor. :D
@@CogitoEdu Turks are Asiatic
@@mariussielcken Turks of Turkey are not asiatic. Only their language!
Same with Hungarians. Their ancestors where also Asian, but DNA results of Hungarians and Turks show that they are not Asiatic
Anatolia was mostly known as "Asia Minor" if anything.
Miss Usage of "First World" as it is a Cold War term meaning "The United States, Europe and their Allies." as opposed to "Second World" being "The Soviet Union, China and their Allies" and "Third World" being the states aligned with neither. It is a political label, not an economic.
I was just reading "Occidentalism: The West in the eyes of its enemies" by Ian Buruma and Avishai Margalit (quite an interesting read, btw) and this video was very convenient to understanding the notion of what the "west" is (or is not). Thanks for exploring that topic.
In addition I would suggest to read GERMS AND STEEL - THE FATES OF HUMAN SOCIETIES - Jared Diamond and Civilization The west and the rest.
Every time my students here in Japan say they like "western music", I always think of country music XD. My American brain makes West synonymous with "out West" and cowboy hats XD
haha, I assume there were some disappointed Americans watching this video hoping cowboys would appear. We have a similar stereotype in Ireland with "The West", for us it means rural people, sheep, and thick accents :D
should that be south ?
I always find the term "Western music" kind of funny since if you go to far west and hit the coast then you're no longer in the west and alot of the people dont like anything "western", and the people that consider themselves western dont like alot of the people west of themselves.
Western "american" music is awsome though.
@@CogitoEdu Well you're excused since the west of Ireland is indeed unremittingly rural.
A fair-minded and cogent articulation of the 'West'-- wonderful stuff. I think you missed an opportunity for further clarification though when you used the term 'first-world' which is itself an equally problematic term. It originates, as you may well know, from the interaction of the cold war to differentiate capitalist allied (first world), communist aligned (second world), and neutral third-parties (third-world). It only took on connotations of economic development in very much the same stream as the 'Eastern Other'; propaganda buried in the connotations of our language to remind ourselves that we are distinct and superior. You alluded to this dynamic with the solidification of 'Western values' as being liberal free-market but I thought this comment might add a bit of nuance.
Either way, it's an excellent video and I'm fast becoming a fan of your channel.
Seriously. I can't believe people use "First World" and "Third World" in 2022.
The term 'The West' has no meaning. If you mean culturally European/European influenced, Russia should be included in 'the west'. If you mean the rule of law, democracy, freedom, etc. Japan, South Korea, and lots of other countries should be included. So, in reality, it's an empty term with no real meaning.
@Wiegraf if the church is the dividing factor then Greece wouldn’t be included.
To me the West is a cultural and geopolitical group.
That’s why Japan/South Korea and Russia/Belarus are excluded.
The West is the Anglo-sphere + EU
@Wiegraf words evolve over time.
Whenever anyone in Europe, Africa, Asia or North America refers to western countries, they are not talking about Latin America, Russia or Belarus.
EU is not the only deciding factor tho, I’d also consider Norway a western country.
But it just so happens that the vast majority of countries who are in the western block are inside the EU.
When Ukraine and Georgia no longer have Russian separatists and the Russian military in there borders I’d also consider them western.
Bro, I agree that democracy was a western concept but there were so many other western values that were not part of western culture itself like women can't even show feet in old times. They did not had any rights. But now western values are different. I think people confuse western values and modern values
"Western" for most part appears to be a euphemism for "white" minus Eastern Europe.That's part of the reason why many Asian, Latin American and African countries are not considered nor identify themselves to be "Western" despite many countries within these continents having all three characteristics of what most define as "Western"(Democratic, Capitalist, and Judeo-Christian).
that is not true. many if not most latin americans, especially anyone who is urban (latin america being the most urban region as well) would consider themselves western. it's a cultural term. latin america has western colonial roots, was settled by europeans, speaks western languages, practice western religions, has western governments and laws, western values (look who is legalizing gay marriage & weed and you see latin america right along side europe & anglo america), and has been influenced by and been an active participant in all western literary and artistic movements. latin america is clearly part of the west.
@@igguilloda4383 so is majority of eastern Europe
Majority of Latin Americans identify themselves as Latin. Let’s not forget many of these Latin countries (Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay) still have a white majority population.
Then what about Argentina and Uruguay, both white majority?
@@therealnuggetballI don't think eastern europe is really progressive compared to south america tho, just that part
Basically all you really need to know about the West vs East thing is "context"
Great video! Great content, good knowledge and very pleasant animations. I loved it and will watch other videos from your channel now! It is so rare to find a a channel doing such quality videos. Thank you!
Thank you for such a nice comment! Glad you enjoyed the video :D
Very informative video Cogito!
It would be really interesting some research and a video of the history of Latin America and the evolution of their territories. The pre-columbian and advanced civilizations that existed for centuries in some regions, the arrival of Europeans mainly from Spain and Portugal, the development and economies of the Viceroyalties established since the XVI century, and their relationship with the British colonies in America.
Cheers!!
Yeah the terminology is tricky, especially for someone like me from Serbia since when I say "the west" online I generally mean Western Europe + North America but that implies I do not feel a part of the western civilization which I very much do being both Christian and influenced by Greco-Roman culture. Furthermore in the first sense you can argue most of Europe is not western but in the second definition Russia is western too
Yet, Christianity arose in the ME and Greco-Roman culture influenced North Africa, East Africa, the ME and South Asia.
I think an important distinction can be made by saying, "Russia is a Western society, but it is not a part of the West"
(i.e., it is primarily a European colonialist culture, influenced by Greek and Roman traditions, but it is not currently a fully modernized, globalized economy, relative to other Western societies)
Russia is not western. They use a different writing system and evolveed over the orthodox culture values We more in comon with Mexico than russia. That is not bad. Russia is an awesome country that I encourage people to visit
@@007GoldenLion
..I'm not saying I disagree but you're being vague. Are you suggesting that Russia is not a Western culture? If so, you'll need better reasons than that.
Greece also doesn't use the same alphabet and has Orthodox values (obviously, it founded the church).
I think it is semi-Western. It has produced works of literature, music, and philosophy mostly appreciated by Western scholars, not Eastern.
And yes, if you haven't visited, I encourage you to. It's a beautiful country.
@@Shadow7700
so youre saying portugal and spain straight descendants of latin romans aren't western literally being on the edge of western europe geographically?
Congrats on being the first video to show up when I type “ what is the west “ very informative
Nice. I like how you inject complexity into the term and show how nebulous the term is. Also I'm always glad when someone uses Said :)
Thanks, Said presents some really interesting ideas and I've been having a lot of fun reading up on him lately. You're video on Orientalism was great and actually help me a little with this video. So thank you :D
What is "Said"?
I use "the west" to refer to Europe, the Americas and Australia. I use "the east" to refer to Asia. And and the rest are specified as needed.
*anglo america
@@DameOfDiamonds All of America, North and South. Not just north as Anglo refers to the USA specifically.
@@DKannji latin america is not western "Western" implies more than just geography, it implies race and culture. Latin America not part of the West.
@@DameOfDiamonds Latin America is basically the west in my opinion. And the east and west are just vacuous terms referring to a collection of cultures with similar traditions.
@@DKannji how is "latin" america western when they don't have any western european heritage?
I think the real question is can most people even find Letchenstein on a map
So, apparently, "...the disciplines of science, philosophy, and history, ..." are amongst the "central values" of 'the West', 'though, with not that many folk, in either 'the East' or 'the West', spending that much time devoted to thinking of these subjects, in the main more elites of either, can these studies really be so easily Occidentalised?
"Constantinople would fall to the Ottomans in 1453 and afterwards the Greek, Roman, and Islamic knowledge that they had accumulated and preserved was brought back to Europe by scholars and traders. The Renaissancewith all its fancy naked statues got into full swing. The West began to reimport Western Civilisation, with all the additions the Byzantines, Muslims, and others had made to it."
Even couched in ambiguity, leaving deliberately obscure quite whom 'twas who had "...accumulated and preserved..." all that knowledge, this claim is flawed in that the Renaissance was already underway, afore 1453. The importation of these knowledges, as had been very predominately developed in 'the Islamic World', and in the very main by Muslims, had not only already commenced well afore 1453 but, rather than after the fall of Constantinople, the primary routes came through Al Andalus/Islamic Spain, and through other contacts predominately in the Western Mediterranean interchange areas (the Balearics, Sicily, Southern France, and Southern Italy), from the 13th Century on, from academic seekers such as Adelard of Bath, Roger Bacon, and others finding Islamic institutions of Higher Learning, afore returning to help establish the likes as the first 'Western' Universities, rather than by the notion advanced in this interpretation.
In general, personally speaking, such labels can be as useful as they are limiting; not best favoured of them.
Ah yes 4:06 finally a accurate depiction of Australia
I was shocked to Discover that there are folks ignorant enough to not now that Latin America is western.
@Янко Янков lol.
@Янко Янков lol. That was the ignorance I was talking about. Most people in Brazil are descendants of europeans. Western is not a synonim to developed. We share our system belief but we also share the law system, architecture and etc. There are whole states with italians, germans and etc here. Only few Native in the North region (the least populated). We are the largest italian, ucranian and polish diasporas in the world. You are Just an ignorant speaking of a thing you don't know. You can't look at millions of european descendants and say they are Native American. It's Just plain ignorance.
@Янко Янков we are not brown. We are mixed. Plus the caucasoid race have variation from scandinavian to mediterranean. Most portuguese and spanish are dark caucasoids like most brazilians. My whole family, including me have blue eyes... Anyway, its not up to you to define. 😂😂😂
Love me some Said. A further book along this strain that may interest you is Lewis and Wigen's _The Myth of Continents._ It covers much of what you talked about here, but breaks the notion of West/East down much much further. An eye opening piece
The Cynical Historian. Awesome I'll definitly check that out. Wish i had read it before I start writing this video, could have help :D
Referring to the USSR as "the East" with "Eastern values" is silly, because communism literally emerged out of classical liberalism/the Enlightenment.
Marxism and socialist thought in general owes its origins to the French Revolution, which along with the American revolution were the 2 major political events to usher in classical liberalism. Socialist thought had a major influence on "Western" politics leading to the rise of labor unions and parties and progressive policies to improve workers' standards of living.
Lenin worked closely with "Western" social democrats but eventually the Bolsheviks split with them. Mao, Ho Chi Minh, and Pol Pot all studied at Western universities and collaborated with western socialist parties.
To use an analogy, socialism is basically capitalism's younger sibling born from classical liberalism, and no less "Western" than either of them. Capitalism and socialism can be seen as competing economic systems both trying to live up to the promises of classical liberalism for a just, equal, and free society.
wow. i cant believe i didnt know that. ive been a socialist for a quite a while.
why is australia upside down?
Because it’s awesome
You know it’s confusing when Australia is considered Western when I couldn’t be more East. So does “western” in the modern context kind of just means white
So russians are westerns?
There are 4 countries with more whites in Latin America than in Australia, in total, the region has over 300 million whites. Latin America is western, just imagen all the cultural enrichment that the Columbian Exchange provided to humanity and specially to the metropolises in Europe; tomatoes, tobacco, chocolate, potatoes, corn, jazz, tango, salsa, ancient medicines like quinine, ect . It is absurd to say western equates to whiteness. Such a divisive anglo conception, much like that Samuel Huntington. It is also extremely ignorant to think colonialism as it happened in Asia and Africa it is the same as what it was in the Americas, Australia and NZ.
5:44 for those looking for culture
I'm from japan, we are not western. Developed and rich doesn't mean western. West means the country's culture is tied to Western Europe in some way
Yes. You are however democratic no?
@@SSDDssed unfortunately. But democratic doesn't mean western
@@akihikosakurai4013 The first democratic civilization/government originated in Southern Europe(Greece). Today most of the "western world" is democratic, or to be specific representative democracy.
europe, not just western europe
Yeah from an outsider perspective (geography nerd) I’d say that Japan is in a weird situation.
I’d say “west-leaning eastern country” if that’s possible, like if you took right side politics but added multiple left side ideas to it
We’re finally having this conversation
5:04 - I'm starting to think that you've added these mistakes on purpose for viewers to find them. Labrador is drawn incorrectly: much of Quebec's northern coast is given to Labrador for no reason. The southern part of Labrador looks off too, but I'm not sure where that's from (I know this is from another gif file on Wikimedia Commons, and I don't remember such a big mistake being on there).
Also, why does French Algeria have a tiny snippet of land inside Libya's borders? That doesn't look right.
That is a Wikicommons gif you're right. I didn't create it and only used it to show the big picture, I assume the original creator could have made some small mistakes.
I figured you didn't make it. I thought you edited it to produce a mistake as you did with Australia and Mindanao. Would be interesting to see a video, then at the very end have the viewer go back and try to find the mistakes in maps. But that might be distracting.
Side Note: The only real purpose for using such a term as "the West" is a shorthand for the regions within it. Both will convey the same meaning, but one is shorter and less of a mouthful than the other. But, as you pointed out the term "The West" is nebulous enough to negate it's usefulness to the average, um, Westerner (see how it's a shorthand?).
4:08 everyone = why is Australia upside down lol
Me from New Zealand = well at least they got half of New Zealand in the map.
I dislike the term "the west" since 9/10 times people us it they're just trying to say "white" without sounding racist, the only excpetion to that generally being when Russians and some Eastern Europeans use it to mean "non-slavic". The term is generally supposed to mean people of "western culture" or sometimes means Catholic or Protestant religions, but South and Central Americans are all within that both of those groups and the use "the west" to refer to pretty much anyone of European descent... except themselves.
Exactly, and they use the term European aswell just to mean white without sounding racist. I recently had an arguent with a Greek about whether Greece is in the West or in the Orient. i argued it's in the Orient. His arguments turned out to be racial to prove Greece is in the West.
@@oreste8570 people tend to forget there are quite a few white people native to non European areas. There are turkic peoples that look very white living as far east as siberia and western china, there are quite a few people in Afghanistan and even pakistan who are blonde haired and blue eyed, and until ww1 there were a ton of white looking greeks, Armenians, and jews living in the middle east and even north africa. That's without getting into whether places like Russia are considered european. Thrn theres the issue of migration, a large portion of white people live outside europe in places like Canada, the us, and Australia.
When people say "european" or "western" to mean white they ironically wind up sounding just as ignorant as the average racist, they judt sound embarrassed about it
Arthas Menethil you are right! Latin America is western culturally, politically, historically.
But ,the white supremacists decided to take it out of the west for not being mostly white.
@@paulajaramillo937 i never really understood cultural discrimination. Like white supremacists claiming their culture is superior but then looking down on others who adopt their culture for not really belonging. A: if they adopt your culture you no longer have a reason to look down on them except racism and B: cultures change all the time, the French were more Celtic, closer to Scotland, and then Germanic, closer to germany, before becoming a Romance culture, closer to Italy or Spain. Culture and race can align but more often run against it: latin america being closer to spain/Portugal culturally than anything else being a major example. I always found communist countries like Russia and Cuba railing against "western imperialists" funny because both countries have european languages, european political systems, european religions, etc.
Arthas Menethil you are right!! I am from Latin america, specifically Colombia.
In my state, we have little towns similar to Basque country or even Andalusia..!!
But, when you have a contact with some americans, they pretend to be superior o makes you feel your cultural background is inferior.
And I really admire the US, it is a great country, with a great system, but I do not understand how they could discriminate people for not being part of their culture.
We have more similarities with them than you might think..!
usually the term seems to be referring to countries of anglo-germanic origin, particularly german french and english speaking countries
Anglo-Germanic is not a term that makes sense because the Angles were a Germanic tribe and you can't just remove the Saxxons because then you're talking about a completely different group, one that doesn't actually exist. There's also the fact that Germanic as a term doesn't make sense anymore and it's just used in English as a hold over but no one in Germany uses that term. Also French people would not be related to this at all since while there were Germanic migrations France did mainly stay as Romanized Gauls especially in the south. Also you're leaving out Spain and Portugal who are a pretty big deal and also the Goths and also then there's the Vandal's wild trek across the Mediterranean.
Yeah that is true, by anglo I was referring to England in general, but you know, just in general countries with culture coming mostly from Western Europe. But yeah I see what you mean.
So Spain, Italy, Portugal are not include it?
@@davidacosta9158 Hahaha those who created western culture don't belong to it according to that guy haha...
There is the concept of West vs East but there is also the concept of North vs South. Every concept has a level that is larger or smaller in group that categorically places entities to oppose a equally dimension concept.
West and east is almost impossible to define. In my country In Finland some people think we are westeners some (like me) say we are easteners, and maybe most say that we are in the middle or out of category. But the north and south is way easier to define.
Yea this distinction of west vs east is really loose, to the point that it makes no sence. Maybe democracy vs dictatorship, or seculariam vs religion, but east vs west ...cmon.
If democracy is an essential aspect of western culture, does that make Spain during the long Franco's rule not western? the same applies to Germany and Italy during Nazi and Fascist period.
Well that’s the question. What is the west
Brilliant. Absolutely Brilliant. And you have presented an argument at 1:36 I feel (as a historian) does not get enough attention in Western Civ classes. East v. West. And it is something that continues to this day that can be traced back to the wars between the Persians and the Greeks. 2400 years on conflict goes back to 1:36 in this vid.
4.01: why is Australia upside down? 😂😁 I'm really enjoying this channel. I find history fascinating and you present it really well.
Thanks a lot :D Australia looks fine to me :P
To Australia, the rest of the world is upside down.
Great explanatory video, thank you so much , subscribed.
Finally, a map that shows Australia the right way up.
I liked how they showed Australia upside down at 8:05.
I'm not sure if Turkey should be considered as a western civilization, especially now that Erdogan is in charge.
Well the Turkish Republic after the Fall of the Ottomans was purposely based on many Western ideas, so that needs to be taken into account. It's also important to note that a nation's leader can't fundamentally change the "civilisation" of a country that fast.
@@CogitoEdu
"A Nation's leader can't fundamentally change the civilisation of a country that fast"
Same would be applied on Ataturk who tried to change a 1000 years of islam in Turkey.
Nah, Turks are not Western nor European.
@@mehanikal5639 Some live in Europe.
Awesome vid! Keep up the work!
4:59 uuuuuh, what's that landmass west of portugal supposed to be? we've found atlantis boys! x)
Thank you for the subtitles.
"The West" in terms of civilisation means the civilisation that started with Greece and Rome with the Christian church but that means that Russia fits this definition because it does have the Christian church and does follow Greek and Roman culture.
Edit: My geographic idea of "The West" is all of Europe (including Russia), (both) Americas, Australia & New Zealand due to having the Greco-Roman culture & Christian Church. "The East" is East Asia, India & South-East Asia due to being Hindu or Buddhist religions & having similar cultures. Africa, Middle-Earth (plus other Muslim Countries), Central Asia & Pacific Islands don't really fit in the model.
That excludes all of Northern Europe though since it was never part of the Roman empire and has languages and cultures that aren't very closely related to to Rome and most became Protestant, and later pretty secular.
Greece was literally the main opponent of the Latin West during the middle ages. It is also where Russia's anti-Western attitudes come from as Russia sees itself as a heir to the Orthodox Greek Byzantine civilization. it is ridiculous to include Greece as part of the West, but exclude Russia.
I think this comment thread kinda showcases the absurdity of the term. People who talk a lot about "western civilization in demise" only use it to dehumanize others, often core "western values" themselves even as those don't fit the narrative of the people in question.
Russia is the Eastern part of "the West" a subgroup within the major group.
@Emperor Louis The Retard Did I deny this?
Fun fact: Canada and New Zealand are two of the oldest modern democracies after the US. They are older democracies than the UK.
Colombia's democracy is older than that of Canada and NZ, it is older than most European democracies. There have been nonstop elections since its conception, yet most people leave our us and out of what defines Western..
@@johanrodriguez7147 "Johan Rodriguez
43 minutes ago
Colombia's democracy is older than that of Canada and NZ, it is older than most European democracies. There have been nonstop elections since its conception, yet most people leave our us and out of what defines Western.."
-Colombia did not fit the common criteria for democracy until 1991.
- So-called "independence" does not equal democracy. I notice you don't include any dates.
@@j2174
1. Colombian elections have been uninterrupted since 1830, the first popular election in free Spanish America took place in Santafe (Bogotá) on the 20th of July, 1810 right during the declaration of independence, people chose a major for the first time in the city's history. That is 37 and 57 years before Confederation occurred in Canada (1867) and much before New Zealand and Australia even received Dominion status (1907) or a became Federated as a commonwealth (1901), before that, governing decisions were made in London across the Atlantic and the world, not exactly democratic. 2. Colombia met all the principles of a democracy even before 1991 when our current constitution was drafted after there was a constitutional assembly voted by the people to get rid of the archaic 1886 constitution, it was pushed by a group of students and the movement was called: "La Séptima Papeleta". Our current constitution is one of the most advanced in the world. Canada, NZ, and Australia didn't even have the capability to change their constitution until the 80s, that is utterly ridiculous that they still depended on the British to decide which aspect of their constitution needed to be changed, yet again, not very democratic
@@johanrodriguez7147 "1. Colombian elections have been uninterrupted since 1830, the first popular election in free Spanish America took place in Santafe (Bogotá) on the 20th of July, 1810 right during the declaration of independence, people chose a major for the first time in the city's history. That is 37 and 57 years before Confederation occurred in Canada (1867) and much before New Zealand and Australia even received Dominion status (1907) or a became Federated as a commonwealth (1901), before that, governing decisions were made in London across the Atlantic and the world, not exactly democratic. "
--1. a city is not a country.
"2. Colombia met all the principles of a democracy even before 1991 when our current constitution was drafted after there was a constitutional assembly voted by the people to get rid of the archaic 1886 constitution, it was pushed by a group of students and the movement was called: "La Séptima Papeleta". Our current constitution is one of the most advanced in the world. Canada, NZ, and Australia didn't even have the capability to change their constitution until the 80s, that is utterly ridiculous that they still depended on the British to decide which aspect of their constitution needed to be changed, yet again, not very democratic"
--2. 1991 comes after "the 80s".
Also, there were plenty of stipulations on voting, all kept power for the few in Colombia, such as a literacy requirement (what do you think the rate of illiteracy in Colombia was in the 1800s?....even in 1900 it was nearly 70%), possessing real estate worth at least 1000 pesos (or rent of 300 pesos), something about "public corporations" control, etc. Women also could not vote for quite a while after Canada, NZ, etc. How many people did all this disenfranchise?
Again, Colombia did not meet a common set of criteria applied to all countries.
@@j2174 1. I used Bogotá as the example of when free elections first took place in Spanish America, elections in Colombia still happened much before they even occurred in NZ, Australia and Canada - 1830. 2. Those stipulations mentioned occurred at the same time as other democracies born out of colonialist empires like the U.S where one had to be white, own property and be literate to vote. In Canada, after Confederation only white men 21 years and older could vote only if they held property. In 1876 native people could vote if they renounced their native status. In 1948 Asian Canadians gained the right to vote. In 1950 and 1960 First Nation people and Inuit people gained the right to vote respectively. Just by using your own metrics of measuring things, I could say the same about all the disenfranchised groups that did not gain the vote until very late already mentioned. I suggest you search information about New Zealand and Australia where men 21 and older had to own land up to £50 or be payer of a certain amount in yearly rent in order to be allowed to vote. Aboriginies, Maori, Indians, and Asians were also not allowed to vote in both NZ and Australia until very late when compared to Colombia's minorities. Yet again, your prejudice is not backed by any information that dictates why Colombia was "so different" to the democracies of the time. Colombia got rid of any racial based clause in 1853 which prohibited non white or mestizo people from voting right after Slavery was abolished in the country; that is still 14 years before Confederation in Canada occurred and much before NZ and Australia were even countries, that without taking into consideration the fact that Native people could vote from the start if they met the necessary requirements - All men born in the territory could vote if they were married and were 21 and older after 1853 regardless if they owned patrimony or not .
I didn't know people dont consider latin america western and i dont understand how it isnt
It's because of xenophobic and racist Americans, it's easier to justify mistreatment and abuse of migrants if you can say that they're some other.
"Western" implies more than just geography, it implies race and culture. Latin America not part of the West.
Dixie anglo American this guy could have a diploma saying.
NAZI INTERNATIONAL UNIVERITY
presents this certificate to recognize that
Dixie Anglosaxon
Has participated in the Nazi German and arian course.
@@DameOfDiamonds so latin america derives it cultures from Spain and Spain is a western country, do the math
Thank you. This has helped with my homework
are greeks and eastern europeans western. and are north africans like carthage and egypt western since they played a MAJOR role in influencing rome and the egyptians major role in the hellenistic world? seems to me that the term western is strictly refers to western catholic and protestant europe and them trying to claim ancient history of greece and rome eventhough they had minimal contributions to it compared to others that arent western like egypt, greece and even persia
OECD. West=OECD. I had to go over all this myself for my blog as I did not want to use the term "west". I concluded, the West is the OECD, and, if you want, allies of or countries similar to the OECD, but the OECD, is the west.
That works too. I actually was going to mention this but cut it for time constraints. Thanks for the comment :D
i think any sane person would include South America in "the west". also after reading "why the west rules for now", i always associated the west with all of the agricultural civilizations that sprung up from the hilly flanks, and the east being those that originated between the yanghzi and yellow rivers. i would call Persia and North Africa part of "the west", while China, SEA, Japan, etc are part of "the east". culturally this makes the most sense
The problem is that North Africa and Persia have always been at odds with us. Greeks and Persians, Romans and Sassanids, Spaniards and Moroccans, Austrians and Ottomans, Yankees and Russians. Technically they and we are part of the same Indo-European family, with similar culture, language and religion, but history and politics have separated them from us and we from them.
Why would you even designate an "East" and a "West"?
@@kentuckyfriededgar The religion of most Indo-Europeans isn't Indo-European. Also, Mesopotamian culture, the basis for what is now the culture of most Indo-Europeans, wasn't Indo-European; it was Semitic.
You gotta define your criteria for what you include in "us".
Is there a reason why Australia is upside down in a lot of the maps that were shown? I don't get it haha
Did anyone relise the map of Australia at 3:54 flipped upside down
I keep hearing people say that the term "The West" or "Westerners", is racist and just a cover to describe majority white countries. No. The West is predominantly white, but the irony of calling it racist is that the west is the first culture to eschew identity politics. The West is saying, "Come here, revere Judeo-Christianity, (you don't have to be Jewish or Christian) but revere it, work hard and you're one of us. This is especially true in America. So the West is the Best, America is the Best of the West, and America says, "We don't care who you are, just work hard and don't ask for handouts, and you're in." So its an anti-racist platform really. Now to say, "Yeah but you say the West is the Best, a lot of them are white." Who cares?! Why are you thinking about that! That's like saying you're a chess chauvinist, oh then you must be a Russian supremacist, because most of the good chess players are Russian. No! I just like the game, why do you have to focus on who's playing the game, why do you have to focus on the people so much?
Please, your people believe they are the representation of westerness for being white...
But, history is clear...(anglosaxons, Germans, slavics) were never part of western Civilization.
They can not be the representation of westerness ethnically or racially speaking.
They were never part of it, totally the opposite...
For the anglos, saxons, Germans were the ones responsible for the collapse of Western Civilization.
To me West is specific mentality.
Good explanation. But it would be better if you had included the vagueness of the definition when it comes to categorising countries like Australia, New Zealand, Russia, Singapore; as they could be seen as both East, and West, in terms of Geography, Values, History, Sociopolitical and Economic Structure, etc.
Why/how would you describe Australia and New Zealand as East other than geographically?
Same with Russia. In this case there is often a "European Russian" and an Asian/Eastern Russian which would have more of a mixture of central Asian native groups and European Russians.
@@Momoa786 "White people of romance and celtic background usually are seen as westerns"
- What are "westerns"? LOL
"Germanics and nordics are seen somewhat as western but not so much"
- They are as western as any "romance and celtic" person is. Also, many Anglos are Germanic peoples...
They are all "westerns".
@@Momoa786 Now reply to the rest 😉
I might not hate Lichtenstein, but I do hate the lack of parking spots in Vaduz....damn that was hard to find.
I’m from New Zealand, I don’t consider myself Western due to not being fully European. I’m mixed Polynesian and European (Portuguese), with light skin and hazel eyes but with Polynesian/Islander facial features such as large nose and big lips
Could you do one on worlds? Like the misuse of third world countries? Or developing nations and such since that is thrown around even when it makes no sense?
I'll add it to my list of topics :D It's a really interesting one and I don't like when people throw those terms around either.
THANKS! I do enjoy your videos.
The whole world thing is especially silly when it used to refer simply to alliances but now it's become a synonym for wealth. It at least made sense when it was just NATO, Warsaw Pact and Non Aligned which was an actual organization so you could easily figure out which "world" a country was part of.
third world = non aligned with warzaw pact and nato,
imagine calling austria a third country country today lol
> Greek philosophy and Judeo-Christian monotheism both originate in Persia (Iran).
> Greek and Roman works were translated, withheld, expanded upon, and ultimately brought back to Europe by (Persian) Islamic scholars in Baghdad (iraq).
Seriously??? No one is gonna talk about how good the choice of background score is????
Knowledge! Good memes.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed :D
Me: The Europeans describe Europe as The West and Asia The East, but what about America?
Other Europeans: Let's call them, FAR WEST!
I like that !
accualy the western hemisphare is the americas 😂😂🤦♂️🤦♂️ europe and half of africa are techniclly the far west. d
Do you mean Wild West?
At 3:44, what are the two statues other that Michelangelo's David?
great video, you have explained all the topics in great detail, thank you
Come to the 2nd World countries like South Africa and the word becomes a lot more complicated. Whether you're Western or not depends on your address haha. There's no consensus. Personally I consider someone Western if they don't conform to strong cultural customs, people who can basically live in any other 'Western' country and easily adapt. That includes many Africans/Asians/Latin Americans to varying degrees, but probably not the majority.
First World countries not much different, just a different style.
The rich lives in towers and city's and work low hours, there's no more a middle class in Australia, just elite class and a lower class. It's very very hard to make ends meet when our government demends so much money in tax and groceries, but fail to give out the money to the hard long hours of the lower class. There will be civil riots in Australia within five years. Mark my words.
4:54 just a random big island off portuguals coast alright than
and thats how the Madeira empire started
What is the big island off the coast of southern Portugal?
"VS." is pronounced "versus". It means "against" in Latin. A verse is a line in a poem or a song.
what happened to Australia?
If you watch the video from Australia it looks fine.
I am European and for me we have less in common with US (Except UK ) than with other cultures that are surrounding Europe . For me American culture is a complete denial of European culture and values . Our cities are much more different (Turkish Istanbul or Mexico City is far more European to lets say LA ) , we have got other values . We dress different , we dont have much in common maybe except that the European Countries and USA are in NATO . I think that this alliance is the only thing that keeps us as one "Civilization". I Think that the so called "western civilization" should be divided into Continental European and American/Anglosaxon civilizations .
"and sweet abs" the way he say it OMG IM IN LOVE 🤣🤣🤣
Does the term west have anything to do with the Good vs Evil meme westerners fall for?
Great video, buddy! It's truly is a nebulous term!
Thanks a lot. Yeah I have seen it being used a lot online and decided to actually find out where it came from :D
I think subconsciously it refers to zones of uncontested US dominance.
apparently wherever there is a macdonalds, starbucks, and coca-cola thats THE WEST
Is that Atlantida in front of the Portuguese shore in 3:24?
I would also consider Perú in the not entirely western latin america club: the quechua and aymara ways of life have more resemble with the peoples of Tibet or with perhaps the Saami in northern scandinavia
That's because Peru wasn't born as a Hispanic kingdom like the other three (Mexico, Colombia and Argentina) but as a Native American Empire. Still, I agree with the person who created this video that Latin America should be considered part of the West, but then I think we should reconsider what 'Latin America' is and what countries it contains. Peru, in my opinión, shouldn't be considered as a Latin or Hispanic American country but Latinized or Hispanized. Peru after the Spanish conquest is like a combination of various countries, one of them is Western, the rest of them aren't.
Yes, but those poeple are in the minority of Peru. The majority of the population are people with western ideas and a way of life. You can also say the same thing about minority people in Alaska of USA, or even the native people of northern Sweden.
@@khalidcarrillo1132 Except the Native make up the majority in Peru,Paraguay,Bolivia and Gutamela
BBCNN HAHAHA well done, my friend!
5:11 oh god, socialism vs. capitalism
Love the video. Why is Australia upside down?
"western vs eastern cultures"
"left vs Right"
"First world second world third world"
all those terminologies have already expire in the new age, they're not enough to define the circumstances and deep complexity of the world today.
💯so fucking true
Love the news ticker at the bottom in the beginning "are hobbit immigrants destroying Bree?" I see what you did there and I love it!
In a more modern context, its really a schism between liberalism (west) and collectivism (east).
Italy is East then
Exceptional video!
in general, I find the media and textbook use the West as a caricature for certain aspects of culture (democracy, modernity, secularism) rather than strict geographic determination, so Europe and N America seem to qualify fully as 'the West' in all context. Latin America is seldom referred to as that, even though they are geographically West. And Australia seems to be identified with the Group even though they are even further east than Asia. It seems if the population is majority Caucasian then you get a free pass. Turkey seems somewhere in the middle. Europe allows them into the EU, but we see them getting identified as East in many contexts. It is as u say...confusing.
I think secularism is a pretty recent concept.. People confuse modernization with westernization