Black Panther: Wakanda Forever - PLOT HOLES EXPLAINED + Questions Answered
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- čas přidán 13. 11. 2022
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Black Panther: Wakanda Forever is a sprawling MCU epic that broadens the scale of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. And in any story this big, there are going to be lots of plot holes and unanswered questions. How did Shuri get good at fighting? Why keep T'Challa's son a secret? Why didn't namor just kill Riri Williams? We answer all these questions and more.
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Written and Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
Edited by Brianna McLarty, Ethan Lavinsky, and Sean Martin
#WakandaForever #PlotHoles
Let’s start where the movie started, at the funeral. At your ugly clone asked, why didn’t a single avenger attend the funeral…not even his best friend Clint Barton who he met at the airport that one time . [I’m clint/I don’t care]. This is a good point. And a few of you also asked why Bucky wasn’t there. Well, Wakanda was an isolationist country for thousands of years, with sacred rituals. They just now opened themselves into the world. It could be that a wakandan funeral is a ritual that sends the person off to the land of the dead.
Ryan Coogler said that this funeral is actually a celebration, and in the movie they sing thanks for the gift of T'challa. So an outsider’s worldly viewpoint might have tarnished the ceremony. Also, maybe there was another service for outsiders. Maybe there were avengers at the funeral, but we dind;t see them.
But I doubt it. The only avenger T’Challa seemed close to was steve-and he’s off on the moon. [he’s on the moon]. There’s also Bucky, but remember, he’s not on good terms with his old friends [stay away from wakanda]. But mostly, there were no avengers at the funeral because if there were, we would have expected them to help out later in the movie.
Brandon Redd asks why the queen questions Nakia’s absence from the funeral, when she knew the reason she wasn;t there. Yeah, the queen knew that -spoiler alert-she knew that T’Chall and Nakia had a son. So she did not approve of her grandchild not being brought to wakanda for his dad’s funeral. Seems pretty obvious.
We also have a lot of questions about T’Challa Junior, namor, and Talocan that I’m going to talk about in just a bit. First, you all had lots of questions about shuri. When Ramonds arrives back from the UN she tells Shuri how infortbale the AI makes her, and talks about how she’s afraid of a rogue AI willingham all out. Henry H \ wondered why shuri just dismissed the rogue AI question when Ultroi nearly destroyed the world just a few years earlier. An event that made wakanda step from the shadows and sign the Sokovia accords.
Well, because shuri is so brilliant, she would have understood how ultron came to be. Ultron is not an ordinary AI-he was given sentence by the mind stone. And the mind stone no longer exists. All of the AI s we see in the MCU are very passive. [arvis, friday, karen].
Squarebear 77 asked why shuri was trying to make another heart shaped herb to save him from this illness when he already had the herb in his blood. Well, I think this one is self explanatory. The herb has healing properties. Concentrated healing properties, like the super soldier serum. Remember, it also cured steve;s asthma.
The herb in t'challa's system was not strong enough to cure his illness, but shuri could have used the herb to create a potent medicine that would have fixed him.
We also had a lot of you questioning shuri’s skills as the black panther. Mot awesome says: Shuri can't fight and never trained yet more agile and acrobatic than T’challa and Daredevil combined during the final fight.
For one thing, I love how she moved during the fight. She actually moved more like a cat than the other black panthers we’ve seen, and it’s more reflective of her fighting style. Shuri isn;t as strong as T’Challa or Killmonger, but she is lighter and faster.
But as for how she learned to fight, come one. IN the first movie, she drops off Ross, then goes to fight killmonger. But on the way she stops to put on her ceremonial combat face paint. You don;t have ceremonial combat face paint unless you;ve been trained to fight. I this move we learn that t'challa was a scientist as well as a warrior, and the reverse is true here. Shuri learned to fight, but focused more on her lab.
Also, she fought killmonger, and she fought in the final battle of endgame. She fought thanos. Have you ever fought Thanos? - Krátké a kreslené filmy
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Wakanda
Hey Ryan, I used fetch with the screencrush code and only received 4000 points total. Am I missing something?
Only received 4K points... not complaining, just letting folks know
Also only received 4000 points. Glad to get it but wanted to let you know
The app says I get 3,000 points....
You lied Screencrush.
The small hint of judgement when he answers some of the stupid questions is perfection.
Are they stupid questions?
They aren't stupid questions and some of them he didn't even answer. The boat scenario is still insanely stupid. ScreenCrush said "why would Talocan attack them in the mountains". BECAUSE NAMOR SAID HE'D BE BACK IN ONE WEEKS TIME. They don't have to lure Namor there since he'd come on his own. Jesus Christ
@@shinkounova8485 I think he was referring questions like "why were there so many women in this movie?"
@@shinkounova8485 yeah but their mines and stuff is somewhere else so if they hid in the Jabari mountains the talocans could invade the rest of Wakanda and get much richer with vibranium, technology etc.
@@shinkounova8485 yes he would come on his own but what makes more sense go hide in the mountains and just wait for him show up giving him more control or bring the fight to him first so you dictate how and when the attack starts
Shuri's and Riri's plan wasn't to use a dehumidifier or heater on Namor... it was to starve his body and brain of oxygen. Like a jellyfish he takes O2 in via diffusion. Fun fact: drier air actually contains *more* oxygen molecules per unit volume than humid air so maybe he'd get an itchy rash but he'd actually be taking in a richer, more nourishing mixture of air... not ideal.
What they end up doing, and the reason they both geek out in unison over the term "Diffusion!", is turning the royal talon jet into a pervaporation chamber/device. Which uses (partial)pressure(s) and a special membrane to distill a mixture into what you want to isolate, separate or remove. Essentially they siphon off the oxygen carrying molecules around Namor so he has nothing to respire and painfully "chokes" to death. (Or unconsciousness, depending)
I do love a woman with some applied sciences knowhow
Edit: It dawned on me that it's a little messed up for Shuri's master plan is to put Namor in a high tech gas chamber💀
Then the only question is, wouldn't be instantly start feeling better after the jet crashed?
@@kongwubba81 not until he touches water. If he touched a drop of water HE BACK!
@@kongwubba81 kinda like orcas and dolphins in a sense sure they breath actual air but still need to be in the water to survive. Sure Namor can be out of water without a respirator, but he was born for the sea at the end
The gas chamber fits with Shuri trying to commit genocide…
@@mostmost1 It does not sit well with me that after the jet crashed, he was still fast enough to tackle Shuri twice instead of jumping to the nearest water (which is not really far). Maybe he underestimated Shuri and didn't think she could drag the fight until he felt tired.
It’s this type of video that really showcases Ryan’s talents and separates him from the pack, also his dad jokes are hilarious, a pro at his best!!!!
The version of the heart shape herb she synthesized as a combination of the other two, it’s potentially much stronger, she is potentially much stronger.
Potentially 👍🏾
Throughout history people of royal blood had teachers of martial art's, weapons training, and different ways of learning how to fight at their disposal. I'm sure Shuri was trained thoroughly in different martial arts.
You actually see this in this movie. When Ramonda and Shuri go on their camping trip to burn the mourning clothes, they take spears with them to defend themselves from any angry wildlife, and when Namor appears they both go into a very similar guard stance as the one the Dora Milaje use. If you'd shown me a depowered Shuri easily beating M'Baku at the end I'd call foul, but Shuri being a badass whilst hopped up on purple herb and equipped with her very own custom-designed battle-suit makes perfect sense.
shuri never thought anyone in unarmed combat... she shot either a vibranium weapon out of her hands or shot weapons out of a plane or spaceship.
How can u not know this ................ wtf
true shuri can fight just didnt have powers
@@explicitmoviesvideohighlig4831 how do you know that she didn't train with the Dora. They would not have taken it easy on her
Coming to America
Not to sound morbid, but I’m glad they didn’t downplay Chadwick passing of some “unknown illness” since it seemed he didn’t go too public with it in the first place (they directly mourned on film) I think that approach was incredibly respectful. Art respects life in this case.
Something I also noticed was that Namor mentioned that he "Didn't want to move the city again" when talking to his advisor. Could this mean that the first city was Atlantis?
Atlantis Mythology predates Namor by 2,000 years.
The writer said he decided to go with Mayan background instead of Atlantis because of DC Aquaman release being around the same time.
@@dnonamuso1 perhaps he found the technology of old Atlantis? Considering Greek Gods are part of the MCU, Atlantis could have been a previous domain ruled by Poseidon before being destroyed by - insert MCU threat -, now a ruin used to create Talokan combined with the found vibranium
He was talking about how they had to leave their city on land and live in the water. That's when they left the city.
@@dnonamuso1 Atlantis would have been 12,000 years ago because according to Plato it was 9,000 years before Plato was born.
Maybe it’s just me, but I very clearly understood all the plot points of the movie, even the plot holes. I have trouble dealing with people that can’t figure out stuff that’s literally smacking them in the face.
People often talk about this as one of the justifications for why movie sucks
In reality, explaining all of these ad nauseam would just bloat the film more than it already is
People don't actually care about plot nearly as much as they claim
Plot however is also the first thing on the chopping block when someone doesn't like a movie
Movies like Nolan's Dark Knight are riddled with a ludicrous amount of plot holes, conveniences and stuff
Yet, people don't care because the performance and the characters enchants the soul
I was looking for your comment! People don’t have listening comprehension and/or higher order thinking skills like they used to. The RiRi questions were the only things I could see other people having issues with. Still a stretch. Not a perfect movie but I’d say my favorite from this phase and one of the best in the MCU overall.
@@kan-di-s Yeah. I thought the movie was great, especially with all they had to deal with in the wake of their dear friend Chadwick Bosemans passing, people don’t understand that the people that make the movies are human too and have human emotion under pressure. They delivered. They had to rewrite the entire script and figure out how to keep Namor in the film and who would be the next Black Panther. It wasn’t so cut and dry at first, they were actually going to bring Killmonger back in a redemption arc, but ultimately kept him as Shuri’s ancestral plane ancestor which I thought was brilliant. Shuri is more ruthless than T’challa and understandably so and it was great. I was a little disappointed with the Ironheart stuff but understood that this was just an introduction to her as she will have her own Disney+ series, and those series are almost as good as the movies.
Right! People are just nitpicking the movie for clicks. The movie was very straight forward. Nothing ambiguous or confusing about it.
@@kan-di-s Right! I think people are getting dumber and lazier due to relying on technology and the internet to do some of the brain work.
really liking how the Talokans are primarily fish-based while Namor is an amphibian-based
And mutant based
Yeah Namor explained all that they were changed and he was actually born that way
That one talokan that died from the gunshot wound could of been saved, but naymor used her as a scapegoat/reason to wage war with wakanda.
@Devin K. right!
@@blackwhitegrey001 Good point
I think Ramonda only knew and met the young T'Challa when she visited Nakia to get her help. Ramonda didn't know why Nakia disappeared for 6 years and why she didn't attend the funeral (purely based on what I remembered), and that's probably when Nakia revealed the boy to Ramonda.
Agreed! She met him in Haiti. Because she didn't act as if she knew him when he her to his mother
No. When Ramonda took Shuri to burn the funeral clothing she said “I have to tell you something about your brother….” And then Namor interrupted them. So Ramonda knew about prince T’challa long before she went to recruit Nakia.
@@F76CC maybe.. 🤷🏾♂️ is that confirmed? You're probably right because he grab her hand and walked with her to see his mom
@@jnicophene She’s right. I saw the movie twice
@@F76CC Right BUT that doesn't mean that she actually met the young boy. She was told but she never met him that's why she didn't know who he was when she talked to him in Haiti.
I think one of the biggest plot-holes (and one that's not talked about enough) is how and why the water people attacked Shuri and the general when they were going to retrieve Riri. There's just so much wrong with that scene in the sense of: did it not once occur to the fish people that attacking a high ranking military official and the PRINCESS of the nation they're trying to befriend was gonna look really bad for their 'peaceful alliance?' Or the fact that it could've literally been anyone in that iron man suit and they were about to kill a random person? Or how the hell they knew the EXACT bridge they'd be on to throw the harpoon? She was FLYING, it's not they can detect where she's flying on a radar, what if she had flown over a different bridge? Or continued flying over land? And again, they didn't know who Riri was, so what if it was just one of the many, many, geniuses in the MCU with access to Stark tech? It could've been Falcon and they would've killed an Avenger and sparked another war with the frickin Avengers.
It just doesn't make any sense, especially since Namor literally told them to take the "scientist" not "girl" to Wakanda and blow into the magic sea conch from Spongebob. They were in the act of doing that and they were attacked by his forces and almost killed, so it's pretty clear he never wanted peace with the Wakandans, he wanted control, he wanted them to submit to him and see him as a more powerful threat. His "peace offering" was literally "join me or die by me." Not much of a peace offering if you ask me. He plans to manipulate and gaslight them essentially. And honestly, the guy's pretty unreasonable and hypocritical. He shows Shuri the beauty of his world and "innocence" but doesn't even blink when he destroys the beauty of other worlds, so again, gaslighting. Can't wait to see him get his ass kicked by everyone in the next movie tbh.
Yes to all of that.
Like Namor knew it was a person on land that is smart, which is why they said scientist.
But how the heck did they find them?
I know there are a lot of conflicting beliefs on the introduction of T’challa, but has anyone thought of how exciting it will be to have a T’challa - Storm romance realized on screen? It wasn’t possible with Chadwick’s BP but definitely possible now.
Yes!! Honestly, I immediately thought of this! I really hope we see this romance on the big screen
And in the comics I believe T'challa had a western education. Really young T'challa here could be our more comic book accurate Black Panther. Marvel found a way to have their cake and eat it to.
I was hoping Storm and The Meteorologist
Oh yeah especially since not really gonna get the X-Men we know for like 2 or 3 more phases! It would be interesting to see these characters we’re already familiar with start off from a younger age instead of hoping straight into the middle of their lives like the OG movies.
nope
I can imagine King T'Chaka having the same funeral as T'Challa in the first Black Panther movie.
To double down on the “How Can Shuri fight so well now” answer, the herb gives her increased strength, agility and reflexes. She can see punches and react. She can run faster and jump higher than before. We’d all look like kung fu masters if we had the same upgrades.
Some of the questions being asked where actually examples of weaponized incompetence. Folks didn’t really care about the answer, they just cared about making the film look bad. Thanks either way though. You are really good at responding and thinking things through.
Yes you hit it spot on. I'm really glad he was able to address those "questions" as well as he did. So many people come in wanting to hate something based on their politics. It's a really disturbing "fan" trend these days.
Right. Most of the reasons people are trashing this movie are addressed in this video which are very minimal at best. It’s like some people didn’t even watch or pay attention to the movie and needs to be spoon fed all the answers. Just seems like people are hating it because it’s a popular trend or going into the movie with the intent of bashing it because of too much “diversity” aka too many minorities/women even tho Wakanda takes place in Africa and the women characters were already established in the 1st film. The film payed respect to Chadwick’s contributions to the MCU and show how T’Challa’s death affected the characters of Wakanda instead of just recasting him right away and ignoring the elephant in the room. The actors did a great job conveying emotions, Shuri had great character development dealing with despair and anger with her family dying and wasn’t portrayed as perfect or talking down on male counterparts, wasn’t a bunch of political or social commentary. It built upon concepts that were established in the 1st film. I really don’t know what else people wanted from this movie especially given the sudden death of movie’s lead character. It was good self contained story.
Exactly
One of the lamest ones was how Namor and the others were able to wear feathers on their headdresses under water. They were not feathers, they were fins. For instance, Namora wore the fins from Lionfish on her head.
Actually, the recast T'challa hashtag means people wanted desperately to see one of the smartest and dangerous people in the Marvel Universe. He got one movie then he's gone. Terrence Howard was replaced with Don Cheeto, Edward Norton was replaced with Mark Ruffalo. Remember General Ross from the Incredible Hulk and Civil War and Avengers well that actor recently died and he's getting replaced with Harrison Ford. But this is just *wEapOnIZeD IncOmPEtEnCe*
Seems like part of the reason that T'Challa the Younger was sent to live away in Haiti was that his father knew that he would die before his son was old enough to take the throne. He probably knew he was sick before he was blipped.
You could feel the frustrations just emanating off Ryan with some of these questions. ;)
You and erick voss are the best at breaking down movies and figuring out the plot to the movie or at least have some real close theories 🙏🏽
I love you 🔥
Yeah other breakdowns aren’t as entertaining or good as theirs
@@woahtf8567 you’re high!
And tommy annoys the hell out of me over there in the new rockstar channel
He always have to have a stupid little joke
LOL, if you have to "figuring out the plot to the movie" then the movie was terrible
@@firstname4337 no dufus I meant they give their best guesses to what they think the movie plot will be about in future films and they find all the Easter eggs and break down every scene
@@firstname4337 make a better one then
I actually believe Romanda found out about T’Challa Jr. when she visited Nakia in Haiti in *this* movie. I don’t think she knew prior. And she died before she got the chance to tell Shuri because Namor attacked immediately when they got back.
That’s what I thought too. She seems cold when she first gets to Haiti and I thought this was because to her Nakia went away years ago and didn’t even bother to return for T’Challa’s funeral. Learning she did it to keep her son safe after Romanda has lost her son she understands her actions.
Namor also needs to be near H20 due to a unique aspect of his hybrid nature. It was theorized that Namor is vulnerable to oxygen imbalances in his blood that trigger manic-depressive mood swings; he can prevent imbalances by regular immersion in water.
Also Shuri took a synthetic strand of the same herb as Namor which means she may be stronger and quicker than T'Challa who took the Heart herb from Wakanda.
The herb only exists in Wakanda. That has been established since Wakanda was created. Anything else is bad writing.
@@winterds1 it wasn't the same heart shaped herb. it was another plant affected by another vibranium meteor that fell in the ocean. That's not bad writing, thats a retcon.
@@JUSLOFI That retcon is straight up BS. If Stan Lee and Jack Kirby didn't write it, it never happened. Period.
@@winterds1 Stan Lee and Jack Kirby didn't create Namor. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby didn't invent the Dora Milaje. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby didn't create Shuri. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby didn't create Queen Ramonda. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby didn't create Killmonger. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby didn't create Everett Ross. Miss me with that bullshit. YOU DONT KNOW COMICS.
@@JUSLOFI They did create Black Panther and Wakanda. So you can act like an adult and attempt to have an adult conversation. Otherwise, don't speak to me.
Killmonger cameo was awesome.
Honestly it was a brilliant solution too, because if she did find herself with her ancestors, she would have seen her brother. But it also ties into the emotional beats of the movie. Brilliant idea!
Seemed lame to me
@@MrTeamFoolish I'm very interested in finding out why you think it was lame????
@@MrTeamFoolish they obviously weren’t going to show Chadwick that woulda been distasteful kinda like the CGI they did for Paul walker, it worked for them because they used his actual brother. I initially thought it was her mother when they showed the back of the throne. It looked like her headdress but it was actually Killmonger’s dreads. Also hair grows in the after life ? That’s my main takeaway haha
@Inside Jah Because its Killmonger. If I remember there was very little interaction between the two in the first place. Remove his scene and the movie plays out the same. His character or appearance doesn't add anything to the movie. It just bloats it trying to add another character to the mix.
I like that they've delved into the ocean because even in 'real life' the ocean has barely been explored. It's actually a perfect way to introduce a new "species" of humans/mutants not from space.
Plus the earth is 70% ocean that fact alone is pretty crazy. We have a huge planet that hasn’t even been explored. Imagine how big Namors population could actually be if they spread out..
They say that we know more about the surface of Mars than we know about the depths of our oceans. 90-something percent of our oceans still remains unexplored
@@Collect2Disconnect yep that's why he keeps says you literally have no chance against my army so many times.
Wakanda is finite due to their nations size Namor has control of the only thing that keeps humans alive in water, every creature of the sea(even the ones we don't know about), and soldiers who don't question him of great strength AND the most flexible and powerful substance on earth 🤣 he's OP af
4:10 also, I’m pretty sure when you get the strength of the black Panther, you gain the knowledge and wisdom of all previous panthers as well. That could explain her new innate combat abilities
I loved the movie. It was a truly touching tribute to Chadwick, and a great portrayal of how to deal with grief. There were some slight pacing issues but hey there was a lot to cram into this film. 8/10 can't wait to rewatch it.
spot on!
Thought there could have been more movie without the two silent tributes to Chadwick. He was just an actor playing a character in a movie not the the other way around. I would feel the same if Chris Evans or Westley Snipes dropped dead.
@@kybble pos
😂 I’m sure you liked she hulk too
@@Truegrade FYI no I did not like she hulk. I have see better cinematography in the original mortal combat video game. Real characters and that type of CGI does not mix well at all. It made me dizzy to watch half the time it looked like she was tilted or walking in the wrong perspective to the scene she was in.
I made the she hulk character seem like a $2 prostitute looking for anything with a peg between its legs to smash.
This coming from Disney wow. What happen to all Disney's equality and woman rights. I'm just surprised they didn't bring up abortion or some other controversial narrative.
The absolute 1 think I like about she hulk was the actor was absolutely unknown to me. I also hated her 4th wall breaks and the actual story was extremely weak.
As I said before this is nothing but Disney ruining 40 years of Marvel history and Marvel letting them do it.
Disney would never destroy the history of mickey mouse or any other Disney characters like they are doing to all the Marvel characters.
Since you asked.
The only and the Best Marvel character movie to date was BLADE the first one.
I would argue that the Killmonger civil war did have lasting consequences, and it was likely Okoye (who I'm assuming is a member because of her fantastic rhino-taming skills) played a role in piecing together the remnants of the border tribe after the dust had settled following Killmonger's defeat. Possibly Bucky had a role in reorganizing the tribe or rooting out dissenters upset with being on the losing end of the scuffle. The Jabari were also offered a seat at the tribal council which is a pretty significant political shake-up considering Wakandan history. M'Baku becoming king would be the Jabariland version of Obama becoming the first black U.S. president. W'Kabi is in jail. He might return.
Daniel Kaluuya was filming NOPE
@@skipharris he still was in jail. She specified you could VISIT him meaning he’s not home every day so he’s in jail in wakanda for his war crimes.
In the 10+ years I've been on CZcams I've only left comments twice. Both times have been in the last couple of days in response to your spot on analysis of BP2WF.
Other than the weird way you provide Riri (RhuiRe vs Ree Ree) you nailed it when breaking down the arguments of people who just want to feel superior to anyone.
And because of your reply at 9:35 - I have a lot of respect for you man.
The time dilation bit at the end is wrong FYI, there is no place you can go where time is going to pass faster by any significant amount. Earth's gravity, and any other planet's, is low enough to basically be the same as empty space when considering time dilation unless you're trying to calibrate an atomic clock or something else precise. In terms of aging a person, I don't think an extra second older per decade would be noticeable...
Hahaha! Thanks for answering my question on how Shuri learned how to fight. I thought you were going to say she learned from my mom. 😂
I need an explanation for how Val (or one of her minions) could have gotten to bridge fight scene, found Shuri’s beads, *known how to bug them* and then left them there for Ross to find.
And why didn't the Wakandans know the beads were bugged?
They put a small microphone on them. They have nano tech for crying out loud.
Wakanda tech seems a bit advanced for a such a simple answer though.
How could they miss the beads would have been a bigger issue. The police were chasing the princess how could they not make it before Ross. Ross wasn't tracking the Wakandans. The beads were in Ross possession not in wakanda how could they scan it for bugs?
The important part was how they would have known how to bug something as advanced as Wakandan tech like that.
Thank you thank you for making this video. I’ve seen so many people nitpicking and hating on this movie over stuff that was explained in the movie or things that they didn’t care enough to understand
Honestly you make amazing videos and this video is amazing. So many people just complain on things they don’t know. Thanks for clearing so much up most important thank you for acknowledging namor new pronunciation and recognizing his roots in the movie!!! Much respect!!!
Tell me about it I spent over 3 hours straight responding to all these peoples comments. I actually answered almost all of these questions myself that he showed in the video lol. He even gave me credit for one of the answers
Also small details u missed but Namor said his mom told him stories of wakanda growing up … it was what he said after saying how good the air was
I think that’s why he knows about them but didn’t believe the stories but now he needed them so he had to see for himself
Not quite. He describes his mother's stories about a place _like_ Wakanda, where people are protected and don't need to change. It would have been literally impossible for her, in the Sixteenth century, to know that a landlocked isolationist country on the other side of the planet even existed, let alone know what it was like there. Far more likely, she _longed_ for such a place to exist, due to her sorrow from having left her home and having to become something other than human to flee torture and colonization. And so, she made up "stories" about a place like that, and Namor then likened those tales to what he saw in, and knew about, Wakanda.
Yep kilmonger told tchalla how his dad explained wakanda also
@@sorcarto Yewh I was thinking it was like a fable passed down by the years and then coming to light to the world showed him it actually real
Probably their god’s talking to each other when they vibranium meteorites first hit. Who knows who or how those were sent in the first place. Kinda like if Superman landed in Russia and became a tyrant, instead of Kansas. What if the gods chose the areas where to land the meteors and when they finally approached their worshipers they told them different stories.
To go further with the blue skin explanation: the could no longer oxygenate themselves on land, so their skin looked blue on land because they could draw oxygen from their surroundings. That necessitated the use of those water masks to be able to “breathe” on land. Kind of like Kang’s mask, it probably made their mouths look blue too, but they were probably normal colored under it.
The masks were to push water to their gills. Namor was the only one with skin breathing because he was special. And they looked blue on land and 'normal' in water do to how light filtered in the water.
Yes this was explained in the first 5 min of the movie when they took the ocean herb 🌊 🌿
@@japhrellI had that thought too, but they return back to full skin tone underwater. That’s not light filtering…
People forget that Shuri, on becoming a Black Panther, also has all the skills and wisdom of previous Black Panthers. That explains her fighting and tactical skills.
They're a warrior race and the royal family are trained from birth in a variety of martial arts. The herb enhances those skills. Thats it. 🤷♂️
@@LordProng123 That too lol. But also what I mentioned is true lol.
@@bngbox The Ancestral Plain only enables one to commune with their departed ancestors. And usually the one who appears to the person is dictated by their temperament and outlook on life. Which is why Shuri saw Killmonger - she was angry, vengeful and did not see a reason for tradition.
It doesn't give you powers or abilities.
However if you have any reference you can point to that says otherwise I'm happy to read it.
@@LordProng123 If you look on the Marvel Database online (Marvel Fandom), T’Challa’s powers and abilities are clearly laid out. You can also watch the Variant channel on CZcams about Black Panther which reiterates those abilities. He has a lot of powers granted by not only Bast but also the previous Black Panthers, including the abilities to draw on previous wisdom and some of their powers and abilities. I know this is specifically T’Challa, but I’m assuming Shuri and other Panthers who consume the heart shaped herb and become the chosen Panther can draw upon a bunch of those abilities as well.
Ryan, thank for answering these questions so well!! Love your channel (and Doug❤)🙌🏽
I don't know if you'll see this but I just have to say that I love Doug and I love how your seamlessly incorporate the sponsored segments into the video! It's all so fun
Shuri was undoubtedly amazing I always loved her since we've first seen her , I think the actor they chose to play her definitely deserves her flowers.
This guy won’t praise her because she won’t get the vaccine. He’s liberal af and pushes his politics on this channel.
David's comments plus Ryan's comments on David's comments equals pure genius comedy GOLD ... forever
I'm hooked up on the idea that William Jackson Harper will play an older T'Challa Jr in Quantumania
OMG thank you! It can become exhausting to explain all the "plot holes" in movies. Like please pay attention to the movies! Most of the "plot holes" mentioned are either explained or showcased in subtle ways.
I truly appreciate sassy Ryan in this video lol.
Nicely put, I can't see myself ever seeing it.....cheers.
There is NO ONE who could have filled Chadwick Boseman’s shoes! Recasting would have been a horrible idea, because no matter who they cast, we would just say “not as good as Chadwick!”
Yes, you're right, but don't forget Michael b Jordan, he was fantastic as killmonger, he would of have been the next black panther. But whatever now the world wants girls only movies like the Ghostbusters one, oh and the ocean's eleven one. But whatever.
@@omarchelo117 GIRLS want to see movies with GIRLS in them, thanks. How many DUDE movies have been produced in human history with damsels in distress now? Thanks.
@@omarchelo117 we want killmonger as killmonger not as Tchala. You know damn well you didn't see that Ghostbusters. We had 40 years of all male Ghostbusters and not one woman complained so why you bitchin about one movie?
@@omarchelo117 ummm Killlmonger died... remember- he couldn't be the next BP also it's not a "girl" movie- they had a bunch of male characters including M'Baku who becomes king of Wakanda and Namor who is the primary villain- and they obviously set up a future T'Challa BP- but I guess for some people having more than one female character makes it a "girl" movie smh
@@omarchelo117 9:31
Amazing movie!!! Can't wait to see Namor again in the MCU
Dear ScreenCrush,
Thank you for your hard work and videos. I find myself enjoying your videos about MCU more than I enjoy phase 4 and 5.
Thanks for filling the void in the midst of the drop of quality of MCU post endgame.
It's more fun watching your videos than the actual movies and Disney DLC.
I look forward to your next videos about the revised direction of phase 5 & 6 of the MCU.
Have a good one ScreenCrush team.
You did an amazing job with your responses especially to some of the really dumb questions.
Namor needs a solo movie in phase 6 after black panther wakanda forever loved his performance .
He does,finally a well done replication of a character.He is a great anti-hero.
Namor : BRING ME SUSAN STORM
He actually might we just don’t know yet.
Also we don’t know about their technology level yet but I would think it’s high with the water balls things … it’s one of the biggest thing I’ve been waiting them to talk about in a Namor show or movie
He created a artificial sun to light his city. There’s probably a lot of technology they didn’t show.
@@Collect2Disconnect that’s what I’m saying we have a lot more of them to see
…yet they fight with spears. So not very high then.
@@vaporwave4880 like this point would be good if all the other advanced civilizations weren’t using swords , clubs , and other primitive weapons
@@azziahrussell38 which makes me wonder why American military is meant to be inferior to Wakanda. It’s just women with spears hanging off a boat on a rope.
Biggest plothole is how Shuri and Riri somehow are so sure that Namor’s weakness is that he needs water. Namor just dived in to avoid fire it seems like. It just seems way too convenient that they’re so sure that it’s the way to beat him
High Five and sound effect were great . Great Review .
The heart shaped herb gives you access to all the past knowledge and skills of other black panthers that’s how she learned how to fight so quickly
But its not the exact same herb the others took
But it doesn't give you knowledge to cure an "illness" that an enhanced individual has. Righttttttt...
If she didn’t know how to fight, she wouldn’t have been at the final battle in end game.
A lot of this is common sense.
I guess. Why do combat training at all then?
She is never shown training hand to hand combat , she relies on weapons and tec to fight, that is a different way of fighting
My theory is that since in the first movie T'Chaka said a bomb at the border was enough for Klaue to escape Wakanda the people of Talocan could have done so with the water bomb and that would be how they entered Wakanda with the whales
Dude you’re hilarious… I love your channel… it’s the only CZcams content I watch ❤
These are great explanations.
there was a shot in the movie of a Talokan popping up out of the water in front of the barrier. I think it was one of the sirens who sang that hypnosis song, seems easy for them to mimic the same sound to open the barrier. I don’t think they snuck through without doing that, Wakanda would be smart enough to plug any holes in their defences to make sure people can’t sneak through
When I saw Val I was genuinely shocked, didn't know she was gonna be in here
Good point about not being able to reverse engineer the vibarnium detector. Similar to Iron Man 1 when Obediah couldn't reverse engineer Tony's first suit that he built in a cave with a box of scraps.
Yeah it's like us knowing how phone calls work but like no can build a phone from scratch
I really do love this channel.
After watching this and your other video on Wakanda Forever I have instantly become a fan of your channel. I especially love it when you say to the sock puppet after he ask “Why are there so many women in this movie?” “These are characters that have been built up over several movies that have real emotional stakes and your first thought is, Where are the boys?” 🤣🤣🤣
The only plot hole I saw in the movie was the fact that Namor said he wanted his kingdom to remain secluded from the surface world. Yet as he met Shuri which was presumably the first person to see his underwater kingdom, he had an oxygen suit ready to take her there. His initial plan was to kill RiRi so there no way he could’ve had the suit made for Shuri as he would’nt have been expecting her to make a request to be brought to him. Why was there a suit already constructed if he wanted to keep outsiders out?
The movie was amazing. And this hole did not impact the plot too much for me. Just something I noticed and chuckled at a bit.
That suit was confiscated from the American force on the drilling platform.
@@GdnationNY Just watched it again last night. You’re right. It was the same type of suit from earlier in the movie.
this was a refreshing video to watch, and actually made me feel happy and enjoyable inside. it's like i'm actually leaving this video, and am enriched by it and want to come back for more. it's quite a contrast to a lot of the sludge popping up on youtube lately, where you can just feel brain cells sliding out into oblivion, never to return. i had given up hope on finding thoughtful commentary as opposed to just reactionary. thanks for the quality content. 👍🏽☺️⭐💝🧠
brave video. much respect, as always. ❤
How did Shuri completely heal from impalement and removal of impaled object and then return to full super strength in 5 seconds???
She’s black panther, she has health regen 🤦🏼♂️
The Talokan died because it was a sonic weapon that she was shot with. As explained in the first Black Panther, vibranium's weakness is a specific frequency of sound; remember the fight with Kill Monger in the mines. This movie explained that the Talokans have Vibranium infused in their DNA. That's why she didn't heal from the sonic gun shot to the lung.
They dont have vibranium in the their DNA. They have a herb that was grown on vibranium-rich soil in their DNA. Same as the herb the Black Panther consumes. Though not the EXACT same.
Great video. Thx
That’s not how time dilation works at all lol. It’s all about relative velocities not just gravity. On that note though, they are building up kang who is THE time traveling villain of marvel. Anything that requires time or is constrained by time is entirely possible as time is no longer a constraint when talking about the upcoming avengers films
I'm convinced that Vibranium weapons can't kill Talokans and since Shuri drank the herb that came from there, she was able to get impaled with Vibranium and not bleed.
I might have imagined it, but I'm pretty sure that you could see the suit filling back in after she pulled herself off of the spear. I would assume that she would program some nanites to auto wound heal in the event her suit is breached.
*“Thou* art *a* demon. *Son* of *Satan.* El *Niño* Sin *Amor.* The *Boy* Without *Love,* NAmor.”
…and no one calls him that, yet instead of honoring his mother with the name she gave him, he goes by the name one guy called him 500 years ago. Dumb, dumb movie.
@@dannyhodorowski5847 He himself says it's the name _he_ picked for _himself._ He deliberately gives both names to Shuri and Ramonda when he first meets them, but specifies that _his people_ call him K'uk'ulkan. Shuri and Ramonda are not his people and they have nothing else to call him.
@@sorcarto No. One person called him that, with that pronunciation 500 years ago. All others say Nay-More. They just shoehorned it in. He was very much a loved child as well.
@@dannyhodorowski5847 He said "My Enemies" call me that. Safe to bet Namor had more than 1 interaction with the Conquistador's .. he was probably nightmarish demon of legend to them. We saw the 1st time he saw them and was given the name - i Guarantee you they saw that kid Many times, after that.. so much that his enemies call him by that name.
@@lights4bre890 You guarantee it? Well, too bad it wasn’t shown on screen, you know, the only thing that matters.
Nicely done/tolerated!
The question of Shuri being a fighter. She was trained with the Dora Milaje. Her mom was Dora Milaje like seriously 😒.
I was wondering few things not answered in this video.
First, I'm not 100% sure if I remember correctly, but it seemed like the Talokan had rooms with air pockets. I think that Namor was in one at his last scene speaking with the other talokan person about the yealding. Also I think that Namor and Shuri were in air pocket room inside Talokan at one point. And yea, I know that the prison where they held Shuri and Riri was not in Talokan, I'm not talking about that.
But it just seems very challenging to even keep that kind of room in underwater city. The structures would be under massive pressure and they would have to be watertight. They would need special equipment to even be able to breathe in those rooms, so why keep them at all?
Second, the sound gun under the Wakandan ship at the end. Like, it hurt even Namor from miles away, but then one of them just swam right next to it and broke it. How?
WHY SO MANY TECHNICAL TECH QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IN BLACK PANTHER AND NOT THE SAME ENERGY FOR THOR MOVIES.. LOL AND NONE OF THE QUESTIONS COME FROM BLACK PEOPLE. ITS A COMIC BOOK MOVIE.
There was the deep-sea city and there was a shallower area with air-pocket rooms.
@@420EnochAlien I think people just accept thor movies have been bad from the jump hahaha Black Panther has been very well received even in a geek community always looking to hate
Shuri didn’t “fight” thanos. She was there. In arm cannons.
To be fair
We cannot really make any statements that wouldn't be unfair to Shuri
When Tchalla debuted in Civil War, it wasn't like we were specifically told that he was trained or some thing
We knew that he's the king of wakanda so obviously he's Black Panther
That's about as much justification as is required
To ask something like, why is Shuri good would be to assume that she needs some extra justification for why she's good instead of the usual one of "ig she was trained"
In fact, the opposite also seems to be the case because we just assumed that Shuri was the smart one even though she was taught by Tchalla who simply chooses to be the king and Black Panther instead of leading R&D
Both are incredibly talented in combat and the sciences
Additionally, Wakandans also have a culture of female warriors as shown bY Doramilaje
She literally did. She was one of the three women who blasted Thanos flat on his back and made him roll over and over like a tumbleweed when he tried to get in Captain Marvel's way. Even if it was just for a few seconds and as part of a team, she absolutely qualifies as "having fought him"--and merely surviving long enough to _get_ to that point in a battle against all of Thanos's forces qualifies even more.
Steve just did basic training in the army.. wait..did he even pass?. Shuri got WAY more combat training in her life pre- Panther than Steve got pre- serum. And then actual battlefield experience with Killmonger, the war in Wakanda, The Invasion by Thanos and arriving thru the portal at Avengers HQ to help face the army of Thanos.
She had no increased physical abilities at that point. It would have been insane for her, with a normal human's strength, to physically attack Thanos. Doesn't mean she doesn't have the skills. Hand cannons in that situation made the most sense.
GREAT as always!
You explained all this perfectly
So one thing I didn’t see addressed, the blip erased half of all living beings. Shouldn’t that have included Namor’s people too? And with half his people gone (with how protective he is over his people seeing his reaction to the woman Nakia killed rescuing Shuri), he would have been looking for an explanation….which he would have gotten it very quick going to the surface and getting information. Also they should have returned when everyone else returned for End Game, correct?
He could’ve blipped
So what would he do?
"Hey Avengers, I'm Namor, ruler of a super secret underwater kingdom, and I'm here to help you guys with whatever you want to do to solve this 'blip' thingy! Just don't tell anyone I was here, I trust you guys deeply!"
Nope, he would just find out about it secretly and return to Talokan.
Was thinking the same thing. Even if he did blip too, wouldn’t the people who didn’t tell him what happened when he returned? I hope this gets an actual answer.
@@CarlosGuzman-yz9ut And he would have found out about the battle that took place, a few hours after he was returned, in upstate NY, hundreds of miles away from the ocean?
Dougs jacket 😅
Thee best. He's such a boss.
Maybe the Talokans could bypass the shield underwater because they also have a vibranium signature and previously it was thought only Wakandans had this so maybe that's how they got in? That's what I was thinking
"you don't have ceremonial face paint unless you've trained to fight".
This is why I love SC :)
What did you think of the movie?
I wish they cut a half hour off. Iron Heart and Val plot felt unnecessary but still a great movie, 8.5/10
6.5 out of 10.
Dragged a bit in the middle, but overall it was pretty good. 8/10.
thank you for following the spanish pronounciation of namor. the trope of el niño sin amor is a cruel taunt children use on each other. and kukulkan appropiating it, was an empowering move
Iron Heart shouldve only been mentioned if they wanted to set her up. I really wanted them to show Atlantis and the underwater people a lot more. But I knew they just stick to same old boring Wakanda. the atlanteans were my favorite part of the movie. I really wanted them to make Killmonger the new black panther. Shuri doesnt hold the mantle too well. And the movie is veryyyy predictable just like every other MCU movie. If iron heart wasnt in the movie then it would get 1 rating higher. And if Namor was actually interesting and strong. I think Marvel should just cut down on cgi all together. its terrible. The acting brings you into the movie tho. Just what Im pointing out. 7/10
They actually said that Raymonda was “reinstated” as ruler of Wakanda, so I do think they addressed that she was ruling during the blip by implication.
Plot hole: Doug is seen giving high fives in his work outfit, despite being in the very cute doggy coat for the remainder of the video.
Doug: I'm going to need you to get aaaaalllll the way of my back on this!!!
Such a good video.
There's another interpretation of the exchange between Nakia/Queen about her absence from the funeral - the Queen doesn't actually say she's upset that she wasn't there for it, she says "You were missed.". This could really mean 'people noticed you weren't there, you better have a story straight about why', which Nakia then gives the Queen (with Zero pushback) and we see play out later in an otherwise completely unnecessary scene with Nakia/Okoye.
Did half the people at Talocan get blipped? I don’t remember them talking about that in the movie, even though Thanos was brought up. Did Namor know about Thanos?
Given his snap effected all sentient life in the Universe, yes they would have been snapped.
They must have but since they brought everyone back , the blip isn’t that useful to mention anymore?. I also wonder what his reaction was like but it wouldn’t contribute to the current plot. I wish they did bring it up like it should’ve been a drawing on his wall or something.
Also, Tiamuts ass causing a disturbance to the sea let alone the planet, but you would think for sea faring people who have an intimate connection with the sea and the whales around the world?
NAKIA looked fine AF in her fight suit!! Lupita Nyong'O is gorgeous!!!!
Man these little convos/questions based on past events are what we need to be asked as it makes the movie more realistic because surely Namor and whoever else would have been existing
Thank you
I really like the ka-meh-ha-mah-ha hand salute the Talakon’ex used as there sign it’s perfect! And I love it
I am so glad I subscribed to your channel. You really know your stuff. Looking forward to your breakdown of the 3rd Ant-Man movie
Hi Ryan, can you explain the continuity errors with Doug? Doug is wearing the black and red jacket, but during the hi fives Doug is just wearing a blue shirt. 😆 Love the content. Take care
I want to see how many hi five clips he has saved with Doug 🤣🤣🤣
Loved the movie, and another great breakdown! Love your stuff. As far as the feathers the Talokani sport, I believe they are from an underwater animal, probably a the spines of a lionfish I would think
The feathers on Namora's costume definitely look like lionfish spines/fins
@@carlbonara602 yeah. This was confirmed by the costume designer.
I absolutely respect the commitment to the bit
Thanks Ryan!
The choice of not recasting Chadwick was a good decision to make. Watching this film made me realise I didn't properly processed Chadwick's death. When Shuri reflected on the memories of T'Challa, I cried.
Had they recasted the role, it would be a slap on the face. T'Challa can be played by anyone, but you can't replace the icon that Chadwick brought to that role. That needed to be honoured.
Are there any plot holes we missed?
Yes. They should've recasted T'Challa.
@@SpammytheHedgehog that is not a plot hole.
@@SpammytheHedgehog They also mentioned this in the video, so there's no point in bringing that up as something they missed.
Wait this movie has a plot ? 😲
@@SpammytheHedgehog he is soft recasted. T'Challa 2.0 is coming
I just came from seeing the movie with my brother and his fiance and we enjoyed it from start to finish. What a great movie it was as well as a heartfelt tribute to Chadwick Boseman. Now we're looking forward to seeing how things go with Phase 5 of Marvel.
Great video!
love the remixed Namor-- the character is now way more itneresting. nothing has been lost just a lot gained. i -loved- this movie.
Same I find it so funny namor came out first in the comics and aquaman was copied. Both still probably based on Poseidon myths but the fact that Aquaman came out first in life action marvel was like we’re gonna be the bigger person and not copy the movie that copied our character in the comics 😂
I think of Shuri becoming Black Panther being similar to Peter becoming Spider-Man. Being bitten by a radioactive spider and taking the heart shape herb give them both new super abilities. One being extraordinary combat abilities.
Shuri being able to fight well isn’t a plot hole or even a contrivance. Just because she’s a woman of science doesn’t mean she didn’t learn how to combat. She’s the princess of Wakanda. Of course she knows how to fight. And fight WELL.