What Makes Cheap Drums Cheap (And Good Drums Good)??
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- What, really, is the difference between cheap drums and good drums? How significant are the differences and how do they affect the behavior of the drum? And what can be done to improve the quality of truly cheap drums?
No, I don't recommend buying uber cheap drums and then trying to fix them up (big hassle and probably as much expense as just buying a better drum to begin with), but for the sake of demonstration in this video I do improve the craftsmanship of an otherwise cheap snare drum (with cheap hardware) just to see what role craftsmanship plays in the manufacture of good drums. So let's get into it!! It's the most fun you'll have all week, of course!
Jon Zoog (Dallas Drum) can be reached at dallasdrum.com
I have no financial affiliation with Dallas Drum or Jon Zoog -- he just knows his stuff (and is a really cool dude to boot!!)
In my personal experience it's the hardware. Night and day difference between a Gretsch tuner and the El cheapo D-Drum nut and bolt lug. Also bearing edges, however there are plenty of companies who don't seem to get this right. I've seen new unboxing videos demonstrating poor bearing edge on the flagship Gretsch drums. My Ludwig maple classics made in 2000 have terrible edges as well. Makes it really difficult to tune. So I say it's best to deal with a company that will accept returns because you never know what you're going to get until you personally inspect the drums yourself. I also saw a brand new high end DW drum kit for sale at a music store that had many imperfections in the chrome hardware. QC must of had the day off.
I cannot even believe the snare drum I got for Christmas in 1966. I couldn't get a drum set for lack of room and my patents not wanting to deal with such a thing. It was made of compressed cardboard, like the sonic tubes for cement. I played the heck out of it along with the Monkees T V show. By far, that drum was way inferior to the $65 Amazon snare. I cant believe that I thought it was cool. Of course, I was only 10 years old. Lol!
That's how my Maple classic snare looks on a machinist table! 90 degrees from each snare bed is the only wood that touches. I call it the mega snare bed model.😂
The bass drum tho 😳🤯 sounds huge, amazing
I generally avoid most inexpensive drums; However, there is one major exception. My gigging rig is an older Sonor Safari, with the "Select Hardwood" shell (which I'm about 99% sure is poplar) that cost me $400, with hardware, gently used. It has a 10" rack, 14" floor, and 16" kick, and a virtually useless 14" snare. I immediately replaced the snare with a Tama steel 12x3 snare that sounds great.
I built this kit specifically for smaller venues where volume is a concern, but still wanted big, full tone. This is where the soft poplar comes in clutch. I use double ply heads tuned pretty much at the bottom of each drum's tuning range, and I hand sanded the bearing edges to round them just slightly. Combined with Sonor's surprisingly solid hardware, hoops, and build quality, that cheap, small kit sounds absolutely fantastic mic'd up through a PA, and I'm constantly getting compliments on the sound and size (a note: we play rock and country).
Is it a 1=1 replacement for a normal size high quality maple, birch, or mahogany set? No. The tuning range is limited and it's missing some of the nuance and feel of a full size kit; but in the environments I use it in, it's superb. Certain "cheap" drums are worth owning and playing in the right situations.
As always, great video and review. There is another fact that is important when you are playing live (whit those kind of kits), these snare drums commonly came with a low-quality bass drum and cymbals (like HSC or cheap alloy) and make the snare sound even worse. Listening to the snare with a good bass drum and good hihats as in the video helps a little to make it sound better.
Interesting thought! That's probably true. If all the drums sound bad they all sound bad. If some sound good it might affect the way the 'bad' one is perceived. There's a great deal of that type of psychosomatic perception that goes on in human perspective (something good to understand when mixing tunes to get the relationships right between the different elements in the tune... not everything has to be just perfect, b/c some of the character of some elements will be credited by the listener to seemingly unrelated content in the mix. (Different discussion for a different channel, but it's in line with your saying!).
Thank you for that insight!
A 14x6.5 10-ply Keller maple snare shell costs $77, before drilling and edges. Spun metal or 1-ply/stave wood shells cost more, roughly in the $150-250 range. Cast metal is a different beast, those shells can be as high as $700+ for bell bronze. Of course, the more esoteric the snare shell, the more it will cost. But for drum sets as a whole, which are almost always made of plywood, the difference mostly comes from the hardware, finish, and especially the cost of labor in the country of manufacture. Oh, and options. Having more options means higher manufacturing costs, so the price has to be higher. So many people only ever consider the cost of materials when judging the value of things.
First off - Nice catch! Lol
I appreciate your refreshing spin on the cheap snare buy. Nice work! Your examples & wisdom are awesome. Thank you Joel! 10 out of 10
Thank you so much!
Thank you for making these videos! Like others (Maybe more so due to my own fog of ignorance.), I've looked for a snare drum sound I truly liked for years. Your teaching and suggestions have helped immensely. I now have a good selection of drums that will do what I want them to. Your channel is a great resource! (And your buddy John at Dallas Drums is awesome!)
Jon Zoog is good people! Thank you for your kind remarks!
This thing is gonna be the snare drum of Theseus pretty soon.
Great video as usual, Joel. I also saw you on the Drum Center of Portsmouth channel!
Yeah, I was in Boston a couple of weeks ago, so took a quick road trip up to see the guys there. Great place and great people!! They asked me if I wanted to play on an electronic kit while I was there, so it was just a last minute type of thing. Electronics drums aren't really my bag, but they're fun to play when the sounds are interesting (not the normal acoustic drum kit fare). It's a surprisingly fun kit to play. Thanks for reaching out!
Definitely a huge difference in the snare response and sensitivity . After all of your work and effort I do think the drum sounds much better. Was very interesting to watch all the steps that were done in order to improve the instrument. One thing I have to say which has nothing to do with the snare drum. That bass drum you were using sounds amazing!
yes, it's true, the hardware replacement alone would run you almost as much as buying a quality instrument itself - but understanding WHY quality sounds different is essential. such a fantastic video. even mid-line well known brands are cutting corners these days with labour costs being higher - understanding what you're getting is so helpful.
THE MOST COMMON short cut I see from virtually all manufacturers these days with their non-top line drums is to leave the interiors unsanded and unsealed - raw. Harder woods will suffer less from the effects of this, but sealing the wood makes for a more complex timbre common to top line drums.
After that are less-than-spectacular edges.
I'm actually about to modify a friend's Tama Rockstar kit with these two mods (maybe mod the mounting brackets too, but not sure yet). I'm debating (with myself) about making a video on that as well. Same basic subject as this video, but another, broader application (and something I highly recommend to people who own such kits... it will improve your whole experience with those drums).
Think that is worth doing??
@@drumdotpizza go for it! i would love to see that video! i picked up a mid-90s Tama rockstar kit with the luan shells for 80$ - guy was gonna toss it. All I did was clean it up and put Aquarian studio-x heads on it, and it just sounds so big and warm. I have much more expensive drums sitting right beside it and I honestly don't love them more than these rockstars.
@@oreoandoz7723 Thank you for the encouragement! I'll likely do it. If I do it'll be done in the next month or so (I'm working on the drums next week).
I got a good deal once on 91 japan Rockstar, then sold it couple years later for same 200 dollar with more hardware included to a kid that never played drums. He thought he was getting robbed, poor kid. I Think I even took off 50 bucks for him too..
Another great video, Joel.
Thank you for being here!
Probably as a function of being brighter and better wire response, snare sounds a lot more "immediate" after you worked on it. Before it was kinda sluggish. Sounds a lot better and honestly, I wouldn't fret over using it for recording (even though, as you said, after the fixes it probably would benefit from a different setup more geared towards its new characteristics).
Goes to show how much of the sound comes from actual worksmanship and things that are a matter of a bit more care and thoughtfulness in production.
Thank you! That was exactly the point I was hoping to make in this video. Hardware and heads matter, of course, but I hear so little discussion of the craftsmanship and finishing/sealing that would make many middle-of-the-road drums truly quite nice!
That $46.00 Griffin snare drum sounds as good or better than my Pearl Maple Free-floating 14 x 5, ten lug which cost a lot more...about 12 times more.
Groove playing:
No chances 13:55
Good heads & wires 15:18
Shell improvements 24:48
Very cool video demonstration. I'm not so sure that I would go through all the trouble to fix up a cheap drum to get it to where it needs to be in terms of sound and durability. You would probably be better off in getting a used drum that's been taken care reasonably and at minimal replace the heads with your favorite heads and clean it up as needed.
No, this is not the route to quality drum... too much effort and expense compared to getting a much better drum used. This was only for demonstration of the role of craftsmanship in the manufacture of a quality drum.
@@drumdotpizza Yes indeed, it also shows your creative approach for making the cheap drum usable, at least for now. lol...
Thank you for this interesting and very informative video. I enjoyed it immensely.❤️🙏👏
YES! I saw a Ludwig Sta-Set tool when you reassembled the drum! Great video.
Happy I found you bro! Keep the content coming!!
Like always, realy nice video , Thank YOU
Really enjoyed this one Joel, so interesting to watch. New heads did a little for me, the work you did on the shell made the drum sing. It was still a lightweight drum and thin hoops, but it was singing - in technical terms the pitches that came off the drum were complementary. Fixing the snare bed huge for the snare response and amazing that the cheap mechanism then worked fine. My big takeaway is to watch the bearing edge more closely, for me that’s the key to my kind of sound.
Absolutely. After heads the bearing edge makes the biggest difference.
Super useful demo! Seems like the bearing edges and snare beds probably did the heaviest lifting in the huge improvement you got...? I mean, those were baaaaad.
They were bad, yes (the beds about the worst/most useless I have ever seen), so yes, that made the biggest difference, but I believe in the idea that lots of attention to many small details adds up to a big difference, so I went ahead and added the heavier washers, glued the wrap, and better hardware would help too (would stay in tune better with cast lugs over the lightweight junk it came with).
@@drumdotpizza That snare drum sounds like a Ludwig supraphonic tuned low.
Awesome informative video and your presentation style is very enjoyable. New subscriber!
Build quality makes a huge difference. Super-flexy lugs and tom mounts, chintzy snare strainers, cheap heads, unlubricated tension rods, unlubricated lug screws, sharp metal edges, metal burrs, rough bearing edges.... I'm totally okay with less expensive woods or slightly fewer lugs, but I sure don't want to have to swap out lugs or hoops. Even name brand entry-level kits do this sometimes. Cheap Ludwig lugs are still just cheap lugs. Older entry-level gear is generally better than newer entry-level gear; top-of-the-line stuff today is usually higher quality than older flagship gear.
super knowledge and well spoken, thanks man
Great video man! The cheapest snare drum really did come up in sound quality and response. Smith's clear penetrating epoxy sealer, which is a marine product would be perfect for drum shells. It's kind of expensive that would be well worth it. I've used it on wooden boat restoration and it really works well. Try Jamestown distributors in Jamestown Rhode Island.
Thanks for the video.
Your superb videos are much appreciated 👍
I'd love to see you take three of those cheap snare drums and find a cheap kick drum. Then put mesch heads and triggers and make a DIY electronic kit.
What a great video! I just discovered your channel and what an unbelievable fantastic source of information and inspiration is this..!! ❤ Could you make a video sometime about what effect a stick (thickness, tip, type of wood) has on the sound of a drum/cymbal? I’m very curious what the outcome of this investigation would show… 😊 Thanks for setting up this great channel, I’m studying your videos with great interest..!! 😃🙏🏻
You’re right. The cost of a drum doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s going to sound better than a cheaper shell drum I’ve heard many an expensive set sound like shit!! A cheap set with good bearing edges and good heads can sound as good as a 4000 set Your mostly paying for the cosmetic stuff on real expensive drums
I recently heard a great custom snare drum at a drum show by AVA drums, it had non if the unwanted overtones I usually have to used moongel etc to get rid of with something like a coats ambassador, turned out his tricj was round over bearing edges. A cheap softshell drum like this would be better off without the 45's
Roundover edges definitely mellows a drum, and this drum probably would be better suited for that edge, particularly given the relative softness of poplar. The edge that came on it looked like a 45, however, so I just had Jon do that for the sake of the upgrade... just trying to do what the factory was had intended. Anyway, that was my thought. Thanks so much for your comments!
nice playing by the way.
Thank you!
More expensive doesn’t mean sounds better. Look at Yamaha stage custom and Gretsch Catalina club jazz. They both sound great.
It's as if Behringer started making acoustic drums. I'd put an Evans Calftone on the batter side to give at least a little bit of mojo which it's seriously lacking.
Yes, it lacks punch and body, for sure. Not at all odd for a cheap, poplar, stencil drums. Rounded edges would help balance things, as would much more substantive hardware and (likely) more attention to detail when forming the shell (I seriously doubt a sufficient amount of glue was evenly spread between veneers before hitting the mold. Poor adhesion of veneers can have really detrimental effect on the fundamental tone produced by a drum's shell). But... even cheap drums can find a use (I actually have a couple of similar drums that I love to use for loopy type stuff!).
Thanks for chiming in!
The thing with capturing and recording drums properly like a studio would, it makes everything sound better than it actually does in the room with the drum.
There is definitely something to be said about that. FWIW I used identical miking and mixing setups for all the audio examples. Like I said in the video, not the approach I would have taken with that drum in its final form, but for the sake of consistency doing a comparison I maintained it all.
Love the video man, great as always. What would you estimate as being the cost of all the modifications made to the drum? Leveling, cutting new bearing edges, making a new snare bed, finishing the inside, redoing the wrap. That's all got to add up. $40 for the drum, + the cost of the upgrades, what drum could someone just buy for that price?
It's insane to me that anyone would even take a chance on something like this, when you can cruise the used classifieds or hit up a flea market and find an old Tama, Pearl, Yamaha etc. basic steel snare that would've be included with the kit for the same price and it'll be night and day quality improvement over this.
Great video! I know you like Aquarian drum heads, and so do I, but it seems strange that there are no pictures or videos of the factory ? Where are they made, I’ve asked Sweetwater, Pro drums in Hollywood and no answer. I’m just curious, you see the video tours of Remo and Evans but all you see on Aquarian is a distribution warehouse in California. Just wondering??
Aquarian heads are made in Mexico, I believe. They were made in Southern California up till around 2006/7 when they moved production to Mexico. I didn't use Aquarian heads during this time (having used them several years earlier, but having stopped due to difficulty from local retailers not having them sufficiently in stock) and have heard that there were some initial kinks in production quality that had to get ironed out after the move, but I also heard they ironed these kinks out quickly, and I can say that by the time I began using them again a few years ago (once it occurred to my ancient brain that I could order them online!!) the quality has been top notch. I have nothing but praise for Aquarian heads! Their flesh hoops are the. most stable of the big three drumhead manufacturers, and their coating is the most robust.
25 years ago I used Aquarian Texture Coated heads on my snare and toms and LOVED them. But then my local reseller quit stocking them so much, and I was busy with the studio, so I switched to typical Remo/Evans fare for the next several years (whatever I could get when I needed heads). Their heads are okay, but Remo's QC seemed hit and miss (heads with wrinkles in them, some rather tight out of the box and other (of the same model) flabby... just never knew what I was gonna get).
Evan heads sound fine, but I really don't like their coatings... they're sticky and they come off easily (with tape or if the heads sit in their shipping boxes too long the coating sticks to the inside of the boxes). Just annoying.
Aquarina heads are super consistent, and they have some models that R and E don't have anything remote equivalent for (I LOVE the Studio-X line... the PERFECT single ply head with just a touch of tone control... just beautiful for toms!).
I'd love to take a peek inside the factory myself! I wish they'd do such a video. Maybe I'll reach out to Chris and ask for it!
Thanks a bunch, I’m really digging the texture coated, haven’t tried the studio x
It’s a useable sound now. But from a cost and time perspective a buyer would be better off with a used Pearl Export or similar snare. You can find them in mint condition for ~$80.
Absolutely! If you're looking for a drum this is NOT the way to go about getting one. This was only for demonstration of the value of greater care in craftsmanship during production.
That was super useful Joel! U was going to ask you about that wood hardening product, and if you had a soft wood snare drum would it be worth giving the entire shell a good covering of wood hardener to increase its mass, im planing to do that on an old 70's luan kick that was very badly water damaged (once id finished reglueing the split laminations)
Thanks for such great content :)
Thanks for the question! I used the Bondo 'Rotted Wood Restorer' primarily because of ease... I didn't love the applicator brush built into the lid, but it is a single part product (no separate hardener to mix like epoxy), so it was easy to use and cured very quickly and definitely makes the wood hard.
I do think (think, not actually know, but certainly think) that a better long term approach would be proper penetrating epoxy (do some research, they differ in working and curing times). And I would do multiple coats. Penetrating epoxies hare largely solvents (to make its viscosity really thin to help it penetrate wood fibers), but those solvents simply evaporate while it cures, so if you look at it microscopically you'd see that it coats the wood fibers, but still leaves the wood porous, so multiple coats of penetrating epoxy will better fill in the gaps with each application. I would also warm the epoxy before application to further reduce the viscosity. This would definitely add mass as well as harden the shell, so I believe the effect would be to my liking anyway (I prefer denser drums to lighter drums in general).
I have an early-80s Tama Imperialstar 18" floor tom that has water damage that I'm going to do this to (while also cutting it from 16" deep to 14" to make a bass drum out of it). It is currently missing the bottom reinforcing ring (where the water damage is), so I'll cut the 2" from that end and install a new ring, refinish the interior, fill holes from the leg brackets, etc. It should be a fun project (I like building things, and I have 12" and 14" toms to go with to make a little Imperialstar bop kit. Should be fun!
@@drumdotpizza that does sound like a fun project!! Thanks for the advice about using Epoxy. I had considered that ( partly because i found one with fiberglass power mixed in with it and i thought.. oohh easy wipe on vibrafibing (if my terms are correct)) but ill look into the one you described. Thanks for taking the time to write back, thats really nice
It’s interesting listening to your perspective and analysis of this drum. Makes me wonder since you have a Tama shirt on what your perspective and analysis of the cheapest Tama drum to the most expensive. Also the difference in old Tama drums that were made in Taiwan or Japan. Thanks I enjoyed this video.
I have a Tama club jam and the 12" snare is poplar and really quite fun, but the shallow bass drum is awful, the shell finish is no better than the drum in this video.I lightly sanded the bearing edges and put candel wax on them.
I'd love the opportunity to do such a comparison. In truth, I'm an old dude and my love for Tama (which is deep!) stems back to my high school days in the early 80s -- Imperialstar, Superstar, Artstar (the original, not 'II'), and even Royalstar (gonna do a video about Royalstar soon, I promise!) and the Mastercraft series of snare drums. THAT's the Tama I'm familiar with. The more recent Tama offerings I know fairly little about. I do know their Imperialstar line is now entry-level poplar made in China. And I have played the Woodworks (is that the correct name?) poplar snare drums that are so inexpensive. I actually considered using one of them as the subject for this video, but thought I was likely to get an even poorer (better?) example of poor craftsmanship with the $45 Amazon drum.
Of the current Japan-built Tama drums that I have been exposed to, I do like a lot of what I see and hear. Just need a bit more exposure...
@@drumdotpizza I just noticed that the old Tama swingstar and Rockstar are really good quality and sound good for a cheap price. But I don’t know how they Compare to Superstars. For shell construction and hardware.
@@JackNiles In the 80s Superstars were six THICK plies of birch. Swingstars were 9-ply lauan (philippine mahogany), like Imperialstars (though not 9 PIECES of veneer... veneers leftover from cutting were glued together to make a single veneer for the Swingstar shells, so they do differ from Imperialstar shells in that respect). The hardware compliment was lighter weight for Swingstar than Superstar/Imperialstar, but the craftsmanship was quite good. Swingstars also had the zolacoat interior finish that Imperialstars had too (Superstars were natural or stained interior depending on the year).
Rockstars appeared at the end of 80s and have been in continuous production since, I think (I lost track of the drum world for much of the later 90s through 2010s while working in audio production (I geeked out about audio as much as I did/do about drums, but didn't reignite my drum passion till probably 2015). Rockstars, for the most part, have been lauan shells with an inner ply of basswood (as I described some less costly drums being in this video). The basswood makes a nice presentation, but it is unsealed, so it sucks up HF energy tremendously. Sealing the interior or Rockstar drums, particularly with 2 or more coats of sealant (the wood just sucks it up) makes them much nicer drums (though most tend toward the deep side of dimensions -- think power toms of the 80s and 90s.
I am actually upgrading a friend of mine's Rockstar kit for another video, so stay tuned. It will be a few weeks away, but that one will be coming.
Thanks for being here and for your comments!
Excellent job! I miss acoustic drums 😢
Then get one !!! I have 2 set of drums not interested in parting with any of them
@@erictorres4889 i would already have done so if it weren't for my neighbors 😂😂😂
Great video
So let me guess.... you like Paiste cymbals? (I know, I'm like psychic or something! ;)
@@drumdotpizza Love them
@@michaels6213 My favorite crashes are my 18 and 20 Paiste Giant Beats. Smooth and rich, but bright enough to cut without being harsh. They record phenomenally well and are easy to mix!
Can you make a video about room treatment for drum recording?
Did anyone just add reinforced ring to the inside of the snare batter side? Then that would work if you want to add strengh to the edge making it wide like some tom toms.
Mid level drums are great these days I prefer them over any “high end “ drumset my Tama superstar classic drums sound great and a I have a pearl export drumset from the 80es and 90es that I love as well I can get them to sound just like “high end “ drums the “high end “ drum marketing hype that even you seem to think expensive is better and that’s far from the truth
Wanna change your life? Seal the interior of your Export drums. Not a glossy finish, mind you, just a couple legit coats of tung/teak oil or the like.
Try this first: take a head off of one of your Export toms or bass drum and press your thumbnail into the interior ply... it will easily leave a deep groove -- the basswood interior ply of Export drums is extremely soft (and porous) and unsealed -- raw. Give that wood a good seal with finishing oil and your drums will come alive like you have never heard them before.
Thank you for being here!!
mahogany is also a highly porous wood and it sounds great for the snares, not sure about that at all
I’m just purchasing a sonor jingle kit, 10,13,16 and 6x13 snare drum. ( I also purchased a 3.5 x14 mapex poplar / maple hybrid snare drum. After watching this and you applying the bondi brand hardening stuff , I’m wondering if I should do the same since drums are 100% poplar. I been considering staining or you used the teal oil on interior. Personally ide feel lot more comfortable using the bondi stuff rather than oil for inside drum. Only reason being said is drums will be in my home. I dint think my wife would appreciate any oily smell. Thx so much I really like your videos
Poplar is not material that should be used in drums. Might as well use recycled bottles.
sugar percussion is the only drummaker who has made a truly great sounding all-poplar shell drum in my opinion (their painted poplar series snare drums). it just tends to be such a soft and porous wood that it sounds lacklustre 99% of the time because most companies don't play to the strengths of poplar as a shell material when making their poplar drums
You and sounds like adrum should do a video together, would be cool.
I doubt that would work. I like their channel, but they script things like fart sniffing college kids. Talking about "tuning prescriptions" and "we don't subscribe to idea that ___" and such. They're two completely different styles. This channels way better
Sounds like a drum take 20 mins to say what you could in 2. What would he gain from them?
@@krusher74 a wider audience!?
What about the Lugwig questlove snare breakbeat can you do a review on that snare please. Thank you
how do you make a 45 dollar snare sound good? drop 300 in parts and supplies into it. XD
Well... $150 anyway! And don't forget the elbow grease!! 😀
How much did you end up spending? And cost of drum
If I could afford, I would get my Set back which I Sold 30 years ago😢😢😢
Sonor signature Bubinga Rosewood with a 14" 8" palisander custom diecast hoops Snare and 3 way plated chromium highclass Hardware and Paiste Dark handhammerd cymbals
Hihats Soundedge 2002😢😢😢
By the time someone spends extra money on upgrading a cheap snare drum like this, one will be better off just investing on a quality snare drum.
For sure, agreed. However, many drummers already have on hand relatively inexpensive snare drums, and there are numerous tips in the video to help them sound better.
Agreed, that's why I mention (near the end of the video... probably should have said it up front) that I don't recommend people take this approach if they're wanting to acquire a good drum. I just wanted to demonstrate the value of the craftsmanship that is common to quality drums that contributes to their improved performance over cheaper drums.
I bought that exact snare out of curiosity and have never been able to play it. The snares will not tighten no matter what i do. The strainer is non functional and absolute garbage.
Griffin sucks down with Griffin