Is the GEMSTORE predatory?
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- I am a big fan of Guild Wars 2, of the whole franchise even. But sometimes, it's good to also consider the game's weak(er) points. One that has kept me busy for a while is the gem store.
Or rather, would it be better to pay a monthly subscription? Or have a game rely 100% on micro transactions. ArenaNet chose the latter, and I do believe it is for the better. But it doesn't mean we have to like everything that's been implemented.
Mtx or micro transactions often prey on psychological flaws of the player base. Sometimes subtle, such as introducing (time) scarcity, other times less so, such as have offering the premium currency only in certain quantities. This becomes exceedingly frustrating when these quantities don't line up with the prices in the store.
And that's only the tip of the iceberg!
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00:00 Intro
00:17 Why gems?
00:56 Spending issues
02:11 Excess
02:40 Predatory tactics
03:51 "Quality of Life"
05:13 Scarcity
05:50 Why?
06:24 Outro
#guildwars2 #gaming #mmorpg - Hry
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As someone who has played subscription based games, I like this model much better. I'm always happy to toss a couple bucks their way, and I don't feel an obligation to play every day in a month I paid the fee. I can be inactive for weeks and still drop in to help my guild with raids or something. I do think some of the items on the store are terrible deals, but I think GW2 does a better job than most (which maybe is a bar set too low...)
Agreed! Overall the Gemstore (bar a few exceptions) is a really great model, I wouldn't have it any other way either. I also think that the model of monthly based subscriptions is something that would only work with playerbases so big, that they would eclipse other games. So for the longevity of the game, I'm all for.
@@phandrel It can be even worse when there is both a subscription and a store with loot boxes (hello, TESO).
@@Arcatera1846 I actually haven't tried TESO yet, but that doesn't all that enticing. One or the other, I'm usually fine with. Or if they're purely cosmetics, like WoW, though (granted I never bought the tokens).
yeah i stopped playing for years. then came back each time a new expansion was released.
GW2's gemstore is great. I have never felt like I "needed" to buy anything there, but instead I wanted to just to support the game and get something nice for it.
That's awesome! I remember feeling differently when the very first unlimited tools launched. But new ones followed rather quickly, which was enough for me to stop worrying.
I'm not too well versed with MTX in other games, but I will commend ANet for not offering discounts based on the quantity of gems purchased. I'll toss 5€ every now and then for gems and don't have to feel bad because I could've gotten more gems by spending the money at once. Also not having the gems go on sale (apart from quite rarely via gem cards?) is great.
That's a very good point, which I hadn't considered. Wholeheartedly agree as well!
Arena net watching this video, "Excuse sir, what's your account name please?"
: | Definitely not Phandrel
Bigweewee.6969 - did i win the giveaway 🫣😱
I buy $20 of gems each Christmas, and at no other time. I view it as a reasonable subscription cost, and get some cool skins to boot. Any other purchases I do using gold. I'd be "rich, you know," if it wasn't for this practice. Oh, I do buy gems one other time, and that is expansions, when I splurge for the deluxe version that includes $50 of gems at half-price.
That seems like a fairly good practice, and you do get a lot of bang for your buck throughout the year with everything that you can do in-game.
The only thing I ever thought was predatory was when the "everything" bundle didn't give you everything. They fixed that though. I feel like the game isn't predatory enough. I voluntarily pay a $20 sub each month (i.e. I buy gems) because I want to make sure the game stays up forever.
Yeah, if I made a comparison vs other MMOs video, I think our gemstore would come out as rather "tame". The advantage of buying $20 worth of gems a month, is that you get a bit more than a standard sub would, so that's a positive :)
i think the answer is definitely No. Gems are an amazing resource you have in the game, and the fact you can just go ahead and work some gold for them. I love the gemstore idea as instead of them being necessary to progress or anything, you can work for what you want, and i think thats really dope for a rpg game that begins free.
I agree, there's a few items that I do find questionable, or the gem quantities. But it'd be unfair of me to expect a system I find perfect, that lines up with company interests, and that everyone else also likes. So the middle ground they struck, was a good thing.
I buy gems with gold everytime i see them at around 150-156 gold for 400 gems whenever i can. Doing this i've been able to get a crap ton of account upgrades; i even told myself "no cosmetics till i have all the account upgrades i want" but those damn backpack+glider combos and those damn mount skins! lmao
Haha, I feel you. I keep telling myself the same, then just now those stone wings glider/backpack.
i've always turned my gold into gems so i'm happy with the system, but it should be noted that the equipment template and build templates should probably be considered p2w. in WvW there are many scenarios where being able to switch builds and equips gives a gigantic competitive advantage.
for example, i play revenant and being able to switch to a full minstrel set with a build set that makes ventari bubble cost no pips is so strong to have. because you can place the bubble on top of the burning oil or cannon and stop an entire zerg from using their siege. having 4-5 sets of these equip/build templates for various scenarios is such a competitive advantage.
That's a very good point, that I hadn't considered yet. Thanks!
I also see how this can get particularly messy with thieves or other builds that can break combat and swap on the fly.
I mostly buy bag slots that are on sale and a couple really cool mount skins like outlaw raptor and plush skin. A lot of stuff are fairly priced but I definitely don’t like some of the 1800 to 2000 price because it’s right at that mark when you have to spend a extra 5 or 10 to purchase that last 1 or 200 gems. Outfits are a good price usually about 500 gems so not bad. I don’t recommend buying any xp items except maybe 1 or 2 of the one that increases your critical crafting xp gain as it saves you money, resources and time when your wanting to max level a crafter. I don’t mind spending some money on gem store here and there because this game is very money friendly compared to most games. Call of duty is a re skinned game re released every 12 months and that is 60 to 80 dollars then you get charged 20 to 30 dollars for every season and it’s usually 5 seasons. So a one year cycle of the latest call of duty will cost you around 200 dollars and that’s if you don’t buy anything else in store. Ff 14 charges 10 to 12 monthly fee which isn’t bad but very annoying. So playing this amazing game free after buying all the expansions is very good so I do encourage spending a few bucks to support this awesome game. Having inventory space is super important as I have max inventory possible on my main character and I’m constantly running out nearly daily so investing in inventory and even a few bank slots is worth it. Bank slots is good place for loot chests or legendary material that way it’s safe and you won’t accidentally delete from inventory
i like video game cosmetics so i think it's fine :) something predatory imo for example- is how maplestory used to (maybe still) had an in game store where most items had an expire date. Yes, after a while they are deleted and you have to buy it again. 😳
Oh, I wouldn't like that. I'm not the biggest fan of paying for something that expires (be it boosters here, or the MS example you stated). Cosmetics, fully agree. Especially since we can technically still buy them for gold after converting.
To be honest... every time I hear from GW2 Players how predatory the gemstore is I do really wonder if they ever played another games in the past decade. In my experience the GW2 gemstore is one the fairest I have ever seen. Yes, there are a few noob traps, but that's barely anything compared to what other games do. Nothing is mandatory and once you figure out how to make gold you can easily buy some of the awsome QoL Stuff.
A year ago I have started an alt and the limited inventory and bankspace forced me to open and sell stuff instead of letting it disappear into the bank. That made me realise HOW MUCH gold you actually get by just casual gameplay.
Agreed, the gemstore is incredibly fair. There's a few items I'd rather not see, but that's nitpicking at a relatively good system that works for the greater playerbase. Honestly, I'm happy they went with this model .
@@phandrel Yep :) Btw, this was not a criticism with you. In the video your personal oppinion came across well. 👍
While the loot box effect on dyes has never ceased to irritate me when trying to get a specific dye for my character's appearance (we all know endgame is transmogs), I feel it's all pay for convenience. I have never felt pressured to buy from the gem store.
True. I also feel that the lootbox for dyes kind of feels out of place, I get why they do it for all other items, though.
for me most of the gems store is completely fine, but I have a huge problem with one item in particular the hero point scroll. I feel like there are only 2 types of players buying those. super end game players who probably just convert some gold or new players. and that is my problem, it feels like those items are only making money because they are praying on new players who want to experience "the end game" but who are not able to beat the hero points. so to me, it feels like this is the worst case of these unlock items since they don't affect convenience but rather new play styles for ppl who are just starting out on the game.
I wholeheartedly agree on the HP scroll, I would even argue that endgame players have more than enough WvW currency to buy HP for "free" that way. So to me it seems like it really targets new players. Overall, the gemstore is pretty decent for a game that has to live off of it.
@@phandrel Also, players who are buying the hero points are missing out on the experience of HP trains, where a leader shepherds a whole zerg of players through the Heart of Thorns or Path of Fire hero points. Not only are these very efficient, even for the uglier maps (I'm looking at you, Tangled Depths), but they are a lot of fun as well. Just use Looking for Groups to find HP trains in HoT or PoF.
Besides map completion, a handy way to get Black Lion Chest Keys for low cost is key farming. Once a week, I create a new character, and run him/her up to level 40, doing the story missions. This nets 2 keys, and takes me about 90 minutes. The cost is 32 Tomes of Knowledge I use to level up quickly, plus a one-time cost of some bloodbound weapons and a set of decent lvl 18 account-bound armor. You can only do this once a week on your account since Anet time-gates the lvl 10 BL key, since people were going overboard farming keys.
I usually do the level 10 mission, but have recently been contemplating adding the 40 as well. The extra time investment seems particularly worth it (as I simply like opening a chest every now and then).
@@phandrel The nice thing about the lvl 40 key is that you get it at the start of the story instead of the end. So really you just have to complete the lvl 30 story and level up to 40.
skill effect color = GEMS man this would give them a lot of money
That would be a money printer, indeed. Also mech skins...
I love the gemstore. When life is short on time, I buy some items to help me make up for the time I didn't get to play. When life is calmer, I play and save gold to exchange for gems and that is very good. Yesterday I finished a legendary weapon, sold it and bought 6000 gems. I already spent it all.... hahahaha!
Nice:D And yep, it sure evens the playing field when you have less time than you'd ideally want to spend, that way you're not stuck playing catch up all the time.
When listing all the reasons why Anet needs to bring in cash via ingame transactions, don’t forget to mention the shareholders greed as well, don’t blame the need for money on the devs and such who just got to get paid for their work
Lovely video and good point to talk about.
Thanks! Glad you like it.
While I do feel GW2 has some of the more acceptable practices, it's good to be aware of what the pitfalls are for the consumer, imho.
@@phandrel Yeah, it is fair cash shop unlike other MMORPG around right now.
I got 400 gems for getting to 30k achievement points and from what I had in bank I made 2000 in gold. I bought new dyes. It was berry berry profitable.
Definitely, Achievement Hunting is pretty underrated when it comes to making gold. Those chests give quite a bit of goodies in return.
Without needing to watch the whole video, just based on the description, my answer is a BIG "NO"
Of course it's predatory - Monetary value hidden behind a currency, gems not aligning to even use for purchases, game made worse on purpose to sell you the solution through the store - item space, bank space, gathering tools, character slots, etc. Yeah there's no subscription fee, but there is a box fee. And according to the community - the true end game of guild wars 2 is Cosmetics and outfits - by definition making the store directly pay to win since it's mostly full of cosmetics.
Of course, this isn't the worst example in the gaming industry - see diablo immortal or raid shadow legends. But just because it's LESS bad, doesn't make it not predatory. As long as consumers are willing to accept scummy industry practices like this, we'll only get more and only get worse forms of it.
I'm a 10 year vet, and I would say the true end game is playing the content. GW2 is just enjoyable to play. Fashion is one aspect to have fun with, but only some of it is obtained in the gemstore. For players who like to do "gear grind" I think GW2 is hard to understand. Instead of "gear grind treadmill", GW2 has tons and tons of achievements that you can work on completing. You complete them through playing the game (the fun part). I think that's why I keep coming back. GW2 doesn't ask you to work, rather to just play the different parts of the game.
@DredZach The conversation wasn't about what you thought the end game was. But since you brought it up - I disagree entirely. There's no content to play. Playing the same 12 year old pvp maps on repeat or running the same meta trains or wvw zergs isn't new or compelling content. Horizontal progression isn't the be all end all you think it is. It doesn't keep people interested and it's a big part of the reason the game is dead. I think gw2 absolutely nailed it's combat system. But they squandered their potential and momentum to be any real contender for a top spot in the mmo genre. Even long time players are leaving the game. Guild wars 2 was not a bad game, it just never got the love and development it needed to actually succeed.
@@XAn0nymousX0 I'm sorry you don't enjoy the game. Have you ever tried fractals, raids, fully completing maps including achievements? Have you ever tried WvW but no going with the zerg? There might still be some fun for you. 185,000 daily player logins is not the highest, but the game is certainly not dead.
@DredZach yeah I've played the game on and off since it first released. I don't see map completion or achievements as compelling content. Map completion is only useful for legendary crafting and achievements are completely useless.
And as far as the definition of "dead" goes... I think there's just a common misconception there. Dead doesn't mean nobody is playing the game. Dead means it's only retaining the same loyal veterans who always play and isn't drawing in a new crowd. This problem isn't specific to gw2 BTW. This is a problem with the mmo genre as a whole. Younger players just don't care about them.
And look at the veteran player response to soto and the actual development time put into the game. It's extremely lackluster.
@@XAn0nymousX0 I just mentioned completing maps because in the non-Tyria maps there are a lot of cool things to do that I never discovered until I started going through the map achievements. Just working on one map at a time to complete the achievements is more immersive than just the map completion, which as you say, isn't compelling. I wonder what you would have liked to see them add/change to make this game move in the right direction? Just curious.
GW2’s business model is the least predatory of any game I know that has ongoing development that must be funded. If players can’t control their actions and wait until they get in game gold to convert to gems, so they can purchase the convenience or cosmetic items they want, that’s their personal problem.
I would agree, very valid point on responsibility as well. That's something we all gotta manage for ourselves.
@@phandrel Personally, I have purchased gems many times over the last 12+ years, and I see it as my way of supporting the game developers.
@@a.p.3334 that is a really bad case of whataboutism.!. Oh, and you forgot butt cancer in your list
@@a.p.3334 How about we let each person be responsible for their own actions and not play the victim card? And if you’re talking about children, then it’s the responsibility of their parents to be in control of their ability to spend money. By your definition, all games that have any kind of cash shop is predatory. I, on the other hand, commend Arenanet for choosing to not charge a subscription fee for GW2, and don’t classify them as predatory for how they generate revenue by offering cosmetic and convenience items that are optional items.
I just prefer paying a sub and not having to worry about a cash shop in my face everytime i'm playing.
I can understand that. I'm more than OK with their chosen direction. Especially since most games with a sub added a cash shop, too.
It is unfortunate that you get to see the gemstore every time you hit the TP shortcut, though.
@@phandrel That's pretty much my main complaint , the TP thing , and the inventory.
I'm going to be honest here, unlike the commenters, I prefer sub based games. I've played several MMOs over the years, and the 2 sub based ones - WoW and FF14 - consistently have more content, more earnable ingame cosmetics and most of all, DON'T FEEL THE NEED TO FILL YOUR BAGS WITH A MULTITUDE OF JUNK EVERY SECOND like every other non sub based game, gw2 included. Heck FF14 went as far as to nearly completely remove ALL junk drops in their game - it just drops gil directly. They do that so the servers have less to process, and they're already getting a sub from you every month anyway, there's no need to nickel and dime you into buying store bag slots. If I want to stop playing, I un sub and forget about it - the sub fee costs like a quarter of a triple A game and is around maybe 3 days worth of meals here, why would I care about logging in every second to get my money's worth? I'm not going to linger over my plate of chicken rice for an extra 10 minutes just to get my money's worth - the same applies to a sub based game, especially since FF14 is extremely consistent with content.
People in the general gw2 community like to scream "fashion is endgame!@!!11!!!" Guess what's the majority of the stuff in the store? Fashion items. The irony is somehow lost on them. Heck you literally cannot earn any mount skin ingame aside from 1 for a wvw specific mount, and you have to buy soto to get the griffon/skyscale one. Contrast this with FF14's gigantic amount of earnable mount skins ingame that can be gotten from all kinds of activities - you can even slot gear onto your chocobo for that specific mount to change how it looks. You've already covered how the temporary duration of items in the game is a psychological trap, so there's no need to elaborate on that, but I will point out that anet has been doing that since launch, before there were so many items in the store.
As for keys, this is likely anet's biggest earner. People don't realise how many gambling addicts drop money on these - when the chopper chair/glider came out, I've seen people say they dropped hundreds of dollars for keys. It doesn't matter that you can earn them ingame, it takes time doing map comp and key runs are limited to 1 a week. Do you know what FF14 doesn't have? Lootboxes. Like every other non sub game, this game is sustained by a small number of whales who spend more than is smart. You might toss some spare change at the devs every now and then, but it is just that - spare change. It will not sustain an entire team living in a first world country.
And I have to mention that shareholder QnA recently that name dropped gw3. DO you know why the shareholder is whining? It's because NCsoft west - which basically consists only of anet now, from my knowledge - is in a deficit. That means that the game isn't profitable enough. Now despite the wall of text I've typed, I actually do think the gemstore is fair by and large aside from a couple of issues - but I have a feeling it is in trouble. Shareholder QQ is extremely potent in this industry. Heck it might be the reason hero points were sold in the store this year. Some more insidious stuff might be slowly creeping into the store.
Thanks for your insights! I think my biggest gripe overall is the mount skins, I loved hunting for those in WoW and FFXIV, and is something that I do miss in GW2. But overall, I can't complain that much about the gemstore either.
GW3, even though I assume that's years out, might introduce some changes to the payment model (regarding to "fair" value in the gemstore), so that's something we should all be wary of.
@@phandrelYea I have a feeling if and when gw3 comes out the shop won't be as fair as gw2, but that's too far in the future to think about for now.🤣
change the title to: Is the GW2 Gemstore predatory. ty.
Bish please. This game ia too free. If they go anymore free, they wont be making enough to sustain content. So id rather they earn more and make bigger n better new stuff