Chris Reeve Sebenza 25 Review: Great Knife... But Not a 21
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- čas přidán 9. 08. 2015
- Here's my review of the Chris Reeve Sebenza 25, and comparison to the vaunted Sebenza 21. While some will appreciate the 25 for its thicker blade, new primary grind and revised index finger groove, for me there are just too many changes that go the wrong direction. The new pivot (Umnumzaan style), narrower handle, pocket clip location and the absence of the bushing pivot all combine to make a knife I'm not extremely fond of. But variety is the spice of life, now isn't it?
I was just given a 2016 Sebenza 25 as a gift. I was blown away.
Enjoyed your review as always. Thank you very much. Very detailed and useful. One minor points though made me chuckle a bit, namely - the lanyard. That knot is a slipping, you know. Just pull on it and it will slide down a bit, enlarging the loop around the standoff. All you need is about 1/8" increase in the loop's length, and the lanyard will fall down between the handle slabs when you hold the knife and will not impede your grip. Anyway, thanks for a nice review.
Great, informative video. I would've bought the 25 if I didn't see this video. Thanks for keeping me informed. I have a 940 because of your videos on it. I love it just as much as you do and I also got my blade lasermarked (with my initials).
we share so much of the same aspects on knife reviews.I wanted to so much favor the 25 but you are spot on on all points in my opinion.Great review Thanks~Dave
Hi Rob, Crikey this one was a long time coming... Agreed on all points brother... Except "the mind control spell" LoL!
Great video my friend, speak soon!
Grace and Peace,
Lee.
lee33htzdiscotech You ought to know as well as anyone, brother! She sure came out sweet!!!
Great review Rob. Man, they really did some changes that make quite a difference. That surprises me, considering how well the 21 works to begin with. I'm with ya, they sort of blew it with that handle/pocket clip mod. But at least it's still got the overall CR quality.
Good explanation. I got a 25 shortly after it came out. I wanted to fall in love with it, but it doesn't have the same charm in your hand as the 21. It's a good example of "if it isn't broken, don't try to fix it". I know why CRK did what they did, but I'd much rather have the Regular Sebenza back in production. I still regret selling the one I managed to acquire new, right after they stopped making them. And I keep trying other knives, most recently a Medford, being initially very impressed. But the 21 is still the best folding knife I own and I don't anticipate that changing, even with several customs.
Just sent in a 2001 flag baby benz, w/ the polished blade. They did a re-polish for $25.00, and all the rest for free. What a deal...I've been considering a 25 for some time, cause I like my 2009 Umnumzan...NOW I da know....!
Totally agree. Not saying I wouldn't ever want a 25.. But It definitely should not be called a sebenza. The pivot bushing is genius. And honestly for me, it's hard to love a knife as much without it now.
thanks,i was flipping a coin on witch one to get! after all ,we all end up owning a sebenza sooner or later ! so i most likely will get the 21,although i really do like the thicker blade on 25,oh well can't have it all!as always vary nice video.
Very telling that in the 31 they brought back the "true Sebenza" pivot bushing. Fantastic explanations of all these points!
good review. Hard to beat a 21 for anything.
Thanks for all your videos I really appreciate them. Did you get to review the Chris Reeve 25 in carbon fiber?
I edc a 25 and the only thing i hated on it was the pocket clip location. I have since switched it out to a grip clip and for me it's really the perfect knife.
I got a brand new Large Sebenza 21 for $320 and Its just amazing. I just love it definitely worth it
+Luis Torres Just got one for $350, man deals are great
+Chris Reeve hahaha right it's it's so cool I love using it
+Casey Bitts dumbass
Great vid. I still want a star-benza 25 though
I would love to know your thoughts on Inkosi! Is it a better knife? Would you like that more? Maybe more importantly, do you think they solved some of the issues you had with the 25?
The knifes are mirror images of each other. Did you order a left handed knife? If so I can understand why you like yours better.
How did you manage to keep the lanyard pin in there without the lanyard attached? Mine falls out.
rob have you ever been to smokey mountain knife works in Sevierville tn? definitely worth a visit.
Chris Reeve has been making subtle changes on this basic design for 25 plus years and has produced a almost perfect product, although I respect your opinion I find it hard to believe there aren't real solid reasons for the new design. In any event, to each his own. Love your videos,
citygreek1 Thanks for the insight and perspective on this one. While I'm aware of the subtle changes in The Sebenza over its lifetime, the 25 for me represents a couple of moves backward and some missteps forward. Of course, folks had the same feelings about the "Regular", which precipitated the "Classic" only a few years later (kind of like Coke... LOL). At least this time CRK had the hindsight to continue production of the 21 concurrently with the 25, so everyone's happy and we can have this glorious debate ;)
TheApostleP I don't really think that anyone would be disappointed with either knife, both the 21 and 25 will perform exceptionally well. Again, I look forward to, and enjoy your videos. BTW thanks for the quick response.......
The 25 is probably the most comfortable CRK in my hand. The umnum was unbearable. The clip on that was literally on the edge of the handle; it felt super weird.
Quick clarification: I have two 21s with cf show-side scales, both have a deeper and more resonant sound than ti 21s. I assume the 25s will be similar, and I assume this has to do with the different resonances of ti vs. cf.
no pivot bushing, no sebenza. waiting for your review of sebenza 31 soon.
Man! I'm still saving up for a Benchmade 940! I didn't think I was poor until I watched CZcams.
dontcallmetravis The 940 is great but it is kinda expensive at almost 180. Still it is a great knife and i hope you can get it soon.
I'm being facetious; I can't help myself. I have enough money for the things I need. That said, I had to stop watching Virtuovice for weapons envy.
So, they had the pivot bushing....and then they went and made a new knife....worse by taking it away? And adding another finger choil? What if my finger doesn't fit? Considering the price point, I'm glad I went with a 21 for my first Seb. And it's one of the new CGG ones. Should be here in a few days. Hopefully it lives up to my expectations!
Hello, I've left a few messages on your Facebook but never received a reply. I'm looking to get three of my CRK knives sharpened. How can I get the ball rolling on that? Thanks for your time. Great vids!
Unless I misunderstood you, I think it's quite a compliment to your skills that your sharpening customer sent his knife to CRK for a spa treatment but he wanted you to sharpen it.
Luigi Bartolomeo Thanks, Luigi. He's had enough of both edges to know the difference. I have him under a mind control spell ;)
too gassy
I really like the grind they put on that 25. I like hollow grindblades for their advantages and i like flat ground blades for their advantages, a lot of time hybred of things doesnt work because they no longer excell at one thing BUT i'd love that "slight" hollow grind on a Hinderer XM-24..
Hi Rob, enjoyed your review. I'm not a big fan of the 'zaan due to the location of the thumb stud (just doesn't work well for my hand size), but I like both the 21 & 25. If you like the sound the 25 makes now, I think you'll like the carbon fiber scale version even better - my cf sound is a bit deeper and more resonant than the 25 with only ti scales. I just wish they made an insingo version of the 25.
TheApostleP I was wondering if you've noticed a change in the relative ease of sharpening on Sebenzas, 25s and the Inkosi since the transition from the 58-59 RC to 59-60 RC a few years ago? Have you noticed a change in edge retention since the increased hardness blades were released a few years ago?
rob hanson Absolutely, Rob. 1 point in the Rc scale has a pretty big effect at the upper ranges, both in edge retention and sharpenability. The new CRK's are definitely more difficult.
TheApostleP Ultimately, as a user, do you prefer the new or old hardness? I am considering purchasing my first CRK and I am trying to decide between purchasing a pre-owned safe queen or a brand new one.
rob hanson I prefer the higher hardness, but if I could buy a nice used one and save significant money I would.
like the 25 blade but they should have left everything else the same as the 21, as i sit here wishing I could buy a sebenza lol.
love your knife reviews.
+Curtis Conley Thanks, Curtis!
i think that groove on the back of the blade is maybe to strike a fire steel, or it is just cosmetic.
I pretty much see it the same way, but damn....the 25 with carbon fiber is an absolute beauty.
Have you seen the Inkosi they came out with? I've seen the pictures and it looks like he fixed some of those pocket clip problems with it being a new position.
Federman462 Indeed he did! The clip orientation looks a little weird in that model, but I'll guarantee you it's much more comfortable.
had 4. no bells and whistles but a feeling of satisfaction and reliability every time i used them. yes alot of money but given some time one would understand. ya got to realize it will last a life time. hence it can be handed down. son grandson whatever.
Well Rob, it looks like you got your wish. The large inkosi is now available (knifeart has them) and the 25 will be discontinued. Looks like Chris was listening to you when you said you wished the 25 wasn't called a sebenza because now its called an inkosi large!!!
WooHoo!!!
+TheApostleP my guess is the sebenza 30 will be unveiled next year with a return to the bushing pivot!
And they fixed the blade stop pin issue. and apparently the pocket clip issue now it's not on the lockbar. I think it's a pretty sweet knife
Rob -- I didn't listen to you and got the 25. Gotta say, the stop-pin design is like a grain of sand in my boot. Love the knife, but soon enough I'll be selling it for a 21 or Inkosi.
When will that LH carbon fiber 25 be available from KnifeArt.com?
Bryan C. Bailey Larry says 2-4 months. Sorry I didn't make that clear in the video.
How do you get that blade edge to look so beautiful?
If I told you... 😈
+TheApostleP i understand lol. Love your vids :D
I just received my large carbon fiber Selena 21 insing from knife art and the blade is ground crooked, makes the knife look off center, it's going to CRK tomorrow.
Wesley Daniel Bummer! I'm sure they'll make it right.
I honestly Prefer the 25 because the lack of locating hole.
I believe that blade "divot" serves two functions…
One, it's simply a transition blend for the crowned spine into the flat chamfered back part. Try to imagine how it would look if you filled that little notch in... Awkward, I presume.
Second, I believe they may use it as a fixturing point to precisely locate and clamp the blade in the jig.
This second one is only a guess, but the first one is on the money...
Greg Fowler I think you might be on to something with the fixturing hunch. After all, that's why we have a hole in the show side scale of 21's, now isn't it? I think the ferro rod idea might have been an after thought. I haven't tried it, but that scallop isn't exactly sharp on any edge. I'd be surprised if it threw sparks very well -- S35 VN and less than sharp edges don't seem to be a good recipe for sparks.
I had considered this as a possibility, but never tried it cause I didn't wanna add any unnecessary scratches to my main EDC (it already has plenty, but out of use - never needed to start an emergency campfire yet).
Just looking at the geometry closely makes me think it would function very poorly at this task. For one, it's pretty small and also it's way too close to the thumbstuds... That said, I'd be curious to see how well it does (just not with my personal blade...)
TheApostleP agreed on all your points here.
Also, the 25 was my first CRK and I love it. Got it barely even used off the Flea Bay, but due to their demand, didn't even save a whole heck of a lot of $$$ over a brand new one...
You do raise many good points. I think it's getting near time I add an original Sebby to my burgeoning collection, but just as you mentioned near the end, it has to be different enough from the others.
So here's what I'm thinking, if this is even an option: small Sebby 21 in carbon, Insingo blade (again, if possible)
Greg Fowler I love it! We'd be going in two different directions for the same addictive reason! ;)
+Nathan Allen my collection thanks you (though my wallet does not...)
Would like to get in touch with you about your sharpening services! Is there an email address you use for communication?
Just wish the 21 had an ambi thumb stud. The only thing keeping me from buying it.
Dr. Tautology you can choose dual thumb studs when ordering directly from CRK
the divot in the spine of the 25 is for fire steel i bet .
dale carpenter I've heard that before, but it's kinda small and the edges are broken 🤔
Is your 21 an EDC for yourself that you actually work with? Looks like a nice knife but hard to see really using a $445 knife.. If I spent that much on an EDC i'd want it to last a lifetime.
I have 4 large 21's and carry 3 of them in my EDC rotation. Really... No kidding.
+TheApostleP haha why 4?
so are you saying that if one was to improve on the sebenza the only way to improve it would be add a ceramic detent lock bar interface? im stuck in this conundrum. 25 or 21.....it will probably be my first and only really nice knife, so my purchase is a one off and ive been stuck in this decision for a month or so now....this video did not help matters any.....ugg!!
Joshua Barney What a great question!!! If I got to design the next Sebenza, it would be a 21 with the ceramic detent / lock interface and the index finger groove from the 25, but no second groove and the 21's handle width. I'd keep the .125" stock, but go with the large hollow grind from the 25. I never thought of that until your comment, so thank you!!!
This is not helping my conundrum!lol...
Joshua Barney I was at the same loss and finally bought a micarta 25 for EDC after playing for hours simultaneously with a plain 21 and a micarta 25 ... Since it's my only CRK, I have no comparison other than features and ergonomics when handling the two knives. I actually like the 2nd finger choil much better and I never even noticed there may be issues with the pocket clip. So for me the 25 was just more comfortable and I had no presumptions of what a Sebenza "should be like". I've also handled an older Regular, and even liked its finger choil and serrations better than the single choil on the 21. But that's just me.
I think you may have cut it back to compare ergonomics if you do not collect but use the knife. It seems these work completely different for some people. Blade is almost the same - so no real advantage to either. Minor differences are the smoother jimping on the 21 and the flatter grind on 25, which may or may not outperform the hollow grind in certain situations. I doubt there will ever be a clear decision on this and certainly not in standard EDC situations. Both knifes are heavily overbuilt for normal EDC use anyways.
For me the changes in design are sound, apart from the assymetric stop pin. But even this is seen differently by different reviews.
I like the video review, since its arguments and the comparison is sound - but if you look at XIUXIU1313's review, the outcome is totally different since he recommends the 25 over Umnum and 21 - if you happen to buy a "first" or "only" CRK.
And of course thanks to The ApostleP for his great video reviews - which are ranging in my personal (whatever that's worth) top 5 of "most informative and entertaining knife nut publications"!
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:28)
Is Jesus the only man who never did?
To me the jimping on the 25 doesnt look as clean as the 21
Rob I really think you got the 25 wrong in this video......the 25...in my opinion is superior to the 21 for 4major reasons and 1 minor reason...the ceramic ball detent and the ergos..blade thickness ..I have both and the 25 is a much better knife in my opinion...yes its essentially an umnumzaan but that is more robust then a 21 too....I never doubt your opinions but I think this one you may have judged prematurely
kenny I have to disagree with you, Kenny, and apparently so did CRK. They made the tweaks I suggested to the 25 and properly gave it its own name, because it’s not a Sebenza without a bushing pivot, and the Large Inkosi was born (a fantastic knife in its own right, btw). Then they updated the Sebenza with a ceramic ball lock interface and a slight re-styling and we now have the Sebenza 31. That was the right path. I didn’t even bill them for consulting 😉
@@TheApostleP I didn't know the 31 existed....I just got the 25....new old stock from 2014...and comparing it to my 21 from 13 ...I kinda lean towards the 25 ...that being said I'm definitely going to look at the 31....and you have an inkosi right?one of my biggest gripes with my non ceramic ball 21 is my lock up moving to 75 percent from roughly 30 percent when I bought it. I actually stopped carrying it every day because to me the lockup proved soft
Why in the world would CRK not use the same bushing system for cryin out loud?
I actually prefer the inkosis adjustable stop pin with the large non 21 style pivot washers than the old bushings. You can adjust how free it is without really reducing lockup. Only gripe is that locktite is needed.
Hey, love your reviews. You convinced me to bite the bullet and get one. It's in the Mail!! Have you seen this: czcams.com/video/T4DNRn-sK-c/video.html
So the 25 is inferior because God didn't make our hands to hold a knife with more than one finger grove?
Im sorry, did you watch the video?
Ryan Tighe Actually, more than one finger grove is fine. It's just finger grooves that God specified no more than one of when He designed the human hand ;). In all seriousness though, if the handle is correctly shaped, an index finger groove is plenty, leaving the rest of the handle to accomodate a variety of hand grips and positions. More than one groove hurts that versatility, and in this case, helps to create a hot spot for the end of the pocket clip.
I was just joking around, I love both of the knives. I have my eye on a 25 and an umnumzaan but I'm still saving for a grimsmo
Ryan Tighe Understood ;). Please let us know when you get ahold of a Grimsmo!
Is your friend trump?
The regular model Sebenza was perfect, dumbass Chris Reeve had to change it. He might be getting old and senile. Maybe that's why he left the company.