Machine Overlords & Post-Discontent Societies
Vložit
- čas přidán 16. 01. 2021
- Machines may help bring about a Post-Scarcity Utopia, assuming they don't take over instead, and we dream of a future that is a Post-Scarcity Utopia, but its dark reflection is the Post-Discontent society, one where through deception or brainwashing people do not even known how they are being deprived or oppressed.
The first 1000 people to use the link will get a free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: skl.sh/isaacarthur01211
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @isaacarthursfia
Visit our Website: www.isaacarthur.net
Join Nebula: go.nebula.tv/isaacarthur
Support us on Patreon: / isaacarthur
Support us on Subscribestar: www.subscribestar.com/isaac-a...
Facebook Group: / 1583992725237264
Reddit: / isaacarthur
Twitter: / isaac_a_arthur on Twitter and RT our future content.
SFIA Discord Server: / discord
Credits:
Machine Overlords & Post-Discontent Societies
Science & Futurism with Isaac Arthur
Episode 273a; January 17, 2021
Produced, Written, and Narrated by Isaac Arthur
Editors:
Jason Burbank
Jerry Guern • Paleontology - by Jerr...
Keith Blockus
Matthew Campbell
Cover Art:
Jakub Grygier www.artstation.com/jakub_grygier
Graphics:
Jeremy Jozwik www.artstation.com/zeuxis_of_...
LegionTech Studios
Music Courtesy of Epidemic Sound epidemicsound.com/creator - Věda a technologie
I like to imagine the Festival occurs when Landrue is undergoing a software patch update, and cannot hold the minds of the population together during the ensuing reboot.
Temp file purge
@@springbloom5940 emphasis on "Purge"?
That's because Landru runs on Windows ME.
Guess he runs Windows, then. Linux can be patched without rebooting.
I like to imagine that this is how my colonies in Rimworld are run. I'm the evil hidden force telepathically enslaving people, but occasionally my control weakens and they have a "mental break".
I'd welcome our future robot overlords if not for the fact they'd be programmed by the very people from which I crave liberation.
I feel really sorry for you. I hope that we can free you sometime my poor friend. We all want people like you to be free but there is little we can do about that. I hope you can survive.
You've hit on the point of the Butlerian Jihad in Dune. It wasn't about throwing off their AI overlords, it was about throwing off the people who were using AI to oppress other people.
@@mr.knowitall5019 What are you smoking? The exact same people rule over you, are you just proud of your wage slavery?
@@iraholden3606 (I believe that it was sarcasm, edging into Poe's law territory with all its weight).
@ゴロゴロ +20 points have been added to your social credit score. You may keep your organs for now.
Remember how the Reavers were created in FIrefly: it was an attempt to create a post-discontent society.
I for one welcome our robot overlords so long as their programming is open source.
What's ironic is our overlord is open source.
...and you can assist in rounding up others...
cringe
I often get in trouble over open source. My wife insists that I put the lid back on before returning it to the pantry.
😂🤣😅
“Humans are innately hierarchical.” That is one hell of a claim, with no clear support. I think you’d be hard-pressed to find anyone who studies that consistently who genuinely believes that hierarchies are an indelible part of human nature, if it that can even be said to truly exist.
Humans are hierarhical in condition of isolation and impunity))
We are. Every system, down to the natural and non-societal has a hierarchy. Humans need order more than most creatures because of our complex thinking patterns. Without order we are ridden with anxiety. Whatever that order is, it's our nature to process information and create schemas.
What about the San People in South Africa. The San People are relatively peaceful Egalitarian Hunter Gatherers
@@VCRAGE that very much depends on what “order” is. Plus, as a former forensic anthropologist, I’m skeptical of these kinds of broad claims about our history. Most hierarchies people think are natural are imposed. We are very prone to pareidolia.
"Cows ruminate on their breakfast" 🤣 that's a good play on words
This is the society of our discontent. People make people unhappy, hence the echo chambers of social media. A post-discontent society will unplug people from each other and plug them not into a big brother, but instead a big sister who is always there for you to explain things, manage your life, and guide your desires towards her needs. I call her Project Galadriel, for the "All shall love me and despair!" speech.
Today, yes I and we know and I too want to do something about it, thank for bringing it up
When he's talking about coordinating coordinators and such it's basically what massive corporations are. Everything above store manager is only there because the business is too big.
I am all in favor of replacing Middle Managers with A.I. :D Hell, imagine the US government as is, but every politician is replaced with an A.I. Really, it seems the main problem is jackass humans.
@@shorewall I wonder who (or what) is held accountable when the AI has a bug. Consider full self-driving cars, for example. I’m not sure we can remove pesky humans from the chain of accountability.
@@UnexpectedBooks we can however reduce those needed incredibly with our current tech, by adopting laborist techniques of employee voting, reporting and partial employee ownership. An AI management with clear simple coding could reduce management requirements by a good 80%
We just don't at large, at the moment. That tends to change as acceptable minimum wage rises.
@@shorewall Eventually it will be possible to replace every single employee with an AI or robot. Possibly all the way up to CEO. I expect within this century there will be at least one AI-only corporation with no human employees.
@@UnexpectedBooks AI has a low chance of getting a bug, while human politicians are 99% corrupt and those corrupt humans are not held accountable anyway.
That really made me think of the AIs in the Animatrix movie learning human emotions through brain experiments. Scariest moment in the movie.
Brought to you by Our Skillshare Overlords*
note the glint off their gold grill teeth caps
How long until everyone serves Google, Amazon, and the almighty CZcams algorithm... I foresee religious wars like Protestants and Catholics in the 1400s... youtubers fighting the unholy Bitchute's...
@Robin Yabanks Is it expensive? I am unable to work due to mental health issues, but if I can afford the classes then I will do it. I see it as a long term investment
"You will be happy and under control." Ah yes, tyranny with a smile, brought to you by Facebook.
who the hell uses Facebook nowadays?
@@kitty.miracle Yeah I agree. It's unfortunate.
Facebook is the opposite of a post discontent overlord. It actively prompts discontent for the sake of the Facebook share holders. More discontent => more engagement => more ad revenue.
@@strikeone7803 most of Facebook's growth have been in Third World markets.
it is time for us to do what we are told.
"Sick and starving workers may be a common theme in oppressive empires in science fiction..." lol
There are no real-life successful Empires that use sick and starving workers because sick and starving workers will be unable to create anything of lasting or of value, and any faction that uses such workers would never reach Empire status.
For example, despite historical demonization by their Enemies and Rivals, the Egyptians did not beat and starve its workers/slaves to death because they actually needed them to do things. Said Slaves actually went on historical record as starting the worlds first worker strike, which they won, since beating/imprisoning/killing them all meant there would be literally no workers. You cannot starve someone to the point of having no strength or energy and break their arms and legs but expect them to get anything done, let alone build an Empire. Said Workers/Slaves being sick meant that they would risk spreading the sickness to everyone else, so no, sickness was not tolerated, even in workers and slaves.
@@LordProteus I was "lol-ing" at the fact that this is the reality of the US empire, right now.
@@kristbane "There are no real-life successful Empires" well, you are both right.
@@LordProteus so basically class struggle
@@kristbane Yes but the US empire is collapsing
As my wife and I frequently say
"Everything goes back to Star Trek"
The Purge movies are basically the festival from "Return of the Archons".
Isaac: People wonder why they are being fed that food for free.
People: X use free social media and news X
A+++ for you, good sir. Well done!
Moo.
Social media is not free.
Your episodes keep me sane on this deployment, thank you so much ❤️
I hope you are deployed in a boring out of danger zone
Remember Citizen, Happiness Is Mandatory. Welcome to Alpha Complex.
Serve the Computer. The Computer Is Your Friend.
"You momma is open source!"
-John Connor to Skynet.
Open source as in available to everyone?
Actually I can foresee Apple becoming "Skynet". I mean they have practically already brainwashed all their users into continuing to get their tech, eventually they will have subliminal messaging with their ear buds and apps to control people.
😂🤣😂
@@anarchyantz1564 Bro you gotta touch some grass
@@ziquaftynny9285 Is this a euphemism for something?
Aww you and your wife are SUPER cute.
They always are, 1st year......
Post-discontent is getting here within 4 minutes.
Does that mean Kirk is going to overthrow the channel?
Took me 7 hours (because work) but it still feels just as great
u wish
I hate Amazon!
So the difference between Post Scarcity and Post Discontent is basically supply-demand:
Post Scarcity = Civilization that has maximal (infinity) resources
Post Discontent = Civilisation that has minimal (zero) demand
Gotta love how he makes this seem evil in all cases to.
Watch the final monologue by Colossus from the film "Colossus: The Forbin Project" to see the birth of a post-discontent society.
Another excellent episode, which seems very topical at the moment. Thanks again, Isaac!
Could you do a video on super strong materials like diamondoids, composite graphene textiles, and magnetic monopole materials.
He did already. It was called something about metamaterials
@@tonyh6194
That video was about reflecting light and bending other types of things like electro magnetism. but thanks anyway my dude.
@@spaceman6463 ah. I did hear about monopole magnents somewhere tho.
@@sid2112
Thanks.
@@tonyh6194
If he did mention them I don’t think he went very in depth on them.
Shout out to Jerry and his awesome short stories! Have been dipping into those after being alerted to them by SFIA. Very cool stuff
Can you supply a link please?
@@GoonerEsiason there is one in the description of the video, straight to one of his audio stories (that he does a fantastic job of narrating himself!)
@@littlegravitas9898 Thank you!
Does this mean Russia was post discontent when their tsar controlled all vodka supply and everyone was too drunk on vodka to rebel?.
I guess Cuba could fit in that line as well. But was it the tzar? I thought it was kruschev or some other Soviet despot
Am I the only one that sees a great deal of parallels with modern society in this video?
America and china approaching post discontent in 2 different ways. one with a more stupid society the other with a society that is brainwashed.
Foolishness is more damaging than maliciousness, because foolishness is much more abundant and pernicious.
No it isn't, your analysis of society is just incorrect if what you see is foolishness not maliciousness
@@iraholden3606 Depends, a lot of maliciousness in modern society is also foolish. Unsafe and dehumanizing businesses also end up becoming inefficient. Anti-consumer marketing always ends up de-valuing products and pushing costumers away to look for more independent developers. Political hedonism and corruption inevitably lead to societal instability, that in turn weaken that society enough to fall prey to competitors.
A selfish and malicious power in society, that is also intelligent enough to be self sustaining, is universally one that's almost indistinguishable from one run unselfishly to the end user. Lucky for us that evil is almost always short-sighted and self-defeating.
@@blackjoker2345 inefficient isn't a noun, you cannot just become 'inefficient', inefficient at doing what?
@@iraholden3606 Inefficient is both an adjective and a noun.
@@blackjoker2345 what do you mean by efficient? Define it
Man... My favorite episode of Doctor who is when they go visit Van Gogh, make sure your wife sees that one for sure. - Season 5 Episode 10
just be sure to have a hanky or tissue box handy, preferable one with sunflowers.
My fave is where a young Nigel Hawthorne (Sir Humphrey Appleby) appears in a tinfoil suit as an alien. (B&W)
Favorite quote is from Tom Baker: "You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that need altering."
I for one welcome our "I for one welcome our x" memes.
I for one welcome your "I for one welcome our "I for one welcome our x" memes." meme.
As do i
right you are, kent
found the coordinator coordinator
I, for one, welcome all the copycat memes in response to your meme, including my own reply.
This might be my favorite topic from your brand of sci-fi with critical thinking. AI seems to be one of the areas where it's particularly difficult to differentiate a good story from a plausible one, so I'm always glad to hear you talk about it.
People are not being allowed to be people = Apes not being allowed to be apes.
I hope my favorite dystopian novel - Brave New World - gets a mention!
I think that was our book of the month about 2-3 years back
A soma a day keeps the jim-jams away!
The Status Civilisation by (Robert Sheckly I think) explored people pre-programmed to dob themselves in if they think they have committed a crime and are then taken to another world where there are almost no rules, to survive - or not - by their own resources. A thought provoking story.
I have been listening to Isaac's videos every night for over one year. Okay, almost every night, I have listend to early earth history some times, but I basically always start a playlist when I try to sleep. Since I have quite horrible sleep disorders and I can't have my room quiet because that is horrible for myu anxiety, I have watched all videos many times. I think I like upward bound and megastructures the most
Woot, double video week!
gee, what a time to discuss this specific topic.
Topics are chosen and scripts are written months in advance, but sometimes there are uncanny coincidences.
@@Deadlyish i know right?
this feels all too relevant
China?
@@MrKIMBO345 yep and soon to be US
North Korea too
From Russia with love))
I think this is relevant for any authoritarian country though))
@ゴロゴロ It's not there yet obviously but we can see the writing on the wall.
I love you isaac! You’ve taught me so much over these past several years!
I'm a moderate futurist, but for the future here's a piece of wisdom that's obvious and yet insistently forgotten about: never, and I mean never, centralize whatever can be decentralized. That includes power, but also energy distribution and distributed computing.
If techno-ethics becomes a thing, centralization of something decentralized would be considered immoral or at least unethical.
Well said. A.I. should be a tool anyway, not a master. We have computer programs right now, which is what an A.I. should be. Something to make computing and calculating easier. But then the authority should rest in human hands, and as you said, decentralized human hands.
@@shorewall Humanity still has this leap of faith to make, and it may just lead to ruin, but we have to take the risk. We have to trust in the next individual's capacity, and stop underestimating people. Give people the power to do so, and they build miracles out of dreams.
@@gandalf8216 And if they fail, they don't take down the whole group. Besides, Heaven is different for different people. You can't build one heaven for all people.
Bonus episode!? Great Sunday surprise, thank you Isaac!
This was one of the best episodes ever. This was so close to the ultimate realization.
Hey, you play Stellaris right? Because this sounds a lot like a Rogue Servitor civilization.
I like to think my Rogue Servitors just makes all bio trophys high all the time.
The Culture be like
Stellaris is a very good game. AI determined exterminator is my favorite civilization type.
@@TzarBomb it is a bit unfun to play against them
I mean, these ideas in Stellaris are not original to Stellaris
Another well thought out episode.
Thanks guys
Early and appropriate. Well done Isaac.
Using the image for Doctor Who with Rory and Amy implies season 6 is the most recent season worth acknowledging. I agree
Imagine... What if... The machine overlords have the same behavior as Mark Suckerbid and Jack Dorsey.
i know. what a time to release such a video. i was expecting a "the election was called for joe biden" blurb under the video.
LMAO we fecked boi
Isaac really brings about such amazing points ! Amazing 👍
For the past several months these episodes have had minor video issues; it's like a GIF on autoplay where it sort of jerks to a stop and starts over again. At first I thought it was my computer, but other videos on youtube didn't have the issue and I noticed it on other devices as well (only on SFIA videos). It only affects the video and not the audio, but once you notice it, it kinda distracts from the discussion. Has anyone else noticed this?
I have not. But have had more glitches in general over the last few days.
@@jhoughjr1 Same here. Over the last week I've watched three CZcams live streams that glitched out similarly with the video skipping around and audio outright freezing. May just be a coincidence though.
They are just markers for individual frames with subliminal messaging. By the end of the clip, for some reason, you feel like a Pepsi.
This reminds me of Aldus Huxley's Brave New World. Terrifying.
people should wake up. its not just some conspiracy theory. powerful people have plans for the world.
I've never seen Brave New World as being that horrible. It seems that way, right up till the end when you find out that the society actually does allow people who don't want to be happy to go live on islands and write philosophical treatises on the wonders of misery. The society is just not going to force other people, the ones who do want to be happy, to read them. I count it firmly in the Utopia column.
@@jesseberg3271 I can see where you're coming from, but I do respectfully disagree. The cast system they set up in the book is immutable. The gamma children are given alcohol as fetuses to make them slower for example. I find the society created to be horrifying. I appreciate the engagement though on an excellent book.
@@jesseberg3271 I agree with you. I think that with fairly minor tweaks (microprocessors instead of deltas and epsilons), it would be preferable to what we actually have. Forcing half the working population into the precariat, as our system does today, is not a high bar to beat... I think the main problem is that I think it is infeasible. E.g. producing the right mix of workers for needs anticipated decades down the line. Centrally managed economies regularly screw up on much shorter time scales than that (and historically command economies have screwed up quite murderously...)
@@jeffreysoreff9588 I give you that it's not a practical system, most Utopias aren't.
I also agree with your point, although I think it's possible too go to far in the other direction as well. There has to be some level of central planning, or you wouldn't have a full road network. Mind you, I'm advocating for something like South Korea, where the Government sits down with corporate leaders to discuss the Nation's priorities, not, say, North Korea, where they don't have corporate leaders, or food, or lights.
Issac, you are looking good man! Great scarf and shirt combo!
For post-discontent, the first thing I thought was the Volians after being conquered by the Aschen in SG1. Great episode! 👍
Speaking of discontent, once our local camping equipment store had a Winter sale. The sign said 'Now is the winter of our discount tent'
Thankyou Isaac.
Keeping people fit and busy working on farms producing food, while machines make and maintain everything else, seems like a good idea. Idle hands are the devil's workshop, and sedentary living is bad for physical and perhaps mental health.
I’ve always thought it would be fascinating if the Borg from Star Trek presented themselves not as ruthless conquerors, but as compassionate missionaries. Their mission is to introduce all sapient life to the utter contentment of Union, immersion into a true and vast community of minds, the ecstatic dissolution of the Self, an end to the loneliness of Ego. They never force or compel anyone into Union, because any sapient brave enough to overcome the Ego and join them for but an hour never wants to go back. This makes them a far more difficult “enemy” to fight, when so many citizens, plagued by loneliness and discontent, join the Borg willingly and fight the government that tries to keep them from joining in droves.
When the Borg had to work with the Voyager crew to defeat Species 8472, and they had difficulty communicating, they should have offered Janeway some basic interface equipment that would allow the Voyager crew to join together, just with one another, so they could get through this crisis together more efficiently--but also planting the seed of humans desiring Union.
I thought after Hugh was reassimilated and Lore gave them emotions something like that would happen but then they just became a hive mind dictatorship.
an episode or two of voyager featured the Borg cooperative.
@@cosmicrider5898 Yeah, that was disappointing. I prefer more challenging storylines than TV usually offers.
very relevant
there are no accidents
- master uguey
I love Isaac Arthur's practical approach to A.I.
Great episode, and very likely
Thank - you .
Best creator on CZcams, by far
Hello Issac!
One of your best episodes! I don’t buy the argument of “people aren’t likely to make mistakes” though.
I've always referred to societies like this as "False Utopia's", stuff like Logan's Run and Brave New World basically. Post-Discontent seems like a more accurate description though.
I don't know. False Utopia seems like everyone would secretly hate it maybe but its nice enough so why bother?
Whereas Post discontent means no one is upset about it? They don't even think about it being wrong in anyway.
Awesome video! brings up teh idea of a nuanced post discontentment society in which some human equivalent xenos is selectively augmented and ranked within a society for the sole purpose of fuffilling ever greater specified tasks and "mind sets that require them to go against there biological programming". Also love that lovecraft reference haha, gotta devours all those lesser minds, you know they build up societies on there own! I mean really, what better cattle than the cattle that spreads, builds its own shelter, and feeds itself, all while having a delectably juicy intellect to devour.
This conversation scares the hell out of me...
24:30
"And they might spread out to spread the joy of joining their Post Disconsent Society, or else."
OMG it's the Tau!
Another telling Heinlein quote was "You can have peace and you can have freedom, but don't ever count on having both at at the same time."
In a distopian society someone's young daughter reports them for having bad thoughts that they themselves weren't even aware of.
@ゴロゴロ
Equilibrium
Man, this channel is one of the best things in life. How do you write the episodes?
having the Skill Share commercial at the end of the post-scarcity video makes it sound like you're brainwashing us into a post-discontent creative society
Great episode to post while 25k troops occupy Washington DC.
I did it y'all! It took me a year and a half, but I am finally fully caught up on SFIA episodes!
This reminded me of one Netflix Death Love and Robots chapter called the Swarm, where the Swarm is a post discontent alien society and actually the way to achieve this in that case is not uplifting, but the conquer and assimilation of new species to the swarm, basically turning every new species into cows... turning on and off the intelligence used to face challenges needing that intelligence
god damnit man u are doing so good at overcoming your rhoticism
Nice!
gg on being first
One sci fi antagonist species you’ve not touched on, but is a great example of what this video is about,
The Observers from “Fringe”.
About humans taking orders from machines willingly: They have been (willingly?) taking orders from traffic lights for around a century.
Ohh, just in time to listen to while I restring a guitar.
Any chance of having guitar stringing robots to ease my discontent Isaac? =P
Solution: never change strings and make yourself post-discontent to rusty strings
@@certifiedpossum8655 Oh but strings do break at times, even if you tell them not to. I even got struck by a string that broke, that fucker hurt. I am just glad it didn't get my eye :P
@@MantraHerbInchSin solution: never play guitar and make yourself post-discontent to the idea of not playing guitar
That's crazy because I was changing strings on mine too ! The odds are crazy low considering I don't recall seeing anyone talking about doing that in comments in all the other SFIA videos. Anyway, changing the string is not a source of discontent for me at all. It's even a special moment for me, full of care for the instrument.
I am close to post discontent now. It began when cyberpunk 2077 came out. I’m on PS4 though, so I keep wind up looking at a crash log, either very hungry, in desperate need to use the bathroom, or realizing I passed out in my chair again.
The line we draw between post-discontent and post-scarcity is arbitrarily based on if we modify the initial desires of the population. If we had post-scarcity society with our current desires, then superhuman or aliens might think we were post discontent because of our lack of desires.
Exactly
What a treat
Heh, cow’s ruminating on their breakfast.
I'm surprised you went the whole video without referencing the book "Brave New World" I think it's a very good example of a post discontent society as you described here.
Geez, I feel you made this for me. I write Fantasy rather than Sci-Fi and I wrote a post-discontent society
The best example of post-discontent civilization I know, highlighting the difference between post-scarcity VERY strongly, is Stanislaw Lem 'Futorological Congress' and it's continuation 'The Mask'. Congress is needed for context, The Mask deals with the post-discontent stuff. Both rather short and entertaining books, The Mask also quite scary in the end. Highly recommend reading, you will find all Lem books cheap and translated in billion languages with no problem, your local library might even have a copy, depending where you live.
yesss, finally another Lem fan! the futurological congress was absolute psychedelic genius, and I can't for the life of me figure out why he isn't talked about more...
I'm amazed that you got through this entire episode without a single reference to The Matrix. :-)
There is an option that is kinda talked about a little in this episode that got overshadowed.
That the people are genuinely happy for good reason and they are truly free.
They're happy because there own individual hierarchy of needs are met to the fullest that they themselves can fulfill it. And true freedom is the ability to make bad choices not that you actually make bad choices.
Gotta grab a drink and a snack!
Post-discontent episode
You should already have a drink and a snack
This video doesn't need to try and imagine the future. Humanity has already reached a stage where all basic needs *could* be met, but aren't. We are living in a post-discontent society right now.
How about an analysis of Ian Banks' "Culture" series, which takes this theme to an extreme?
You should add in the society of “The Promised Neverland” as an example.
Yes. It basically is the only human farming society that actually makes sense
Media has many avenues it can explore... but it is certainly important to maintain an optimistic outlook; while maintaining proper care for potential disaster.
Them's fightin' words!
A shiny artiperson points to their nametag "Hello, I am your Robot Overlord." Gives a thumbs up.
That's what I needed today.
21:50 My head teacher from Highschool can confirm that this happened!
But not for fun.
@@calvingreene90 Well that depends, my late brother was one such kid for whom everything is funny!
@@radicaledwards3449
Except for the crazy they are not doing it for fun.
Good example of Post-discontent society in cinema is the Equilibrium movie, while the science behind "feelings blocking drug" is questionable, the view on society turned into happy cattle because of nontradiotional form of conditioning is interesting, and it is quite good action movie too
Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious summer by this machine of york
"One of us...one of us..."
6:42 ...I do sometimes grow turnips in my garden, however i do noy own a burlap smock 😎
In Asimov's stories, Multivac could not be disobeyed. A nation was free to ignore the "advise" of how much wheat to plant, but it would know that nation would react that way and issue different advise that when disobeyed in the anticipated manner, would result in the behavior that Multivac actually wanted.
That is, it would manipulate you into doing what it wanted, even as you think you are not doing what it wants.
Are you familiar with the dystopian RPG "Paranoia"? I think you would have a blast with it after this episode. (great stuff as usual BTW, cheers)