Chinese Mystery Mauser: Fake FN Model 30
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2023
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One of the most common rifles in Warlord-era China was the Mauser Model 98 short rifle. Various Chinese armies bought large numbers of them from the Mauser, CZ, and FN factories, chambered predominantly for the 8mm Mauser cartridge. In particular, FN sold some 24,000 Model 24 Mauser rifles to China between 1930 and 1934, and another 164,500 Model 30 Mauser between 1937 and 1939. And, of course, several major Chinese arsenals set up manufacture of high-quality copies of these patterns.
As with pistol production in China at the time, crude artisanal rifle copies were made by a variety of small shops and craftsmen. These are of visibly poor quality, and DEFINITELY NOT SAFE TO FIRE. They are, however, really interesting - at least to me. Thanks to viewer Jason for loaning me this one to film, which is a copy of an FN Model 30.
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Ethiopian Copy Mausers: Finally, a worthy opponent! Our battle will be legendary!
Also a worthy competitor in early 20th century Elbonian service rifle trials
@@thecommissaruk I concur
Instructions unclear, barrel unscrewed from action due to bullet rotation.
On par on each other 😊😅😂🎉
At least the Ethiopians tended to use actual gun parts and lower-pressure cartridges
Forgotten Weapons remains an absolute outlier in terms of the quality of it's content and delivery. Ian is an invaluable asset to the world of firearms history.
I wonder why TV isn’t picking him up for his own type of show or Shirish
I like the history as much as the guns themselves. Ian is an excellent history teacher.
@@Sven_Dongle Am I supposed to be insulted by this or something? Boy you are one narcissistic douche if you think the opinion of some internet rando is to be taken seriously.
@@Sven_Dongleyou’re joking, right?
Same with Misha
My favorite of these is still the "Wauser" pistol. Every time I think about it, I still laugh.
I think that is the Chinese equivalent of Westerners with a Chinese tattoo that means nothing, or “this foreign devil cannot read Chinese”
@@tomhalla426 Yeah, Ian said they had the letter stamps for the word Mauser and they inverted the m to a w. Other than that the stamping actually looked like a Mauser. I LMAO when he showed that one.
Ian should set up a book publishing company called "Wauser Wauser Waffenfabrik". Which raises the question of whether Mauser would be able to sue him.
Dammit you said the forbidden word!
Now i'm going to be muttering 'Go Go gadget pistol!' for the rest of the day.
@@voiceofraisin3778 🤣
Makes you wonder how many in history were given a firearm, gone to war and never even fired at anyone
Just never had a chance, leaving the rifle unused, sitting somewhere rusting to bits
Certainly the majority of those called to war.
Only a small fraction actually see combat.
@@L5GUK and most of those either don't shoot or don't aim directly for the enemy
@@aarosundvall
Im talking those who got RIP'd before having a chance
....RIP
Or blown to bits
Leaving a good gun just rotting somewhere
Just a weird thought
Someone spent effort to make it and it just...was useless in the grand scheme of things
The gun had to hold up long enough to fire a few rounds at the Japanese invader, however the Chinese losses were so great there was no need to make a gun that would go more than 100 rounds. Most wielders probably died on the field after less than 10. There are photos of huge piles of Mauser(ish) rifles picked up by Japanese after different clashes with China's forces.
@@kenibnanak5554
Exactly
Brutal
"The enemy cannot kill me if my weapon does so first."
The sight of the nails used to hold the furniture together takes my breath away.
crazy to think China has had their "terrible knockoff" reputation for such a long time
Frankly that's the reputation that Springfield Armory deserves😆
All hail the new king of cheap knockoffs!
I looked at a BYD electric car. my thought was. at least All parts are working and do what they sould. fit and finish are a bit better. But I wounder what cars they copied.
Just proof of a culture of theft
It seems that reputation may wear off in the coming decades, since cheap Chinese manufacturing is starting to disappear due to their shortage of young, unskilled laborers.
The first basic mechanic's tool set I ever bought at around age 18 cost $31.79 in the late 80s. It was a Craftsman set in a blow molded case and very well made, featured 1/4 - 3/8 - 1/2 ratchets + sockets + a few extensions, plus combination wrenches. A great starter set. I was dismayed to see that it was made in Taiwan but my father, a metallurgical engineer, set me straight. "It's all made to the same specs as the US made tools, same guarantee. Don't worry about it. Use the hell out of 'em." Which I did, and do, to this day. He later told me that around 95% of all sockets are made in Taiwan and their overall quality is consistently better than tools put out by the chicoms. I'd wager that any Taiwanese made M-14 will be sending rounds downrange long after its Norinco knockoff has disintegrated.
I wonder if the small details such as the windage burrs on the front sight are more from the original 'source' rifle being used to create the casting die.
So the entire front sight assembily, in this case, would be used to create a sand die, then when the cast is created it ultimately results in hold overs such as this, where the original function is lost, but it's aesthetically copied.
Imagine the whole rifle is just cast steel to look the part
@Kowillie2021 🤣
I got a cheap group of the Chinese rifles back when they came in the U.S. One of them was about a quarter of the weight of the others, but same configuration. I think the metal in the whole thing was pot metal.
Do you have any photos? Does it look substantially different from the others?
@@no1DdC It looked like all the metal was in the white. Even the wood was some soft, light material. The only marking was a number on the receiver ring. I’d have to find my notes to say what the number was. Don’t think I have any pictures. Gave it away before the days of digital cameras.
Love to see a bore scope pushed down the barrel 🤔
Regardless of these weapons' quality or lack thereof...
You have to admire someone's entrepreneurial spirit and hard work. Seriously.
Whether this "rifle" is junk or not, how many guys do you know that wake up someday and say "look at this pile of crap, I think I'll make something sort of useful out of it and find someone to pay me money for it."
Balls. Big brass pair.
Chinese Warlord: "We have Mauser rifles at home."
8:34 You had my attention with “it will probably survive a few rounds … before it actually explodes in your face.” 😳
A friend refers to this metallurgy as “Chinesium.”
"a friend"
@@Nukle0n Not me. True story. I promise!
Chinesium is what old PC cases were made of: an alloy that exhibits every undesirable property all at once. It's heavy, it bends if you sneeze on it, it breaks from metal fatigue the third time you bend it back, it galls if you rub hard plastic against it, all while being slightly magnetized so if you try sawing or filing it the chips clump up, sticks to your tools and won't vacate the area you're working on.
As an ardent PC modder back in the day I am all too familiar with this abomination of an alloy that due to it's unholy bastardized composition manages to insult every element in the periodic table with a straight face.
Interested in Chinese Warlord Mausers? "Arming the Dragon" by Dolf Goldsmith is now available and shipping:
www.headstamppublishing.com/purchase/arming-the-dragon-by-dolf-l-goldsmith
Post-1928, most of China was under the Blue Sky White Sun flag 🇹🇼 I understand why people nowadays are shying away from displaying that flag but it’s the right thing to do, many people died fighting for that flag.
It's basically impossible to specifically date most of the warlord type guns, so I chose to use the Beiyang flag for all of them to distinguish them from the later formal Nationalist/Taiwanese governments.
@@ForgottenWeapons…fair enough. I do love your channel, no disrespect intended. Just the political situation irks me sometimes 😂
I really love how those copies are made to look like but might not function properly. The people who made such weapons are truly talented craftsman
It looks crude, but not quite Khyber Pass crude. Thanks for the video, Ian!
We all know what sorts of machines that are used to mass produce rifles but i think it would be intrresting to see just how these knock offs are made, a file and a hammer or something more exotic.
It starts with pots, pans, and other scrap metal.
Probably a homemade forge, some scrap metal, saws, hand files, and hand drills. My best guess. You can make a lot of stuff with just those things. Add in a 3d printer so you can do lost-PLA casting and there's a short list of things you can't make.
You would be surprised at what people can build with only hand tools
This might indeed survive several rounds of modern commercial 7.92x57mm. However, it might have already fired its share (look at the split _stock_ ) and that's before you contemplate what might happen when it met its first Turkish Military Surplus cartridge...
One of my friends bought a Chinese Mauser in similar condition at a gun show. He was afraid to shoot the "old" 1970s FN ammo he got with the rifle. So he traded it for a few bandoleers of my 1942 Turkish 8mm I was shooting. It gobbled the Turkish ammo up. No signs of pressure issues. Bolt opened normally.
But, wow. It was one ugly rifle. Pitted. Sewer pipe bore. Someone drilled & tapped the receiver for modern scope mounts. The receiver was so out of spec, it would have never worked without some expert shimming. Or welding.
There is a significant difference between a proper factory-made Chinese Mauser and something like this, which may or may not have been heat treated.
@@donwyoming1936 Well, if the bore was also a bit over-diameter (especially around the throat) it might lower the pressures quite a bit. This is how idiots get away with firing .50" BMG in a shotgun: in that case the bullet isn't even touching the bore. But, as Ian points out; the friend's rifle might have been made under licence in a proper Chinese Arsenal and those are pretty good.
@@ForgottenWeapons current condition and quality of manufacture are indeed separate issues. Guns can be beautifully finished and not be safe.
I'd never mistake it for a real FN but overall it doesn't look too terribly crude.
Thank you for this Ian. For all its faults I would be so impressed with myself if I could even approach this good with the kit the gunsmith probably had to hand. For a hand made item he did not too bad. FWIW Insusoect that it had a copy cast FN butt plate which went missing, probably at the same time as the butt split, and the sheet tin replacement made to replace it on the field. The wood splint looks like it is replacing an actual cast butt tail.
Chinese Mystery Mauser was my favorite psychadelic rock album all through college.
Artisanal is my absolute favorite way to describe these firearms. No shade to the manufactures, however “low production, hand crafted, and custom order” are descriptors your want in your chocolate truffles or furniture. Still, looks way better than anything I could do!
I once fashioned a cork gun from a bicycle pump, a piece of wood, various nails, screws and brackets and a spring from a telescoping lamp. It gave a mighty good pop exactly three times before something came lose and the end cap and spring shot me in the face. Granted, I was just 14, but I'm still impressed that someone with only hammers, pliers, files, clamps, home made drill bits, a furnace and something very vaguely resembling a lathe can make a rifle that will at least test fire a few 8mm Mauser cartridge without instantly turning into a very elaborate pipe bomb.
I think a test firing of one of these would make an excellent video! Lots of camera coverage and a safe remote position for the person firing it. Make it a challenge, fire a full magazine if possible. Then retire the gun to wallhanger duty.
You adjust the windage by welding on a glob and filing it down a little different
You’re thinking too high tech. Just whack the end of the barrel with a hammer to compensate for windage. If you end up collapsing the inside of the bore a bit, just run a drill down it a bit to open it back up.
I reckon that functioned surprisingly well for some time. An awful lot of work has gone into making it, far more than most of the warlord pistols.
Bought an old Chinese K98, removed barrel and stock, put new barrel on (.30-06), adjusted action for the new round, put on a sporter stock, drilled n tapped for scope, and shoots nice (also had to bend the bolt handle...)
9:20
That's a good point. Even if the rifle itself wouldn't work for too long, if you're desperate and all you need is a quick rifle for a skirmish or two before you can get a real one, then I guess it does its job.
One of the things I love about your channel is you generally leave your opinions out (beyond, I thing this is cool/interesting), but one opinion I'd love to hear, especially with a rifle like this, "Would I shoot it? Yes or no?"
I'm not even really a gun person. I like history, I like engineering, and I love simple, clever, mechanical things so I get a lot of gun stuff in my feed.
Love your work Ian, Keep doing what you do.
Would I shoot it?
czcams.com/video/6_Vh20RTJOA/video.html
It will work long enough to take out an enemy and take his (hopefully better) rifle. Also, Artisanal Mystery Pistols would be a great band name.
A loot box where you receive a crude, non-functional pistol?
Definitely sounds like a shoe gazey indie Sex Pistols cover band.
I'm torn between admiring what these guys did by hand and laughing at the magical thinking suggested by nonfunctioning bayonet lugs and the like. I have to remind myself that whoever put it together knew those useless features were purely for marketing.
You see the same sort of "details" on all sorts of stuff. How many "tactical" knives have you seen with an oval hole in the blade? On an M9 bayonet, that hole slips over a lug on the sheath to make a wire cutter. Without that sheath - or something similar - that oval hole is just a cute decoration.
@@jamesgilbert124a tactical decoration thank you very much
The level of detail Ian goes into showing how you can determine if it's authentic or not kills me. This thing looks like a six year old made it.
So I guess the Real Question at hand is Are You Smarter than a 6th Grader?!? 🤔
You can use hardness checking stuff to see if it was properly heat treated. -Machinist/Engineer
Doesn't that means you will have to damage the surface of the sample?
@@billhsu6349 We're talking crude used fake examples of legit firearms. If the entire unit has no scratches i would be amazed. Typically you have to scratch or put a tiny needle sized dot somewhere. not deep but technically you're right it needs to see when the material is removable to test softness/hardness.
I would love to see that rifle run a box of ammo while in a bench... Just to see if it actually survives and what happens... It would be a shame to destroy it, but would also be really interesting
Love these handmade weapons. Please keep showing them!
Wow, that is one rough looking rifle. Still very cool though, thank you Ian.
Good that it has locking lugs and not locking screws going by the overall finish of the rest of the rifle
Very nice. Thank you to upload, it cheers us up
The first battle for that one looks like it started at the factory just getting out and some hard living ever since
Interesting rifle, the worn wood makes it look very Fallout hunting rifle like
Awesome thanks Ian
Ian, Is it in 7mm Mauser or 7.92mm ? What is the rifling like or is it smooth bore?
If the "mystery " pistols are too dangerous to be fired.
Imagine a full power mystery rifle. 😱
6:58 I love the fake adjustable front sight!
It's basically a Chinese copy of a FN Model 30 Mauser made in a Chinese Warlord's arsenal.
My most anticipated and eagerly awaited uploads of Ian’s are those covering these types of rip off, craft produced, chineseium firearms. I have no idea why they interest me so much but they have always been my favourite videos of any of his content and I thoroughly enjoy watching them. I hope he can either find more of them, or that more unreal viewers like the owner of this one can get him in contact with more of them to film for me to enjoy and learn from.
That rear sight...wow!!!
Hey Ian, I got a 1934 Venezuelan Mauser. From what I seen there was only 16,500 made. Mine has a serial number 205. It's still chamber in 7mm, which most were converted to 30-06. You think my rifle is pretty rare?
These are my favorite videos.
Awesome!
extremly interesting i somehow admire what they did
The receiver finish isn't too bad actually.
Love those FM Wausers
Ian, when reviewing guns like this - could you also take a quick look at the rifling? I'm always curious about it.
Hi Ian, strap it in a vice and then a very long string.
Wausers!
FИ MODEL Э0, is original, made by FИ himself at his fancy factory in Sweden, no problem, yes?
I love all of your work. But for some reason I find your knock off videos to be my favorite.
Thank s
This would be an awesome weapon for an unscrupulous quartermaster. From a distance it likes like a decent rifle you'd been given good hard cash to buy. Put it in the centre of the ranks and hope for the best on parade.
iv got a dozen of these i bought for 10$ each years ago. most have been broken at the wrist on the stock and bolt missing because when they where imported they didnt want them to be shot again as they where so damaged. good for parts selling on ebay...
Nice handgrenade you have there.
Methinks some of those lo-res non-features are there due to mold castings patterned off the real thing.
4:26 Notice the range grading on the rear sight. For instance the distance between 12 and 11 is much smaller than the distance between 11 and 10 or between 12 and 13. That don’t make much sense.
Does the "Mauser FN " device have a rifled barrel at all. It does not come close to the WAUSER pistol, but thanks to the viewer.
Hey Ian, at 4:04 you say "It's meant to look like *that*" with emphasis indicating that there ought to be an overlaid image in the video but there is none. Letting you know in case that wasn't intended.
THREE minutes after publication!! Whoo hoo!!
That gun is over ninety years old, it must have been fired a few times in it's lifetime
A great very interesting video and fake rifle."The FN sold 24,000 Mod.30 rifles in 1924 in China"; so neat.Does the Mod.30 refer to the caliber or the year?Did the FN try any legal action against those counterfeiting businesses?Have a good one Mr.GJ
Ian, why do you not have a video on the 1792 or 1803 rifles
Although those old breed Chinese soldies could do amazing things woth just about anythin!
PLEASE REVIEW 327 FEDERAL MAGNUM !! S&W Model 632 comes to mind compared to the Ruger SP101 or Ruger LCR !!
Very cool, I’d like one to put beside my VZ Chinese contract Mauser.
Mystery Mauser is fun to say
This rifle reminds me of the car from the novel "From A Buick 8" by Stephen King.
that looks pretty good tho
I do love this chinese and Khyber mystery guns
This was most likely made by a single gun smith and sold to an individual for home protection against bandits. During those civil war years after Qing dynasty, lawless bandits are common and people armed themself to protect their home. The wealthy can afford authentic imported guns or at least domestic gun factories' guns, while those can't afford will go with this type of copies, just to show they are well armed to the bandits. As long as the bandits can't tell the difference from 30 yards away, this guns worked as good as a authentic FN. In those days, they only wished to drive the bandits away, avoided casualties to the bandits, fearing revenge. That's how there was a market for these replica copies.
Finally one of my guns makes it on to forgotten weapons
OOOOOH ITS A TREAT! strange knockoff guns are so wild
Thank you , Ian .
🐺 Loupis Canis .
They went from the Boxer Rebellion to copyright infringement and Wish.
Buyer: I want a Mauser. They're the best quality rifle money can buy.
Dealer: Sure, do you want the Ethiopian, Khyber pass or Chinese made Mauser? 😂
even when that rifle was brand new, im curious what the solder issued it through when he received it.
2:45 A 23.6 inch barrel? That is 60 centimeters.
So basically “wallhanger” verging on “rifle shaped object”?
i imagine this thing probably spent the majority of it's life guarding train cars or something. probably works well enough and i imagine most of the time you only have to point it at someone who got too inquisitive.
that would be my guess for how something like that survived without blowing itself up.
Are there any "Made in China" markings though
When I decided to try and shoot my Chilean 1895 pattern Mauser I emailed Mauser for advice and they gave me the email of a German National who would know if it is safe for modern 147gr ammo. The answer was yes, but when I went out with my friend Bo to do some shooting, the 1st round was fired remotely (rifle secured and a string on the trigger...) I would say that that rifle is definitely not safe without deep cleaning in an ultrasonic vat of PD680 to see just how double plus ungood it is.
I bet it would be fine to shoot as long as the ammo isnt that hot.
Funny story all the knockoff MSD ignition boxes for decades used the same serial number.. I wonder if this is the case for these knockoff Mausers as well.. "Make it EXACTLY like this one Comrade ... EXACTLY" "Yes Comrade" 😉
...probably will be fine for a while. Not a ringing endorsement, but a correct one.
Seems like they went to a lot of effort to make it look like it worked, but not so much effort into making it work.
Considering the general quality and precision of the rifle I don't think that front sight served it's purpose. Trying to hit anything with this thing must have been a dice roll.
I wouldn't mind having that just as a conversation piece wall hanger.
So it's China's version of a Ross MkIII in Mauser form without needing to be reassembled incorrectly
Harbor Freight hasn't changed a bit.
Youre talking to an audience that cheered on brandon making a dubious pipe shotgun that nearly killed him lol
Some Turkish 8mm and a certain Kentuckyan shooter will sort that reliability out in a pinch 😂
From the nation that discovered gun powder
Send it to a CIP test :)