Why I Quit my Ph.D. Program
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- čas přidán 9. 10. 2019
- thank you so much for watching!!
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My name is Jordanne. I am a 26-year-old LA native living with my long-term boyfriend. I have been involved in the mental health field for the past few years and I am currently in the Masters in Social Work program. I am struggling with my own mental health challenges but trying my best to continually grow and improve my overall well-being. Follow this channel for mental health, career, school, finance, relationship advice, and more. If you want to live your best life, this a great channel for you to watch to help you on your way to doing so :)
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Academia is so toxic. All the hard work to be published in an obscure journal that no one reads.
So true, some labs are just publishing junks!
WORD
@@AdvaiticOneness1Not some... Most of them😂
I left my PhD program yesterday and watching this video is like hearing myself speak. There were certain aspects of the role I loved, like teaching, but the research and the culture of workaholism was not suited for me at all. It was also an incredibly isolating and lonely experience. It was a hard decision to make because I was on a fully funded studentship and I felt like I was letting my supervisor and the department (which I love!) down, but I feel like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders. I hope everything worked out well for you!
good decision and well done you for not wasting years on something you dont want or no longer believe in
Well done, girl~
How did you do that? I mean telling supervisor etc please guide me I have the same situation like you got scholarship was really excited but deep inside I was aware of I could not do it but for the sake of money I got no option but phd scholarship offer now I have no other option left but really messed up in phd can you guide me
@@mano-se2db Honestly, if you know it’s the right decision for you, you just have to do it. I knew I wasn’t happy in my PhD but hadn’t really seriously considered leaving, but I remember waking up on the first day back to work in January and thinking “I don’t want to do this anymore.” So on a whim I sent my supervisor an email saying I wanted to drop out, and as I wrote it I literally felt a weight being lifted off my shoulders.
I would suggest having some kind of backup plan financially because my funding stopped immediately, even though I was persuaded to go on a “leave of absence” for 9 months so I could think things over and didn’t actually leave until after that point.
@@Christiehannah ok dear thanks for telling your detail 🙏
The irony of this experience being a Clinical Psychology PhD program...
I'm about to quit my PhD I worked so hard to get into. The culture in academia is too toxic. I am the most productive between my colleagues but I'm just tired to deal with the power dynamics. I'm working class, working and studying at the same time, I can't do that anymore.
Your video helped me decide. I may apply again in the future but not now
The power dynamics don't change even if you are in another institution, unfortunately
One of my colleagues didn't publish for 8 years, while he developed a revolutionary method. Our old boss let him do it and afterwards everybody was proud to have him around. Nowadays? Not going to happen anymore.
I am currently on the brink of quitting; I am dying from fatigue, anxiety, and depression. I have a clear idea of what I am doing but it is draining my energy.
Follow your heart and don't waste time in something which leads to depression and anxiety. We all have one life to live, enjoy every moment. PhD drains out your precious time.
@@AdvaiticOneness1 Thank you; I really appreciate your response. Stay safe!
Try talking to your supervisor about it. Take 2 weeks off where you rest completely. Don't think about the project during that break. Rest, slow down & take care of your self. After that break, if you still feel like quitting, then it should be seriously considered an option. Whatever you decide, be gentle with your self & good luck
I am at this point in my life. But being an international student and being awarded a funded PhD has introduced so much guilt each time I want to quit. Because I feel like there is no other thing out there for me at the moment. This makes me really depressed.
I was in a very similar position in my first year, going through the same thoughts. Though, during the summer I had found another group/supervisor that was happy to take me on, so I switched. The new work & environment is luckily a much better fit for me, and I am not resenting the effort I put in. Interestingly enough, my overall mood has improved massively as well. I'm wondering if this is something you could do? I got pretty lucky with my change... but who knows?
I am exactly in the same position you put yourself in . I am extremely exhausted and I am thinking of quitting phd
@@vladutz00ify my supervisor is great and the team is good as well. Reason I feel bad for having these feeling 🥺
@@godsperson5571 Ah, I see. Have you considered taking a little break? Here in UK it's possible to intermit your studies&funding for a few months/a year. Maybe that would help if it's possible. Maybe it's accumulated exhaustion.
Thank you for posting. I've worked my whole life to get into a PhD. Even now I'm in 2 labs, TAing extra to help the department, and in the student association, the union, various outreach and science groups etc and I have leadership positions in every single group. I have a niche interest so I never made my own choices. I only had a few options so I just went with whatever worked out. But I've been struggling with depression and anxiety, gaining weight, random crying, can't get anything done. I started therapy. I'm considering leaving with a Masters and that feels me with so much relief to escape this program but then I'm not sure what to do next. Go elsewhere for my PhD? I loved my undergrad and my research there, but everyone talks about how hard and depressing PhDs are. Go for a career? But now I could go literally anywhere that wants a chemist or biologist, whereas before I had 3 cities that I could have worked at. So the choices and deciding what to do with my life feels overwhelming too. I'm happy you found a better fit for yourself and let others know. I hope I can be in that happier space soon, wherever that ends up being!
LOVED your video, I just quit my Ph.D. as well, and have never been happier and more FREE!
I appreciate you honesty telling your personal experiences. I started college at 47 and will graduate Spring 2023. I have been thinking about law school or going into research through a PhD program. I love learning and I also have workaholic & perfectionist tendencies which has been exasperated in this environment. I have a love hate relationship with it and doing some deep reflection within myself to understand what I truly value and the kind of life I want to create.
I got my PhD already but still decided to leave academia and find a job in industry because only few people can get a tenure job. Job market in academia is extremely horrible. PS: what she said in the video is so true!
I quit a masters in when I heard our coordinator bragging about being hospitalized for exhaustion
LOL
I've been laughing about this all day!!!
I got two masters degrees and refused PhD offer because of toxic publish perish culture. Industry is more rewarding than climbing up to academic ladder. Academia is a carrot and stick game
very good video thank you, PhD unfortunately ruin people life with no good salary or healthy life at the end i think you took the right decision
Wow CZcams algorithm recommended this to me when I’m thinking about doing a PhD?
same 😅😅
So do I 😂
Thinking of getting a Ph.D. = DO NOT DO IT! It is a waste of time and money. So says this Ph.D.
CZcams cares about you!
Imagine experiencing toll of racism on top of that.
Jesus…
My gosh honestly I don't know what kind of people end up in academia. That's a fucking sharks tank. I was bullied as well. Not racism as I am European but I am Spanish so we are the bullied ones fron Europe many times. That reminds me more of a school rsther than professional people. How are you doing currently?
I feel this way about my 3rd year in my masters for MFT. I told all my loved ones if I ever talk about pursuing a PhD they have permission to slap me. 😂 I do not appreciate throwing money down the drain for the direction academia is taking. Your experience is what happened with me (depression, anxiety, panic attacks) but I’m trying to stick it out this last year. I still need 300 more hours of counseling. I resonate with A LOT of what you’re saying. I told my class and professor I realized relationships are what matter in life and I’m letting go of perfection in school and work. Sure enough, I just found out one of my cousins just passed away at 30... really putting into perspective how important relationships are, life is short, work and school isn’t everything.
THANK YOU ... i dunno i just feel like sobbing .................. thanks again, i feel like i found a friend...don't know howmany people can relate to this... That feeling like you're a total failure because you just find it so hard to balance work + phd studies..
I feel so related to you. As a counseling psych PhD student, I can't imagine doing a clinical psych degree. I saw all of my friends are workaholic and didn't sleep well, wake up until 4am, really hate writing reports. Even I am a counseling psych student, I have a burden that I have to publish a lot before finishing my degree. This is a lot of pressure. I always imagine what if I didn't get into the degree and my life would be better than that.
What would you imagine yourself doing alternatively? And are all clinical programs like this?
Omg--I can relate so much. I'm in a Social Psychology PhD program that I have to pay tuition for (no stipend). I hate it and am seriously considering quitting now, after my second semester. This made me feel so affirmed, like it's not just me! Thank you so much!
It’s very imortant to talk about this because a lot of phd students are dealing with same problems. I quit my job as a junior researcher after one year and felt much better after that desizion. It requires courage to do what you want and not what people are expecting or thinking is the “dream job”. You should be proud of yourself! “Just because you can do something doesn’t mean it’s good for you”
Wish you had made more videos. You were SMART to quit your Ph.D.. I should have quit mine before getting it - waste of time & money.
So well said! Indeed, lack of work-life balance is one of the most common reasons for leaving academia. In my case, I didn't mind as much as I have preference to work hard and long hours, but it was disturbing to me that people *pretend* that they live life. Instead of admitting that they work overnights, they pretend on Twitter and Instagram that they live life and enjoy. I was also making pics of every person I was talking and every meal I was eating to just to make the same impression.
By the way, life after PhD can be fun, so PhD doesn't need to be wasted time! At my channel. post interviews with former academics who are now successful in industry, please take a look if you are interested in this topic!
Thank you so much for sharing your honest experiences and reflections about this. It is a really hard decision to come to. I am also at this point in my life but I just finished Masters and have decided not to keep going with the PhD. Even during my Masters program I have begun to realise how toxic academia generally is and also how casualized the academic environment has become. It is very competitive as well because everyone has that ‘aspiration’ to be the next person who ‘makes it’ and receives tenure. This means it is often extremely difficult to receive any job permanency, and the temporary contract-based work is not compatible with the lifestyle I want. It’s not secure or stable enough and there just aren’t enough permanent job opportunities. I also love teaching so I have decided to go into teaching secondary school students in my field. I think it’s the right path for me.
Thanks for bringing up the biology of not doing a PhD, I am on the verge of quitting/ writing up as a Master's, and it's basically because I want to have children and I don't see academia as a good route at all. Women can't afford 4/5 year PhDs, then short term post docing or technician roles with no stability for a couple of years. PhDs also don't necessarily help with getting a job outside of academia... My supervisors are both older women, only one has a biological child (she would have liked to have more children), and the other left it too late. I was doing a PhD to get better prospects in life. I was very deluded.
I'm struggling right now whether I should quit and everything you said made me relate with you. That's exactly what I needed. Thank you so much ❤️ I'm quitting my PhD after this. I work to live and not live to work. Thank you, really.
That’s nice !!!! I’m quitting mine too .. 🤣🤣
I was considering quitting mine as well. Tell me how it feels?
good decision !
@@remremivl5645 where are you from ?
Me too I am thinking of quitting it
Recently decided to quit my PhD program as well and the algorithm recommended this to me. I’ve noticed a lot of these issues as well! The toxic workaholism and connection of your research to your identity have not been healthy for me either.
Your takes are very valid and accurate. I'm glad that you decided what you think is best for you.
I'm also dreaming about a PhD but now, I'm also thinking about things which I feel like would hinder me personally from doing so. Thanks for your wonderful inputs!
Thank you so much for creating this video. It is truly very helpful and eye opening for me. Wishing you the best and great health
Currently looking at grad programs in public health, and this video is exactly what I needed to hear. I like consuming research as well, am passionate about chronic disease prevention and public health nutrition epidemiology, but that work-life balance does not sound like the move for at all.I very much enjoy my life away from work. I'm very very active, and would be miserable if i had to sacrifice that part of my life. Thanks loads for sharing your insight. it will definitely help me huge deal in making my final decision.
P.s: like, im also struggling, but trying. Peace and blessing to everyone.
Its ok to quit something you hated. What's important is living a happy life.
But We should have a good alternative for quitting 😢
Hello Jordanne & thank you for sharing your story. I really appreciate your candid reflections on why you chose to drop the Phd program in favor of your mental health & wellness for therapeutic care. I too am from Los Angeles, and took time out after completing my undergraduate studies at UCLA to focus on my community engagement work, volunteer advocacy, and professional development outside of academia. It was a good choice for me at the time, and I stand by it b/c of the political climate we were all more or less thrown into around the time I graduated from the university. Hope you find your way to the work you want to make & create in the world, while also spending more quality time focusing on your family. Cheers & best of luck!
Thank you for sharing this! I relate to this soooo much. I’m a study coordinator in clinical psych lab and wanted to do a PhD in clinical psych but the toxicity is astronomical, don’t think I’ll do a PhD anymore or pursue academia. You’re strong girl ❤️
My friend also had to deal with a lot of toxicity during their PhD in toxicology.
Yes to some extent I can relate with your situation. After completing Masters in geography in 2018, the next 'normal' thing was to go for Phd but that was not what I did and that actually enraged everyone from my family since completing masters from JNU and being a gold medalist doesn't necessarily tantamounts to pursuing B. Ed according to them (my parents). But I somewhere could guage what were the cons of getting into Phd ( as I have heard from my friends whose revision of drafts by their supervisors got delayed by 1 year). For those who can deal with these it's fine but there are other alternatives as well as for me teaching in a school right now hasn't stopped me from pursuing higher studies simultaneously or publishing papers, so yes, if you are not happy with pursuing Phd then just don't do it. Mental satisfaction is the ultimate goal!.
Well I completed my Msc in Physics, also wanted to go for teaching. I wanted to teach Physics to students, not research. But parents thought that is not a well reputed job, also money is less. So preparing for government jobs as per their desire.
Good luck!
Thank you for your video! I am considering a PhD now, but I have a lot of uncertainties, considering the workaholism above all... it is already heavy in the master. Thank you!
I’m also in a Clinical Psychology PhD for the first time in my life I feel like I am stuck and don’t know what to do. I feel so out of place. I am not motivated and I figured out I do not even love academia. I am not in a program that gives stipends and there are other factors that don’t seem very convenient. I can honestly say I am not showing my full potential. I cry many nights because I can almost feel this isn’t for me. I don’t know if it’s just imposter syndrome or if I definitely don’t want to do it.
Quit now!!! I wish I quit in my first year
good for you ! I wish I would have done the same. I finished my useless PhD and then went on to train as a pilot and I can promise you im so much happier flying planes.
What was your PhD in?
@@KiwiWithAHatF8F French with a concentration in Middle eastern languages (Hebrew and Arabic) useless I know but I was always pretty good at languages so it seemed a natural thing to do. Flying came much harder with all its maths and Physics and multiple exams and licenses but its infinitely more enjoyable and honestly I wish id got in that direction from the start. I still love languages though
Wow. That's very inspiring. Glad for you!
i'm a physics major in undergrad and i'm in a research group.everything you said is what i saw my supervisor go through(anxiety,stress, and extreme workaholism) and its been making me double think wether a phd is right for me because i serously don't wan't to mess up my mental health even more.
This was really interesting and informative, thank you!!
I really like your perspective because you don’t hide the truth. I’ve been thinking of getting a PhD even though I’m only a rising senior in high school. I didn’t know about the stats about how women with children are less likely to get a tenure track than a man with children. I myself don’t want children as of now, but maybe in the future I might change.
This was super helpful. I've been considering pursuing a PhD program and this helped me reflect on the reasons I would pursing a PhD. I value the same things you do and it was great to hear a different perspective about PhD programs in Clinical Psych. Would love to hear about your experience in the MSW program and after
I can relate to every single word you said, and now I am even more certain that a PhD isn't a path for me...
I understand this pressure very well and it definitely took quite some time to get through it. It is a result of 1) feelings of not being worthy/good enough, and 2) objective institutional pressures that facilitate exploitation as opposed to healthy work ethics. 1) is a personal thing to work through (possibly and sometimes necessarily with the help of others), 2) is a collective problem to address through workplace organizing.
Awesome, keep making more videos plz!
You are exactly like me. It felt like we r soul sisters. You also did the right thing. I am proud of you. Kudos to us!
I’m officially 37 hrs from my departure. I was torn initially .. but I need to breath again. I’m not handling this schedule as well as I should. 😬 I’m out.
I agree with everything you said. I just completed my master's program in mental health and addiction. I thought about going to get my Psyd but with the advice of my internship supervisors, I decided not to. Overall if you are not getting it paid while in the program combined with the extremely high student loans, it overall is not worth it in my opinion especially with the intense academic load. Through my situation Psychologists just do not make enough money if you end up with around 200- 300k which I know some programs get up to.
Wow, this was just so very relatable and I actually had no idea about the baby penalty that you brought up. I do feel that a lot of your points resonated with me tho. I have been feeling really burntout and just dreading doing PhD work and not really sure about whether or not I wanted to continue. It is still a struggle because there is always the question of, is the alternative (a job) really better for my mental health? and I don't know what exactly I want to do with my life if I just quit. Thanks tho! this video has just really made me think about what do I really want to pursue with my life.
Thank you for posting this. I attended an undergraduate program where many people went on to doctoral programs. Several times people told me that I was well suited to a PhD program. I knew people like you and I never even considered applying to a doctoral program. I am so glad that I did not pursue a PhD.
Great video and 100% on the workaholism culture. This workaholism only continues into a professor position, usually working 60 hours a week. In a PhD program there is also the unseen expense of conference attendance, where you get to meet more workaholics.
Working from 9 to 5 seems like a far away dream for me now. To me it has been more of a 9 to midnight (if not more). Working on weekends became normal. And for what, for publications? Outside of academia nobody cares if you had publications. I discovered the hard way academia is a hard school on normalizing toxicity and be ready to withstand anything no matter if you are tired, sleep deprived, or even very ill. I understand the patriarchy problem, not being able to enjoy even weekends also means not being able to have families (even as a man).
Great said, Jordanne! The relationship between science and academia is like the relationship between faith and cult. So, no regrets. I’m sure you thrive now.
That’s why I didn’t want to go into a Marketing Agency. I heard your wearing many hats and that you’re living for your job !
Why are people so blind to even get a degree, let alone a PhD? Unless you have a passion for a specific job that requires it, why bother? Just because you have the brainpower to achieve it does not mean it is worthwhile for your happiness and health. Too many are studying for validation from peers and family to only become another cog working in someone else's machine. Just find a hobby, passion or interest and go from there!
So true, but me being an idiot sheep followed the crowd and fell for the trap😭
Unfortunately mine is Psychology :(
Traditionally, that was actually the stand in the US. PhD's didn't become any kind of real thing until the 1950's, much less the notion that you needed it to be an expert in your field. It was a European thing. To paraphrase Watto, talking to QuiGonn, "Degrees and college credits are no good out here. I need something more real. Only peer reviewed research published or actual project portfolio or experience" ... the only "credential" that matters or counts is *actual* deed, experience or accomplishment; and nobody's stopping you from doing that *now* ... from publishing original research, writing and distributing software, creating video or film projects or doing other creative work *on your own* independently. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say if that you actually have to have someone else teach you what you need to know (which is what a degree *actually* marks you as), then you're not even in the same league as those who master it on their own. Also on CZcams: "Freeman Dyson - Why I Don't Like The PhD System (95/157)".
So happy to hear your story. My program doesn’t force you to join a lab because I’m not research focused. I struggle with being the only Black person in my cohort and have to deal with subtle racism.
if you can't get a full ride and stipend to do your PhD then it is an expensive hobby
you're forgetting the opportunity cost of doing the PhD both in terms of personal goals and monetary goals. Even if you're wealthy and a trust fund baby, it makes no sense to do it if you're a woman and want a family.
Thank you for speaking up
This really helped!
Its a spiritual battle !
Thank you for this
Thank you for sharing. I’m very close to quitting mine
Even though I completed my Ph.D. in Political Science about 32 years ago, my dissertation committee gave me such hard-time. I wanted to quick several times, but I went on and toughed it out. It took me six-years above two masters degrees to acquire the Ph.D. My doctoral committee would sometimes treat me in very unpleasant ways. The majority of individuals who started the program with me dropped out. The Ph.D. program is no joke, but you had to do, what was best for you, because it could have been bad for your health to stay in the program. Take care!
The Bowtie Professor!
I'm so proud of you! Great job! What is "chronic productivity" ?I think I know but want to be sure.
Toxic productivity is basically the idea that our culture values being busy and productive to an extreme which results in burnout and mental health problems. I think it could be interesting to do a whole video just on that topic.
@@doingthework32 That would be very interesting. It's very hard to know where to draw the line.
Hello, how are you a year later? I'm thinking about quitting with simmilar reasons...
How are you doing now, did you finish your MSW? When you said unfunded clinical psych phd program I felt that. Girl I'm 3.5 years into my program with 3.5 years to go! I did the starting later in life option after having a family. Totally unfunded program single mom to 4 kids. Twice my lab mentors left, no publications to my name. Thought about quitting so many times. Each term that goes by tho I feel more stuck. Guess we'll see.
Wow I admire you... I honestly don't know what I would do. I dropped out from my program but because my supervisor was terrible. 12 people left before me just one finished. so of course... that's crazy. How are you doing currently?
Hope you make more content in the future.
The stats really shocked me 🥺
What school were you in? I'm in LA too and just want to make sure I don't end up in the same program.
Thank god you all are not in India cause the competition here cut throat but I kind of like it
that is so truth!
Hey! Thank you for your video!Do students have to payback a part of theor tuition or something if they quit their PhD or master out?
It depends on your conditions!
I have some questions I was hoping you could respond to:
1) I've oftentimes heard that if you treat your PhD like an 8-5 and stay consistent with your schedule, you'll float along. Can you comment on this?
2) Im also interested in clinical programs and about to become an unpaid RA again WHILE holding a fulltime job. Are all clinical programs like this, or is there anything you recommend for filtering out the more workaholic based programs? Im more interested in conducting therapy/counseling but I still have research interests.
3) I have ADHD and have described myself as the furthest thing from a workaholic. In undergrad (business degree) I didnt try much and sitting down to study was very hard UNLESS it was for my psychology courses. Do you have any comments on this?
There's no boundaries at all. First point is not true at all. This isn't like an office job. Even if you try, you'll feel the pressure to conform to the workaholics. You also can't predict the nature of the work itself. Something might take you an hour or 16 hours to complete and you can't sleep until you're done. If you have any condition, the stress of the phd might just make it worse.
I am thinking of going back at least I can navigate academic politics better than company politics. I been struggling so hard to find a job industry I took an entry-level manufacturing engineering job that paid just a little better than my postdoc. I thought it would be okay because I can quickly work my way up. Nope, I am starting at the very bottom. I been here 7 months and new entry-level engineers with BSs in mechanical engineering are getting assigned to projects. My graduate degrees are in nuclear engineering.
New videos every week but the only video was published 1 year ago. Are you ok?
At the end of the day.. so what makes you happy .. good luck
great video, thanks ^_^
Me being an introvert, had struggled a lot to complete my masters, now I have no option left other than doing a PhD, I cannot even imagine what my life would be like, because PhD involve lots of communication and pressure! Somebody help me! I have my ms in biology!
I am also in like that situation since I have done by MS from a prestigious institution. Constant pressure is there for me to do PhD from my parents. But according to me , if we are not interested to do PhD the don't do it. Otherwise we will quit the PhD within 6 months after joining it. So better to go for other jobs.
I am introvert as well! You have a very simmilar name than mine I see! You can do a lof of things with an ms in biology. Don't close any doors. Even you can do another master's maybe more focused on something else... a master's online... Unfortunately PhDs treat veey bad introvert people. I was bullied in my lab and I needed to quit my program. How are you doing currently?
I’ve been dying to drop out since my first year. I’m in year 4 and still honestly think I’d be really happy if I dropped out. My only issue is that I have no idea what to do instead. I wish I went into computer science back in college or something that would help me work remotely.
I actually finished a phd but on the side I took a lot of courses related to data science and programming the last year of my degree. I landed a tenure-track but i knew it was just while I was able to start another career and I just needed the money and time. Lasted 1 year on the job but in the meantime started a masters program online on data science and did it over the weekends and just lied to everyone that I was doing research during those hours. I haven't even graduated from my masters degree in DS and I already landed a data science job (remote) that actually combines my phd subject area with data science. Second I landed the job I quit academia permanently. It can totally be done. Don't be afraid. Just buy some time while you come up with a good exit strategy. There's a lot of opportunities out there in the world. My life is awesome now. If you are close to finishing, just try to finish and build an exit strategy.
@@CapitanNaufragothank you so much for your story!
Sorry to hear you felt you always had to be working. If a supervisor is working you to death, leave them.
I've been to a few universities, and each department has its own culture.
You should NOT be working all the time! You must have downtime in order to be healthy, see your family, and to have creative research ideas.
How have you been doing since quitting?
Hey take care.Meditate.😊
Before undertaking the PhD I wonder, did no one (e.g. your supervisor) mention anything about continual research aspects/publishing papers, that might be normally associated were you to remain in a career linked to your PhD subject matter? Were you able to speak to professionals working in this field (post doctoral) about what would be involved? It would be a real shame if you had little/no knowledge of what would be involved.
Still, switching to a MSc, a highly regarded qualification, is only the next rung lower than a PhD. I wish you well in your future!
Yeah
Publishing is not enough. What is more important is getting grants.
not just in studying; in work - forever is what is your contribution to the organization and no-one sees if you work well but your publications during personal appraise time where you are no focused that you have worked well, no MC, good relationship with people around you. Noone sees that you are so busy cleaning shit for others that no time to lead something. Once you are not leading something, you are nobody.
Hey, I'm sorry your experience with PhD sucked, and glad you made a choice that worked for you. I just wanted to share / discuss that the sexism can go both ways. That's not to say what you experienced doesn't exist. Just wanted to voice perhaps it's just a-holes in the fields that have their tendencies, not one sexism over another. I'm in my miserable bio PhD part of my dual deg program (there's still a lot of us so I won't be ID'ed hopefully) and my PI, a lady, has an expectation where I'm expected a lot more work as a single male than another grad student who is married, and honestly spending 16 hrs a day kinda is taking a toll on my mental health, which tbh is how I found your vid. so that's that.
Tl;dr: manipulating, backstabbing, slavedriving a-holes can be everywhere, not necessarily the sexism. Sorry your experiences sucked, but saying patriarchy is the reason depicts a narrative that my equally shitty experiences aren't real.
Her experience doesn't negate yours and the patriarchy is very real and is ridiculously ingrained in all levels of academia. Maybe you didn't mean it to, but the comment you left lands very badly and is tone deaf to the reality that women face every day.
@@jessimarisami Oh really. I really meant no harm then, but with your response this really will sound even more tone deaf.
NOT EVERYONE IS EVERYONE ELSE.
I tried to concede and say there are certainly goodly rotten apples.
Your generalization that 'women face x, y, and z everyday, and you're tone deaf to say your experience sucks' is creating a zero sum, not to mention that you don't really mean when you say 'her experience doesn't negate [mine]'. clearly, because patriarchy is real, mine is negated here.
I'm not sure if that's what you intended, so if not, please allow me to see how it is not.
Fields change. There are women leaders in science. Relatively recently I attended conference where many women leaders of the field presented, led, and were promoted. So much so that I thought my first comment was fair to say and that maybe it has more to do with the power-dynamics (everyone on even field, where odd evil ones, male or female, overworking students with their own expectations of how things should be)
But being a male, I get that I don't know what my female colleagues go through day-to-day. So like you were suggesting. Yeah, my views don't matter. I don't mind.
I know there will always be the next oppressor.
Whether in science or not, I hope you have an amazing career, and dismantle patriarchy wherever you go (really do hope so--I think it will liberate us all from getting called tone-deaf from venting)
Hi. I am a girl and I absolutely agree. I hope you are doing well now.
@@jessimarisami I am a woman and I understood his comment. He meant that in this particular reason, he thought that maybe was not due to patriarchy. He could be wrong. Maybe he could be indeed due that she is a girl. But I experienced similar things and in my case I wouldn't say it was because I was a woman or Hispanian or something like that. I think it was more because I was introvert and it seemed I didn't care about anything. Not because I was a woman. For his case can be more frustrating because girls we can thing is because of patriarchy. At least you are some sort of relieved when you think you know the reason. I know how it feels because I was bullied for 14 years without knowing the reason. So I feel for him must be frustrating. I would say it could be more due to age even than gender.
the thing is that my female superiors with power did NOTHING at all about this. They just keep perpetuating the toxic culture. They could play the game so why would they care about changing it if they have "won". These females in academia, a lot of them are equally if not more toxic than the males. They do this while claiming to be all about female empowerment but they're just buzzwords.
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Ah yes the “patriarchy” even though more women graduate college than men these days.
I agreed with your statements until the facts in support of patriarchy and misogyny. That simply isn’t true. The main reason why women with children suffer is that they have essentially spent time out of the rat race and typically chose to maximise time off to spend time with their children. This is the same across all employment.
I think everything you said was on point. But I don't think things will change in academia without ethnic minorities, lgbt+ and women actually pushing for change from within the system. Its a big sacrifice and its not for everyone. If we all keep leaving doesn't it continue the cycle? Do we have to wait on white men to save us from this situation? Its complex.
I completely agree with you. We definitely need folks who can make that sacrifice and demand change to address inequalities and the insane workload. In fact, I sometimes regret quitting for that very reason. I hope that some people will be able to make that sacrifice and change it for future academics.
Please do not play on this woman's anxieties and turn this into a men v women or black v white social engineering exercise of divide and conquer. Your remark is both racist and sexist. You are offering these leftist ideologies to make this woman think it is men that are the problem or white people that are the problem or, I have no doubt, straight people that are the problem, but clearly it has been the wrong career for her.
By planting this false hope into her you have re-kindled a false sense of regret, that her former dream may be resurrected. This is a classic Marxist deconstruction technique to instill confusion. Now as she embarks upon her new path, shedding the delusions of prestige and glamour and money, you rope her back in saying 'Heh, you could really have all this, its just a case of coming on board with us, with BLM, with Antifa, with extinction Rebellion, with child molester Kamala Harris and Chicago mobster Nancy Pelosi - and destroy the straight white male'.
It is incredibly cruel what you have just done. This woman has had depressions and is coming out of that, a slow delicate process, and made a very good decision which is in keeping with her inner self, her future family, and her future children, where she knows her happiness lies. However these desires for prestige and glamour and money will destroy all that, and they may open up new non-PhD avenues for family and life wrecking delusions - even after having just been through a whole episode of that, she may yet return to it again under the magick spells of leftist identity politics that you have just cast, causing catastrophic long term damage to her life.
I say to this lady stick with your plan - you have hit the nail on the head, you made a GOOD decision - and whenever you hear these devils of leftist identity politics softly whispering in your ear - RUN FOR YOUR LIFE. You are a very nice lady, do not sell yourself out to that system of delusion, you are vastly worth MORE than all its holographic illusions. They are attempting to own you, that is how this works, a 'chattel'.
The way they control you is by messing with your head - that is how they own you - its just a more sophisticated version of how they own trafficked people. The way its done is through controlling the mind, they know the triggers, and they can manipulate you like a puppet on strings. If you think this is far-fetched, then use those psychology skills of yours to read up on TAVISTOCK.
Don't buy into their false dreams - you have already seen what they are capable of. They will try to get you to make the same mistake again and again thinking 'it will be different this time'. Its no different from a gambling addiction. When you reach 40 and find its too late then you know you've lost the game and THEY have won. They sucked all the life blood out of you, handed you a pile of $$$, and then left you running round like a headless chicken, popping pharmaceutical pills and attending therapy sessions. There was actually nothing wrong with you all along - you just swam in toxic waters - the terrain theory.
You have taken the first tentative step. Your biggest challenge now on the rocky road that lies ahead of you which will unite you with your future family and happiness inside your soul is to avoid the leftists like this whispering snake called 'Shawn'. You have embarked upon the first step to leaving behind this death force and restore yourself to LIFE and ABUNDANCE. Do not live through FEAR - live through LOVE. The people who run this system are sub-human and incapable of love.
@@HowardARoark You mention the word "leftist" four times, you call Kamala Harris a child molester, and you call Nancy Pelosi a Chicago mobster. If not for your tinfoil "leftist" complex, your statement could almost be taken seriously. You need psychiatric help. And I don't even like Harris, Pelosi, or identity politics.
@@Xrayballer88 Thank you for your masterful textual analysis. Though you care to mention only ancillary points, yet completely neglect to comment on the actual issue under discussion. So, reluctantly you have conceded your identity politics, and gave up on leftist criminals Harris and Pelosi? Congratulations, we are incredibly touched by your presence. But I guess people with a mind of their own are a bridge too far you, and should be refered to leftist 'psychiatrists' for Marxist reprogramming? If you consult a Ms Jessie Czebotar online you will find ample evidence of the child abuction activities of pr0stitute Kamala Harris. And the Chicago crime family background of Nancy Pelosi is very well established. You have to figure out how else she could rise to such a position - it certainly was not through talent or virtue. Now if you have anything constructive to say on the issue under discussion please say it, instead of simply coming in and throwing leftist fecal matter at people.
the admins ultimately have the final say. Let's not forget that academia is a CRUEL business where money needs to be made and people come last. All I can do now is warn people not to go into a PhD. Then maybe there will be a shortage of labor and they'll actually have to consider the working conditions and expectations...but his will never happen. Too many people going into these programs without any clue and plan and without knowing these truths and for some really wrong reasons (I was one of them). I think the person that made this video is doing a lot more on the outside to spread the word than what she would be able to do on the inside.
Academia is Toxic
it's a toxic culture
Only losers quit their PhD
Why do you want to brag about your failure in PhD? Rather than justifying your failure, why did you further study for PhD in the first place? If the initial objectives have changed, it is normal to abandon the PhD study, as faced by Yahoo founders. The difference is they become billionaires while you are not! Most of the people who further study for PhD have the ability to complete the study. But, they let their inefficient life interfere with their PhD study. I have seen people who have lesser ability to complete their PhD, while more brilliant people fail in their PhD study. To success in anything, the most important thing is FOCUS, FOCUS and FOCUS. Focus is everything. Once you fail, it is hard to know how to improve yourself. Good luck in your future endeavor.
By the way, having PhD does not mean you must work in academic. There are many people who have PhD but work in the industry, have family and successful life. It sounds like you are actually studying in a toxic environment and having a not suitable supervisor. Identifying problems you face ASAP is important in order to make corrective actions.
It’s all the patriarchy’s fault
Mommy and Daddy $ run out?
so in other words u quit because of patriarchy in academia. people will always hv excuses.
@Aayush Sinha AIML well she makes it sounds more like it was patriarchy than being depressed
bringing up gender differences. bs. phd student myself, just say you're not cut for the work and qed lmaoo
But why start an unfunded PhD program? That’s indication number one that this wasn’t the path for you. Thanks for the geriatric comment-you’re not ageist at all and yet you complain about patriarchy. No one calls it geriatric pregnancy anymore lmfao which makes me think you’re a Republican. 🤦♀️ Irony.
Because funded programs are extremely competitive?? Or maybe there was another reason
@@Futureacquiescenceif you can’t get onto a funded PhD you’re not good enough to do a PhD. Might be harsh but it’s true