REACHING THE END! 🔥Wheel Of Time Episode 8 REVIEW 🔥
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- čas přidán 13. 10. 2023
- My thoughts on episode 7 of #thewheeloftime
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My biggest complaint of this series has been the choice to take away all of Rand's moments and give them away. We've been told Rand is the Dragon Reborn, but we haven't seen him do anything that makes us understand what that is. All that has happened so far is he has held up a flashlight, and slow walked up to Ishy and stabbed him with his sword. Taking away Rand's moments takes away all meaning of him being the Dragon Reborn. Right now it's an empty title in a show designed to show how awesome Moraine and Egwene are.
Yes, TGH has a lot of growth for Rand when they are separated from Ingtar et al. He learns a lot about leadership, responsibility and decision making. The show ballsed this up by not having a hunt for the horn.
“The Moiraine proclaiming the dragon” scene was so stupid that it practically ruined all the good they had done for the whole season. They visually communicated that Mairaine is more powerful than any other channeler we have seen just because it’s clear that they have a main character and it’s not Rand.
To be honest, that's mostly what happens in the books as well.
His biggest moments in book 2 would be:
- fight with Turok, which could have been a great moment to display that Rand is a blademaster as well, but what they did in the show was great as well, just tearing through using Power;
- fight against Betrayer/Ishmael that gives him the wound and first mark.
His moment of "I am the Dragon Reborn" only kinda happens in book 3, when he goes to Tear, and then in a really big way in book in the Aiel Wastes. Before those two moments he doesn't even really accept who he is.
The show issue is that 8 episodes is not enough for the pace of story they want to do, everything felt rushed this last episode. They should increase the episode count to 10, give more moments for characters to breathe, and allow the world to build upon itself. What they are doing hurts the quality.
@@tiagomagalhaes7032 I fully agree with you that the show needs more time, I would love a 10 or 12 episode season. Rand does struggle to accept himself as the Dragon Reborn until the end of book 3, but he has moments of great power along the way. His fight at the Eye of the World is so much more impressive in the books, but they gave that impressive scene to Egwene, Nyneave, and a White Tower cast off (not to mention everything else wrong with that show scene). Rand literally holds up a terangreal and it lights up, that is all he does in the show, instead of doing anything semi impressive like holding back the forces at Tarwins Gap. The blade master scene in the show would have been unearned, but that's the writers fault for skipping his training with Lan. Killing Turac with the power daggers was kind of cool, but made that whole interaction feel rushed. The fight in the sky with Ishy was so much more epic in the books, showed how much Rand was willing to sacrifice, and was a massive display of power that caused his image to circulate around the world and people draw sketches of it proclaiming him Dragon. Instead Egwene held back Ishy singlehandedly, we got Moraine performing feats of power that are ridiculous when you think about what she actually did, a lame Avengers assemble moment of Perrin with his magic shield, and Rand literally stabbing Ishy with no resistance by making his sword glow. So far all that can be said about Rand is he is the king of the nightlights, but he has done nothing that shows any degree of significant power. Rafe already said season 2 was a combination of Book 2 and 3 so at this point Rand should accept he is the Dragon Reborn, but what does that mean if all you can do is make things glow, accidentally start fires, and randomly shoot power daggers similar to what Suan did? I'm asking for something to happen that makes it clear that Rand is a force and the most powerful channeler of this age. As much as this is an ensemble story, at it's core it is Rand's story, and it doesn't feel that way if you watch the show.
It’s Amazon, they take big moments from Rand and give them to the women
The 8 episode season has been negatively impacting other adaptations and shows in general now.
Especially if a studio is going to spend a billion dollars on a show. You spend that much, do it right.
@@kirstencorby8465 And if you spend it on a particular story.... maybe tell that story.
Ehh, they writers can't keep focused on a single episode let alone a season
Shadow and Bone comes to mind
There is a very hard balance to make with adaptations.
On one hand you have to keep book fans happy, and book fans are not happy with anything less than the full delivery of lore and plot from the books. Doing so requires 30+ episodes each season with each episode devoted to a chapter from a book.
The other hand, you have an audience that has no idea about existing lore and plot and want to be entertained with episodes filled with excitement and information, and really don't want bloated episodes focussing on at most one or two characters at a time. They want excitement.
The other problem is that series have budgets, even on platforms like Amazon, Netflix and Apple. You can't afford to spend what is required to make both book fans and newcomers happy. So you have to pick and choose how to keep both interested.
No TV show or Movie budget will ever come close to your own imagination on how a show will play out, it will need billions per episode to do se. Treat it as a different multi-verse that has the same backstory. You will never be happy with any book to screen adaptation. Even the greatest adaptation of all time of Peter Jackson's LOTR was shot down by the Tolkien trust, they hated it, vehemently despised it.
You will never like an adaptation from book to television/movie, nobody ever will. Just be happy that a series you loved is now being loved by others.
Nyneave used to have a compelling arc, like the first half of the season, then Elyane took an arrow in the knee
Ok that made me laugh.
I agree, they really kinda flubbed that whole arc.
bahahaha
Why does it have to be a strictly one season arch? Some wrapped up in the finale, some hit their mid-point, and some started.
Nynaeve has now experienced how much her block can cost those she loves. In other scenes she's been able to bust out the power when most needed, but not this time. This is what she carries with her into season three.
Clever 😂
Next thing you know, someone's gonna steal their sweet roll
The arrow issue that bothered me the most.. she shoved the arrow through her leg without snapping off the fletching first
didnt bind it to prevent bleeding and infection, didnt use her non magical healing skills, didnt try to find cover before working on the arrow to prevent intercepting 10 or 20 more arrows since apparently there was just one archer and he/she only had 2 arrows.
A lot ridiculous stuff bothered me, but I think Moiraine manipulating prophecy to me was the worst. One of her lines in the books is "Prophecies are fulfilled as they are meant to be, not as WE think they should be". If Aes Sedai can easily just "fulfill" and manipulate prophecy as they see fit, it completely undermines the whole point of prophecy. And if they can do it that easily, you'd better believe Aes Sedai would have done it 100x over throughout the years. Even Siuan brought up the Tower's policy for what to do with the Dragon. To chain him and use them how THEY want, WHEN they want, on THEIR terms. So why wouldn't they take someone like Egwene (since they established the Dragon could be a woman), brand her with heron marks, channel a dragon around her, and proclaim her the Dragon Reborn. Just keep Rand chained up until the last battle.
The whole point of prophecy is it happens naturally, unintentionally, and is typically a sign before the eyes of many where no doubt could be had. That's why the battle in the sky at Falme was so important. It was the "shooting star" nobody could deny. The scene so vivid and detailed that there could be no denying it was Rand. In the show? Pfft, nobody knew what happened on that tower but the people that were there. All the people see is a fiery dragon and a figure they can't make out. They could have done that any time with any figure lol.
I think that wasn't a mistake. I think it was intentional. this whole ep showed she failed. she failed as a channeler, as a wisdom, as a mentor, as a friend etc. setting up for her comeback and building her back up to be who she is in the books
what bothered me the most and was most jarring is how valda tries to hard to capture/kill perrin but then when the wolf dies valda just walks out off screen with no explanation whatsoever when perrin was laying on the ground literally waiting for valda to get him lmao
@@olorin3815 that one actually makes sense. They set up on the show how Valda was traumatized by the wolves (a joke from Dain, I think) and when a wolf shows up out of the blue, he runs away as soon as he can. He doesn't know there aren't more wolves coming.
My main problem with both finales is that they take away so many of Rand's epic moments, his displays of the Dragon's power. First he doesn't get to destroy the Trolloc army at Tarwin's Gap (and kill 2 Forsaken on the way), then he doesn't get his battle with Ishamael (also the way his sword very clearly isn't in anything when he first stabs Ishy annoys me for some reason haha). He's the Dragon Reborn but he hasn't really _done_ anything yet...
Also Nynaeve never really did anything. A much better creative choice would be her seeing Egwene unconscious and Ishy about to kill Rand, she gets angry and _she's_ the one that throws up the shield. Egwene is strong and a badass, and I've loved her character, but Nynaeve is leagues stronger in the One Power, and this would've fixed 2 or 3 of the big issues I had
True, that woul also have left the Elayne-Rand scene. I think the girls should have linked against Ishy. More believable than a terangreal sheild that wasn't in the books for Perrim
Rand needs to share with the women. I mean, it's not like the books were highly progressive and gave the women their own moments or something /sarcasm. Give all the spotlight to them and Daniel Greene will make sure to polish Rafe's staff.
I agree that nyn would have been the better choice for the shield.
I haven't seen the episode yet, but they definitely could have cut out a lot of the elayne-nyn walking stuff to add in an actual battle between the group and ish.
Like, show how the group together works to overcome ish, not just have him kinda give up. You cab still have him be resigned to his fate once it is obvious that he's been beaten, but to just have him throw some fire and stone around and then give up because they're all together seems...weird.
Showcase the forms that rand had been practicing, allow perrin matt to distract ish by using hit and run tactics. Have the women launching attacks with the power that keep ish from his straight up obliterating the men.
There could have been a truly epic battle scene that actually showcased the whole power of friendship idea, but it looks, from everything I've seen so far, the the route they chose just falls flat.
If the show made Rand the "Dragon Reborn instead of the "Salamander Reborn", then it would take away the gurl power!!! :-)
@@Dooger414huh? Nyneave fight mog? Moiraine saving Rand from lanfear. Nyneave helping cleanse Saidin? Nyneave healing madness and stilling/gentleing? Elayne rediscovering the creation of angreal. Min helping Rand form his plan for sealing the dark one? Nyneave and moiraine being instrumental to the sealing and defeat of the Dark One. Egwene becoming the amirlym seat, saving the White Tower and countering balefire at the Last battle? Elayne leading armies at the Last Battle? I'm sorry, if I planned to list them all I would be here all day. I have 0 clue what you are talking about, you clearly didn't read the books
I really disliked Egwene freeing herself. It doesn't work thematically. It doesn't work metaphysically + lowers the stakes of the a'dam. It makes Nynaeve's and Elayne's arc in the second half of the season pointless. All that sacrificed for another "cool moment". Seeing the show constantly sell out its future for quick "cool moments" is so tiresome. We end another season on a low-note.
Egwene has PLENTY of bad-ass moments that _doesn't_ mess with the whole structure of the story and its themes. Other than expedience, there was no need for this.
It’s also laughable that Egwene freeing herself could be considered a ‘cool moment’ in comparison with Rand vs Turak and Rand vs Ishamael, both of which they cut for no reason and replaced with stupidity.
Poor Ryma. That brilliant scene and sacrificing her and Basan was for absolutely nothing.
I also found it weird that they took away Rands battle with Ishamael and gave it to Egwene (though it was just her blocking all of Ishamaels very unimaginative attacks). It messes with one of the most important events in the story that literally reverbarates through the enitre continent. It´s as you say, Egwene has plenty of great moments in the story, there was no need to take away one of Rands most important ones.
It's because Rafe is an Egwene simp and is actively pushing his own fantasy take, which makes his girl the primary character who gets all the glory.
Unfortunately he doesn't have the talent to do it in a way that makes any of it feel earned or believable, nor can he juggle his own biases with ensuring an even approach to other characters' development or arcs.
The show should be retitled: Egwene - mother of Dragons 🙄
it also contradicts the whole "you can't do it alone" theme they have with rand. it's fine in egwene's case for her to have individual badass moments, even if it's breaking the rules of the magic system and coming at the cost of nynaeve/elayne's plot. but rand HAS to be nerfed and have his individual moments removed for the sake of an ensemble cast.
I will not stop saying this, but I don't agree that adding more episodes is a solution. This show struggled with pacing and unnecessary padding (of non-cannon plotlines mind you) that detracted from our main characters' progression and did a disservice to the depiction of important character arcs.
Some examples: Ironically the character that is the mascot of the show (and not the books) Moiraine became a more impetuous character with a lot of dithering as the episodes went on, with a character arc that looped back to her default persona by the finale. Lan was a blithering fool who wasted episode run time pissing, brooding, and pining for an Aes Sedai who didn't even trust him. Nynaeve had potential with her White Tower storylines, but then for plot reasons couldn't muster her healing ability when it counted most in the finale for Rand and Elayne. Egwene's capture was depicted well until it was not. Suddenly the threat of the adam collar, a device that led to her severe PTSD and trust issues in the books, means nothing against Super Eggy. She is a nigh invulnerable novice Aes Sedai who can defy all capture, hold off Forsaken, and invalidates help from her friends. Rand had limited agency throughout the show, with all his decisions apparently shepherded by Moiraine and Lanfear, and had no journey. Despite that fact he was able to use intricate weaves to kill Turak and Seanchan soldiers with ease with no explanation. In The Great Hunt he was also guided by Moiraine and Lanfear, but the difference was the individual moments and decisions he perpetuated that led to his growth. He learned poise and swordsmanship from Lan and his journey, leadership in guiding a small party, and when to sacrifice and let go to succeed in his battle with Ishamael. There are so many characters, such as Perrin, Aviendha, Padan Fain, and Loial, that had little to no engaging material to work with, to the point where I was questioning why some of them were featured in this season to begin with.
Great writers thrive with constraints, most recently with One Piece. In 8 episodes (with smaller episode average run time than WOT) they managed to pack in 100 chapters of content, depict complete character arcs, and successfully build comradery among the main cast. If you look back 20 years ago, Peter Jackson successfully covered three Lord of the Rings books in 10 hours of total run time, all the while fleshing out the world and characters. Even with more episodes, I wouldn't have trusted the showrunners to adapt meaningful plotlines and themes from the books.
I agree with pretty much all of this. Though, I will say the show could use another two episodes. If Game of Thrones could be as great as it (mostly) was with ~10 hrs/season, that should indicate a sweet spot of sorts for other fantasy shows.
@@thu6muff1n Provided you can trust the writers to develop character arcs and build them towards a well planned finale I would agree that 10-12 episodes is a good sweet spot. More episodes is always great to flesh out scenes, build plotlines towards future character arcs in later seasons, and spend time with characters. Do I trust the writers, directors, and showrunners to make good use of that time? Nope. It's a shame too, because the main cast of this series is great, and there are some people involved in production that you can tell are passionate about making this a great series. It's just unfortunate that they have a showrunner like Rafe who doesn't trust the source material and wants to craft the IP into one of his own making. It's honestly disgusting.
Agree, agree, agree. Yes they deserve 10 episodes, but they waste 2 of the 8 they get each season so…
They will just screw up 10 episodes instead of 8,the problem is writing and the showrunner....😢
More episodes = more Maksim
That moment when all those soldiers inexplicably showed up on the beach to fight Lan and give him something to do for a big finale movement actually had me rofl, I feel like that's when the episode totally broke for me. And I say this as someone who loves the books, hated S1, and had been so pleasantly surprised with S2 thus far. I enjoyed it and looked forward to it every week.
I love how all the characters just show up and toddle their way behind a limited shield that clearly doesnt extend that far and Ishy doesn't just gank them as they snail crawl over
Well to be fair in the books the Forsaken and especially Ishamael could have easily killed Rand and co in the first 1.75 books. Only reason he doesn’t is because he wants to convert Rand to the Shadow
@@DustyMoth. Ishamael's power is also canonically limited until his reincarnation, due to him being half trapped for the entirety of the age
@@mortuitissedai2085 do u think we will get mori**n?
@@xyr3s Probably not, I can't imagine the writers think we are smart enough to follow plots like that.
@@xyr3s Idk, depends how heavily they lean into the dynamics of the Forsaken. They'll deffo bring Ishamael back in some capacity though
After they skipped the fight with Turok, I figured they were saving time and budget for the big battle with Ishamael. What we got was… unimpressive. Overall, I’d say this season was a massive improvement, both in terms of quality and set up for future, more faithful seasons. The lackluster climax was probably the biggest letdown, which isn’t anything compared to S1.
I mean that would have so much worse if he beat him in a sword fight. He hasn’t earned even close to that win with a sword.
So it was the better alternative but they failed because it should never have been an alternative. Should have had him training with Lan instead of so many of the lame moments.
So the big battle sucked? Man that’s disappointing especially since they skipped one already
If you thought they were gonna give Rand some big moment where he can shine youre delusional and havent been watching the Egwane/Moraine show long enough
@@sharebear421 yeah there was no battle in the sky. I was looking forward to it so much
@@fenncarr3774 what happened in the sky/battle during the book?
I just wish that this show wasnt clearly being used as a learning experience for the showrunner and team. Its still confusing to me fhat they chose such a prestigious series with such an inexperienced team to run it.
True that, Season 1 should’ve started with a bang, I know alot of people who drop the show due to S1 being confusing and boring
Bit will they learn anything from the learning experience?
@@michaelcook2290 like damn, it is boring I can't with it some times
Not sure it's a learning experience. Seems 100% intentional to me. I think they genuinely believe they can tell a better story than Jordan. And when you have the showrunner Tweeting about how he's a feminist and how important it is to him for the show to be...that alone tells you where their priorities lie.
@@Maxavian They leaned into the intentional sexism in wheel of time but the problem is it comes across as it being because they genuinely think the misandrist mindsets the women have in the start and middle are correct and good.
The sexism in wheel of time is used to convey just how insane and ridiculous the whole concept of treating someone as lesser because of their gender is.
In the show it is used to convey how girlboss Egwene is. Egwene for the first half of the books was a blatant misandrist, they just took that and ran with it.
Elayne healing Rand I think is a callback to the skipped scene in the Caemlyn garden from book 1. Healing Rand (albeit with ointments and bandages) is literally the first thing she does when they meet (other than say hi and climb down a tree after him when Rand falls). This is the first time they meet in the show, and it gives them a pretext for starting a relationship.
I hope they go away with the Poly-marriage for Rand and give us an Egwenne+Rand end.
I'm totally okay with Rand not being with Egwenne, but the way this adaptation has PUSHED the RAND+EGWENNE ship so hard, I HOPE THEY END UP TOGETHER or I won't be fine for years.
Again, I'm okay with Rand nor being with Egwenne... but because of their "explored" relationship in the adaptation, which is NOT like the source material, I'm completely rooting for an Egwenne+Rand endgame.
It’s absolutely fucking batshit wild to me that they could start with source material the quality of The Great Hunt; and produce the absolute weaponized trash atrocity that was Season 2 of this show. I’m not even mad anymore; it’s comical how badly they’ve fucked this show up.
13:28 I think the reason they didn't focus on Brigitte is that the actress portraying her in S.2-E.8 won't be the permament actress for it so by not focusing on her they'll be able to recast her without issue.
14:03 Ingtar also said a Lady from Cairhien helped them. ie Selene aka Lanfear.
Agreed on the Moiraine thing. The fire dragon thing is just...no. It's horrible. As soon as it started I was just telling the screen no. Stop it. That's dumb. I'm with Sanderson on this: WoT has a set of hard-coded rules for what can and cannot be done with the One Power and once you start breaking rules it just goes downhill and becomes a mess. The scene would have been better if the Seanchan had come from Falme, the archer dude had been behind the soldiers and was taken out by a spare fireball from Moiraine, and she had been closer to the ship. The whole series of events fell flat, for me.
Mat needs his Ashandarei. Period. If they keep the dagger thing as his weapon of choice I'm going to have to write some very harshly-worded letters to some writers/producers. I don't mind him being a Hero of the Horn, it still works out great if they do the Finn thing (them giving him his actual past memories rather than random ones to suit the prophecy).
They better explain Perrin's shield as some sort of Ter'angreal that absorbs weaves in season 3. That's the only explanation I'll take. Otherwise it's just complete bullshit.
I don't like Rafe Judkins' fanboying over Egwene this episode. She dominates the episode and Rand gets to do fuck all. It's not Cat Crosses the Courtyard, it's Cat Sits on the Window Sill Chattering at Birds. There were so many things Ishamael should have done to break that shield. So many things.
Yup
About Ishy able to break the shield, I agree completely. However, why would he do that? First, afaik, he can't see the shield right? Second, how could he have known Egwene is literally one of the most powerful women channelers alive, meaning he doesn't have to just throw everything at ants. Can't he just show Rand that he is a million times more powerful than her, so that he would have the smallest chance at joining him?
Also, I don't think she held for a long time. Maybe 20 seconds alone at most. Imo that seems believable.
I just believe that Ishy is a lot stronger than what he showed, and the tv show had the potential to demonstrate and communicate it a lot better.
I agree with some of the criticism, there is a huge problem of communication, like Ishy let himself die, but why? Next cycle and stuff, or maybe he finally saw that Lews found new friends and just accepted he lost, but that was only briefly mentioned a few times. Thats not good enough motivation lets be real.
Despite my points, the fact that we're having this conversation is proof enough that there was a problem. I still liked it, but I realise I am not representing most book fans views (I am a book reader too, on my first reread!)
Also, Moraine strait up murders people! Not in self defense. Just kills a bunch of people!
Yeah the dragon spell thing was cringe, but it is what it is. Still enjoyed the season
@@soakedbearrd Agreed. I enjoyed the season a lot, but I do think there were some underlying issues that prevented it from being great.
The lack of development of Rand and lack of continuity in the magic system are real killers for me. Neglecting the main character and using the magic system to fix every plot issue devalues the difficulties that will be presented throughout the series because any channeled can destroy an entire army.
Their is continuity and one channeled can kill an entire army
@@SolitaryLark No you are wrong, there is no continunity in how the magic is portrayed and the fact that they showed Moairiane destroying an entire fleet of ships means magic can solve all problems in the show. It has no rules and thus the whole show is robbed of any tension or risk. Magic is the solution and answer to any and every problem. Thats the consequence of implementing a soft magic system.
@@JeremyS.-ug3sp a fleet of ships is not a particularly odd thing to destroy. The book armies are destroyed by channelers this is nothing.
@@JeremyS.-ug3sp and with that condescending attitude I’m out. Dudes fuck boy have a horrible day 😊
My biggest issue I think was Nynaeve in this episode with the not being able to do anything stuff, not because I don't get the block but because of how she was upset enough seeing a bunch of basically strangers getting injured in season one and basically exploding with power that heals them but then seeing Rand - who she knew her entire life - half dead and just sitting there like "well, I'm blocked, I'm sad now". They really can't decide what to do with her, huh? 😅
I think they may have wanted to show that her block deepens after Ryma. Because she almast overcame it there, but the result was disasterous and traumatizing, making the block digg in deeper.
@@leza4453 It's all horse pucky. Just another of the many inconsistencies in this show.
My main thought coming out of this was "Why would you write it this way"
It was a constant thought I had throughout the episode, but the two biggest offenders were the start and end (excluding prologue and epilogue)
They start with Rand in the weird creepy paths with an "Angel" (Moraine), and a "Devil" (Lanfere) and instead of having an interesting conversation where they are both trying to convince him to follow their paths Moraine just gets kicked out, and then Lanfere teleports Rand into the city, like the setup from the last episode there was so promising (if a strange character choice), and then they do nothing with it
And then at the end they had Moraine create the massive dragon proclaiming Rand as the Dragon Reborn, surely it should have been Rand, it was set up to be his big "I am the Dragon, I am powerful" moment, but then you just had someone miles away make a big dragon, if anything it feels more like Moraine was the Dragon in that scene, also I'm pretty sure the prophecy said "he will proclaim himself the Dragon", which is not really what happened, again Moraine proclaimed him the Dragon, just such a weird choice
You should check out The Sword and The Pen Reflections. She is an editor who is reading the books for the first time while simultaneously watching the shows. Her channel is full of comments about, "okay I know you had to change some things, but if you had done it this way it would have made a better storyline and plot!" Sometimes she sides with the book, but often she says I like what was started in this part but it was written so bad the audience can't follow it seriously.
I think they were trying to do a Dune thing, where the people who know about the prophecies are the ones who used it in their favour.
But at the same time I don't think it should be Rand declaring himself the Dragon, because he never really does it with intention, not even when he takes the sword in Tear.
It's the problem of removing pieces from the show, the writers still have to hit certain landmarks but now they don't have pieces that are essential for that landmark to hit properly, in this case not having the Dragon Banner being a part of the story.
At best they should have shown Rand attacking Ishamel in anger and that would cause a fire effect where people would see the shape of a Dragon.
@tiagomagalhaes7032 that's actually a great work around that would have been closer to the books spirit.
Moraines entire story in the final episode was just pants crapping insane. Not only is she not capable of doing what she did, on a power level, but she obviously could not do what she did because of the three oaths. But then as you point out...for literally no reason other then a forsaken told her to. She thinks to conjure up a flaming dragon around a tower and it just happens to be a tower where Rand is, and it acts as the banner for Rand. Its literally just Deus Ex Machina. The most boring story trope. I would have more respect for the shows story if this proved Moraine was a dark friend no longer bound by the three oaths, and she was working with Lanfear all along to manipulate Rand into thinking he's the dragon using Aes Sedai tricks. At least then the things happening would make sense, and it really would be a "new turning of the wheel".
I was always of the opinion that part of Rand’s skill with a sword was his memories from Lews Therin, who was a blade master, bleeding over.
It's his intense daily training for months with Lan, the greatest swordsman alive at the time of the books. In the books Rand actually learns to use the sword, as opposed to it being a useless prop in the show.
I was also so disappointed with the writing for Nynaeve this episode. Prior events this season seemed to have been building up for Nynaeve to heal someone with channeling: they showed her struggling with her block, Liandrin (of all people) triggering her to get her to finally channel, and Liandrin bringing her to see someone doing healing weaves in the Tower.
Very true. That was dropped.
That's because people are "filling in" what's missing from the show. Eveything single thing is confusing and defenders have to piece elaborate explanations as to why it could possibly be the way it is
Ikr. Even Ryma sacrificed herself and her warder so Nyn and Elayne could do what? Nuthin at all.
@@jamesalexander958Just look at Daniel Greene's comment section and count the number of times "head canon" or "they have this in the books" to try and make sense of various instances that the show does not clarify.
I think she almost overcame her block woth Ryma, but the result was so disasterous and traumatizing, that the block dug in even deeper.
The finale kinda tainted the whole season for me because it reminded me that Rand still hasn't accomplished anything yet.
As good as the Egwene episodes and the Forsaken were, our main character still is getting hard-carried by everyone with little agency.
Maybe that's a setup for future seasons where he finally decides to rebel and walk his path. But for now I think Rand is kind of pathetic as a character in the show.
I'm loving Ishy and Lanfear though ! Even if Ishy's demise was super lame. Moghedien seems sooooo interesting (more so than in the books for me at first glance)
Overall this season is vastly superior to season one !
I'd rate it a 7/10 I think, pretty decent ! Hopefully they keep improving.
Rafe def is just writing a fanfic where he pretends Egwene is the dragon
He chose to stop hiding, took interest in learning to channel and use a sword, learned to not trust aes sedai except M, ordered around Lanfear, killed a forsaken, and allowed himself to be revealed as the dragon reborn. When he wasn't doing that, he was showing his character, as the champion of the light, by giving money to begars, taking care of the sick and elderly and trying to save his friends. He made it his mission to save Egwene. We know he was being manipulated, but it was still his choice to try to save her.
@@natapunc All that stuff is arranged for him, though. The lessons. Even Lanfear babies him. He in fact doesn't reveal himself -- Moiraine does, an Aes Sedai, just as if he was still shielded by the Amyrlin Seat.
I think it's odd that we are enjoying the "bad guys" so much! I resonated with Ishy, not wanting to keep being reincarnated and Lanfear as a character was having more fun than any of the others.
I have not read the books so l had to agree with Barry about the show being about scenes not story. So many plot lines dropped like Perrin killing his wife and never gives her a second thought, but I'm supposed to care 'cuz his wolf dies? I saw reviewers actually crying. *Sigh
Not letting Rand save Eggy or at least Elayne or Nyeneve since their plot line fell through pretty quickly was a disservice to Rand who seems intermittently useless.
@@kirstencorby8465 so like the books where moraine organizes it so he’s second in command and Fain leads him by the nose to Falme. And even when he’s doing his own thing in Cairhein with the game of houses his decision is to…not make a decision that works out for him because he’s ignorant.
I disagree with needing more time, all three LOTR books were told in 9 hours. They've had 18 hours now and have "tried" to tell two books. I'm not saying being as good as that adaptation is realistic, but I still think it paints a picture of how much is possible to do and how little they did
they keep adding random ass scenes, plot lines, and characters that have nothing to do with the books. They could adapt the books in 8 episodes, they just don’t want to.
Each WoT book is almost as thick as the entire LoTR trilogy. The first WoT book is actually too similar to LoTR. They have to cut and compress 14 WoT books into 8 seasons, and chop them into 64 episodes. Btw season 2 was books 2 and 3.
Edited out the "I don't think you realize" b/c it sounded condescending.
@@natapunc I think I do realize it, lotr have fewer but way longer and denser POV's or "scenes" sometimes. and I said I didn't expect it to be perfect, I still believe it can be used as a metric and when you do that this series really falls flat. also "I don't think you realize how small the LoTR trilogy is in comparison to WoT..." obviously I get that, it's 14 books vs 3, but they're adapting one book at a time here
@@natapuncI think you’re exaggerating. WoT is definitely broader as a story with more characters. RJ was also significantly more verbose than Tolkien and repeated himself far more. In short, word count is not an appropriate comparison.
@@Plexsusmax the entire LOTR trilogy is less than 50 percent longer than just EotW by word count
I've been trying to separate this series from the books to try and enjoy it more, but this episode was so damn painful...
I can't tell you how many times I've told myself before each episode that I need to forget the books and enjoy the adaptation. I can't. They mangled the original source so badly. So now I enjoy watching just to pick apart all the glaring errors and inconsistencies from the writers. Does no one keep a spreadsheet of the different arcs so as not to contradict themselves on almost every episode???
This was the first one I couldn't actually finish. It literally brought me physical pain. And that is a very high bar since the show has had many terrible episodes.
Has our writing fallen so far that the current expectation for adaptations is that you either have to turn your brain off if you don't know the source material or do mental acrobatics if you do? 😢
There's another element to Rand's swordfighting skills that nobody ever seems to acknowledge; he's the reincarnation of one of the greatest swordsmen who ever lived.
Sure, you might not be able to beat Mike Tyson with only a year of training, even if you had the best coach in the world, but would that still be the case if you were the reincarnation of Mohammed Ali, and had also spent a lifetime learning a technique that allows you to ignore your conscious mind and listen to your natural instincts?
One thing you may have missed, they explained Ingtar and Loial getting the horn with a single line from Ingtar; that a Cairhien noblewoman helped them. Ya’ll smart enough to figure out who haha. Love your take Daniel, I can’t wait for season 3.
I was confused for a while because i binged the show and didn't really memorize the places but i had a suspicion that it was her, and then there's a scene after that where she talked with master domon and he said my lady youre far away from Cairhien. It did help hahaha. Non book reader btw.
Oh good catch!
@@zianiman who gave them the horn? I missed something and now it's bugging me. I thought it was odd some noble lady just gave it to them. Was it lanfear? That's the only one I can think of that could do it.
They (Aes Sedai) all know that Nynaeve's block is anger... why not have Elayne bitch slap Nynaeve as the archer is about to take a shot? Then you'd have a cool visual moment of Nynaeve jacking up the archer (possibly with his own arrow through the neck) while simultaneously healing Elayne. This would show her power, and her intelligence rather than her being powerless, AND stupid. Also, why is a dragon giving a tower a handjob more impressive than two HUGE figures having a sword fight in the clouds above the city where EVERYRYONE can see Rand's face? You know, rather than some ant sized silhouettes of a couple people beneath a ridiculously large flaming dragon... seriously, what's more of an announcement. a little bitty silhouetted figure, or a HUGE handjoby dragon?
Also, something that took me completely out of it... where the hell did the Seanchan soldiers come from that were fighting Lan? Were they just having a team building beach day making sand castles, in full armor, and then they saw a woman convulsing on the beach (since they can't see weaves)?
On a positive note, and in disagreement with Daniel, the background actors running and walking nonchalantly in the background is accurate. I watched people be exactly like that in the LA Riots... and, go watch ground footage during 9/11 in NY, you'll see the same thing. People have a shitload of different reactions to danger.
The dragon was stupid af.
Especially because all it would take for SFX is to greenscreen Rand and Ishi onto the sky, it's literally something they could do so easily, and just made it such a wtf at the end that I am almost back to s1 because it's such an inane choice.
It would look goofy as hell. Same with the ending of book one, where Rand seemingly channels intentionally and "cuts" of Ishamael and destroys the trolloc. Then he basically doesnt touch saidin in book 2. Non-readers would wonder why the fuck he stopped channeling/forgot how to do it. It barley makes any sense in the books and the show does not have the time the books have. Was the ending to s1 great? no. and personally I also felt that the cgi dragon was a bit extra cheesy but I understand the set-up (Lanfear makes Moiraine take the decision to proclaim Rand thus furthering the notion that Moiraine is controlling Rand -> trying to make Rand trust her and that all others will just use him).
When they choose to pump their filler in the run time that is available to them and ignore the book material at the same time it is tough to justify a 12-episode season. Look at this show versus something like One Piece. One of them chooses to adapt the source material, maintain the core plot, characters, heart and soul of the source material, and respect the author's opinion. The other did the exact opposite.
One piece should be a example of what to do
@@lunkystraydog6572 what's crazy is that it should have been harder to adapt than WoT, but somehow the OPLA is incredibly enjoyable even on its own. They efficiently managed to streamline the show and also managed to add things using knowledge of future events in the manga. The level of care and attention to detail even to the smallest things in the background of that show is phenomenal and elevates the show even further for manga and anime fans. With WOT it is the exact opposite. Honestly kinda unbelievable lmao.
@@Haxerous It's almost as if the writers of NOTWOT never read or cared to understand the source material. It's almost as if the writers of NOTWOT kinda hate the fact that Rand is the protagonist and have just decided to screw over all the fans with feminist claptrap. What's sad IMO is that the women in the book are some of the most strongly written women in fantasy. And STILL it isn't enough. Nope - lets take a massive dump on the fans because " patriarchy" or something like that.
@@KirelRed it's not even a feminist claptrap, it just fails on all fronts to deliver character arcs. Main female characters were abandoned and/or misused this season. Nynaeve's character arc fell flat, and she failed to Heal despite the fact that there were a lot of circumstances that should have aggravated her to be able to channel. Moiraine went around in circles the whole season and then violated the three oaths randomly in the finale. Min was made a darkfriend then abandoned. Egwene got the attention she did because she is allegedly his 'favorite character', but I think that's only based off of offhand comments from his book consultants. I don't believe for a second he has read a single page from the Wheel of TIme.
The Filler actually added to the show in my Opinion though, especially the drama piece sections with moraine's family. A 12 episode season would allow them to do that and do the book sections justice without having to pick one or the other
Fan reviews of this season feel like a parent discussing their child's first tee-ball game. Everyone is giving the show credit for being able to hit the ball, but we ignore that they hit it foul, tried to run to first base, then tripped over their shoelaces.
That's a great analogy. 🤣🤣
This right here! 💯
EXACTLY!!
Disagree. I think season 2 is better than Jordan:s writing.
@@davidbowles7281 good on you.
How many times he says "we just have to fill in the blank"......feels like bad writing and story telling.
Nice review!
I kind of understand where the writers were going with the ending "the unity" and them being together as EF5 for the last time as they were, but it just didn't land for me. Basically everything that happened on top of that tower from Eggy releasing herself without help to her battling Ishamael and Rand getting just the final stab was a let down. What did Egwene's character gain from that? That to be strong you don't need to bend and it's OK to murder if you have the chance.
What will Masema say? "I saw you at the top of that tower present when the Dark one committed suicide"
There won't be paintings of the Dragon Reborn battling in the sky on Elaida's walls, nor reports of it for Pedron Niall because none of that happened. Rand just spent second episode in a row on his knees and 2/2 finale moments taken away from him.
And like I said, I understand what they're trying to write, I just don't like it.
It's the strong woman trope creeping in again.😅
@@ethancoster1324 it's not that. If you go read Sarah's comments on it on X, you'll understand the intention and I buy it.
Just it was poorly done.
@@mrpolskija It's definitely that. There are so many moments where they've tried to enforce their agenda and killed the spirit of the books.
1. The opening scene of the first season shows Moiraine blaming the breaking to the arrogance of men, when she told Egwene that it wasn't their fault in the first book. They also made Lews Therin an arrogant fool while his actions in the book were out of desperation. Lews Therin WON the war of power.
2. They completely skipped Rands training with the sword because it would've made him semi competent. Even though it's a huge part of him stepping up as a leader.
3. The fuckery they pulled with the Trolloc army. Egwene REVIVED Nynaeve.
And now this. Egwene freeing herself and shielding against Ishamael for a solid 30 seconds or so while Rand once again gets his ass saved by others. At this point Rafe should've just had the balls to make Egwene the Dragon Reborn.
There’s one rule to being a man. Face whatever comes grovelling on your knees until a woman comes and saves you.
@@paawan3764 They should have let Nyneave and Elayne help Egwene get free of Renna. It would have made Egwene less of a Mary Sue and give the other two a conclusion of their days in Falme. I'm agree that it is lackluster that Rand doesn't get anything strong to do. I get they want to build him up, but Egwene and Nyneave aren't built up; they just do. They could have given him some sort of battle moment with Ishy or some 'unlock' of his abilities. I did enjoy this season a lot more than S1, but the best parts (Egwene's captivity) were the parts that came straight from the books. Everything that was made up by the writers was also the weakest. They really should take a hint from that.
Judkins' skill as a writer couldn't be better explained than by just showing an ending that is literally "and then everyone clapped".
Right! Why are they clapping!? Why would a giant fire dragon on top of a tower mean anything to them? Why would they see it as a good sign?
@@MariaVosa they didn't even see anything of what happened on the tower, it would have made more sense to clap for the Whitecloaks lol
I thought you were kidding and the people were in the streets were merely cheering (which would be bad enough in itself) but I checked and some were really clapping.
Maybe they thought the fire Dragon was an impromptu Illuminators Guild show. :)
@@jackshaftoe21 lmao i wondered the same, maybe they really thought it were just fireworks😅
It seems that Falm prophecy about the dragon is widely known by everyone in the show. So I think people recognized what they saw as a proclamation of the dragon reborn. But given how false dragons have used prophesies for their own purposes before I have no idea why people are cheering because a) it’s a dragon, he’ll start a war, plus a male channelers are not highly liked and b) you just had 2 false dragons rummage area nearby, how are you so sure that one’s real?
The main aspect which annoyed me about the fire dragon at the end is: it's Moraine's dragon, not Rand's.
In both the books and the series people repeat "The Dragon Reborn will declare himself at Falme", which - in the end - he didn't. It was Moraine who declared him the Dragon Reborn, who, in turn, had been ordered to do so by Lanfear.
As much as Rand is guided by Moraine and misled by Lanfear in the books, this is the moment where he should (at least start to) break free, truly becoming the Dragon Reborn for all the world to see, by earning a victory which everybody could and indeed did witness. Here, no-one could even see - much less identify - the (real) enemy (i.e. Ishamael), no-one could witness Rand's feeble victory, and Rand himself seems more confused by the situation than the people of Falme, who apparently nothing but expected a boy with some friends on their tower and a flame dragon above them when remembering the prophecy speaking of a red banner in the sky.
The "archer" is confirmed to be recast for the rest of the series. They didn't have a definite actor for this scene. Maybe that's why they didn't focus on them
I don't get the 'needs more time' arguments. They have plenty of time. So much time they can add stuff like house damodred drama and moraine being stilled but not stilled. Clearly time isn't an issue.
As a non-book reader, I totally understood the horn and it's significance, and the blowing of it was a huge moment for me.
Also pretty much all of the arcs, especially for rand and moraine, were very well formed and understandable to me though I understand how perhaps them having different arcs in the books could cloud your judgement/understanding of that.
Then I have to ask, in the context of this TV series why was it important, and why was it a big moment for you?
@@OracleTruth24 To me it just looked very cringe and corny. The heroes of the horn did not look impressive either.
@@nyikomaswanganyi5983 That's what I imagined a lot of non-book readers' reactions would be to that scene. Admittedly the book scene is corny, but the scenario is unique. An ethereal army enveloped in fog tethered to a man projected in the sky, who is fighting what looks to be the Dark One. My point was that there was no build up to the horn or why we should care in the first place.
That wasn't an army. That was 12 dudes. Hardly enough to turn the tides of any "last battle"
Uno was a hero of the horn in this because it helps communicate to new viewers that the horn resurrects dead heroes. I've noticed that from watching several "no book" reaction videos -- they all go "what's happening" "oh patch guy!" "oh the horn brings back badasses!" and they get it
As usual, your review is my favorite. It about killed me to have to wait so long for it! You always manage to point out one or two things I miss. But I'm disappointed. You didn't point out what I think was the elephant in the room, and that is Egwene should not have been able to pick up that collar because she intended to hurt Renna with it. We learned in Ep 6 that she cannot touch or do anything with the intent of harming her Suldam. I am also looking forward to S3, which is s total turn about from what i felt for S2 debut.
RIP Hopper. 😭
Daniel has to be careful of the toxic fandom of the show, they showed their true colors attacking even someone as renowed as Brandon just because he had some critiques of the finale, a youtuber has to restraint sometimes, specially in niches like fantasy/books where you don't have huge fanbases that can absorb and control a loud and toxic minority.
Another question is how did Egwene channel flows of air to hang Renna? She can only channel what her Suldam, Renna, commands her to do. Surely Renna didn't make Egwene hang herself. And even if you accept that Egwene could pick up the A'dam and put it on Renna's neck, according to the show Renna is a woefully weak channeler who has never channeled before. She has never so much as touched the One Power. It seems really odd to expect Egwene, who has never been a suldam before, to successfully force Renna, who has never channeled before to hang herself.
There's just a whole lot that doesn't make any sense.
AND Daniel--you are correct. Because of the short length of the seasons, there are some narrative aspects that are just missing. Things just seem to happen without buildup or without any lead-up to explain what happens. Gaps.
If Rafe would stop spending so much time getting his partner screen time maybe we could talk about more episodes per season...The showrunners do not care about the viewers and pretending otherwise is folly....Also are we not gonna talk about Rosamund Pike phoning in the entire season?
I would like to thank shows like WOT, ROP, Witcher, GOT and many other shows because thanks to them I've been reading books for actual good stories to a point that I picked up a paperwhite as I was running out of shelf space for my books.
Out of curiosity, what's ROP?
@@williamcook8747rings of power
@@williamcook8747Rings of Power
I would never have completed The Wheel of Time books if it wasn’t for the show. I started them in the 90s when you had to wait for years between books and stopped reading them at university as my interest fell off (prob during “the slog”. My dad died a couple of months before the tv series came out and he had the last 3 books in hard back and had loved them. I took them home when the TV series started and began again with Eye of the World.
@@helenl4698Good for you! That wait between books later in the series was not easy. Sorry to hear about your dad.
Its the Wheel of Egwene and the Aes Sedai at this point.
Really enjoy watching your thoughts on this stuff because we seem to generally be in the same place mentally/emotionally with this series. Keep doing what you're doing!
An upward trajectory(not saying much given how low we're starting) that came to a screeching halt with episode 7, and then plummeted even lower with episode 8. Would rate this a 2
I think Loial mentioned they had help from a ‘lady from Cairhien’ helped them get the horn.
Well, at least things are on the up. I loved the finale, but it had issues. That's this season overall: plenty of good, but still issues that need to be worked on.
Thank you! I've been waiting for this!
i think it could have been done in 8 episodes if,
A) they cut down on fleshing out liandrin, i mean i think she got more screen time than rand this season, definitely more than matt and perrin. i get rafe loves the white tower and the aes sedai, but so much screen time in the tower really hurt the limited time imo.
B) cut that shit with moiraine being a fking bitch to lan to push him away.
C) the damodred family drama.
i get they seem to be trying to do a slow burn with rand. but he IS the main character. imagine watching one piece live action with luffy getting 5 mins of screen time each episode and half of those episodes, he was just staying in a place banging a chick. i dunno if any non book readers actually understand how much of a problem rand is if he goes mad. we see at the end of book 1 what he is capable of wiping out an entire trolloc army and understand that if he goes mad or goes bad, the world is truly fucked.
also did lews seal ishamael before he fought the dark one? when does ishamael heal lews's madness to show him that in his madness he wiped out his entire bloodline?
also is the horn just gone now? does it automatically reset into a random place in the world and there has to be a new hunt for the horn to find it again?
i really wish rafe actually used more things from the book like how the magic system works. at this point, it feels like harry potter magic mixed with interpretive dancing. rand can use it when he needs to but otherwise he's powerless on his knees.
Another detail they haven't addressed that would have lead into Rand being good with a sword, outside of his training with Lan, is "the Oneness" when channeling. Being deeply aware of every minute detail of your surroundings while channeling the Power giving an additional level of skill in practically everything makes Rand a much better swordsman than anyone else with his level of training could have been. It leads into his intense training later on, along with being prepared for possible shielding in future encounters, where he intentionally doesn't touch the One Power while practicing his fighting.
Throw away line from Lan remarking his sword Stance and getting training from the old man . Sadly not like the books but that's all we got
Yes. There is no 'seeking the void' in this adaptation.
I had to think about it, but Rand is perfectly situated to learn the sword. Genetically he’s on par with Olympic medalists, he’s a master with the bow and quarterstaff, and has been trained in what is effectively a highly advanced battle trance since childhood. Sure, he’s seen very little actual combat, but the foundations are all there for quickly adapting advanced sword skills
We got hints of a meditative mental focus with Rand practicing archery in season 1 episode 7. It was not much, but a hint. Hopefully we will get some real training with Rand and Lan (and Rhuarc?) in season 3.
As a non book reader, but a big fantasy fan:
I have zero understanding of what the horn is, why it's important, who the heroes are... Like zero. To me, the horn was not set up much at all, it was less than a side plot point, and so Mat's scene with it just didn't really have any weight to be? I had no emotional reaction, and didn't really understand the calling of him a hero??? Mat didn't seem to have any arc this season, and the horn just seemed so random. None of that thread worked or made sense to me this episode. Very confusing.
Yeah… that’s a problem
Between this and the fact I've seen similar people that only watch the show straight up forgetting Mat exists, I know they're mishandling tf out of his character.
Love your page!!!! Great review
I agree completely with "give future seasons more episodes" but how they got the horn was actually explained, just in a throwaway line you could easily miss. It was Lanfear - referred to as "Cairhien woman". Basically the entire season was orchestrated by Lanfear, even things like Moiraine going to Rand was manipulated by her - she sent Domon with the broken cuendillar and poem to give to Moiraine so she'd know Lanfear was free.
Doubt I'm the first to make this comment haha
Just saying "Oh Lanfear just gave them the horn" without showing it happen is so contrived and lazy writing that they might as well have not said anything at all.
I like how its going now… s2 is a definite step up but a little disappointing… just a lil…
If we can have a show that gradually gets better over time instead of worse, like a lot of them do, then I am well pleased.
Why not just go to a show already good? As far as I am concerned, Rafe had two seasons to be interesting and fell flat. Few people ever get a crack at one season. I say find someone else and call this series a loss.
That's a very low bar to have.
S2 ep 8. When Elaine is hit, Nyneaves block could have caused her to rely on practical medicine without the OP. This would have exemplified 2 important parts of Nyneaves character. You could also use this to show how Elaine needs to learn how to rely on those around her, and stay back so she can survive to keep her nation that she is responsible for alive.
I’m really disappointed by how it’s going.
I don’t understand what they are doing with Rand. He is supposed to be the Dragon Reborn, the main character and the hero basically but for two seasons he is doing absolutely nothing…
At the end of season one they took away from him the moment he truly shows his power and destroy the trollocs army and they gave that to a random never seen again female character.
And in season two they just did the same. They gave what was supposed to be Rand’s fight against Ishy to Egween without any reason. It’s frustrating it’s like it has to be a female who do the main fight every time and not the Dragon reborn…
Also it’s basically incoherent that Egween can hold Ishy like that. She is nowhere as powerful as him…
Interesting hearing your insight, as a non book reader i absolutely loved this final episode, the only bit i didnt enjoy was Nynaeve and Elayne, but the rest i really enjoyed, and it was kinda silly the way they just appeared one by one at the top of the tower. I was initially confused with Matt and the horn and the hero's as i know they kind of did a bit of set up with him drinking the tea in the last episode, but i still enjoyed the fight scene.
I do really want to read the books, but i think i'm going to wait till after the adaptation has completed, so i can just keep on enjoying it for what it is
that is a lot of years you would have to wait...
I am pretending they all showed up because they are linked by being Ta'veren and the wheel/pattern placed them all together.
Don’t deprive yourself man just read the books the quality discrepancy between the adaption and the original story is so massive it’s insane
Fan theory on why Ishamael was weak at the top of the tower was because he just broke all the Forsaken Seals before going to battle.
Ya makes sense. You see him wipe dust from his hands when he goes to tell Suroth what to do with the ships
That's a silly theory. There is no such thing as channeling fatigue in the show, and Ishy wouldn't have gone to face the bloody DR on empty. Plus, that hardly explains his gamepad apparently being stuck on continuous fireball.
Yep, if the show doesn’t make sense keep making up things until it does.
@@bigjonS4 💯
@@bigjonS4 as a long time Star Wars Fan, I was built for this.
I really loved watching your reactions to the final episode, all three of you.
*light book spoilers* I think Perrin's whole arc in this season could have been improved if they added Faile. They did the part where he freed an Aiel from the cage so she could have still been intrigued by that and wanting to follow him. But since she's a hunter of the horn they could have used scenes with him to set up the horn and the heroes of the horn a bit more so it would have more impact in the finale. Faile could have met Bain and Chiad earlier and built a bond with them. As it stands in the show I would assume that they would have more loyalty to Perrin since they spent time with him and fought with him. And because they are combining books it would give more time to set her up as a character because if they combine books 3 and 4 for season 3 her romance is going to super rushed (if they have her at all).
Damn I forgot she was a hunter
We don't need Failed, she's the worst character in the books
@@dassadec oh yes obviously. I was sort of operating under the assumption that if they chose to adapt her they would make her a wildly different character, given how hated she is and that now I think it's generally accepted that a "strong female character" shouldn't constantly hit and manipulate her husband. I suppose I should have clarified a "Faile-adjacent character"
I really think that Birgitte will be recast if that character appears in later seasons. That was likely a place holder, so I can understand not pointing her out.
Something someone on the reddit pointed out, in the books Rand actually had the flicker flicker moment where he lived out entire lives multiple times, and in most of those lives he was a swordsman or a blademaster in his own right. Also you are forgetting that Lews Therin was a blademaster greater than any other blademaster in the AoL and that Rand was at that point having a lot of bleedthrough of his past lives because the dark one's taint hadn't caused his past life memories to be separated in to the voice of LTT.
huh, you also forgot that Lan, the greatest blademaster at the time of the books was teaching rand, for months. Also, I always thought Rand was hearing the voice of Lews as a separate person because he didn't accept he truly was both people in one. At the end of A Gathering Storm, he finally accepts that he is both Rand AND Lews Therin at the same time, and never hears the voice again, because it's HIS inner voice.
@@alcovitch No, I remember that. You just didn't watch the video because Daniel specifically calls out that even being trained by the greatest blademaster of the world for months wouldn't let most people be able to beat another blademaster.
Also in the beginning Rand didn't have Lews voice as much in his head and was speaking from his memories like calling Lanfear her real name and other things. As he channeled more the voice became more obvious and Rand had less access to his memories and instead needed to use the voice and talk to the voice for knowledge.
The biggest disappointment for me is that after 2 seasons, I still don’t understand the magic system or the abilities of the main characters.
The use of the collars (I dunno how it’s spelled) is confusing. In the same episode Egwaine can touch the collar, but then is told if she even touches it she’ll feel pain. Then she tries to touch it and feels pain. But later she touches it again and doesn’t feel pain. If she tries to hurt/kill her Soldam(?) she will feel double the pain, but then she can kill her soldam without dying herself?
Nynaeve channels into the collar when she wasn’t angry. But then she can’t heal Elaine or Rand? But wouldn’t she be extremely angry at what Ishamael did to Rand?? We’ve been shown how fiercely protective she is of her people.
Both Egwaine and Nynaeve appear to be stronger in the power than Rand. So far, the power levels among the heroes seems to be Egwaine, Moiraine, Nynaeve, Rand. They say Nynaeve is the strongest but I haven’t seen it. And everyone is stronger than Rand.
Rand cutting Moiraine’s shield(?) is crazy, because he hasn’t been taught to control it at all, much less do something that requires skill and precision! Same thing when he kills the Turoc(?) he does that so expertly! How?? And btw how can Lan guide Rand into cutting Moiraine’s shield?? Can he see weaves because he’s bonded to Moiraine?
If Lanfear is immortal, why isn’t Ishamael also immortal? How could he die from being stabbed, when Lanfear didn’t?
The dagger melted the door, and practically melted the guard. So how did Loial survive?? How did Rand?? Also, doesn’t it taint anyone it touches?
Yup! These are the reasons the show is crap. It has nothing to with being faithful to the books, something some show defenders have trouble acknowledging.
They’ve definitely fudged the lore 🤣
As someone who comes to this show without any prior book knowledge, the entire Horn-plot was completely weird to me. We never actually get to learn what it does, I think (or I couldn't remember). We start the season with Perrin and Co. running around trying to find it, and I honestly didn't care, because I didn't understand what it meant, really, this McGuffin that had gotten stolen. Then it gets traded around as a gift to people and once again I was like "Sure, ok, now it's gone, still don't know why we all are supposed to care about it though, so I'm not too mad or sad to lose it...". And then, it gets stolen back by the good guys and we are seemingly all super happy about it and I had completely forgotten it existed, ONCE AGAIN, and was like "What's in the booooox?" until someone explained it, and even then I was like "why are you carrying that thing around, why is this more important than anything else..."
And then Matt blows it and it does... stuff... with... ghosts? Heroes from the past? Do I HAVE to know what happened there, because I do not care enough to research it, honestly.
All that aside, I am genuinely enjoying the show so far, will probably re-watch the first two seasons before watching the third season when it comes out; and I have now finally purchased all of the books and will try to read them. It's a very daunting task though.
BTW: Worst part of the entire season for me was Hopper dying. How DARE they.
Why can't they ever stick the landing. My must they always do a "Egwene is the GREATEST OF ALL TIME" moment at the expense of all the other characters. I am stick to death of Egwene the mary-sue all power god bitch. It's not the actresses fault it's just such bad writing.
My biggest issue with this finale is that it keeps asking me to turn my brain off. There are way too many scenes that just don’t make sense. Why don’t the Seanchan just close the city gates against the Whitecloaks? Where were the guards at the gate? Where did the trebuchets come from? Where does this cutting through metal power for the dagger come from? Why does Ishamael need Mat to kill Rand when he’s literally powerless in front of him? It just takes you out of the moment and discourages engagement with the show. It feels like the writers aren’t comfortable writing scenes that aren’t drama focused
In regards to having Mat wound rand.
Ishy is obviously trying to prove to rand that both him and his friends are better off not being together.
Having mat wound him was likely a gambit to break their friendship. That part works fine for me.
@np9145 but for Ishamael, Mat is a tool to kill Rand, not psychologically wound him. Mat is setup to be a back up plan if Ishamael fails to convert Rand, but what does he need Mat to do that he couldn’t do himself. Does it have to be the dagger that kills Rand? It goes back to the big problem with the episode, a lot of things in the finale that are not set up happen randomly and a bunch of things that were set up were dropped
the woman who takes the horn from Mat is Amaresu, she is the female counterpart of the Dragon, she becomes a dragon in an age when the Pattern needs a woman to be a dragon to fight the dark one, she is the one who scorns Mat in the book for blowing the horn!
This person WoTs!
You're right, but she wouldn't be a Dragon. That's a title specifically given to Lews and Rand. She would just be a Champion of the Light, like the Dragon is.
@@stephengrant4841
You're trying to be pedantic, but Berndr didn't say she was the dragon. He said she was the female counterpart. So, you're just saying what he said in different words.
But also, Bern, I remember chatting with you elsewhere and I know for damn sure I disagree with you strongly on so much :P
‘If you’re not a book nerd 70% of my crit won’t matter.” Yup. Absolutely. That nerd part gets in the way of your best parts.
I’m totally with you regarding the Egwene/Rena conclusion. Despite the questionable A’dam mechanics, the acting was so phenomenal that any incredulity I might have felt was just slammed to the background as I was engrossed with the conflict between the two of them. Loved it!
I also think you’re right that the technical aspects we as book readers struggle with because we have so much more knowledge about everything Wheel of Time-most of it doesn’t matter from the perspective of a viewer of the series who hasn’t read the books. They take a lot of liberties because they must without more time to explain, more episodes would certainly help.
I am pretty sure from what I’ve heard about Amazon, that were never going to get that though. 😢
I liked the finale more than you did, but it’s cause I really do leave my book head out if it for the most part lol.
Fantastic review!
The horn was easily taken by Loial because Lanfear gave it to him. He states that a Cairehein woman helped them. It was a hint that Lanfear was in the background still meddling with things to Rand's advantage.
im so annoyed at how many people miss that.. How after multiple viewings do these nerds not hear that line and get it...
I picked up on that right away, but because something is explained doesn't make it good right? We could have seen Frodo and Sam climbing toward mount doom and then waking up in minas tirith and they could have just said that they did it. I definitely get what you're saying though, good point :)
Thanks for the review Daniel! I definitely liked this season a looot more than the first, and I really look forward to season 3. Here's hoping the producers let the writers stretch out the season!
26:23 my best guess: since the weave shield is cgi, the director didn't know he had to have perrin stand more to the front(so that the physical shield could be outside of the magic shield), and the editors weren't able to make the shield good enough with him so close. i have no idea tho
S2 E1 had Perrin launching a lantern on Beltine for Laila and almost letting his wedding ring float away with it. His wedding band was brought up two more times including by Avi. I hope with Perrin going back to the Two Rivers in S3 that we will get more of a conclusion to that. Perrin did gradually pick up and use an axe again, so he obviously is working through his issues with violence.
Working through his issues with violence? If they do this right, this is him practically starting his issue with violence
It doesn't make any sense for him to have a wife in the first place, or accidentally killing her. It sets up a character arc that you are simply just going to re-set-up, which is exactly what killing Geofram did in this season. There is no "conclusion" to this arc, it only gets more in depth throughout the books. I do not even remember that lantern and wedding ring scene, or his wedding band being brought up. It's THAT insignificant in the grand scheme of the show.
As for Mat, I really do think it was the shows way of Mat like taking control over the dagger.
Despite what Brando said too, I am not sure that it going to be his permanent ashandarai.
As someone who hasn’t read the books yet, I really think season 2 was a great watch. The pace was much better than season 1 and it got me interested in reading the books.
Completely agree about the horn. In the show it felt like just a minor side plot. There was an entire book about the hunt for it.
You mention being ok with Rand Indiana Jonesing Turak because we didn't get to see Lan training Rand in the show. That is precisely the problem. Had the show given us scenes of the two training, then the sword fight would have made sense. You can't critique these decisions in a vacuum. You need to recognize that there is a domino effect. This is exactly what Sanderson was talking about in his rant about set up and payoff.
Even if Rand was as good as he was in book 7, it would be better for him to just kill them with the one power than a sword fight.
@@christianrapperExcept he doesn't have good control of the power in book 2 and is clearly more comfortable fighting with the sword than the power because that's how he chooses to fight Ishamael as well. He continues fighting with a sword he conjures out of thin air for several more books. There is a whole theme in the books about not being solely reliant on the one power. We see it with both Rand and Nynaeve at critical junctures. The various dualities of Rand are what make him one of the best fantasy characters.
Plus, having him easily dispatch like 8 soldiers at once with the power while also showing him unable to break the shielding from a single Aes Sedai or do other basic things is just about as incongruous as having him fight with a sword despite not showing sword training.
Egwene putting on an a'dam bracelet while wearing a collar...wrong! Moiraine destroying a couple dozen Seanchan ships with the Power...wrong! Ishamael standing still and firing attacks into Egwene's shield when we know he can teleport short distances instantly...wrong! Rand, Moiraine and Lan following Lanfear into the Ways...wrong! Ingtar and Loial just showing up with the Horn...wrong! Mat being able to fight repeatedly with his make-shift ashandarei wherein he tied the dagger to it with a single piece of cloth which he was able to rip with his hands...wrong! The dagger turning into a light saber to open a door and the chest with the Horn...wrong! That's about 1/10 of the total list.
The fact that so many mistakes went unnoticed by a supposedly professional team is shocking. I believe that in a few years, when we look at this serie, we will see how average it has always been. It's a shame because the actors are incredible
Signs that the show is nearing it's cancellation and the writers are done😂
stop your whining ffs
Half of the above I might agree with but the post looks more like a lot of complaining for the sake of complaining. Rand and Ishamael fighting in the sky or all the bubbles of evil that occur throughout the series are weirder than any of the choices the show has made mentioned above.
agreed@@cairhieningent
Random thought about the Rand and Elayne moment. Rand looks up at the pretty girl illuminated the sun and asks "Who are you?". Maybe it is because he is thinking wow what a hot girl. But maybe he is thinking I am about to die and all of the sudden an angel that looks kind of like both my mother and stepmother is looking down at me.
I watched the episode with a few non-book reader friends. Here's a list of their questions. I had no answers for them...
1: Why did Lanfear take Moiraine and Lan if they were "dead weight"?
2: Why didn't Lanfear just teleport with Rand to Flame if they were in "such a hurry"?
3: When did Rand learn to channel?
4: How do a handful of kids make enough smoke to obscure an army?
5: Did the army trample over those poor kids?
6: Why are they riding a cavalry into a city so easily?
7: What happened to the horses?
8: Where is the Seanchan army?
9: How can Egwene pick up a collar to harm her sul'dam when she couldn't pick up a pitcher of water to harm her sul'dam?
10: Why is Egwene more powerful than the Dragon Reborn...is she really the Dragon?
11: If the dagger can melt things, how do they carry it around? Do you control its power with your mind?
12: Are the Forsaken this stupid in the books too?
13: Why does Rand drop to his knees like a wet rag when he gets shielded, but Moiraine went all season shielded and was able to move just fine?
14: Is Rand this useless in the books too?
15: What was the point of Elayne and Nynaeve going through their whole plan to free Egwene? That was useless.
16: I thought Nynaeve could channel when she was mad or scared?
17: Why do the main characters always run into each other conveniently in huge cities?
18: So umm...why are the Aiel with Perrin?
19: What are the rules to the magic? It seems all over the place.
20: Aes Sedai can channel from miles and miles away?
21: How did they shield Rand from miles away?
22: If Moiraine could have channeled a dragon to "fulfil prophecy" and proclaim the Dragon Reborn, why haven't the Aes Sedai done way earlier?
23: Holy CRAP Moiraine is more powerful than the Forsaken?
24: Why did that Forsaken guy let Rand walk up slowly and put a sword through him? If he can create illusions of himself and "blink" away, why would he let himself be stabbed?
25: Why is Rand grabbing the blade of the sword like an idiot instead of the pommel?
26: Wasn't a Wisdom a healer? Why did Nynaeve push a thumb-sized arrow through Elayne's leg with the fletching still on?
27: How can Elayne walk like it was just a scratch? Then climb a tower?
28: If Egwene is powerful enough to hold off a Forsaken, why can't her and Moiraine defeat one together? Or a group of 5 Aes Sedai?
29: How did all those trebuchets get across the wide open desert to the city walls without ever being noticed? Where were they being hidden?
Anywho, my non-book friends were super confused by the gaping plot holes, lack of understanding about the magic system, and dumb villains. They were too busy rolling their eyes at all the contradictions and plot holes. All my book reader friends were just cringing the whole time as every one of Rand's epic moments was stolen by a Mary Sue Egwene.
Season 1 taught me to send my book brain to another room while we sit down to watch the episodes. Once I got out of that mindset, I started enjoying everything so much more. Even S1 doesn't bother me nearly as much now as it did on my first couple of times through it. Sure, there are things that I miss from the books, but at the end of the day I'm fine. The show is giving me moments and those moments in S2 hit hard for me.
Nynaeve didn't do anything in E8, but we built her up so much in S1 that we had to bring her down for her arc to actually happen. If we let her ignore her block every time stakes are raised then she effectively has no block at all. We needed her to be in a position where it is crucial for her to channel and then....can't. It's a frustrating moment, with horrible timing, but it's a moment we needed to show how important it is for her to get through that block. Without this, breaking her block will fall flat.
With Nynaeve blocked, someone has to heal Rand, and Egwene is holding up the shield that's keeping them all alive. Book-Elayne might suck at healing, but that hasn't been mentioned for Show-Elayne, and she's the only other channeler up here right now. The meet cute could have been better in another setting, but it is what it is. The only real problem I have with their meeting is that we've held on too long and too strongly to Rand and Egwene being a thing, so non-readers just saw him making eyes at another woman while saving his girlfriend.
Mat's line, up to the blowing of the horn has been boring/disappointing/frustrating. Sure, the ashandari in the show isn't what any of us were expecting, but it was still a cool moment that fits his roguish personality, and then him blowing the horn and getting memories back through that, that was a powerful moment. I think it's a confusing moment for non-readers because they didn't foreshadow any of that at all (or him losing memories to start with), but as a reader seeing that moment was epic. The book weapon is cool, but the weapon being /that/ weapon doesn't change anything in the overall story.
Uno being a hero isn't a thing that mattered to me either for or against. I think it helps the non-readers to understand the horn brings back dead people. Viewers have no idea who any other hero is, and that's a bit of a shame, but we have the rest of the series to answer that question. As a reader, we know less than 30 of the heroes tied to the horn, so I see no reason to be bothered by it. Whether he was heroic enough in this life or not changes nothing about his heroism in previous lives that tied him to the horn in the first place. Uno could just as easily be a reborn version of Gaidal Cain rather than always-Uno.
With Perrin, I'm fully on board with the season of walking being a bit of a let down, but I think people are forgetting the letter than he wrote, back in E1 or E2, that Egwene/Nynaeve read and then Liandrin reads to Mat. Go watch that scene and then look at Perrin on the tower with the shield. It fell flat on my first watch, but when I rewatched the whole season, that scene filled the gap for me and I appreciated the shield on the tower more.
I agree with you about Nynaeve.’s arc. But A few more lines could have helped a lot. If she had yelled at Seta that she didn’t want to be doing it. If she had actually channeled through Seta then freaked out at what she was doing. All in two lines. That would have helped a lot. I liked the meet cute with Elayne, it’s pretty much how they met in Camlyn. And it was humorous. All that glow. Perrin and the shield was straight out of his letter to Nynaeve and Egwene and I laughed with delight. Did it make sense? Who cares. Ta’veran!
I loved the Turoc Indy Jones moment. There was just no set up for Rand the big blade master. That will come in S3 with Lan and then Calindar. Yes, there should have been a bigger moment with Ishy for sure, but not much bigger. Rand can’t blow his wad at the end of EVERY season, so just a bit bigger. I liked the heron and the dragon though. The dragon was a bit campy but I liked that too. I liked that there was a mysterious additional stream of fire coming from the city. Lanfear? Hey, it was so much fun. This isn’t cancer research, it’s a fantasy!
You and I are the only people I have seen mention that letter. I loved that call back.
@@kathryncainmadsen5850 I went back to watch the banner scene. I don't see any fire coming from the city, so I don't think Lanfear had anything to do with it. Moiraine channels 3 lines of fire in her second weave, and then redirects the fire she used to burn the ship, pulling the four lines together to make the dragon. Take another look and drop me a timestamp if I still missed something!
My least favorite part about the last two seasons is the attribution of Rand’s epic moments and climaxes to Nyneave, Egwene, and Morraine. Simultaneously, I feel like they’ve focused too much on giving these characters “girls get it done” moments, that it hasn’t really flushed any of them out. These decisions don’t make the show objectively or inherently bad, but definitely different enough that my favorite part of the books, the chosen ones/ Ta’Veren theme has been nullified. I didn’t think they were going to have Rand fighting in the Sky, or give Perrin his chance to carry the banner, but even Mat’s involvement felt rushed and flat. This is controversial, but I can’t help but attribute these artifacts to a writers culture in Hollywood who wants female characters to take a larger role.
Plus they break all the show rules (forget the books) such as the sul'dam-damane relationship, the three oaths, power levels, Shadar Logoth dagger etc. to do it.
Hi! I love and appreciate your content. Thanks for what you do! I also love your gray shirt you're wearing in this video. Where can I buy one like it? Thanks in advance!
Strapping the dagger to the shaft shows dominance over that temptation of a darker path. Keeping it around but using it for something he decides (not it), and to fight for the light at that, is badass.
You’ve just made all of that up. Which is the biggest problem with the show.
The DIY lightsaber will fall off the stick in 5 minutes 😅
My two biggest issues is the show playing fast and loose with the magic rules they establish is a huge problem, and imperfect/unsatisfying endings. ( what was with the fire dragon and WHYYYY was Lan and moiraines link cut off if she was only shielded!?!?)
Originally I also agreed that the show feels to much like loosely connected vignettes with few arcs and I wonder how much I will want to return to it. the more I think of it… when the show linked to season 1 it really did hit its highs. Rand and Logaine, Perrin and Valda, Nyneaves journey in the doors with lan, and by far the best writing; fixing Matt leaving everyone and using that to give him the most (only? Maybe egwene tho) satisfying arc. So as these writers get more to draw on in their show the more potential the show has for this turning of the wheel.
(Beyond that the two Forsaken we see are A+++ so give the casting the director a raise)
Moiraine "cut off" or masked her bond with Lan last season, to prevent him following her and Rand into the Blight. After the confrontation with Ishamael, Lan asked her to unmask the bond. Moiraine told him she couldn't do it, because she could no longer channel.
@@matiasdevaglia4541 Yes, but the issue there is, when she was unshielded they were no longer bonded, she had to rebond with him on the beach... unless that was supposed to be her unmasking it.
@@pedanticperson1149About 5 minutes too long is what that was
@@matiasdevaglia4541no the bond was severed. That is why in this episode they rebonded. First of all, you do not lose a bond when you're shielded. Second, you're right she only masked the bond in s1. And third, if the bond was severed, we saw what happens if that's the case in s1 with steppin, Lan had 0 of the same symptoms l
@@articus8751 Pfft, the writers don't even know their own rules. I assume they don't have any and just roll with a "what would be a cool scene here?!?!". I mean why does Rand drop to his knees every time he's shielded from the one power as if it prevents him from moving? Moiraine's shield held no physical limitations.
I interpreted Egwaine's shield as the culmination of her experience, holding out under a constant assault.
But it was also the only part I actually liked about that final showdown, so i might just be holding onto that to not end up entirely disappointed.
Daniel - I've been a fan of your work here on CZcams for some time now. Just wanted to take a moment to thank you for the hard work you put into these videos. That said, I have the fortunate experience of having read the books a dozen times and watching the show with someone who hasn't read them yet. I will say that I agree with most of your opinions, and my friend who's watching it with me seems oblivious to most of the criticisms we have. He is thoroughly enjoying the experience, liked season 2 much better than season 1, and is very much looking forward to season 3. It's hard to imagine how I would react to the show if I hadn't read the books. There are things I know I would still like, and things I feel certain I'd still have problems with. But I'm guessing most of your audience has read them, so keep on keeping on!
On the topic of Rand beating Turok in the books, it can be explained by the fact that he's regaining the memories of Lews Therin, who was more than likely a master swordsman and was able to tap into his skills when fighting Turok, much like he did with the One Power in EotW.
It's still stupid. Lost memories and tavern are incredibly lazy narrative tools. In world plot armor is still plot armor.
@@davidbowles7281 It’s written in a way that makes sense to the plot. Jordan builds it up slowly and doesn’t just hand it out abruptly. Rand goes through a transformation into the dragon by slowly regaining his memories and powers, but also practice. We’ve seen that in book 2 with him training with Lan. His memories probably activated around that time and supplemented his current training.
@@ArchlordZer0 I still think its a poor narrative mechanic, I don't care how much he builds it up. Rand should have lost that sword fight. I don't like the reincarnated character trope anymore.
@@davidbowles7281 Have you read the book series? It's literally the central plot-point of the Wheel of Time. If you don't like the trope, then how can you actually like Wheel of Time? Also, it was written in the 90s. I can't think of many fantasies before it that used this trope.
Also one of the most important parts was that Turok was pretty much destroying Rand until rand used the flame in the void technique Tam taught him when he was a kid and he practiced a lot in so he had a foundation for the right mindset and awareness for becoming a blademaster way before he even met Lan and its also very possible that that technique has some synergy with saiding and gave him extra awareness of the surroundings
Glad you’re able to enjoy it Dan!
I’ve just never been able to “flip the switch” and ignore how little the writers seem to think of the source material. Every time I try to watch this show all I can think is “that’s wrong”. I don’t think it’s for me.
I love the show and the books. A faithful adaptation this is not, but it has all of the feels of WoT and many of us book fans are loving it.
@@DiceMustFlow It doesn't feel like it at all
I'm in agreement with you at most points. I'm not mad about the sword fight being dropped and them Indiana Jonesing it. In this story he hasn't really trained at all, if he had fought with his sword, it wouldn't have made any since. Even if Nynaeve couldn't channel, as a wisdom, she should know how to handle an arrow in someone's leg. And she did't handle that well at all. Why not break the shaft rather than pull all the fletching through? Why not wrap the wound? SOMETHING. I get they are playing with the power dynamics a bit, but Egwene squaring off a forsaken for that long really minmizes the threat of the Forsaken. A few seconds, if he was surprised, MAYBE. It means a lot more when they talk about how powerful she is, and then have her easily defeated by a Forsaken, really shows their power. Even if Nynaeve had managed to channel and linked with her, at this point they are not skilled enough, or powerful enough. The background actors weren't even needed in the 2nd part, wouldn't all the innocent people have left that area by now? The editing of the tower lead up really bugged me, for the same reasons it bothered you. It feels like they took all of Rand's development into the dragon away. Hell, anyone can easily shield him apperently. I wasn't upset with Mogeden really, could be an interesting take on the character.
Small thing but I'm with you on the people cheering when they see the dragon thing. First of all, people are not supposed to know what a dragon looks like at this point. It could be some evil chanelling about to burn everything down as far as they are aware. Even if we let that go and assume everyone is familiar with the prophesies and imagery of the dragon, seeing the Dragon proclaimed means there's a potentially mad man who can channel up there (something everyone is very afraid of) AND it means the last battle is coming. What exactly are they cheering for? I was expecting shock, panic, people running away. It was so so stupid
This season I memorized the name of the “wisdom” and the protagonist’s “love interest”. Not yet how to write them.
I don’t know. Most of the story and the chearacters and the lore are hard to understand as a non-reader. I felt most connected to Lanfear and Elayne (not sure how to spell the name) as characters.
Rosamund Pike is a wonderful actress.
Those are my hot takes 😅
The Wisdom is Nynaeve, and the "love interest" is Egwene. Lanfear and Elayne are both spelled right.
A 6/10 is too generous in my opinion for this episode, it was a mess. The cast are all great, they do a really good job with what they have to work with but everything else feels so shallow and lazy I can't help but feel super disappointed. This story deserves much better than what seems to be someone halfassing it, this episode is an easy 4/10 for me and the whole season is maybe a 6/10 with a hard carry by the cast, I would expect to see everyone with really buff shoulders next season.
That's the thing for me. I'm a book fan who despises the show but I love the cast for the most part. 12 episodes and writers and a show runner who don't hate the story could've made this amazing. Ob well.
I really appreciate your mentioning the extras behind the scenes "walking like they're going to Target" (probably not exact quote, sorry). My husband has done a bunch of extra work on TV and some films, and he made that point a lot of times. Thank you. Extras do what they're told to do. They're set dressing, but need to appear natural, except they depend on the director (second director, assistant director, whomever) for what is needed. Once, my husband was told to nibble at food in a scene, but he said it was so cold and stale, yet it was a scene in a high class restaurant so he had to fake that it was gourmet goodness. (Sigh.)
Love your channel btw Dan. I haven't read the books (I plan on eventually reading them) and I actually really enjoyed this episode. Hope you're not too jealous, haha.. though you definitely brought some faults to my attention
Season was good overall, but I wish their time more wisely in the beginning so the ending didn’t feel so rushed
I've been wondering about this. Do they have a certain amount of plot progression allotted to each episode, and it's down to individual episode directors to determine how their chunk of plot is handled? Under this format cutting something inane like Lan's p!ssing scene wouldn't have given them an extra few minutes in the finale. Regardless the show has problems with pacing, too much extraneous stuff early on, and too much jammed in towards the end.
Hard disagree on Season 2 being good at all. If you compare it to any other successful fantasy show, the writing is abysmal. No idea where we suddenly only compare the series to itself and walk away.
@@Dooger414viewership dropped by 60%, tells you all you need to know. The people who keep praising the very minimal improvements in the writing don't represent the majority of the audience.
When the heroes of the horn showed up, my mom asked if those were the gods of this show? My dad said, must be. So, no, I don’t think the heroes of the horn were explained very well 😂
Casual's are always going to be confused by things in a high fantasy setting. They probably think the Seanchan serve the Dark One, right?
@@stephengrant4841 Not their fault AT ALL with how terribly everything is explained in this show.
As someone who hasn't read the books, I think you're right that the final episode was much more enjoyable. I definitely still had my issues (soldiers just randomly appearing in places, Egwene holding off a Forsaken for so long, and lots of character moments falling flat were absolutely issues for me as well) but I think it was easier to stomach. One thing I was thinking especially in the later parts of the season is that Rand feels more like a maguffin than a character, which doesn't bother me too much since he's one of the less interesting members of the cast to me, but I can absolutely see it being annoying since he seems to have a lot more going on in the books.
Yeah, I am wholly with you about them needing more episodes to really get the story done. For the Matt part, and the horn blowing, to me it felt a bit like still stitching together Matt back into the story after the issues with filming the last season, as if the meat of the story there is missing but overall the way they used Matt in the last episode, it kind of works for me to see why we have the guy in the show at all and bring him fully into the story for the future.
I wholly agree about the Rand "fight" making sense - there is just no chance Rand would have any chance against a master swordsman and it makes huge sense to show him finally USING that enormous power he has and has only recently realised he has and can utilise to get to his goal - saving Egwain.
For the scene on the tower - I was really wondering during most of that "fight" why they did not get Nineve there to support the power of that shield - it would have make it make far more sense that then Rand would be healed by the Elayne since Egwain supported by all of Nineves power and heck a "magical shield" would be saving them from being blasted into obvlivion.
There was a comment about shields overlapping strengthen the whole, which Perrin wrote in a letter to Egwyne and Naenyve. This, perhaps, is reinforced by that scene towards the end with possible magical abilities since it was gifted by spectral Uno.