How Tandy fixed IBM's keyboard layout

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  • čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
  • The Tandy 2000 was not a successful computer, but its keyboard corrected the mistakes of the IBM PC's keyboard, and helped influence the design of the industry-standard keyboard layout that nearly all desktop PC and Mac users type on today.
    Time flow:
    0:00 Introduction
    1:40 The shift stretch and return reach
    4:39 What the F-keys?
    5:38 Under lock and arrow keys
    7:44 Other keys
    8:55 IBM finally got it right
    11:29 Influential flops
    Voice of Bill Gates provided by This Does Not Compute: ‪@ThisDoesNotCompute‬
    #SepTandy #MechanicalKeyboard #VintageComputer
  • Věda a technologie

Komentáře • 203

  • @themaritimegirl
    @themaritimegirl Před 9 měsíci +96

    I hope luck brings you a Tandy 2000 someday - a video about it could be very cool.

  • @hielmyz
    @hielmyz Před 9 měsíci +17

    Suprised by Colin's voice, didn't expect that.
    Later I read the description to confirm, ah yes it's him.

  • @c128stuff
    @c128stuff Před 9 měsíci +39

    Sysreq was quite used in large corporate environments running 3270 emulators on PCs. It had no use in the 'consumer' and small business markets, but that was not where IBM was making its money.

  • @tabbyapplecat
    @tabbyapplecat Před 9 měsíci +17

    Hey! Be nice to the humble backtick! It’s used fairly frequently in BASH, JavaScript, MySQL and probably others as well! Although I agree that’s definitely NOT where it belongs.

    • @jasonschannel
      @jasonschannel Před 9 měsíci

      Agreed! But to be fair, bash, JS, and MySQL all came after 1984! I know SQL itself is older but i'm not sure if it's original implementations used the backtick 🤔

  • @JasonBoon02
    @JasonBoon02 Před 9 měsíci +4

    Didn't expect the crossover with Colin from This Does Not Compute... very cool!

  • @F40PH-2CAT
    @F40PH-2CAT Před 9 měsíci +7

    Nice Swing Out Sister cameo 😂

  • @rubeusvombatus
    @rubeusvombatus Před 9 měsíci +23

    Interesting, I had always thought the layout on the Model M (and indeed many modern keyboards) was entirely IBM's original design.... You learn something new every day I guess

  • @marsandbars
    @marsandbars Před 9 měsíci +17

    If Bill Gates actually sounded like TDNC, I feel like he would be even more successful than he already is.

    • @samsthomas
      @samsthomas Před 9 měsíci +3

      LOL. I was checking the comments to see if I was crazy thinking that voiceover sounded like Collin.

    • @brady4222
      @brady4222 Před 9 měsíci +1

      Me Also

  • @noferblatz
    @noferblatz Před 9 měsíci +54

    Actually, I think the DEC VT keyboards contributed more to correcting IBM's shortcomings.The DEC Rainbow was close. This may have been because of the popularity of DEC VT terminals, which were extremely popular prior to the PC revolution.

    • @vwestlife
      @vwestlife  Před 9 měsíci +30

      But IBM didn't seem to care about copying any of its features until the Tandy 1000 was introduced in 1984, and then IBM hastily introduced the Model M in mid-1985. So yes, DEC did have the right idea, but it took competition from Tandy to get IBM to change their keyboard layout.

    • @FindecanorNotGmail
      @FindecanorNotGmail Před 9 měsíci +15

      @@vwestlife You're forgetting the Model F 122-key, released in *1983* .
      It's layout is closer to the Model M's than the Tandy's is.
      It has cursor keys (albeit in a cross), a 3×2 cluster above them, Enter on the numeric keypad and two _additional_ rows of _twelve_ function keys each

    • @kumarp3074
      @kumarp3074 Před 9 měsíci +6

      Also I believe the IBM terminals were the first to even include function keys. So Tandy copied IBM in that instance. Everyone was copying each other in the early days of computing. So it wasn't unusual for one company to take a good idea from another.

    • @alysdexia
      @alysdexia Před 9 měsíci +1

      @@FindecanorNotGmail Its; behind

    • @vwestlife
      @vwestlife  Před 9 měsíci +11

      @@FindecanorNotGmail I didn't forget it, I just decided it wasn't relevant to the topic. The Model F Battleship was only used with the 3270 PC, not ordinary PCs.

  • @billv4987
    @billv4987 Před 9 měsíci +6

    That Tandy keyboard has a very good feel for typing. The one I have is still going great on my Tandy 1000 after all these years.

  • @philpots48
    @philpots48 Před 9 měsíci +18

    I used a software editor in DOS. When using the scroll lock, the cursor would stay fixed and the text would scroll up or down as I pressed the up or down arrow key. I think it also worked in a spreadsheet program I used to use.

    • @vwestlife
      @vwestlife  Před 9 měsíci +10

      Yes, that's how it's supposed to work. But most people never use it.

    • @JesperD87
      @JesperD87 Před 9 měsíci +10

      AFAIK, the Scroll Lock key still works when using MS Excel or Libreoffice Calc

    • @kaitlyn__L
      @kaitlyn__L Před 9 měsíci +5

      @@JesperD87it always came up in my schools’ computer classes. Someone would unintentionally press scroll lock in Excel or insert in Word, and get awfully confused why they kept having to manually scroll with the bars or were erasing their text while typing new stuff. Only some of the teachers knew, so sometimes they’d just have to put up with it!

    • @bland9876
      @bland9876 Před 8 měsíci

      ​@@kaitlyn__LI cannot think of a single good use for the insert key so it can go f off. Also as far as I'm where it works inside of CZcams if you're using a desktop computer.

  • @kpanic23
    @kpanic23 Před 9 měsíci +9

    Regarding tower cases:
    The IBM AT (model 5170), introduced in 1984, had a tower stand available as an accessory as well, you could even rotate the IBM badge on the front of the case so it wasn't on its side when standing upright.
    My dad had his AT on the floor upright back then, with the chunky red power switch on the top :)

    • @vwestlife
      @vwestlife  Před 9 měsíci +5

      The Tandy 2000 also has a rotatable badge.

    • @kpanic23
      @kpanic23 Před 9 měsíci +3

      @@vwestlife That's awesome!
      This should be a much more common feature.
      I have later PC cases that can be used either flat or upright, but they lazily decided to put the logo at a 45 degree angle...

  • @bobblum5973
    @bobblum5973 Před 9 měsíci +21

    I think both IBM and DEC ran into the situation of having too broad a product line. Both also made terminals that used the same style keyboards as their PC-style products. The DEC Rainbow layout was the same as the VT-220/-240/-241 terminals and later VAXstation workstations. The PF1-PF4 keys in the application keypad area needed to be there for backward compatibility with their venerable VT-100, and having dedicated Help and Do keys were written in to many of Digital's applications. The F1-F5 keys were used by the terminals to get into setup mode, or send X-On/X-Off flow control characters for a Hold Screen function.
    I remember the Tandy 2000, and have pointed out their use of the F11 & F12 keys. The quad-density 5.25-inch floppy drives were actually a good technology choice until IBM stuck a fork in the road with the 1.2MB floppy and set a new standard.

    • @defaultuserid1559
      @defaultuserid1559 Před 9 měsíci +4

      That's how I remember it too. I started on VT-52s and thought the VT-100 was amazing when we got them in along with our first VAX. I still have one of those rubber overlays secretaries used to put over the numeric keypad for word processing functions.

    • @eDoc2020
      @eDoc2020 Před 9 měsíci +4

      Small note: those DEC systems didn't just use the same keyboard layout, they used the exact same LK201 keyboard. The only difference was the legends in the window. IIRC it wasn't obvious how to change the legends without damage but I'm sure it was possible.

    • @bobblum5973
      @bobblum5973 Před 9 měsíci +1

      @@defaultuserid1559 Was that the WPS or WPS-Plus layout? 😃
      WPS was DEC's Word Processing System editor, used for stand-alone word processor hardware or on a VAX running the VMS OS. WPS-Plus was an enhanced version, taking advantage of improvements in the VT terminals and related printers.
      (And yes, it was often pronounced as "whoops" and "whoops plus"! 🤭)

    • @bobblum5973
      @bobblum5973 Před 9 měsíci +2

      @@eDoc2020 If I recall there were legends on the keyboard from the factory, then sort of an overlay strip with different ones.
      There were variations of the keyboard that had colored keycaps, like a PF1 colored "gold" for the WPS and EDT editors.

    • @defaultuserid1559
      @defaultuserid1559 Před 9 měsíci

      @@bobblum5973 Probably the original WPS since these were early days for the VAX. They went to WPS Plus later because they wanted to start using the LN03 laser printer. Mac users also wanted to use the networked LN03s since not everyone could get a LaserWriter approved.

  • @wmalden
    @wmalden Před 9 měsíci +3

    As someone who used IBM terminals at work for 30 years, I’m sure I typed a few million keystrokes on that later model M keyboard with the F keys across the top. As I recall, “system request” allowed one to get a second screen to log in to and do work on. I loved the feel of those IBM keyboards. ⌨️

  • @letsseewherethisgoes
    @letsseewherethisgoes Před 9 měsíci +3

    Oh man, the DEC Rainbow 100. We had one as a hand-me-down and I only ever got the "Learning" disk working, which was basically just an ad for the machine. The disk drives shared a spindle so the lower disk went in upside down (which 5-7 year old me never figured out in the 90's).
    We got rid of it in a basement purge in probably the early 2000's. Wish I knew enough to hang onto it.

  • @paullee107
    @paullee107 Před 9 měsíci +2

    Great video explanation - when you were saying Tandy computer benefits I was screaming 'graphics!!' - but you were just saving the best for last. :) cheers!

  • @JeffreyPiatt
    @JeffreyPiatt Před 9 měsíci +3

    Tandy inventor of the first gamer keyboard.

  • @AeroModule
    @AeroModule Před 9 měsíci +9

    that "grave" key is now very frequently used in javascript/typescript as the backtick character for template literals. also used elsewhere in computer science.

    • @davidbono9359
      @davidbono9359 Před 9 měsíci +3

      Also used to apply "code" formatting in Markdown documents.

    • @AeroModule
      @AeroModule Před 9 měsíci

      @@davidbono9359 yep and for surrounding table and schema names in MySQL

    • @nickwallette6201
      @nickwallette6201 Před 9 měsíci

      Handy in SQL to disambiguate table and field names.

    • @franciscocastro4017
      @franciscocastro4017 Před 8 měsíci

      @@nickwallette6201 standard SQL uses double quotes (not backticks) to quote table, columns and identifiers. As far as I know MySQL is the only one doing that.

    • @alexhajnal107
      @alexhajnal107 Před 7 měsíci

      @@davidbono9359 Likely adapted from shell programming syntax. A backtick is used to run a string of text as a command line, returning its value (Perl borrowed this as well).

  • @SwitchingPower
    @SwitchingPower Před 9 měsíci +6

    I'm from Europe and I hate the ISO keyboard layout so I import my keyboards from the US for the better ANSI layout

  • @PatrickCraig-lh5is
    @PatrickCraig-lh5is Před 9 měsíci +11

    Always a pleasure and a great learning experience when I watch your videos. Someone donate a Tandy 2000 to this man! :)

  • @kaitlyn__L
    @kaitlyn__L Před 9 měsíci +2

    I smiled at your explanation of Americans’ struggle with the original IBM PC keyboard, as it’s such a mirror to how I kept accidentally pressing \ when meaning to press enter when I was switching from ISO to ANSI.
    I always used to hit the bigger part of the enter key, a row above. And usually with my pinky, not my ring finger like I usually do with ANSI enter nowadays. Thankfully it’s less jarring to use ISO enter now I’m accustomed this way, since I can still hit the smaller part of it.

  • @KenanTurkiye
    @KenanTurkiye Před 9 měsíci +2

    When you said ''Tandy 2000'' I just time machined back to the store I first saw it.
    It was expensive (for me), I couldn't buy one and I look forward to a video about it.

  • @dintyshideaway9505
    @dintyshideaway9505 Před 9 měsíci +2

    I am fortunate enough to own both a Tandy 2000, and a DEC rainbow keyboard. When I interviewed the now departed Tandy CEO John Roach a couple years ago for my channel, he indicated that he thought Bill Gates actually tricked him into building the Tandy 2000, to showcase Windows 1.0. According to Roach, Gates required the larger capacity floppy drives in order to run Windows without a hard drive. Even on the Radio Shack back office systems (which is what happened to most of the 2000s) which have monochrome graphics and no mouse card, Windows still runs surprisingly well. The system was both faster and slower because the 80186 only allowed for 256k of conventional memory, half that of the 8088. There was only one other system that was tailor made for Windows 1.0 in this country, an HP featured once on Adrian's Digital Basement. It was my understanding that there was an NEC system that could also run Windows 1.0, and that this was the system that finally proved to Steve Jobs that Gates was stealing his stuff.

    • @vwestlife
      @vwestlife  Před 9 měsíci

      Actually the Tandy 2000 could have up to 768K of RAM, higher than the maximum 640K conventional RAM of ordinary PCs. Microsoft also used Wang's non-IBM-compatible PCs to demonstrate pre-release versions of Windows. There's a video of Windows showing the Wang logo on the screen at COMDEX in 1983.

    • @dintyshideaway9505
      @dintyshideaway9505 Před 8 měsíci

      I didn't know about the Wang pre-release. I had a conversation with the late John Roach once, CEO of Tandy at the time of the 2000. He indicated that the use of the 80186 was Bill Gates idea. He also said the development of TRS-DOS and use of the 256k kernel was necessary to have a usable DOS with the 80186.@@vwestlife

  • @fintux
    @fintux Před 8 měsíci +1

    The 90's was great time for touch typists in the sense that almost all keyboards had basically identical layout, and also the tactile feedback of even the most basic keyboards was good. And for gamers, at least in the early 90's, they often offered a full rollover. Now, every keyboard has some quirks on the layout (some that you can easily miss even when trying to look for a standard one), and the keyboards can get confused even from a few simultaneous keys being pressed.

  • @davidg4288
    @davidg4288 Před 9 měsíci +1

    That hold key rocked for games. Some games disabled it, that of course had to be hacked back in immediately.
    The thing is Tandy actually knew how to build a computer and had been doing just that well before the IBM-PC. Actually successfully marketing their products was hit or miss.

  • @jasonschubert6828
    @jasonschubert6828 Před 9 měsíci +3

    Ha ha, I knew I recognised that voice!
    WordPerfect for DOS was such a good program, I still don't like how Word hides formatting in the GUI with no way to know it is there!
    The Europe thing is interesting too, I can remember reading an article about some of the best key placement improvements in computer history, however when I worked in the UK they still used most of the dodgy previous versions!

  • @Damien_N
    @Damien_N Před 9 měsíci +4

    The AT Keyboard is so close to being good - always loved the HHKB layout

  • @silentjohn80
    @silentjohn80 Před 9 měsíci +5

    I'm a ISO (Norway) keyboard user, and I prefer the ISO layout. The left shift key has about the same distance from the F-key as the right shift key has from the J-key - that makes sense. The Enter-key is double the height as the US-layout which makes it easy to hit when typing fast.

    • @simontay4851
      @simontay4851 Před 9 měsíci

      And \ is in the correct place as well. On the left next to Z where it should be - it makes sense since / is on the opposite side. Its logical.

  • @danielton9577
    @danielton9577 Před 9 měsíci +1

    Good to see we've come full circle now that many laptops don't even have a Caps Lock light anymore!

    • @alexhajnal107
      @alexhajnal107 Před 7 měsíci

      Thankfully, my current keyboard's Caps Lock LED can be disabled via software since I've repurposed the key as Compose. :^)

  • @magoid
    @magoid Před 9 měsíci +1

    ... and thanks to its solid construction, IBM's Model F keyboard was also used to settle office conflicts in the 1980's.

    • @vwestlife
      @vwestlife  Před 9 měsíci +2

      They could also use a Western Electric 500 telephone for that.

  • @corrugateddesigner
    @corrugateddesigner Před 9 měsíci +1

    As a pretty long time kb user, it was interesting to see some of the causes of my suffering during the evolution.

  • @deeiks12
    @deeiks12 Před 9 měsíci +1

    Shout out to this does not compute!

  • @plushifoxed
    @plushifoxed Před 9 měsíci +1

    wasn't expecting to hear This Does Not Compute's voice in here, hah

  • @magoffin
    @magoffin Před 9 měsíci

    Japanese NEC PC-9801 computers used slots like that also. It was really convenient to be able to install and remove cards from the back.

  • @Markimark151
    @Markimark151 Před 9 měsíci +6

    It’s ironic that Tandy was the first to make that keyboard layout, and were innovators like IBM and Apple! But Tandy failed to adapt to their competitors because of their c suite management who don’t know to focus on improving their products, which is why Tandy Radio Shack went the way of the dodo! Also you should do more with Colin from TDNC!

  • @AMDRADEONRUBY
    @AMDRADEONRUBY Před 9 měsíci +1

    Nice a new PC video about old PC and keyboard I really like and waiting patiently about your new video

  • @justapeasant8949
    @justapeasant8949 Před 9 měsíci +6

    My mother is still coping with pre-WWII typewriters being retired and being replaced with keyboards. Both electric and computer.
    And, no... she's not octogenarian. Countries under Soviet control (Eastern Europe) used mechanical typewriters until '80s. She was a typist in her government run enterprise. Baby boomer. Still smacks every button, key, touch screen to this very day😑

    • @vwestlife
      @vwestlife  Před 9 měsíci +6

      Secretaries in the U.S. were still trained to type on a manual typewriter in the 1980s, too, just in case they had to use one.

    • @cdl0
      @cdl0 Před 7 měsíci +1

      My long-deceased was the same: her typing sounded like a Gatling gun. The need to make carbon copies meant robust typing was necessary. Those ladies were incredible. Another skill they all had was shorthand.

  • @kwas101
    @kwas101 Před 9 měsíci +1

    Thanks for this entertaining video (as usual). You can have my Model M keyboard when I'm dead - I'm using it to type this comment right now. It's dated 08 August 1989 and it is still as good as it was on that day. Good for another 34 years I would have thought!

  • @Philfluffer
    @Philfluffer Před 9 měsíci +1

    That was Colin from "this does not compute" reading that statements about windows being demoed on the Tandy.

    • @fabifri
      @fabifri Před 9 měsíci +1

      I cant state enough how i like those easter eggs in such videos. 🙂

  • @chrislj2890
    @chrislj2890 Před 9 měsíci +2

    Now I have to put on some "Swing Out Sister" music, lol.

  • @graealex
    @graealex Před 9 měsíci +2

    Nice Bill Gates impression, and always happy to see favorite CZcamsrs getting plugged....

  • @CadeEdwards2013
    @CadeEdwards2013 Před 8 měsíci +2

    Great video! I live in Canada and they do some really stupid things with the keyboards over here to make Quebec happy. I always look for US key layouts when shopping for laptops or keyboards.

    • @alexhajnal107
      @alexhajnal107 Před 7 měsíci +2

      Blimey, that Québécois keyboard's a mess. Doesn't the Canadian government know that deadkeys and compose keys are a thing?

    • @CadeEdwards2013
      @CadeEdwards2013 Před 7 měsíci +1

      @@alexhajnal107 Yeah, I know! I always remap the crap out of the keys if I get a French Canadian keyboard. It's all about proving that we are bilingual, but almost nobody speaks French in B.C., Alberta, and most other western and middle provinces. Out East, maybe there might be a case for it, but not in the west (in Vancouver). Anyways, I'm ranting LOL.

  • @miked4377
    @miked4377 Před 9 měsíci +1

    i would like to see you do a tandy 2000 video! that would be great kevin!

  • @trailg19c
    @trailg19c Před 9 měsíci +3

    My first home pc was a Tandy 1000. Not the first one I used (Those were Sinclair, BBC and SORD). Loved it, its keyboard. Transitioning to el chipo clones with all over hodge podge keyboards in the late 80's early 90's was a b!tch.

  • @dmcintosh1967
    @dmcintosh1967 Před 9 měsíci +1

    My grandpa had a Tandy 2000 but unfortunately it got burned up in shop fire a few years back.

  • @joshuaheretoplay
    @joshuaheretoplay Před 9 měsíci +1

    This was great 👍

  • @lennaertedens4624
    @lennaertedens4624 Před 8 měsíci

    1:03 quite a surprise hearing Colin!

  • @RetroTechChris
    @RetroTechChris Před 9 měsíci +2

    I love my Tandy 1000 HX and TX... and the keyboards are nice... but... I don't know... the placement of the "alt" key was always a deal breaker for me! But yes, the keyboard has a great tactile feel, no question about it, and was an improvement in placement over the Model F for the most part!!

  • @BollingHolt
    @BollingHolt Před 9 měsíci +2

    Dang! I'm using a Model M on my computer right now, and the Pause key doesn't pause this video! 😆

  • @TalesofWeirdStuff
    @TalesofWeirdStuff Před 9 měsíci +1

    There was a Tandy 2000 at Portland Retro Gaming Expo a couple years ago that I almost bought... I kick myself for letting that go by. :(

  • @SirKenchalot
    @SirKenchalot Před 9 měsíci +5

    Wouldn't it be better if the labels for the function keys were software controllable rather than paper you have to keep swapping in and out? Oh no! I just invented the Touch Bar! There's another flop though that one might not have a legacy worthy of a video from you in 30 years.

    • @eDoc2020
      @eDoc2020 Před 9 měsíci +1

      That's essentially what so much software did by putting a legend on the bottom row of the screen.

  • @twocvbloke
    @twocvbloke Před 9 měsíci +16

    As a UK-ISO layout user, I disagree, not that it matters really cos people generally don't get a choice as to what they are taught to type on these days, given what country you're in dictates what standard is hooked up to a computer, it just bugs the heck out of me when I have to use a random ANSI layout and I'm typing gibberish cos certain keys are in the wrong place for my muscle memory... :S

    • @simontay4851
      @simontay4851 Před 9 měsíci +3

      Exactly. The UK layout is the best layout. It has all the keys of the US keyboard plus £ and € above 3. \ is in a sensible logical place - on the left next to Z where it should be. If / is on the right, it makes sense that \ is on the left next to Z. \ should never be above or forward of /. Thats stupid. Its BACKslash. " and @ are also swapped on the US layout. Why.

    • @Eliotime3000
      @Eliotime3000 Před 9 měsíci +2

      Same here from a La-Latin1-ISO keyboard. ANSI keyboard layout is a mess to me.

  • @georgemaragos2378
    @georgemaragos2378 Před 9 měsíci +1

    Hi, for what seems like eternity - 1986 to 1997 at work we had terminal keyboards as the main computer system was mini based.
    We used 122 key - keyboards F1 to F24, then some extra keys for clear screen, erase to end of field, and erase to end of line - most of the early ones 286/386 were very heavy all metal honeywell keyboards as the Pc's were actually very base pc's with floppy or eprom boot to terminal emulator
    Later on in late 486 days, we had generic PC clones with all of the the pc's based on windows 95/98 - and yes still the 122 keyboard for operation to talk to the host mini's

  • @FaultyStreams
    @FaultyStreams Před 9 měsíci +3

    "It's Colin how's it going"?

  • @stereophonicstuff
    @stereophonicstuff Před 9 měsíci +1

    You must be the first person to point out where IBM got much of their inspiration for the Model M from; everyone else just echoes the same sentiment that IBM’s influential design was one entirely of their own creation. Interesting to learn that isn’t entirely true.

  • @und4287
    @und4287 Před 9 měsíci +3

    Wordpad in Windows 10 (and 11) still has the "CAP" indicator when Caps Lock is on, I guess because of legacy reasons

  • @sharktastica
    @sharktastica Před 9 měsíci +7

    I think the IBM PC Keyboard layout is largely a symptom of the keyboard assembly itself being shared with other non-PC systems. For example, the System/23 Datamaster that came slightly before PC and the 5250-compatible 5291/5292 Display Stations that came slightly after having the same physical layout. I feel like maybe economies of scale and 'overcorrecting' for reducing cost and variance compared to beamspring-based keyboards played a part? All 3 of the aforementioned systems adopted the IBM 5250 data typewriter layout. maybe just with different legends and only a few minor tweaks to minimise the need for large key stabilisers. As someone who grew up with ISO, it never bothers me though.
    I think it's fair to thank DEC and Tandy for moving things towards the eventual Enhanced layout, but going back to beamspring keyboards, it's interesting to note a lot of 'experimenting' by IBM on Model B keyboards in the '70s that eventually came full circle. For example, IBM 4978 keyboards from 1978 have what resemble ANSI left shift and Enter, IBM 3732 keyboards from 1978 (despite also nailing down the ISO layout) have a clearly separate arrow key cluster (though in a plus shape), and the 92-key versions of the IBM 5253/5254 Display Station and Displaywriter keyboards from 1978 and 1979 respectively had ANSI style left shift and an Enter key similar to this Tandy keyboard. Earlier in 1983, IBM introduced the 104-key Model F "unsaver" for IBM 3290 which had a lot more function keys (though not segregated) and a nav cluster very close to Enhanced.

  • @enricoself2256
    @enricoself2256 Před 9 měsíci +1

    Hei, today we have @ThisDoesNotCompute doing some guest voice over. Many guests in recent videos !

  • @JohnSmith-xq1pz
    @JohnSmith-xq1pz Před 9 měsíci +4

    Thou shall not speak ill of the Model F/M 😉

  • @defaultuserid1559
    @defaultuserid1559 Před 9 měsíci +3

    Keyboards sold today aren't built like tanks the way these were or they have other problems. I returned a Corsair gaming keyboard that was built rugged but the T key failed followed by the R key. Turned out to be a common problem. I'm currently on a cheap amazon backlit keyboard where the keys frequently pop off if you hit them off center too hard. Still looking for a good backlit keyboard (no RGB animation needed or wanted) with decent key mechanisms.

  • @greendblink182
    @greendblink182 Před 9 měsíci +12

    I love having Ctrl where Caps Lock traditionally is now. I use Ctrl so much more than Caps and having it right next to A is far superior IMO.

    • @AaronOfMpls
      @AaronOfMpls Před 9 měsíci +1

      I'm too used to having them where they are to change them, but I can very much see why people do this.
      As a side note, Unicomp sells swapped Ctrl and Caps Lock keycaps for Model M keyboards. 🙂

    • @alexhajnal107
      @alexhajnal107 Před 7 měsíci

      I've remapped my Caps Lock key to be Compose. (I'm fine with Control living down in the corner.)

  • @KE5ZZO
    @KE5ZZO Před 9 měsíci +2

    I think it was Tandy 1000 TL keyboard I liked. Arrow keys had home in middle. Arrow keys lay out was not upside down T it was a cross ✝️. So home was in middle of cross and up above down below home key

    • @vwestlife
      @vwestlife  Před 9 měsíci +2

      The 8-Bit Guy showed a keyboard with an arrangement like that, but it was not a Tandy keyboard.

  • @idahobob
    @idahobob Před 9 měsíci +1

    You'll have a hard time finding Tandy 2000's, as they didn't sell well and became store fixtures.
    IIRC, when the Tandy 1000 came out, the stores moved the Tandy 2000's to the back room, for internal use. They were used for Invetory, Payroll, etc. At the end of each day, it would modem in sales numbers and more.
    This kept Tandy on the leading edge, at least for management.
    But they were so obsolete and worn out when replaced, that they were just disposed.

  • @Frank_42
    @Frank_42 Před 9 měsíci +2

    The print screen button never did anything when I pressed it, just like I couldn't find the "any key", and pressing Tab didn't give me a drink.

    • @Bob-1802
      @Bob-1802 Před 9 měsíci +1

      I believe you could (still can) buy a "any key" cap to solve this specific problem 🤭

  • @anthonybrunotheodd
    @anthonybrunotheodd Před 9 měsíci +2

    11:26 I laughed when you said that! Of course we know how great the PCjr keyboard is!!!!

  • @Roxor128
    @Roxor128 Před 9 měsíci +1

    It's like a transitional fossil for computing!

  • @drivers99
    @drivers99 Před 9 měsíci +1

    Scroll lock was useful in Lotus 1-2-3 and it still works in Excel.

  • @kevingreer599
    @kevingreer599 Před 8 měsíci

    The TRS-80 Model 4P and later models of the standard Model 4 had inverted T arrow keys before Tandy's IBM clones.

  • @BokBarber
    @BokBarber Před 9 měsíci +1

    Are you aware of the IBM F104 "unsaver" and F122 "battleship?" These keyboards, mostly intended for IBM terminals, were the progenitor of the Model M's layout. If you look at them, they're allot closer to the M layout than the XT or AT. They were introduced in mid 1983 and early 1984 respectively.
    But notably, they still hadn't fixed allot of the things that you mention that the Tandy 1000/2000 did. They did put the function keys on top, but didn't group them (and there were 24 of them, not 12.) They isolated the navigation keys, but in a crosspad design, not an inverted T. The keyboard itself still had something closer to the ISO layout, they overcompensated with too many buttons on the numpad, they left a bank of extra keys to the left of the typing area, and there were still no lock lights (though the terminals these came with did have permanent indicators on the display.)
    It's almost like they took the things they got right with the F104/F122, and pasted the things that they liked about the Tandy keyboard on top.

  • @Damien_N
    @Damien_N Před 9 měsíci +4

    I’ve always wondered why they never added a key in the position of what would become the win key on the model M

    • @ninoporcino5790
      @ninoporcino5790 Před 9 měsíci +1

      most used keys need some space around so that the hand can seek keys "by touch". For example cursor keys are isolated. Imagine having 5 extra keys around the cursor keys... it would be a nightmare to type.

    • @nickwallette6201
      @nickwallette6201 Před 9 měsíci +1

      Just to clear the path for the eventual evolution of the keyboard to include a Pizza key, of course. Way too early back then, before the Internet was flourishing in every household.

  • @stevejohnson1321
    @stevejohnson1321 Před 8 měsíci

    Some modern compact keyboards move the right-shift key, like the K400r. It slowed me down enough, I moved to a Motospeed model instead.

  • @Mrtee-ml8zf
    @Mrtee-ml8zf Před 9 měsíci +1

    Wow. Throwback to the computer lab in elementry school before we got blessed with apple II

  • @ToTheGAMES
    @ToTheGAMES Před 9 měsíci +1

    Ha, Colin as Bill!

  • @michaelcoffey7362
    @michaelcoffey7362 Před 9 měsíci +1

    Cool 😀

  • @PashPaw
    @PashPaw Před 9 měsíci +1

    The Rainbow was also intended as a VT, CP/M, and MS-DOS machine. At least in VT mode, the F11 key on the LK201 serves as an Escape key (when talking to a Linux box, anyway) and all of those keys do something in a full-screen forms app written for an OS like VMS.
    Not so sure about MS-DOS though. I haven’t been blessed with any OS disks for mine.

  • @mdesm2005
    @mdesm2005 Před 9 měsíci +1

    when I first saw the PCjr keyboard in my early 20s, it was the first time that I start to doubt the infallibility of large corporations. Even to me it seems dumb.

  • @Rainer67059
    @Rainer67059 Před 9 měsíci

    IBM was a big typewriter manufacturer, and the driving force to reject the Dvorak layout. They ensured the continued use of the bad Sholes layout. When electric typewriters appeared, they could've introduced models with alphabetic layout to make iit easier to learn for beginners. They didn't do that either. It doesn't come as a surprise to me that they were worse than their competition once.

  • @give_me_my_nick_back
    @give_me_my_nick_back Před 8 měsíci

    Being from Europe I assure you the difference between ISO and the US shift and enter is so small you will get used to in like 5 minutes, in fact i see no problem having iso on pc and us on a laptop etc as long as its still america english layout though i never gave the british layout a try to be fair. In here they sell both US and ISO style keyboards with the american/international layout

  • @philtkaswahl2124
    @philtkaswahl2124 Před 8 měsíci

    4:50 There are times where I kind of mourn how modern keyboards have mostly done away with the pen/pencil trays.

  • @the_kombinator
    @the_kombinator Před 9 měsíci +1

    A LOT of computer OEMs are forgotten these days that were IBM compatible that were better than IBM: Compaq, ALR, Gateway 2000, Hewitt Rand (granted those were just clones), AST, Hyundai, Daewoo, Mitsubishi, Leading Edge, Micron, Commodore, etc. All of these were cheaper, way more upgradable (very arguably Compaq was not), and had their own contributions to the then growing PC market.
    Just because something is still around doesn't mean it's better, it just had better market penetration (education/government helps a lot here), adoption, and very likely boils down to better marketing.

  • @khagerty46
    @khagerty46 Před 9 měsíci

    "The keyboard. How quaint."

  • @R-R-R
    @R-R-R Před 9 měsíci +1

    Useless fun fact: if you have a keyboard that's programmable according to the QMK standard, you can still have 24 function keys today!

  • @jwoody8815
    @jwoody8815 Před 9 měsíci

    My personal favorite PC key combination of all time is Alt+F4. :D
    Oddly many modern keyboard still have a "sys req" key.

    • @alexhajnal107
      @alexhajnal107 Před 7 měsíci

      Linux (optionally) features the Magic SysRq key. Pressing Alt+SysRq+KEY lets you send commands directly to the kernel. For example, pressing Alt+SysRq+U remounts all disks read-only, pressing Alt+SysRq+S syncs the disks, and Alt+SysRq+B forces a reboot. Came in quite handy back in the day. Wikipedia has a full list.

  • @johnathanstevens8436
    @johnathanstevens8436 Před 9 měsíci +1

    The keyboard layout was good. The 1000 was what the PC Jr -should- have been.
    Using cursor keys on earlier 80s micros sort of sucked.

  • @timothyverbist5795
    @timothyverbist5795 Před 9 měsíci +1

    I hope Radioshack relaunches Tandy

  • @iscander_s
    @iscander_s Před 9 měsíci +2

    I still think that it's the DEC keyboard that was copied, not Tandy one. It's a lot closer to the Model M, than Tandy

    • @vwestlife
      @vwestlife  Před 9 měsíci +1

      But IBM didn't seem to care about that until the Tandy 1000 was introduced in 1984, and then IBM hastily introduced the Model M in mid-1985. So yes, DEC did have the right idea, but it took competition from Tandy to get IBM to change their keyboard layout.

    • @iscander_s
      @iscander_s Před 9 měsíci +2

      @@vwestlife Yeah, they definitely took a notice at Tandy, Model F layout was a mess

  • @edfromnc7660
    @edfromnc7660 Před 9 měsíci +2

    You didn't mention the Keytronics KB5151 which by 1985 had all the features you mentioned.

    • @vwestlife
      @vwestlife  Před 9 měsíci +3

      Almost... it only has 10 F-keys, and the cursor keys are an inconvenient diamond layout with a dummy key in the middle. It also still requires you to press Shift to get a Print Screen.

    • @edfromnc7660
      @edfromnc7660 Před 9 měsíci

      @@vwestlife True enough, but it was a viable alternative for the IBM PC. Mine was the first keyboard I owned for my Columbia MPC 1600 and I still have both!
      They did make several keyboard template for popular software for it (I remember Word Perfect) I had one or two somewhere... Looking at it, it does have indicator lights for the Num Lock, Cursr Pad and Caps Lock. It also has 2 unmarked mystry keys, maybe I can configure them for a Windows Key? 🙂
      I do remember how nice it was to have a separate numeric keypad and cursor keys. Unlike the RGB whiz-bang keyboards of today, it is built like a tank!

  • @JamesPotts
    @JamesPotts Před 9 měsíci

    Some of IBM's terminals preceeded the 2000 with those layout changes (except for a diamond arrow key arrangement instead of inverted T).

  • @idahofur
    @idahofur Před 9 měsíci

    Yea septandy. You didn't show the f13-24 key keyboard. I'm not talking holding down the shift key either. :) I could be wrong and to lazy to look it up. But I think the SysRq was for IBM mainframes. I remember reading IBM was excited to come out with a card to connect the mainframe. TN3270 card I think.

  • @user-tb9mg4md7d
    @user-tb9mg4md7d Před 9 měsíci

    Did you equalize your voice somehow? Sounds so relaxing (no homo :D)

  • @emchodevetkov9438
    @emchodevetkov9438 Před 9 měsíci

    i am pleased with my Compaq KB-9963 PS/2 white

  • @slightlyevolved
    @slightlyevolved Před 9 měsíci +1

    I haven't watched the whole video yet, but let's face it, about the only thing wrong with the Tandy keyboard is the stupid HOLD key....

  • @richardbrobeck2384
    @richardbrobeck2384 Před 9 měsíci

    I remember using a tandy 2000 !

  • @evileyeball
    @evileyeball Před 9 měsíci

    And here I am sitting now on a Mechanical Keyboard with RGB LED's Built into every single key and using a piece of software to change the colour of those LED's when the LOCK keys Enable / Disable but not just for the lock in question but also for all the keys affected by said lock. Those keys will turm from my usual colourshift blue/purple scheme to Orange when the lock is on also the same is true for the shift key. and its affected keys.
    I also used the same software to turn the ESC, F1-12, and G6-G9 (Logitech Macro Keys) of my G910 into an Analog Clock. Where One function key lights up red to denote the hour hand, ESC is an AM/PM Indicator with RED for PM, and The F1-12 keys Light Orange for each 5 minute interval with the G6-G9 Keys showing orange for Minute 1 to Minute 4 of the next 5 minute interval. The hour display will also flash when the highest miniute indicator overlaps the hour indicator for example 1:05-1:09 2:10-214 3:15-319 Etc etc so one can see the minute indicatror below it.
    Minutes Indicator also changes from Orange to Magenta on the quarter and half hours (15, 30, and 45 mins)
    I Hid a Flashing Green "Second Hand" that displays Seconds in the same manner as Minutes display but flashing so as to avoid the overlay but this only shows when you enable the scroll lock because it was annoying when always on and it gave me a use for the scroll lock key..
    I also added a "Word Clock" Function where for 5 Seconds on the hour the words "ONE" "TWO" "THRE" "FOUR" "FIVE" "SIX" "SEVN" "EIGHT" "NIE" "TEN" "ELVN" or "TWELV" will blink red in the keyboard.
    Really How usefull is all of this? Not so much haha but it was a fun thing to try to make the keyboard do.

  • @der.Schtefan
    @der.Schtefan Před 8 měsíci +1

    As an European, I vigorously hate "US American" Enter and Backspace keys. Only keyboard layout to rule is "English International with EUR key on 5"

    • @alexhajnal107
      @alexhajnal107 Před 7 měsíci

      I'm partial to a US layout with Compose in place of Caps Lock.

  • @scotshabalam2432
    @scotshabalam2432 Před 9 měsíci +1

    Modern desk layout should have the Number Pad on the other side to work with the mouse. (Yes, I'm a heretic.)

    • @vwestlife
      @vwestlife  Před 9 měsíci +1

      See my video about the "mouse-friendly" keyboard.

  • @__hjg__2123
    @__hjg__2123 Před 9 měsíci

    buckling spring!!!!! King!

  • @nullvalu
    @nullvalu Před 9 měsíci +1

    @vwestlife I have a Tandy 2000 (dual floppy model) in great condition I could extend-loan to the channel for a video. Get in touch. Even have the "digi- mouse"! :)

  • @dollarama8652
    @dollarama8652 Před 9 měsíci

    wow! 😮
    a thing!

  • @evileyeball
    @evileyeball Před 9 měsíci

    Om my word that Tandy 1000 Keyboard sound is my childhood in a nutshell....
    But Ours unlike yours had the Left shift key properly positioned next to ZED rather than ZEE because it was purchased and used in Canada.

    • @vwestlife
      @vwestlife  Před 9 měsíci

      I've heard Canadians pronounce it both ways.