Is Subaru's 'new' turbo 2.4 engine really good enough? | Auto Expert John Cadogan
Vložit
- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- Save thousands on any new car (Australia-only): autoexpert.com...
OLIGHT discount! (These are awesome.)
bit.ly/3zF5hCQ
12% off: Use code AEJC
Bluetti portable power solutions: www.bluettipow...
Help support my independent reporting, securely, via Patreon: www.patreon.co...
Podcast (audio-only version, for listening in the car, etc.): anchor.fm/auto...
Save thousands on any new car (Australia-only): autoexpert.com...
AutoExpert discount roadside assistance package:
247roadservice...
Did you like this report? You can help support the channel, securely via PayPal: www.paypal.com...
American Outback XT owner here, and I have driven all 3 engines discussed. The XT 2.4T is definitely the one to get. The 3.6 is a great engine but it’s old school. It feels linear but isn’t nearly as quick as the 2.4T. The thing with the XT 2.4T is that it’s very isolating with the CVT and all of the sound insulation and acoustic glass. Essentially, the XT 2.4T is quick, under 6 seconds for 0-60 MPH, but you don’t realize it or feel it, you only notice that no one is able to keep up with you. 😂 Overall, the XT 2.4T transforms the Outback into an effortless, comfortable and refined cruiser on par with my last gen Volvo XC70. It doesn’t feel like a Honda, Toyota or Hyundai competitor, but a premium car between those and an Audi. I don’t think Subaru has lost their passion, it has just become a more refined brand. 😊
Traded my 2021 forester sport for a 24 OBW and am floored by the difference. Power, comfort, sound, it’s much closer to my wife’s RX350 than the forester was. Feels more premium. Subie’s luxury vehicle, so to speak. Just better ALL around. Oh and this baddie hangs with the Rex’s, I can attest!
@@lowery02 well those are two very very different cars so yeah....
Other than the diminishing gas mileage with city driving few are debating the up side of the new turbo engine. What we ALL want to know how does it stand over time. Please post back at 80, 120, 150k miles and tell us your results, lol. Anyway a lot of people only keep cars 2 or 3 years and don't care about long term issues so much. Me, I drive my cars a long time. Currently have 160k on my '15 OB and still going strong. No such confidence in the turbo holding up that long in Phoenix city driving.
How about a 3.6 turbo then?
@@onetimer100 I owned a Volvo V70 2.5T in Dubai. It had over 200k km on it (The V70 was actually used as a shuttle by Emirates Airlines with hundreds of thousands of miles on each unit) and was still going strong as I sold it to a teacher for peanuts. Modern turbos are not the weak point in modern engines, even in hot environments. I would recommend premium fuel in a hot climate, but all direct injected engines should be using premium; manufacturers just program the ECUs to handle regular in America, but it results in more long-term reliability issues (carbon build-up) and worse fuel economy in my experience. My XT gets about 25.5 mpg on regular and 27 mpg average on premium, so there is no reason to use regular. ;)
Subaru's pre-fake shifting CVT is actually very nice when paired with turbo engine. Super smooth for daily driving, punch the gas and it goes straight to 5600 RPM and hold it there, non-interrupted acceleration till license suspending speed.
My wife and I just bought a new (6 months ago) Outback non turbo touring and absolutely love it, we have found the power adequate the comfort and drive quality and comfort amazing. Heaps of room for the kids we tow 4 dirt bikes and all the camping gear with no issue. We still feel we didn't need the extra power of a turbo we did weigh up waiting for the turbo. We will be buying anther Subaru after this one for sure.
Yeah we have a '21 OB Touring and there's *enough* power to overtake with "S" mode on. I'm not the biggest fan of the CVT but it gets the job done and can climb some fairly steep dirt tracks just fine. I'd only consider upgrading to the turbo if towing a camper trailer or something similar as the turbo would be a fair bit thirstier around town I'd think, not to mention needing 95 RON.
Checked out video online where they test actual fuel consumption around town vs highway. 2.4T is more economic around town than the 2.5i @@JasonISF
The reason we didn't get the Outback with the 2.4L Turbo (FA24F) from launch is down to a few things:
1: Australian delivered models & engines are sourced exclusively from Japan, where as the US have their own production plant.
2: Japan didn't actually manufacture the FA24F for their market until the All-New WRX came about, the FA24F launched in the US-only Ascent SUV, and then found its way into US manufactured 7GEN Liberty (Legacy) and 6GEN Outback, meaning it was exclusive to their market initially.
3: Once the WRX went into production in Japan, so did the 2.4L Turbo there, meaning it was now readily available for AUS delivered Outbacks.
Good explanation of Subaru's shortcomings.
@@Swaggerlot it’s all relative. Sales in the US have exploded over the last 10 years and they struggle to keep up with demand at times. They don’t care about the enthusiast market anymore.
I heard from a dealer that they were having piston problems with the US built 2.4T and that it was sent to Japan for evaluation.
It makes sense that cars would come here from Japan as they are right-hand drive and that the USA would make their own because they are left-hand drive and their market is large enough to be self-supporting. My point really is that our market size makes us much less of a priority when push comes to shove and it also makes us attractive for runout parts dumping that would not sell elsewhere because our regulations pertaining to such things are not that rigorous or acted upon all that much either.
Yeah, i love the new 2.4T engine, Im an American, and got it in the legacy
Now let's get a turbo back in the Forester.
I’m one of those Subaru enthusiast. I’ve owned 6. This spring I walked into the dealership and ordered a ‘22 WRX GT without having ever seen one or driven one. I knew exactly what I was getting and was not disappointed.
I did that back in 2019. Grew up watching the WRX in world rallying and always wanted one. Did the whole family SUV thing for years. The opportunity presented itself to get me a shiny new World Rally Blue WRX and I bought it without test driving 🫣 puts a smile on my face every time I drive it .. or look back at it
We’re in the US, mtns of N.Carolina, we have a 21 Outback XT Touring with 27k miles. We love the 2.4 Turbo. We’ve had the 3.6 & 2.5. The 2.4T is awesome. Nearly the mpg of the non-turbo 2.5, but with more power than the 3.6. At times driving in the mtns, it feels like the 2.4T has almost diesel like torque. We can just fly by people driving up long steep mtn highways. And it doesn’t use a drop of oil. I changed the oil at 1500 mi, then 6k miles after that using Wix XP filters. I’ve learned to have the dealer change the CVT fluid every 40k miles if you plan on keeping them a long time too. 👍🏻🇺🇸
Got me a 2011 S-Edition Fozza. 193kw, 5 speed paddle shifter auto. Still a blast to drive and hugely useable.
Good video John , without the usual car reviews spending half the time describing the infotainment system.but you forget the mention the legendary smoothness of of a flat six engine.👍
That smoothness you describe is balance. Perfect firing sequence, kinda thing.
Even a small capacity boxer 6 would be great! I miss my EZ30. You could put a glass of water into of the engine and rev the shite out of it. The water would barely vibrate and glass never tipped over... that's balance!
I have a 2020 3.6R and love the turbine smooth power delivery.
It now has 245/45R20 tyres, 20mm rear swaybar, slotted rotors, and will soon have Bilstein B6 all round and a steering damper controller.
Loving it even more. I am considering headers and a recalibrate of the ECU too.
Love our Outback XT here in Canada. Lots of power, regular fuel, smooth and efficient. Well worth the extra cost.
hopfully you treat it nice when its cold and when its hot. issues with various oil leaks already surfaced but sure beats the gutless 2.5
Wife and I are Subaru tragics (without the dreadlocks). First new family Subaru was a 1978 sedan (lasting 16 years). Wife purchased a 1975 four wheel drive wagon in the mid 80s that lasted her through to a new purchase Forester in 1998 (still her current drive). The 78 sedan was replaced by a second hand 1992 Liberty AWD wagon (in 1994) and that was replaced by a new diesel Outback in 2016. The Liberty continues service on a bush block (along with a 1985 Brumby). Thanks for the explanation on the 2.4 turbo.
Hey, John, Yankee 2017 Forester XT owner here weighing in. Like you, I LOVE the XT, it being my 1st Subaru. Even though the 2.5 engine gets the job 'done', that's really all it does. Huge difference between it and the 2.0 and 2.4 liters. I've driven the 182 HP 2.5 when mine was in for service. Goes OK, a lot of droning when pushed. What I really like with my XT, when driving in sport mode, which is always, except when cruising on the highway, is when you put your foot into it, it 'downshifts' pronto and you're off to the races. You don't need 'sport sharp', too quirky, jumpy. There's a really satisfying rush of acceleration and torque. What I'm not happy with is Subaru itself calling its CVT 'sealed for life' and the fluid in it. Their recommended mileage/time for brake fluid, transfer case, and oil changes are ok but I've seen 30k CVT fluid (my own when they replaced it at that millage when the pan gasket started leaking) and it was already dark. IMO, the CVT is the weak link for Subarus, and the bullshit, bogus lifetime (100,000 miles) claim for fluid is just wrong. Back to availability again, Subaru Corp says they axed the Forester 2.0XT because sportiness does not rely on power alone to achieve it, and the new SGP offers improved driving performance, and standard Eyesight across their entire lineup is more important than having a 2.0XT." Huh? The 2025 Forester STI is being introduced in Japan, 175 HP 1.8 liter. Anyway, happy driving!
Iv got a 2020 Outback onyx XT with a 2.4 turbo with 60k miles on it. Iv had problems with literally everything except the motor and transmission. Iv used it hard hunting on muddy gravel roads and in deep snow. It’s the little things… window motors, brakes, lift gate, touch screen, door locks,. Especially the app! I came from Toyota and the quality just isn’t even comparable.
Wow, I’ve had the Same car and no issues. Sorry you’ve had that experience, that sucks
You are probably correct on why the 2.4t didn't make it to Australia and that is a shame. I have a friend with a 2020 Outback and I have a 2022. The 2.4t is a really nice fit to that car. It isn't a car you take to the track, but it is great pulling up a big hill, like the Sierra Nevada mountains or the long stretches across the desert where the speed limits let you open it up a bit.
I bought the missus an MY17 low km full service history Outback 3.6R Premium back in Feb.
Pity Subaru dropped this engine...it's a gem, even with the CVT. Even I enjoy driving it. It's economical, grunty enough and the car itself is very well put together.
Service from the local Subaru dealer is also very impressive.
I sat in a new Outback last week when ours was getting serviced. Must say I prefer ours, it seems bigger, more roomy and just nicer to be in.
Emissions and fuel consumption is the only reason the 3.6 finished, they are a great motor.
Guilty, I've had two Forresters and an Outback, they are good. 2.4 turbo would be tempting.
I'm in the US, and I was just able to secure a 2023 Outback Touring XT with only 8,000 mi. I went over it with a fine tooth comb and it looks perfect. It has every option. I priced out a 2024 the same way, and it was $9,300 more. In the US, I thought the 2.4 turbo had more power and torque than the flat 6 3.6R.
I’ve ordered my 3rd Subaru (WRX, RS Manual this time around) after having a 3.0 Outback and a 2.5i Liberty at present. I’m officially one of those “go to the dealership and buy another Subaru” people.
My dad drove a CVT Daf in the 1960s and seemed to like it. Pulled faster from the lights than anything else but kept him from speeding as much as in other cars, I guess.
I don't get the hate for CVT, they were banned in F1 cause they were just too good.
The CVT in the XT Outback is perfect. The car is so smooth and effortless. It is a much better drive than the Oulanders, Xtrails, Mazda's or any of the Hyundai's and Kia's.
I have the new WRX Sportswagon. The 2.4 turbo and the CVT are excellent. The CVT does not feel like a CVT (the CVT in her ladyships XV FEELS like a CVT)
How good is it right. I love mine
The new gen 2.4T cvt is outstanding in performance and feel, sounds like JC hasn’t had the pleasure yet.
We need a 2.4T Crosstrek. 6spd manual and a CVT.
Boost is awesome at high altitude.
I grabbed a 2.5 Outback in June 2022 (delivery next week). Problem is, In the interim I then started reading and watching CZcams videos about the 2.5, which drove me to grab a 2.4 turbo today (Feb delivery 2023). Question - how do I explain to my misses that we now have 2 subbies. Mind you I’ll feel good passing those trucks …. Thanks for your video which helped my decision …
🤣 hold up... so you now have 2!! cars coming, and only planned to buy 1.... 😶
First ones going to Son ( he’s paying, but boy he gets a sweat discount deal from this boomer). Pick up turbo end of March and had test drive in XT yesterday which confirmed I made a reasonable decision for a change …
@@mervharris5183 Lucky boy! 🥳
Good on you JC, that’s the first Subaru based vid that you’re very close to the money on all the way through. You might just have me back!
RHD global production capacity might have something to do with the delay in arrival;) Good things come to those that wait patiently.
Thanks for this video. It was a major part of my decision making and test driving. You addressed all the questions - to XT, or not to XT.
After taking both on the same test drive , the XT is the car you expect the model to be. Effortless, easy, nimble, capable.
The 2.5 on test drive was able, but under strain when accelerating on hills. The 2.5 is a fine vehicle if your driving is the suburban shuffle , as a capable versatile wagon , suburban driving , ready for the occasional holiday, great for an out of zone picnic- I would have picked it for the savings -car and fuel type.
The reality is - what did I need?
My drive includes frequent highway driving- passing trucks, overtaking 4x4 caravans, avoiding driver pullouts on hills, needing that torque at 2500rpm to escape driver error (mine and theirs), and sometimes I'm quite loaded. I do suburban also- work and back- but out of every month the majority of kms is mixing it with the milieu on the highway.
I have taken delivery of my 2023 Outback XT - it is the right car. Averaging 8.3l/100 as mixed suburban and highway kms so far. The XT is surprisingly fuel efficient.
I have become fast friends with my Subaru Outback XT.
Last car? Volvo V40 Cross Country D4 twin turbo. I loved that car. Thought I would regret this change. Not missing it at all. This feels like a bigger , more capable version of the same thing. Its a mix of my old XT Forester and the Volvo.
Maybe not for everyone- but great to have a choice.
Agree with the hippy comment! My first 'scrub basher' was an old L1800 wagon! Rusted to buggery but still had huge fun in it, particularly the gag when my older sister would get the gate, then my younger sister and I raced down the tracks conveniently forgetting her! A gag that never wore off!
I was bought up in a die hard Holden family and even myself am a Holden fan (or was anyway....) yet the first car I ever bought was a second hand Forester Columbia and drove it for many a years and asides from replacing the clutch no problems and enjoyed it hugely. My brother in law then bought it off me who has little to no mechanical sympathy and still would I believe it, running even with a touch of bearing knock.
When Holden was going to discontinue the Australian Commodore, I tried to convince dad to buy one to 'see him out', but the VF interior was a bit too suede for him and we had a 2010 VE SV6 that was ok but never seemed a 'complete' vehicle unlike previous Holdens we had which kind of bittered his view on Holden. So he went next door to the Subaru dealer, drove a base spec Outback and said it's all the car he needs.
So I upgraded after my Forester to an Outback 3.6r and my parents basically did the same and so to did my younger sister. I'd even go as far to say the 3.6r was a vehicle that could easily pick up the baton dropped by Commodores and Falcons or old, that beautiful velvet smooth atom grunt, the fact it goes like stink on the open road particularly overtaking, tows with ease, the fact it can run on 91 RON petrol and on that note the open road fuel consumption is amazing. Needless to say if they had the 3.6r new I'd have no problem upgrading if need be. I tried calling Subaru Australia and even told them my loyalty would suffer along with others, hugely because as you pointed out just buying another one of exactly the same vehicle and not thinking too hard about it, but that now isn't the case.
After your commentary, hmmm.... Half convinced I'll say, but call me old school, I do prefer atom engines, mainly ease of maintenance, I like how they feel and turbo care (being nice on start up and convincing my partner to cool the engine doen) is one less thing for me to think about. Brand loyalty is a no brainer for me, but I do sometimes think about what other brand I would buy if I 'wasn't allowed' another Subaru.
The jury is out, but for the meantime, I'll keep enjoying my 3.6r even with 170,000km and drive it into the ground!
Every visit to a Subaru showroom has the driving experience feeling like a spreadsheet on four wheels, and the dealership with as much passion as a date with an accountant.
Millions disagree. You don't feel as if you're about to die at any second, that's true enough, perhaps robbing you of some adrenaline. And that competence extends to driving at silly speeds, depending on the model.
Getting a Subaru onto 2 wheels would be anything but boring.
Not at my local dealer in Surrey, England. They sell Subarus, Lotus and McLarens, for some odd reason. Feels like buying and owning something special :).
You’ve been going to the wrong dealers😂
We offloaded our 2020 Forester Premium recently for a 2016 Kia Carnival Platinum, slightly less tech but a better driving experience (as a family car). Despite the touch surfaces the Forester 2.5 just felt benign in most aspects. The eyesight technology whilst helpful was intrusive, getting in to drive each time felt like a pre-flight checklist disabling several functions before commencing driving and the driving experience felt something similar to a auto Ford Meteor. We grew tired of the car pretty quickly and the 2.5i CVT combo had a lot to do with it.
Did the same with my 21 Forster sport, but stuck with the good guys for a 24 OBW. Consider me smitten.
I love my ‘21 Onyx XT … effortless as you said, never seems like it’s straining. The XT had the TR690 whereas the 2.5 has the TR580, different models, 690 can handle more power. Very happy with my decision to get the XT, runs quiet
Except it’s internals are made of chocolate
The TR690 is rated at 400Nm , the TR580 250Nm.
I’ve got a 2003 JDM Legacy 2litre twinscroll turbo Ej20 engine. Even with auto box, it’s great!👍🏼
Thanks John for your perspective. I’m also a bit of a Subie tragic, having had a 2.0D Outback, 2.5i Outback and currently a 3.6R. I’ve ordered a new 2.4T Touring for much the reasons you’ve outlined I.e. better midrange torque = easier and more relaxed driving.
A couple of other things I’ve noticed in perusing the specs…
1. The XT in Australian tune apparently required 95 RON fuel (the 3.6R is perfectly happy on 91 RON).
2. The rated fuel consumption is not much different between the 2.4T and 3.6R (all cycles) - it will be interesting to see what the “real world” fuel consumption is like on the 2.4T. But on the rated consumption and the requirement for 95 RON, potentially the XT will be a touch more expensive to run.
US tuning lets us use 87 AKI, I am getting around 24-25 mpg combined. Have to watch the acceleration because turbo will eat fuel like crazy. But didn’t buy turbo for the fuel economy 😝
Subarus have always had pretty poor fuel economy. Even the comparatively weak 2.4T will feel like a rocket compared to your 3.6. Enjoy
Nice, balanced, sensible, considered review. The torque’ push ‘ at low revs needs to be experienced to be appreciated
It's not about claimed peak torque, it's about the delivery and accessibility. Based on what John said, the 2.4 will feel much stronger in most driving conditions.
Placed my order for outback sports XT just before Christmas. No longer need 7 seater SUV kids all grown. This will be my 5th Subaru in 17 years.
Maybe Subaru should have a look at the work Turbo Yoda at The Skid Factory did to turbocharge a 3.6l H6 Liberty... It's on their youtube channel. In living colour.
I’d also add that (having owned VW group vehicles with DSG transmissions) I’ll take a CVT over a DSG for urban driving any day. The VW DSG lag, jerkiness and hesitation was infuriating, and not worth putting up with for the odd moment you could really give it the beans and let the DSG do what it’s best at
But you have to put up with the drone and the complete lack of character that CVT's bring. The only time i haven't liked DSG's is doing a reverse park up a hill. They are no good at that. DSG's are getting better all the time, so you can't rate them on something 10 years old.
DSGs are junk usually, the wet clutch VAG ones are reasonable after a reflash for the gear box though the VAG dry clutch and most others are crap.
Our under 2y old Subaru CVTs are rubbish on fuel usage, drive experience feedback and input reaction time.
@@kingjulian1549 The last one I had was a 2019 Tiguan 162TSi R-Line, so a new-ish one. To be fair it was a huge improvement over an earlier Skoda I’d had with a dry-clutch DSG, but still…….
Personally I don’t find that the Subie CVT drones much, certainly they do a far better CVT than Nissan or Mitsubishi, those are truly painful to drive
@@madmick3794 Are you mashing the right foot-trying to make it go as fast as you can or driving in a manner to achieve economy? CVTs reward economic driving with conservative modulated throttle inputs to keep the revs low as possible as much as you can..
@@derekharvey5257 They are not that much fun in the (in my opinion) underpowered vehicles like the 1.6l NA XV or the 2.0l NA Forester we get over here. Esp. the 1.6. If you are on an incline with a loaded up crosstrek, that 1.6l has to really put some effort into it, and it does not sound nice. I rather would not like to try out its 1400kg towing limit. ^^ But in my Forester XT, I find the transmission to be really pleasant. In normal daily driving, the engine seldom revs beyond 2000rpm. Mostly 1700ish. And barely any sound noticeable from the transmission beyond 20mph or so. They make a great driving experience in combination with turbocharged engines.
John thanks for explaining to others what exactly MID RANGE power is, for the record at the fly wheel the numbers are:
350Nm x 2,000rpm / 9549 = 73kW, at peak torque curve 350Nm x 4,400rpm / 9549 = 161kW, the 3.6L does not have that flat torque curve, at the bootm end of the torque curve (so 2,000rpm) the 3.6K only has approx 40% torque of max 350Nm which is 210Nm which at 2,000rpm = 44kW, the difference is 29kW which is huge when you factor in displacement and extra cylinders of the larger engine, it once again proves that snails (turbo-chargers) work in tremendous ways to enhance engine combustion efficiency without the need for larger displacement, the old saying might be "no replacement for displacement" but I'd rather say "BOOST is all you need".
Did we not learn anything for the old Group A Bathurst 1000 days?
Hey John, I love that you are more active than ever lately on Auto Expert. However, I remember subscribing to your other channel as well; Rant.
Any update or upcoming ideas on that one?
p.s The title of this report is from your previous one.
I am one of those you described who walk in and say I want a new Forrester, same as that one there. Well at least I took it for a test drive. test drive 2 April 2021, signed contract the same day, took delivery May 18th 2021. it has been the best car I have ever owned so far, but I do wish it had a turbo option though
I think that the approximation is that a NA petrol engine will lose approx 3% of its power for each 305m (1 000 feet) increase in altitude. So for us folk living in South Africa, more specifically Gauteng (previously known as the Transvaal), this 1 753m altitude results in a close to 33% loss in power.
1. Do you know what the equivalent loss would be for a petrol turbo engine, and specifically the Outback XT?
2. Is torque affected to the same extent?
3. As Gauteng is also pretty warm, and towing trailers or caravans is quite popular, these answers would be useful in the turbo vs NA discussions.
Test drove XT at dealer yesterday as dealer let met be satisfied I would be happy with all that extra power after ordering in October 2022. March 2023 delivery confirmed which is good considering only a 1 month longer wait than expected. The new 2.5 I picked up is going to son after his mother negotiated a tantalising deal with me. I think I got screwed over by my misses, but positive is Doncaster Subaru have been terrific. I like the few touch screen changes - heated seats, auto start/stop now a one tap process. XT does feel a little stiffer in suspension.
Bring back the Brumby !
Noticed on in traffic yesterday, so small compared to mew cars
I worked for a subaru dealer in 2003... I recon we go at least 1 enquiry on a brumby every week.... they stopped brumby production in prob 1995.
@@kimbland2614 I know.. I have 3 here in England, called an MV up here...
John you just told me everything i needed to hear. Cheers.
You were on fire in this one and perfectly down the middle. Funny funny man and oh so "professional"
I used to work in a used car yard and the valuations guy traded so many Subarus with blown headgaskets without checking the coolant and oil I reckon the Subaru forums were probably telling everyone to go trade it in with us and we will deal with the problem.
We are one of those rusted on Subaru fans, currently an Outback 2.5i and the new WRX with more or less the same 2.4 turbo as the Outback XT. Direct comparisons are difficult as the Rex is a manual, but it is the torque that makes the difference. Puts caravans in the rear view mirror much more quickly. which is always a good thing.
My dad had a Subaru 1.4 liter front wheel drive, when they first came to Australia, I use to love to drive that car. But he trade it in for a Datson 180B.
Love our 2021 Outback for it’s built quality, comfort and ride but yeh the 2.4T would be much better and I would have definitely purchased it if available at the time.
I wouldn't class myself as a Subaru tragic after being disappointed with the lower back crippling leather seats in my '03 Outback 2.5 manual but I decided to give them another go in 2015 with a 3.6R Outback. Best bang for buck at $50K (especially compared with the Euros) and probably the best car I have ever owned based on the fact that 7 years later I still have it and there doesn't appear to be anything for sale today that would justify the need to trade it. Normally I trade them when the warranty goes and something about the car ends up annoying me. Drive it gentle around town and I can manage 10L/100km, often gets down to 7L/100km on the highway (where it has done most of its driving), is freakishly smooth and doesn't require a heavy foot for traffic light getaways. And it runs fine on 91. The old saying "No replacement for displacement". I'd possibly look at downsizing to an XV in the future, but not until they put the 2.5L or another engine. The 2.0L is just not powerful enough to work with the CVT
Hate CVTs, but these newer outbacks really are a sweet ride, in fact one of the smoothest and most comfortable vehicles I've driven (but gutless). I ordered the XT touring yesterday, looking at April delivery unfortunately, but can't wait to hook up a 2.4T van with 240kg towball download and head off to dingo piss Creek, taking the rough back tracks too yeeeaaahhh!
not sure if this is still the case but in prior models Subaru specified a maximum speed of 80km/h when towing, set out in the handbook. This could make long distance towing impractical for many with our 100-130kmh speed limits.
I learnt alot watching your video! Own a Jeep Grand Cherokee, and looking at 2022 Subaru Outback 2.4l Turbo Sport
SH Forester. EJ 253. 300000km. Was thinking about another, but like manual transmissions. What a great car. Dogs like it too.
Yeah I had a 2016 Wrx and Did 220k then started having issues... no longer own it.. but a fair lot of kms seeing was heavily modded, massive intercooler on the front etc lol
My wife and I cross shopped Subaru vs others. We looked at the XT Forester vs Skoda Octavia RS in 2014. The Subaru out priced itself and didn’t even have rear air vents. Ended up with the Skoda. The Skoda hasn’t missed a beat. Plus we had a diesel forester and Subaru was not good to deal with.
Subaru has been on the decline for 10 years. I still love my 2013 BRZ but I doubt I’d buy another Subaru again. The new outback looks pretty good. I’m just surprised it’s not more powerful considering it’s capacity over its rivals.
Not sure if I am tripping John but this video is titled the best way to buy new tyres if you care about performance and safety.
If I am tripping I will buy you a, and maybe some "
Then I'm tripping too.
there seems to be a 'truth in title' problem.
I fucked up because: Senior moment...
@@AutoExpertJC an inflated comment 😁
I own an 2021 Impreza sport hatchback in manual transmission. I love the car with the exception of "Power" or lack there of.
Subaru currently is offering the WRX wagon in 6 speed manual transmission in ....... Mexico!!!! Subaru decide! Either sell the manual in the US "or" I'll buy Toyotas GR Corolla hatchback...
Here in the US Subarus aren't usually used for towing, it's going to be fascinating how their CVT's hold up down under where they may be used for towing.
And yes, I've seen seemingly normal human beings doing substantially heroic repairs on Subarus that they would never do with any other car. There's definitely something in the Kool Aid that makes Subaru owners sink ridiculous amounts of money and/or work into their cars and like it. If a Toyota owner blows a head gasket at 250,000 miles he'll junk the car. If a Subaru blows a head gasket at 100,000 miles, he'll tell you it's just normal maintenance. I don't get it.
Coming out of a 2013 Outback (which is supposed to be one of the worst years) , and 2024 Outback is on the top of my list. Trade in on my 12 year old car should be around 25% of original purchase price. Only "major" repair was the cat-back exhaust (I live in area where roads are salted in winter). Car has been solid... no squeaks or rattles over time. It's a family hauler with good safety ratings. The 2.5 non turbo is great if you are not driving around fully loaded all of the time, towing or live in the mountains.
Hi John, love the content. However, I would like to raise a point on atmo vs turbo engines. A lot of car reviewers (you included) keep saying that atmo engines make peak torque at 1 rpm, implying that they are gutless below that point, which is incorrect. If we take the 3.6R engine in this example, looking at the dyno curve it is making over 90% (over 315Nm) of its peak torque between 2000 - 5500 rpm. So while the 2.4 turbo engine will be quicker throughout the mid range (if it indeed stays flat at 350Nm between the quoted ranges and the turbo is big enough to keep boost for that long and small enough to spool up by 2000rpm) it is not night and day. Of coarse gearing and drivetrain losses come into play.
Similarly with the original BRZ. All the reviewers kept saying that the car made peak torque of 205Nm at 6400 rpm so you had to thrash it. But they forgot to mention that the car also made 200Nm at 3000rpm, only 2.4% less than peak. The issue was with the torque dip straight after.
A better metric would be 'average torque' over a 2000 range of RPM. eg 225Nm 2300-4300 RPM.
Exactly what I was going to post! I have a 2010 3.6 R, with the 5 sp automatic, and it pulls like a train from 2000 rpm onwards. The best engine Subaru ever made.
Two time Forester XT owner now returning to the Subaru fold for an Outback Sport XT. Better late than never!
Another great video, its why i keep comimg back, thanks John!
I really enjoyed that review. Thanks mate.
Hello from the USA . My Bud is an independent Tech that makes a fortune replacing Subaru head gaskets ....that's all he does .
He can do my 2004 Outback one then lol 😏
Head gaskets have not been an issue since the FB engine which is 11 years old. Must be a lot of old Subarus in your area.
@@fredintas6596 Correct. Although the NA EJ25 motors were notoriously bad and there's a lot of them.
worth noting that with the increased torque at a much lower RPM, it should, in theory, make the CVT drone less, less likely to have to pickup to 3k or 3.5k RPM in your highway situation so should translate to a more relaxing touring experience.
Went into the dealer to check out the new outback. Was going to place an order for the new 2.4T. 30mins later and no love from sales. So i wonder down to the used car section and test drove a 09 Levorg and randomly a 2018 CLA250... The CVT is was fine. Most wouldn't even realise it was different compared to a "normal" automatic. The CLA on the other hand was horrible. Nicer ride but the overly light steering plus random responding laggy throttle had me end the test drive early.
And the fact that (i think) it has to run on 98 - that fuel's extra price, (its a lot) plus the extra consumption should be taken carefully into consideration.
Slightly disappointed that we’ve not got the more aggressive styling of the US MY23.
And watered down turbo, no mono eye sight camera , no rear view camera also.
Couple quick questions about torque output.
I got a 1.6T Pulsar, i think its peak torque was like 2000 - 4000ish rpm.
Big 'BUT' though right. I put my foot down at this pandering 2000 rpm, notable turbo lag delays me.
To hit peak torque, u'd have to be at peak boost too yeah? The manufacturers i'm presuming are rev testing their engines right off the idle line to get these torque ratings, which isn't totally realistic to real-world driving.
Also, we love these peak flat line torque 'curves' right, but any engine naturally would have a torque output that arcs all the way from idle to peak revs.
The fact we get flat line torque graphs is purely cause they program a limit on the engine right, to A) save the drivetrain and B) create more drive comfort.
I'm pretty sure no aftermarket tuning petrol head would be bragging about his flatline torque graph, he'd just max out the engine with a 'mountain' curve, rip spinning his tyres up on the asphalt drag style, no?
Gen 4 3.0r Spec B owner here: if only it came out with the ty85 6mt.... I know we are a dying bread but there was something special bout the Gen 4 (2003-2009) Liberty/Outback's, could get any body shape with any engine/gearbox combination. Back when Subaru was all about the driver, Sadly the GFC/Toyota has turned Subaru into a shadow of its former self. Could still not see myself driving anything else than a Subaru though.
Well on the cvts.. my 75 year old mom has had two replaced in her 2014 2,5 Outback. Car has 71k on it.... Subaru just throws a new one in. Had guys come Japan to ok the replacements. It's from the classation lawsuit days that pushed the drive line warenty to 10 years or 100k in the USA.
Love your description of the early Subaru purchaser
In canukland the first cars in the ditch during a snow storm are usually 4wd.
I’m from the EU and I’m wondering how you can even have a 2.4 liter engine. You can buy the biggest SUV here and it will have something like a 3 cylinder 1.2 liter engine. EU simply won’t allow you to have anything bigger.
Thanks for the review of the power plant. Are we likely to see a review of the actual vehicle at some point? I'm another cool-aide drinker and am likely to be purchasing a new one in say June 23.
We needed it in the 2021
Nice chat about the Turbo Outback... but you need to correct the heading above
Done, duuuuude.
Riddle me this Prime Mincer, how is the future looking for Subaru when the entire automotive world goes EV? No more light weight sporty good handling Rex, no more symmetrical AWD, no more raucous exhaust notes letting you know it's a Rex. In fact all the things that make a Subie a Subie. Will life be worth continuing with?
Subaru so needs a 8 speed or 10 speed transmission. Or if there's an after market transmission , that would be nice. Those CVTs go no where fast Floored.
The biggest mistake Subaru has made is to drop the diesel variants. This is especially true for those wanting a ‘do it all’ suv. The outback and forester, though down on tow capacity, were great vehicles for those extended forays to dingo piss creek in a cheap ass tent.
I have a 2020 XV, it's my first Subaru. I tend to keep my cars for a long time as I do low kilometers and look after them pretty well. It is certainly an improvement on the 2006 Mitsubishi outlander I had prior to getting it, although that car ran for 15 years without missing a beat, I hope the Subaru is as good. I do have a peev with the car, I find the CVT has lag in slow traffic and I feel concerned about potentially getting rear ended. I am assured that it is normal, and CVT issues relate to older models only, but I still reckon the CVT is a week spot with the vehicle.
....weak spot.....
Just got my Forester 2.5i-S. So sad that there wasn’t an XT or wilderness available here yet
Very informative thanks John.
Fewer decent engine options, CVT and some key area cost cutting have definitely eroded what Subaru was and could be in Australia.
Enjoyed the talk John. But my Head still spinning with the figures, and putting some of graph onscreen would be nice
How much are you prepared to may me for the 3hrs that editing in the gfx would take?
Oopsy, wrong title?
he's nearly 60..
Lol
I was pooping my pants during 'upload'. So, downloading and uploading at the same time: Too hard.
Just watched, ad revenue for you, John, a commercial of a Husqvana little kiddies bmx bike bike with battery electric drive. Cool..
Kiddies now days, geeze they got good toys. When I was a kid, we only had one toy…Outside. At Christmas time, my Mum would cut the bottoms out of our trousers pockets so we would have something to play with, not to feel left out.
@@dougstubbs9637 We did the same in school as well, but we played with something else!
Interesting comments. I own a 2019 XV Sportos with CVT. No manuals available at point of sale time. I also worked in the detailing section of Autonexus Altona 2009-13. So I drove everything with a Subaru badge on it in that period. Prior to that I owned an 85 Subaru wagon we bought off my mother as she found it too heavy to drive. I’d much rather drive my XV CVT than the bosses VW Polo with its double clutch setup that’s got a very nasty all or nothing point of engagement. The XV is the best featured, safest car I’ve owned. It’s a bit gutless in summer off the line around town with the aircon on full bore. In the US you can get the XV/Crossover with a 2.4T which I think is a much better option- my opinion. The grovels were a baddy, especially tricky fitting the badges- don’t think they sold well. Diesel Foresters were brilliant, loved em and WRX Hatch manuals.
Levorgs no good?
I bet the XV is a blast with the 2.4T! For a long time, we only got it with the 114hp 1.6l NA. (Now also with the 2l eBoxer). With the CVT that thing is soo slow. ^^
The Crosstrek isn't available with the 2.4T in the USA. We can get the 2.0L and 2.5L. The 2.5L isn't available with manual transmission. Manual transmission isn't available here with sunroof either.
Hi John love your work what would your advise be looking at buying a new car subaru outback touring xt v mazda cx 60 any advice much appreciated. Mark
Yes very worth it❤
Why does the US XT have only 1587kg (3500 lb) towing capacity, yet the XTs we are getting have 2400kg? They are the same vehicles aren't they?
I worry about all the extra costs with the 2.4 Turbo vs the tried and true 2.5 NA.
Remember the Vortex? Subaru needs to make weird cars like this again
Totally. Subarus should be a bit ugly and weird. Otherwise buy a Mazda.
One of my 9 was actually 2 SVX's they almost had enough power to haul their very solid 2 tons around with the non interference 3.3 Lt Na motor
After owning the a WRX and Forester XT I have migrated mainly because of the styling
Honestly I am happy as a clam with the naturally aspirated 2.0 :) End of the day, it gets the job done.
You could answer every one of the questions by simply taking a test drive at your local dealership. But be careful, you are not going to want to give it back to the dealer. Questions answered.
Afternoon, John. :)
Big'
My 2011 3.6R 5EAT runs uber smooth at 170,000 miles (not km). Turbine smooth.
I m one of thoseonly Subaru people mainly WRX and Forester..no apologies..the final drive scenario of the new XT makes a big difference and you may like to add this in to your expose..love your work especially when its so factual not comedic 😂
hanks John a good view of the new engine , i drive a 2018 outback with the 2.5I , which i find it suits me for what is it used for , i have towed a trailer with a motorcycle on the back and found it did it with easy . i would buy another outback or forrester . great cars . cheers Steve/Geraldton
Will pre order one early next year , can't wait
Was all lined up to buy the turbo outback for ages, and it got delayed to the point of another lost sale for Subaru. Ended up buying a second hand outback 3.6 just to get the power needed for better towing & performance. Incredibly frustrating.
Subaru engines have not been known for their fuel economy, so I guess they're stuck with the CVT to make them half acceptable in that regard.
They're no Prius, of course, but there is nothing excessive given the size and weight and performance of the car and the AWD. Here are my records from my current 2008 Outback 2.5XT "EYESIGHT" (265 HP turbo, 5 speed conventional automatic) which I bought in May 2020. Average 9.3 l/100km (25.4 USMPG, 30.5 UKMPG) so far on 38000 km, best 7.9 (29.9, 35.9). The only time it's ever used more than 10.0 l/100km is when towing. Most of its time is spent at 110 km/h indicated on secondary 2-lane roads on typically 20-30 km trips, and I give it a good bit of right foot when indicated for overtaking on the typically short straights. My mum's 2.4l RAV4 on the other hand averages 11 l/100km driven under the speed limit by an octogenarian on straight flat Canterbury roads. www.fuelly.com/car/subaru/outback/2008/brucehoult/1005227
@@BruceHoult I drive my 2016 Forester XT with about 8.6l/100km (calculated at the pump, dashboard is 8l or so) for the 70000km I own it. I find that very reasonable. When I am in rural areas with no Autobahn or city traffic, it is even better. In Scandinavia with the lower speed limits, I had tanks with a 7.0l/100km average. Not bad for a brick on wheels with a 2l turbo engine I think.