Infant Salvation Causes These Theological Riddles (CONJECTURE WARNING): The Mark Series pt 36
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2024
- Teaching that all babies who die go to heaven immediately brings up a number of important theological questions.
Question Time Stamps for Quick Reference:
0:00 Introduction
1. 5:10 How do we determine when a person is accountable?
2. 11:52 What role does sin nature have?
3. 19:00 What role does Jesus have in their salvation?
4. 20:53 What about free will?
5. 43:53 Does this give people an excuse to commit abortion?
All this and more in today's follow-up study looking at the theological implications of saying that babies or anyone who is similarly handicapped in mental capacities are saved.
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Question Time Stamps for Quick Reference:
0:00 Introduction
1. 5:10 How do we determine when a person is accountable?
2. 11:52 What role does sin nature have?
3. 19:00 What role does Jesus have in their salvation?
4. 20:53 What about free will?
5. 43:53 Does this give people an excuse to commit abortion?
Molinism reminds me of Arminianism.
If babies going to heaven is an excuse for abortion, it is also an excuse to kill babies and toddlers.
Shawn Cahill LOL!!!! ❤️😆😁😁😁🎉
Im more comfortable to the concept that each individual is held accountable for his/her action. Every baby is clean from sin, until they're sinned themselves.
Thank you Pastor Mike for tackling these tough questions because these are the tough questions that atheists and agnostics ask.
This was helpful as well as convicting...
Thank you.
My wife & I have lost several babies and we appreciate your discussion about the sin nature. Thanks
I'm sorry for your loss! We've lost one and it was incredibly difficult to overcome. What makes it worse are the careless comments that others make trying to "help". People, even Christians, don't realize how hard it is. Having another doesn't "replace" the lost baby.
I'm sorry for your loss. If it helps, I can tell you that I can personally relate. Both from a miscarriage and as one that must live with the haunting memory of having paid for an abortion because "it was the right thing to do". So I thought. So please keep that in mind when I ask... would you have appreciated the discussion as much and in the same way if Mike had come down with a position that all were condemned because of the sin nature or at the very least we simply can't say because God doesn't?
@@roycevanblaricome634 Have you had one born healthy and watched them die anyway?
@@SteveChavis - Given that you've called me a depraved toddler when you inserted yourself into another discussion wasn't yours to butt into I don't see why I should bother trying to have one with you. Just as I don't see how that's remotely relevant to the question I asked you.
But I do think most know what the answer would be.
@@roycevanblaricome634 you don't know so much, there really is no need
I'm sorry to make so many posts here, but, I want to share here that part of the salvation of my daughter was knowing that her lost baby was in Heaven and her desire to be with him. My daughter was quite a severe drug addict and would not talk with me about God. I had had her in several rehab centers as well as just mental health facilities in her very young life but nothing ever seemed to work. Then, she wound up pregnant. I was terrified. I began praying for that child like crazy. I knew my daughter was still hooked though she swore she had quit for the baby. You can tell. Then I had to take her to the ER. After we got back home, she asked me to stay with her and that's when she told me, "I have to make sure I get to Heaven now so I can be with my baby."
It thrilled my heart to hear those words for, while my grandchild was gone, I knew I'd be with them both now in eternity. This was another big step in her salvation. I've never seen someone saved so incrementally before. Her's was a process, probably because of the mental illness and drug addiction.
She now has a gorgeous little girl and we spent this Easter together going to church and eating dinner with the family. I got that baby the biggest basket of goodies! LOL! God is SO good!!
P.s. I too lost a baby. I miscarried before i had this daughter. I know that son is in Heaven. I had trouble having my babies but have them I do. Another daughter and a wonderful son. They are so very precious to me. And now a granddaughter and a grandson! Is it possible for God to get any better? He has blessed us to such a degree and I KNOW I am as filthy rags. And next is Eternity!! Our Father knows how to love us!!
Inspiring comment. God is good. All the time.
Marvelous testimony - thanks for sharing it !!
Yes, unique. I remember being aware of my sins at age 5. Of course it was not full awareness but, I started then to seek obedience to the Lord and I learned the 10 commandments before the first grade. I was stunned that other children did not seem to be aware. So, I think is is very unique to each person.
Mike, thank you for this! This is one of the reasons I'm not going to the Missouri Synog Lutheran Church that I joined when I married my late husband. I've had discussions with the pastor about this (arguments). He doesn't like to "say" that unborn babies are lost, but he said, "You have to hear the gospel to be saved" but how old does your soul have to be for the Lord to speak to the baby in the womb? Also, he told a couple that traveled to India to adopt a small child, to have him baptised before they left the country, in case the plane crashed & they died, that way the baby would be saved. Also, they're replacement theology, I wasn't sure, but once I figured it out, that was it for me. Pastor actually said in a sermon, "there is NO millennium". (Sorry I got off the subject, had to vent a little)
wow! my husband was raised Missouri synod and he used to cry telling me that un baptized babies went to hell
i have since got him away from this but i've never heard the no millennium belief. I haven't listened to the first one but what i know is Romans 5:13 to me clearly states babies don't go to hell.
Mike, God has used these two videos in a way that has been incredibly healing and comforting to me. I have lost several nieces and nephews in miscarriage. I have never heard good pastoral answers (our fellowship teaches the need for infant baptism as creating faith by the gospel in the word). My views on these things have been shifting, though. The answer on this topic has been something like "we don't know, but God is good and merciful"...
I am sitting here in tears and wrecked. I have had lots of grief in my life that has not been fully processed and God is healing something in me today. Thank you for preaching the gospel and grace in a beautiful, biblical manner.
I now have better answers for the hurting and grieving on this topic.
As for conjecture, the way you handle this is the only way I can see handling this for a mixed audience of believers. I am thankful you state your case and things the bible says and present others views in your teaching throughout the videos I have seen from you.
Also, just catching up on the Mark series, I am stunned at God's timing even as I catch up- that some of your Spirit led prayers (some that at times barely touched on the topic of the video, not always but occasionally) have been precisely what I needed to bring before the Lord at the time and He answered them beautifully.
He is so good. He gave you a pastoral heart as well as a teaching gift and I am thankful that he is using you to touch so many lives.
Your thoughts on abortion as well, so spot on, may God have mercy.
God bless and keep you, brother. :) Angela
Mike, thanks for bringing up the situation of aborted children. I have always believed that the situation that sends them to heaven is a great evil, but that God can truly "overcome evil with good' as he commands us to do.
Yes this is a great question. I aborted my baby almost 9 years ago because my ex husband threatened to leave if I didnt. My ex husband obviously left me anyway and unfortunately the abortion had left a massive mark on my heart. I am greatful for Christs forgiveness as I repented of this and I hold on to the hope that my son or daughter is in heaven enjoying themselves.
@@Mumoffive2023 dear Sarah, for sure you baby is in heaven and you will see him or her . I lost three of my six babies, two in early miscarriage and one just after birth. I named the third one Benjamin because he was the last one of my children. I believed that I would see them in heaven and sought prayerfully to give the other two names, one whom I believed was a girl, I named Dove, because of the Holy Spirit , and saw later that one of the three daughters of Job was called Jemimah which means dove. (Job 42:14)
I asked the Lord what is the name of the third one, which I believed was a boy, and it seemed to me that I heard the name Ami. 'Ami’? I asked the Lord, ‘like friend in French’? ( I am French). But I heard, AMMI with to M’s. So, quite puzzled, I wrote down Ammi. And left it at that.
Some time later, many months , I came across the name Ammi in Hosea 2:23 meaning "You are my people" NIV, or "Now you are mine" ( living Bible). I was bowled over….
Also after I named Benjamin. And was in great grief about his loss, I found in Deuteronomy 33:12, 2 weeks after his death « About Benjamin, he says, « Let the beloved of the Lord rest secure in him, for he shields him all day long, and the one the Lord loves rests between his shoulders. » In the living Bible which was the one I was reading at the time, « He is beloved of God and lives in safety beside him. God surrounds him with his loving care, and preserves him from every harm » . You can imagine the comfort I received from the Father.
Another scripture comes to my mind, 'there is hope for your children, they will come back from the distant land of the enemy…..' so be encouraged Sarah and all who lost babies.
Hey, Mike: I really liked the "what if" scenarios you played out in this video. I think it helps others that are struggling with the same types of questions and ideas. Sometimes my brain takes a left turn and I need help seeing the "fault" in the direction that I'm taking. Please keep it up. When all else fails.... God is in control!
Hey Mike, I was pleasantly surprised that you covered all of the unproven ideas I have had about the death of the innocent. We lost our fourth baby and so my wife and I obviously have discussed some options that God might have done with our baby. We believe we will see them again and don't know the details, but we are excited to find out when we die or the Lord returns. God bless and thanks.
Hey Mike! Appreciate your ministry and definitely appreciate your thought and care going into a topic with so much Biblical uncertainty. I find it helpful, most of all, to hear you unpack what conjectures are biblically invalid and to hear a willingness to discuss the unknown while trying to stay as grounded in Scripture as possible. God bless you, brother!
I enjoy the conjecture. I find it meaty. Gives me something to chew on all day and keeps me grounded in my faith.
Incredibly impactful, Pastor. Thank you. I heard the words of The Lord in this teaching.
It was super helpful to hear all the different views on what happens to children when they pass. But I love your first point that when we are unsure of all the answers- TRUST GOD’S GOODNESS!!! ☺️🎉
Big hugs from Tenerife Mike... God bless you and keep on going using you. What a wonderful way of teaching. The Holy Spirit guides you.
Pastor Mike please do this more!
I appreciate you walking us through conjectures in a biblical fashion. We all do this anyway, what could be better than to do it in an informed way with all the options laid out clearly?
Thank for for affirming what is clear and giving us room to think where the answer is unclear. It's more human-like to hear you say, "we don't know, but here are some ideas" :)
This was very beneficial! Different theologies within Christianity have evolved over time and it often leaves me scratching my head saying “who’s right and how do we know? CAN we know?” I appreciate the thought process even if we end up in the weeds!
Thanks Mike! Your teachings are always helpful. I agree with you about 99% of the time 😀
That very wise to keep in mind, we all need to have a few percentage for our own healthy skepticism and biblical study.
This theological trail has been a real joy!
May the Lord bless you and your ministry❤️🙏❤️
You are a true blessing to God and appreciate everything you do for all who want to know more about the word of God in detail. Thank you!!!
Really appreciate you making a video about conjectures! It's helpful to think through these issues. Would appreciate more topics like this. Thanks!
And welcome, Sarah!
You are such a blessing. I thank God for leading me to your teachings and for the abilities he has trusted you with.
Good stuff! I’m in agreement with you. Lots of nuggets for me in this teaching God bless you Mike
Wish you would make a series on eschatology "things still to come" would love to hear your teaching on this topic, as I am also premillenial.
Amen to that. If you find anything eschatological by Mike , I would want to watch also. I was thinking of going on his page to ask. I always thought premillennialism was the most popular view, until I left WoF and ran into determinist Calvinism, which kinda necessitates a post millennial view... Mikes work has been a refuge to help me sort through both WoF and Calvinism...
Me too!!
Me too! I have a son that has become a strong calvinist, and since he's much younger than I, he must be right! Please explain the premillennialism view as well as the post millennial view and why the Calvinists choose to believe it. Thank you for all that you do, Mike, you've solve a lot of Biblical issues for me!
Just FYI, I found two Q&A videos where mike was asked this question. He said someday but probably not for a long time as eschatology is not high on his priority list. I did my own study on pretrib, but it was not nearly as in-depth as I would like and also I would want confirmation from a trusted student of the Word who is not coming from either a dominionism or determinism perspective...
Lori Wilson calvinists are evil heretics who say that God is the author of sin
Goodmorning Ptr. Mike,
I highly appreciated your case Study how you approach this Biblical Case of Infant Salvation.
1. We Can prove his/her Moral Accountability
2.His/her Sinful tendency still not manifested
These are The Elements of The case The suggest that probability
Is Strong and leaning towards The Salvation View.
Godbless to your Ministry.... 🤓
Keep it up and Continue to Shade light some Gray Issues...
Goodbless again... 🤓
I enjoy pondering and conversing about these unknowable things; they help round out my faith and give me something to answer those who ask
5:10 timestamp: I started praying and reading the Bible at age 8. When I was 12, I did something bad that sent me to Hell! While I was falling in fire, I was held accountable for being mean to my little brother when I was 5 years old! Luckily God pulled me out and I apologized to my brother and asked for forgiveness! I know it sounds weird but it was a real experience. When I was age 4, 5 & 6 I was sneaky and lied to avoid punishment and was well aware of what I was doing and was held accountable for it all! Make sure your little ones know the punishment of sin.
I absolutely love the conjecture and would totally appreciate more videos with a similar style behind them.
Hi Mike! This was SUPER helpful for me. I was struggling to settle with infant salvation that you carefully explained with Scripture in your last video. It was helpful for me to learn some alternate views that allow me to rest in not knowing the answer until I can ask Jesus in heaven. Although I greatly appreciate your typical content that is pulling directly from Scripture, learning about some alternative ideas that fit in the Biblical view to questions that we can’t answer help me to keep an open mind and hold these ideas loosely but also be okay with not knowing how it all works.
Mike, I've watched you for awhile and have never said thank you for what you do. Enjoy learning from you , thank you.
Awesome video. Very grateful for your ministry. God's been quite generous to us all by gifting us with yet another humble teacher. Keep up the fantastic work! God bless :)
I like the conjecture format a lot!! I think it holds my attention better.
Opps didn’t mean to post so fast. You have cleared up many views for me and I love walking through the Word. I live in Texas and go to a great conservative Bible teaching church. God bless you and your ministry and keep it up!
Thank you for covering this topic in such a complete way.
Thank you for all your work, Brother Mike!
I really really liked this teaching, it caused me to really hash out my beliefs and why I hold certain beliefs and discard others. It helps also to give a fresh and more in depth view to scriptures I already know.
Thank you so much, Mike! This is a much-needed blessing of truth and encouragement!
God loves loves loves! Children! That is all you can see in the gospels! And gives warnings too those who hurts them and God's people.
Hi mike I found you channel through brad from Carolina and I'm really enjoying your teachings very insightful thx for that:)
When I was very young I always thought my mom was the smartest, the wisest person and was never wrong. Some point during my childhood, i dont remember the exact year or exactly what had happened,but my thoughts about my mother being the wisest, and smartest person had changed. Something had happened and at that moment I knew my mother was wrong and after all was not the smartest or most wise person and that she could be wrong. I think it was at that moment I kinda grew up a bit, not full maturity but I think at that moment I had accountability. So yes I agree with you i think there is a moment in our lives when we become accountable.
Hi Mike, I really love and appreciate all your teaching, I would say all of which falls within my belief, so appreciate your expansion and explanation in making it biblically clear and concise. Thank you 😊 from South Africa 🇿🇦
"I love all you said..All of which falls within my belief"...
The reality why protestantism keeps multiplying. The bible already foretold this "the time will come when people will not endure to sound teaching but having ITCHING EARS they will accumulate teachers to suit their own liking" - 2 Tim.4:3
I love this !! I have always struggled with this thought that babies 👶 sinned
I love being able to talk like this ans it does help me learn and think biblically
Mike you truly are a blessing and an inspiration to me, keep up the great work brother
Thank you Mike. Thank you so much for affirming what I've always felt about children if they die under the age of accountability will...will go to heaven. I been teaching scripture fit around 25 years and I've of the things that sometimes comes up is...what about children from other religions. It's not their fault the haven't been taught about Jesus. And I teach them...All children go to heaven, yes even Muslim, Hindu, atheists children etc...excellent teaching. Warms my heart.
You asked if this was helpful. I think, the fact that you were clear that this was conjecture makes this very helpful. This is not you using your influence to talk someone into believing something. This is a place to start one's research. Like me... I had, of course, on some level, considered this topic before but not to the degree of other topics. Now that I have watched this, I am able to take all the points you brought up and go research them myself to see what I believe. It is a good place to start... and I believe God is all about providing those for anyone willing to search for the truth. Thanks for saying yes when God calls you, Mike. You are a blessing.
Very clear and very helpful especially about the babies coming to life in the millennium that equates with reincarnation. Thank you.
A few years ago I had a miscarriage. I was only 6 weeks pregnant, but I was devastated. I wanted to name my baby so I asked the Lord to tell me my baby's gender. The following Sunday at church, the Lord gave me a vision of my baby. He looked 9 months old and was radiating peace and joy. I had such inner peace after this gift that Jesus granted me, a ten second look at my son instead of just answering me about his gender. I was hoping I would have a daughter, so this vision was not my imagination, it was real. A few weeks later I came across a video from Mary K Baxter, and when she had a vision of heaven, she was shown what happens to a baby that is aborted or miscarried , and in her vision she saw an angel take the baby's soul before the Lord, and given a heavenly body that looked 9 months old, and then they grew up in heaven and attended a heavenly school. She also saw a 5 year old boy who had died enter heaven. That video explained why my son looked 9 months old when he would have only been a 7 week old fetus when I was given the vision of him. I believe that all babies and small children automatically go to heaven when they die, regardless of their race. And I believe that a woman who aborts her child can be reunited with their child in heaven if they give their lives to Jesus.
This is incredible. Great job.
I like this "here are the various options" format.
Love you Mike, thanks for you work
I enjoy the conjecture, would love to see more!
It is a benefit Mike, thank you!
This way of surveying scripture is helpful for me in many of your topics. I think when you teach all sides of the story, remove your opinions, and go directly to God's word it helps me to think more biblically in many areas of my life. No other religion can be validated by standing next to every other possible claim, truth begets truth.
Great study!!
Very interesting! I recall seeing somebody ask if abortion is now okay on your video about infant salvation. The Bible has a very strong passage for this question in Exodus 20:13
Thank you mike. This topic must be hard on you. I think you done a more than a great job. Thanks again
I really like how you handled this and would be open to see more if a) the video of conjecture is separate from the video of theology and b) the topic logically comes from another topic you've covered (ie you just don't start doing them becasue you feel like it). Under these two scenerios, I see these types of videos as helpful.
This is an enjoyable journey.
Thanks Mike.
I agree. I just told my none believing sister that all babies go to heaven. She seemed to like that.
thanks Mike for the video and God bless you. 😊 And i think that probabily you need to do other video on this topic. 🤔
Welcome Sarah!!
Another informed video
I believe exactly like you explained Mike
In stuff like this understanding "ad hoc" is very helpful.
You say the phrase right before 44:00
Maybe I missed it, since I had to pause several times as I watched this, but my guess was that Calvinists would say some babies were elect and some weren’t and God still gets the glory. That it has nothing to do with them and that we should leave out our emotional sensibilities. Also that Molinists might argue that God knows what those babies would have believed or lived like had they not died before the age of accountability. I personally believe God does know all of the things that would have happened, so I could see how God would have still been able to judge babies as he does adults, because God knows the heart. I think this might be consistent with how God has made it possible for only those that want to be with him in heaven to be saved, but I can also see how it would be justice also for God to grant salvation for those innocent lives that didn’t get the opportunity to make that decision on this side of eternity. Maybe David had revelation that he would see his baby one day, but might not be descriptive for how all babies will go to heaven. I think I need to hear the first video on this again and consider it some more. At the end of the day I rest trusting in God’s goodness, mercy, love and justice.
Well said!! "At the end of the day I rest trusting in God’s goodness, mercy, love and justice." THAT IS EXACTLY what should be said and ALL we ever really need to say. Conjecture is fine for us to do as we try to reason out what God has said BUT when it comes to the place where God has chosen to remain silent, and that is clear, then we MUST go back to resting on just what you said because THAT we all can and should know.
I have often wondered how Calvinists deal with this. Most I have seen just cop out and say that all babies are saved despite their theology stating the opposite. *cough* John Macarthur *cough cough*
Saying that some babies were "elect" when they die, and so go to heaven, and others aren't and go to hell for the "glory of God"....Does our God truly need babies in hell in order for Him to be glorified? Does that match the picture of Him in scripture?
And what does that do to election? Now you have some elect to die before knowing Christ and the rest to die after they come to know him right? So when is a Calvinist saved? When they were elected before the foundation of the world or when they accepted Christ? When were they actually in a state of forgiveness of sins? If you're saved at election does that mean you lived a sinful life but were "somehow" saved while doing it until the appointed time of giving your life to Christ? That seems ridiculous.
Or were you elect and providentially kept until the point in your life you would submit to Christ? But wouldn't that mean that all those who never reached that point were not elect and so perish in their sins...i.e. all babies are in hell....i honestly would like a calvinist opinion as I have been wondering what they think. I think a sure sign of bad theology is when it is obviously inconsistent.
Personally, I think the Bible teaches an age of accountability. Young children die before being able to willfully break God's law and so they have no moral sin before Him. Their sinful nature, what the new testament calls the flesh, was provided for on the cross. We were born into the flesh with no fault of our own, so though we struggle with it, I believe Jesus has overcome the gap it causes between us and he does not hold it against us. It is the moral sin of man that we must repent of and submit to Christ to be rid of.
This is why calvinism is totally absurd...
Helpful!
This was good thank you
Over all I agree with what was here. The only issue I would raise is David. In point 4 you say David's expectations to see his son is why it should be expected. That is well grounded, but not because David though so. You might even want to say that is David's hope, not assurance. I think David just trusted God to be Good & he knew his son had done no wrong, even if he, David, had.
So, I think you are right about David, just not for why you said. God is Good, therefore he wouldn't allow the innocent child to suffer for David's sin. David knew that, but David's belief isn't why.
Great teaching.
Mike, another argument against the ‘eternal nursery’ view is that that only accounts for the children, but what about those adults that are severely mentally impaired but still saved. Would they then have to remain in that state also?? And as you mentioned- we are all given new bodies and are healed- so obviously not!
Great to hear you work through all the theories. It certainly becomes quite obvious those theories that are just not plausible when you work through them thoroughly. Thanks for being a blessing, as always 🙏🏼 Glory to God 🙌🏼
Two years later, just finding this. I was surprised not to see my view: people with free will only choose to reject God because they don't want to give up their sin or they dont believe in God. Of COURSE an infant with no sin to cling to will ALWAYS choose God.
Love it!
This is clearly answered when Jesus told us to be like the little children. If there was something wrong with them or something they need to overcome He wouldn’t have told us to imitate them.
It’s fruitful in my opinion!
Just wanted you to know I found this insightful
Ok, this one dude I used to listen to, because he is obviously very learned, had a lot to say on this topic. But, when he said all this, I had to severely question his conclusions. He said that, when babies or anyone with diminished capacity dies, they lie in waiting until the 1000 year reign. During that time, all these people are revived and are THEN given the opportunity to choose. They do this without the interference of satan since he is bound.
good thank you
Mike you forgot about other calvinists teaching that there are un-elect babies in hell. And covenant theology teaching that babies in a covenant family are saved.
Very useful and impactful... a lot of things i read and researched on when i started to question just made me horrified, i thought to myself “christians actually believe this? God actually feels this way?” and for a moment i kind of went down into an abyss of depression, despair and fear about existential issues about the world. Some things that some christians believe me made me wonder how they aren’t fearful of even bringing children into the world. Especially calvinists. Also, the augustinian view of sin nature always sat wrong with me.. it’s sad that it’s so popular. Thank you for you, Mike. I wonder if you could do a deep dive into what is the correct way of understanding Sin Nature?
Diz Estah - Diane Estella. I had an adult Sunday School teacher say to us, You can't say if something is going to happen (this will happen or that will happen). You can't say if because if didn't happen. Babies can't refuse to receive Jesus's forgiveness if they die before that can decide to sin or cognitively disabled people die not being able to sin with accountability and don't know how to receive Jesus's forgiveness. I think that these reasons give babies, children who aren't old enough to be accountable and people cognitively disabled people at any age, when these babies, children and other aged people die not being accountable, and not being able to know how receive Jesus's forgiveness, go directly to Heaven because God probably won't say, "He knew the decision they would have made regarding salvation if they grew up to be old enough to understand sin and old enough to understand to receive Jesus's forgiveness, because we can't say if they grew up because "if" never happened. At least "if" didn't happen while they died before they did live to the stage of accountability. As for as cognitively disable, and unable to understand sin and unable to understand how to receive Jesus's forgiveness, these reasons may give them access to going to Heaven. As far as choosing to having a relationship with Jesus after they die, I'm not sure. These people probably have a desire to have a relationship with their mothers, fathers and other guardians. I'm thinking the moment they meet Jesus after they die, they will want to choose to have a relationship with Jesus. Aborted infants probably can sense a relationship forming before they are aborted and probably would want a relation ship with Jesus when they die. Babies are human beings the moment of conception. So they are real human beings. I can't see why an aborted baby wouldn't want to have a relationship with Jesus right after they die. This is a very good video as well as the first video about infants going to Heaven when they die.
I appreciate the conjectures. Having other viewpoints stated, especially those that are not totally rooted Biblically, causes me to scrutinize my own views more thoroughly. I desire to be as doctrinally sound as possible.
We have lost nine little people prematurely. I have known since the very first that they were saved, because God have me the very Scriptures you quoted the day he died, even though I had not yet asked the question. Since then, I have always believed that they would be allowed to make their choice during the Millennium. But as you started discussing the other views I had this sudden thought that that might put them in "double jeopardy" because they have already died once and then you mentioned that scenario lends itself to the idea of reincarnation. So, now I don't think I can't hold that particular view anymore. You mentioned that there were no other places outside of heaven and hell; would Abraham's bosom be appropriate or was that merely a temporal holding place until the time of Jesus? Or perhaps I misunderstand that reference altogether.
“Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.”
Ephesians 4:31-32 ESV
Follow the perfect example of Christ. Allow the Spirit to guide you and produce the fruits of the Spirit (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control). And be reminded of how good God has been to you. Just as He has shown us endless love, grace, mercy, compassion, and forgiveness let us look to show those things to others. And never forget how much we have to be thankful for every day. It is in giving thanks to God that we remind ourselves of who He is and what He has done. Hopefully this helped and encouraged you today. God bless you!
I agree with you. Babies infant cannot count the cost. They cannot reason and what exactly are they suppose to repent of? Crying too loudly, crying through the night, sleeping all day? To me that's a no brainer. There is a scripture in Isaiah that talks about little children leading animals in the kingdom of Christ. Thank you again for such great stuff
How do you KNOW they can't count the cost or reason? John the Baptist evidently could while he was still in his mother's womb. And I'd like to know what that Scripture is so I can look at itl.
I always wonder if my son who died shortly after birth is in heaven. They baptized him before he passed but I have always felt it odd that infants/children wouldn’t go to heaven. God is good and I know that he has my son
Thinking they are in relation with God As the quote" I knew in the womb"
This is my theory that doesn't have really any scriptural backing, but I love it because it seems like a beautiful idea: When babies die, they do go to Heaven, and they are given new bodies and minds, but those bodies and minds are still infantile or match the development they were at when they died (i.e. toddlers). They grow up in Heaven, and their whole life experience and memories are in Heaven. As I believe that God will give us work to do in Heaven, albeit perfect work, I've always wondered if some people will help raise children in Heaven, either Christian parents who lost their babies will still get to be a parent to them, or they will be adopted by other Christians. I've thought that a book about growing up in Heaven would be really cool to write. Thanks for the good info, Mike.
This was very fruitful ❤❤❤🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
Bert Clendenen said while rapture happens those kids will be taken to heaven which parents are saved and ready...that brings another bunch of angles to the topic
We are moving back to so called Nov from tx so we will be close to your church
I have also been questioning the idea of a "sin nature;" I don't see it in Scripture; Romans 5:12 says we inherited death from Adam, not sin, and certainly not original sin; therefore, absent an inherited sin nature, we are all the more culpable for our sin, because we have no one to blame but ourselves for our own choice to sin
There is no scriptural support for the Lutheran/Calvinist doctrine of Original Sin (i.e. imputation of Adam's sin/guilt to and the inheritance of Adam's 'sin nature'). The early church believed infants were born innocent. It was only after infant baptism was introduced that a doctrine of original sin was invented to support the practice.
The doctrine of Original Sin is a plain contradiction of Ecclesiastes 7:29. What Scripture clearly shows is that human sinfulness arises during one’s youth (Genesis 8:21; Jeremiah 3:25) and that children must reach a certain level of maturity before they are able to make moral choices between good and evil (Isaiah 7:15-16). Furthermore, since the human spirit is not inherited from one’s parents; rather, but is given to each person individually by God (Ecclesiastes 12:7; Hebrews 12:9), it is unreasonable to suppose it is any less pure at conception than the source from whence it comes.
What has passed down to us from Adam is the collateral consequences of Adam's sin. This is no different than if you or I were to be convicted of a crime and imprisoned for it; we would be punished but our dependents would also suffer as a result. What Adam’s descendants inherited from Adam as a result of his sin was his mortality and what they lost was access to the Tree of Life.
As usual pastor Mike, your teaching is well delivered. I hope that people would stop baptizing enfant and instead teach them the Bible and let them make the decision to choose God.
Hello, Mike. Still, I'm am unable to fully agree or otherwise. Mainly due to the fact that, to your point, "it is conjecture". And this is my point of contention. There are topics in the Bible without certain clarity, and this being one of them. I often get questions dealing topics like this one in my Bible studies. My answer is: "I don't know". This is not as a cop out, but because there is no way to properly use the inductive method to present a sound argument or a robust theology. Still, the topic is entertained during in the after-study fellowship. Which is a great time for heated debates regarding deductive affairs.
Generally dont like conjecture, unless there is some background in scripture. This was helpful only because it outlined some thought of people out there.
Mike, I neither agree or disagree. All i say is this, God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. Why do people create doctrine where scripture is silent? Why do we assume that babies do not have faith? John leaped in the womb and even Christ says" do not hinder the children from coming to me". I always enjoy your teaching Mike
the first person to have faith in Jesus came from Elizabeth's womb :)
@@catholicguy3436 I'm going to say the first person was probably Mary
Why assume John lept because he had faith? It seems very implausible that he mysteriously felt Jesus' presence through two wombs. More likely God caused him to leap as a sign to Mary and Elizabeth.
@@TheRealMonnie Thank you, but I like my answer better ; )
@@TheRealMonnie mary had faith in God the Father's plan for her.. But scriptures tell us John lept when Elizabeth heard Mary's voice. Of course God made John lept because faith is a product of grace coming from God! In catholic theology faith is not something innate in us but rather faith, together with hope and love, is a product of grace working in us. When we receive grace and cooperate with it, it will manifest through our faith, hope, and charity.
Yes I think infants or those who have not came to the "Age of Accountability" yet will be saved or shielded from the judgement. I had this question for you. Since Jesus spoke in both a Physical and a Spiritual manner what was the Physical and Spiritual meaning of the Fig Tree Jesus cursed in front of his Disciples and why did he curse it?
32:55 This is Dennis talking about the "implication" hahah
25:49 "God just chooses for them"; "The abandonment of proper parenthood if we don't make good decisions for them that are in their best interest": This is an excellent argument FOR infant baptism. In Colossians 2: 11-12, Paul explains that Baptism is the new Circumcision, and parents circumcised their sons on the 8th day of life because God commanded them to and because they knew that it was for their own good and in their best interest. If God said that circumcision was good for infants, and baptism is the new circumcision, then isn't it reasonable to conclude that infant baptism is good and legitimate? Food for thought
I believe the use of the word “baptism” in the scripture you have quoted is symbolic for the death of the flesh, the dawn of a new creation. In verse 11 it says “ with the circumcision made without hands” the context is talking about the salvation through grace, to say it’s about a physical baptism would be to include the use of your hands.
Mike, you always have excellent teachings...but... could you please speak on what's going on in the world today and how it may fit in Bible prophecies.
I have little discernment when it comes to trying to explain current events as fulfillment of biblical prophecy. I suspect that a lot of the teachers who try to do this are stretching things. Sorry I can’t be a better help. I don’t know the day or the hour and so it’s hard to interpret current events as if they are directly leading to that day and hour. I wish I had better help than to advise caution but that’s all I’ve got.
I think you are just awesome
My mum lost 2 baby’s at birth and was told the lie that her babies were lost and it killed her inside Anyone that can say to a mother and father that have lost a child just kills me inside my Jesus my God will never do that
He is a good good father
When my grandson was born, I said to him, Fresh from Heaven and he smiled.
Yes! Working all things for good to those who love the Lord! EVEN the evil inclinations of people. Amazing. But, then, isn't God amazing.