Cryonics: Frozen Civilizations
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- čas přidán 13. 01. 2021
- Cryonic freezing offers a pathway to reap future medical technologies today by preserving someone for future restoration, but what would the impact of this technology be on civilization?
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Credits:
Cryonics: Frozen Civilizations
Science & Futurism with Isaac Arthur
Episode 273; January 14, 2021
Written, Produced & Narrated by Isaac Arthur
Editors:
Jason Burbank
Jerry Guern
Keith Blockus
Cover Art:
Jakub Grygier www.artstation.com/jakub_grygier
Graphics:
Jeremy Jozwik www.artstation.com/zeuxis_of_...
Music:
Miguel Johnson migueljohnson.bandcamp.com - Věda a technologie
A chilling concept.
Well, I thought it was cool.
It ain't easy being cheesy
A nice way to break the ice.
The dad joke thread.
Wha,wha... bu doom doom ttssss! “If you get that one, you’re a legend”!
"Frozen tomb worlds"
Necrons it is
Necrons in ugly sweaters, sippin hot chocolate you mean
Man -- neocron had some of the best immersion when it came out,. I was so hooked on that game.,
Commenting from Hubris
XENOS!
@@Usual_User Eisenhorne:Xenos, to be precise.
I am a real, fully-funded cryonicist. Our movement has existed for well over half a century, and has about 2,500 members worldwide. Almost 200 people are already in stasis at facilities in Arizone (Alcor), Michigan (Cryonics Institute) and Moscow (KrioRus). Virtually all cryonics is done for purposes of extending life, the idea being that you are preserved until a possible date when the damage of whatever killed you can be reversed, but also the damage from the vitrification itself. It is not only for the "super rich" as the media loves to claim, and no Walt Disney is not one of us. It is also untrue cryonics almost always involves preserving only heads (neuropreservation). That service is only available at Alcor, anyway. My own contract is full-body.
It's refreshing to read comments that acknowledge that cryonics truly does make sense; the amount of people who I've heard say they're "intelligent and evidence-driven" who then ignore the evidence supporting cryonics just because it's positive is ridiculous.
@@quinnsmith8421 Most of their criticisms is because revival is as of yet unproven, but they don't get that that is exactly the point of cryonics. I have a friend who describes cryonics not as a solution, but rather as a "very slow ambulance, driving towards a hospital in the future".
say hi to fry for me
Two questions. First is that I assume that facilities have strategies in place for long term solvency. But if worse comes to worse and funds dry up, what happens to the clients? The second may be a chicken or the egg thing: are there efforts occurring to determine the legal status of a successfully revived client, or can that only occur after (or if) the very first client is successfully revived? Thanks!
@@MentalParadox That's a good way of explaining it. Whenever anybody tries to mock me for supporting cryonics, I ask for actual technical criticisms, which they never know how to do (because there probably aren't any), and when I point out that all of the evidence in the literature supports cryonics, it's goes in one ear and out the other.
Cryonicist here who's actually attended and assisted with the initial steps of the process. While you didn't get into too much detail on the suspension process itself, this is definitely one of the better videos on the subject I've seen.
The one point I would take issue with is in staying that cryonics patients are "dead". It's a semantic argument, but cryonicists often define death as "the irreversible cessation of life processes." If they can be restored and reanimated then they aren't dead.
We can go a step further, though. Some would argue that you aren't *really* dead until your connectome has degraded to the point where the original neutral pattern can no longer be inferred. This is called "information theoretic death", and once you're at that point, you're gone.
Thanks for trying to clear up misconceptions about cryonics. Only a few person so far in this comment section who have mentioned that patients who are cryopreserved under optimal conditions are not dead.
I hope your book is a science fiction novel that seamlessly incorporates the ideas explored on this channel while fundamentally remaining a personal story about a cast of characters.
I'd really love to see a cast of characters inside a gardener ship. You could probably incorporate a lot of the elements from this channel with that theme.
And they are all the same person but not
Fan art that has subject habitability of predicative characters
Watched it on Nebula earlier. Good vid, again you push these ideas to their logical limit and their impact on society. Something that is gravely missing in much sci-fi. Thanks for feeding my hunger for knowledge and my imagination.
The concept of freezing cultures reminded me of the Trisolarans from The Three Body Problem, who evolved to dehydrate themselves in response to prolonged chaotic periods on their planet.
half of their emperors were drunk at their own coronation
It make me think of another book by Alastair Reynolds "Chasm City" (honestly one of my favorites by the author), where half the story follow Sky Haussman in the generational fleet toward a new planet. In this scenario, the "colonists" were all frozen, and the "crew" was there to take care of the ship and the colonists, generation after generation, never to go to sleep. SPOILER WARNING INCOMING.
As time goes on, after the destruction of one of the ships, tensions between the remaining ships grew into what was described as a cold war, each crew becoming its own nation wary of the other, when they were supposed to be united. Even worse, Sky himself, to allow the ship he was now captain of, did the unthinkable: he shaved off weight from his ship by cutting loose cryopods, first of dead colonists, then of living one, crossing a line the other ships did not dare to cross. That allowed Sky to decelerate later than the other two remaining ships, giving him and the remaining colonists the "edge" that later gave the planet its name, "Sky's Edge", to claim the best territories. In the Reynolds Universe, Sky's Edge is to the present day, centuries later, still in a constant war resulting from this act.
When you talk of cultural divergence in long interstellar voyages, sounds about right.
Or are they "mostly dead" and need a "Miracle Max" to revive them?
If youve got the mutton, hes got the miracle!
but i'm not quite dead yet!!
bring out yer dead, bring out yer dead
Because there’s a big difference between MOSTLY dead, and all dead... Pease open his mouth...
Now THAT was a cold open!
I recently had a conversation with Aubrey de Grey from the SENS Research Foundation in which he stated that he's thinking of different ways to help the underfunded research of a new cryopreservation method that might replace vitrification called "helium persufflation".
That's really interesting.
Could you please expand on that?
@@francescodalo8828 The SENS spin-off company, Arigos Biomedical, the only research organization conducting helium persufflation research (for the purpose of creating reversible cryopreservation for organs in general) has recently run out of funds, so Aubrey has been thinking of helping to create an online crowdfunding campaign for Arigos to continue conducting the research, but he also has other plans that might not involve crowdfunding; he told me that he'll keep me posted.
When I was a kid and I first heard about cryonics, I was sure it was something I wanted to do myself. As I got older I kinda gave up on the idea. Now you have me considering it once again lol.
I say go for it. Consider the risks to the potential benefits. Is there anything to dissuade you from taking the chance to save yourself from a short life, to live for much longer, even indefinitely, and in a radically improved (and improving) world? Conversely, once you're dead, if the gamble turns out to have been wrong, you're just right back to where you would have been anyway.
In reality it can't happen for long periods. Radioactive decay will destroy your cells beyond repair within a few decades. Robots to repair cells is a pipe dream.
Go for it! Something I've found is that very often, unless someone you know is already signed up, there's a significant lag time between deciding to sign up for cryonics and actually doing so. In my own case it was a few years, and what really motivated me to finally do it was attending a panel discussion on cryonics at a sci-fi convention followed by a lengthy conversation with the participants afterward. My wife and a couple of friends signed up not long after me.
The following year I got to be onthat same panel, and did so for several years afterward.
@@procactus9109 Fortunately, it most likely won't have to. It only needs to keep you preserved and intact until we have the means to repair and revive you. Barring a collapse of civilization or equivalent catastrophe, this is likely to arrive within the next century, and some predict much sooner than that.
@@procactus9109 Not in decades. Normal background radiation, including all sources, is only 2-6 mSv/year. Meanwhile 3 000 mSv is usually survivable with modern hospital care, so we are talking about hundreds or thousands of years.
Nice episode but I would have enjoyed more speculation on future potential reanimation techniques and societal integration for people being cryo-preserved today!
Maybe interviews with Max More and Dennis Kowalski on the current and near-future state of cryonics development might make a good future episode!
"Peersa for the State. Turn this ship of the mind around and continue your mission, Isaac. Corpsicles are not permitted mission alteration. That is all."
That "Game of Thrones" reference... lol
Thank you for this video, just found your channel.
I have always considered ALCOR as an option. I appreciate you looking at the bigger picture for AFTER we are unfrozen.
This is by far one of the most intriguing videos on the topic. Subscribed!
I became an Alcor member last month.
Isaac, I'm sure you hear this a lot but thank you very much for your work. I've never heard anyone at any point, analyze as many different possibilities about future tech in such a frank and realistic manner as you do.
You've got some serious talent man, I hope it takes you to all your goals and beyond. Stay safe!
The real mystery is how this channel doesn’t have 1mil + subs....
Spread the word...
Not interesting enough for "UFO mysteries" while nobody from SFIA would panic, just shrug when seeing aliens. And it's too wild for the "present", even if it's based upon known science which keeps shifting (yesterday I read about new subatomic particles being discovered). Massmedia fit somewhere for sure.
@@PaulZyCZ I always figured that if people from SFIA saw aliens, they would ask for alien beer.
Most people think science is magic for nerds and are more interested in sitting in hotels, taking cruises or snorting cocaine from rappers cocks. Many of my friends still think that colonisation of mars is at least 100 year off. Concepts like dyson swarms or colonising galaxy may as well not exist, thats how bizzare this channel is to them. Sad, because its very inspiring and thought provoking.
@@HalIOfFamer
Isaac subscribers paradox
Pretty cool, but relying on future discoveries that we can't show to be possible, leaves me a bit cold on the idea. Still, my icy reaction is overcome by optimism. I'll just chill and see what the future brings.
Um... Snowball.
If nano robots r used for repair every cell to their prime, Human being can literally become immortal.🤔🤷
even extending lifetimes to say 300+ years should lift humanity to another level, since everybody has alot more time to aquire skills, wisdom, knowledge, etc.
Still only biological immortality. True immortality (it being impossible to die/be killed) is more a concept of fantasy.
we can become immortal in most senses of the word, but not "literally immortal." because to be literally immortal means to be impossible to die no matter what. we can spread copies throughout the universe with infinite energy and limitless instantaneous travel, but you'll still have a chance of death if all those copies are simultaneously destroyed
@@knoooby5607 Also George R.R. Martin will have time to finish his novel.
And be used as an eternal slave by the elites. You'd have to be naive to think any new tech won't be used to further control us and restrict our freedoms. By the time this tech exists it will be used to transport brain-dead clone slaves to run the harvesting operations on distant moons or whatever. None of it will ever be used for the benefit of all of mankind.
Really appreciate your work Isaac. I literally can't wait for a new episode even before starting the latest one.
Yet another informative video on a topic of heavy Sci-Fi interest. Wonderfully explained as always.
But Isaac writing a book!!!😀😀 Oh man I am looking forward to more on this down the road. Best of luck on that too!
What's it been, like 5-6 years of videos now? I don't watch everything but GODDAMN sometimes these videos make me absolutely jubilated to be alive and excited about the future. Thanks as always.
i hope I don't have to freeze myself to see Isaacs book :D
The last time I was this early my molecules were still moving.
Thanks for cleaning up the mess I made while I slept, I'll have my world back now. What?
i think the issue with zero metabolism freezing is the stopping of the electrical signal continuity in the brain, killing the old conciousness . the brain wiould create a new one that thinks its the original, but there is a break in continuity. a revived dead person would be like a teleporter clone, thinking it worked, while the original is dead.
freezing a living person with signals being only slowed down to near standstill, insted of there being no congruent signals, could work though.
Very nice episode with a balanced look at the topic. Peter Hamilton' s commonwealth series had the concept of zero tau chambers. The wealthiest and most powerful faction, the edenists provided that's service if I remember correctly.
I love your content!
Have you seen Raised By Wolves? They touch on existing in virtual reality while hibernating on a colony ship.
Typically I pause my conciousness on days that aren't Thursday, but awake twice a month on Sundays, too.
Keep up the videos, I look forward to them Everytime.
Love em.
Looking forward to your book!
He's writing a book!!! YEEEESSSS!!!
I’ve been waiting for this one.
Best part of the week for me, what 2+yrs running now? Man I remember when these videos had sub titles, what a difference finding something you love makes in your life. Also any chance of a Joe rogan crossover? Imagine Isaac, Joe, and Elon on one pod?!
They surfeited with honey and began
To loathe the taste of sweetness, whereof a little
More than a little is by much too much.
I used to advocate for Isaac doing Joe Rogan. As of now, I'm in the camp of "Isaac is too good for Joe." J.R. pushes too much misinformation and I don't want SFIA tainted by it.
joe rogan was great... on news radio. elon musk needs to pay people better. the show is awesome, in small part, bc these people aren't on it
Maybe Tim Pool's Timcast IRL
Jeffrey Dahmer was a promising amateur researcher in this field but he bit off more than he could chew.
That's not even groan-worthy.
Take your like and leave
@@TalkingAboutYooh I groaned. Also upvoted.
@@willfitz100 To quote Melville's Bartleby: "Deez nutz, bruh!"
What did Jeffrey Dahmer say to Lorena Bobbit?
"You gonna eat that?"
Vertical zero g sleeping lady is taking being asleep! I saw her eyes open!
Big fan of all your work. I literally had the thought of you writing a book about 5 mins before you said it and am excited to learn what it will be. Be it sci-fi, or a SFIA book that is more in depth than Noah Yuval Harari's 'Homo Deus', I know that it will be well written and amazingly thought out :D
*Isaac Arthur* you rock!
I like the way many possibilities are thought through.
This video gave me chills
I'm a little late to the party been a little busy haven't been able to keep up on videos but I am so excited for that book
Posted 11 mins ago, Just enough time to get some coffee.
Thanks SFIA team!
Cool episode.
I was thinking of Xenos when you started talking about freezing for intervals. Eisenhorn series is my favourite WH40K book series
This helps my story a lot!!!
It's a bit chilly in the comment section XD good episode! I've watched so many of your videos over lockdown 2.0!
Cooler shorter episode, nice to listen to while eating lunch today
Quite a cool concept.
Ah! I'm working. Can't wait to watch this one.
I waited until night... when I was supposed to be in a deep slumber. :)
Last time I was this early it was spring time on Mars
I like this concept of freezing cities. Reminds me of amber in Fringe. On a small scale one could amber a whole terminal section of a hospital or a hospice.
I recommend Three Body Problem, if you haven't read it. In it, there is a civilization that routinely goes into hibernation. Don't want to say anymore because there are so many cool twists. One of the best sci-fi series I've read.
This will be a frozen treat!!!
I actually look forward to Thursday because of your uploads. I wish fans didn't ruin things. I imagine your discord could be an interesting place.
Nahhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
What, me worry ?
@@wesleypatterson2883 i know you cannot see it but, this is my confused face.
I could imagine civilizations that can freeze a large part of their civilization for a long period of time might also have A.I. that they leave to learn and simulate experiments/scenarios during that time so that, when the people wake up, the A.I. may have developed solutions to some of their problems or otherwise continued the general advance of technology (maybe nothing significant, but rather just making current technology more efficient and requiring less energy & resources to perform the same function)
I think it might be difficult for nanobots to repair cellular damage to frozen tissue while it's still frozen. After all, you froze it specifically to keep it from changing. Probably gonna have to get good at reassembling folks from puddles of slush instead.
That doesn't sound accurate at all. Do you have any technical reasons to think that?
@@quinnsmith8421 Yeah, I was referring to a specific part of the video. I'll post a timecode and explanation when I get a chance.
Cool video!
8:31 Blink.
Don't
I wish that Alan Alda would get cryogenically frozen. He has done so much for optimistic science popularization.
Been waiting for this all morning thanks Isaac 👌
I was thinking of Xenos when you started talking about freezing in intervals.
Could you do an episode about galactic quenching and how a type 3 civilization might prevent it?
Nice!
Isaac please grant us a fat 40 minute video like the old days!
Cryoburn by Lois McMaster Bujold. Actually the entire series.
Cool vid
Thats pretty cool
nice!
One of my fear and reason why i dont let my dead body be frozen at all is: What if i be defrozen in a world where i have no human rights? Like i am just a pet for someone. What if they just tested the defrozen process for someone "more important" and i get billed and thrown out into a world ones they done with me?
I dont like to start a new life in a world where everything i knew is outdated or [redacted]!
Sound like a perfect start for an advanture game if i keep thinking.
Yeah, we need both robust scientific and cultural institutions for this to work. Given that there are currently frozen people today, I guess a win-win would be to help build that stable future, proactively.
Most likely you would wake up periodically. If you wanted to travel 100 years into the future you would not just sleep until the year is there, you would wake up every year, or every decade; that way you can be aware of current events and make the decision to go back to sleep or stay from there. On top of that, while you are frozen, you might be able to live in a virtual world for the time being, that way your brain stays functional, and you can be in a simulated world. Perhaps you would be able to communicate with the real world from there. It’s analogous to the theory that the first interstellar colonization ship would contain consciousnesses instead of actual humans. You can store them on the ship, and they can live in a life model decoy back on earth, mars, wherever they want, while making the trip. That would eliminate the psychological effects of space travel while minimizing risk, weight, cost, and much more.
I love Thursdays and getting a new episode of SFIA.
Bored? With centuries and more of SFIA content? Not possible Sir!
At the end of the video i was strangely reminded of the plot in Kill la Kill, with some tweaking.
Hi Isaac!
I think that freezing people has more advantages. First of all limited space and second that you can accelerate far beyond 1G. Best Regards PJ
transferring the essence of a persons "id" or ego into an A.I. unit would be great . When it nears the end of it's life expectancy it could transfer to the next A.I. unit . Not gonna happen I know but trying to keep a human body going is a mute point
How do you create all these fantastic images on small budgets. Thanks a lot anyway for all the mind expanding ideas too. How do I donate to you once only through PayPal; some patreon websites have but most, like yours do not. A whole lot of monthly subscriptions are too difficult to manage.
Isaac Arthur should do a video on the first rules of warfare
This episode brings home the point that Time is an Illusion.
writing a book eh? reading about a better tomorrow sounds like a great way to ignore the past year!
Damage does not cease because you froze it, it only slows down untill reheated, such as by anything like a nanite moving nearby. Even if you manage to get it to near absolute zero with magically minimal damage, then the intrinsics radiation would accumulate and destroy everything, long before we have the tech to fix it. That said the damage caused isnt on the level of destroying a few water mains. Its on the level of crushing and tearing every single brick apart while keeping it in roughly the same place. The kind of nanotech required is possibly not clarke tech, but we will have nanites for tearing cancer cells apart for centuries before we get there.
I caught this video within 30 minutes of it going live!
Frosty episode🥶
Isaac Arthur on Lex Friedman.
It must happen.
This video was...cool 😎
What should we called them? people that live in cryonic worlds?
Cool guys?
Freezing buddies?
It's Commander Solo and he's still frozen in carbonate!
I would like to hear Mr. Arthur address the criticisms of using the Kardeshev measuring stick discussed over on the channel 'Unveiled". They proposed that better measures of how advanced a civilization is are Carl Sagan's 'INFORMATION MASTERY' and John D. Barrow's 'MICRODIMENSIONAL MASTERY'.
.
Rather than expanding to use ever increasing amounts of energy and matter - moving OUTWARD as it were, that it may make more sense for advanced civilizations to move ever INWARD. In the case of Microdimensional Mastery the focus is on having better control over ever smaller things until you have total mastery over atoms and spacetime itself as opposed to Kardeshev stressing mastery over ever larger things until you end up toying with galaxy clusters.
.
I imagine these 3 scales aren't mutually exclusive an in many instances will overlap. I don't see a K2 civilization not having gargantuan information processing power and I imagine that a K2 would also be quite adept at playing around with atoms if not subatomic particles and spacetime. I would love to hear Mr. Arthur address this debate since indeed it may make no sense for a civilization to even try to go beyond K2. I will include a hyperlink so that anyone reading this (hopefully someone who is able to propose it to Mr. Arthur or even Mr. Arthur himself). I doubt he has either the time or desire to read every message left on his videos, especially not a rant this long. The video I was talking about can be reached by going to
czcams.com/video/Y-FYaZ8Eyzs/video.html
Was dissapointed Eisenhorn didn't get a mention, only to be surprised when it was in the second half.
“Redemption Ark” - Alastair Reynolds has this method in the plot line, and very good sci-fi and gadgets book.
Where do you get your stock footage?
Just thought about this some more. If you were going to be Cryogenic traveling creature you'd need to make some changes to the body. Eliminate hair, nose, ears, and any other items that would just freeze and risk breaking off. Then the body would need to have a very small cross section but have large sinuses to allow ease of chilling the brain and rewarming it.
The chick at 08:31 didnt get the memo to keep your eyes closed for the duration of the scene 🤣 she just wants out of that thing and a bowl of ice cream or something 🤣
In the Judge Dredd comic books if any criminal were to be mortally wounded the world be cryogenically frozen until they could thawed out so they could face justice for their actions.
“Hey remember to unfreeze me in 5 minutes alright”
“Alright alright”
*100 years later*
“What? What happened?”
“Yeah turns out we didn’t have the tech to unfreeze people back then, so we had to wait.”
“So you didn’t unfreeze me?”
“Oh no, we did try, that’s actually the reason why you’re missing your left arm”
Not that a missing are should be a biggie at that tech level. It be worth it.
Awesome that you mentioned Eisenhorn. In the grim darkness of the far future nothing is that realistic. Lol
Interesting
Ayyyy eisenhorn nice I read that recently
Yeah right I am going on ice cryonics to wait for the next installment of "War against the Chtorr".
I wrote a short story about a cycler style ship.
Could medical nanotechnology in the future develop so much that we can revive even mummified corpses like Otzi The Iceman?
No, I'm afraid that even the most advanced molecular nanotechnology would not be able to help corpses.
@@quinnsmith8421 Isn’t that what all cryogenically preserved people are currently? They are corpses before they are even frozen.
@@davidroddini1512 Define 'corpse.'
There's a difference between someone that's *just* been declared legally dead in a hospital, with a cryonics team standing by to immediately start working on cooling and perfusing them (the ideal situation, as they can't legally touch you any earlier), and someone that's been dead for 5000 years, at no lower than common ice temperatures.
Which one do you think is more nearly intact and ultimately reparable?