2 Stroke Oil Ratio Explained - MORE OIL = MORE POWER!
Vložit
- čas přidán 15. 06. 2021
- www.howtomotorcyclerepair.com/
Learn How-To Repair and Maintain your own Motorcycle!
Support me on Patreon.
/ matthewmcrepair
Buy me a beer
www.howtomotorcyclerepair.com...
Now on Facebook. Give me a Like.
/ howtomotorcyclerepair
Sign up for my newsletter! Get emailed when new videos come out.
www.howtomotorcyclerepair.com... - Jak na to + styl
Excellent video. I like running 1:1 ratio in my bike that way nobody can pass me because they can't see.
Hahaha.
Only true people run 0:1😅
LMMFAO!!!
🤣
1:2 will give you a little bit more bottom end.
In the seventies, we used to race powerboats with 6 cylinder 2-stroke Mercury outboards. At first, we stuck with the specified 50:1 mix, but this wasn't enough for continuous high speed use and we suffered a seizure. We tried increasing to 25:1 to prevent this, but the plugs got fouled, so we reduced it to 33:1 and had no more problems, completing a whole season on one pair of engines for each of the next few years.
Plugs do not foul because of more oil. In fact, more oil means the jetting will be more lean as less gas is flowing through the jets. If you jetting is crisp at 25:1, the oil will burn, and you will not foul plugs, or have messy exhaust. I find it odd that they recommended 50:1 back in the 70's, as it was the EPA who stressed lean gas/oil mixes, and not usually the engine manufactures themselves. If you did not jet the carbs, you were running richer, (lower combustion temps) at 50:1,---but the oils were not as good back then. If you were running high octane fuel, the oil (castor oils did this the most IMO) may have been separating from the fuel, and dropping to the bottom of the fuel tank. I did that once with Castrol-r, (pure castor bean 2-stropke race oil) and 110 av gas in a dirt bike. Burned up the top end in the early 80's. Then I mixed some up in a glass jar, and immediately saw the oil separate from the gas and fall to the bottom of the jar. Jumping from 50:1 to 25:1 is a big pretty difference in jetting, and would be running leaner/hotter. if you were fouling plugs then, you were still running rich. Too rich to burn the oil.
this guy thinks two strokes are just like milk shakes ..why do this gen of millennials also try and tell you just the opposite of real chemistry and physics with nothing at all relating to any level of science .could it be they were never taught anything of knowledge all through kindergarten elementary junior high to high school then college level and then graduation day from a known university and having an out door ceremony and then Jay Leno happens to walk into the picture and he ask this young girl how many stars are on that flag waving above your head ..and she quickly answers back and said "i dont know its moving to fast to count them all " so you plow it off cause tat had to be staged right ??? this doofus does not have a freaking clue what is an internal combustion engine and two strokes to him are no different than a four stroke ..just pour in more oil for more compression and they made him an engineer....listen to his story one more time as he admits he does not know much about to stroke oil but he claims to know it all when it comes to mixing it cause he is an engineer.....make a note they stopped teaching school in 1985 ..they started chemtrailing us with turbo fan airplanes that can not make contrails as they are propel with props power buy a gas turbine that the thrust is all the ducked air around the engine like in the cobra military helicopter and jay leno's gas turbine that is not a jet but the millennials know better cause its technology .and old guys like you and me never had technology and can not know of technology of jets ..so there is nothing of any importance you will ever tell to this self taught genius
@@EarthSurferUSAif the oil burns, can you explain how it does not effect the air/fuel mixture?
Even heavy fuel oil will burn. Large amounts of oil can burn in an older Toyota or Honda car and it will definitely foul plugs. NOT because the gasoline/air mixture has changed in any way. But the overall air/FUEL mixture has changed, is far more rich than desired, and will leave carbon deposits from inefficient/incomplete combustion due to the huge presence of low quality fuel.
Folks always act like the 2 stroke oil just takes up space and passes completely through the engine as a liquid. No, it burns and comes out as blue smoke. No matter what flammable liquid you’re burning, it acts as a fuel for an internal combustion engine.
If oil isn’t fuel, how can a diesel engine run? How can that same engine run on alcohol? Because internal combustion engines work on combusting a flammable liquid internally. Duh.
Gasoline
Motor oil
Diesel fuel
Gear oil
Transmission fluid
Methanol
Ethanol
2 stroke oil
And
Nitromethane
Are ALL fuels and lubricants. Just at differing levels.
Red band 125 ?
@@andrewberg2361 blue band 140s then 150s
I appreciate the fact that you are emphasizing following the manufacturer's recommendations. Like you said, they poured a ton of time and money into building these bikes, so they probably know what they are talking about.
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!!!!
@@davemccage7918 I hope you like strawberry :)
They want you to over oil it so you gunk up more parts to replace!!
Yes but some rec. run lean jus bc they need to to pass emissions initially.
And make a shit ton of money on parts. Like my local powersports dealer told me, "we make most of our money on parts and service."
I would trust the 1978 test before a modern test, because we were sharper people back then, (our education stinks today). You are correctly show that more oil makes more power, but that is with a rich condition jetting (as you noted). If that PE was jetted equally and well for all oil mixes, the HP would be pretty much the same, and none would have spooge and probably not much excess smoke. You show oil mix does make a difference in jetting, but it is the jetting that determines the power.
I inherited my dad's two-stroke weedwhacker 9 years ago. The gas tank holds about a pint so I always put in 1/2 oz of oil per tank which is about a 31:1 fuel to oil ratio. It dripped spooge from the muffler for a long time but after awhile it lessened and now I only have to wipe up a drip once in a while. My Dad apparently was using too much oil and filled the muffler with spooge. Thanks for the spooge explanation.
The Quality of 2 stroke oil varies a lot and can make a difference as to what ratio is safe to use..
Never thought of it this way but your take on it makes perfect sense! Been having issues with fuelling on my trials bike, this has given me another way of looking at the problems! Big thumbs up!
Thanks Matt. Your videos are hands down some of the best out there.
In the 80's I had an RM125 & 80 bought right off the showroom floor, and everyone at the dealer recommended Bel Ray-MC1+ at 50 to 1 with 50% regular gas to unleaded. I always had perfect plugs and crisp performance. I loved that stuff !
That’s what my father used in his Honda Elsinore!
I've pulled down a few bikes using those ratios and they're dry inside. I prefer an oily engine.
Great video, you are correct! I’ve been running 32:1 - 4 ounces per gallon the entire life of my KX250 2-stroke as stated in the Owners Manual. You call it Service Manual, that’s the bigger one. I use Maxima Super M. Remember that when you first fire up a cold 2-stroke that is when it smokes the most until it warms up, that freaks people out probably. Also while a Castor or Bean oil is said to get some higher horsepower numbers it will gum up exhaust power valves as you mentioned. Plus the 2-stroke oil lubricates the entire bottom end of the engine along with the top end. Another reason to run the manufacturer 32:1 ratio!! Thanks for the awesome video!
Great video. I’ve been building two-stroke racing engines for the better part of 35 years. The highest horsepower output up to 250 cc is running 16 to 1 caster oil.
The highest hp two stroke engines can’t use castor oil! They use synthetic! If you’re still running castor oil then you’re not making big power!
@@needmoreboost6369
IDK...
Old guys usually know what's up
@@needmoreboost6369 he was building engines when you were still suckling mammies teat...
@@needmoreboost6369That's false, and there are only a few Synthetics that can approach the film strength of castor, especially under high load, high heat, extended high rpm operation.
Castor oil IS MADE for high hp two strokes and your top 2-stroke engine builders will tell you this.@@needmoreboost6369
Thank you for shedding light on this topic!
What a juicy topic!! I started out riding with a 200cc Zundapp in 1957 using a 20'1 ratio for oil. Fast forward a few years, it was 32:1 in my Bultacos of all types. Fast forward again, it was ~40:1 for chain saws I was servicing for a dealership. Somewhere in the middle, in '67 I toured to race the motocross inter-am series in Sedan, Ks, and had some good chatty times with Chris Lavery who was managing the CZ team for the tour and learned they were using some re-refined 30w automobile grade oil to mix for their factory CZs, don't know the ration but guess it was in the area of 24:1. I mix my own chain saw at 32:1 and it is trouble free and with modern oil, barely smokes. I liked Suzuki's oil injection systems back in the '70s and in our dealership, there were no oil failures in them. There is more available BTUs from oil, hence why diesels produce so much torque from a highly refined oil as fuel.
32:1 is a bit more then 3% oil mix with is pretty thicc but there is a clear difference between 2% and 3% oil mix 2% runs great, but i had like 3%++ and it felt fat...
Diesels don't produce more torque just because of the BTU difference, the difference is quite small. Diesels run high compression, high boost, usually a longer stroke, and can run a much richer air/fuel ratio than gas engines.
To really kill the argument/comparison, the Ford 7.3 gasser makes much more torque and nearly triple the HP of my non turbo 7.3 diesel. When compared to my turbo 7.3, they make about the same torque and the gasser makes about double the HP, and the gasser is doing it without boost.
I worked at Outboard Marine at the time one of the largest manufactures of 2 strokes in the world, when we did HP certification runs, we ran 12:1
No no no! You have to run 100/1 for power! Yuk. There’s the same armchair warriors in RC aircraft engine forums that have an expert that sez……..you know the rest of the story. I’ve seen Pennsoil tests on ultralight engines showing pistons and cylinders after thousands of hours of runtime. Unmanned Aerial Vehicles engine expert with decades of real time real life background. Bikes are not tuned like boats or cycles. Air cooled engines = read the damn plug dummy! More oil for initial break in with varied power loads to seat the rings and pistons. It’ll make black spots on the tail feathers and fuselage. 3-5 gallons it cleans up. Some start on petroleum to start, some start on pure synthetic. Good 2 stroke oil and don’t be afraid to use some if you want life. I start at 32 and when broken in 40 petrochemical, 50 synthetic. Never had issue one. And my aircraft cost $2-4 thousand each. Tune, look at the plug, and listen to it. That is if you know………
This is very informative, I was facing the same issue always the exhaust used to get gunk up with unburnt fuel esp oil, I'm running 60 ml per litre pennzoil 2 stroke oil on my 1975 250 cc Ideal Jawa Yezdi motorcycle.
Have downjetted it to 40 pilot jet from 50 now there the response is much better & there's no lag in acceleration as well . I tried 40 ml per litre as well but it was sucking up so fast & the motor was heating up as well so the sucking theory is also true, please keep up the good work 👍
I was a suspension development rider in the late 80s and early 90s. I knew half the factory riders and their mechanics as they often stayed at my neighbors house when on the east coast. Most factory teams used Maxima 727 or Castrol 747 oil. Sometimes they even poured it in bottles that looked like the company they represented.
When you add oil to a mixture it reduces the amount of gas in that mixture. That creates a leaner mixture by giving less gas to the amount of air. The amount of oil needed to make maximum power depends on the amount of RPMs the bike runs at. So a fast rider needs more oil and a smaller engine usually revs higher. I can remember Mitch Payton recommended a 16:1 mixture for a kid named Ricky Carmichael when he was on a 60 CC bike. Most factory 125 were running 20:1. My personal CR500 I ran 36:1.
When they say 727 it mean 7 parts synthetic, 2 parts Castrol and 7 parts normal oil. The Castrol oil was considered the best sealing oil that increased horsepower. The only problem with carbon I ever saw was trail riders and the little 50 CC Yamaha bikes the 4-7 year olds rode. The exhaust port would build up carbon.
This could be the dumbest comment outside of the poster of this video that I've ever heard. More oil makes "LESS" power as fuel is for power production and oil for lubrication. Oil doesn't burn cleanly and smoothly it burns quicker and provides less power application to the power strike as fuel. If oil was better at power production why even introduce fuel. And no Mitch Payton did not run ANY of his bikes at 16-1 no matter what size or who was riding. The speed of a rider has less than zero effect on mixture and you have absolutely no knowledge of what you speak. Where do you people come up with this stupidity.
Simple and good theories. Good explanation! Thank you Matt!
Spot on dude !!! I'm going to send this to all my buddy's that wont listen to me on this issue.
Awesome video brother... that definitely clears up a little issue of running rich on one of my bikes.... thanks again brother...
Thanks Matt that was very helpful. Keep up the good work.
Brilliant. I've run 5 rd 350s .. 400s..in my illustrious career. with all on YAMA oil pump. Been Mixing gas with 1993 WR 250 YAmmie Bush Pig,, and now a KATO 2008 xcw. Oh Gawd STILL LEARNING!! Love your insurance " How To " ads as well. Good On yah. Dave Boulder CO USA
Great video! I enjoyed your explanation and views on this subject.
Excellent, I needed to ear someone talking about this, good job !
👍
Wait a minute..... It is not the thickness of the liquid that is altering your jetting when you change the oil ratio. It is the fact that when there is less oil there is more fuel and when there is more oil there is less fuel. Leaner makes more power which is why running more oil makes more power. it has nothing to do with the thickness of the fuel mixture. Lets say we have a tank 1 gallon when we mix the oil at 32:1 we have to use 4 oz of oil. the rest of the gallon is gasoline. Now at 20:1 we have to add 6.4oz of oil. We now have LESS gasoline for a given volume. Therefor running leaner. Thickness does not matter. Also, oil is made to burn off at a given rate. When you alter the ratio you are affecting the level of standing oil in the crankcase. Add more oil the level is higher , add less and the level is lower. You should always run what the manufacturer says so the engine has the level of oil in it that is was designed for. Also, never do jet changes without doing a plug check. Go out to a flat and straight area and run the bike wide open. Then after a few seconds of steady full throttle hit the kill switch and pull in the clutch. When you stop remove the plug and look at it. It should be a toasty tan marshmellow color. Too light is too lean and you are endangering your motor.. Wet and dark is too rich. After finding the correct main jet size this way next adjust your pilot jet so the bike idles well and runs good at very low rpm. Once that is done then adjust your needle height so it transitions smoothly between the two. You now have a properly jetted engine.
I really like both thoughts on it. I have to say I agree with you. However thicker liquids spray differently too. I am a bit confused I have had a couple 2 strokes and now recently purchased a new one. I ran 32:1 in the beginning on my 1st one always had sponge. I was not a good rider and didn’t run high rpm’s. It seems to me that all my bikes liked a 50:1 perhaps it’s always been my jetting. I changed top ends 125 at 20hrs my 250 at 40 hrs. This is definitely something that I will visit on my new 125. Thanks for your comment and thanks to Mathew for this video.
I want to correct two points you've made, as I believe you're incorrect.
The reason more oil makes more power is sealing. If it was simply up to the stoic ratio we could just run richer or leaner for the same effect. My dyno results, and more importantly, the results of Mcculloch and Yamaha engineers prove that more oil always results in more power and they determined it was due to sealing. They actually experimented up to 12:1 ratios with no detrimental effects until which there were no more benefits to be had.
Secondly, I don't own a dyno but I rent them regularly. Lean mixtures are more responsive, but more fuel always means more power. If emissions weren't a factor, I usually run at 11-12:1 for maximum power. 13:1 is cleaner and generally works better, but is down on power everywhere. You have your understanding backwards, rich for power and lean for RPM
When jetting and specifically doing jetting runs running on the flat is ok but there is not enough of a load.find a hill deep sand or drag the rear break.more oil will not seal the rings more at running rpms the raise in compression is more unburned volume.if your power valve is getting stuck then your jetting is wrong and or your running your bike to slow.two strokes are designed to run at peak tourque and peak h.p and stay between the two.
@@RyanMcIntyre A lean engine will accelerate more briskly and "appear" to be making more power. That was my point. Tuning by ear is foolhardy. do a plug check. You will not be able to tell by ear when you have gone too lean.
I have a 1988 TRX250R and a 1985 FL350R Odyssey. For the longest time I run AmsOil Dominator at 24:1 with 93 octane pump gas and AmsOil Octane Booster. Never had any engine issues ever. The ATVs never bog and pull hard when accelerating. The TRX has a Nacs Racing Keihin PJ36 and the Odyssey has a Duncan Racing Keihin PWK35.
24:1 with Dominator sounds like it would leave a lot of gunk in the exhaust. I used to run my KX250 on Dominator mixed at around 36:1 and it would sometimes be a little sloppy (probably due to not ripping it enough)
I run klotz in my old 2000 KDX -it’s supposed to be 32 / 1 . Rejetted the carb and have been running it at 50/1 since , that was back in 2001 with no problems .
Great video! Back when I used to race years ago AMZOIL Dominator was the hot oil on the block. We ran 50:1 per the Amzoil specs. Loved the MILKSHAKE analogy you made to help folks picture what's happening. Just subscribed to your channel.
So much good info here, I was thinking all the opposite, thanks for clearing that up. Good and very informative video. Thanks
Thanks for explaining this simply and clearly. You address the debate of advancements in oil technology does not mean that you should reduce oil.
It should be noted that your reference to jet size applies to premix, not direct 2T oil injection.
Great video👍
Great video, just bought an RM 250 and when I was growing up more oil rather then not enough, but thanks for saying why! I just don’t understand want to burn less oil if it needs oil to run in the first place!
I run a 32:1
Thank goodness some people trip when I'm a 2 stroke engine builder for 18 years now and have rebuilt a ton of engine get asked what oil an gas should I run ,,they automatically say what about this type or that type, ,an just ignore what iv told them,,thanks again for your time and effort with this video
Yes!! Yamalube 2R! That's all I've used for years. Engine is always clean clean!
Good video, good explanation.
Another way I like to think of it is that the plug color tells you your ratio of gasoline to air (Not fuel to air) difference being is Fuel is the total of gasoline and oil.
Thus if you reduce oil, then your fuel has a smaller percentage of oil and a larger percentage of gasoline thus making your burn richer (more gasoline to air). Which can explain why when people reduce oil to remove spooge, it actually increases it.
Finally someone else referenced that article, I beleive it was written by either Kevin Cameron and or Gordon Jennings and both of those people were or are highly touted in their field IE smart dudes. I also believe that they may have optimized jetting to run each ratio so that means what they saw were true readings and not the oil thinning the gas or diluting the gas.
Man your explanation is very good. Thank you for the video.
Great video and great explanation! People think no matter how much oil you use that your bike is burning the same amount of fuel. I tell people the more oil you mix you will have less fuel will go through the jets because the oil takes up space in the jet.
Great video Matt. Getting the engine to run hot enough to burn clean in all applications (in many cases you can't) and throttle positions is such a key talking point. Factory two-stroke dirt bike engines are not designed for low load which is exactly what happens in trail applications.
I've read the same paper and will also add that the Aprilia race team did similar testing in the 90's on their two-stroke GP bikes and got the same results. Why folks choose premature engine wear over a little tailpipe grime I don't understand. Hopefully, this info will help prolong the life of some engines!
Thanks. I'm glad we are on the same page :)
Lots of KTM's are designed for low rpm trail use right out of the box. Techi single tract is what most of the hare scrambles consist of I race. Hard to get out of 3rd gear sometimes.
@@HTMR a bunch of us guys have been trying to say use more oil in old McCulloch chainsaws from 32.8 cc's to 160 cc's.
Medium speed, low load is exactly what factory two strokes are designed for. 90% of all dirt bikes sold will "never" see a track. That's why when a bike is raced all things have to be optimized. To include suspension settings, tires, rider position with bars and engine tuning. I really don't know where these assumptions come from but maybe a talk with a factory rep will clear up some of the confusion.
Great video…..also don’t forget that the oil lubricates the the main, big, small end bearings plus it helps cool ie draws the heat out as well.
I was active with model aircraft engines for decades and it was a known factor that the oil was carrying away heat from the engine as an unburnt liquid, whether with alcohol (or gasoline in the old ignition engines that were common until the early '50s) - made for very messy oil residue on the airframes though. When I got my first four cycle "nitro" engine, they were using the 5:1 oil ratios as for the two strokes but I elected to cut the oil in half and ran several four cycle engines (nitro/alcohol) with no adverse effects whatever - those engines are lubricated by blow-by only. Castor oils were the favored lubricants until quality synthetics became available but even with that, some users used some percentage of castor for their engines, maybe only for the sake of tradition as castor oils are famously difficult to clean.
i needed this ! thanks brooo ! loved this video to the fullest!
When I started using 2-stroke ICEs in model aircraft back in the 1960s we ran 30% castor oil and they loved it. These days, thanks to decent synthetics, we can run as little as 12% but we have the advantage of an adjustable needle that lets you lean out the mixture when using a lower oil ratio. Some premix fuel manufacturers use cheap PAG oils and even at 20% they can still cause piston-scuffing but a decent ester-based or ester-blend oil will allow lower ratios to be used safely.
Very true i use klotz techniplate blend with 30% castor.
You guys ran 3:1 oil premix?
@@JunkCCCP Yep, on model airplane engines. Because they used plain bearing (bushed) connecting rods and crankshaft journals they needed *lots* of lubrication.
Good information brother great video anyone who is wondering about anything this man just said he is absolutely 100% correct I will add to this DO NOT JET YOUR BIKE OR CHANGE OWNER MANUAL OIL MIXTURE UNTIL AFTER THE FIRST 2 GALLONS OF FULE HAS BEEN BURNT for real break in is very important it will seat the rings and crank bearings and ring seal it determines the life span and power output of the motor .
I ran 50/1 pump gas and pro 2 silkoline for years no problems no sploog....very clean rebuilds after 60 or 70 hrs
Well explained Matthew👍
1996 KTM 360 EXC
I enjoyed your video
informative easy to
understand. Thanks.
Great video and 100% correctly. Always follow the manufacturer ratio and jet accordingly for sure.
Thnx Matt for the video, great job explaining cause and effect. People just need to keep in mind for any action there's a reaction. Reading spark plugs and chopping is a great way to stay on top of jetting, especially a full and 1/2 throttle chop. I run Castor 927 In my 09 Banshee and it runs great at 32 to 1.
When I raced I used oil ratio to adjust jetting... I had it spot on at 32 to 1 @ 3200 feet, in high altitudes I'd mix oil at 28 to 1 to lean the mixture at low altitudes I'd mix at 40 to 1 to keep the bike crisp and clean... the more oil you put in gas it takes the place of gas and leans the mixture.most people get this backwards.
Great minds think alike. Down to the exact numbers!
Another informative vid. Explained so the “man in the street” can understand. Nice one buddy. 👍🏻
I run 50:1 with motul 800 for years and my pistons looks awesome
But are you leaving 'power' on the table?
32:1 enough oil on the ring to keep it lubricated and not have little to no smoke
Great video, I run 16 to 1 sometimes 20 to 1 on my motorized bicycle engine, smoke when cold but when hot is perfect we all know this engines will damage piston rings etc when not enough oil also for cooling never goes higher than 100 degrees Celsius on a hot day, oil quality also very important I use Castrol Power Racing 2T
Those things *NEED* high oil ratios to run decently and last. (Especially the crank bearings. Those are shielded by the crankshaft.)
I always ran 20:1 ratio in my Suzuki RMs when I raced in the 1980s and never had an engine failure. I also ran 20:1 in my Yamaha IT through the 1990s for 10 years without a rebuild and it was mostly used in the sand hills.
nobody should ever blow anything up at 20 to 1 , its more oil than anything needs, what were they old free air bikes? they needed more oil
@@sendit1158we ran 40-50 to 1 in our late 70’s RM’s with no problems whatsoever. Air cooled motors though. Maybe the oil kept the cylinders cooler.
@sendit1158 I have a 1986 yamaha it 200 and the original service manual says to use a 24-1 ratio
More oil in two stroke fuel can actually increase the compression due to the extra oil creating a better seal in the cylinder.
Awesome job! Funny you mentioned the article about the PE 250. I've got a PE 175. That's why I watched this video
Amen to that. Proper jetting is paramount.
Honda did a study years ago the most power is made right at the point of plug fouling. The recommended ratio is for wide open/ maximum use. Average or easy use can get away with less oil.
Great explanation. Thanks
Legend..!! Well explained 👏🤘
You present this all very well and I'd be inclined to believe it if I hadn't already seen equally well presented arguments for the other side!
So as it stands, I am no closer to understanding what the truth is.
Thanks for making the video and adding to the discussion with more than just anecdotes.
Good content man. I have been running Yamalube 2s in my 98 RM 250 and it suggested 44:1 but I've been mixing at 40:1. Seems to be ok. The main jet is stock size with a fatty pipe and FMF shortie silencer. No spooge and seems to run great. My favorite oil was Suzuki CCI. don't make it anymore but sugg mix ratio at 24:1. Smoked more but never had a top end issue. God bless
Great video. Never ceases to amaze me how many people do the opposite. My arctic cat 440 race sled ran klotz techniplate at 32 to 1 premix and made 95 horsepower at the crank. Would run all day and no fouled plugs. Some radar run guys would run 25 to 1. A typical oil injection system on a sled runs at 100 to 1 at idle and 32 to 1 at w.o.t.
Yamaha injection runs right up to 20 to 1 at full throttle. There is a reason their engines last a long time and thats 2 fold, 1 is better quality components and the other main reason as they use more oil.
Great to see someone who finally gets it. The increased power is from both the improved ring seal and the increased lubrication on the crank. Another fact that is not well known is 2 stroke oil mitigation through the engine. Most people wrongly think the oil and gas stay mixed together and burn together. Reality is the oil falls out of suspension and drops into the crank and then can take up to 1/2 hour to make it's way out the pipe. A great way to see if you are using the right amount of oil for your riding is to check residual oil level at the bottom of the crank. Skewer stick works good for this, should be 2 -3mm. More you need less oil, less you need more.
I have run 25:1 in my 2 strokes for years of racing and riding. Since I switched, not only does the bike run better, but top ends and cranks last much longer.
I haven't been able to find the link to that old oil test for years, buried in the internet. Could you provide the link?
www.bridgestonemotorcycle.com/documents/oilpremix6.pdf
Interesting stuff!
very interesting about the oil in the bottom end, I didn't know it accumulated there. im going to do the skewer test
there must be a difference in american fuel and europe cause last time i ran 3% oil mix in my banshee it was bogging low end and lack of speed, i went back to 2% and not it runs good again...
IS LESS. MORE? IS MORE. LESS? IS MORE. MORE? IS LESS. LESS?
www.bridgestonemotorcycle.com/documents/oilpremix6.pdf
Excellent information. well done.
Excellent video Matthew, I read a comparison test from Husqvarna from the early 80's where they tested synthetic & castor. They found the top-end lasted longer with the castor but the crank lasted longer with the synthetic, I don't remember exactly how much.
Yup why I run synth top end is cheaper to replace
I ran my YZ 125 at 32 to 1 with Maxima super M and it ran clean ,and the power valve was clean also so I"m with you on oil ratio
I would reccomend reading the bottle before you mix. Its easy. And the manufacturer will reccomend the optimal ratio..ex..on my 250r I run my favourite oil maxima 927 at 40:1. I raced, ridden with this ratio on my 125, 2fiddy and 500 with no problems..🤓👍
Was always told to run what oil manafqcture recommends because kawasaki recommends say 32 to 1 but thats with there oil but different oils are designed for different ratios
I always ran 30:1 mix in my mid 80's suzuki RM80 and I raced the crap out of that bike without ever having any issues at all; I rode that bike on the 40 acre farm and would host unofficial motocross races on a track my dad let us make on the 2 acre side field that had too many ruts and was hills for 4 years straight while in high school. I rode it all year round, even in the winter for 4 years straight and my younger brothers did the same after I joined the military. It was such a fun bike. I used the exact same mix in my chainsaw and never had any issues, but when we used that chainsaw, we had it pegged as well cutting trees and logs and didn't really ever use it for lite duty.
Well said, 100% correct 💯
Interesting, good job with the video, I learned something today lol
Great video. My vintage Hodaka is spooging bad and I think it may be running too rich. Originally, the factory recommended a 25:1 ratio, but a lot of people said that with better oils today that 40/50:1 was fine. Every time I ride around it makes a huge mess. Nothing crazy, I just ride around the neighborhood a couple times but every time I do my bike is covered in spooge! Thanks for the clear explanation!
Run 32:1 boss I recommend for the best off the shelf readily available 2 stroke oil is Motul 800 or 700. Personally on all my 2 strokes I run amsoil dominator it’s the best proven with test multiple times coats piston cylinder and prevents carbon build up in power valves. Lmk how it goes
@@CammedRacingCo I'm confused on your comment. You say Motul is best but you run Dominator?
I believe he is saying that he thinks Motul is the best "off the shelf" meaning readily available, where as Amsoil Dominater is usually a lot harder to find. I have experienced the same scenario. @@billterri4889
Hey man thanks for the videos great information. Please do let me know what ratio I should use in Yamaha 2 stroke 1981 100 cc ? Thank you
I've been running 50:1 for decades without a problem with Motorex or Redline. I'm always amazed how well oiled the bottom end is. Yes, if your bike is running rich, you can add oil to make it run leaner. You can also go down a jet size, or lower the needle depending on what circuit is running muddy.
Your are correct he is over thinking.modern oils are designed to run 50 to 1 running the oil to rich is a waste of oil and very expensive if your premixing snowmobiles or watercraft.I wouldn’t run the castrol 927 if it was free
@@johnhopperstad2785 Ya, but there's no better smelling 2 stroke exhaust than one running castor bean oil.
@@tomdoe4295 I knwo, I ran it when I was a youngster in my first 125. Smelled amazing! God I miss that, but I'm a synthetic oil guy now...
Been preaching this for decades. Nice to see someone else gets I.
Well said. I mix Yamalube in my Yamaha GP1200cc waverunner. It's had some mods done. Maybe I should start mixing at 32:1 instead of 40:1 ??
Great Video always so many opions on this topic!.....I have a 2007 Honda CR 250 with hundreds of hours of riding and still have not changed my top end " I know F**KN crazy right!!! I do mostly trail riding, installed a 8lb Steahly flyweight on it and an 18in rear tire/rim. Changed rear sproket and its an awesome modified Enduro Bike ..I have been running racing fuel 100 octane and Yamalube 2R since day 1 and have a Lectron carb NO JETTING ! and love IT ...I run it at 40:1, always have even when I run wide open in the desert! Going to replace the top end soon just for the fun of it and see what the piston and cylnder look like!!! I change my gear oil every 3-5 rides as well ...I get a little spoodge evry once in a while, thats probably when I am doing crazy downhills at super low RPM's ..I try to alwys keep the RPM's up while doing so by keeping the clutch pulled in and hitting the throttle hard as much as possible! Should I try 32:1 or just stick to 40:1 since I mostly do single track riding ??????
When I was racing shifter karts the engine builder for the TM125 I was running recommended 20 to if I wanted to keep from having to rebuild the bottom end on a regular basis. I think most of the guys ran theirs the same way because they all smoked pretty good in the staging area where we were warming them up prior to going out on the track, but after running the two laps to heat the tires up prior to the start of the race the smoke was mostly gone.
Pay attention to the flash points of oils as well. Makes a difference in left over residue. That number is usually not readily avaiiable but quality oils will usually make sure flash points are paid attention to a little closer than lower priced higher volume oils. Good video.
Total BS. You want oil residue. When the engine comes apart, you want all those parts coated in oil. Oil cushions the piston to cylinder, and all bearings, oil seals the piston and the ring to the cylinder to achieve not only protection, but also increased HP.
@@truthbetold8425 Read the comment again! Nowhere in there did I say you do not want residue. Actually it is your comment that is BS anyway due to the fact that you cannot burn the fuel/oil in the crankcase side anyway! Think about it. Two strokes are designed that way so that the rotating parts plus anything below the rings will remain lubricated. Only what is above the ring, on the compression/combustion side will be burned. Flash point makes a difference in how clean of a burn you get. Agree totally on never running leaner than specs on oil.
People say they want less oil because they want more fuel. They are right that they'll get more fuel but not like they think. I did the math and it answered the question for me.
The difference in the amount of oil between 30 to 1 and 60 to 1 is literally 100%. BUT the change in the amount of available gas is only 1.5%.
Your the only one with their head on straight about this in my opinion.
At 50:1 with a 400jet, 8ish oil parts to 392ish fuel parts can pass through. At 30:1 with a 400jet, 12ish oil parts to 382ish fuel parts can pass through.
If the motor liked a 400 jet w 50:1 it's going to need a 410 jet with 30:1 to run the same.
Yes!! Yamalube 2R! That's all I've used for years. Engine is always clean clean!
My understanding on two stroke mix is, use what they say or a little more. If it’s smoking a lot it’s not from the oil it’s from too much fuel and oil… So a jet change is needed… Guy I know has ran 2 stroke race engines on Dyno and more oil made more power… Think they were at 28:1 optimum power. Then jetted for more power
So many people need to watch this video
I run a lot of 2 stroke power equipment, I’m glad to see someone explain properly the benefits of mixing rich. I’ve been mixing 32:1 or 20:1 for years and haven’t blown an engine.
I run 40:1 in my hopped up chainsaws. At 32:1 it slobbers oil out of the exhaust and I get a lot of carbon buildup on the top of the piston. 40:1 seems to be a happy medium for good lubrication in the tuning. It's probably different for a liquid cooled 250cc engine, but for my 72cc ported saw, it does amazing. And stihl recommends 50:1, so 40:1 offers me a bit of a safety margin over factory recommendations. I think quality of oil makes much more of a difference, which is why I run Klotz supertechniplate.
@@noclass2gun342 I’ve noticed some oil dribbling if I don’t run my machines hard, but I frequently have them going full throttle. Although my 1960s chainsaw does smoke like a freight train but at least I know that it has plenty of oil.
@@evanchapmanfanman well most power equipment was designed to be operated at WOT under load, so that makes total sense. I just prefer to push that envelope with my stuff.
@@noclass2gun342 fair enough, I’ve always been an Italian tune up kind of mechanic anyway.
@@noclass2gun342 I've worked on 700cc liquid cooled twins ran at full throttle for nearly 800 hours towing air ad banners that were ran at 40:1 and looked beautiful. use a quality JTSO certified premix at 40:1 and it clears up fouling and spooge immensely while supplying adequate lubrication still.
Great info. Got me thinking
Great video. Just to think, you basically are burning the same amount of gasoline due to jetting and oil so the oil gives you the better seal for longevity and power.
I didn't know Michael Douglas new so much about 2 stroke oils. 😂 Love the channel man.
Man you are like the 10th person that has said that LOL.
in my snowmobile (500cc air cooled twin with oil injection) I notice a very noticeable increase in power when I add .5 to .75 litre of oil to the gas. I put synthetic oil in the injection tank and common 10w-30 in the fuel. Huge difference in power and top end rpm.
100% accurate information.
What are the best oils to run in your high performance 2-stroke engine today?
I know a company who did a lot of durability dyno testing for the best oil they can find on their 30cc HP RC boat racing engines (Quick Draw in Weed Ca.). Their cylinders and pipes make great power and they were having problems with the lower rod end bearing cage rubbing on the ID of the rod bearing surface, so they were forced to test oils. They make up to 9hp at 16,000 rpm, and held the engine at that rpm wide open for a 1/2 hr on their water brake dyno to test the oils. To date, the best oils they have found are the motul Kart GP 2-t oil, (fully synthetic, ester based), and the Klotz Supertechniplate (80% syn, 20% castor oil), with the Motul (very expensive) running a bit cleaner than the Klotz (much more affordable). I will trust their testing (pretty sharp guys), before any "word of mouth hear say".
thanks for the info
I have a 1963 Ossa 160 t2 and I run it at 20:1 and it burns clean being what it is there isn't much information on it be it internet or anywhere else but I found that works well enough it doesn't smoke much and kicks up first or second time and the plug is at least 20 years old (barn find bad boy) but I don't feel the need to change it because it still works
You did a pretty good vid. You and I are on par for this knowledge. There is so many crap channels on YT, and you are not one of them. :)
The bottom like is, and we agree. Use a good oil at a 32:1 mix (usually the manufactures recommendations, and more RPM does require more oil), and then jet the carb.
This maybe the best vid I have seen about this subject on YT. I bet Tom Morgan, Eric Gore, Dave Miller, (and the like), would agree. :)
Your headline threw me off a bit though. A bit off the premise of proper jetting making the best power.
It is so real what you said i do the same with my artic
cat f7
Thanks for the explanation .I just bought a kx100 and getting spooge . last ride it leaked out of the rubber connector . running 32:1 will look at the jetting
Im right behind you with my yz250...I was headed towards jetting next anyway
The ratio of oil, in the fuel, also affects the boiling / vapourisation point temperature, of the mixture.
Pure unleaded gasoline boils at 35 degrees C, E5 boils at 18 degrees C, E10 even lower, etc. Adding various mixing ratios of 2 stroke (or other oils) in the fuel, raises the boiling point dependant on the ratio. More oil to fuel gives a bigger hike to the boiling point temperature.
2 strokes run hot and give more power if the fuel has a boiling point above 35 degrees C, because of cleaner combustion.
The manufacturer's recommended ratio has been tested to take all this into account. So when a rider heeds the dumb advice, from some internet "expert" and runs his engine with (engine killing) weak fuel oil ratios, he's not only under lubricating his engine, but also screwing up the combustion properties of the fuel mixture in the cylinder, hence the loss of performance.
I speak from 42 years of riding, tuning & fixing 2 strokes.
so does that mean if a manufacturer recommend a 50:1 ratio, i should increase the oil to 30:1 for extra lubrication in the engine ? sorry, i'm still learning. please advise. thanks my friend.
Yamaha and McCulloch determined this in the late 60s, and it was written about in detail in Gordon Jenning's book. The only limit is spark and your desire to clean.
My son and I raced Motocross for years. Every engine builder that we went to specified at least 32 to 1. Exact same thing you said tighter ring seal. And sometimes we would lean the jetting out because lean is mean. Just to the point where she starts to squeak once in a while. Lean fart as we called it, very fine line.
were those builders addressing synthetic or regular oils. Makes a huge difference.
Very helpful great video. Need help! My yz125 doesn’t hit the powerband. I cleaned my power valves and full top end still wont hit band it just revs out
Thanks! Thanks I tell everybody oil‘s compression everybody should do a lot of reading back in the 60s into the 70s all the two-stroke go kart racing that went on out in California there’s some really good books out there . Two-stroke performance tuning A. Graham Bell
Nice video man, what are you recommend for my 2001 125kx 2 stroke 32.1 or 40.1? Also, my Exhaust has oil
Thank you so much brother..
Spot on, I've actually had a few people question the ratios I run and I just cite that same study on the Suzuki PE's or explain it to them using the mixing chart and how an afr works. People seem to get a bit confused when you start to talk about multiple ratios like fuel/oil and air/fuel combining lol.