Working on our Buick Straight 8 again | Redline Update #42
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2020
- It's been a while since we made any progress on our Buick Straight 8, but we found a lost episode of Davin visiting Thirlby's before the quarantine. Mark goes through the process of cleaning up our head as Davin shows us how to measure for compression in the head. Hopefully, we can start working on our Buick again soon.
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The detail you put into these is second to none. The rare engines you take the time to rebuild the right way is incredible! Davin is a genius and an artist. Truly love this channel!
If Hagerty were a school teacher we'd have the smartest kids on Earth. What an incredible job of explaining what we're seeing. Awesome job as always, love this channel.
Thanks for the compliment! 😂👍
No one else on YT builds such obscure engines with so much attention to detail. The valve science segment was really informative!
Check out squatch253 he’s restoring a cat D2 and his attention to detail is the best I’ve ever seen
Gotta be detailed when working on the odd stuff.
Do common things you do with common engines and it'll bite you in the rear main seal
@@MrTheHillfolk It doesn't matter what engine you're working on. If you're not detailed & meticulous... there's going to be problems.
@@stevenmccauley254
It's one way to learn , haha hopefully it's not too expensive 😂😂
Never expected to see a burette on this channel. Good show.
I’m constantly checking to see when y’all post more of this I can’t wait to hear that engine run !
We can't wait, either!
Use the bell to get notified when they post.
I love buick strait 8s! Can't wait to see this one done
@@Hagerty gotta hear this run. How is it progressing? 🤔
Davin - really like the details. Own a ‘32 Buick and took a drive today. It has 30,113 original miles and runs incredibly well. This is a great engine!
This man is a genius and would be an excellent teacher thank you for taking the time to explain everything
I've been looking forward to seeing more progress on this motor since the first clip. Glad to see the job is in good hands and I can hardly wait to hear it purr.
Thanks for walking us through the process very informative.
This is what I have been waiting for! Thanks!
Hammering those sleeves in reminded me of the instruction sheet I read on installing bearing cups on a job we had to do about fur or five times a year.Manafacturer instructions said that bearing cups should be installed with a press.However our shop press only had about 10 ton capicity and most times would not seat the cups properly.We were able to get liquid nitrogen at a nearby shop,drop the bearing cup into the nitrogen for a minute or so then it was almost a slip fit.Only took a few minutes to warm back up to outside temp,then hey presto reassemble the machine,worked like a charm.just had to remember not to try to tap on the bearing cup while it was very cold,LOL.
Really good Davin... The way you explain this is awesome and I really do understand the relationship between combustion head volume and compression ratio. Thanks again.
The straight 8 is back! Great video on explaining how compression ratios work.
Wow, this was fantastic! Nice job on the porting!
Absolutely LOVE this channel. Davin is the quintessential hot rodder. So refreshing to see someone with decades of experience work.
check out jonathan w's channel for more hot rod/engine stuff
Good to see this one moving along. It's one I'm really interested in.
You guys should definitely dyno this engine! I'd assume all the improvements will make it quite a bit more powerful/efficient. And I'm curious to see how much. Loved the video!
Your videos are my favorites to see in my Notifications. Take care.
I don't know if I will ever rebuild an engine anywhere near a straight eight, or even any V8. But I feel the resources in these videos eliminate many mysteries! Thanks for the knowledge!
I inherited a Pontiac Straight 8 from a girlfriend whose dad bought it for a commuting car for college. We both, girlfriend and I, paid big gas bucks even at 30 cents a gallon (premium), and so we finally ditched it by giving, yes, giving it to a friend who needed it to go see his wife. Great running machine with lots of power. Very smooth auto trans, GM had the best.l A great comfy road cruiser. We could go all day and not be tired from driving. Those old beauties were something to behold. Even her very large and heavy sister liked it, and she didn’t like anything.
Great explanation Davin 👍.... Already waiting for the next video....
This is going to be one bad ass 6.
i cant wait to see this thing get built and hear it run!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge👍
Great video. I always learn something when I watch your videos thanks
What a great video!!
Thank you!
This rebuild I am watching like a hawk. Davin please put it on the dyno when done and compare to the original factory specifications. Go on, it will be a hoot!
Great information. Thank you for sharing. 😎🇨🇦
Great job. Cheers Davin 👍
I can see with the time and effort you are putting in this engine it is going to run so much better than new . Would not surprise me with an improvement in Hp, torque and mpg.
Very interesting. Thank you.
the combustion chamber of this engine is twice the displacement of my moped lol
Been there
I'll bet that your moped turns faster then the Buick Straight Eight
@@claycoates5056 yeah 5000 rmp i guess
More maths : stock valves lose 1.5cc compared to the "flat" ones.
That's 3cc per cylinder, or 3 × 8 = 24cc difference from the stock to the flat valves. That's half the cc of your typical stock moped 😂 (49.9 cc ahah)
This is insane
Regular cars out of the US: 3 or 4 cylinders is fine; if you want more power and torque, you can get a V6 or a V8
Buick: let me get this straight...
Not only the volume inside the concavity of the valves is almost the displacement of a small moped, the total lenght of the engine is more than half of that of a moped XD
Im fascinated by the skill of the guys who set up and use the milling and cutting machines.must take years of experience to be let loose on one of those rare engines
Great work,
Interesting video. Thanks 😀👍
Really looking forward to the next update.
Love the shop work, awesome video
Thank you for your informative video.
I could have watched another hour more! Great video and great editing!
Loved it. Very clear. I worded for an engineering firm where such calculations were determinative of their profitably. I.e., they had to make their work succeed or they were out of money.
I love these machining videos...
Wish I'd been able to watch this thirty years ago - it would have made understanding cc'ing a lot easier. Nice job.
Great post!
So cool thanks
para todo el equipo felicitaciones , ustedes son geniales .Es magnifico ver su forma de trabajar . saludos desde México ¡¡
love it .......more please
8 cylinder monoblock cylinderhead.beautiful,rare (in Europe at least) and very difficult for machining i believe.really enjoy it.cheers.
Can’t wait for the finale
There is a very good reason why the valves are dished on the ends and that is to reduce weight. A lighter valve is easier to control, does less damage to soft seats, puts less load on the guides and doesn't need as strong a spring to close it at the correct time. A lighter spring doesn't get as hot, requires less force to override and back when this engine was made was far less likely to break through the lubricating oil in the engine along with less energy to compress it. Oil has come a VERY long way in the past 70 years as has fuel so there will also be less chance of the cylinder filling up with carbon. That extra carbon volume allowance in the combustion chamber would be enough to give it another 6 months before the head would need removal for cleaning and a valve job. You might think that the extra volume needed to be made up by having a domed piston and you would be correct however aluminum is a lot lighter and is better handled on a piston.
Intresting, never considered this aspect before.
That’s some pretty serious science stuff 👍😂
Just perfect 😎😎
Straight 8 is my fave engine of all. It's a shame you're not gonna hot it up a little more!
Thanks.
Cant Wait
been waiting on this one....
Good job sir 👍👍
Genius!!!!!!👏👏👏👏💙🇦🇷
I love seeing the tech side here. Most channels gloss over it. Would love to learn how to rebuild an engine at some point, and with a 'barn find' project car coming in soon, I'll probably have to! Planning on doing a project series on it here on YT
Such an interesting Chanel ...
Bravo. Terimakasih👍
You can also take putty and press it in to the chamber, remove it, then place the lump into a beaker and see how much fluid it displaces - given this is not a 235 HP 1.4L Bike engine spinning 14,000. Fancy race builds will have and use a laser interferometer; it would scan the chamber and side load it to a PC where you could manipulate the image and do all sorts of calculations and even F.E.A. on flow. - Sandy
Buick when they originally built these engines to be smooth and reliable which is what their customers back then were looking for and to work with the wide variety of octane in pump gas that was available before and right after WW2 and that was why compression ratios were so low. My dad used to talk about how smooth and torquay the Buick straight eights were compaired to the latter V8's but not nearly as powerful.
Inline engines are inherently smoother than V or Opposed engines. The more cylinders you have, the smoother it will get. Inline 6 engines often make more power and torque than V8s and are very smooth too.
Were all the valves cupped the same way. I've seen valves cup deeply from heavy valve spring tension a high lift cam.
Don't see too many young fellows around your shop, what is going to happen in another 10 to 15 years, usually the journeymen transfer their knowledge to the younger apprentences but young folks don't want to do this work, might get dirt under their fingernails. I'm I reading this right? I bet a straight 8 Buick with a 3 speed o/d transmission and the right gearing would move out well even today and still do onver 20 mpg on the highway and be very smooth. Quite good for a 2+ ton auto with no aerodynamics. Please keep up the good work, I'm old but still have a lot to learn.
Pretty common sight in most trade shops. Keeps going this way it will cost more to hire a plumber than a doctor. Not as many care to get their hands dirty to earn a living as in the past.
Holy crap. Makes me feel like I’m learning something when I watch you guys go through this rebuild. It’s interesting to me that you’re only shooting for 8.5:1, though I get the necessity for cheaper gas. You guys think there’s gonna be a supercharger tossed on here at some point?
Here I was thinking, bump the compression ratio, OK let's go crazy.
"I'm hoping for 8 to 8.5:1"
This engine must have run on swamp water.
Doesn't surprise me, the old air cooled Wisconsin v4 in a bobcat I had made 7:1 compression I think. It was so low to run easily in a dirty environment. Fuel back then was crappy.
This the Buick Fireball straight eight. 8 to 8.5 ratio is actually a bit high for the years and octane when these engines were built.
Love the Buick build, I had a 1952 Buick 2 dr. HT many years ago , always mused about a hot rod straight 8, then just didn’t think possible for this chunk of cast iron, yours should perform much better.
Lots of detail there to understand.
The power gains after all that head work is at least + 1/2 HP.
You have made the chambers 3cc+ bigger! 95cc will need a lot of capacity to make decent comp.
As for the bend,, that alone can be several cc. That is why you should check every chamber, the part with the most metal removed will obviously be smaller.
On 6s I have had to give up on heads like that for remotely performance engines as the comp varies from 9'5 to over 10-1. And the engine will never make power like such.
Had some Chev heads that had been butchered as well and were about 040 different end to end.
8.5-1 sounds ok, though that chamber may be a problem. But premiun fuel will fix that ok.
Hard work ! Agora na hora de dirigir o piloto leva a fama .
Those new valves have more mass so the springs will need increasing ro get the same rpm.
Good job 😅😅😅😅
Out of interest how do you accurately CC domed pistons, especially ones with valve relief pockets?
"To physically measure a dome or inverted dome piston top... On a domed or inverted piston, you put the piston 1” into the hole, put some grease around the corner and fill to the top of the cylinder deck. Subtract this volume from the cylinder volume 1” down. Formula for a cylinder is pi/4 d^2 x height." -Davin
😅 The clearance volume of 97 cc on this engine is my bike engine whole displacement volume
Lol. It's a big engine.
So who built the best Straight 8s. ? I would suggest Packard.
Why is Davin always talking about his relatives!? The pistons and valves and seats and stems are one big happy family at Hagerty and Thirlby's….
W.O.W.
It's time for the next time 😉🤔
Let's make a drinking game: Set up a Davin video marathon and take a shot every time Davin says "relative". :-) Good excuse to hit the like button a lot too.
Interesting observation! Wouldn't it be possible to build up the valve and then machine the face?
Now I understand how the head works to get bore compression that's amazing you guys know your stuff
My father and I are building a 1948 Buick with a straight 8. Hopefully in a week or two's it's back on the road. It's been parked in a garage for 20 year's.
Can u feel the power?
Hope Davin finds a great replacement piston for the Straight-8 too; stock ones have a tiny bore and could really do for some floating wrist pins. Last I saw, straight 8 fans still hadn't found a solution though i'd probably be a small investment from some big boys like Egge.
Did you harden the exhaust seat's cause of their tendency to burn? You could almost turbocharge it depending on compression...
Yes. The hardened exhaust seats reduce wear at the seats. In addition to the material lost to “burning” which results in valve recession, the machining will go well below the factory hardening of the seat, into the softer, unhardened cast iron and have a very short service life with unleaded fuels. The new seats are case hardened through their entire thickness and hold up well with modern fuels.
@ 10:55 the books on the left :-) old like the engine.
OSM fascinated by improving a classic engine. Will you dyno this engine to see HP Torque when you finish? I would be very interested to see the improvement in performance and to see what sort of gas mileage you get now.
Davin, will you spend the effort to equalize the CC's in every one of the 8 chambers?
"For this application: No. The benefit will not be enough for the time spent. But on a higher performance: Yes. Checking them “as cast” they are all within a few CC." -Davin
@@Hagerty Thanks! And congrats on your great video series!
That CR bump ought to help the performance.
Did you ever explain what the holdup was on this engine? Thought I heard something about "ordering parts" but that was a long time ago. Was there something else?
Covid-19 probally didnt help matters?
@@thatbuelldude189 Yeah, I see what you mean. I was thinking the updates stopped well before the shelter orders, but looking back, I see update #32 (broke the sleeve install) was mid March.
I'm curious about the design of the original valves. Was the purpose of the deep well on the intake valve a benefit somehow? Was it strictly for cooling the valve, or somehow using the compression in the compression stroke to help it close and increase seat pressure to eliminate backfire thru the intake/carb? There had to be a reason for it. Now I'm going to obsess over this until someone can post an answer that makes sense.
I would think you would want to CC the number one cylinder as well as the middle one to get an average.
With the head surface being curved before it was machined, wouldn't that mean the chambers on the ends got more shaved off than the centers? I would be curious to see if that's the case and if the fix for that would be machining the chamber volumes out to all match.
"That is correct. The center chambers are a few CC larger. If I was playing a tighter game on max compression, then I would go through the effort of CC matching all the chambers for this application. It isn’t warranted." -Davin
How does a dish in the valve LOWER the CC as you state? I understand it would lower the compression, but the volume (CC)?
I agree. Much of what he says is nonsense.
The dish increases the CC and lowers the compression. I didn’t hear him say it backwards but that was a lot of talk and it would be easy to say it wrong. Pretty straight forward stuff though and I think the point was the comparison between the dish in the valve and taking .0010 off the head.
@@rustyaxelrod 0:54-1:20 or so. I think you are right , he just misspoke. He says the dish "Lost CC" when he probably meant "lost compression".
"A dish in the face of the valve increases the cylinder head chamber volume and effectively reducing compression." -Davin
@@Hagerty Correct, a dish in the valve RAISES the CC (volume) and lowers the compression ratio. You just misspoke on the video. NP.
When are we going to see the straight 8 buick complete time lapse?
Difference between the outer and inner chambers, or did you match chambers?
He said the head had a banana shape and his hand gesture made me think it was low in the center. In order to make it flat, more material was taken off each end so those end chambers would be smaller. Matching those would involve finding the largest one and then carefully grinding the other seven chambers to that size, being careful not to go over. It certainly can be done but it’s very time consuming (grinding, checking, grinding over and over) and the slight improvement is so small it just wouldn’t be worth the time on a rebuild in this power range and application.
@@rustyaxelrodI I've done the work, I know what's involved. I also heard him say it was warped, he didn't say by how much and it is a straight eight. You've done a good job of telling me what I already know, but you can't answer my question.
Brad Maas- well ok then
@@rustyaxelrod Sorry. I spent a number of years messing with L series Datsun heads, aluminum, overhead cam design. It warps, you shave the head, match the chambers, shim the cam towers, and cross your fingers. After a couple of years it was chuck the head and buy new. Iron doesn't warp as bad but with the added length it could affect compression enough for a decent amount of vibration. With the Datsun you could see the difference in a compression check.
Please more videos, we need the distraction these days, Cheers.
How about supercharging or turbocharging to increase the cylinder pressure.
Good education for us non mechanics.
For Comparison , the last set of cylinder heads I modified , from a 2000 chevy truck , were 62 cc .