I QUIT my academic job. Here are three signs you should too.
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- Looking for a sign it’s time to quit your job? In this video I share the signs it was time for me to move on from my tenure track academic job. If you’re thinking of quitting, this video explains how to minimize risk so you can be your best self.
Quitting your job is scary, and it helps to know you’re not alone.
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Twitter: / cherylmhurst
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// About me
Hi, I’m Cheryl. I want everyone to stop doing things they hate.
I’m an organisational psychologist with a PhD in inequality at work.
Leave a comment with any videos you’d like to see to improve your university or work life.
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Introduction
00:40 Sign 1: Pointlessness
01:35 Burnout
02:00 Sign 2: justifying your unhappiness
04:10 Sign 3: Running someone else’s race
05:35 Finances
06:02 Quit for the right reasons
06:42 Talk to someone
I stayed a postdoctoral associate and adjunct instructor until my late thirties. Leaving academia was hard but once I did it my real life started. Best thing that I did.
I’m so happy it worked out for you! Good for you
90% of people in academia will relate to this
90%? Surely not 90% of tenure track faculty. I teach 7 hours per week for 30 weeks each year. And I mostly teach courses that I've taught many times before and always on a subject that I love. That's pretty standard for the humanities at an R1 university. Why would I give that up?
That’s so great that you enjoy it!! I understand the 90% sentiment though, when you dislike your job it can make you feel like everyone does. I’m sure it was just a flippant number but if you enjoy your work definitely hold onto it!
@@cherylhurst : Thanks for your comment. I don't wish to pry into your personal life, but I'm curious to know if you're still happy that you left your lectureship eleven months later. Don't you miss having close to four months off over the summer?
Of course, as I'm sure you know, you're supposed to spend your summers engaged in research. So if you're not excited about research, I can see why summers wouldn't exactly seem like "close to four months off."
@@davidbrick6325 I’m not sure where you work or what academics you speak to but there’s no “summers off”.. during the summer is when you do research and grants, and often still dissertation work. The only difference is that students aren’t there for July and august, and even then, they are if you do masters or phD supervision. But I’m definitely still very happy and will do a “one year later” video!
@@cherylhurst : I'm glad to hear that you're still happy. That's the important thing.
I was speaking of higher education in the US. I submit final grades no later than mid-May and begin teaching again at the start of September. In the intervening time, I almost never write grant proposals, because they're no fun and not essential in the humanities, where research doesn't require much money. I do spend a big portion of my summers researching and writing on topics that interest me, but that's what I'd do if I were rich and didn't have to work. Plus I can take a break whenever I want. So it feels like four months off.
Still fighting for a permanent position.
Earned over a million in grants over 4 years since my PhD. Published plenty. Created new collaborations with 3 different universities (and an internal one). Created and taught a new course.
Turned down for positions given to people 6 years my junior straight out of their PhD. No papers. No grants. Correct ethnicity and/or gender.
Kinda done with it if im honest. Kinda really fucking done with it.
That sounds absolutely awful. I’m so sorry you’ve had to go through that. Do you have a mentor or someone you trust that you can have a really honest conversation with? I have two friends who experienced this - one stuck it out and now has a great job in academia, one left and now has a great job at a tech company. I hope it works out for you❤️
@@cherylhurst
With regards to a mentor, not really. My boss is at the end of his career, an *extremely* talented man, but I don't think he understands the modern social academic setting very well.
With regards to jobs, it's all rolling dice, quite literally. Was chatting to the vice-rector of a European institute recently about this topic and he admitted that they hired a full professor through a dice roll. They couldn't decide between three candidates so they numbered them and rolled dice. No joke.
It's just hard to jive relentless excessively hard work (and the fun mental maladies that come with it) up against the reality that academia is utterly arbitrary. It kills a lot of great researchers.
I left Academia lest year and are now in the industry. I have lived in burnout, feeling of meaninglessness for years but feeling there is nothing awaits for me outside Academia. I was told my contract would not be prolonged week after I came back from my Mother's funeral. Started applying outside Academia but it was hard as my CV wasn't right, but got help and find a job. Taking entry level in late 30s is hard but better than meaningless, post-doc like jobs in Academia. I got federal fellowship, I was involved in federal grants, got 38 papers in PubMed but felt like loser. Still feel all after my PhD is a waste of time and need to live with feeling I blunder away 9 years of my life. I have no one to socialize but I have stable job and with experience can get better job in better location and not blasted countryside I hate.
I was applying for jobs in major cities but so many years of Academia did not help. Now I started new chapter in my life and at least I am no longer wasting my life. To all reading this comment: leave Academia ASAP. No matter how hard you work, most of you will never get tenure-tract position. No one cares what you know but who do you know. Academia job market is extremely completive and 10% of PhD graduates has chance to stay. Don't make mine or other people's mistake. Leave Academia, think how your skills will be transferable, what you can add. Academia is toxic environment of lowly paid, unstable, fixed-term contracts. It is fine for those in 20s but this is all. Academia freedom and flexibility is not worth your mental health. I waited too long. Don't repeat my mistakes.
I’m sorry your experience was so awful. It can truly feel like you’re entirely alone when you don’t know where you’re going next. It sounds like you’re starting to get things back on track though. Don’t worry about starting entry level at 30. I did - and now I’m progressing quickly. It does get better!
@@cherylhurst Thank you for kind words. I am starting a new, more stable chapter in my life. You are right it's never too late to make a change. I am open to wait awaits me in my current job, let's see what will happen in 5 years.
Best of luck.
good luck!
@@pauljones5066 thank you
Can you tell a little bit more about how your transition ended up and details of your new job. I'm considering transitioning
Oh boy... I relate too much with everything you brought up :/
Edit: thanks for sharing your experience, I cannot tell you how grateful I am to hear someone else feel this way
Sorry you feel this way but I hope it works out for you! I can honestly say I’m the happiest I’ve ever been now, I can’t believe I ever thought academia was for me 😅 I’m basically in a 9-5 (but more flexible) and the structure is exactly what I need right now
Before starting college, I spent 6 years in the US Marines (most of that time infantry). I was young; I thought I could do anything! It didn't hold a candle to grad school, though. The competitiveness, the brownnosing, the backstabbing, every waking hour taken up by research. I discovered that I hated teaching, though, so I dropped out and went on to do other things. I still have friends who went on to finish their Ph.D, and then teaching, and talking to them is like talking to a strict religious practitioner - academia is all they know, their only point of reference. All I can think is, "How did I get so lucky?"
Yea I’ve experienced that a bit too! And people thinking I sold out because I got tired of it. Hopefully it worked out for you!
Imagine your journey, except having terrible, bad psycho anti mentors... this has been the journey for me... I think I have been surviving just to prove them wrong... which is wrong... I love science but I don't respect the way the system works... and specially the injustice and the rampant lack of shame that many of they actors present every day when they are micromanaging, harassing (work and sexually -yess), passive aggressiveness and open aggression... anyways im still here... Thanks for sharing. you are very brave.
I know this feeling.. the system is broken and makes it difficult to respect it.
@@cherylhurst I Finally finished my PhD and although officially now I’m unemployed, last week I decided not to pursue a postdoc, but instead, to quit academia… and I’m feeling good!
Yep, totally. I didn’t give a s*#t about what I did or published while I was a postdoc. So glad that I left academia. The time to make a choice is always now, not later.
Totally agree! Happy you found something that works for you
Omg totally relate. I am now on 4th year of phd and the only thing left to do is to write my thesis. I think about dropping out everyday, however first I decided to go on a therapy and then decide. Guys Keep fingers crossed for me!!
Ah sorry you’re feeling that way! I really enjoyed my phd and writing my thesis. Sometimes I miss the days of just focusing on one thing - I hope you start to enjoy it more or that it goes quickly for you!!
I can relate to it.
I left the industry in 2014 and started pursuing a master's in India and Phd degree in the US.
Looking at my advisor's condition.
I decided to shift to Industry again with better perks and pay packages this time.
I hope it works for you 😊
Got it. I'm there now. Sort of quiet quitting.
Sorry it’s been so long for me to respond, CZcams took a back seat to my new job! I hope you find something you enjoy, inside or outside academia. It really does get better once you find something that feels valuable
I absolutely relate to the apathy part. This video showed up for me just as I'm about to take the plunge of quitting my academia job, especially since I've been recently denied promotion after years of working as an adjunct instructor. Thank you for your honesty and insight!
Good luck!! You’ve got exciting things ahead
I have been an MD for 20 years. After the pandemic, my job became unbearable. My life was heavily affected by the new conditions in which it was supposed that a doctor and medical researcher had to work: no rights, continued psychological abuses, no respect. I started a psychological consult, and it helped me to regain myself. I am a human, have my rights, and deserve respect: if, after 20 years, this is not clear, it is time to leave. I have saved during my career, so money was not an issue. I resigned on July 1st, the best day in my life. I will remember forever my responsible screaming at me: "You cannot do this! (plus various insults)" and me smiling and telling her: "I already did; have good times." I graduated in philosophy in less than a year. Now, I am a writer for an excellent philosophical magazine. I am also a consultant for an ADV company, where my skills are appreciated. I do not work more than I can: I am trying to work the less I can. It is not easy to quit, but if you reach the "enough is enough" point, it is the best decision you can make. We are not a job; we are human beings.
Wow I’m so happy this worked out for you!! It’s not worth living an unhappy life. Congratulations 😊
Great video!!! Could you make a video on how you transitioned from academia to industry? How long did it take you to find a job you want, and how did you go about applying, networking, etc.?
Definitely will! Been so busy I’ve not made any videos lately 😅 I applied to about 10 different jobs honestly, but only took about 3 weeks to get it. I didn’t network just worked really hard on all applications to make them individual to the company
Oh, you exactly described how I feel about my employment in academia. I had all the feelings but couldn't find the right words, but you captured my feelings exactly. Thank you for this video.
I’m happy it resonated but wish you had a better experience! Good luck with everything
I totally relate, looking forward to see more of your story
It’s too bad you relate but I hope it works out for you too 😊 I’ll be posting an update video soon after 1 year in industry!
This video and others have helped me a lot; great stuff and I look forward to more of your videos!
Thank you!
Very good video! I can really relate to the points even though my situation is quite different. Just speaks for the quality and thought behind all of it 👍
Thanks very much for saying that 😊
Sounds like you have an intuitive mind and ways of making decisions and it works for you. So well done! I am curious what happened to your career next!
Thank you!! I’m setting up my next video now and will connect on LinkedIn too 😊
How does CZcams know that I am struggling with this?
I hate my actual position (Associate professor), I'm not too fond of the papers and the little help the university gives to my research.
But I love my students, and the projects I develop with them.
At this moment, I don't feel burnout, and I still like my job... It is an important job that influences a lot of people.
That’s a rough position to be in. I hope you’ve got some mentors or other close confidants you can talk to about it - see if they have similar sentiments. Worth spending time thinking about what you want. I hope it works out for you!
Excellent! Hope the change do you good.
Thanks, it did indeed!
Crazy times when we have to like ouur jobs and fell great about them... a job is a mean, not a destiny. However, good for you if your live is better now.
Feeling this right now, everything you're saying is stuff I've hit on. However, I'm deeper in than you were- I got tenure just now and can tell you it's MUCH worse the longer you stick around. Salary compression in the academy is brutal and you will actually end up getting paid less as a person with tenure than a brand new hire. And in my university the hierarchies across fields (STEM vs not) mean my department was always getting shit on. Academia operates by entrapping and exploiting- We aren't taught how to prepare our CVs or resumes for non academic jobs and the longer we are there the more the sunk cost becomes. But at the same time, the scale your institution's leverage against increases. By year 10, you've bought a house, would be passed over as overqualified for many transitional positions, and are trying to start a family. All this makes it harder and harder to bail out. And don't get me started on the cult-y vibe around the "life of the mind." I love the flexibility academia has afforded my life, but it's a very, very sick institutional setting for a lot of people.
I’m so sorry to read this.. I completely agree with what you’ve said. I hope you manage to find something that works for you, or at least find a way to really really take advantage of the flexibility (the one thing I miss!)
@@cherylhurst I appreciate it! Your model resume was very helpful, and it's good to hear other ex-academics share their stories because you can't talk to other colleagues since they'll start divesting from you.
You remind me of Brit Marling (essay content and vocal inflections). She "quit" the corporate Wall Street scam and moved to LA to make movies. We all need to take chances. Thanks for sharing your path.
That is my absolute dream! The summer before I quit I was in some made for TV movies and I’m still auditioning for small things here and there, trying out some stand up.. good on her. Thanks!
@@cherylhurst - Have you watched Brit Marling's Brit Marling Georgetown Convocation Speech? It's on CZcams. I highly recommend it. Also, I quit my teaching job in 2015 and spent 3 years making films and working on other projects in San Diego. I had to return to "the grind" but I'm ready to lift off again!
I am planning to leave the academia scam and move into the Wall Street scam. At least I will earn a living where I can comfortably pay for a studio apartment in nyc
Thank you SO much for this video. As an organizational psychology graduate student contemplating leaving academia, this video was immensely helpful and resonated so much.
Oh I’m happy to hear that!! Good luck with your decisions
I left a tenured lectureship in English twenty years ago, for similar reasons. Fortunately, I had also majored in Economics in my first degree, and that got me a job in the Australian Treasury. It took me a couple of years to find an area I liked working in, and I didn't climb the greasy pole--but I was earning more than I had as a senior lecturer in NZ, and as a junior employee I could go home at 5pm.
I bought myself a hammer and saw and built a house, and I spent my evenings reading what I wanted to, rather than marking endless student essays. I've gone on publishing, but only when I had something to say. There were small humiliations, like having your prose edited by illiterates, but I've certainly been much happier having stepped off the pointless hamster wheel.
Academia was still a happy place when I was a student in the 70s and 80s, but once we let the dementors (I mean the managerialists) in, they sucked the life out of it.
Wow sounds like you’re definitely living the good life now, though! Good for you. I hope the other people who have commented on this get to experience some of the good parts of working life like you have. Hope it keeps getting better for you 😊
It worked out well. Once I'd paid off my house, I took a very badly paid adjunct position at the Australian National University, teaching first year English and Philosophy to students doing a foundation year. I loved the teaching and nobody hassled me about research. Covid put a stop to that, and now I'm happily retired--and about to produce a major index to one of Coleridge's longer works!
I work in an university as faculty. I care a shit about what others say or do. I do things my way my time. I dont work on holidays. Thats the only way u can retain sanity in academia.
That seems to be one way to succeed! Really happy you can maintain your sanity that way.
Hi Cheryl thank you so much for sharing this. It is clear, articulate and relatable. I also watched your other video and you keep saying that we should leave for right reason, not only running away from something, which is very true. However, I also have difficulties in articulating what my aim and I want, all I know is just I don't want to be in academia anymore, and that thought started 1.5 year into my PhD (3 years ago) and now I am doing postdoc. In your next video can you talk about it more. How you navigate yourself toward what you want if you are kind clueless about it? Should we check our core value? Should we see the sector in industry? etc. Thank you so much.
Yes I can definitely try to do this! Will motivate me to post another video. Thanks for watching and good luck!
I got my PhD at 39. Along with it, a big mental illness diagnosis. 2 years on, still being advised to apply for postdocs - finding it very hard to simply quit -- the feeling of one more application being all i need to write to get the big break. Meanwhile im anxious and understimulated, and chronically bored. 😢 thanks for the wisdom of this video. 😢
Ah I’m sorry to hear that. I really hope it works out for you! It’s hard but it’ll be worth it in the end.
@@cherylhurst what do you mean, what will be worth in the end? Applying for postdocs, waiting for his breakthrough that most possibly will never come?
I think you should reconsider the well intention of those people who are advising you to apply for another postdoc. Academic system runs on the flesh and blood of the cheap postdoc work, you know.
Am quitting soon too This really resonates with him The system is corrupted especially in publishing
I’m sorry if you’ve been having a rough time. It was the best decision for me to leave, and I’m so much happier for it. I hope you find the same 😊
I take my job in academia very seriously … I got m my full professorship and my teaching media is also 100. But my challenge is that the environment of corporate politics hurt me. Jealously since I got my professorship by few people has hurt me. So many narcissistic people but I assume they are everywhere? I have a hard time to say to abusive people to Stop a lot given to how I built my career myself with no help and it became really traumatic and this is not easy to overcome. I love academic work but not the corporate life. Unlike what others wrote here I am not into funding applications or networking. I am pretty a scholar with understanding industry and good teaching. That is why I love my work and corporate stuff are hurting. I m afraid many people in academic environments must leave and leave the place for people who are into this job. Some people have no prospect and don’t leave and cause corporate politics. I always encourage my students to just do what you love and be good in that.
Totally agree! Need to find what works for you!
omg, I can't relate more.
Hope it works out for you! It certainly worked out for me and I’m much happier 😊
The pointlessness is really horrible. It is a really bad sign when you realise that the paper that you are writing is for only one reason, and that is to add to your c.v. The research isn't interesting, it doesn't solve a real problem, it just is there because you have to have an output. Then it gets rejected, and you have to make major changes to this paper that you didn't want to write in the first place. Several people I know left to go to industry, and they now work on things that have a purpose. I retired.
Ah ya I totally see that perspective and felt that way. Some people don’t and they thrive in academia but definitely not me (or us it seems!)
I wasnt an academic but was a corporate lawyer for many years. I'm now chasing a career as an electronic nusic producer, so a lot of the reasons you gave for leaving i strongly resonate with. Thanks for the video!
Wow how exciting!! I’m doing something similar alongside my corporate role (something more aligned to the arts/creativity) and it’s so much more fulfilling. Good luck with it all!
Love this video! And wow the thing that your friend said was exactly the same sentence my brother told me when I finished PhD. Talking to someone we trust is very important indeed.
Thanks Som! It’s true that our friends sometimes see things we don’t. Happy you’re figuring it out now rather than later 😊
The apartment is a huge plus, good find. I'll agree w/ most of what she's saying as long as you actually do deep work and go external first. Then go internal. The temper and flare ups are a good unhealthy sign that you need to leave yes. I'm a little resentful of her for being able to talk to her parents about this lol. I can't. Does anyone else have "simple" parents and feel that way? I'm changing careers to tech and because there are already a few tech people in my fam, they're not really "impressed" because I wasn't one of the first to get into it. I hate it lol
Hey! I get your point about my parents, I’m really really lucky in that sense. I hope you can find other people to speak to and maybe even get some replies here of people who are in the same position? Reddit is a great place for specific leaving academia advice (there’s lots of nasty people there you need to ignore) but I did read Reddit a lot to see how other people handled it.
Also there’s a few academics in my family (not my parents) so when I got my phd it wasn’t that big a deal. I wouldn’t worry about being the first into tech or not, just do what’s right for you!
I am in a casual academic research job ATM. I got it after 10 months of being unemployed. It is important research on Covid and satisfying intellectually. I would swap for a more secure job but nobody will let me move out of the university sector.
That is tough- secure jobs are hard to come by. I hope it works out for you!
I have a question. What you said resonates with me. However, your retirement pland could be possible thanks to your academic job in the first hand? salary, other non financial benefit, social capital etc. Can u elaborate on that?
Good questions - I can make a video to elaborate. There’s three things I considered, 1. I didn’t think being miserable for 50 years was worth a retirement plan one day,
2. My new job does have good benefits (I’m in the U.K. and work at a bank, so the benefits aren’t bad),
3. My potential future earnings are higher now than they were in academia and im a good saver. I feel confident that I can continue to earn more now and invest for retirement, whereas the cap in academia is lower… hope that helps!
Wow this is so relatable. Have been feeling the exact same way recently in academia. Thank you for sharing!
Oh sorry you’re feeling the same but I hope it works out for you 😊
I guess for me it was the opposite. I remember finishing my masters and turning onto the freeway to drive home and thought "Finally, I'm free, fuck that place I'm going somewhere else for a PhD and..." suddenly I had to pull over, had a panic attack....The panic attacks would appear every time I thought of going back for a PhD afterwards, even another school, as I knew my supervisor would try to sabotage my efforts [as he had promised he would]. I decided not to go back. It is strange, I can handle meeting horrific people and work conditions outside of academia, but I don't hold others to the same standard. Academia for me is arguably worse because if anything I find most of the people involved the most brutally selfish, self-promoting, and unapologetically arrogant pricks I have ever had to deal with. The few I met that were good people didn't matter, they rarely have any power, as the system is sick AF.
Yep they're the worst ppl on the planet. They view themselves as Gods
Ugh that sounds awful. I had my first panic attack during my phd. I’m happy you made the right choice for you!
@@cherylhurst Thanks! and thanks for sharing, it helps many of us more than you can know.
It's been more than three years since I quit my permanent teaching position and moved to another city for settling down. It felt really good initially to quit and I looked forward to a new set of opportunities. But, in the competitive market, I haven't found another position. I remain jobless, very distracted and anxious, unable to progress and produce good academic articles. With a PhD in Humanities, I don't think if there is anything interesting in the industry for me. Hopefully I'll get new perspectives on my current situation soon. Some of the comments here are, and your video of course, is comforting and making me less guilty for resigning.
I really hope it works out for you - it can be a scary time. The market is very competitive and you might not find something you love right away but can learn a lot by trying new things!
Your words mean a lot, thanks!@@cherylhurst
Wow, great video.
one gets paid so much less in academia and has to work way harder, this is a place needs a lot of passion for the job itself and one can afford the low return. it is not for everyone.
I worked in academia for 20 years, and left it 4 years ago. I would say academic career takes certain type of person, who is good at applying funding and networking, which I am none of both.
Very true! hope you prefer your job now!
Academia no longer rewards deep thinkers, it is mostly networkers who get rewarded.
So what did you do instead? What sort of job did you go to after?
I'm not in academia per se, but I studied for 5 years to be a teacher (high school), and I'm 2,5 years into the profession at the moment. Feelin' a bit disenchanted, lacking motivation etc. I feel like I wouldn't want to stay here for the rest of my life. And I don't want to become one of those unmotivated teachers that make school seem pointless for the students...
However, I don't know that I have a back-up plan. I don't really know what I would do with my time if I quit. I wouldn't have direction.
So I'm curious. When you quit your job, did you have a plan whatsoever?
I ended up going into a change management/HR type role. It suits my speciality but obviously different for everyone.
I did have a backup plan - I’d spent a lot of time googling things like “jobs for someone with [insert skill]” and essentially talked to lots of people, looked up career trajectories on LinkedIn - that kinda thing. It requires self awareness to know your skills and then find jobs that align with those. Good luck. I hope it works out for you 😊
I came to academia later in life after having experienced many other jobs. .There is so much to keep you interested in teaching subjects you love. Sometimes we need experiences to appreciate what we have. There are certainly negative points to academia, but, comparatively speaking, an academic position is better than much that is out there,. Keep in mind that people think jobs will fulfill them in some way. This is not the case for any job. Life-satisfaction involves a list of items, most probably.. There are people who go through a PhD and are done with writing papers or research . To that, I would say go into something else. If you like research, academia is a good option. So, I would defend academia to a point, and that is based on the amount of jobs that are far more boring and useless. When you talk about the best part of your day was going to the gym, keep in mind that you had the time to do that. Many do not. Nevertheless, I thank you for the signs that are outlined; they are helpful.
I completely agree! I think academia has some great points and it really works for some people. I also think if I’d had a different job and then come into academia later it would have worked better for me. I definitely agree that work isn’t the only thing that gives fulfilment, but it should make you miserable either! Really pleased you enjoy academia 😊😊
@effy I'm not sure I understand the reply. In academia usually after 10 years in most states, you are vested in the pension system. So, that's a positive I would highlight. Money in the bank. There's a comment below stating that it is really difficult to get a tenure track position. This is absolutely the case., and certainly a negative point. But, if you can figure out how to get ten years of pension credit, even if it accrues on a part-time basis, it is great cash. To your point that it is obvious that career is not everything. People spend time and enormous amounts of cash on becoming "something". , lawyer, doctor, nurse. Academic jobs is the topic of the video; that is what is being discussed.
I imagine a person with a PhD in organizational psychology has the luxury of quitting a tenure track job. There are a number of jobs that could be done in the business world or consulting. Many disciplines don't afford that luxury. Getting a tenure track job is like winning a job lottery. There are very few university teaching jobs compared to the number of PhDs on the job market. Think of many PhD in the humanities and some social sciences. There are not that many options in the real world. Think of a PhD in Classics or Comparative Literature.
I agree completely - academia as a career is no longer fit for purpose and there are too many phds for the number of jobs available. I don’t think we need more phds.
You’re also right that i was very lucky to choose something with obvious transferable skills. I’m very aware of how difficult the job market is. That doesn’t mean people shouldn’t try to find new roles with transferable skills if they’re unhappy.
I can relate but I still love my research for now. I have almost never however seen a post doc with a year of salary saved. It possible to leave without that, scary but possible.
It’s great you love your research! Definitely scary, and for me it was a few years ago and in a cheap city. Not sure I could do it now / in an expensive area
@@cherylhurst also I live in Europe we have an unfortunately deteriorating but very useful, social safety net that can help with the transition.
I lived inside the academia vicious cycle for too long, so I can relate to this
Sorry to hear that.. I hope it worked out for you in the end 😊
What are you doing now instead? I'm working on my PhD in biochem and I'm already feeling like this.. I think I want to go into industry leading a team and working with machines
I work in People now, essentially HR- so very different to before. I have lots of friends who went into STEM roles, computer science, UX, and data science though. Hopefully you can find resources to help you find the right role 😊
Just do it! There's light at the end of the tunnel. There's so much world out there to explore.
Absolutely! 💯
That's so funny. I'm having a reverse situation where there's something inside me nagging "I should be doing academic research!"
Doing Research is great, I miss it sometimes - but doing it professionally isn’t always what it seems
It seems that Academia suffered a strong process of precarization... may be better to do something about it. Unions in other countries also work this sector.
There’s incredibly strong unions at unis in the U.K., they’ve been on strike for this reason on and off for quite some time. I don’t think it’s crazy to want to enjoy your job and to make a decision to get out of a bad one.
@@cherylhurst you mean that there is not possible solution? That's sound sad... I hope Mexico preserve the good conditions that we have in the academy.
Insightful
Have you had a similar experience at all?
Nope. I am still trying to get into a full-tenure track position.
That’s great!! Good luck 😊
Great video, Cheryl. I left academia (history) 20 yrs ago now. I enjoyed my role much more than (from the sound of it) you do, really appreciated many aspects, but I really didn't feel it was the "right" fit at that stage and I was looking ahead thinking, what would I be like in five, ten...yrs if I stay put. I think the demands of the sector have only got worse since then. As regards telling other people: I wouldn't tell any colleauges until you've told your boss. These things have a way of getting around it's known that you're leaving, your position has changed overnight to "departure lounge". Geeky YT q: how do you do the blue "slide in from the left" background with text? I've been trying to find something like this (for Final Cut Pro) for ages, with no success. Is it a plug-in?
Oh yes really good point! I didn’t tell any of my colleagues except those at other institutions who were having similar thoughts. RE the CZcams question.. I actually think this is a plug-in that came with my final cut? If not it’s a free one I downloaded. I’ll have a look at let you know!
@@cherylhurst thanks, would be great if you could :)
As a last-year phd student, I can relate so much to your video. I've been thinking about getting a postdoc job lately, but the idea only makes me even more anxious, and I feel exactly like I am stepping into someone else's race, since I was only starting to consider a postdoc job when my peer students were competing to get one. I constantly feel burnt out, even after a day off or a 12-hour sleep. I had nightmares about mixing my supervisor and a mobster I saw on TV.......I spent more time fixing my mental state than working on my thesis. Now, I decide to find an administrative job instead of an academic job, and I can feel the pressure leaving my body....
Oh I’m so happy to hear that! I hope you have a strong network around you to support you. It can be tough as a transition but your mental health is too important to not work on it 😊
You are smart and brave.
That’s very kind, I’m sure you are too
UGH, you can make the same amount of money as a high school teacher in the US.
When I think of how I acted in high school… you couldn’t pay me enough! 😅
Permanent lectureship?
Yes.. as opposed to a fixed term contract. It’s similar in rank to assistant professor in the USA./Canada. But U.K. doesn’t have the same tenure process.
We follow you on some social media platforms?
I only have CZcams and Twitter 😊 cherylmhurst
Why no one talks good stuff about PhD? Everyone just say this is BA's thing to do. Is there anyone that satisfy?
Definitely! They just aren’t usually on CZcams 😊 also I enjoyed my PhD, just not academia afterward
@@cherylhurst I want to study my PhD in Europe but I am not sure about it cuz many on CZcams are dissatisfy with it. I don't know if I can handle it by myself or not. I was so happy that I am gonna take my PhD in Europe but after such videos I lost my enthusiasm. And I don't know full funding will help me to cover my accommodation and monthly food needs.
@@khl170I enjoyed my PhD a lot - it was hard but I met great friends and learned a lot. If you’re excited you should go for it! Make the right choice for you depending on your career goals 😊
Quit my shitty academic job as well. Thanks to Jordan Peterson, whose wise words gave me the courage to do so.
Glad to hear you’re better off for it!
Pointlessness??!! Of course. THAT is the essence of academia. Burnout and quitting consumes perhaps the majority of people employed in academia-especially at the graduate level. Don't expect creativity or self-respect to be welling up constantly from your work in academia, or your presence there as a PhD student, engaged in studying for that endless thesis.
A lot of kvetching here from somebody who appears to occupy a luxury apartment.
Okay!
Some people are quitters. I prefer to get fired. Then I get fired up!
Yasssssss 🤙
1:13 😅 sameee
The research part is pointless. No one who makes decisions will ever read it. The teaching part, though…
The research part is the most important in terms of progression, but teaching in terms of impact (in my view!)
Nice apartment
Thanks
People who feel the way you describe are not the ones at the top, not the ones doing invigorating ressearch that pushes their discipline forward. You instinctively recognized that you are mediocre as an academic. Your speech here sounds nothing like the words of visionsries, the movers and shakers, in each discipline.
It's good that you left, because you were likely doing more harm than intended in the classroom. It would be better if you recognized that you weren't cut out to be a professor. There is no shame in admitting you chose the wrong career.
More academics need to be reflexive, and analyze their life goals before committing to a career in the scademy. If you have the teaching mindset, and it's truly your passion, you won't wash out--you'll thrive.
Okay!
So you are going around leaving comments on other people's videos too. Hahaha. Oh Mr. Proy33. 😆
It's clear you don't work in academia. Being a university professor is about publishing not about teaching. You get tenure based on points from articles and books and not on points about how good you are as a teacher. If you like teaching more, it's better to choose a highschool or middle school.
Great. So glad to see that rich, beautiful, young people in a high-paying, ivory tower job can just pop right into ANOTHER high-paying job without too much trouble. Meanwhile, at 51, I'm stuck with a car that doesn't run, forced to stay home and NOT work while my rich young millennial spoiled brat narcissist roommate leaves me to feed his dog while he bangs his gf in another state.
I really hope things turn around for you.
@@cherylhurst well, I also just tested positive on a colorectal cancer test a month ago, so I'm doubtful, but I've become vegetarian and I walk 2 hours a day now, so we'll see. Right now, I just hope I have enough for food for this month. $107 left in the bank, so we'll see...
Academia doesn’t value my technical skill set other than teaching ability. Thinking about starting my own company.
Good luck! There’s lots of options outside of academia
2:00 "there are more important things I could contribute to the world" ... by becoming a youtube influencer?
Omg yes!!!!!! With my limited videos and random uploads, this is my life now!!!!!!
Pity she doesnt have a real phd
Yes such a pity 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
The point is: there are TOO MANY PEOPLE engaged in graduate study in the USA and Great Britain. There are too many paid slaves-oops, I meant teaching and research assistants and adjunct instructors-busily engaged in that path to nowhere: NO PROMOTION to something better paying and more meaningful. Graduate school was not designed to absorb, productively and with good reimbusement, the number of people it is now taking in each year. And DON'T EVEN THINK of there being jobs outside of the coil of academia that have some minimal relation to all the years you sat through, and all the work you did in Cinema Studies, Ethno-Queer (that word still is offensive to me; it is GAY) Studies, Art History, History in general, Political Science, Philosophy, Religion, ad nauseum. And do you think that your university is going to move you into some corner office with an Assistant Prof. title plate nailed on its door, a decent salary, a workable teaching schedule, once you finish up your endless PhD? Better bet: buy a lottery ticket and follow the televised winnings.
You seem really passionate about this! Hope your choices work out for you
Sorry, losing focus as u are so beautiful, captivating, and may u get a decent job.
Academia is a religion, the religion of materialism. It has nothing to do with what it is supposed to do: finding Truth.
Cientific research is 100% artificial intelligence
Interesting view
Not all "academies" are equal, if you study engineering, this video is pointless/useless
Great insight thanks so much for your considered and helpful response!!!!!!!!!!!
Academia sucks , def should leave
Good luck!
To be a successful academic , you must be highly idealistic. You must have the thought of ‘one day you will make an impact on the World’ even though this don’t come true in most of the time. Yet at the same time it is this idealistic thought that keeps you going in your research when you publish. When you take out this idealistic goal of ‘making an impact to the world’ , you will end up finding academia pointless where it is only about publishing papers and attaining grants . It’s just like a powerful whale but without a direction compass. Worse still, is that you have other industry jobs pulling you in all sorts of opposite direction that lures you away from academia! Academia is a fun but competitive and yet sometimes toxic industry in certain sense. But it is for the highly idealistic ones who will survive in it.
While I understand your view, This simply isn’t true. In order to survive AND keep your job AND pay rent, you need to be able to publish and get funding. Editors and reviewers don’t care about your ideals.
@@cherylhurst you misunderstood what I wrote above. Long storey short, having ideals is to inject meaning and sustainability. In no way , having ideal means that one does not care about the research output.
You don't need to talk to much, everyone understands how toxic the academia is.
Cool thanks for watching 👍🏻