Are Motorcycle Tires a Ripoff? The Darkside Car Tire Experiment
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- čas přidán 29. 01. 2020
- Running a car tire on a motorcycle seemed like the dumbest thing ever. So, naturally, we gravitated towards it and decided to give it a crack. Gulp. Don’t knock it till you crash on it - said no one ever.
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It’s almost as if car tyres and motorcycle tyres were specifically optimised for their respective applications
Because that is a fact
I have read some crazy conspiracies in the youtube comments before but this one is just ridiculous.
Yeah... noticed that too... wierd right?
Haha! Spot on. Though you spelled "tires" wrong. ;)
Stephen Wells nah, I think he spelled it right but is it pronounced weird like "tee'ires"?
"Spontaneous uninstallation."
That's almost as good as rapid unplanned disassembly.
Fightre Flighte and often leads to Rapid Unplaned Disassembly
Caution: Pilot may eject without warning.
@@MotoAdventurer
I need that as a sticker to put on my tank just behind the bars.
@@Fightre_Flighte I have a template already
@@MotoAdventurer wul damn. That's hot
Okay, I don't know how I've never seen the kickstand bead break before, but that is way more value than I was expecting from a video about a terrible idea!
Adventure rider move.
Terrible idea? It's saved me bundles and given me thousands of hours of good times. Before I went darkside , tires were an ongoing issue. Not anymore.
Again, car tires existed before motorcycle tires, and motorcycle tires came long after motorcycles. Unless you count the bicycle tires that OG motorcycles road around on as "motorcycle tires".
Please, stop being childish about this topic. It's like believing "reefer madness".
Yup, I would have never thought about that option.
watch the very last part of this video again. We all make compromises between comfort and safety, longevity and safety, expense and safety, style and safety... hell, even between different bike tires you have to make several compromises, so, "terrible idea"... as he said "let it go".
So, either Ryan is into something illegal or he legitimately uses a flip phone.
🤣 good observation 👌
i use one aswell. despise smart phones and what they do to people, and i get texting and calling for like 10 bucks a month, phone cost 40 bucks. EZ
@@illwillsquared i just wanted a phone with a regular keypad, and finally got my hands on one. just like old times
They mentioned this on the highside lowside podcast. He's actually just a luddite.
@@illwillsquared based beyond belief
"we're motorcyclists, masters of measured risk"
Now that's a decent compliment
And in so many cases completely untrue.
Love this comment and most spiritual lol
The risk i took was calculated but man, am I bad at math?
Awesome comment. Might make it my motto.
Masters , idiots that don't like radios and love getting demolished by cars. Whatever u wanna call them
Americans in the comment section are like: „yeah, I have experience with car tires on bikes, it’s not optimal“
Europeans in the comment section are like:
„YOU DID WHAT??????“
You: no experience with both. Darkside and Europe. 🤣🤣🤣 The first car tires on bikes where used in Europe, 100 year ago.
@@corneilcorneil apply water to burned area
@@skrillah6259 cantharis gel: for burns
That was my reaction from UK
Yeah I was like gl with that in my country or the ones around me youd be stopped by a cop in 5min lmao, even if i usually dont see one in months.
Where I think this could be worthwhile would be on a sidecar combination. They're not supposed to lean into turns, so the square profile isn't a problem and in fact gives you a larger "footprint".
I came into this thinking that darksiding is a terrible idea. I still do. Thanks for another great video!
Maybe you should try it, you can't get the experience from a video. Been darkside for years with literally zero issues of handling. It's actually much more stable, even in corners
The quality of the production is so good that i feel guilty for watching it on CZcams.
nice circlejerk
@The Underground Man Still, it's kinda true
So good!!!
His channel is the only one where i keep adblock turned off cuz i want him to continue
His videos are excellent, but I don't pay to see Ari and Zack and won't pay to see Ryan. Why pay for it when free abounds.
5:36 "Car tyre fits a motorcycle like I fit a bikini. Humps and curves in the wrong places" 😂😂😂
Bad Idea...here's why...Front tire contact patch, about 1 1/4" wide. Rear contact patch, about 7", and that is where all the stability issues begin. If the LEFT side of that wide tire rolls over a high spot in the pavement, the bike tilts RIGHT!! and vice versa. If riding a "truck lane" and you get into one of those two valleys in the pavement that heavy trucks create, the bike constantly weaves back and forth, depending on which side of that wide tire makes contact with the slope of the valley. I always had to ride the center of the lane to avoid that weird greasy feeling. After about 3 months I drop kicked that tire into my garbage bin....never again!!!
Wayne Depner What would you think about only back tire on a Ural?
@@stupollock6851 car tires on sidecar motorcycles is nothing unusual. even in the front. I don't know where you're from but here in Europe motorcycle tires on sidecar-conversions are relatively unusual.
jomcjay yes I have seen them when I was on the Isle Of Man. I’m not particularly fond of the look but on back maybe not as noticeable. I’m from Northern Ontario Canada and planning trip on ice road in far north. Just think bigger back tire let you haul more without sinking in snow. Plus added traction. Plus supreme wear and saving. I don’t know why they can’t make bike tires last longer.
@@stupollock6851 they can make bike tyres last longer, and they do. Back in the day I was lucky to get 3000 km from a Pirelli Phantom on a 60 hp bike before the cords showed. Now I get 18 000 km on a 75 hp bike and I change them when they're still legal.
More than that may one day be possible, but right now it's a trade off between handling+grip vs life. There are some very flat, car like tyres that will get you 30 000 km, but they handle like shit, slide all over the place and are really hard to change. So people don't buy them. So they sell in small numbers. So they're expensive.
I have to say FortNine has kicked up the production value of it's videos, and I like it. The editing, videography, audio quality, dialog are all spot on. He could be talking about pants and it would be entertaining. The fact that it's about motorcycles is just a bonus. Keep up the awesome work!
You should see them review motorcycle pants, then!
Misinformation and half truths
Not only did he use a car tire but a fairly modern one at that with Asymmetrical treads on it man has guts
I personally use only symmetrical car tires on my bike.
I thought he was going to explain why bike tyres are so expensive compared to car tyres, not directly compare them lol
Putting a car tire in the back wheel makes it look straight out of a Hot Wheel bike lmao.
The upside is it stands on its own so you don't need a kickstand anymore
@@romiarkan450 Yamaha owners: _finally, a perfect solution._
@@romiarkan450 mine has only done that when pulling a trailer at the same time.
I appreciate
1. the flip phone
2. that your first ride was in the rain with just 'jeans' and not $1.2 million in Klim ultra armor
3. the flip phone
4. your willingness to work on a bike in hipster boots
5. the flip phone
6: taking time for the experiment
7: the flip phone
8: the bike
9: the flip phone
Does KLIM make an "under armor" now or is that someone else?
Flip phones are some early-mid 2000s nostalgia right there. :)
Dont forget about the flip phone 👀
@@southern_merican My phone is a flip phone. The reason? They are near impossible to hack
That sign of the cross just before riding the thing killed me
Rest in peace man
I've darksided a GL for the life a tire, mostly through a very rainy winter in Portland, OR... it was good in snow, it was good in the rain, and it was good for towing a trailer. The tire didn't last much longer than an regular motorcycle tire, in a large part as I spend a lot of time on the sidewall. (I used to own and now occasionally teach for the Northwest Motorcycle School, where we taught a motor officer course to the general public, and much of our riding was full lock, full lean and below walking speed.) I simply wore the shoulders of the tire out, while the center tread was fine. I'm not teaching regularly now, and living in New Mexico, with it's mostly straight roads, I spend far less time on the tire's shoulder. I was looking into another darkside tire, when I noticed the weight difference. A car tire for the GL weighs between 9 and 11 Kg. (20-25lbs), while the motorcycle tires weigh around 3 Kg (according to manufacturers). That terminated my search, the durability might be great, but the added, un-sprung weight kills suspension response, and may have been a good portion of why handling "sucks." Yes, the bike understeers with the car tire, but, as noted in the video, it takes about 10 minutes to get used to keeping pressure on the bar while cornering. However, the tire's following of rough roads is severely compromised, particularly when leaned over. Just one more element to consider.
That was my experience. Flat roads ok uneven roads were really bad. Grooved asphalt was scary. Went back to motorcycle tire.
I've ridden darkside. I actually rode Darkside for over 5K miles, before lowsiding it in a curve one day. The handling characteristics are truly shit. That car tire will follow the contour of the road. I was riding interstate 200 miles a day, which is one reason I made it so many miles before crashing. Let me tell you, Darkside on the interstate is like sitting on the sofa, it is so smooth. It wants to stand straight up, allowing me to cross the entire Dauphin Island bridge with out touching the handlebars. On the other hand, i ran through some tiny pebbles in a curve one evening too fast. I had to "force" the bike to lean far enough, so far, in fact that the asphalt contacted my rear saddlebag, taking the weight off the wheel. I corrected by steering back toward the center of the road, that's when the tire got in its happy spot , back on the tread, going into the old "death wobble". During the extreme leaning, the engine guard had contacted the asphalt and wrapped around my right ankle, rendering me helpless as far as using the rear brake pedal. Long story short, i now can't kick the bike away from me, I'm attached by the ankle, lowsiding on the left side of the road between two street sign posts. That's when bike and I both went over the embankment, still attached to the 700lb beast. She flipped mid-air and flung me off. Came out out of that with three broken toes, and the toe burned off my right boot, oh, and a totaled bike. No more Darkside for me.
"Don't knock it till you crashed on it" - guys, I found someone who crashed on it, can we knock it now?
Engine guard and saddlebag touched the asphalt while leaning and still tire fault??
@@adilsonlegalyt9647 he said the tire caused wobble. I’m not an engineer but i kno tire geometry is very important on a bike. When you lean the bike on a square tire i imagine a sudden jump from the center line of the tire a couple inches over to the edge of the tire where the rounded front theres a smooth transition. Aside from the tendency for the bike to stay upright on the flat, when its at a 45 there is gonna be a mis alignment of the two contact patches by an inch or two i would think. The relation of the contact patches to lean angle, rake and trail are pretty delicate in my experience and designed so you can corner no handed if you want. A low rear changes it enough so that you have to counter steer just to keep the bike leaning in a corner.
So i cant imagine how terrible a square tire would handle. I worked at a bike and had a customer that rides all over the us on a gold wing and I think he said he put 30,000 and counting on a car tire i just cant imagine enjoying country roads like that. In saying that i cant remember what tire he used but from wat i can remember it was pretty specific
Yeah..those engine guard BS bars should be banned,for exactly the reason you mentioned here
Dear God; he's even doing this in wet conditions....
we should be more concerned about the Prius somewhere, wondering about with a Metzeler on/off road bike tire. I think..........
@@timewa851 hahahahahaah
Car tires on the rear work far better in wet conditions than motorcycle tires and have a better traction patch
@@OldSchoolParatrooper If riding in a straight line but once you wish to corner then it would become more dangerous. If the rear square tyre forces you to keep applying steering input to the front as you lean over then that is taking away from what little front grip you have. This is same as braking and cornering at same time i.e. the braking force removes some of the grip available for cornering hence you are more likely to lose a front trail braking into a corner or too deep etc
Marc Fox, it is clear that you have no experiance.
My 2006 Rocket III Classic was a great riding & handling bike with a 225/50R-16 Dunlop Direzza DZ101. Perfect match in all dimensions to the stock Metzler 240/50-16. The sidewall had the same rigidity, identical overall height and width, and it was a sticky performance tire. The tread was a sporty symmetrical & directional pattern with a rounded edge. I ran at about 25psi which resulted in smooth, stable, composed handling and MASSIVE traction advantage over the MT. The bead did not look any different than the Metzler either but I was not using a run-flat. I installed and balanced it myself. Trust me, the size & weight of that rim with brake rotor far exceeded any worries of unsprung weight. And yet, the Dunlop was fairly light as well. I had no vibes or gyroscopic tendencies at any speed. My bike would top out about 135mph - limited by the windshield, floorboards, and bags (and my fat butt). I scraped the boards frequently (thankfully they articulated). If blindfolded, one would only know it was a CT at walking speeds. Above that it was almost unnoticeable. Yes, a bit more counter steer was needed to initiate a lean but by the end of the first day riding you did it subconsciously. Grooved road surfaces didn't affect it much but I think that depends on the tread, pressure, and width mounted on each bike. For my bike/tire combo, it was well behaved, confidence inspiring, and FUN to drop clutch and peel out. No more applying throttle timidly while turning for fear of losing the rear. Nope. pour it on and leave a beautiful black arc behind.
But before I have rotten vegetables heaved my way, yes, there are some drawbacks and you need to gauge your abilities. If you have even the slightest doubt, then by all means don't do it. Those of us who darkside don't just throw any POS tire on there.
#1 - Darkside is not for all bikes. The GS is probably not the ideal candidate being so tall and narrow. Best left to heavy, lower, tire grinders like Power cruisers & touring bikes.
#2 - Narrow rim & wide tire are not a good combination. DS works better on a wide rimmed bike. In this test a narrower tire (if even possible with the given wheel) would have produced better results.
#3 - Tire pressure looked high and gave the impression the handling looked edgy. Inflation is key to good tread/sidewall compliance.
Regardless, I thoroughly enjoyed the video and would say almost everything he said was correct.
Always knew this was a terrible idea, but this video did a perfect job of explaining why. Excellent work. Always wondered but never wanted to try this.
I have had occasion to ride a car-tire-equipped motorcycle. I see it as yet another way for the 'cheap bastards club' to ruin a perfectly good motorcycle in their quest to save a buck.
@@HalfCrazy520 I know a repair shop in my vicinity that used to modify car tires so they fit better on motorcycles, the place was shut down under claims that their work was putting people in danger, everyone who used them will say it was completely harmless as long as you didn't speed. I don't know since i've never used them, i'll try one day for sure.
When you find yourself going faster than you should be in a long, sweeping corner, MC tires seem like a real bargain.
The non-motorcycle specific tire will hold just fine when you find yourself going faster than you should in a long, sweeping corner, with better traction should there be dust, dirt, and/or water on the road surface.
I scrape the floorboards on my Goldwing running a run flat car tire on the rear. I can detect to change in handling.
@@wncryder In your mind.............
@@alm4132 Okay! 🤣🤣🤣
I've scraped the pegs on my gl1800 with car tire. You can't turn any harder than that.
As soon as I saw thr zip ties come out, I was like "you're crazy".
Seeing the flip phone confirmed that. Lol
Mans living in 2120
I have the Kyocera dura flip phone like his. It’s awesomely rugged.
Zipties are a legit great way to put tires on though, saves so much swearing
@@JohnTrelow Fair point that I was not aware of... But, makes sense.
@@midnightmagician2 I never had a Keyocera.
I had an LG flip as my first color screen, then a Razer. As far as flip phones.
Great video, interesting topic. My take on it.... I would never be a mooch and try to save a few dollars on a car tire when my motorcycle was designed by countless engineers to operate with the recommended rubber. I will stick with their recommendation, feel better about it, and I'm sure when I'm going around a corner well over 100 miles an hour I will feel a lot better with my motorcycle Dunlop Tire. Now do whatever you like.
Brilliant, as always! I see the comment regularly that this is the best Motorcycle related content on YT but after nearly exhausting your library I am convinced you have the best "Do-It-Yourself" content on the Inter-Web! I watch everything from Auto-Centric to Xylophone Repair and Race/All Terrain/Off Road/4X4 to DIY of every topic and I do not see the consistent high quality and creative thoughtfulness of F9. Nobody, Nowhere, Knowhow. I will shut up now and start at the top. Thanks for the great Videos and for sharing your talents.
The most important thing this does for me is that it EXPANDS the size of my dating pool by such an increase in carry capacity. This is not just a motorcycle idea- it's social engineering.
So you're saying the song playing from your bike is 'Fat bottomed girls' by Queen?😂
🤣
So you're saying now you can carry two regular size chicks on the bike with you? 👍
Does that mean you're also a mopeder? I mean they're fun to someone sees accelerate. LOL
I gave up fat girls in my early 20's.
You know what they say about fat girls? They're like motor scooters. They may be a lot of fun, but you don't want your friends to catch you riding one.
I like the center stand bead breaking! Genius!
Yeah, i noticed that too. 😊👌
Loved that
Yeah, that was new to me.
It's actually a pretty common way to break the bead on tires.
Common trick for us dual sporters on the trail.
Wow! Kudos, Ryan. Excellent journalism, potentially lifesaving. You rock.
I like this guy, his voice and how he explains things. Very well presented and rarely rambles or doesn't waste time.
Driving a car: Steer Wheel
Riding a Motorcycle: *Look at these equations*
@@HJC1950 “poor safety numbers”? What “poor safety numbers”?
@@wncryder Lol, they deleted their comment
@@hvymtal8566 Seems there aren’t any “poor safety numbers”! LOL
@@wncryder what was the full original comment?
@@AboveW I can’t quite the full original comment, but it was something about “poor safety numbers”, but then no “poor safety numbers” were given. And rather than list the “poor safety numbers”, the original comment was deleted. LOL
I've been putting motorcycle tires on my Truck for years now
Brother (and I am going to safely assume you're a dude with that kind of thoughtline), you best throw that up on YT if you're doing that.
@@Condorito380 haha nah I'm just messing around, But wouldnt that be a sight!
How much can you lean your truck? 😛
And your cornering is amazing!
There are people who put them on their steer tires for drag racing. They're cheaper and the correct size for what they're looking for.
Again excellent writing and vid!! We all knew this instinctively (well except the issue of the tire wanting to flex back to perpendicularity).
but dissection is the entertainment. Well done!!!
I ride a HUGE Victory Vision, I weigh 260lb and I could not be happier going darkside. I have run flats and it handles just fine on the twisties. To each his own. (BTW put a car tire on my other bike as well/happy).
I've upgraded my suspension and eliminated the tires,I don't have to worry about flats, it feels like I'm riding
on rails.
You eliminated tires? Thsts interesting, tell us moar 😂👍
"Where were going, we dont need roads"
Sir you've actually built a very small train.
I just tried this, and you know what? You're right! It feels exactly like you're riding on rails. And it makes a real pretty light show at night too.
"We're motorcyclists, masters of measured risk"
Well put. No doors or seat belt and half the tires.
@@davidrobinson4797 and lean angle
@D PIW : Dude they're not talking about darksiding.. You're in wrong comment..
D PIW No, it's in context of whether you want to do it or not.
Ha. True Darksiders will scald you for choosing an obviously asymmetrical thread pattern.
A video I've never searched for or wanted but found it really interesting, nice upload 👍👍😎😎
Exceptionally good evaluation of tires and how they work. Loved it.
how come each and every video on this channel is a cinematic gem
awesome production quality
Amazing video explanation backed up with facts not opinion. Best dark side video ever.
Because they value quality over quantity. That's why you wont see a new video within the next week or maybe even two. I like it and yet I want more and more often. A love-hate relationship if you will.
ajay choudhary Aneesh Shivanekar is the filmmaker. His videos + Ryan's essays = consistent gems.
@@BuildingCenter hell yeah, I love that the script always takes the shape of a story. Ryan is a subtle genius
Sponsored by who?
This is like if VSauce and Engineering Explained had a baby
Don't insult Fortnine like that.
Just way better personalities, pacing, timing, editing, and subjects to cover
@@colormesarge How is this an insult ? Both are amazing imho
@@colormesarge Isn't forkknife that video game americans and kids play?
@TewSlo ... or is it ?
I don’t own a bike, yet I’ve watched three of this guys vids and love em.
Perfect mix of digestible knowledge, smart wording, and humor.
And stupidity.
@@bobjiroutek2719 yeah I suppose you could interpret it as stupidity if your brain is too small to understand what’s going on in the video and the words he enunciates clearly to make his points.
@@SarntRexxo One could enunciate clearly that the earth is flat.
@@bobjiroutek2719 right, and you wouldn’t believe it even if it was true because rather than choose to understand something you currently do not, you take it at face value and call it stupid from an insight of intentional ignorance.
@@SarntRexxo Gosh, you’re really good at making assumptions. I should hire you to rewrite all my life experiences. I prefer to listen to the real pros- the riders who put their knees to the pavement. No auto tires there!
Hahaha 2:37 sign of the cross… legit do this anytime I’m about to attempt something sketchy 🤣
2:29*
"Boutta do some sketchy shit, doo-da, doo-dah. Hope I get away with it, oh dee doo dah day!"
Why? If you believe in a God the you believe he has a plan and therefore knows everything you're going to do, therefore everything you do is predetermined, so why do that (which is in effect a prayer to ask to be safe)?
@@flippy66it's just a funny thing to do, it's not that deep...
I love when the good ol' Canadian unit system comes out "a 4000lb car to travel 100,000km". Don't forget that travel distance is measured in time!
Just like how I can be 180cm tall and weigh 200lbs. lol
@@Gofr5 some places in Canada use feets for people height
@@QcOncleGab I do, for without feet I'm almost a foot shorter.
my local town is 45mins away.
@@QcOncleGab Yes. admittedly I prefer feet for my height too.
Just... Just some of the best edited/filmed/shot/written and entertaining content on CZcams (that I have come across). As both a motorcyclist and content consumer- Thank you for the time/effort you put into your work.
This channel is truly special.
Aneesh Shivanekar, the videographer/producer, is an artist.
@@Miata822 It would be cool if they did a "Behind the Lens" episode or something to learn more. A lot of us really love the work this team is doing.
Yes this kid is a genius
the quality of these videos is just amazing. even with unlimited budget I doubt someone can do better.
I'd never heard of it until the subject came up on a Bike forum a couple of days ago so I thought I'd try to find out more. Thanks for the very informative video. I slapstick to bike specific tyres and hang the cost. I am cost conscious but not to the point of jeopardizing my safety that much.
This is a fever dream of an episode. Like something out of black mirror.
Isa It’s our man Aneesh adding that magic flavour flav. Dope ass music choices every time. The channel production has gone through the roof since moving out west. Good stuff Ryan & Aneesh!
@@hellomoto4240 It's got nothing to do with moving out west and everything to do with getting to Carnegie Hall (practice, man...just practice) :)
Jan Støving dafaq you talking about? He’s the cinematographer & editing
@@hellomoto4240 yeah, I know...I was just referring to an old joke.
A couple of tourists are lost in New York. They walk up to a guy carrying a guitar and ask him how to get to Carnegie Hall (a famous concert hall) and he replies "practice, man...just practice"
I feel it.
1:44 a rare sight of Ryans burner phone for whenever he needs a gun to shoot motorcycle stuff with... for testing purpose ofc....
To anyone working a creative job - switch to a dumbphone! You'll have more ideas if you don't waste all your spare minutes looking at a screen. ~RF9
@@FortNine That's a neat idea, I might just try it myself. Thanks!
@t c I got an apple watch for that. im not always taking my phone with me when I go out and people can still call and text me, and I can still use GPS but im not distracted by social media, fake news etc.
@@FortNine More nuggets of wisdom for us fans- great idea.
@@FortNine *me looking at my phone to consume this creative content* Hmm, yes...
Yet another GREAT F9 vid. Kudos.
A large friend of mine runs car tires on his 1800 Goldwing. He says once you get used to the handling it's fine.
Your videos are amazing, I cant believe I am just now finding your channel. Thank you.
I think this is the first ever review of Darksiding where the review actually Darksides. My hat is off to FortNine on this one. Good job guys!
Josh Chambers yeah, I couldn’t believe he was experimenting that under the rain !
He explores areas others don’t have the stomach for, i surely wouldn’t dare it to my motorcycle..
I'm on my fourth car tire on my Valkyrie. I crossed the country numerous times, and have over 80k miles DarkSiding. The only thing I've ever had to stomach are the nay sayers who feel their opinions trump facts.
@@MrJoshcornkid he does not say that it cannot be done as many crazy things can be done with a bike, just that it's not rational, secure and bright. That's why, like creationism, it's an US-only quirk that's made possible because of the fact that most of the US roads are straight lines and US riders are not so much in riding in twisties like in other parts of the world.
Face it, like creationism, it is a religious issue and facts and science are never going to convince a darksider, just as they're never going to convince a creationist. :-)
A few years back I bought a GoldWing that had a car tire on the back. Everything you said was valid. There was another issue that you didn't really cover. The hard rubber causes way less traction even in a straight line. The Wing would light up the tire every time I would accelerate, even with my wife on the back. It followed this up with locking up whenever the brake was applied. So, in addition to not cornering or going straight, it also couldn't accelerate or brake. But at least it would last the rest of my life. Just like a parachute that doesn't open.
The traction issue would be very dependant on the particular tire used, there are soft road car tires out there, there are also long lasting "eco" tires that don't grip for shit, so is the case for motorcycle tires really- many people would be better off with a soft car tire for commuting rather than a hard moto one.
@@piciu256 I got michelin road 5's and I swear it must be made of a cheese compound because I've picked out bits of glass and found another nail.. it's a road vacuum cleaner.
I use drag radials on the back of my V twin. Waaay more cornering traction than the michelin cruiser tire I had on it. I couldn't pull a wheelie before on the bike tire either. It just spun. Now it picks the front end up. You do have to countersteer in the corner, but the bead conforms to the motorcycle wheel much better than you're hearing here. There are no metal bands on the far inside lip of a car tire. That edge easily conforms to the inner bead of the bike wheel.
You probably didn't have Michelin pilot sport 4s and were using a cheap passenger tire.
@@potatochobit actually I just checked. It was a Metzler Marathon 888. A $300 tire.
I hardly watch any 10 min. Video. Idk how but this guy keeps me hooked for longer than that all the time.
I ran a car tire on a 650 Burgman for a few years without problems. Handling was as good as the OEM tire once I got used to the slightly different feel. Also of note was the much smoother ride, especially when the air pressure was around 32-34psi. More air and the bike rode more on the edge, making the bike feel squirrelly. Darksiding isn't for everyone.
That's an Awsome trick using your kick stand to break the tyre bead, I've never seen that before 👍👍👍
+1
The middle stand looks like it's built to allow you to do this. Probably a feature of this kind of bike.
holyy crap just saw it now :OOO i use mine for drifting and stunts so i go thru tires like 1 or 2 a week and i do them by hand ... this would have saved me soo much pain blood and time. gonna be trying this in about 2 or 3 days !!
The sidestand trick has been around since god was a child.
best part of the video for me!
I've got LEGO tires on my bike and everything is awesome!
XD
On a serious note Lego makes the most tires out of any company ever.
Because you have a lego bike
you feel like your part of the team
.... everything is cool when you're part of a team!
Everything sounds awesome!
You must be living in a dream
Amazing editing and camera work 👌
I have a 85 Gold Wing 1200GL & Dark sided it with a Nexen 165/80/15
Cornering is no problem and now I have better braking, grip, water displacement
and far better with a passenger + trailer. It also has an actual load rating...I'm staying on The Dark Side !.
You know they are doing something right when they don’t even tell you to comment, like, and subscribe but still get these due to their quality content
I have to disagree with the "higher mileage" point. Having been turning wrenches professionally on bikes for 15+ years, I have changed thousands of tires in my career. Many were utterly destroyed car tires. The tread wasnt hurt hardly at all. Its the sidewall that takes the hit. When you put big fat bikes on a 2 square inch contact patch while cornering, rubber flexes. Being that the sidewalls are drastically thinner, they flex first. This will generate excessive localized heat and wear and will eventually appear as if something was jammed into the side of the tire and rubbed a groove into it for a few hundred miles. Ive physically seen the sidewalls fail and cause the bike to go down, which totals the bike. And get this, these tires only had a few thousand miles on them.
Maybe its different in flat states without a single turn for hundreds of miles, but out here in east TN where the road maps look like a plate of spaghetti, darkside is a big hell no!
Couldn’t have said it better my self .
Every time a post like yours comes out, or like one I mention where a dude crashed twice on car tires, due to blowouts, I'm told to "prove it". It's funny how one side is believed, without comment, while another is disputed. Great comment.
@Wroger Wroger Another good point. Ill add that motorcycle tires work best and have the most traction when they are warm. They become more malleable and adhere to the road better compared to when cold. Car tires are designed to resist all heat buildup possible so they last longer and will NEVER benefit from the effects of a warm tire and will not have the same amount of traction as a real motorcycle tire.
There are sometimes blowouts with car tires, because run flat tires are run way too long without any air. They are so dang dependable that some folks think they can ignore routine PSI checks. However, a low tire sidewalls are MORE vulnerable upon the thinner motorcycle tire, and I've been guilty of ignoring them when I was young.
Another neglect caused by car tires is the required maintenance on shaft drive bikes. The car tires last three or four times as long, so gears are neglected until they run dry and self destruct.
A flat state, and commuting 80 miles each work day, was exactly why I was considering them, but no car tire would fit the back of the Vulcan I had. I would have done it in a heartbeat to avoid changing out rear tires so much. The way I see it, I wouldn't do it for two bikes, but for a dedicated commuter or cross-country bike, sure.
Always wondered why you can't get a motorcycle wheel with an automobile bead seat. I can literally order wheels of both types to be CNC'd from a billet of metal.
Thanks, Ryan. Very well done, as usual! I have had a Semperit M&S tire on the back of a Burgman 650 scooter now for 3 years. Works fine, EXCEPT: longitudinal seams in the pavement are downright scary! Leaned over traction is not a problem, since the giant scooter does not lean over very far anyway; parts drag right away. The M&S tire actually gives some traction; the stock tire gets stuck on wet grass. Still not sure about tire pressure; anywhere from 25 to 40 seems to work just fine. Please note that I am a dirt rider, and might not be noticing some of the nuances of pavement handling. Thanks again!
"spontaneous uninstallation" LOL.
As if this has ever happened......Please someone post a link where this has happened...
@@justmyself1000 I've been doing on-and-off research on darksiding for twelve years and have read nearly a thousand NHTSA motorcycle crash reports, and have never found ONE where the primary- or even suspected- cause of the crash was a bead failure on a darkside (DS) tire. Plenty of drunk/impaired riding, lots of cars turning left in front of bikes, many excessive speeds, failures to negotiate turns, and even some tire failures (ALL of them motorcycle tires and often due to overloading or running underinflated), but nothing that would suggest DS is an unsafe practice. I have challenged the naysayers to provide ONE verifiable case of a crash or refusal of insurance claim due to DS, and have had ZERO takers. I've been riding the mountains of northern Wyoming for three years now on a V Star 1300 with a BF Goodrich, and it is a fantastic combination for comfort, durability, and safety.
He's a real motorcycle guy, the flip phone proved it😂😂
@Hippity Hoppity Then buy a used phone from an independent seller
I mean, I work in tech yet I have a OnePlus 6 (not a bad phone when it came out but close to outdated by today's standards). Flip phone guys have a point. They never need software updates and the battery is almost always replaceable. If the battery in my phone goes bad it's likely going to cost more than the value of the phone to replace with an OEM part. This is by design.
@@marc-andreservant201 That doesn't measure up to all the things you can do with a smartphone and can't do with a flip phone.
The Zac Morris of motorcycles...
@@marc-andreservant201 just fyi if you are okay with DIY look into ifix it. I replaced the battery for my 6t at one point for 50 bucks. If I ever need to replace it again it would be about 30 dollars because I don't need the tools anymore.
Living and riding a Goldwing in Australia with large distances of flat straight roads, darkside makes sense. I agree with the tram track effect at times, but not always.
Thank you for doing this and spelling out the details so clearly! This needed to be done! Handling is the most important (and well-designed) part of my Honda GL1800, and I wouldn't sacrifice it (by using wrong-shape tires) for anything. Smooth transition across the center point when going back and forth (and I ride in the mountains a lot) is critical to the DRIVER controlling the MOTORCYCLE and not the other way around.
I agree! My Wing will always have the prescribed overpriced tire on it as that is what the little gnomes in the design studio engineered the bike to use. Cars are a totally different matter. My old Firebird had huge rears and standard fronts, my Jeeps all had knobby rollers, my Miatas all had racing tires, etc... but at no time was I counting on just one tire to keep me planted firmly to the asphalt! I even saw a car with the donut spares at all 4 corners! (Technically he could drive up to 50 mph for 60 miles... ) but that thin line my tires make is all I have to keep me upright... So Dunlop or Michelin will be getting my cash as needed.
1:39 the use of cable ties are ingenious
I've been installling my motorcycle tires this way for about 10 years now. With most of them, I don't even need tire levers anymore. The zip ties are so slick after you get the beads to touch, you can stand on the tire and it just scoots onto the rim.
I have been using Dunlop 185/65/16 car tire since 2006 on my VTX 1800 it took a little getting used too but you run tire pressure depending on the bikes weight I ran 34 PSI and it stuck like glue even in rain and tripled my tire mileage to 40,000 km
🤣
Great video, worth a watch for the tyre changing method alone...wow!
great video and content, as usual, thank you FortNine!
How can people give this video a thumbs down? F9 makes, in my humble opinion, the most entertaining, cool, educational motorcycle vids out there. Keep up the good work.
heiko's garage - I agree, completely! Hell, if you’re not interested then just move on. Ol’ Ryan here ain’t made a duff vid in years!
Yeah, F9 is outstanding, keep going canadian bro !!!!!!
Agree. I would really like to hear from thumbs downers to understand what is wrong? Anyone?
Butt hurt Goldwingers or Harley heads are my guess
I normally like F9 videos and will continue to watch....but just too much incorrect information in this video and an obvious bias. Billions of miles people ride on car tires and didn't show proof of an accident or mishap caused by one. He used the wrong darkside tire with wrong pressure on the wrong bike....That's why I did. I've had numerous bikes and NEVER owned a Harley or a Goldwing...so NO...
I'm wondering what would happen, if you took a sidecar set up such as a Ural, and made it a darkside bike? The main problem with sidecars are that stability is a constant battle. But with your tires doing some of that work for you, would it make things easier?
For sidecar motorcycles definitely you can use it without an issue, you don't need to balance it
The can am spyderrs have auto style tires
They also have three wheels
Great info on the video! One thing I would recommend when inflating a tire on a rim it was not designed for is to put it in a cage or wrap a chain or ratchet strap through the rim and around the tire to contain it should the worst happen. If the tire blows off the rim when seating the bead, it could seriously kill you!😝
What do you think happens when a tire “blows off the bead?” Do you think it’s gonna fly across the building? Really? Do you? Think about what your saying. That tire was just put onto that rim, used some serious force to get it on too. Multiple steps, do you think the air pressure energy is Going to do all those steps, in an instant?
@@shelbystrong3663
Yes Shelby it has happened! My cousin got his jaw broken when a front tractor tire he was inflating blew the rim into his face. NOT a pretty sight.
@@unclehornet5122 I don't think a tractor tire is comparable to fitting a small car tire onto a large motorbike rim.
I used to ride with a group that rode not only Dark but Double Dark, these guys rode heavy motorcycles long distances but I never heard of a crash related to riding Dark Side.
This is one of the best darkside videos I have seen. It’s not arguing for or against but simply putting the information out there. We darksiders will never say that the handling is better than a motorcycle tire and we would put them on our track bikes just that for the riding we do they are perfectly adequate. I went to the darkside on my concours after replacing 4 rear motorcycle tires in one year. It’s not a track day weapon, it’s a touring pig.
These videos just keep being so well made, the explanation sections are just stellar, I wish my university lecturers could make their classes even half as engaging as this content
Deadset.
I'm a university professor and I've used these videos for inspiration on how to improve my teaching. Some professors are really good and some . . . well . . . yeah. Wow. Really?
@@paytonmacdonald You kinda trailed off there, buddy. It's no wonder why your students
Universities in the US are mainly to generate revenues and keep incompetent 'professors' still employed and worse, you have the student shark loans, so in reality, if you want a good education, you have to be rich enough to go to some of the best private universities or study abroad, like in Germany or Canada.
I'm not even a motorcycle fan, but i keep watching these videos for months, just because they're so entertaining, well made and full of small puns!
Damn bro... you're throwing out facts like it's going out of style. I'm just trying to ride and not think about it. Great video.
New your channel. I enjoy watching, very educational. I don't ride and I'm not well at physics's in anyway but you explain things very well
I put a Falken tire designed for the tuner market on my Honda VTX1800 and loved it. It was different from your choice in a couple areas. It has symmetrical tread, reinforced sidewalls, and rounded tread at the edges for better cornering. It did have better life and lower cost as you mention and better load capacity. What you didn’t mention was the better water handling capacity and the much better puncture resistance. I tested the tire with no air in it and it functioned for low speeds. Finally, when I had the second car tire put on the dealership called me and asked permission to cut the first car tire off the rim because it was so tightly fixed to the rim. The downside was low speed turning. You can definitely feel the bike as it transitions from the flat to side tread. I wouldn’t think of it on a sport bike but for a cruiser it was great. One last thing, My wife said the ride on the pillion was much smoother with the car tire. P.S. My original tire was tubeless and the rim geometry was not like what you show in the video.
A friend of mine also fitted his Kawasaki Vulcan with a car tire on the back, and he said it was the best thing ever.
I rode in VTX group and many went dark side.
Even if the wet traction is "good"... I would think taking curves in wet weather (once you're off the flat part of the tread) would be really scary
@@julianbrelsford there are pictures of the contact patch of a car tire vs a motorcycle tire and the car tire actually has move contact area in a turn than a typical motorcycle tire. That is true for the ‘tuner’ marketed car tires that have geometry designed for drifting and high speed cornering. The contact area on a motorcycle tire is actually very small, but consistent no matter the lean amount. As I said in my original post, I would not recommend a car tire on a crotch rocket but for a 700+ pound dry weight cruiser it wasn’t a problem. Also, I added floor boards to both riding positions so the cornering angle was substantially reduced anyway. Even if the traction was equal, I was still comforted by the thick side walls and tread on the tuner tire that allowed the bike to operate with no air in the tire. Also, you can plug a car tire to get you home and that is highly discouraged with the light weight motorcycle tires with very thin tread area.
Just to clarify, contact patch has nothing at all to do with grip, as per Ryan's explanation. It is purely a function of how sticky the rubber is and how much force is being applied to it. The 'tuner' tire example likely has more working tread towards the edge of the tire, making it less sketchy for this use-case, but still sketchy considering how the car tire will always want to 'upright' itself after a few degrees of lean.
7:37 Civic bois have left the chat
Lmao
Your amount of knowledge is astonishing
That was one fine video. Loved the kickstand idea.
0:35 sooo that's what the side stand is for
It’s for quick temporary parking, but that was clever
Approved by the Tyre and Rim Association.
that was quite a nice trick
1:46 that was actually his trap phone
I owned a Boss Hoss for a short time which used a wide car tire (on a car rim) at the rear. I didn't keep it long enough to get comfortable with the contact patch constantly moving left and right 10 inches when riding reasonably straight.
I guess traction ist just fine when not in a curve... But I love to see this experiment. Great job.
Its funny, i was just researching and watching videos about darksiding, and i noticed most of the users are cruiser riders. Really heavy bikes, without big lean angles. No suprise and your post confirms a lot for me
I own a street glide and some people recommend putting a car tyre on the back wheel . I can understand the cost part and mileage but if things go wrong your insurance is invalid ,you won’t get a MOT in the uk and the police will get involved. Personally I wouldn’t do it or recommend it either too many downsides.
@@johnludmon7419 In the US, at least, there is no such exclusion in a MC policy. And you are correct, my observation is many darksiders are cruisers and goldwing tourers who do not use the handling characteristics of a motorcycle.
I have two bikes darksided. Honda nc700x and triumph tiger 1200. It's amazing. I drive it like I stole it. It takes a few hundred miles to get use to. Once you do, you ride exactly the same. I have over 12 thousand miles on each tire. And. It's much better in the rain. I hope this helps. Try it you'll never go back.
Jim Gordon Not in the UK the bike would be illegal to use on the road. As I said in my post it would invalidate my insurance which would complicate things if I had an accident.
@@johnludmon7419 you should move. It's always raining there anyway. 😉
Having been an auto mechanic back when the 16.5" truck tire was a thing, the darksiders lost me at "incompatible bead".. but as you said so well, let it go!
Discovered this video by accident a year ago. I have never thought about riding a motorcycle but I discovered fort nine and next week I start my motorcycle training :)
And he selects an asymmetric tread design. Perfecto.
Ryan: SCIENCE!!
Also Ryan: F*#$!!
🤣🤘
Well he's no Grant Thompson right? #RIP
Pneumatic tires, such as those on a motorcycle, Do NOT behave as classical dry friction theory would suggest. Rubber generates friction in three major ways: a) Adhesion, b) Mechanical keying, and c) Wear
Furthermore pneumatic tires are sensitive to load, as they are loaded up the coefficient of friction decreases.
Reference:
The Racing & High performance tire, Paul Haney, 2003
Or wiki, if you guys don’t want to buy the book above.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_load_sensitivity
Now I read that wiki page, and I have my B.ME working on my M.ME I know the other kinda forces.
All this says is that it's not a component vector of dry friction but instead Coulomb's friction.
This just means motorcycle tires get more grip in a turn since their sliding factor is more.
Right the dry equation is simplified but is good enough. You do have only so much grip to go around, and the advantages of motorcycle tires is that you don't fight the tire in a turn, where as a car tire you do. You don't get enough grip back out of Coulomb's friction to make up that deficiency.
Sure for F1 it's a serious concern and that's why we slightly camber those tires.
Okay i want to reply to myself now beacsue this comment made me very interested in that the actual formula is.
Sources for info:
www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:692173/FULLTEXT01.pdf
www.hindawi.com/journals/at/2016/4858317/
www.researchgate.net/publication/256734792_Applicability_of_the_macro-scale_elastic_contact_theories_for_the_prediction_of_nano-scaled_particle_collision_with_a_rigid_flat_surface_under_non-adhesive_and_weakly-adhesive_conditions
arxiv.org/pdf/1007.2713.pdf
I have access to these journals, if you need access to contact me and i'll copy it for you.
This shit is interesting and i kinda wish i did my masters in this instead
The tires being pneumatic vs solid has nothing to do with it. It is because a soft material (like rubber) on an abrasive surface (like pavement) has a coefficient of of friction that is itself a function of normal force. The equation ends up looking like F=z*N^s where 's' is usually around 0.95, but must be measured experimentally.
I absolutely love seeing a CZcams comment debate with citations in place of curses, I'm glad to see fortnine cultivates a very friendly, non-toxic community
Besides the coefficient of friction of the rubber, there is the coefficient of friction of the pavement. In effect it is a combined coefficient of friction - of that tire rubber on that particular pavement. And oh yes, pavement friction varies depending on the aggregates it is made of and any polishing that takes place over time.
this video has forever changed how i swap tires and it only took 2 minutes
Amazing content, amazing filming , amazing thoughts organizing, amazing editing
Yeah, Too bad he is way off base. Way _way_ off.
I ran a GL1200 Goldwing with a side car and a car rear tire mounted perfectly. It ran great and I highly recommend it for sidecar applications. I tried it with the sidecar taken off the bike. On the highway I got in an absolutely terrifying tank slapper that is singularly the most frightening riding event of my 50 years of riding. I don't know how I did it (thank you guardian angels!) but I controlled it from a side to side, to the stops, tank slapper at 80mph (I know, I was pushing my luck). I sat on the grass at the side of the road for half an hour to get the adrenaline and heart rate down. I thankfully learned my lesson without loosing my life.
Maybe car tire applications on moto are for heavy weight moto, also tubeless tire is the way to stop Tire re-T900-coming-back to original form and fighting itself
Darksiders chiming in. When the 1800 Wings came out, tire life of less than 10k was common, even 7k wasn't unheard of. Early on there were issues with tires delaminating due to underinflation and overloading. I was going through 2 rears and 1 front every year.
I spent several days investigating everything I could find about darksiding. After all that and personal experience, this is what I concluded. The following link is my video with a camera under the bike. czcams.com/video/qoNDo7o1d6Q/video.html
Not every tire works. Some designs work better than others. In my opinion, run flat tires are a must. The sidewall wraps around the rim and locks it in so we'll, that installation and removal is a bear. The rim profile mismatch is a fact, but the runflat sidewall locks onto the rim so hard, that I have to plan as much as 2 hours to change the tire when it's already off the bike.
Handling is greatly effected by tire pressure. To high, and the tire doesn't flex enough. I run 25 psi cold and 30 two up, 34 fully loaded pulling a camper.
Handling is different, but it's no problem to throw the bike around in the curves. The front tire effects the initial counter steering into a lean. When initiating a turn, I feel the front take the lead setting up for the banking turn. Once banked over, the bike will maintain it's lean angle. Even using cruise control in a curve, I can remove my hands from the bars and it maintains the bank.
Off road traction is fantastic. I love riding dirt roads and trails. My current tire is a snow tire. I managed to drop my rear tire into a hole at a campground that the belly pan was on the ground while I had a trailer attached. The back tire climbed right out of the hole.
I tested the run flat capability by removing the valve stem core and riding with zero air pressure. Normal riding was unaffected, while banking over just made the bike feel heavy.
I was rear ended while having the car tire on. Progressive didn't care and even payed for a replacement car tire.
Is darksiding for everybody, no. When properly installed and balanced ( I balance to + or - 1 gram ), using a tire pressure monitor ( you could get a flat and not know it ) and common sense, Darksiding works great. It's not something to just jump into.
I respect the people who make CZcams videos explaining the science of why it's not advisable. I understand the science, but I know how it works for me. As long as I'm riding my GL1800, it will never see a motorcycle tire on the back.
Anytime we make modifications to our motorcycles, we have to accept that it's our responsibility for anything that might happen. I choose to run a car tire, and it's on me if anything ever went wrong.
Well written. In this case he installed a car tire on the wrong type of bike, rode it in the wrong kind of conditions and claimed it was wrong to do. I know of many people who have run dark side on their bikes for many years with no problems. I'm not sure why he is against it except, perhaps, he sells bike tires?
AGREED I HAVE HAD GOOD RESULTS WITH CAR TIRES AND I NOW HAVE THEM ON 3 ......BIKES EVEN A BIG SCOOTER.
@@davemeise2192
Why are you so buthurt and emotional?
Wrong bike? Wrong conditions? Are you high? If you want to prove or disprove something you need to take it to the limit, that is the point of testing something, to put it in adverse conditions.
And if anything he made unbiased and reasonable argument, he made a solid case FOR going to the dark side if anything.
Ok
@@davemeise2192 He didn't say it is wrong to do so.
He said you're lacking the built in saftety of the bumps locking the tire in, and because of this the tire COULD unseat itself.
And then proceeded to tell you it's your own risk, without giving numbers as to how often this happens.
And in doing so, he is 100% right. It does lack the safety features, and it COULD happen. You might go a 100 tires without it happening, and good for you.
But he has to say this in order to make sure you understand how it works, and that it's your own risk.
If he tells everybody to do it without fear and a tire does go wrong, he gets the blame. Simple.
Great video as always ! Thank you FortNine.
So, question is, what fits your needs? If you are a fun rider and like on the weekends to hunt curves, dark siding is not really a good choice. But if you are a practical rider who puts a lot of miles in daily commuting on the odometer, it’s worth a thought.
I don’t how I haven’t seen this baby-faced scienctician before, but this single video garners an instant sub from me.
You’re use of vernacular, and willingness to challenge ‘the norm’ are excellent. I look forward to perusing more of your videos!
ivymike83 he's the greatest youtuber in existence
welcome to the best MC channel on CZcams
@@martin72345 fort9 is great. Go check out some of his videos on chain lube
r/IamVerySmart
He looks like Conan O'Brien's love child
On a cruiser in Texas- Maybe. On twisty roads in Europe - Nope.
Thanks for the clip. Explains a lot of things I was wondering.
HA, HA, HA, THAT LOOKED SUPER SKETCKY the look on your face when the tyre seated. Priceless