Masters of the Air: The Best B-17 Movies to Watch
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- čas přidán 20. 02. 2024
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We've gotten a lot of questions about Masters of the Air, so Michael runs down the best movies about B-17 Flying Fortresses in World War II to watch if you're enjoying the new miniseries. - Zábava
My grandmother, who passed in 1989, worked on the B-17 lines during WW2. She was so proud of every one of the planes that went off the line. I remember Boeing fully rebuilt, I believe, a B-17F in 1985 for the 40th anniversary of the end of the war. They flew it over Seattle. I stood outside with her as she watched it fly overhead. I could actually see this usually happy but hard-nosed woman I looked up to crying.with love and joy.
My dad worked at NASA in the 60’s and 70’s. I got to meet Ed Blakey in the 80’s, Chuck Yeager, and Jay Honeycutt. I got my single engine pilots license when I was 16. I love planes, flying and Masters of the air.
Soon it’s gonna be Michael’s full time job to accurately review historical shows and keep them safe from reviewers.
“Band of Brother’s Universe” I died
🤣💀🤦🏽♂️👴🏽
What a great video! The 1990 Memphis Belle movie holds a place in my heart because I live where it was filmed. To look up and see B-17F's over my house, being shot at, was an unforgettable experience. During filming, they flew out of Duxford in Cambridgeshire, so when the planes were flying they were genuinely in the skies over Norfolk, exactly where they would have been in WW2. There were 5 actual B-17's there at the time, all converted to F spec. Sally B was the main British based plane. One of them was from France and crashed during filming. I don't know where Masters of the Air was filmed, but, to the best of my knowledge, and I may be wrong, it wasn't in the UK or Norfolk. I definitely didn't see any B-17's over my house this time round!
The taking off scene in Memphis Belle is emotional unparalleled
I first saw 12 O’clock high in the late 60's. I watched it at the time the TV series was on. I watch the movie once a year. There are many great parts of the movie, but the beginning when the Dean Jagger character is in post war London and finds the pirate coffee mug in an antique store window, takes a train and bike to the old airfield. The music, background singing and the wind blowing over the tall grass reminiscing of the wind blowing from the engines. Breaks me up every time I watch it. Great movie and great actor who also breaks me up at the end of White Christmas when he played the retired general.
It’s the Band of Brothers universe. We’re just living in it.
It is indeed a fine movie about the bombing campaign over Europe, the writing and acting first rate, worth repeated viewing.
Great video. I’m a high school US History teacher and my kids watch The Best Years of Our Lives every year. Before we start, they all moan about watching an “old” “black & white” movie. After the first ten minutes, they are absolutely enthralled and can’t wait until the next class to pick up where we left off. Fred’s walk through the B-17 graveyard at the end and him climbing into the nose is so powerful. I agree about Masters of The Air. So far, just excellent. Brutal, but excellent. Thank You for another fantastic episode.
'Best Years Of Our Lives' is a great movie to teach kids about war and its consequenses... (I remember being Very Upset by the 'Homer' character who had lost his hands...) But, AS THE FILM GOES ON, we learn to look past his disability as he has to... The film taught me to THINK ABOUT and CONSIDER what it might be to be disabled and get over my own upset/discomfort at such a thing...) You sound like a good teacher. xx SF
@@stevesandford1437 a lot of movies fall flat because they lack any character development so the audience isn’t emotionally invested in the characters. This film does a good job of showing the world they come from and what conflict they have to overcome.
THANK YOU Gary for your response! xx SF
@@garycollins7750
Interesting Video. Brings back the time when I shot the Belle on Mud Island with Bill Stoots and Frank Donafrio. It was a nice shoot and interview from inside the Belle. I was also lucky to meet on a couple occasions meet John Luckadoo at EAA Convention in Oshkosh WI. I always gave that 100+year old guy the greeting "There's the guy with that Robert Mitchem voice."
Hey Michael. I've been feeling pretty low as of late and when I got the notification that there was a new Retroblasting video I just about jumped for joy. Thanks for making weeks like this a bit more bearable.
My Professor at Business School was a former Air Force Officer. He had us watch Twelve O' Clock High as a lesson in management.
Is that pitcher staring at anyone else, or is it just staring at me?... looking at me... staring into my soul...
I SWEAR I SAW IT BLINK!!!
It plays a key role in "Twelve O'Clock High."
I know with my uncle or my aunt had one of those Robin Hood’s in their living room. My dad was 8th AF and had I known then that this head may have been something related. I’d asked to keep it.
Legend has it, it was found in a boobytrapped Amazon temple.
I have a reproduction of that MUG. That mug was used in 12-O'Clock High as the "red light" is used in Masters of The air.
I have to say that you missed the best part about "The War Lover". Steve McQueen is so believable as 'the hot pilot'. The way he interacts with the machine is something that he was famous for in other films, like "Le Mans" (car), "The Great Escape" (motorcycle), or "The Sand Pebbles" (ship's engine). He had a way of making machines come to life, and he did it with the B-17 in this movie. You can tell he knows his business. Also, as an aircraft commander he is quite believable. His interactions with his crew shows how he took care of them like his little family. Great stuff IMO.
The other part of "The War Lover" that was entertaining was the off duty 8th AF in London England stuff, which was pretty accurate.
Also there is a great buzz job of the tower that is pretty cool.
"I have to say...." The mating song of the pretentious zero.
@@retroblasting excuse me? He man, I just like the film, and how he handled the fort. Nothing 'pretentious'.
I know this was about B-17’s but I wanted to share that my Great Uncle Anthony Musarra was a Sargent in the Air Corps during WW2 & was part of the crew in a B-25 Mitchell. He was awarded, many years later, for his bravery in rescuing his crew mates when their plane crash landed. Thank you Michael for another great video.
Europe or the Pacific? Mucho props to your Great Uncle.
I knew an old salt who was the Flight Engineer on a B-25 so his station was in the Top Turret. Said he went deaf from the drone of the engines that close to the Fuselage. Any loud, sudden noise like a car backfiring and whatever he had in his hands went flying, whether it was a coffee mug or a hammer.
Being born in 55 I grew up with these movies and "12 O`clock High" is one of my favorite war movies. When I was finally able to see a B-17 in person, the first thing that struck me was how small they actually are up close. From the movies I had the impression of some large airplane that had room to spare, but in real life I was amazed at how cramped it must have been with 10 men inside.
I hear you! I was born in 1953 and grew up with a whole gamut of WW2 movies and TV shows and like yourself when I got to see a B-17 up close I was also amazed at how small it was. Pretty ironic considering when the first XB-17 rolled out in 1935 some considered it too big for one pilot to handle!
Trust me, a B-52 actually looks small when you see it up close as well.
And the biggest size shock I've ever gotten was when I saw a Concorde parked next to a 747 at Kennedy Airport back in the 1980s! The Concorde looked like a toy!
Yes. It puts things into perspective when you think about how a modern F-15 is about the same size as a B-17. But man those 17s looked majestic in the air.
@@JMChladek That they did, and still do! Aeronautical engineers had a saying back then (and still might) that went "If it looks good it'll fly good!" That was certainly true in the B-17's case.
As a fairly recently retired USAF Airman, cinephile and military historian. I have to say Masters of the Air is outstanding. Also, thank you for highlighting these incredible films. Especially Twelve O'Clock High (1949). There’s also a 1964 TV series based on the film that ran for 3 seasons. Fun fact, the Toby Jug is also in the last episode of Masters of the Air.
I love black and white movies. I appreciate what you have presented here. I am a born Brit, and Canadian, and served 8 years in the Canadian infantry. There are a lot of RAF/RCAF veterans I got to know over the years. Much thanks and respect to you and I just joined your channel. Thank you.
Great video Michael. My dad was a huge WWII history reader and through him I fell in love with aviation too. Not to your extent. Been waiting for your comments. Am very much enjoying "Masters of the Air"
So glad you brought this up. My father and I were very interested in the B-17. He passed away from cancer last June and I know he would’ve really enjoyed Masters of the Air.
I’m a USAF Crew Chief for the past 15 years, I have been loving Masters of the Air for them acknowledging the ground crew. If you are ever in Delaware, we have the AMC museum right next to my base and have a B-17, C-47 and even part of a Glider along with even more Aircraft at the museum.
For "Twelve O'clock High," stunt pilot Frank Tallman actually crashed one of the B-17s on camera for the opening scene.
I also read that for years the American service academies showed this movie to the cadets as an aid for leadership training.
Thank you for taking the time to show us these movies Micheal! I have been interested in WWII and aviation in general for all my life since I live near a Grumman factory and I have had a chance to see my fair share of WWII aircraft all my life. It really fascinates me how these planes are still in good shape today. Thank you for this.
12 O Clock High is just on another level of old time war movie...
I remember seeing the Memphis Belle sitting outside in Memphis in the 1970s I then saw her again in the late 1990s under a huge tent on Mud Island, it was sad to see her covered in bird droppings but I did sneak past the barrier and touched her horizontal stabilizer, such a famous and legendary plane should be in the Smithsonian or in a museum where she can be properly preserved and appreciated.
Thank you Sir! Loved this video. Bravo Zulu! I grew up reading everything I could about World War II and aviation especially. I quickly became fascinated with the effort of daylight bombing, and specifically the 8th Air Force. You bird-dogged a couple films I didn't know about, so I'll be picking those up! As a former Naval Aviator, I got to live military aviation, and even experience combat and several near catastrophic episodes in flight. We marveled at the heroics of those bomber guys that kept saddling up when they knew the odds were bad. I want you to know that one of my favorite films is "Twelve O'Clock High"; the US Navy used the movie for many years as an additional training film during Naval Leadership Development Program (NLDP) classes, because the film depicts both good and bad leadership so well. I'm really enjoying "Masters of the Air", watching it with my 93-yr old Dad (USAF Retired). I think it's terrific. You're right, these critics of it have no idea they're watching a story real story about real people with more balls than they'll ever have. Glad I found your channel! Thanks again.
One thing I really appreciate about Retroblasting videos is the level of research and detail you bring to every subject. I've always had a fascination with World War 2 and the movies and history born from it. I have seen all these films but did not know all the facts and tidbits you brought in about them, I knew a few but not many. Thank you for this as it's just fascinating to me.
Oh and why didn't you have that one movie from that guy who was in that thing last year 🤣🤣, Kidding of course.
Back in 1995 I did my Army training at what was then called ATR (Army training regiment) Bassinbourn. It was not an RAF base any more. I remember the airfield and the hangers which we used for training, I had no idea of the historical background of the camp at that time. As a fan of the 1990 movie, if I’d known then maybe I would have appreciated being there a bit more.
Thanks for sharing information Michael, I don’t know as much as you but some these films I use watch with my grandfather and it brought some great memories.
This was a really cool upload! So glad I gave it a chance!
Had the honor of working as a volunteer with the Yankee Air Force Museum at their Willow Run location. Spent hours in the bomb bay of “Yankee Lady” taking long exposure high resolution color stills of all the electro-mechanical systems involved on all the bomb release shackles…among other parts of the B-17G.
Memphis Bell is one of my favorite movies. I was able to go into the full size replica plane they built for the movie at a air show in NJ back in the 90s
Thanks for this Michael. Grandpa was an RCAF Lancaster Mk.III mechanic in 1944-1945, and met my grandma out at his airbase in north Yorkshire.
When Memphis Belle came out on video back in the early 90's, my parents hosted a viewing with my grandparents. While I haven't seen it, apparently one of the crew sneaks on their girlfriend onto the plane which then has to take off for a combat sortie or something? Judging by the knowing glances and giggles between my grandparents during these scenes, SOMETHING like that must have occurred between them? They wouldn't say though...
Thanks for the great content!!
I think maybe you need to actually watch the film........
12 O’Clock High is a great film saw it when I was a kid and loved it. Always watch if it comes on.
Like how it starts with the grassy field and the sounds of aircraft and blends into the war time airfield.
I went to see The Cold Blue in a theater when it released, fantastic film! I have a really nice video of B-17 Nine O Nine taking off from Hazleton, PA just a few weeks before the accident that destroyed it, I shot from about 1/2 mile off end of the runway with it flying directly over me. I was devastated when it went down as I had eaten lunch with the crew and talked with them while they were at the Hazleton airport as well as touring the plane itself, it was a beautiful bird.
I'm giving you a "like" because right off the bat you defied my expectation and named a movie I haven't seen . Well done !
This wasn’t a toy video, but it was an awesome video. Your attention to detail and expertise on the subject actually shows through. You don’t do anything half assed, and that’s what makes your channel so great.
I don't even watch Star Wars that often either Michael French, so no worries! These B-17 movies look like classics and fine films to watch! :)
Twelve o’clock High is my #1 World War II movie.
I love your passion for the B-17. A few years ago, I used to live near a small regional airport and one Saturday morning, I heard an unusually loud aircraft flying overhead. I ran outside my backyard and looked up to see a B-17 in the sky and I was so elated. I looked it up and found out that it was some sort of flying exhibition where it would tour from town to town.
The Memphis Belle really is a fantastic movie. I doubt anyone will ever want to invest the money, but it would be a great candidate to be remastered with a little help from modern GGI. One area would be to add the 1,000 bomber stream around the 3 real B17's they managed to get into formation. A scene in particular where the nose of one of the bombers gets knocked off and the poor navigator falls out the front could really use a rework. These are the only parts that let the movie down.
Michael I admire your eloquence and love your zeal in presenting this passionate discourse on a fascinating niche within a genre of films. I have never commented before but I Love your channel and it has really been a source of entertainment and joy for me when I desperately needed it.
May the Force be with you my Friend.
I didn't get much out of Memphis Belle the first time around when it was new, but when I re-watched it a few years ago, I liked it a lot. It's good to know that that personal stuff in combat wasn't a thing, that makes total sense.
Great episode! My grandfather flew with the 15th Air Force 2nd bomber group. I've been doing a deep dive into his service and these movies are fantastic recommendations.
I remember meeting you in person at the Memphis Belle restoration reveal a few years ago.
Glad you're enjoying the show as well!
Hey man! Good to hear from you!
Wow! This ties in perfectly to my other hobby - building scale models. Great vid Michael.
All great points about the movies. As the son of a WWII ETO veteran, I would also encourage people to watch the older movies. One of my fondest memories of watching movies with my dad was seeing “Battleground” for the first time with him. He marveled at the realism of this movie. It was shot on a back lot in Hollywood! It used some members of the 101st Airborne as extras. That’s what makes these older movies so valuable. People remembered what it was like in the war years.
I’d suggest another postwar movie, “The Best Years of Our Lives” from 1946. It starred Fredric March, Dana Andrew’s and Harold Russell. While short of combat footage, it does show B-17s and B-24s ready to be “ repurposed” into other products.
Interestingly, Harold Russell, who did lose both hands in WWII, won an Academy Award for best supporting actor in this film. He lived until 2002
I would also put “Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo” in a list of older must watch movies. Great footage of Van Johnson in actual B-25s.
I was born and raised in Memphis Tennessee, I too grew up seeing the memphis belle sitting on top of a concrete pedestal out in front of the Tennessee army national guard armory in Memphis. After she was moved to mud Island I was in the civil air patrol as a teenager, I helped work the airshow in west Memphis Arkansas, in the 80s, when the largest concentration of airworthy b17s were in one place since WW2. They flew over mid island and dropped rose petals over the memphis belle. I was blessed to meet the lady that the memphis belle was named for.
Bravo! Thanks for defending Masters' honor. I am sick and tired of armchair critics who don't take the time to research the background to the series before offering up irrelevancies. One can't appreciate the series without having read Don Miller's book upon which the series is based. Necessary homework for critics. The actual story is way too vast in scope to include all the huggy kissy content of films like The War Lover, albeit that was a fair adaptation of Hersey's novel. Anyway, some additions for your list: Combat America (Clark Gable), the documentary that prompted Hitler to offer a bounty on Gable - alive - when he heard Gable was flying missions as a B-17 waist gunner; Target for Today, an indepth wartime documentary which explores the effort behind mounting a B-17 mission into Nazi territory; Red Tails, noteworthy for Dabney Coleman's press on the Tuskegee's Col. Benjamin O. Davis to "stay with the bombers" and a topic that may be addressed yet in Masters; and Fortress, produced by the same team that developed Dauntless: the Battle of Midway. I think there is yet another early entry 😅titled Bombardier with Randolph Scott that focuses on a mythical B-17 mission to bomb Japan, something the AAF actually hoped to mount from its bases in the Philippines had the Japanese not struck first. Glad to hear from another devotee of military history. I had the privilege of crewing as a load master on CAF Airbase Arizona's Sentimental Journey in Mesa Arizona, one of the six remaining flying Forts. At the close of Masters' credits thanks is offered up to Airbase Arizona. All the series' B-17 sounds were recorded on SJ, a real privilege.
Seeing 12 0'Clock High inspired me to build my 1st B17 scale model in the early 80's.
I watched Twelve o’clock high as a child in the seventies and got myself interested in B17’s and the 8th air force.also a WW2 film ‘Target for today’ is a good watch I was lucky that in England we have Sally B still flying.its a beautiful aircraft
Love these type of videos! Awesome job!
Man I was stoked to see you did a video about this show and suggestions for other films in the genre. My wife and I are loving MotA, because yes it has that same "lightning in a bottle" that Band of Brothers has. We are also fascinated by WWII and b17. Your history with the flying fortress is incredible, thanks for sharing that. And thanks especially for the recommendations! We will check them out for sure. I remember when Memphis Belle came out, and wondered how it held up. Your description sounds about right. I can't wait to hear you and mastersun review MotA upon its completion, it's been incredible and hearing/watching you two discuss will be the perfect way to wrap it up. Great content as usual!
oh and I also have some military aviation exposure... 2 aircraft carriers and 1 LHA class ship in my 20 years of navy service. I was stoked to deploy with f14's before they decommissioned. And if you ever make it out for SDCC, do yourself a favor and go to balboa Park (even that park has WWII significance) for the air and space museum. It's fantastic. As is the military history museum.
Thanks again!
Speaking of, I'd love to hear more about how you restored that comms shack! That was my rate in the navy, comms/IT. I have maintained antennas and it can be painful yet rewarding work.
This is awesome. Memphis Belle is one of my favorite movies, and the B-17 has such an amazing history
At almost 70 I watched Twelve O'clock High for the first time a few weeks ago, why did I wait so long
Thank you for the clarification of technical issues and accurate historical dates!
I have been to that air force museum. My Godfather took me and my wife and he was also a Vietnam veteran and it was so awesome when we was there they had just done up the Shuttle rockets so awesome
Good recommendations and commentary. I’m going to check out those movies with the early B-17s.
I was arguing with someone on TheWarZone website who was complaining that there was too much CGI in “Masters of the Air” and that the aircraft and atmospheric conditions portrayed at altitude seen in the show don’t look “correct.” I replied that it would be extraordinarily difficult to get the remaining flyable B-17s and opposing German Fighters together in the air at 25,000-30000 feet today. I believe there are less than 5 flyable FW-190 and BF-109 aircraft that “look” right, especially the 109s not counting the HA-112 aircraft that were license built postwar (and sort of look like 109s) as seen in “Battle of Britain” and other movies. I asked if it were better to simply not bother to try to make the miniseries if it was impossible to get all of the exact hardware and “correct” atmospheric conditions and he didn’t have much of an answer to that.
it just depends how the setup is. it's just telling a story, it's up to the filmmakers to work with what they have to make it good and work within styles and shots they can.
you'd also need a lot of looking into how they flew and how they were taught to fly in regards of keeping formations, the attack runs and stuff. memphis belle works all right as it's almost all from within the confines of the singular aircraft and the people the story is about. if it were a modern disney movie the attacking fighters would be zigzagging and doing handbrake turns and shit in the cloud of all the b17s and the homing beacon for where to bomb to destory the secret info would be passed from bunker to bunker via radio in a way making no sense whatsoever at all.
edit: you can get similar sized planes though and with similar acrobatic performance. just costs money and without the right piloting it wouldn't look 'right' and whats worse the right piloting might not feel right to a modern audience anyway
Excellent recommendations Michael. That’s so cool you got to be around the Memphis bell and meet the pilot. I too have an avid interest in world war 2 history. Hope you make more of these videos covering similar topics. Btw I hope you make it to Oregon someday, we have the famous Hughes Hercules H-4 ( spruce goose ) plane here.
Great video. I have a fascination with WWII stories and history. Any chance i had to talk with a WWII vet, I did. I only got to talk with two bomber crew members. One was shot down over occupied France and spent time in a German POW camp. The other was a nose gunner in a Lancaster and showed me the scar that went up his arm from a BF 109 bullet. Cant wait to see Masters of Air. Thanks for the work on this video, i really enjoyed it.
“Band of Brothers universe” is a sentence that convinces me kids who grew up watching primarily MCU movies are a lost generation due to their only exposure to history being in that context. I’d bet you someone out there thinks Hydra was a real faction. Anyway, great video and classic film selection!
My first 'view of your CZcams videos; but not my last. Good to know a fellow Eagle Scout and you were in the Memphis Belle at an early age. My connection with WWII aircraft was my Dad who was in the USAAC, then US AAF. Some years ago, we took him to see the Collings Foundation Wings of Freedom exhibit on July 4. He was sitting in the shade of 9-0-9's right wing looking at the crew door. He said "I flew in that plane. I worked in that plane," and he had in a similar B-17. My sister asked him if he wanted to go for a ride in it. Dad said "No thank you. I've had too many hours in that thing already, and my luck be up." I head alot about those and P47s, and more from his veteran friends. This "Masters" series is good. Thanks
@texhaines9957 WAS THAT THE FORT that fell and killed some 5 people some 4 yrs ago ? It was a Collingsfoundation !! Happened in CT, not the one Cobra crash in Tx 18 moths ago that was simply moronic from a 30 K hrs airline jock. Your dad had a premonition ....(?). O er
@sulevisydanmaa9981 yes, the one that cracked a few years later. My daughter went up in it that day.
@@texhaines9957 DEEPEST CONDOLENCES. Momentarily I extended & elaborated on my loooong comm on this video concerning esp THE WAR LOVER film in its hidden, metaphysical aspects. Suggest read and comment on my comment. Can be found when searching timewise "12 days ago" it says. Repeat : I went purty deep, suggest read the Hersey novel if not yet !! Revisit the film, is on Yt !!!
I grew up with a great appreciation of World War II history and especially the planes, it was my fathers favorite subject, and I watched all the movies related to it. We went to the museum in Ohio together, etc. I still have a B-17 model that he built. I wish he was still around, he would've enjoyed this video. Good job Michael.
my grandad was a halifax pilot, I grew up watching the memphis belle constantly, and never stopped, never lost interest, its all just fascinating, Great Video!
As a kid who grew up loving Memphis bell. I really enjoyed this video and must check out these movies!
Watching this unlocked a memory from my childhood. A gunner trapped in the belly of a hit B17, drawing a picture of the aircraft. Then a cartoon tyre comes out and saves him...
That was an Episode of Stephen Spielberg's TV Series "Amazing Stories."
The Episode was titled "The Mission."
The pilot of the B-17 was played by Kevin Costner. It is very well written with a tremendous cast.
Thanks the the heads up on The Cold Blue, will get that. Love Airforce, 12 o'clock high and Memphis Belle. Have also been a WWII history buff, did paratrooper reenactments but always loved the 8th air force history and B17's. I was lucky to have met Bob Morgan at Wright Patterson AFB in Dayton Ohio back in the 90's.
My wife and I had the (cherished) opportunity to fly as guests on board a B-17 several years ago. This piece of flying history provided an incredible experience that we’ll never forget. Unfortunately, it appears that time and the FAA may make experiencing flight in these elegant warbirds a thing of the past. Thank you for the movie review-you mentioned a couple new ones for my watch-list.
The Band of Brothers universe?!
I cannot process that at all.
Please what article
@@padrespeaks It's not from any article, it's from a comment Michael read online about the show. He says that in the video.
It might have been meant as "The same people that made" or "If you like them, you'll like this" but yeah, WTF
Probably said to make it understandable to all the youngsters out there. While they actually meant created by the same producers from Band of Brothers and The Pacific.
I snickered out loud when I heard that part 😆 some of these self appointed "critics" have no clue.
I’m about the same age as you Michael and I definitely caught the wwii aviation bug in the late 80’s through the 90’s. I built the 1/48 scale B-17G model kit from Revel. Made photo copies of the same book you featured photos out of because it was a reference book you couldn’t check out of the school library. My parents took me to the local air base, McClellan, to see Nine o nine the B-17, and All American, the B-24. For $30 I got to walk through both aircraft. Couldn’t afford the “fly your position” trip (also I think I was too young). Now Nine o nine no longer exists. Maybe someday I can still catch a ride in one.
So far I am loving the series. I got real scared at the opening of the first episode. I said “if this is about wives, and girlfriends, I’m out.” Fortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case.
I was 13/14 when Memphis Belle came out and was obsessed with it
Thank you: most informative for anybody who wants to appreciate the great significance of the air war over Europe.
Just subscribed 👍, where ya been ? So glad I found your podcast! I wrote down all the movies you mentioned. Thank You !!
Welcome aboard! We've been making stuff since 2012.
We watched 12 0 Clock High in graduate school. Excellent film.
A good and interesting watch. I fell in love with the B-17 after watching the 1990 Memphis Belle and then playing B-17 Flying Fortress on the Amiga 500. I’ve been lucky to see Sally B in the UK and actually got to go in her on the ground at an air show once. I later found out Sally B was in the Memphis Belle theme. Really enjoying Masters of the Air. Shot Down by Steve Snyder is also a good read for B-17 enthusiasts
thanks so much for the heads up. my father was the top turrent gunner on the memphis belle. i am going to check out all the films you rec named
Great video, got to walk through B17 Sally B when I was a kid. I recommend the ww2 podcast we have ways of making you talk which just did 6 episodes on tje 8th airforce and 100th bomb group between 1942 to the end of the war.
Great recommendations. Thank you.
Clark Gable’s 1943 ‘Combat America’. Gable actually flew the missions as did Wyler. Gable’s is not as skillfully edited as Wyler’s wartime ‘Memphis Belle’, but definitely worth a watch. When MGM learned that Gable was actually flying missions and getting shot at, they put pressure on the Army Air Force to bring him home. They thought he had a death wish after losing his wife and in some ways he did.
@Atpost334 IT WAS USAF already by that time: 20th June 41 : AAF - March 2 1942 : USAF. out
@@sulevisydanmaa9981 Actually It didn’t become the United States Air Force (USAF) until September 18, 1947.
Great content. Saw Memphis Belle as a 12 year old and was hooked. Love twelve O clock high. While not a great movie kinda surprised Fortress wasn't mentioned. Loving Masters of the air though.
First time viewing your channel but what a THOROUGHLY EXCELLENT precis of the B17, its history and indeed its crews on film. Your engaging knowledge and enthusiasm for the subject shines through.
You correctly point out that the Boeing B17 first flew in 1935 and thus was one of very few bomber aircraft of that era which was still in frontline service in 1945, albeit with many adaptations. (Almost no other bomber airplane designed in the 1930s can make a similar claim. The B17 was ahead of its time.) Although some German designs from the 1930s were still in service at the end of WWII, most were obsolete by 1945 and none matched the B17. (German factories lacked the means to further technologically develop earlier designs as the USA could... Allied bombing had vastly limited the means of production and supplies were limited.)
Your film/TV choices are spot on. (Though I'd be kinder to the 1990 'Hollywood Version' of 'Memphis Belle'!!!! It's romanticised, of course, but this can be excused as it enables the casual viewer to more personally relate to and identify with the crew characters and indeed the machine itself?)
ONE OMISSION is the 1964 US Television Series '12 O'Clock High' loosely based on the Gregory Peck movie you mention. It ran for three seasons, it's available for free on CZcams and it's really not bad. (Dramatic and 'Soap Opera' in delivery but worth a look for the enthuasist....) In B/W, it utilises a lot of genuine WWII combat air footage...
I'd be REALLY INTERESTED in YOUR TAKE, episode by episode, of the current 'Masters Of The Air' series. I think it's excellent but as you are pretty expert on the B17, its crews and indeed the 8th Air Force USAAF campaign in Europe I'd be fascinated to hear/watch how you break it down.
I think a lot of viewers might enjoy that.
Go Raibh Maith Agat (Thank You!) and greetings from Ireland.
xx SF
It might be worth checking out The Way to the Stars (1945). It’s mainly about the RAF, but the latter half of the movie is set around the USAAF and has some B17 footage. Tells a little of the 8th Air Force story through the eyes of the RAF.
The Way to the Stars - 1945 - 1h 49m
czcams.com/video/rbjVrazpjzU/video.html
The Americans arrive with their B17s half way in. Its one of the greatest examples of the British stiff upper lip.
Thank you SO much for posting this! I was actually thinking about searching for WWII Allied bomb campaign movies and documentaries to watch after Masters of the Air. (I re-watched "Battle of Britain" before the TV series) IRL, I was lucky enough to visit RIAT at RAF Fairford back in 2014 on the 70th anniversary of The Battle of Britain, which included legacy flights by Spitfires, Mustangs, Messerschmidts, a Lancaster bomber and great demonstrations from (among others) JAS 39 Gripen, Eurofighter, F16 and The Red Arrows.
This was the first time I watched one of your posts and I really enjoyed it! I am 62 years old and a native of Memphis, TN. As a kid I would often pass the Memphis Belle as she sat outside the old National Guard Armory, and my mom told me her story. As a result, the B-17 is my favorite bomber of WWII. Were you present in 1987 when the Memphis Belle pavilion was dedicated on Mud Island? On that day 7 original B-17s did a flyover. I have some pictures I'd be happy to share. Also, have you seen the B-17E at Pearl Harbor that was shot down in New Guinea and reclaimed later? I have. picture of that aircraft I can send it you'd like to see it. Thanks for the good work on this one!
My father and grandfather (now passed) were at the ceremony in 1987, and I have copies of Menno's book signed as well as one of the posters from the event framed, signed by Margaret Polk. And yes, I was thrilled to hear about the recovery of Swamp Ghost.
Great review and recommendations
Great video mate!!
I am so glad you made this video as a long time fan of your work, and the fact that my grandfather was part of a crew of a B-17 bomber, he was a top turret and a tale gunner, his plane crashed near Finland I believe and he was captured and got away from what I understand, there is a documented article about his crew that was written I believe by someone that he knew back then and contacted my uncle many years later, it's a well known article by WW2 enthusiasts, I don't know the name of it offhand but I will ask my mother (his daughter) about it, from what I know it's online, I just wanted you to know this, I have been interested in that plane since I was a child and I'm in my 50s now. Thank you for this.
@stephens4175 NO FORTS EVVUUUHH DOWN IN S U O M I = FIN. From a FAF 2striper, cold war conscr, not convict ... Some Libs orientated to SVERIGE = swe after flak damage, dunno the details, maybe Forts as w .. Semper fiNN Welcome to NATO ... 🇫🇮
I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, literally surrounded by Navy and Air force Bases. Fleet Week and Airshows were always fun growing up! In the early 90's not long after the MEMPHIS BELLE movie had come out, our local municipal airport hosted a special Father's Day event. They had tow planes on display to the public: A B-24 Liberator and B-17 Flying Fortress! They belonged to a historical preservation society and both were air worthy. My Dad and both got a huge kick out of seeing these old planes, crawling around inside them and talking to crews that flew them. At least a few were actual veterans and they had some great stories to tell. My Dad passed away in 2014. He loved all thing mechanical. He would have made a great engineer. If I want a happy memory of him, I think about the huge grin he had on his face that whole day. Oh and MASTERS OF THE AIR is great show! Love it! I knew you like it too Micheal!
I like the display on your desk.🙂 I don't have Apple TV but now I want to watch it, thank you. 🙂
Agree 100% Michael this video needed to be made, not enough people appreciate those early B&W films, Twelve O'clock High one of the best.👍
Great Rec's!! There's a couple in here I've never seen. Thank you! I've been watching the 12'oclock High TV series as well. A pretty dark series if you ask me. As far as older movies go I freaking LOVE them! If you want to see some of the " work" the bombing campaign did to Berlin I highly recommend A Foreign Affair. It's actually a comedy set in post-war Germany that is great but Billy Wilder spends the 1st minutes of the film flying over a bombed out Berlin. Devastating damage.
War is pretty dark, not pretty ... 50 000 british personnel KIA above the Teutonland 1940-45 - 1,5 mill or sth (?) KIA on the gnd ..
The intro/opening of Masters of the air is one of the best openings, it’s one I never skip…both visually and musically!
Loved your review by the way. Those are some of my favorite movies of all time, and yes "Twelve O'Clock High" takes the podium. My story with the "Memphis Belle" 1989 movie is kind of long, so I'll just give you my conclusions. If it were not for the interpersonal drama on the plane and the fact that it was called "Memphis Belle" it would be one of the greatest WWII aviation flicks out there. Come to think of it, it still is, mostly due to the fact that no other movie tackled specifically the strategic bombing campaign head on, but it still be so much better. Still love it, though, as a representation of what the guys in the 8th AF were subjected through during those darker days.
When i worked at an RAAF museum in 2010, we found a few pieces from a B-17 in a store room. It was odd as the base it was attached to mostly had Beaufighters and Avro Ansons
What many fans of WWII films realize, fictional or based on reality, are in black and white. You have to get past that. But a lot of those stories are gone now. We only have these films now. Take time and enjoy the history of these films.
Still looking forward to meeting you one day Michael and talking WWII history.
Yeah. You did a good job of that.
I'm 72, have a Masters Degree in History and was a model builder before I went into the Marines in 1970.
At one time - I had 12 B-17's hung from the acoustic tile ceiling in our den. So I had 2/3rds of a Combat Box. I had German fighters diving through the formation and one of the B-17's my friend and I had found in a field - where someone had blown it up with fire crackers. I'd use double backed tape to stick cotton on the planes to make it look like smoke.
I haven't seen the first film you mentioned - I believe - _B-17_ or _Command Decision_ but I've seen all the others.
I've got a remark to make about _12 O'clock High_ ...
My interpretation of this movie - is:
It's about a Group that was rushed into combat before it was ready because the management bozos wanted to get planes in action as soon as they could.
Then - because they were not given a chance to work up as a unit properly - things don't go well.
So - Management not being able to admit that it was all their fault - send one of their Fair Haired Boys - FROM STAFF - down where he's supposed to shape the unit up.
Gen. Savage is a stupid Management Clone with no idea what the fuck he's doing.
All he needed to do - was stand the unit down and let them work themselves up like they should have done in the first place.
However - he goes in there and tries to stir things up. They relieve the unit commander everyone loves - and then take his XO and - entirely unfairly - blame him for all kinds of problems and put him in command of the _Leper Colony_ ....
Then - Frank Savage the Moron - has some Group Meeting where he challenges everyone to appreciate their membership in the group - by telling them that they can all be transferred to another group. All they have to do is ask. So - they ALL ask.
How stupid could that guy be?
So then - the Staff Officer who's looking out for this fool, the base doctor and this Medal of Honor winner - have to save this guy's bacon.
Then - Mr. Hard Ass - collapses with a mental breakdown and the guy he'd so shit on has to take his place.
Now - the first part of this - how the Group got in the sorry state it was in - is my speculation - but - from my experience with the Military (and management in general) - I think it is a very likely possibility that this is just why this group was all fouled up.
This is a great movie - it's just that Frank Savage is not a hero.
Nest time you watch it - think about that - and see if I'm not right.
The TV show was different. Here's a link to the Entire TV Show.
czcams.com/video/5_Q7NSR8aZ8/video.html
_"The Man Who Flew The Memphis Belle"_ is on Amazon as well as some other stuff.
I read a book on the 100th Bomb Group some decades ago. IIRC - it was by a Navigator who got air sick every single mission (and threw up) - but - carried on.
About the Movie _Memphis Belle_ - I think one of the good aspects of the way this was done - was that the viewers came to know each of these characters as people. All the characters in this movie were presented as people. One of the most moving scenes is where the Group Commander dumps a bunch of letters he'd received in reply to those he'd written about their loved one's death on a table for the ass hole PR guy to read.
"Here', start with this one. It's about a man who got his head blown off over L'Orient" where the father says he's sorry the Col. couldn't tell him just how his son died for security reasons (or something like that). And they have a bunch of excerpts from other letters replying to the letters he had sent out about the death of THEIR loved one.
You can just see the look on this guys face as he watches this crippled plane come in.
The thing is - here - they couldn't take and show these really personal things that happened to people - with the real people. Real people don't really want anyone to know about those things. So - they made them up.
It's not a documentary - like the documentary - but it is a very moving tribute to these men.
The statistic they showed at the end (I believe) of all the losses on both sides.
These two groups of people just shot each other to pieces.
.
Saw the character jug of Robin Hood and (cleverly I thought) it was there as an homage to Richard Greene (who you mentioned at the start was in “Flying Fortress” and was my Robin Hood on tv when growing up in the sixties) and at the end you revealed the jugs actual portrayal in “12 O’clock high” ha more fool me 😜 so brilliant Michael, interesting, informative, well researched and delivered with passion (as all your videos are) - thanks will definitely search out “The Cold Blue” 👍
You've guilted me into buying all of these haha. I've only ever seen Memphis Belle and I love it! I'm ashamed I've never seen the other ones. Masters of the Air was meh to me at first, but I've gone back and watched the episodes again and I'm really getting into it. Thanks for pointing all this stuff out!
Thank you for this video Michael. I know about enough about The Bloody Hundreth to be dangerous, but I enjoy learning. I'm certainly not an expert on aviation. I'm a writer. My uncle, Harry Crosby, taught me to be a writer. He would have enjoyed Masters Of The Air and he would have appreciated your involvement. Sincerely, Richard Boehner
I couldn't agree with you more. 12:00 High I absolutely love I love Memphis Belle and so far I'm very impressed with masters of the air. I love the history I just got on CZcams on my phone and found that 1943 movie Air Force and I'm going to watch it. There are some Black and Whites that I absolutely love. Thanks for what you do and your research hope to hear more
"...set in the Band of Brothers universe."
I don't want to live on this planet any more.
my first intro in life to the B-17 plane was Amazing Stories episode The Mission. I remember it being a great episode.