Sosabowski and the Polish path to Arnhem
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- čas přidán 19. 09. 2021
- Part of Arnhem Week on WW2TV
Sosabowski and the Polish path to Arnhem
With Jenny Grant
More Operation Market Garden and Arnhem content on WW2TV
• Operation Market Garde...
More Airborne Forces content on WW2TV
• Airborne Forces
Jenny Grant @SilenceInPolish joins us once again, this time to talk about General Sosabowski. We will look at his life and career and his misgivings about Operation Market Garden.
Other Shows you may enjoy:
The Career of Stanisław Maczek of the 1st Polish Armoured Division • Stanisław Maczek of th...
No. 6 (Polish) Troop No. 10 (Inter-Allied) Commando • No. 6 (Polish) Troop N...
The Human Tragedy of A Bridge Too Far • Arnhem - The Human Tra...
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@@thevillaaston7811 I reply to as many as I can
Just catching up with this now. How shamefully Sosabowski was treated, and I can't feel any sadder about the way my Country treated Poland. I think the Polish community are highly valued here in the UK now but of course it probably wasn't the same back then. I don't think anyone now doubts the bravery or excellence of Polish troops fighting in the west. Hopefully the current perception goes a little way to restoring relations, but I can't apologise for the way we treated them enough.
Hi Guys. Polish perspective here ;)
Just imagine having your own country non-existent for 123 years ! Please note that it is not only not having your country on the world map. It means you can't teach and use polish language, you can't teach history, culture. If you do then you are sent to Syberia Gulags...ON FOOT !!! in shackles (that how Piłsudski was sent there). There was no railroad back then. Then You gain your independence in 1919. And one year later you need to fight for your freedom AGAIN with bolshevics. After that you have only 20 years of freedom. And you have another 5 years of horror. And then 50 years of communism.
That's why he rejected English citizenship and other things along the way. Another fact. When he jumped our of the plane over Arnhem he was 54 years old ! Just imagine! Unbelievable
WW2TV beautiful work. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
note that this is a narrative- but in order to understand the world you need to understand narratives and myths from other places
Jenny gave an outstanding presentation. The Polish contributions to the victory over the Nazis needs more attention. I am glad that WW2TV makes it a priority to share lesser known parts of World War 2.
over Germans. There wasnt such a country like nazi. Oficial name of Germans state in this period was "Great GERMAN REICH". Nazi is a term created to separate Germans from genocide which they ve commited and was created by RFN after world war 2 and as You can see, it works quite good. Now noobody speaks about Germans. And Its pissed me off as a Pole. Poland lost 6 milion people in this war and They were not killed by nazi only by Germans. And we are stubborn people and we will always remember who started this war. For sure not nazi. Only Germans.
GERMAN III. Reich
My Grandfather served directly under Sosabowski. He was there at Arnhem. He remained good friends with him and visited him many time after the war.
This was a terrific show. No matter how much we think we know about the Poles being marginalized and even sacrificed in this and other battles, there is always something new to learn. The brazen way by which Sosabowski was scapegoated for the failure of Market-Garden is saddening. The discussion around the points Paul and Jenny made about 'betrayal' was 100% on point.
But Browning was got rid of out of First Allied Airborne Army before Sosabowski was. Sosabowski wasn't scapegoated. Neither Montgomery or Browning ever said Market Garden failed because of Sosabowski.
And the Poles weren't sacrificed. Over ten times as many British troops died in this battle than Poles. Polish fatalities were less than 100 compared to nearly 1,400 British.
Excellent stuff. Glad that the Poles are being talked about. I live near Stamford, so the Poles have a special place with me.
3 Polish pilots and 93 members of the brigade were killed in the Battle of Arnhem. I have a book called All Men Are Brothers which details them all by Andries Hoekstra, superb stuff.
Another brilliant show that I have only just now seen. I don't think I'm the only one who has seen the Polish experience in MG as a tragedy within a tragedy, but it is wonderful to get this kind of context for that iconic WWII battle. And though this doesn't have a direct connection to this discussion, I well remember a talk I heard many years ago that maybe sort of has a place here. In 2014 we went on a 70th anniversary of D-Day tour with the WWII Museum here in America. It was a sensational tour anchored by the presence of three truly wonderful historians and authors, Rick Atkinson, Don Miller, and Rob Citino. Each night after dinner aboard our cruise ship we were treated to a discussion led by either one of those three, or sometimes a discussion in the round. Questions from the audience were welcomed and one night someone asked a particularly interesting if not a little bot loaded, question. The group was asked which of the Allied nations supplied the most effective fighting soldiers. There was a distinct pause as none of the guys seemed anxious to grab that hot potato. Yes, it would be interesting to give an answer, but you could nearly smell the hesitancy as none wanted to diminish the contributions of others by naming a group they thought might occupy the top of the heap. I will not reveal which spoke up first, I'd rather let that person speak for himself. But when one of them finally spoke up he merely said, "I'd always take the Poles". And certainly the other two quickly agreed that the Poles, without question, were an amazing force to reckon with.
From what I've read, 2nd Lt. Richard Tice joined the Polish Paratroopers because he knew the history of how Poles helped the Americans during the Revolution and wanted to help them. Tice joined the US Army in 1940, but after some time was discharged when it was discovered he had a punctured eardrum. In spite of being born in Newton, NJ, he got the nickname "The Cowboy" from the Poles because of his accuracy in firing a pistol from the hip.
thank You everybody,thats very kind of You to make this video ,this is quite extraordinary( because english historiography always tries to diminish or to live unsaid the influence of Poles on course of WW2 , purposely or not)
, God bless You for your justice ,sensitivity and for your , for me already proverbial, reliability to remind this true story and to attach appropriate importance to it. greetings from Poland
And Poles like to ignore that the "English" went to war against Nazi Germany when Poland was invaded.
I don't think anyone in Britain thinks that the Polish were anything but extremely good and brave soldiers. Everyone who studies Market Garden holds the Poles in very high esteem.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Hahah how? By dropping leaflets...Stop it. Get some help
@@lyndoncmp5751 It's sad what you say. You declared war on Germany and that was the end! If Great Britain, France, Belgium and the Netherlands had opened a second front in September 1939, the war would have ended in 1940 at the latest. The war would not have resulted in several dozen million victims and hundreds of billions of dollars in material losses. Think about it...
@@bizi7146
Blame Germany, not Britain. Britain had a small army in 1939 and it takes a long time to mobilise a large army and send it overseas.
Direct your ire at France, Belgium etc.
Jenny is a fantastic presenter. Her knowledge of her subject is first rate & her enthusiasm is infectious. I would watch any WW2TV episode with her in it. Something from Jenny about the escape routes from Poland to the West, particular via Siberia (seems a long way round) would be enlightening and appreciated.
I finally had the time to enjoy this informative livestream. I too only learned about the Polish Brigade while reading Cornelius Ryan's "A Bridge too Far" after watching the film. I have read General Urquhart's book "Arnhem" some years ago that does mention the Poles, but really doesn't expound a great deal. I looked up the information on their casualties during Market Garden and found this on Wikipedia: "On 26 September 1944, the Brigade (now including the 1st Battalion and elements of the 3rd Battalion, who were parachuted near to Grave on 23 September) was ordered to march towards Nijmegen. The Brigade had lost 25% of its fighting strength, amounting to 590 casualties." I hope this is helpful to anyone interested. Ms. Grant is to be commended for a job well done. Her knowledge and passion for the subject comes through brilliantly.
Amazing fellow he was in his fifties when he parachuted in!
Very good episode, thank you.
I'm very glad to have had your channel come to my attention so early. It's a great venture and you're off to a great start. I hope that more of your natural audience finds you soon. 🖖
Well thank you, although we are 300 shows and 18 months into the channel already. But I'm glad you've found us
Great show, great presenters Paul and Jenny
Poles who manned anti-tank guns landed in gliders with the British Airlanding Brigade on the first two days. However, not all of the gun crews landed. The rest of the crews were supposed to parachute in, but as we know, that didn't happen until days later and on the other side of the river. Poles that made it across the river manned defensive position in the Oosterbeek pocket along side the British. When the Oosterbeek pocket intentionally collapsed in order to escape across the river, the British left first telling the Poles that they would send someone to get them. Of course that didn't happen. The Poles were sacrificed to the Germans, who executed many that were left behind.
Sad.
@@HydroSnips I didn't say all of the Poles were killed. See "Poles Apart, The Polish Airborne at the Battle of Arnhem" by George F. Cholewczynski, page 259.
"As the British units from around 8th Company's positions, a Royal Engineers major gave orders for Lieutenant Smaczny to hold his positions and cover the evacuation. Smaczny was told that his company would withdraw at 0030 hours - but only on orders to be brought by a runner. Smaczny the requested that the major take one of his men with him, so that the 8th Company could be sure that someone would come for them. The British officer replied that was unnecessary, that he would come himself if he could not find anybody else to do so."
Smaczny was not happy about this. To him, the order in such a situation was "a virtual sentence of extermination.""
Page 264:
"The Red Devils passing the 8th Company's positions became fewer and fewer. Lieutenant Smaczny still waited for the runner who would bring him word to join the evacuation. Some of the passing British asked the Poles sitting in their holes, Why don't you leave"? Smaczny was relieved when his men ignored the suggestions."
Page 265:
"It was late, already past midnight, the the soldiers of the 8th Company were becoming apprehensive. An hour had gone by and no more British soldiers were moving past the Transvalia en route to the river. Still there was no sign of the runner."
Smaczny sent a Lance Corporal to a British battalion command post and he found it deserted except for two medical orderlies and some wounded. The medics told the corporal that the British troops in the area had left more than two hours before.
You are aware that nearly TEN TIMES as many British troops died in Market Garden than Polish troops? Sacrificed? Don't be ridiculous.
A tremendous education by Ms. Grant in her comprehensive and fascinating account.
Not surprisingly modern day Polish Army paratroops keep up the traditions of Gen. Sosabowski and his men.
Great presentation highlighting the great and pressing need for more studies into the Polish contribution to the war.
Working my way through your back catalogue. That was really illuminating. What a great guest.
Brilliant stuff !!!!
thank you for this video!
You're so welcome!
23:03 there was some british gas preparedness stuff too
good job!
15:51 the Związek Strzelecki technically wasn't underground, it was legal by statute under A-H law as a rifle association (however, it was linked to clandestine politics etc.)
Fantastic show! I would love to know where I may find a copy of General Sisabowski's book.
Thank you both!
There are copies available online
a part of brigade landed ony near the Britts but at the other side of the river ( about _900 men) and Germans mobilised hastily each available man! to block them (about 2000 3000?men and heavy equipment)-little thing but enjoys
39:07 other compelxities- the prospect for soviet actions- another opinion was the uprising was inevitable, starting with the 29th of July especially, the feeling of dissent among the population, forced mobilization to build fortifications, a fale alarm
Batalion "Parasol" of the Home Army in the Warsaw Uprising was named by implication by connection to the warsaw uprising
1:45 perhaps for the polish military- except in the sense it required a great deal of effort
Montgomery wrote to CIGS and reported that the Poles "fought very badly and the men showed no keenness to fight", and he declared that he did not want them under his command and suggested they be sent to join other Poles in Italy. Who told Monty that the Poles fought badly?
Who knows? It can't have been Browning. In his detailed appraisal of the battle, Browning didn't mention any poor performance of the Poles at all. In fact Browning specifically cited the non arrival of the 325th Glider Infantry Regiment (of the 82nd Airborne) on the 19th as being the single most crucial reason for the failure. Then he mentioned the German stubbornness, the weather and lack of proper planning time. Nothing about the performance of the Polish troops, even though he disliked Sosabowski.
@annaelliot216 "What happened 10 days later?" - Politics ?
@@lyndoncmp5751 thsts funny ,Browning had a lot of good things to say about the 82 nd and 101stfor their gallant fighting during market garden
@@lyndoncmp5751 30 corps refused to move after the 82nd cross the northern waal..they were actually urged to roll into arnhem with 82nd but they sat there and waited too long
What is your the title of the book that he wrote?
Freely I Served
25:14 there wasn't any combat in Czechoslovakia though
There weren't really many examples of people who didn't face fighting in Poland, because the country was totally overrun - there were a few who were captured very quickly
26:19 I mean that was almost all polish forces etc.
Perhaps you should do your own video on the subject? You are finding fault every 30 seconds with this one
It was more so the idea of 'service to the nation' or sth like that - there was a sort of combination of anti-state and this other type of feeling
How were the government in exile and military forces financed?
That's one for Jenny to answer, but it's quite complicated
Totally disgusting the way the UK treated him.
1:00 I don't like the implication that the poles were 'at the mercy' of the british in terms of it being a question of grace- as if it is not more so ademand
Also, to fight in an effective, organized and disciplined way they didn't need to see this that way- they could just have their own thing- this implies that they would need something special
As Arkady Fiedler said, they saw them as fighting along with the hope of the world, they saw their cause that their fighting for as being an universal goal or principle - they weren't some 'tribe' that needed to be appeased to fight for the cause with the 'civilized' people- the idea that it is the Poles need to be 'together' with others, they had their own sense of indefatigable universal values, that they had to fight for just to get the opportunity to fight, they were motivated
3:55 in some sense air forces
of Lwów/L'viv not Łódź and to be clear (though it happens the latter is also true), it was in Poland at the time.
1:00 that is very patronizing wording; the point is for each force to feel as if it is in a wider force with each other and the others
2:57 yeah, over and above the civillian representation
Her presentation annoyed me. She’s a proper historian but not a great orator.
Well, lots of people love what Jenny does
Yawn.
What a constructive remark
@@WW2TV It took him a week to think up that comment
Sosabowski was blamed by the British for the failure of the operation at Arnhem. even though he was the only commander to point out the weakness of the operation plan.
After the war, he was deprived of his citizenship. Britain denied him the right to veterans' benefits. He had to work as a warehouseman until he was old because he was also denied the right to a pension. This is the gratitude of the British, which we Poles will not forget.
Yep, we address all that in the video - maybe you didn't realise, but Jenny is half Polish