Twin Flame Relationships: Healthy or Abusive? With Candace Moon | Season 2; Ep 16
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
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Twin Flame online communities say they’re helping people search for their perfect partner, but have recently ignited controversy with members revealing shocking allegations of being encouraged to stay in abusive relationships. One of those members, Candace Moon, opens about what she refers to as “glamorized narcissistic abuse” within these groups.
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Guest Bio:
Candace is a trauma recovery coach, a writer, a mom of two amazing sons, a mom of two adorable Corgis, and a domestic violence survivor. She offers trauma coaching for survivors and helps them create happy & healthy relationships on their own terms. Her mission is to support, advocate and hold a safe healing space for victims of narcissistic abuse and domestic violence. She is dedicated to standing up for survivors, helping raise their voices, and facilitating profound healing and peace. She has trained extensively in the holistic healing arts and personal development for over a decade. She gets it in a way that only someone who has been through it could. She knows the struggle and also knows how to help you come to peace.
Guest Information:
Instagram - @unliving.the.lie
Twitter - @CandaceRanee
TikTok - candace.ranee.moon
This podcast should not be used as a substitute for medical or mental health advice. Individuals are advised to seek independent medical advice, counseling, and/or therapy from a healthcare professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issue, or health inquiry, including matters discussed on this podcast.
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Narcissists are everywhere and these days it seems like everyone has at least one in their lives! Dr. Ramani Durvasula, a licensed clinical psychologist, will help you spot red flags and heal from the narcissist in your life. Every Thursday, we will hear first-hand accounts from people who know this territory the best, the survivors.
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Decades before any of us ever heard of twin flames, whenI I was young and naive, I deluded myself into believing I was in that type of relationship. I told myself we were one soul. He was the creative, brilliant, mercurial half and I was the dull, stable, conscientious, ethical half. In real life, this meant I supported us financially, kept our home in order, and tried to keep him out of trouble while walking on eggshells all the time. He told me I had a slave mentality and could never survive the real world without his brilliance and passion. Well, I’ve been happily single for thirty years now and seem to be surviving just fine. If souls are a real thing, I have a whole one. “Twin flames” are just gaslighting BS.
While this will get discredited by the “professionals” I would like to say yes I agree it’s abuse but……..
We ARE at the end of a time which has been In religious texts.
Has I not had my own experience I would say these people are idiots. Nut jobs and grasping for straws. That what I’ve felt after having an encounter
I have zero religious background or belief system before what happened to me. Trying to explain in the comment section isn’t going to do it justice.
Here I go, once I had this experience I started learning and healing like no councilor could have given me. I realized I’d been abused by narcissistic people most of my life. I would say this person who was the “twin” opposite of me showed me how my family generationally have been sick emotionally as his was. We grew up in the same town living streets apart never met. We ended up meeting through a life long friend. She herself is narcissistic and I didn’t know this before.
While these ladies talking may not understand the spiritual side it’s been a gift even though it’s been hard.
I have a relationship with God like I never had before, I understand what Revelation means and I understand what’s coming in the future as it ignited my intuitive side . I’ve been told by my religious friend I have been anointed based on the things that have happened since my meeting this guy. I do not have a relationship with him. He is an abuser and doesn’t want to work on himself. While I’ve been skeptical on this twin, flame idea, I’ve realized that ancient text talk about these times, and the gifts that people will gain and because of that, you can’t discredit what’s going on. There’s an unveiling happening. This unveiling is showing us how sick our world is specifically America one can mock God, but God is real whatever that means to you. like I said, I was neither religious, never followed anyone’s spiritual beliefs, but after my experience with this “twin flame, my I see everything that’s happening now, and this narcissistic behavior that’s controlling our system is a beast in nature, and we are to break out of it by going inward and healing ourselves, this is why these relationships are important at this time and we have never known it like we have right now.
Yup!!
Yuuuup. I thought the same about my ex (Patriarchal "Christian" marriage, not twin flames). He was the driven one and I was the follower, the slave, the nobody. Like I wasn't anything without him.
Now I know better. 💗
I am everything I need all by myself! I'm remarried and my spouse and I are two whole, separate people. No "You complete me crap."
@@joanofarc1470 I agree with what you're saying here. I don't subscribe to the Twin Flame ideology yet there were parts of it that were helpful for me. In my opinion, it's truth mixed with lies. I was able to take the microcosm of my experience with my "Twin" and apply it to the macrocosm of what is going on in this world. It was initially very depressing but ultimately very helpful. Thanks for your comment and all the best to you.
@@starlingswallowZZZ😢
It feels like that this twin flame trend is created by narcissists!! It’s dangerous because I kept my heart open and I discarded the red flags due to believe in twin flame!! After my experience with my ex narcissist I got a new set of eyes 👀 and ears 👂
Learning to trust yourself is part of the Twin Flame journey. Ignoring red flags is never advisable.
Sure,it appears like a narcissist created this TwinFlame cult .
New age
Ty, Dr. Romani. I'm 60, spent decades trying to "fix" myself to please a manipulative, cruel hearted husband. I don't wallow in or fixate on it now. I celebrate your work & the blessing it is to others. You're needed
good for you, I hope you experience all the peace, liberation & joy you deserve ✨️
I was in a Twin Flame cult for 4.5 years. Candace actually mentions them here. The teachings she mentions were very similar to ours. The group I was in not only encouraged abusive, toxic relationships but we also received extreme abuse from the leader. We had to endure it because he would constantly remind us that without him, we would never be with our Twin Flame and if we leave him and the group, we would lose everything. Yet no one ever actually got with their Twin Flame with his work so he and his partner just started pairing people up and telling them that was their true Twin Flame. There was more women in the group then men so he started telling women they were actually men and forced them to transition.
The Twin Flame journey will take you down a rabbit hole that you never want to see. I personally no longer believe in Twin Flames, but the concept is getting more and more popular and that frightens me.
You’re confusing your cult with something you don’t understand. I’m sorry you went through what you did but you were never on a TF journey.
@@michaelr5606 No cause it's fake as f*ck.
@@michaelr5606Of course not and neither is anyone else.
@@angmo74 Ok 😉
😊
Key: it's a BIG BUSINESS money making MACHINE.
What I hear a lot is a person ( often a woman) who is obsessed with a person (usually a man) and that man is simply not interested. I feel like it’s less narc abuse and more of a “fantasy” the woman has convinced herself of. I can tell you back in my early 20s, I did this. The guy wasn’t abusive. He just wasn’t into me. I was convinced we were destined to be together. Why? I have no idea. I had a “feeling”. Looking back- I think he was an escape from a rough period in time. He didn’t abuse me, he did nothing. We never were together. I hear lots of women talk about TF, and they are not involved in reality, only in their head.
Yes most of my clients are in abusive situations, but more like bread crumbs or no situation at all. Just feelings and ruminating. Often it's an inner child that is stuck.
There are so many women and a handful of men who are in this exact situation in these groups. All one-sided.
In narcissism called “shared fantasy”
I agree with this. There's a lot of things that fall under the Twin Flame umbrella.
Could be limerence or wanting what you can't have because you are used to feeling rejected anyways a lot of it can be trauma based or not being able to attach to our parents
I agree the twin flame concept is created by narcissists. The grandiose narcissist I was in a relationship with told me we were twin flames and I had never heard of that concept before and bought into it in the beginning because he was so over the top grandiose acting and treating me like his ‘one & only forever’… until I realized the twin flame concept was really unrealistic and delusional “magic” thinking. Now, I do not believe in twin flames and if I meet anyone that does I consider it a red flag
We are whole.we don't need someone to complete us.xx
Even the initial idea of this ideology is so absurd that it is almost ridiculous, especially since the target group only concerns the chosen, especially enlightened souls 😃😅😁😆
The true context of twin flames is not contained in this video. Twin flames is not a 'relationship' as you don't derive your sense of self from the outside. Twin flames are not special nor chosen. Clarity falls short with words here. How do you 'know' you love someone? It's energy. Similarly, there is an inner energy knowing (not the mind) that the other is you. Being 'together' isn't physical; that is why it isn't a physical relationship. It's not magical thinking either. Unless IT happens to a person, people read my words and interpret them based on their life experiences. This is beyond mental concepts. I'll share that I had a kundalini awakening -- a few things was my heart chakra being pulled hard out of my chest for 3 weeks straight and 6 months dark night of the soul. I'm currently 60 y.o. and this occurred a few years ago. The energy is profound so transformative and psychotherapy cannot explain this as they only deal with the mind and behaviors. To truly experience this is to truly go beyond the mind and knowing what true 'consciousness' is in a spiritual sense
I agree except when we don't attach to parents or the rest of the family it leaves us incomplete and we think a relationship will save us I still believe self work and finding a healthy relationship can repair a lot of our broken selves though so I can't just say be happy with yourself and you don't need anyone
As followers of the Buddha Dharma, we do not believe in twin flames. We don't see the divine as a mediator, and we don't believe that our soul is split in two.
This is not just New Age stuff, the theory goes back to the Greeks, Egyptians, Vedas and Mormons and is particularly popular in the West.
But there is a theory in the Dharma that says:
This world is an illusion. How true. We are not saviours for abusive people, no matter what you call them: twin flame, soul mate or karmic relationship.
Use your common sense and you will realise that you are your own master, no one will fill your void but yourself.
Exactly this! as a Muslim who also have learned about the Dharma and did Vipassana I totally agree with you. Plus this life is ever changing depending on how we grow develop and where we deserve to be so how can you tie up your message and destiny to someone else’s journey and motivation in life.
Thank you so much Dr. Ramani for this topic and discussion.
The Twin Flame ideology is so dangerous as it is keeping people “trapped” in abusive and toxic relationships.
My humble opinion, we are whole individuals from the day we are born, I AM whole spiritually, I AM my own Twin Flame. The human life experience can cause trauma and wounds emotionally, but I have the ability to seek out the help and healing support to work through and heal individually.
My twin flame is myself ❤
The cognitive dissonance is so real and strong, so the trauma bonding. I said to myself that the reason his toxic behavior was getting worse and that he was cheating, was because of his son's death and the grief, that he needed me and needed support regardless of the abuse he was doing, that I could not abandon him. Sadly, we end up justifying the behavior and many times staying💔 Not until we get educated on this topic, we can't see clearly, and get out of these toxic relationships like many of us have gotten out of it and healing.Thank you, Dr. Ramani for the education and support, and your guests for sharing these experiences with us so that we don't get stuck in these relationships❤
Out of curiosity, I visited the twin flames subreddit. It was a miserable and exhausting read.
Twin Flame = Narcissistic Excuse
I can feel my twin flames energy telepathically. I can feel when she cries or becomes sexually aroused and this is NOT subtle. I also experience synchronicity on a level I never experienced before. The twin flame connection is very real. This is just close minded and judgmental. You can call the twin flame community dogmatic, but I can call mainstream psychology dogmatic in it's refusal to include the spiritual component of psychology.
The twin flame connection isn't about "Finding your other half" It's about becoming whole within yourself and growing as a result of the energy dynamic. It's a real thing, it's just rare so people say it doesn't exist. Can someone mistake a codependent/narcissistic relationship for a genuine twin flame relationship, interpreting stonewalling behavior as a twin flame runner? Yeah, but it doesn't mean the twin flame connection isn't real. I assure you it is.
I agree! The problem is the internet happened. Everyone has learned of the term twinflame, so everyone thinks or wants to be labeled a twinflame. Karmic (narcissistic) relationships and twinflames are not the same. True twinflames know.
@@n.b.0212 Exactly, but it's a double edge sword. If it weren't for the internet, I never would have met my twin flame. So it's allowed for more twin flame connections than ever, but it's also attracted a lot of wannabes.
I get what you're saying and hope I didn't offend, but you understand what I'm speaking of with the internet. I meant the sharing of info spreads further and faster.
@@n.b.0212 I got you. You didn't offend.
Thank you cause this video really pissed me off cause she’s so closed minded & acting like a genuine narcissist lol if you’re not a twin you just can not understand
Oh my goodness, this is so toxic and awful, it should be illegal! My heart breaks for the people in this community. Thank you for taking on this topic, Dr. Ramani
Weird. I got so much out of my "twin flame connection". My previous relationship, I was cheated on and we ended up getting a divorce. Meanwhile, this is the time that I met my twin flame and he was going through a separation. Our relationship was definitely a spiritual awakening for the both of us. He knew exactly what I needed and that was to move back home and be with my family. Because of him I am now 3 years sober and I have a healthy relationship with my family.... And I have money in the bank. We are now in no contact and I believe I'm at the final stage of my so-called inner union. Whatever this journey is I definitely got a lot out of it and finally feel emotionally stable. And thank God I met this guy.
Any real, spiritual idea can be subverted. I think this is what this video addresses. You may have the ‘real thing’.
Good for you! I'm glad you had a positive experience.
I am SO SO GLAD you adressed this! I was a victim myself! And with my own therapist who turns out to be a narcissist. He ghosted, stonewalled, manipulated and was gaslighting me and in the ends discarded me without any closure. Today im saying another to adress it. I was able to get out when i called him out on gaslighting and he took no responsibility. He left me so confused that I started to watch taro as well to decrease my anxiety (haha) and started to believe we are twin flames because I could not understand the hot and cold he put me through...I like how you put it: take all the red flags and repurpose them
Whether twin flames are narcissists or not we are still human and this video is a poor representation of a twin flame relationship. No where have I ever read anything that encouraged me to stay with my twin but instead put up healthy boundaries and move on with my life if need be, maybe I just fell into a different sphere of twin flame content but what this video doesn’t cover is twin flame separation. If you unconditionally love your twin when you separate you will learn an avalanche of lessons and begin a healing journey and this is where I believe narcissistic traits can be overcome, some twins will reunite and have a healthier relationship dynamic others will move on and apply their lessons in the next relationship. Either way there is a lot of growth in a true twin flame relationship with unconditional love as the lesson
🎯
If you’re a forensic psychologist, therapist, you’ll view twin flame ideology through a different lens.
58:18… “Angels among us who continue to get hammered by life.”
Thank you for saying this Dr. Ramani !!! This was my Mothers story. She passed away never having seen her days get better. She truly was an Angel among us.
Thank you for this!! I made a video about it about a year ago called " thers no such thing as a twin flame"and got so many negative comments.... If you're not grounded then the spiritual path will get you no place. Espacialy with the law of attraction that teaches that you can attract everything. So people try to attract their dreams TF that does not exist (or related to the existing person. )🙏
Yes I get hate too for saying you don't need to end up with your twin. and to wait til you are 100 yrs old to decide what label to give all the connections you will have in this life. It's about are your needs getting met in the 3d.
Thank you Dr. Ramani for speaking about this! It is so important. When I work with people who are in very intense love dynamics looking and studying their astrological charts I see the connection threads between them but is quite opposite of twin flame. This magnetic attraction is based on deep plutonic charge between the both lovers. They experience this as extreme irresistible attraction to one another, sexuality and super intense confusing emotions. However there is allways the presence of subtle darkness which is constantly erupting and is pure poison (the sexual energy is driven by subconscious hatred, aggression, guilt and shame instead love). It is very heavy and feels impossible to find really stable/healthy ground. People find themselves in cycles of never ending pain.
This plutonic charge brings individuals together because the negative magnetic attraction must be transformed it needs to be released in order to heal and let go of one another and be free again.
Yes, we need deep connections because we want to experience that shared depth almost melting into one another. We crave for that deep closeness which is beyond words. But here why in plutonic dynamics is the opposite. This conection is from another timeline and it is based on trauma.
Past event which was deeply disturbing and painful. Our systems get connected through that damage. Literally we have pieces melted into one another not through love instead it is the wound which is connecting us. Highly magnetic, dark chunck of information/energy (Mordor like) in our both systems which attracts us to one another, plutonic charge.☻💣🌋💔
We need to be in a healthy and stable ground before getting into commitment. If we are feeling not enough it shows we have experienced not healthy emotional foundation in our families from the very beginning. This gives us the feeling that we're not whole not loved, accepted for who we really are. We hope someone is going to come (the twin flame) to complete us and bring us back to our wholeness. Because some parts of our personality were accepted in the family and other not likable/difficult to deal with for our parents we shut down ourselves to survive. This separation is very painful. That trauma needs to be seen understood in order to heal the self. We experience deep healing when we meet people in life which are seeing us and we feel encouraged, inspired, moved to grow that part-s of the self and go back to our wholeness.💚🌱
I have always pursued a “spiritual” path, which set me up for the idea of soul mates. I did not believe in the twin flame ideology, but was convinced that the man whom I married was the only one for me. Which allowed me to ignore the multitude of red flags before we were married. It allowed me to stay stuck in a toxic narcissistically abusive marriage for over 3 decades. (Well, it took me about 10 years to safely leave and not be destitute.) This discussion is actually helping me to forgive myself for my delusions and trauma bonded insanity. Thank you for continuing with these posts that help all of us one step at a time to heal and move on.
These twin flame dynamics are narcissistic relationships.
Absolutely love this! So many clients go into deep depression and even suicidal. It's hard to say that these kinds of connections are spiritual and bringing more love to the planet.
Real spirituality no need anybody and no attachment. Feel complete and peace within yourself.
Thank you so much for finally saying what needs to be said!!! Personally, I think the "twin flame" concept is very damaging for someone who is healing from abusive relationships. It can and will set the healing process back. It is a false concept that is extremely toxic. Everyone is born spiritually free, and no one shares anyone else's soul. Be a whole person, not a half person.
It has taken so long to get myself back after my abusive relationships, and now I am at the point where I am starting completely over. I've had to disconnect myself from everything and everyone, start over in a career, and I have finally reached the point where I'm just done. I realize that I can not save everyone, it is not my job, I no longer put others before me and realize I can't help anyone until I help myself, and I will never go back.
I find it disturbing that there is a cult that is trying to force people together and tell people to put up with and stay in the abuse? Disturbing!!! Personally, this is the problem in society and why narcissism and toxic relationships are on the rise. In my opinion, this concept should be taken down and banned on the internet. It's basically just like a "black market" for narcissistic abuse. I have been in these abusive relationships, and they can be extremely dangerous, and I don't agree with a cult encouraging people into these situations and putting people in violent situations.
A full blown Narcissist/psychopath must have created this "twin flame cult." Just my personal opinion.
The problem is we are made to attach and bond so if we bond the wrong way with our families and if they are toxic a lot us use fantasy and magical thinking to make up for what we didn't get we all have to survive somehow
Thank you for this video, it makes a lot of sense but I am also scared of hundreds of coaches and therapists who address narcissism on the Internet. It also seems that everyone is narcissist and navigate these two extremes (one which claims to be spiritual and one more scientific) is not an easy task. Let’s say that there is so much confusion nowadays and that human beings are often trapped into a virtual sea of information. What I have learned through life is also that using too much of our rational side can be very harmful. Either way, the twin flame cult and the massive narcissism theory.
Thank you for this!!! Great helpful episode again. The last bit is the best line I'll repeat for myself regularly. "the greater lesson :the other half of your soul is the part you quieted (silenced, abandoned) because others invalidated it. Instead of looking outside of us for answers... Look within!"
This community mirrors my own spiritual abuse from fundamentalist Christianity. It's the same narcissistically abusive siren song, different translation.
It all makes sense except one thing. Why do you think women start to believe they are in twin flame so called “journey” rather than in a narcissistic/ dysfunctional relationship? You mentioned that most of them seem to be smart, intelligent, reasonable… my thoughts are: because they start to experience strange phenomena that lead them at the end to this twin flame concept… what do I mean by strange phenomena: lets say you were never interested in spirituality that much. Suddenly you have all these synchronicities all over the place. You start to see repetitive numbers, symbols, its like this spiritual world start to call you from everywhere. You start to feel that there is something more than your physical body. You actually feel this connection energetically and you somehow are “activated” to feel and sense the spiritual world. Then after all these strange and mysterious things happen in your life you discover the concept of twin flames. And discover that you met this person primarily to start your spiritual journey not necessarily to be with this person. I know how it sounds… crazy, right? But its really difficult to explain to someone who’s never been in this place. Is there any chance for you to actually accept that maybe… its just another path to start spiritual awakening? Because we live in a spiritual world and not always everything is as it seems to be?
yeah, that's what happened to me. Had no knowledge of this concept beforehand. Some of the things that happened were inexplicable
Twin flame actually means a person that went trough similar life experiences and have similar outlook in life and support each other trough life in the loving way.
Trauma bond is when people think they are a twin flame but in reality one of them are abusive and are just bonded trough trauma not love like twin flame bond long term.
Twin flames concept is not biblical.
The person I met and I had similar issues...I spent myself helping him...he drained me..I thought it was a Twin flame and it turned out to be a narcissstic abusive relationship..I was empathic...after years of mindgames..I am not as empathic I am burned out and that scares me..
That conversation about manifestation and how we manifest our abuse is an awesome and Powerful conversation. I can't believe you guys just hit on that so beautifully. Not knowing or caring much about twin flames, I could have easily bypassed this podcast. I'm so glad I listened. Thank you for bringing it, it's just another aspect of the evil Among Us.
I know people who believe in "Twin Flames". Some use it as an excuse for unrequited obsession. They'll say someone (who may be married) is their twin flame, but their married twin flame just hasn't evolved enough to realize it. It allows them to justify obsession & skirt the moral quandary of obsessing over someone who's made vows to someone else..
And it allows some to indulge in both obsession & grandiosity: They'll themselves they are the twin flames of famous people who neither know nor care who they are. One woman I knew believed she was a star's twin flame - in two lifetimes, no less: that she was the reincarnation of Mabel Normand and he was the reincarnation of Buster Keaton from the silent film era. It can get pretty crazy.
But really, who wants a half a soul? How about nurturing your soul/spirit which is wholly yours, go about your life, and if you meet a healthy loving person, wonderful.
Facts. Its a way to justify co-dependency. What if that person doesnt want to be their twinflame or see it that way? then what? I think people who believe in twinflame concept live in lala land and want that Disney romantic story.
Agree. Lala land indeed. If they want a Disney romantic story, hey go nuts. But not with someone who doesn't know them, isn't interested in them, or is in a relationship with someone else. @@subaru-tecnica629
Thank you again for great information
Dr. R your professional and empathic response to this sad cult amazed me! Grown women falling under the spell of social media is frightening.
Bravo for talking about this, there is a lot of this on the net.. it is justifying narcissistic relationships, you are 💯 correct.
Really, thanks . Great topic 👏 👍
Thank you Candice for speaking out. I too was in what I believed to be a Twin Flame relationship. He had many narcissistic traits and I was told that I could change things if I just loved myself more. I was told that simply he was my Twin Flame, my other half, he would change in relation to my changes because he was me. Whatever triggers I saw was an invitation to challenge myself to heal. I got to the point that I thought it was unloving to allow myself to be abused. Then there was the challenge that if I left him, I was letting the rest of the collective down. I got to the point that I realized that I couldn't do my mission of I stayed. I have a higher mission than to love someone who is abusing me. The whole objective that Whatever I was triggered about was what I had to heal within myself. We saw a Twin Flame couple counseling others and whenever he hurt me, he would say go heal your trigger. It was deliberate. I couldn't agree more with you Candice. Thank you. 💗
I met my twin flame before and believing that I am loved and special. Now I realize that this is also another abuse. No more… I love myself and nobody can come to my life again to do the same thing 😊Thank God that I watched this video. Thanks to both of you.
This Twin Flame model is such a dangerous and nonsensical precedent ! clearly not suggested by a healthy and wholesome person . RUN RUN RUN !💯🏃♀🏃♀🏃♀🏃♀ Once a person has sufficient Self Respect , you just don't repeatedly accept Abuse , glamorize it and then tolerate it .
A "Twin Flame" is a toxic-positive way of saying an abusive relationship or trauma bonding.
🎯
I feel like I know my twin flame, and it's difficult. I would never think I am above other people who don't know theirs.
It’s a shame that the concept has been bastardized and misused as much as it has. Too bad these conversations never seem to include anyone who actually lives with the TF phenomena playing out in their and their Twin’s lives.
Exactly!
I agree. These women have obviously not experienced it for themselves, so they are talking about eating strawberries without actually having eaten them for themselves. This 'doctor' Ramani sees everything through the lens of narcissism. It's become the new go-to explanation for everything. The fact is, the entire culture we live in is narcissistic in some way or another and is entirely run by psychopaths, so is it any surprise that people often display narcissistic traits? These people and their toxic 'psychology' cause just as many problems as narcissists, in my opinion. It just becomes a divisive quagmire where all the 'victims' can point the finger and be sanctimonious together. I never heard about the phenomenon until I experienced it for myself. I have never joined any 'cult' and never discuss it with anyone. She (the twin) is not narcissistic. I am not with her. It hurts. It is as it is. Nobody to blame. No pop psychology necessary.
I understand everything what you’re saying… and still I think: thus is your experience. Tell it to thousands of people whose spiritual experience is completely different. The question is: do you believe in spiritual world? Do you believe that two people can experience sth so deep and spiritual that it can not be explained with what we know?
Looking lovely Dr. Ramani🥰
I've experienced some very spiritual things like telepathy, chakra merges with someone I thought was a TF. Without searching for it I might add. I thought there would be more but the emotional abuse and narcissism over took it and I was filled with rage and resentment. This is an excellent video but it's very odd that at least in my experience there was some actual spiritual growth that was uncanny and obvious for me. But I also realized i could have telepathy with others so he is not special and not the only one for sure. It made me a stronger person because I can deal with other difficult people now a lot easier but damn it would've been nice if it were just a normal, loving relationship.
I’ve experienced the same thing, the spiritual aspect is strong and unique. However, these relationships are always toxic and dysfunctional. I grew so much through this, I’m thankful. But the ideologies and the cult aspect of it are extremely dangerous.
Sure many parts of the twin flame journey are very real and wakes you up to lots of spiritual gifts but if your needs aren't being met then it's time go. It's staying too long that's the problem. Take the growth and gifts and keep moving to someone stable in the 3d.
@@twinflamerehab Agree! I just wonder where and how all this ideology came about. The fact that there is actual growth available in the relationship (for the purpose of YOU not them). And by growth I don't mean only not letting bad people take advantage of you, I mean the spiritual abilities. I really want to shed the mystery ya know. Maybe if we can find that out we can repurpose this phenomena for other generations.
@@twinflamerehab watching your channel atm by the way lol
Completely agree that telepathy should be a given in communication, not exceptional. If it were a given, these "Twin Flame" relationships would have less power.
Very good episode. Please teach us more about toxic espituaĺity. Thank you always.
Thank you for this video I felt for this twin flame thing
I would love an opportunity to talk with Dr Ramini about twin flames. I've been working as a coach for twin flames for several years and I agree completely that there are many narcissistic traps and teachers that take advantage. A good coach would never try to bind a person to the TF relationship but rather teach them to respect themselves and move on completely. Not every TF teacher follows the methods discussed in this podcast, but I think think many do and it's important that this type of teaching is exposed because many vulnerable people are taken advantage of by charlatans.
Doreen Virtue really pushed the 'Twin Flame' ideal. Ugh! As a career psychic I am always having to deal with people in these 'twin flame' relationships that are horrible. They only want to know how they can 'heal' the relationship. When I let them know there is no healing this relationship. It takes forever to get these people to leave the toxic relationship. When they do it takes a while for the person to heal from the relationship(s). They need so much support and love once they leave the 'twin flame' relationship.
I’d always eschewed the temptation to pay credence to the concept due to emotional, psychological exhaustion from being involved and escaping a relationship with a vulnerable narcissist.
I believe in Twinflames.Twinflames aren’t supposed to be together and in Union until both love themselves fully first. Until they fully let their Twinflame go and focus on self love first. This means letting go of anyone who’s toxic. It means having boundaries. It means you heal.It’s just like anything else rather it’s a job or church,there are always going to be toxic people intertwined in things. It’s about putting god first and surrendering.
I appreciate this objective approach and it helps me in the healing process. Amen true "Love doesnt hurt" i said this same statement to my friend and self this woke me up about a year ago. This is a tough serious matter and topic. I am a real true tf. been on this crazy ride exactly 4 years feeling like the twighlight zone....(i finally free) .I had no idea what one was or what a narcissist was and what i was in for, while all these strange things began to happen to me that was unbelievable and difficult to explain to just anyone. i even had a moment where he got hurt and i felt it--so its very real (among other strange things)
Twin flames is very very real. It is not a cult....its the people that make it that way. There is way too much misinformation on the subject, there is cult-like groups and people making money on the topic (just like w any other business). I also agree that the twin flame relationship (based on my own experience) starts from the soul recognition with some type of love period then it turns toxic. its crazy, no lie. and this is the point where one can get stuck in a loop.
I was and still healing. Its heartbreaking. I agree that we can get taken thinking there will be some type of Union which has not been able to hold (in my experience). Then once you get your self esteem back by that time your like F- it. bc you already healed.....Narcissists are very real as well. But they are not the same but very similar. Your TF can also start acting like a narc. Its the craziest experience and phenomena and is serious, real and sometimes i wish this never happened to me. 😔 i am typing they are either reincarnated as a soul having a different experience or could be different dimension so IDK i never searched or looked for my TF it just happened..... and yes they do try to rationalize and there is no excuse for this.
I believe I am on a TF journey, which is spiritual in nature. First, there are two different things: the label TF used by cults and narcissistic persons and the TF journey itself. The journey is rare. Not everyone has a TF, and thanks God. I don't wish this journey to anyone.
When I heard about the TF concept for the first time, I thought, what a horrible dynamic. As an open-minded person interested in spirituality, I have thought, thank God, that even if TF exists, it's unlikely to be one. A few months later, I met my TF. I am not someone who would fall into limerance. I don't feel comfortable in relationships which seem to be a dead end after some time. I would have no problem ending a relationship if it passed its expiration date. However, what I have experienced with my TF is unexplainable, sometimes form scientific knowledge point of view. There were moments when I asked myself whether I was losing my mind. I only felt reassured that probably not because I felt better, more whole. In these rare moments when I was seeing my TF he told me that he experienced some unexplainable things as well. However, we have never labelled our relationship TF.
A year and a half into the journey, I can say it works as a psychotherapy on steroids, and I had two psychotherapists before. They helped me tremendously, but they couldn't help me to open my heart and to heal my wounds. They taught me to understand it and manage it. The journey healed me profoundly, making some wounds to go away; but the price is hudge. The process is painful and intense and not for everyone for sure, but I have always had this desire to feel whole and to grow. And my twin flame? This is one of the most beautiful people I have ever met. Inside and out; no narcissistic traits, no abuse; only respect, an open heart and the ability to be accountable. Are we together now? No, but does it matter?
If you are on a journey, use it for healing. If you are not, don't judge. It's difficult enough. And don't dream that your crush is your TF. It's likely that if they really are, you won't be together.
Candace Moon, great job in this encounter group or twi flame subculture. 🙌💡👍👂💯
I feel like tiktok and tarot readings are what is helping this brain cancer spread. But I feel like they omitted an important question - what is it exactly about these supposed connections that's so different than any other relationship? Do you guys experience hallucinations, can feel their presence or touch when they're not there... What is it exactly that's sooo different?
So I haven’t listened to the whole podcast but I will say the Kabbalah Centre does state that in order for this “twin flame” to work one must be working on the path to making oneself better, once one achieves or strives for this betterment (removing selfish desires) the expectation is more healthy relationships come your way. Of course it is not always the case.
Soul division happens in realms like ours. But ultimately are one. These are NOT and I emphasize not ideas or hypotheses that have anything to do with the practicality we need in life.
I think the obsession/ coercion one can get for another person ultimately can ultimately hinder the twin flame concept. And thats just it, these new age things should never replace medical or psychological interventions but the truth is, when you’re truly seeking yourself to better yourself things do tend to fall in place.
Thank you for talking about this. Twin flames is mystical magical thinking to facilitate easy manipulation. I think that twin flames is just as destructive as Game Theory.
Hi everyone, I needed to say that everything that I've said is because dr. Romney has taught me. and I keep listening . I began reading her book years ago and then I heard a TED talk or Google talk and she is a real doctor a real therapist a real trauma therapist she is the best of her field. Whatever lingo or words that I throw around aren't mine. I don't deserve any upvotes. I'm learning and growing so much thanks to medcircle and Dr Ramani (Romney, edit, spelling meant Dr Ramani) everything is coming together like light bulbs going off in my head. Trauma bonds untethered. Or trauma bonds untethering to reforming a healthy way of self talk thats self affirming.
Without knowing it or without it was me that was able to learn a little bit more about how to be a free woman. My origin was oppressive. To be around so many well-traveled well-read and then see educated and so smart of doctors gives me so much comfort hope and peace. How thankful I am for every upload every social media post every video to listen to with my notebook or journal. Thank you for doing so much for us that are trying to make sense out of ourselves our lives are relationships and how to live. I learned instead of worrying about how to live just be in life.
I've learned with great relief I'm just like everyone else meaning we all have the same couple things going on in our lives and we all struggle to manage it and we do the best we can and that example shines so bright to me.
I call every incidence of alcoholism, narcissism (relabel pain mgmt drinking as bad) to keep myself away from drinks.
Dear doctor and to this community, if I could send you money for your insight, help, moving people forward and for me gaining more mental clarity!! I thank you for helping me understand complex issues like feminism. I was taught it's wrong and evil. And I was turned against it to survive. I didn't understand a darn thing back then. I still don't understand it all but wow I'm so thankful to be here near you all. I learn so much, read, pray, explore ideas like what a twin flame and was that a romanticy, love bomby, tell a girl or lady anything she wants to hear like twin flame grifts. How absurd. And they get away with it via the law of mirroring and projection.
And twin flames while it seems so beautiful connective and romantic it is part of the traits of mystical magical thinking..
But I've learned because I've had so many that caught in this realities with religion Roman Catholic Italians Serbian Orthodox Yugoslavian Serbians some little Protestant religion didn't mean much to me I thought it was dsyregulated proles yelling on a Sunday morning (in church) I found peace in Taoism,other world religions to study as if I was a anthropologist or historian of art to paint it all. I love Education and Books. It hurt that people around me didn't want to see me succeed and they didn't believe in me. If they did believe in me they were insecure. Dr. How you describe the family of origin, traits of a narcissist, and their trajectory, is saving people so much pain and suffering.
I still believe that I have two things my work and my art if I bury myself in my work if I bury myself in my art but I'm healthier and safer that way I go through that a lot
Back in the 1990s I don't know how but they will buy these expensive things like pieces of jewelry. Diamonds. Tooo much.
And I never took to tha.t I got in trouble for buying rocks one day at a home/craft/arts/stone-rock show. It had to do with stones, bracelets, decorations for home. A twin flamer said, yuck he doesn't like decorations for home. I thought, yep, get away from this guy
Leave any person that goes towards twin flame talk. It's a grift to distance yourself from. The sincere authentic hopeless romantics fall for this all the time. Me too.
I am shocked with how many toxic romántic love things they make you normalise. This is narcisism with patriarchy in one sick love story. They teach us from childhood that romantic love is our main goal in live. We, women have to unlearn all the harmful sexist ideology they put in our mind.
Good for you to be out of there!❤
This is NOT a new concept. I first heard about twin flames more than 20 years ago. And while desperately seeking my “twin flame” I ended up the most toxic relationship that almost left me DEAD. Abusive, toxic and a scam! Twin Flames concept is all bad.
I am in a twin flame dynamic , I no longer call him a twin flame he is an awakening partner who was sent to move me towards and ignite a forced spiritual awakening. This is a real 5D experience. However in the 3D it’s bullshit, it’s often toxic. I have a child with my TF and yet when I had an ego death, I inmediately ended it. If you’re in a real twin flame union, YOU WiLL NEVER endure abuse. Believe me, the dark night of the ego strips away all conditioning and although this person triggers you, you won’t stay. This is the real point. Most people haven’t met their twin flame as they continue to perpetuate toxic relationships.. I still have to Coparent and yet I am not with this person. He doesn’t get to be toxic towards me or our child. And yes the twin community is super toxic and not real. True spiritual teachers don’t perpetuate this nonsense. You also realize ( during the ego death period) they do not complete you. It’s sad this craziness is perpetuated.
I concur same experience, and it ignited an awakening so profound. I’m very thankful for it. Otherwise I’d be asleep just like the rest of the people these two people may not understand but there is a spiritual experience happening right now that these people don’t understand until it happens to you you can’t even possibly understand.
@@joanofarc1470 I agree
True
i call it the second awakening when you finally get to a point where you can see the person for who they really are (like your friends see them) and you wake up to reality. Then you are free of the twin flame drama.
@@twinflamerehab yes this exactly… I am finally feeling free from the “drama”. Now we just have to Coparent for our Child!
I'm only a few minutes into this and am compelled to say that the concept of "twin flame" feels VERY toxic just in itself! Somehow, I knew from a very young age that the notion of anybody else "completing" you was a seriously effed up way to look at relations because its premise is you're not a whole person on your own - a deeply dehumanizing cconcept IMO.
Completely agree with you. Some good comments on here but some well wierd ones as well. No such thing as twin flame. We need to be our best selves and make healthy connections
The Narc would suck me back in, act like we are in a relationship and then start to fade and say 'he doesn't know what he wants...' Same song and dance!
Divinely guided to one another to learn lessons run like hell when you see a man is a narcissist
We are actually energetically connected to anyone we have ever been intimate with, just not as much.
I can tell you as an abused man .. I was definitely NOT the dominant in my two relationships. I do believe this twin flame / dominant / masculine contributes largely towards this misperception of male being dominant aggressor, and furthers the abuse towards men
Thanks Dr Ramani. There are actually a lot of false information there about twin flame out there. This video helps to clarify the subject. As a suggestion for another interview, I suggest an interview with Nigella Lawson, a British TV goddess, whos husband put hand on her throat violently in a famous restaurant in London. A very famous story of 2013.
And did the twin flame bruise paint you blue? Just between us did the love affair maim you too? Cause in this city’s barren cold I still remember the first fall of snow and how it glistened as it fell. I remember it all too well.
Twin flame is when you feel like deep felling of home on both sides, when you feel you know each other for a long time .
When the silence is very comfortable. When you know what other person means beyond words .
Question...why do we believe in the twin flame dynamic? Maybe from a sense of lack within the self? . I agree that you don't ask for abusive relationships however you do have childhood wounding that is/ can be triggered by relationships in general. True spirituality is yourself and god. ANY relationship that causes triggering isn't to be ignored. If we were'healed' we wouldn't have split energy about situations. We would understand the complexity of them and act accordingly. It's highlighting what you already have stored. This does not mean you stay. We all have inner guidance. The reason we stay in abusive dynamics is about the stories we tell ourselves which were given or learnt from an early age. The message should always be 'Who am I'. It's never about another 🙏
I recently learned that my friend was targeted by narcissistic woman from Twin Flame community. She cheated and abused him He does not understand what is happening to him I think there are a lot of toxic women in this community. Obviously not the lady who is talking
When i watched couples like "twin flame revelution," I think... ok, maybe a toxic relationship can evolve into something more conscious and healthy? But on the other hand, I see the twin flame dynamic as a narcissistic relationship and abusive and fallible.
It's confusing to know what is real and what is not...
Can a toxic relationship evolve into something more functional, or are they always destined to fail?
"Can a toxic relationship evolve into something more functional, or are they always destined to fail?" That's a great question.
Been in the TF community. In the group I followed there were a lot of older women with much younger men. Many are married to others so there are problems immediately. There’s also the concept of the False Twin.
And near twin, karmic, catalyst, insert label of the day.
@@Witchy_Woman label of the day is so spot on.
So far it's been %100 abuse all abuse, I chose heaven some how ended up in hell it's insane
The ending 💗✌🏼
I also think that these so called twin flame connections are really just karmic relationships that get sent to teach you to love and care for urself more, she helped me heal a childhood wound caused by by mother rejecting me as a child....
Thank you
for the trauma bond engaging talking about real issues
Had my share of push & pull relationship so true Candace this is not love
Thank you
They are just long standing karmic relationship, that went on for many lifetimes. They are very toxic for the empath involved. Soul growing, yes, loving, heck no. They are the polar opposite of love. I m still healing in this lifetime one as such and the guy was a dark triad individual with loads of sadism.
I wasn't in any cult but I bought into the bull shit and put up with a toxic narcisistic relationship for 50 years when he passed away! I absolutely cringe whenever I hear someone talk about twinn flames!
Hello, so you bought into it for 50 years?
Would a narcissist say that they would make a bad spouse?
Would they warn you, that they would not make a good partner?
She met a narcissist period. The sad truth is that people think they found their twin flame. Unfortunately it is not for everyone.
Oh Jesus, watching about 3 mins of this podcast and I have to revise my comment. Soul dividing is not what she explained, should not be taken literally, and is complicated probably beyond human consumption at this point. Anytime someone takes advanced spiritual concepts and begins to apply them literally in their lives, we have problems. Josesph Cambell said it best, “The Power Of Myth.”
What the heck!!!??? As if there is a shortage of narcissists!!! OMG
PLEASE INTERVIEW ROO POWELL FROM SOSA / Undercover Underage
It was Plato who spoke about twin flames.
Plato conceived of a three-part soul: reason(logic), appetites (desires) and spirit. He did NOT conceive of a two-part soul split at birth into male and female. That little gem comes from a 90s Rom Com with Marisa Tomei called Only You, IIRC.
But if you want to look to the Greeks, it was comedian Aristophanes who had the soulmate idea. Plato refuted his claims and said that the idea of soulmates was immature and that mature individuals could have relationships while maintaining independence.
Plato's idea isn't far of from Freud's id, ego, superego
Why would anyone want a carbon copy of your own soul as a partner anyway!
I think it is complete nonsense,sometimes people use this phrase or belief to justify infidelity,sometimes they are in a relationship or marriage,they justify cheating or leaving the person they are supossed to be committed to,because they finally found their twin flame
This was helpful! You should see the Quora twin flamers telling us it’s all about “evolution” charging $35 for private answer sessions. Umm hello? I can post my question on Quora for free 😅
Love in wonderland 😅😮😢
I had a very detailed precise prophetic/precognitive dream involving the person I later (because of the internet being invented) considered the possibility of being a TF.
Another 10 years after that, I came to the realization that the gift of prophesy (or at least a few instances of of precognition) is mine… and has nothing to do with this person.
I met him at age 10, and he did a lot of hot and cold bread-crumbing with me, and the dream came along at 16. I had to assume I saw the future only related to him because we were connected. I hadn’t heard of even soulmates. (There was no internet then). I didn’t consider it was just because he was the only thing in my life I’d been overly focused on for the last 6 years.
I still have to say it does still feel like some weird connection though. 🤔 We were never physically together, so it cannot be an ungodly “soul tie.” It just feels like it came from before this lifetime still, but I can’t remember it, and I no longer care! Doesn’t matter what it was, it just (wasn’t).
What I’d say to people going through this is when you think back on the beginning of feeling this intense connection, think precisely at what point you perceived it as being more than a normal connection with any other human. Was it in the very beginning, or after they began pulling way and offering that push/pull?
The reason why it feels so familiar is because it is due to familiar spirits. The other person usually has an entire attachment that is harvesting your energy.
@@jessysmith7953 Boy, that would make sense, because I’ve always been so low energy. I feel that I have a super bright light, but it’s just almost constantly drained out. It’s only moments in life that I’ve felt it.
@@RachelAnn27 I wouldn’t be surprised hypersensitive/emparas are targeted in these relationships. Protect you energy by praying and staying away from demonic ppl
Being really happy and in love with our own Christ or higher conciousness and whole alone. I heard if I got there my twin flame would be there with the love that I needed to heal. That’s the rub in this world. Those other delusions are so delusional that that kind of thing dosent really happen between people. It’s to related to dependancy. We can manifest our other half in ourselves. Doesn’t help a bit to have them in the flesh.😊
These are great videos. I just didnt like that comment of sounding like the model being written by a dude. Don't forget, twin flame is BIG in the LGBTQ community, and it's not about physical, it's about soul. So .. that really wasnt a fair comment to make.
dr.romani looking at this bch like she crazy hahahah
❣️☮️💡mental health matters
I appreciate you love from Oregon
The whole interview was music to my ears but I do want to support a comment the guest made. She said something about a power advantage this concept gave older men over younger women so it must have been coined by a dude.
Per my research the person who coined this term was Elizabeth Clare Prophet. This was mid 80s I believe and she was middle aged by then. She married her husband who was two decades older than her. She met him at 18 or so. I remember thinking...wow, he really brain washed her by telling her she was his twin flame. If you listen to her original recording - it's on YT - it seems like she is blabbering (apparently channeling a message does that)... Not a word makes sense. It's almost painful to even try to interpret so I gave up. If you read the transcript you get bits and pieces of clarity of what she wants to say...but that's a very small percentage of her entire talk. So I don't know what the audience understood from that. I wonder how much of what she said was what her husband has explained to her.
Thank you for this video Dr. Ramani. Like you I am also working to create awareness about this dysfunctionality but I am a surgeon so I am going about it a different way.
My motivation - a covert narcissist tried all these tricks on me in my mid to late 20s. Pattern recognition helped me stay relatively unscathed. I wasn't very good at psychiatry and maybe it was my intuition that helped. Only last year did I realize he was a covert narcissist. I realized this when I did some research on the twin flame phenomenon for the book I am writing on emotional health. Phew! So it's the twin flame label that led me to understand narcissism. Weird huh?
Sorry for the long message. I felt it may be interesting to add to the discussion.
Or soul
Mate
25:00 he was a grandiose narcissist
26:40 he was not "as bad" as the previous one
27:47 more hurt because of the happy memories
29:00 oh boy this energetic cord that can not be broken, this is extremely creepy to me because only with our own mother do we have a cord that is not just energetic
31:00 funny women "helping" women to stay stuck with those men who "can not do any wrong" (twin flame model)
(don't think I think I'm smarter, I felt for the Christian version of the twin flame thing aka soul mates, it is basically the same thing, just a different packaging)
I didn't know what twin flame was until after we had a shared kundalini awakening. Before this i helped her overcome a cluster b disorder, and she gave me healing for my physical incapacity. The healing energy was amplified because of the twin flame relationship and we experienced paranormal events so frequently that this became the norm.
We met during infancy, and i witnessed her birth. We were thrown together and torn apart by forces beyond our control. We had near fatal encounters too, including once as children where i was pulled from her arms by the deep current, exactly like on the film titanic. This was normal for us.
We defeated the trauma bond from both sides and she began to respond to therapy, becoming whole in a very short time.
I came to defeat the bad wizards described here.
37:36 The women were always given the biggest responsibility to fix everything in the relationship!
This whole things mirrors Christian marriages and the toxicity that goes along with it. Christian wives are taught that if there are issues in the marriage, it's her fault: not enough submitting, sex, prayer, etc. wow.....I'm amazed at how many parallels are between Twin Flame relationships and Christian marital relationships (the Patriarchal ones)😢
Thanks for pointing this out. It definitely mirrors my parents toxic marriage. I grew up Christian. When I realized this I became more Spiritual.
If you experienced this, I am sorry. I have not experienced this in my life as the wife of a pastor and a Christian for 40 years. But church hurt is real, and some people do twist things. I recommend the podcast Cultish because they had on one of the Duggar girls, and what she went through is similar to what you describe.
This sounds like a bunch of experiences from a person who isn’t a twin flame but wants to villanize it because they didn’t find theirs😮