How to Make Identical Length Link Bars! Mighty Max Ep. 12
Vložit
- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- Today we determine how long the Mighty Max link bars need to be for the parallel 4-link, and then build some bent link bars from scratch using a homemade jig! We also discuss what bar ends to use, either rubber bushings, polyurethane, heim joints, and Johnny Joints, and what material to make the link bars out of.
Scraping Pavement CZcams Channel
/ scrappingpavement
Thorbros Mock-up Bushings
thorbros.com/4-link-parts/4-l...
As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
The Tools Featured in This Video:
Empire Abrasives
lddy.no/vxuk
Get 10% Off! Use Promo Code GarageFab
Harbor Freight Grinder
Corded 4-1/2 in. 5 Amp Angle Grinder
Welder ESAB Fabricator
amzn.to/3hI8Thp
Vise Wilton
amzn.to/3tRNSDc
JD Squared Tubing Bender
www.jd2.com/model-32-bender
The Video Production Equipment I Use:
Cameras:
Sony A7iii Mirrorless Camera
amzn.to/3uTZlUb
Lumix G7 Mirrorless Camera
amzn.to/3wbihOw
Audio Equipment:
Rode Wireless Go Lav
amzn.to/3bvamDv
Giant Squid Lav
amzn.to/3wbiEso
Sound Recorder Zoom H4n Pro
amzn.to/3wg8s1P
Tripod Manfrotto
amzn.to/3tRdQqr
Tripod Head
amzn.to/3fhRpW6
Neewer Camera Slider
amzn.to/3floyjR
Teleprompter
amzn.to/2STdMK2
Lighting:
Flashpoint Ring Light
amzn.to/3wb6jUV
Phottix Nuada R3
amzn.to/3w7GANa - Auta a dopravní prostředky
![Build a Tough Differential Cover! (For a Watts Link [Or Not, Whatever]) Mighty Max Ep. 15](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uomQ-HuKuo8/mqdefault.jpg)
Check out the Scraping Pavement CZcams channel to further your Fabrication education!
czcams.com/users/scrappingpavement
First I was like... "A new garage fab video! Woop woop" and then I hear my name!? Oh shit! Haha, thanks for the plug my man appreciate it 🙏🏼
Glad to see you back! I like how you jigged the axle up so there was no guess work at all 👌🏼
Keep on truckin' ✌🏼
Anytime, Brother. You are appreciated. Here’s to a productive 2022! 🍻
I found your channel from this channel. I like your style man, and you're very informative. Keep up the great work!
I don’t know which channel you found from the other but regardless, thank you Jarrett. Glad to have you. See you around my friend. 🙌
@@GarageFab I found scrapingpavement from you. Both of you guys are very informative and give great explanations for diy’ers in the air bag scene. I will be tackling my first bag project soon and both of you guys have made a lot of things more clear for me. I even purchased max fish book on air suspension. Found that from the pendanticpublishing channel. Great stuff!
A lot of what I know came from Max back in the MiniTruckin’ days. That’s a pretty good book. I have a copy myself.
Sorry to be a complainer but you really need to put out more content man, I could watch this all day
I appreciate you Michael. I really wish I could. My current CZcams income is less than $200 a month. Needless to say I can’t quit my day job just yet but I hope to eventually. Until then, content creation time is very hard to come by. 🤷♂️
Love the axle lift bracket, especially how it's bolted to the jack.
Thanks man! I’m considering doing a video on all of the jack attachments I’ve made over the years. Keep an eye out for it!
@@GarageFab bet.
Hell yeah it’s a good idea. I haven’t had to mess with axles too much but I am about to be. Killer idea
@@mikebuilt.8214 Lemme know how it goes. It’s a back saver for me.
I NEED MORE TO WATCH MANKANDY LOL, love the videos it's giving me a lot of my motivation back and going to help out a lot with my project on my 1994 toyota hilux/pickup i got going on unfortunately do to time and just figuring out what i want to do exactly and now i got the direction i want to go in thanks to you!!
There is no better compliment, Josh. The entire goal of the channel is to motivate and encourage. Just plug away at it slowly. Keep moving forward. Can’t wait to see what you create! Cheers! 🍻
Thanks for the tip on the heim joint. Wondered why I had to tack weld my jam nuts on my jeep lowers.
Nothing wrong with welding it once You know everything is setup properly. 🙌
Thanks for the great the jack adapter idea. I am planning to build some big offroad bumper, and this is just what I need to easily take them on and off.
My pleasure, Alex! Best of luck with it! 🙌
your really good 🔥 im very grateful i found your channel! i just sent this video to my partner that is a fabricator and a machinist! We we’re (before covid) building custom 4door 70’s chevy snub nose C40-70cabs and landing them on modern chassis by leveling everything in with green laser level and then pulling numbers off the body mount locations then transferring over to the new frame ! My buddy even built a rolling Jig for doing the 4door cabs ! im trying to get him to start filming his work and start a channel but he’s old school so im going to help him figure it out !
A bent piece of dom makes a great bridge truss over a differential. Quick simple and easy.
Indeed it does!
Great vid. Good to have you back.
Thank you Coty. Glad to be back.
I love these videos you make. Even if The project your working ok isn't something i would have, the content still applies . you explain every thing very thorough And on easy go understand steps.
Thank you, Justin! I appreciate your appreciation! That means a lot to me. Cheers!
Love your videos. Can’t believe I haven’t come across this channel before. Thanks for all the info. Keep it up 👍
Thank you, Brother! The channel is still fairly new in the grand scheme of things. I’m sure it’ll be at 23 million by the end of the year. 😂 You are appreciated! Keep doing what your doing!
It's nice to see a thorough video that doesn't just repeat the same stuff that everybody else has. It's also nice watching a video where they'll talk about something in my mind I'll be thinking yeah but what about this part or that part of it and then about that time you actually go through and explain it. The chromoly versus mild steel for the link bars was a perfect example. Everybody's like you need chromoly. One bands one breaks if it isn't welded properly. Just like you said, a Bent link bar will get you farther than a broken one.
I agree for the most part on your breakdown between the poly and the rubber bushings. Race vehicles generally you're going to want himes or big poly bushings. If it's something that requires a lot of movement or articulation the rubber bushings yes as you stated, won't last as long. If it's something you're going to be driving a lot on a street vehicle and like on yours where there's long link bars and not 2 ft of wheel travel I would have ran rubber bushings. A good quality rubber bushing will last for years without any lube, dirt collecting around the lube, or squeaking because he didn't lube them. Also poly bushings when they get loose they clunk just like a tie rod. Each type has a place, it just depends on what you're doing with it.
Still like your content though.
Jack lift def brilliant. Arron, you are my grown up Mr. Roger. I don’t watch tv. Can’t stand most of the humans on the planet, I haven’t binged like this since, I don’t even know…literally addicted to your channel. I can not wait to cut up my sons D21, I’m soon acquiring my third 720(first extended cab) and surgery will commence.
Haha!! Thanks Doug. That means a lot to me. I too am not a big fan of humans.
I’m excited to see where your project goes! If you haven’t already, check out @pavementscraper. He specializes in D21s. Best of luck my friend!
+1 for the Axle Lift Jig video. My truck is not dropped, quite the opposite, a desert build. Both of which are common for Vegas and like you, its me in the garage solo. Subd
Right on, fellow Vegan? Las Vegan that is.
I’ve got a few jack attachments to share so that video is definitely on it’s way.
Much appreciated my man!
Bro I love the channel. It’s so professional! Owner of a mighty max here i love the build!
Thank you Kris! You’re my people! ❤️
Good stuff! Glad to see you back
Thank you bro! It really didn’t feel like that long of a break, but in the CZcams world it seems like folks think I’ve been gone for years!
I better get my act together. 😳
Happy new years brother good to see ya back again 🤙🏾🤙🏾🤙🏾
Happy new year to you too my friend! 🎉
I just discovered your channel 20 minutes ago, love it and subscribed instantly with notification! I'm not smart, but I am a mechanical engineer. I pursued that education specifically so I could build things with steel. I too struggled with how to articulate why one would use chromoly over mild steel with my hot rod buddies, particularly with the cost differences, and where is the dividing line to make that decision. What you said was a spot on explanation, best I've heard to date, and got the point across perfectly well. One would choose chromoly over steel for one of two reasons; 1. Money is no object and weight savings is absolutely key to your goals, i.e. sponsored race team like you said, or 2. you need a lot of strength in a part but have a limited amount of space to put it in. Chromoly is the most accessible option of the high dollar steels. i.e. home made axle stub shafts. Proper annealing is the difference between success and failure as you described, most home growers get cracks at the weld zone until they crack the heat treat code. Awesome channel, I'm looking forward to binge watching your content over the next few months in the boring evenings on my out of town assignment.
You sound pretty dang smart to me. I’ve pondered for a long time about going to school for engineering! The funny thing is I have no desire to get a degree, I just want to better myself and my projects by learning more than I could on my own.
Thank you my friend! You are appreciated. We’ll be seeing you around! 🍻
Those bends and finish product look amazing brotha!! Mad fab skills!
Thank you my man! 🙌
Damn. Do you ever do a excellent job explaining how to. Very builder friendly explaining why as well as reasoning why. Thank you for these
My pleasure my man. “Why” is always the most question. Don’t accept any info unless the person can tell you why.
That axle lift rig for the jack (and don't think I didn't notice that you used receiver hitch tubing so you can use the same nose and different attachments) is absolutely brilliant. Gold f'n Star, mate.
Haha! Thank you Brother. Eventually I’ll get around to showing off all the attachments.
On our " 4:80 NO PREP BUILD " We use a 4380u joint... with rremote reservoirs coilovers and the 4link bars are 1.625" X 4130 but definitely for my" C10 & OBS TRUCKS... LAID OUT... " . You are spot on except for factory set facts... lol.
Respectfully, Seth
Thanks for the tutorial. Appreciate the knowledge sharing n explanations. Well taught
Thank you my man! You are appreciated. 🙏
Yes Arron I would like to see the video on making that! Dude Happy New Year! Hope your okay.
Dang no c notch on the next project? I guess it’s not gonna be bagged or a MiniTruck. I wish I was closer I would love for you to help build the c notch on the hardbody.
I told Jake that his video was perfect on sizing the c notch.
Thank you, Dina!
The next project will be bagged. And it will be a Mini Truck! 😉
Just subscribed. Great video. I have a bad back and also made a jack attachment for putting on hitch plates. 1" plates are no joke.
Thank you Howard! Glad to have you. Work smarter…
I don’t have a bad back (yet) but I’m deathly allergic to hard work.
Decent Frickin video, man.
Took me back 20+ yrs, figuring out 4 Linkin, when there was only print in magazines.
Thank you, Donald!! I’m still learning after 15 years. But I had the privilege of having access to the beginning of the internet and a lot of folks from all over willing to share their knowledge. You are appreciated. 🙏
Love the video! Love the project!
Thanks, Brother! She’s getting there.
Nice!! I like the jack attachment.
Thanks my man! So many options to be had with jack.
Awesome work. Love your content. Thank you
As always, Kevin, you’re welcome. And thank you my man! 🙏
Awesome channel, glad I found it!
Thank you, James! I’m glad you found it too. I hope you find it useful.
Cheers!
Probably your best video so far 👍
Dang! Much appreciated, Brother! 🙏
A video on the axel lift / floor jack would be very much appreciated. Really enjoying the videos. Keep up the good work.
Much appreciated! I can think of a couple other attachments I can include as well.
Yes please!
Consider it done!
Loving your channel, you make everything seem do-able! You explain things in a matter of fact way with no nonsense. Thanks so much!
Thank you, Steve! That’s my intention with every video. To show people they don’t need a machine shop to create what they want to create. I hope it’s working! Cheers!
I'm really loving your channel!
Thank you, Travis. I appreciate your eyeballs! 🙏
Cheers.
@Garage Fab I'm getting so many ideas and proper knowledge of how suspension stuff works! I recently just had my drive shaft drop out of my 97 Dakota.
While I had it out:
1. Removed all of the rust
2. I painted it
3. Replaced all the u-joints
4. Pinion yoke at the front of the differential
5. Carrier bearing that barely had and rubber attached still
6. Tranny filter/fluid
7. New gasket & pan with drain plug
8. Oil changed while I was under there
9. Differntial fluid changed (since it poured itself out while shaft was disconnected)
10. Differential cover cleaned de-rusted and painted
11. New gasket
So then I lowered it down so I could top off the fluids after it was all together and noticed my rear tire was almost punching the inside of the fender.... Found out two of my four link rods were busted at the ends and one of the front hangers cracked below the weld.
I decided to remove the bed:
1. Deleted the e-brake and removed the bracket that was partially torn from the frame
2. Dropped the fuel tank
3. The straps almost completely cracked apart from rust
4. Disconnected the fuel filler hose from the inlet housing (it was so rusty I'm surprised it's not leaking already.
Ordered new tank straps and filler, rust remover wash and metal etch/conditioner.
Rust Bullet Chassis paint.
Company is sending me all new stuff!
The company wants me to remove all of the old kit and return it to them.
So I've been watching your videos on different ways I could set up the four link when I reinstall it, maybe install inside side of the frame instead of the outside and possibly move the fuel tank from the side of the truck to under the rear of the bed I'm not sure if that's a great idea because of possibly getting rear-ended but I don't know.
My only major concerns are pinion angle of the shaft and figuring out my ride height that I want and having the bags having at least 30 pounds between them.
When the kit was originally installed one of the cheapest Chinese airbags was popped so I had to buy a couple of Air lift quality bags locally which then since they were taller they required more air so my ride height was more raked.
So I need to move the upper bag mounts up or the lower back mounts down when they go back in.
I ordered a digital magnetic pinion angle finder help but I don't know the best way to figure out where on the axle to mount the bag mount brackets.
And as long as I maintain the opinion angle I can move the front and rear hangers for the four link up as long as they still end up lined up with my infinite Center at the front of my bumper if I understand correctly.
Sorry for the superlong post but you got the knowledge that I'm looking for!
I've been watching all your videos. They're great! I'm working on a similar project. I'm pretty much on my own and would greatly appreciate a video on how you made the floor jack adapter to lift up the rear end. Thank you!
Thank you Refugio! I’ll try and slap together a quick How-to in the next few weeks. I’ve got a handful of videos already in production so unsure when. Best of luck on your project my man!!
Love the videos !
Explained very well!
Thank you Robert! You are greatly appreciated. 🙏 Cheers!
Just found this channel and I love it! New subscriber!!! 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Thank you man! Glad to have you. 🙏
@@GarageFab how about a video on making them custom exhaust tips that’s on the outside of the car? I don’t know the exact name. It’s on one of the trucks in your videos. And rebuilding a new frame after a wreck? Like instead of pulling the bent frame out but cutting the damaged area out and adding the missing metal. That’s if ever you ever come across a bent frame. And yes you’ll be getting a few requests from me since I’m new to the channel jk 😂😂😂
Which exhaust tip are you referring to? The only one that comes to mind is the black truck in my intro, which is actually only a digital rendering of the next project.
I honestly don’t know how to make that yet! 😂 But there will certainly be an episode on it when that time comes.
As for the frame repair, that’s a good idea. I’ll consider it if I can find someone that needs that sort of fix.
@@GarageFab yes the black truck has them exhaust tips. I don’t know what they’re called but I’ve seen them on a few cars/trucks and they’re nice!!🔥🔥🔥 and ok thank you
"Johnny joints for if you're rich and dont want to be." Haha🤣
😆 I’m happy you appreciated that.
What's up mankandy, happy New Year. While triangulated bars aren't the same length should they remain parallel to each other. Thanks, I really enjoy the depth if your videos.
Hey Terry! I’m assuming that you’re referring to the relationship between the triangulated upper bars and the parallel lower bars. (Because if the triangulated bars were parallel they wouldn’t be triangulated) 🤔 🤯
It is my opinion that on bagged vehicles the upper and lower bars should in fact be parallel to maintain a constant pinion angle. On a static height vehicle, (metal springs, coil overs, etc.) They should not be parallel. Instead they would point to a common spot at the front of the vehicle. (Front wheels/front bumper)
This will increase traction, but will give a changing pinion angle which could cause problems on an adjustable height vehicle.
Thank you, Terry! Happy new year.
I'm usually doing things by myself and in my 70's so any attachments/jigs that make lifting car or truck parts I'm working on easier would be great, show them all. Great stuff on this project also.
Oh I’ve definitely got some things for you my man! I’m also on my own and trying to get friends over to lift stuff is like pulling teeth. I’ve got a rolling, pivoting, telescoping gantry you’ll enjoy. Hope to make that video soon!
even on race cars, everything chromoly, including the chassis, is replaced at intervals. Like you said, failures are catastrophic, and the stress on the material over time will weaken it.
That said, chromoly has some useful flex properties for certain applications. It's a bit "springy" compared to mild. For a vehicle that won't be competing on a track, chromoly is not an ideal option, but it certainly has its place.
Interesting! That’s the first time I heard the tubing change. You’ve basically sealed the deal on my using DOM on the next project for much of the chassis. Heavy but that shouldn’t be a problem.
Thank you, Riley!
So many things I could comment on lol but the jack axle lifter was cool and loving the upper curves!
You like my curves? 😳
@@GarageFab no no not yours the trucks…and technically your wifeys
Regarding Chrome Molly tubing weld HAZ issues. Using 310, 312, or 316 Stainless Steel TIG filler rods will minimize preheat and post heat weldment failures.
Thank you for that Steve! I have a whole box of 312 and I never weld stainless. Perhaps it’ll get used after all! 🙏
I used one Johnny joint on my wishbone I built for my f100. Seamed like a good choice and being just one needed. Very affordable
I dig it. Lord knows they’re beefy enough.
How do you like the wishbone? I can’t see why there would anything wrong with it but I’ve never had the opportunity to drive one.
Where is the Johnny Joint? Behind the cab or at the axle?
@@GarageFab I haven’t driven this one but as long as the Johnny joint is in the middle it does good. If that is offset then it throws off the roll center. Mine is on top of the diff. I wish I could have put it behind the cab but I was concerned about the drive shaft and instant center not playing nice lol.
From my loose understanding of roll center, you Johnny Joint is right where it should be. I’m excited to hear more about your experience as time goes on. 👏
Love your work, Question..what is the length of the bolt I should use if I use 3/16 plates bracket and 2.5 bushings on my like bars
I would love to see a video on the axle lift adapter. As a female fabricator this is a super useful thing for me in my shop!!!
Consider it done! There’s a couple other jack adapters I can include in the video as well. I’ll start working on that one soon.
Thank you, Skye! You are appreciated. 🍻
"They fired me." Their fucking loss!!! That jack idea is genius!
Haha! Thank you my man. Definitely my gain. That was one of those times that sucked at the moment, but was the beginning of an amazing future.
Your channel is amazing for us dyi fab guys
Thank you! You are appreciated, Paul. Now get out there and DIY!!! 🙌
Chromoly is stronger and better because of two reasons its strength and Ductivity meaning the amount of pressure it can absorb and the amount it can bend without breaking. The problem is people try to make it to stiff by welding it with stainless steel wire this makes it way to stiff causing cracks overtime. Heat treatment also does the same effect also cold treatment different topic depending on the material. U can actually weld chromoly with flux core a lot of people don't know this. There are special wires specifically for different materials. I have a college degree in welding. I don't know everything but I've learned a lot and continue to learn.
No argument at all that chromoly is better when done properly. I plan to take some classes myself sometime soon so I find it for sure what “properly” really means.
There is no better way to be… always learning.
@@GarageFab yeah I always recommend education it will definitely help
Another great video. Thanks!
Thank you, Clint. 🍻
HOORAY...you're BACK! How about videos on the axle lift AND the heavy bumper lift ???
I never left!! Just been a wee bit busier than usual. I’ve got a few clever jack attachments I’ve made over the years so I’ll likely include them all in a single video.
@@GarageFab Glad too see that you're good! I look forward to that video, 'cos I love making jack attachments. My drive way is dirt, rough and angled downhill in two directions, making jack work kinda painful.
Check out the Pro Eagle off road jack. It might be something you’d find useful. 👍
Just found your channel and instantly watched every video you’ve posted. My question is if I’m doing a triangulated 4link should all my bars be the same length?
Also. What size bar ends are you using? Are they from thorbros?
I just started watching the video but I'm hoping this will all transfer over to building custom long arm suspension front and rear on my xj. I know i can buy kits but i really wanna design and build my own
Love the attention to detail & ur intelligence. I learned things then wrong way long ago im paying for it these days diameters, measuring, finding center man we didn't do any of that we got it low on the ground then it was time for a cruise Haha
I’m right there with you, bud. I don’t know much but I knew a lot less when I started. That’s part of learning though; doing things wrong and then correcting it. Nothing wrong with wrong… unless you cause an accident. Don’t do that.
@@GarageFab definitely don't do that! I was always safe but wish i built better quality.
You’ll get there. Practice, pride and patience. The 3 Ps.
Dang that’s too good to be an original thought.
Oh well I’m claiming it anyway.
@@GarageFab It was good lol
Thank you thank you thank you!
My pleasure, Garth. Thank you for your time!
the they fired me had me dying loll
😆 Definitely one of the more interesting firings of my time.
I would like to see a video on your axle Jack adapter! Thanks 🙏
Consider it done, Kevin! I’ll make sure it’s one of the next few videos to be made. Cheers!
@@GarageFab Thanks 🙏
Awesome videos! 👍👍👍
Thank you my man!!
“Or if your rich, and you don’t wanna be” 😂😂😂
Haha! Seriously tho. Buying Johnny Joints is the quickest road to homelessness.
I’ve got an 86 C10 that needs a frame notch. 😊
Excellent. Where you at? I’ve got a few months left of having no room to work. Perhaps I’ll hit you up.
Your videos are A++++!!
Thank you my friend! That is very much appreciated. 🙏
Shouldn't you use a heim or jonny joint on one end of each bar to accommodate for body role? Seems like poly on both ends would wear out quick from body roll.
I’m hearing a lot lately about failing or wearing out polyurethane bushings! I have yet to have to replace a poly bushing. On my builds, if the owner wants side to side action, or adjustable links, at least one end of each link must be a heim joint with high misalignment spacers. In vehicles with static suspension or bagged vehicles with just front and back motion, I only use polyurethane bushings. That’s not to say that’s the “right” way of doing things but it’s served me well so far.
My first truck was a 1985 mighty max pickup that had a 2.0 and it ripped, hind sight I should have put an evo 4g63t or something in it but I put a 4.3 vortec v6 with a Munsie 4 speed from an old camero and made it a 2wd pre runner, had a twin I beam from a Ford ranger in it but then jumped to far and broke the front end. These truck had a boxed frame from the factory that were tough as hell. Truck got wrecked while parked and totaled which sucked, best drift truck ever.
Ive thought about redoing the setup in my truck without a notch . Maybe when your done you could do my truck
Wait wut!? Tell me more! Your truck isn’t notched?
@@GarageFab it is but it was built to small back when 15’s were large 😂
@@markjohnson28 Ooooh! Then yes! Let’s do it. Get to work. 🙌
Been going through alot of your videos lately. Also would like to know where you get your rod end bushings or atleast what size they are.
Thorbros is my favorite at the moment.
thorbros.com/collections/4-link-bushings
They also have Heim joints as well as a lot of other suspension stuff.
Thank you for spending your time here!
@@GarageFab thanks for the reply buddy much appreciated.
Hey MK, can you use any shape link bar for a watts link install?
Yes Sir. Same rules apply. The important things are the distance between the center of the 2 bar ends (the effective length) and the strength of the bar. This goes for the Watts link propeller too.
Great videos, you’re voice is perfect for this and you should be a professional voice actor! On a different note, if you could d a specific triangulate 4 link video for classic trucks. I’m trying to put one in my ‘57 Chev with a GM 10 bolt. I’ve researched a lot but it’s hard to get the right answer, like should the bars be parallel? Or should the top be slightly downward to meet the projected lower bars line at the IC? I’m just building a daily driver. Thanks
Thank you my friend! I went to a voice acting school for 4 weeks! I felt like I wasn’t getting much out of it for the money I was spending so I stopped. Maybe I was wrong! 🤔
I don’t know when I’ll be able to make that video especially because my next truck will have independent rear, but it’s definitely in the future plans.
Until then, I’d be thrilled to help where I can.
For your question specifically, will you be using adjustable suspension or coil overs? That makes all the difference in my mind.
@@GarageFab Well isn't that something! Yes, totally agree that the entertainment industry can be somewhat fickle that way. I am putting in coilovers, no bags, just basic, bought a generic welderseries link set, but because of the narrowness of the frame and the pumpkin being cast iron, the maximum angle I can achieve is about 24 degrees with the uppers going outwards from axle to frame. I may have to go in reverse and converge forward to a mounting cross member. These I can tackle but its understanding the best geometry for the setup. Oh, and I have a calculator, but I do not have my corner weights of the truck, as I have everything apart lol.
Honestly when we start getting into corner weights, that’s going far beyond my knowledge of suspension design. I’ve never built a performance suspension and it would probably show if I tried. I specialize in the basics because that’s what I understand thoroughly. Meaning I can build a suspension that works properly, doesn’t self destruct, and has at least the traction and handling capabilities of most production vehicles.
Because your building a street vehicle, I believe you would be still be happy with your setup if you reversed the triangle. I’ve done it several times with no complaints. Just understand that this is changing your roll axis quite a bit. (Roll axis is what the entire vehicle body rotate on when cornering and it’s determined by drawing an imaginary line through your front and rear roll centers) The roll center in a triangulated 4 link is the point where the two angled bars converge, and because your moving it forward that’s steepening your roll axis slightly. My argument is most people couldn’t tell the difference. Seasoned race car drivers could.
Because you’re NOT installing bags, you can ignore how much I stress the importance of Parallel Link bars. That’s important in adjustable suspension to keep from replacing U joints every oil change.
Your bars can be angled. A good rule of thumb is the lower bars are angled up slightly and the upper bars angled down in a way that if you drew an imaginary line through the bars, the uppers and the lowers would intersect somewhere between the grill and the center of your front wheels. This will give you a little added traction off the line that us bagged folks can’t have.
Again, Mario Andretti would sense the difference between a parallel setup and the the angled setup mentioned above.
If you ever want to shoot me photos, search @GarageFab on Instagram.
Hope this helps a smidge.
@@GarageFab Thanks, it does greatly, I am a pilot by trade and understand all the roll, CoG, inertia and such, but I don't get some guys going all in on these race setups that really, anything under 800 hp, they can't feel. Thanks again, I'll hit you up with some photos for sure!
Jumpin jehoshaphat you're back!
I never left! I just wasn’t here. But I’m back from not leaving!
For an off-road application when finding your link mount locations on the frame, do you go off instant center? Also how do you calculate your upper link length when doing a triangulated 4 link?
I don’t build a lot off road vehicles. That’s my way of saying I’ve never built one. 🧐 I specialize in Mini trucks that require a whole different set of rules.
If I’m building a truck that’s meant to perform well at the track, center of gravity would be a deciding factor and then creating a good instant center with link angles would follow.
Unfortunately with adjustable suspensions like those that I build most, instant center takes a back seat to drivability. (meaning vibration and driveline longevity)
In adjustable suspension vehicles in which the driver wants to be able to drive at all heights and doesn’t care as much about quarter-mile times, I create the longest link bars the vehicle will allow. The link bars then essentially decide where to mount them to the frame.
Sorry I couldn’t be more help there.
As for triangulated bar length, my method is ridiculous. I did terrible in math and I’m sure there’s an easier way to calculate it on paper but here it is…
On bagged vehicles the distance between the axis’ on the lower bars should match the axis’ on the triangulated upper bars for the sake of happy u joints. So I take the measurement of the straight lower bars, let’s say they’re 3 feet even. I draw two parallel lines on the ground 3 feet apart and the width of the vehicle frame. Those lines are the front and rear axis’ of the lower bars.
Now you can place your unwelded bar ends on those lines where you want to mount them (perhaps the front link bar mounts are an inch away from the inside of the frame rails and the rear mounts are a couple inches apart above the differential.) You can then just measure the distance between the front and rear bushings to decide what length to cut the link bar tube to.
I’m suddenly realizing while writing that I should do a video on this even though I’m not doing a triangulated 4 link. I hope this made sense in writing. 🍻
@@GarageFab my apologies, I could have worded my question better. I should have asked if your formula could be applied to an off-road application. As for the links I found a 4 link calculator on a forum last night. If you would like me to send it you way so you can check it out to let me know I can email it to. Helps with links, shocks, drive shafts and pitches needed.
I’d love to see it. You can hit my up on Instagram @GarageFab. Feel free to shoot me a DM.
The setup I recommend for Mini Trucks would in fact “work” off-road, but you’d likely be leaving some performance on the table. Maybe it would be noticeable, maybe it would not, but traction under acceleration with a parallel 4 link might not be as good as it could be with just some simple adjustments in bar angle.
Simply put, if you just want to drive some trails occasionally, a parallel 4 link will serve you just fine. If you want to race, ignore everything I have to say. (Except “Keep moving forward”)
Plz make jack attachment video
Gladly, Rick!
I know this is a old video, but hopefully you'll still notice this question... You state that adjustable link bars must contain atleast 1 heim... Why would Thorbros sell most all of their 4-link kits with 1 adjustable end but no heims if this is the case? Will the thorbros bar ends come loose then?? Or maybe the bars are meant to be welded solid once adjusted to exact proper length?? My truck will be on road use only, so articulation will be minimal.
I am building a traditional hot rod. I saw a 4 link on a traditional build I liked it, but it’s different . It has a bottom link tube at rear end bottom by spring end. The upper one is on top of rear axel 1-2” of the axel tube comes out of the “pumpkin “. The bottom link went straight to cross member. The top went to exact bushing the bottom used. Creating a triangle and they were actually connected with diagonally artistically
Would this cause problems binding?
I think I read that 12 times and I just can’t visualize the system. I thought for a moment you were describing a ladder bar setup but I’m pretty sure you are not.
I don’t suppose you have any photos?
Question. Do you have hats for sale? Like the one you wear I your videos? Would definitely be interested in buying one if available. Thanks.
Thank you! You unknowingly just rescued my domain name. I started the process of building a store last year but I’ve been dragging my feet, working on videos when I have time instead. I just checked on it and it has expired. 😳
That was the long way of saying, No, sorry. I’ve been getting that question a lot though so I guess I better get on it!
What differential are you using on the Mighty Max?
Ford 8.8 from a 2002ish Mustang GT
Gosh I hate the feeling of coming out of anesthesia. Worse than a really bad hangover. Hope all is well with you.
Really?! I thought it was quite interesting. This was my first time. And only time so far. It was like waking up from a good nap that I didn’t remember taking.
Things are great! How are you, Kevin?
Why didn't U use the original mounts on the rear end?
Are you referring to the bushings on the differential? The axle is from a Mustang that uses a triangulated 4 link design. I’m trying to get away from that design so the angled bushings wouldn’t work properly with forward-facing links.
The mounts will be removed to make room for an axle support truss.
I am wondering 1 thing tho does it matter which way the top links go in the triangulated 4 link like if they meet at the diff or at the "shopping cart handle" lol if not do they do the exact same thing or do they serve different purposes? thank you for your time
Changing where the triangulated links meet will change the vehicle roll center a little and the roll axis a decent amount. Plug those into Google to learn a little about them. They change how the body reacts and rolls in turns. Honestly I don’t think you could tell the difference under normal driving conditions.
@@GarageFab awesome thanks again for the help
Anytime my friend.
Are those Nevada license plates in the background? If so, are you around the Reno area?
They are indeed! But no, I’m just outside of Vegas.
@@GarageFab at least I am happy to know your talent is in Nevada! I dig your content, and wish you the best fortune! Cheers mate.
Thank you, Jeff! Your kind words are greatly appreciated. 🙏
If I'm build a track truck with about 700hp. Should I use a heim joint if my link bars are adjustable? Even if it's gonna be on coilovers static drop.
Hey Derek! When you say “track truck”, are we talking an auto cross? The dragstrip maybe? Stiff components are certainly recommended to help put your horsepower to the ground, but Heim joints don’t last forever and are kind of high maintenance.
If you need the truck to handle in turns, definitely go with Heim joints. Suspension components need to articulate freely. Straight line driving, you might be able to save some money and go with Delrin bushings. Still stiff but the articulation isn’t as important.
I am not well educated in racing suspension. I’m basically regurgitating things I’ve read on the subject that I have no way of confirming or disproving because I don’t race.
I’d highly recommend asking other people that are actually in the racing scene.
@@GarageFab yes setting up for drift/auto cross. Can I use one bushing end and the other heim?
You absolutely can and it’s recommended to have at least one Heim joint if your bars are adjustable. Bushings on both ends will cause your locknut on the bar adjustment to loosen when the suspension articulates. One Heim will prevent that.
I understand that you are indicating to keep the bars parallel to maintain pinion angle. However, I thought that the pinion angle being 3-5 degrees down was so that under acceleration, and a little bit of axle wrap-up, the angle would essentially zero out, or be closer to 0 than when static and not under a load. If you are running solid bars that allow NO wrap-up under acceleration, do you still need to run the pinion angle at 3-5 degrees down? I'm watching for your driveshaft video so that I can better understand how to set, and adjust, pinion angle. For example-and not to make this message too long-I have an 08 Chevy extended cab truck with the SUPER LONG aluminum driveshaft. I've blown the shaft up TWICE now because they are not meant for high speed excursions. Literally they get damaged from 130+ mph events and then induce a vibration. This last time I went to a steel driveshaft but due to it's LONG length, it too is having problems. I was told to move to a 2 piece driveshaft and all this crap would be behind me. The factory aluminum shaft was 86.5" center of U- joint cap to center of joint cap. So, now I'm moving to a 2 piece shaft for which I will have to make a cross member for the carrier bearing. To make matters worse-the truck is lowered! So... I need some help figuring out drive line angles for a 2 piece shaft on a truck that did not come that way from the factory, and one that has been lowered 6" in the rear... yep.. lots of fun.
Haha! That does sound like fun indeed! I am working on that video literally as I type. I was questioning whether or not to include the Double Cardan joint in the video but it sounds like you could potentially benefit from it. I hope to have it out in the next couple weeks but a lot of poo is hitting fans left and right around here but I’m certainly trying.
To answer your question; Yes, the 3-5 degrees down rule was created when the majority of vehicles were built with leaf springs that could wind up under load causing pinion angle to change away from the desired angle. This was/is most important with drag race vehicles. The goal then was proper U joint angles most of the time.
So for your second question, If you have a link bar setup with heim joints installed, you will have zero change of the pinion angle so No, 3-5 degrees down should be avoided.
Link bars with bushings could change the pinion angle very slightly. I made a video on bushing deflection if you haven’t seen it. So your pinion angle might then depend on what the vehicle is used for.
You could have two identical vehicles with identical bars and identical bushings but one vehicle is 90% race and 10% steer while the other is 90% steer and 10% race. The race car you might tilt the pinion angle down a degree or so while the street car pinion is at zero. (Side note: The angles themselves don’t matter but the relationship between the transmission and the differential do. They should always be parallel as often as possible.
So if transmission is pointed down 5 degrees, the pinion angle should compliment that angle. (5 degrees up) So when I say “zero” I probably should’ve said zero degrees difference.
Hope that didn’t make things more confusing. 😬
Just like you're builds, you production quality is tight.
Thank you, Steven. You’re appreciated. 🍻
mcmaster sells plastic lined rod ends. they are typ. 10% more than chrome steel rod ends, so forget johnny joints
All rod ends have their place. I’m a fan of Heim joints, but not everyone would enjoy the vibrations from the road being channeled to their bum through their suspension joints. Also they’re meant to be cleaned and oiled on a regular basis which too often gets neglected. A Johnny Joint isn’t quite as needy and provides a lil more comfort.
I was hoping you would make a return!
I’m not going anywhere my man! I just need to build myself a machine that creates more time. 🤷♂️
Love it
Thank you my man! 🙌
@@GarageFab no thank you homie it's a trade that no one wants to show and ur out here showing the people most important the new generation hopefully they use this info and use it and stay away from bad shit
I guess that’s kinda the target demographic. Older folks know how to do things and are unlikely to change their ways. The younger ones though, the ones that can still be molded are the ones that could benefit most from people sharing their knowledge. You are appreciated!
@@GarageFab I'm 30 and I'm still learning that's the beautiful thing about life I have been painted for 10 years and I still like to learn from people with more and less experience u never know.
That’s the only way to be my friend. We will never know everything but we can still try. 🤔
You may want to consider using these if your rich and...dont want to be...😂👍👊 gold ...great vids👏👏
Thank you Andrew! I appreciate your time and eyeballs. Cheers!
What kind of tubing is that exactly?
I use regular mild steel tubing for linkbars. (I am assuming by looking at the video thumbnail that this is the tubing that you’re referring to)
I use 1.5 inch tubing with 1/8 wall for non load-bearing link bars, (bars that do NOT have a coil over or air spring mounted to them) and 2 inch square tubing with 1/4 wall for load-bearing bars.
Do you think that the square tubing would be strong enough for a jeep application
The 2 inch square is a pretty beefy chunk of steel. I think it would be strong enough for most applications!
Do you use gas with the wire weder ? Thanks.
Yes I do! 75/25 Co2/Argon mix. Provides the cleanest welds.
@@GarageFab Thanks for that info.
My pleasure!
@@GarageFab My I ask you whether just a wire welder with no gas would still do the job ? Many thanks again.
@@jackspratt4343 You can get flux core wire that doesn’t require gas. It’s more difficult to learn and harder to get pretty welds but it’s actually stronger. Flux core is often used when making tow hitches and other highly stressed components.
With regular wire, you absolutely can NOT get a good weld without gas. It’s not even worth trying.
Towards the end, you show the bars beside each other, with the bushing pipes lined up like they weren't cut…
What if you did them that way, and cut them after welding the bars in?
Also, the l&r upper bars stay the same distance apart through movement, when they move the same. When they don't (like roll) they are always moving apart.
What if you hooked them together with something that resists expansion, like the springs that pull a porch door closed (but bigger), or a shitload of bungee cords…
Ghetto substitute for an anti-roll bar, that works with 'bags, as long as there is clearance under the bed!
(steering dampener? Nah, that would make bumps harder & rolling slow to return)
Thought #1: That would be interesting. You could definitely cut the bar ends later, but the sides of the bar end should be square so they don’t tear up the bushing as they rotate and I don’t think you would be able to get that assembly into a chopsaw. 🤔
Thought #2: You’re anti-roll system seems like it would work in theory. But I wouldn’t want to try to explain it at a car show. 😂
@@GarageFab a sawzall or angle grinder would be through it quick, but after I posted that I started thinking that the first cut could end in a "ping!" Then all effort would be wasted.
test the idea, then we'll work on a more fashionable way ;)
Old video and series I know but wanted to kinda pick your brain. I know why you wanted to do parallel links but why not do a triangulated link setup? You can still get the same effective link length for keeping the pinion angle. Or at the very least do a semi triangulated setup with those upper links. You wouldn’t have to change much with your setup and could have kept the top links straight making them stronger while making your entire rear end a bit stronger
CZcams basically makes all my decisions for me. This truck already had a Triangulated 4 link. I wasn’t thrilled with how the original builder did it and leaving it alone would not be a very entertaining video. Every modification I do is simply because it would be more entertaining to watch. I built a Watts link for this truck as well. Necessary? No, but a lot more interesting than a panhard bar. Just about everything I’ve done so far, could’ve been done an easier faster way. Luckily I like challenging myself!
@@GarageFab fair enough! I like picking brains to understand the process whenever I can
That’s a good way to be.
I have a 2wd 87 toyota pickup frame you can c notch for a video.
Where are you located?
@@GarageFab Oklahoma.
That’s a long drive to Vegas my man! Perfect example truck though. I’ll hit you up in a few months when I get the Mighty Max rolling under its own power. 👍
@@GarageFab it's a really clean rolling frame. If you're serious I'm willing to put up some gas money and hotel, I'd love to see it get notched I can come pick it up when you're finished with it.
That sounds like the most expensive free notch ever! We’ll have to play that by ear as the time approaches.
I think ur videos are dope wish u would back up a little when speaking in the Camara.
Haha! Am I not pretty enough for you? I’ll try and find a longer arm. 👍
Thank you for the kind words, Rafael. 🍻
They fired me: because no good deed goes unpunished.
They actually fired me because I took too long to do things. But that’s not as fun to complain about.
Okay, this shit is getting frustrating. I'm subscribed and have the damn bell notifications selected and I find three new episodes that I haven't seen. CZcams just doesn't want me watching you bud. Also, when you and the ginger are fighting, remember it's the kids like Richie that suffer LOL.... FTG
So lemme explain CZcams real quick, Whiz. Remember those toys you had when you were like… 11 months old? There were little beads that moved back and forth, a wheel that clicked when you spun it and a button that squeaked? Otherwise they didn’t do shit.
That’s what the subscribe and notification buttons do. Nothing.
Just think of it like a wad of dollar bills you forgot you put in your jeans….
“Oh snap!! A couple new videos!!!” 🙌
I'll be looking to get my Nissan hardbody bagged soon. What's your contact info?
You can hit me up on my Instagram @GarageFab, but I haven’t been taking on projects for hire since I started CZcams.
So unless you’ve got some crazy unique plans, I’m probably not your guy. I’d love hear what you’ve got up your sleeve though!
ok i gotta say the DOM vs Chromoly is sorta ass backwards. Chromoly doesnt need to be pre and post heat treated, so long as you buy it in the correct state {N}. DOM will work harden and begin to crack eventually. Once this starts you will be chasing cracks forever. 4130 was designed to be oxy fuel welded, its made for aircraft. keep the interpass temps good and you are golden. if you want to mig it run real hot but "weld dots" essentially stacks of tacks. in tig we pedal pump to keep the interpass temp down. as long as you dont turn it grey and crystalline itll be fine. for the stuff you build i cant see 4130 being worth the money. race car chassis? yeah, spend the extra dollars so itll last. play car? eh DOM is fine, just dont expect it to last forever. aircraft? yeah dont built it out of DOM.
I’m going to have to figure out where to learn this stuff eventually. The next truck project I intend to focus a lot on weight as I build quite possibly in the form of a full tube chassis. My usual overbuilding won’t do!
@@GarageFab yeah man. over building is for sure the easy and safe way out....but when you ground up you end up with a 12,000lbs toyota mini if youre not careful... Pretty much everything we need to know is covered in "machinery's handbook" though its not always easy to apply to the task at hand.
More good info! I’ll have to check it out.
@@GarageFab theres about a billion editions. look for an old one, great find at garage sales :)
👍🏽🇺🇸👍🏽
🙏
Irs?!
On what? The current project truck is a solid axle parallel 4-link. The next project on the other hand will be IRS. 😉
@@GarageFab that's what was hoping for excited to see what becomes of both builds think irs is going to make more of an impact moving forward in the years to come.
Agreed
hey buddy love videos u should make a-arms for a rear end message me
Wait… what? You mean build an IRS sample? I’d love too! The problem is I don’t know much about the topic. And I certainly don’t know enough to try to teach anyone anything about it.
I hope to learn a lot about it soon though because my next project will have A-arm rear suspension and I’m going to need it to provide a lot of traction.
Thank you, Brandon! 🙏
Please explain your math again
Wait. What part?
Lets get real. Poly bushings are CRAP. Should not be allowed to be sold. You cannot bond poly to an internal or external sleeve. So everything is flopping around like a dick in a hat!! Plus they throw more load back into the chassis and then break pick up points. Or worse break the arms!! And ride quality can be near as bad as a heim joint. The reason you never see it used OEM.
And as for poly outlasting rubber,,,, dream on. Never. I have cars with 150000 miles and still the original rubber. And perfectly serviceable.
And a good teflon lined 1/2" 5/8 heim is about $25 AUD. Straight 3/4 maybe $35.
I have removed the poly junk from so many cars and have welded up too many pick up points. Which is never ideal.
Good poly can have very limited use in production based race cars. For caster arms, some sway bar bushings or leaf spring rear eye bushes. And keep a very good eye on them. Bad poly expires in about 5 miles!! And yes I have had such short life.
In control arms like you are showing should NEVER be used in any application.
A factory style rubber bush is BONDED to its inner and outer sleeve. and flexes on the rubber. The only acceptable and safe way for a road car, modified or not. And has more articulation than any other bushing as it will flex a little to cancel misalignment.
For race cars as pointed out heim joints are generally the way to go. But on a 4 link, more so with unequal length arms they will bind and sometimes big time. May just be ok on a road race car [and I refuse to do it] but never a speedway or off road car. Drag cars are all so bound up I cannot see how they ever move!! Cars must be able to roll, the articulation is very important
A three link can be very good. Two lower links and one top one [and use a bigger heim] to the centre of the diff ideally though even to one side of the axle will work but not ideal. Then the supension has roll in it, not trying to pick up inside wheels or break off pickup brackets.
Making a 4 link that has the arms go to near the centre of the axle is a compromise. Or start from a near central point and go to a axle above the lower links same deal. Used in offroad trucks.
Holy cow! I’m a little short on time for the moment to read all that let alone respond so hold that thought! I’ll be back shortly.
“Flopping around like a dick in a hat” made me literally lol!😂
It sounds like you’ve had a lot of really unfortunate experiences with polyurethane! If that’s true, it would be wrong to say you’re “wrong”… but I very much disagree. I have had nothing but good experiences.
First in regards to your “dick in a hat”, a good poly bushing is a press fit and is anything but floppy. Keep in mind this CZcams channel is entirely rooted in adjustable suspension. (Bagged, hydraulics, etc.) The fact that a polyurethane bushing isn’t bonded to it’s metal components is THE entire purpose of swapping rubber with poly.
With suspension that moves 8 to 12 inches or more, you absolutely cannot use rubber and expect it not to tear. Beginner truck builders (I included) learn this quickly after modifying factory control arms only to find broken bushings in a few thousand miles.
A polyurethane bushing rotates around the inner sleeve making it operate more like a cushioned bearing with infinite movement.
Never before have I seen a poly bushing fail in the time frame you mentioned. I imagine as with anything there are good quality parts and poor ones. I have always bought the best I can afford from reputable manufacturers. And as for mounts breaking, that’s crazy sauce. Needless to say the chassis should be built for the additional stresses and vibrations. Factory mounts are certainly not that. Breakage sounds like an engineering mistake rather than the fault of a bushing.
Some mini truckers really put their polyurethane bushings to the test with side-to-side motion. In other words dropping one side to the ground with the other side at full extension. That’s more articulation than some rock crawlers and still quality polyurethane is unharmed.
I’ll never argue that polyurethane is the best option, but it’s most certainly not crap.
Why would you put a dick in a hat anyway?