Was Whiskey Really Better Back in the Day? Vintage Vs Modern Showdown
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
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In this video, we compare 5 bourbons with their vintage counterparts.
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Chapters:
00:00 Old Forester 86 Proof
03:18 Geologie
05:04 Old Forester Bonded
07:55 Old Grand-Dad Bonded
10:34 Old Fitzgerald
12:28 Rebel Yell
Host/Executive Producer - TJ Gamble
Producer - Alex Srednoselac
Channel Manager - Will Gamble
Editor - Marc McClure
All claims made here about alcohol, whether in this video, in this description, or on our channel, are intended only for those of the legal drinking age.
#whiskeytube #bourbon #whiskytube
Head to geolog.ie/BREWZLE70 or scan the QR code on the screen and use code BREWZLE70 and they will give you an exclusive 70% off of their award-winning skincare trial set. On top of that you can SAVE BIG on the add-ons products of your choice when you add it to your trial. Thank you Geologie for sponsoring this video!
So basically what we can take out of this is the distillers now are turning product over as quickly as possible diminishing the quality and if you want product which used to be the standard you’re now having to pay 50+ dollars for a bottle of bourbon and in many cases much more than that.
Yep people care more about money than quality
Same with the wine industry as a part owner of a winery and pro winemaker seeing prices go up for crap wines hurts me, I try to be as fair in pricing my wines as i can while making enough money to stay in business. I want to deliver a good product at a price I feel is very consumer friendly but still friendly towards me being in business.
What was standard MSRP back in the 60s and what would that be now if adjusted for inflation? It seems like from the video that the quality on these specific bottles was indeed much higher, but those bottles would be much more expensive now. $5 in 1965 is about $50 in today’s money. If we are comparing dusty bottles to nice bottles from the same distillery today, would the outcome be closer or different? I don’t know. Might be a good follow up experiment for the channel to do. Run a dusty blind against something that costs the same in today’s dollars and see what happens.
There’s a reason ppl gush over BT products. They don’t mass produce it like the others.
Let's look at blantons, it was rumored to be 6-8yr old bourbon but now it's 4-6yr. Cost has gone up and age has gone down because of the demand. So yes you are correct
I think the big difference is the ever expanding product lines. 25-30 years ago, Old Forester just had the bonded and the 86 proof. The really good barrels went into that stuff. Today the exceptional barrels get set aside for the premium product offerings.
That's a really good point
You’ve had some good stuff. What Bourbons do you see frequently where you are?
@@x5j94Have you ever had Caol Ila? That and Talisker are my favorite Scotches, for what it's worth. This is coming from a Yank though, haha 😉
If i was a distillery owner I would never set stuff aside for premium products. I would use it to improve my core products, as I do in the wine industry. I am a professional winemaker.
That’s exactly right
You should do the vintage old Fitzgerald against Pappy 15 since old Fitzgerald used to be what the actual Mr. Pappy Van Winkle was distilling
I started drinking bourbon in 1983. The bourbon run over the last decade has ruined the entire industry for the most part. Now distillers are putting out average whiskey on limited runs and calling it “rare” or creating their own scarcity all for money. Yeah, there was rot gut back 40 years ago, but folks caught on and knew what was good and what wasn’t. And if it wasn’t good, it didn’t hang around long.
That is the same as what is happening in the wine industry, every since the judgement of paris created cult wines(cask 23). Screaming Eagle is the perfect example of it, its average wine it really is not anywhere near as good as is claimed, and I am a professional winemaker I am qualified to judge it but they ask a insane price for the limited cases they produce they created scarcity to get money. Its a big scam.
There are so many differences between the older products and the new ones. Old bourbon were mad with different grains, the oak barrels were made with older wood, lower barrel entry proof, still cleaning practices, and vatting systems. These variety of factors make dusties so much more complex, and even at lower proofs allow their flavors to shine.
The old fitzgerald prime you had during the video was also Stitzel-Weller.
So what'd we learn today? When the old timers say shit was just better back in my day. They were categorically correct.
The lead in everything just made it that much sweeter. 😂
Big difference is older bourbons had a lot lower barrel entry proof. Once they raised the max to 125 a lot of the flavor gets more watered down when proofed down.
Hey TJ! Been really enjoying your vids and started getting myself into Bourbon, even if its not as good as it used to be! 😅 The hunting vids are great fun and helped me understand what I was seeing in the shops over here in the UK, certainly helped me appreciate i could pick up a Buffalo Trace and an Eagle Rare for equivalent of $60! Got my sights on maybe a Four Roses Single Barrel now, don't get a whole lot of barrel proof over here though! All the best!
I had a bottle of segrams crown royal that was bottled in 1970 that I opened when my first child was born almost 6 years ago and a bottle of Canadian club that was bottled in 1971 at my wedding 2 years ago
Both of them were miles beyond their current versions
I still have a pour or 2 from the club left
But I'll absolutely grab any vintage bottle I see unopened these days
Side note, love your videos and would love to tag up for a drink some day, I am in the huntsville alabama area so not too far away!
Keep doing what you doing!
Just wanted to comment to say that I recently bought the Benchmark Bonded (I immediately switched it to a corked decanter to avoid the bad cap oxidation issue) on your recommendation. Absolutely loved it, and your assessment that it punched above its class and sipped well neat were spot on. Thanks for turning me on to my new go to "everyday" whiskey!
a vintage whiskey hunt would be an awesome video. wanna see evan williams stuff compared old vs new
I just finished off a bottle of Rebel 100, it is a pretty nice whiskey for $35 around here in Slowhio. Cant wait for this video to drop.
TJ, what a phenomenal video. Thanks for sharing. Super enlightening!
From the UK!, CZcams algorithm brought me here and can’t stop watching. If a newbie was to get into collecting, what would be the best path to take as a newbie?. LOVE THE CONTENT ASWELL!
I’m a bit older than you & “to me” Id say that in general…..that the same brands of most bourbons tasted better back in the day. I know your taste buds change over the years, but I’ve noticed it a lot with different bourbons. Seeing that Rebel Yell reminds me of some *bad* nights when I was younger….. 😂🤢Seeing that also reminds me of the “Fighting Cock / Brass Monkey” brands too !!!
Keep up the great work buddy !!!
*Happy New Year !!!!*
I have a bottle of Weller Antique 107 that I bought about 12 years ago. In a taste-off it was much better than the “modern” Weller Antique 107 store pick bottle my brother had two months ago.
Wow, this is a little mind blowing. But it makes since with the expansion of new products, more blends than ever before and lower age statements. GREAT video......... as always!
Old stizel weller , National distillers and vintage wild turkey Are my favorite vintage distillers. It can be pretty tricky when hunting for them and it's hard to find stuff in the wild anymore. The days of cheap Vintage whiskey is long gone. There's a lot of information out there on what codes to look for and markings on bottles. That can be very helpful to make sure you get what you're looking for.
My favorites are OGD BIB 8YR (national distillers)from the late 80s, (It told you how old it was on the tax stamp).
CGF Wild Turkey 12yr
Old Weller Antique 7yr (stizel weller) with the gold veins on the bottle.
Happy hunting !
@DerrickMarkleymusic I was talking about actual vintage whiskey. The whiskey that was produced before they started up these distilleries again. 80' and earlier, totally different ball game.
I had a pint of old #7 in my motorcycle bag for 4 yrs. It was very smooth.
I found an unopened old grand-dad in my grandfathers basement years ago. It was old enough that the bottle was not in ML’s. Its still on the shelf and reserved for very special occasions even though it’s not a special bottle
Revival Vintage Spirits in Covington, KY specializes in just these kind of spirits. It is an amazing walk though bourbon history with daily pours of the old stuff. Brad Bonds is known as the Indiana Jones of the bourbon industry! Great stuff!
Thanks bourbon boom for cheapening all our whiskey while raising prices. I honestly expected there to be a much smaller difference, especially since the vintage is old, but this makes it pretty clear that distillers aren't fully maturing their whiskey anymore since demand is so high. Pretty sad you gotta pay for special bottles now to get what used to be average bourbon.
Don't know if you take suggestions for mixed drinks, but I got a couple:
1. I call it Snaz it's ice 3 oz of crown vanilla 3 oz of a Christmas ale and fill the rest with Dr pepper cream soda then a lil stir
2. Howler head and root beer
I'm drinking 8 year Jim Beam from a ceramic horse decanter from 1974 that I opened yesterday. It's like liquid marshmallow, do good and smooth.
It all looks tasty to me. Wild seeing how much darker a few of those classics were. Yum
Great video. Subscribed.
Reminds me of how good and affordable ($30ish in my area) Elijah Craig Small batch was 10 years ago when it had a 12yr age statement.
I have one of those EC 12’s in my basement. One of these days…
Do more of these! Seriously I enjoyed it so much!
I’m from bardstown and some of the master distillers are good friends of mine so this was super interesting!
You need to find an old bottle from 70s or 80s of early times and do a side by side. Its amazing to see the difference. Got some old bottles that were never opend from my granny's house when she passed.
I'm not surprised about the vintage none age statements being better because they more than likely had older whiskey in them. But I would have thought the bonded would be closer together.
Just learned your local to me , that's amazing. I'm in valley. Wish I could have joined you on your Columbus hunt.
I would lime your top recommended for 100 and under...
I have had the urge to wanna bourbon hunt since watching, thank you for the videos! Love em
I like the rebell 100 I get it for $ 22.00 here in Indiana
I’ve got a old unopened bottle of Yellowstone. From back when it was distilled and bottled in st louis mo.
Old National Distillers (OGD & OT) had a great butterscotch flavor back then for sure
Stitzel Weller distillery is still in business and is located just outside of Louisville in Shively, KY. They distill Blade & Bow among others. Weller is distilled by Buffalo Trace. It gets confusing as hell. 👍😳👍
Yeah, they shut down and their brands were sold off to places (like Sazerac) and someone else bought the facility and is making stuff, but it ain't the stuff that's in these bottles.
Everything you described on the vintage OGD, I get on the current OGD. While I'm sure it's different, I'm also fairly certain trying the vintage then going to the new muted flavors on your palette with the new.
HOWEVER, the cost-cutting by not aging properly almost certainly effects the modern product. LEAVE IT IN THE DAMN BARREL AND STOP CHARGING A PREMIUM FOR IT WHEN YOU DO! IT CAN'T COST YOU THAT MUCH TO SIMPLY IGNORE IT FOR A WHILE LONGER!
I've had ODG BIB from the late 80s and on the tax stamp it showed the distiled and bottled dates. They were 8 year bourbon back then. I guarantee the current OGD BIB is almost exactly the legal requirement of 4yr. With that aging difference they are vastly different products. Also back then, they were distilled by national distillers. Now it is distilled by Jim Beam.
Distilleries get taxed yearly for the barrels they have aging, plus there is loss due to angels share, so its not just as simple as forgetting about it
@@kodysanders486 I'm not uneducated in these things. You're telling me that $.05 per 100 in value on a barrel equates to an inability to allow the barrel to age beyond 4 years or justifies inflated bottle pricing? I don't think so. Especially not with the volume of production and sales at which the established distilleries operate. I'll grant you the angels share argument, with max possible loss estimated at 5% per year. At 8 years you retain about 66% of your original product. However, I still maintain its possible to produce an 8-10 year product that doesn't break the bank. If not, how does Buffalo Trace do that with Eagle Rare? $30 - $40 MSRP? I think people have just gotten so complacent (with everything) that they just swallow a narrative without ever thinking about it.
Real estate is the the most expensive part of producing whiskey. Making whiskey/bourbon is generally pretty cheap, storing it for years is not.
You have had so much whisky that you are drawn to the different.
I have an old bottle of Ardbeg 10 year and it is vastly different compared to a newer one I just picked up the other month. I think this kind of tactic is just hitting everywhere right now. Between inflation, rising cost of ingredients, and companies wanted to keep their profit margins high they're just turning out whatever they can get away with. Obviously that doesn't apply to everybody and every product, but it seems to be fairly common.
Same here. I was on a buying frenzy about 15 years+ ago with bourbons, ryes, and single malt whiskys. I am now down to a small number of bottles and, without exception, when I buy newer replacements, they aren't as good. I heard that it is getting harder to get quality wood for the barrels as a contributing factor in the downfall of the bottles. Also, international demand, much of it from Asia, is resulting in the companies churning out their product as fast and in as great of a quantity as possible.
I have a 1980s old fitz 100 from stitzell that I’ve yet to crack the seal on. Waiting for that occasion.
I found a bottle of OGD bonded in McComb, Mississippi. I thought hard about picking it up, but I went with Wilderness Trail that day. I may have to ride back up there and see if Northside Spirits still has some.
OGD used to be realllllll nice before they basically octupled their output starting about 2-3 years ago. Now it is just non-offensive.
I don't even drink bourbon but this is one of my favourite channels.... Maybe I should grab a bottle for the next video...
Thanks to this channel I ended up buying turkey 101 and damn its good! been missing out, the only whiskey I've had has been Jameson so far.
If you like Jameson you will love Red Breast 12. Also Rare Breed is a nice step up from 101.
I find Old Forester 100 proof quite tasty and a great buy
I could not believe it when I saw the Rebel Yell bottle because I have the exact same bottle sitting in the cupboard. I only have about one third of a bottle left so I rationed it out and did a blind against Weller 107. I was shocked on how close it was. OWA won of course but it was closer than I thought it would be.
Great video.
Sad that most inexpensive current whiskey is cheap whiskey instead of good whiskey.
I don’t want to buy an ok or decent bourbon. I want a good bourbon and unfortunately that has been the 45 to 75 range and lately now 55 to 110 with a few sub 55 like Rare Breed.
My first bottle of eagle rare was a vintage bottle. I absolutely fell in love and bought the last vintage bottle they had. The new eagle rare bottles they ordered and had delivered isn't as good . The old bottles were covered in a thick layer of dust so I know they were old.
One problem with the ODG review is the dusty was distilled by OGD and the new one is JB distillate from a different distillery. It would be like tasting a 1970 Old Crow versus a current OC. Current OC is JB distillate. But as a judgement of a 1967 OC I sampled it was very nice.
I found one of those Old Forester's.... I should have picked it up...
It's a shame that it'll be almost impossible to get any vintage bottles here in the UK, this video has made me want to try some now 😂next time I'm stateside I'll have to have a bourbon hunt of my own
That’s because we won the war and are keeping them to ourselves! USA 🇺🇸
An old man in Kentucky told me it's "all about the trees". The oak used for barrels back then was probably 100's of years old, whereas today, they only reach 30-50 years old before being harvested. Not sure how true that is, though.
Come to Louisiana, you can get OG BIB anywhere for msrp
My buddy got me a 1979 Old Forester bottle for the morning of my wedding to toast everyone (and just get loose lol). Immediately noticed the quality of it compared to some of the stuff I've tasted.
I dont know anything about whiskey but its oddly interesting to watch these videos
Hey TJ if you want to reseal that bottle you need to follow what is done for chip bags.
1. Get some nitrogen
2. Shoot a bit of nitrogen into the bottle
This will displace all the oxygen
3. Reseal and keep the cork moist.
4. Enjoy later.
I picked up an unopened Beam decanter commemorating the 1969 Kentucky Derby at an estate sale last year. I have no intention of opening it, just thought it was kind of cool to have
I grabbed 6 different unopened ceramic decanters of Jim Beam, all from 1974, that I found at an estate auction. I opened 2 so far and they are very yummy. You're missing out if you just put that on a shelf.
There used to be a stamp on every bottle on how long it was in the barrel.( Typical 48 months for most, the others were listed in years 5,6,7,) Those days are long gone. You also got bottlers, that as long as the quota is hit don't care.
Great video!
So I have come across a bottle of wax sealed A.H. Hirsch Reserve. Spring of 74 Sour Mash. Any suggestions?
Been watching a lot of your videos. Also been hunting old bottles of Rebel Yell. I can’t find ANYTHING. Worked at a liquor store for a long time and it was my go to. Use to get the bottles with the soldier on it.
COULD YOU PLEASE
Point me in the direction of where I may be able to find some old bottles of Rebel Yell !?!?
Price is important . I can't afford to pay $$$ for the pappy etc . Even in 2010 i bought 23yo Pappy van winkle at auction for £128 ( here in the UK ). Which was cheaper than retail !
I found on old fitz in my grandparents home that was from the 1960s, unfortunately I sold it and wish I hadn’t. It was before I was into bourbon
Do you think that the barrel wood hardness is the difference? For example my oak hard wood floors are softer than Pine from back in day...
If you ever get a chance try pre 60's 4 rose's it is grate
Even just older bottles of Jack are so much better. Not surprised by this.
Great Question O.O I say Yes. But towards the end though, once you’ve tried a few of both 👉
Have you had any expressions from Dettling distillery in Alabama?
"Smayull...14:27 " - Hints of Alabama with some Georgia thrown in. Rolls off the tongue with a note of a graveled red clay road after a summer thunderstorm.
Really Cool Video! If you are ever in Atlanta and want to open a bottle of Seagrams VO Canadian Whiskey from 1962, let me know. Looking for an excuse to give it a sip.
Do you have any additional information on your SHOT show event?
It's the price vs sales. Back then they did it to make now they do it to make money.
I'm a young blood and just started but wow the application to the vid and the old ways. Man my mouth was watering every sip great vid
Ahhh heck, not the ads plug 🤦♂️ I know it takes 💰 to make videos, buttttt, pleaseee don't let it get to the point to where I feel like I'm watching NASCAR and just waiting for "Ok guys let's go to the 'Buffalo Bar' and review this whiskey".... I commend you though for at least separating/sectioning the time frame of the advertisement, cause so many creators don't. THANK YOU. 👏 keep the videos coming brother, Brewzle will truly be a legend looked-back upon one day, your building a legacy 🙌
I remember buying antique 107 by the gallon in the 80’s
Id like to see a background story on you man. Like what you did before youtube, and what got you into wiskey, what made you start a youtube channel. Just a brewzel back story. Please??
I have two odb’s from the 60’s. An Austin Nichols eight year Wild Turkey and a BiB Old Forester. I’ve been reluctant to open them because once they’re gone they’re gone forever but the day may be coming.
Could you do a video on sediment at the bottom of bottles you might would buy or leave on shelves. When do you typically see it occur or in what bottles it’s good or bad to see.
Sediment would be good imo
More pure
Quick question. I have a bottle of buffalo trace i juat got after it being hard to find in my area. Finally had it for the first time and didnt much care for it. My absolute favorite is Bulliet. Are my taste buds just bad? Where do i go from there. I think ita the citrus taste of Bulliet that i like so much. Any suggestions?
It’s okay to like what you like.
I ran into Brewzle’a page last month. Never been into bourbon now I’m several thousand dollars in and still hunting 😐
I’m not even old enough to buy alcohol but just watching these videos is so satisfying! 2 more years!!!
Pace yourself. You only have one liver.
Hmmm... Stitzel-Weller reopened in 2014 with their own brand names. I wonder how they'd compare to the vintage Stitzel-Weller Rebel Yell 🤔
Still waiting for you to review Pipe Dream!!!!
I don't think this has as much to do with modern distillation versus old as it does with how degraded the quality of the food supply has become in the last 40-50 years. The quality of the corn, rye, wheat, barley, etc, simply isn't on the tier that it was in the past.
exactly our whole food supply is messed up and the soil is depleted of nutrients
Food is grown for transport and shelf life not flavor. Industrial farming at its finest.
Nutrient shortage in fields is a big issue. I do organic gardening in compost rich soil and not only are my vegetables better than anything in the store in every metric but they are also more nutritious.
@@amason8479
@@justinfowler2857 100 percent agree
And it’ll only get worse
3:10 "The harshness is starting to go away, the more I have."
Funny how that works.
It looks like whiskey evolved even if they are out of the barrel for the better. 😊
I wonder if it’s like a wine thing were bottle aging has an impact
It makes you wonder if the barrels were older growth, making the biggest difference. I mean, Have we not improved our Distilling technique and execution?
So my question is dose the extra time the vintage bottles have on them lend anything to thier over all out come. Just asking because it seems they all had a better everything!
Glass usually doesn't contribute to the aging process, but what is different are the distilling techniques used back in the day. Bourbon lovers back then really did have it better!
Hi, so I‘m just getting into Bourbon. I started with a Buffalo trace and i quite Like it. For my second bottle im deciding between an Eagle Rare 10 and the Old Forester 86. Which one should I get? (Price is roughly the same)
Eagle rare
Get OF 1910, 86 is good, but 1910 is far superior and still relatively low proof. ER is good, I just don't think it's that good, especially if you pay more than $40
@@user-tw8bp3yq8sI agree. 1910 is about the best you can get for price and availability. I prefer the 1920 due to the higher proof but if you’re starting out, the ‘10 is the way to go.
Lol this is gonna set Brewzle on a vintage hunt now 😂😂😂 thats an expensive journey right there!
I think there are a couple factors that are to blame for this. 1-Older wood had tighter grain and the could lead to different barrel interaction, 2-the demand on whisky is now much higher leading to the non age stated bottles being younger than they used to be.
I had some 21yo old Kesslers that had been stored in the basement. "When your son is twentyone" it tasted like an open Kessler that had been in a moldy basement 😅.
Still waiting for you to try the Skunk Brothers whisky's from Washington State. Preferably the Smoke Jumper's Burbon.
Added to the list!
@@Brewzle I would be happy to send you a bottle if you can't get out this way. Let me know, love the channel!
its old growth lumber used for barrels. different type of wood than whats available today. and vintage liquor was not run thru 40 foot tall reflux stills. there was still mash flavor in it, much more so than modern booze. combine that with the barrels, its not the same whiskey anymore
They used better ingredients and older wood back in the day. The grain was “organic” before the word was coined. The white oak trees were 70-100 years old. The batches were more hands on than machine made like today. You should do this with Wild Turkey 101 from the 70s-80s vs WT 101 today. I love modern WT 101 bourbon and rye but it pales in comparison with the dusty 🦃. Old Crow is probably the brand has been ruined the most.
Just found a bottle of wt 1855 yesterday. insanely good
The people today are not the same people who actually cared about their products, and imo are now pumping out whiskey as fast as they can.
My Grand-Paps gave me some "Old Crow" back in 1988. I though I was going to die.
on the same theme: i'd love to see wild turkey 101new vs old (90s); beam black; bulleit; hirsch 16 v michters; and just for the lols: laphroaig (10) ;)
also 4 roses regular, bc iirc that was one of the worst whiskeys i've ever tasted
Thank you for letting me know, im going hunting ❤
To be honest, I just chug it down as fast as possible and wait for the feeling. Which one feels better and leaves you with less of a hangover? lol that’s what I want to know.
But what would the Rebel yell 100, taste like in 20 years? Do you think it's a brewing issue or an age issue?
Doesn’t age in glass
This makes me sad too. We're missing out. And bourbon wasn't a thing back then, was just sitting there being awesome with no one caring.
Some of us cared. There wasn’t nearly the number of brands back in the 80’s and, for the most part, the bourbon was all good. There was still rot gut around, but it didn’t stay in business long.
Heck back in the 70's and 80's even wines that are now cult wines were not known and were higher quality and I have bottles of wines that are now like $400 a bottle that sold for $4 a bottle in 1973@@brianhayes7153