The Leverless Experience So Far | Guilty Gear Strive
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
- streamed Dec. 13, 2023
0:00 The leverless learning experience
3:38 Sin vs. BadGambles (Johnny)
19:20 Please do not draw conclusions about match-ups from my rusty/learning play
21:11 Strive lobbies/server moment
21:36 Sin vs. Inochi (Elphelt)
31:55 Sin vs. Kazam (Elphelt)
37:19 Sin vs. Puppet (Testament)
50:03 Talking about the different leverless options
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#FGC #Sajam #GGST #GuiltyGear - Hry
"You'll never guess what game's online function is struggling" those words cut deep
Certainly ArcSys would never have issues with multiplayer connectivity
guilty gear thrive therverth are thuffering
My thoughts whenever I go to play GGST. "Oh yeah, the lobby system and connectivity is awful, guess I'll play something else and wait for Tekken"
@@Inojin67 i thlammed the therverth in the car door
"Hey woolie what do you think fighting games could do to reach the same popularity as other genres?" "Work."
you are the first person with handcam on strive I've seen WITHOUT nail polish
Ahahahahaha thats so fuckin true
Seeing the hand movements is so interesting to me because I don't move my hands NEARLY that much
to me, leverless is like playing on keyboard, i literally use 0 move/hoovering on the controller, my hands just rest over it and press the buttons unlike arcade stick
Always interesting to see other people's experiences especially the instinct to jump with right thumb vs left thumb. To me, all movement occurs with left hand similar to FPS games Keyboard and Mouse. Space bar is jump so I jump with left thumb.
That's how I picture it. My dad uses right thumb and always wonders why I use my left thumb for up and this is how I explain it to him!
This made me wonder for the first time how the experience of playing fighting games differs for left & right-handed people.
Most of us have been programmed from a young age to control the bulk of our movement/DIs in games with our left hands, simply due to the default layout for most controllers, and some part of me likes to think that this could somehow override the dominant hand/off-hand paradigm, artificially imposing a sort of parity.
At least w/ FPSes (on-console), it's kind of a wash - Movement & camera control must each be designated to a hand.
But, for FGs, now, I can't help but kinda resent my powerful hand for just kicking back with face buttons while my poor smooth-brained hand is playing out of its mind.
I thought this too, but then tried right hand jump on my keyboard and like immediately had an easier time with 360 motions, so ymmv
@@benjaminfenn3700 That's why I actually play with a left-handed control scheme (buttons on left, movement on right)
i've been playing on keyboard for years and people tried gaslighting me that motion inputs are impossible now i see hitboxes with the same layout as my kb binds and people talk about how good it is
they mad tripping. Motion inputs are so free with it.
Pros: I like mashing buttons and there are so many buttons
Cons: motion inputs are kinda awkward
In games where you've got shortcuts or less strict direction interpretation (Like Strive requires cardinals and diagonals don't count) you can do a learn a lot of weird inputs to make shit easier. Sometimes even easier than other controllers. Like for example Tekken 7 Korean backdash almost feels like cheating.
The only aqward motion input is half circle.
they actually aren't. the most awkward would be half circle, but if you're okay with lifting your fingers literally just slide a finger across the buttons. literally just schmoove that index finger for the most consistent half circle in the universe. otherwise, just do a qcf motion in reverse followed immediately by a qcb motion, or vice versa for a forward half circle. quarter circles are even more easy. just take two fingers and smash the down and one other directional key and tilt your hand so the directional key gets pressed a frame after the down key. then tilt your hand in the other direction far enough that the down key gets lifted and immediately press a button. boom you have a consistent qcb! dp motions are also easier than on pad/stick. reverse the qcf motion I just described and follow it up by smashing both fingers down so you end with a down forward input. for games/hitboxes that have SOCD its even easier, smash all 3 fingers down and make sure the finger that is on the forward key is leading slightly then just lift the finger on the back key and press a button.
There are not enough videos about properly using a fightstick/hitbox beyond hitbox quick inputs. When I'm watching someone good play its like they are playing the piano sometimes. It'd be awesome to see a video talking about proper technique, like when to double tap buttons and how your hands should be moving during combo sequences. Theres probably a best way to do things and combo guides don't show any of the physicality required to pull off high level execution.
loving the sin gameplay sajam I get alot of insight from it
I had a similar problem with Roman Cancels, so I ended up putting the dash macro on the rightmost (right pinky) top row button. This makes drifting roman cancels a pleasure to do as you basically just need to slap the four fingers of your right hand on the top row, and the thumb remains free for jumping if necessary.
As former keyboard player i can say that the skill of jumping with Space button pressed by left thumb transitioned on hitbox just naturally. So left hand do all the movement, while right hitting strikes, dashes and RCs
I play leverless but I still prefer a full sized arcade controller enclosure instead of the slim stuff (it was a life saver being able to drill a hole and add an extra macro for block button/faultless defense)
Leverless is so interesting because it allows you the flexibility of treating jump as either movement or attack depending on which thumb you use
Just received my Kitsune too, struggle a bit on the 632146 on P1. Oh and Goldlewis is now so different to play it hurts …
I just got a stick about a year ago and am really enjoying it. Might try leverless in a few years.
I bought a custom made stick and one month later I made my own leverless controller.
Both are awesome. I love playing Guile on leverless and Ken on Stick. Feels so natural.
I’ve been playing on the mpress nano for a few weeks now. I’ve finally gotten use to lever less. To the point where I’m no longer just playing Leo on it and don’t feel like I’m being held back. I’m gonna try Ken on it to see how it handles shotos tomorrow.
That pinky grip is wild dude. Lol. Never even considered that.
Hey it's a Razer Kitsune. Very slick looking leverless.
It's pretty expensive though, but I saw a comment thread on your other video about that very topic and it turns out there are some much more affordable options as well. I ordered one, and I think it's going to get here after new years. It's been a very very long time since I've gotten a dedicated controller for fighting games so I'm looking forward to trying it~
If your main platform is PC there are a lot of options for leverless, I personally have bought a mini one(very slim, fits in a laptop bag comfortably) for less than 150. And it's multi-layered and RGB too, which makes me think there are probably cheaper options without these extras
@@Bonemannes Which one did you buy? Last I went looking all Snackboxes were sold out.
@@SirKrisXI did buy an Atachon Turbo but it's currently sold out, I'd suggest you look out for a controller with GP-2040 firmware. I've seen online that some people recommend a SKY-2040 to try out, as the switches are also swappable in case you wanna use different ones
@@Bonemannes This is the one I got! I like the clear acrylic look. It was between that and a Flatbox, which I'm told is a 3d printed box.
@@magicalgirl1296 yes the acrylic is really good for some artwork and even multi-layered ones if you wanna be crafty.
For the flatbox I think it started with an Arduino but now they also use an RP-2040 since it's very small and has very good firmware support.
The good thing about the flatbox is that if you wanna make one of those all you need is someone printing the models, getting some switches and the board and you're all done, if you got the tools tho
I’m currently playing on a Kitsune too, and I’ve considered using my pinky to hit R2 and L1 but that seems so uncomfortable 😭. I’m shocked you’re able to do it.
My hands have a pretty wide stretch so I don’t mind it. I used to play piano so it’s a natural movement, but I would figure out whatever works best for your hands
The character thing is so true like prolly a third of the people I've played in Granblue play me a few games and we go pretty even and then they switch to like Anre or Seox or something and I get blown up by knowledge checks. Still really fun though, had a long set against a Vaseraga at one point and they were figuring some stuff out which is always fun to see people trying things in real time
When I went from pad to leverless and I tried to set up my button layout to be as efficient as possible:
P - S - H - D
K - rc - dm - fd
that way rc drifting is a simple direction > ring finger > middle finger plink. I don't know how some players can do rc inputs so consistently without using the rc macro, it still feels awkward to just shift my hand slightly for the fd input.
Seeing someone right hand jump on leverless scares me.. its like pouring the milk first
I use a keyboard, so essentially leverless.
WASD for movement, so index on forward, middle is up/down, ring for back. And I don't use my right thumb for anything.
I also use macros on spacebar and shift, bound to dash and RC in strive, and DI and Parry in SF6
The only thing I would want to replace is swap the jump button with the crouch button. I don't think I could ever get used to pressing down to jump. Can you just open it up and switch the wires around?
As a pianist who decompresses from practice by playing different kinds of fighting games, playing on keyboard(pc) gives me just about as much benefits as practicing my Hanons on the keyboard(piano) for finger strength
I’ve been playing on the Kitsune also. Using Johnny. I forgot Sin is in this game. I’m going to check him out
absolutely insane that you're using your pinky.
And splitting Left, Right, Down, and Jump between two hands.
Brother, I gasped when I saw that. Lol.
To WASD enjoyers in comments, you really should also try arrows, especially if you're right handed. Makes movement and motion inputs even more precise. I couldn't go back to left handed movement after that.
That's what I use.
ASDF for pksh, C for dust, E for dash, R for RC, W for Burst.
My only problem with that - my left hand is not used to do anything but movement.
2:47 its so interesting, kinda gives perspective of person that didn't play with keyboard on pc as well. In other games pinky is used to press shift button, 3 next fingers press awsd and big finger of left hand presses spacebar for jumps. So if person played using keyboard and mouse in pc games leverless controller is really natural.
my dash macro is actually on my left side pinky right next to the left directional button and I press up with my left hand thumb so my right hand is just buttons. if I had a proper leverless or had the time to build one at home I could just never lift my hand off the controller by properly positiong the buttons so my right hand can reach and press all of them while in a resting position, but the keyboard simply does not have a key all the way down where my right hand thumb is. I would have to find some way to make my touchpad act as a button to be able to do that. which might actually be possible if I think about it.
anyways, this layout makes my inputs SUPER consistent because none of my fingers are doing multiple jobs so i can just kind of forget I'm even using an input method: I think "sweep" and my hands do 2D on their own because each of my fingers is assigned it own button in my head.
Do you tend to rest your wrist on the pad? Switching from keyboard to leverless my hand definitely gets tired easier.
I have my snack box micro hitbox right now but I think I might try out a mixbox for Tekken 8 and see if my KB movement from playing shooters translates to fighting game movement seamlessly.
I've got pretty small hands and I still use my ring finger on the left hand to move. That controller does seem extra large compared to my Hitbox. Maybe a smaller leverless would be better for comfort in the long term, because idk I can't imagine that stress on the pinky would be good.
If a button combination seems hard to press or awkward just watch someone play a piano. Your hands can get used to and master all kinds of crazy shit if you just practice it a bunch.
Weird to me, how every other comment is about how easy and instinctive it is to use your left thumb to jump.
I use my right, because the first fighting game I seriously practiced was +R. It has a fairly strict input parser, so your motion inputs have to be complete (mostly, one exception)
Using my right thumb turns the last part of tiger knee motions into plinks, letting me hit stuff i otherwise would really struggle with timing.
Funny how it all works out
That moment when you get back into Fighting Games but your Hitbox Detachable Cable breaks but replacing it costs 19 dollars plus £60 to ship it to UK.
And it won't supported on PS5 games. Fuck my life.
do you just dp every time she has to go for a special cancel or are you doing it on reaction to the rekka starter?
the first match being FREEEEEEEEEEEESIAAAAAAAAAAAA is very fitting
Somehow my brain interpreted the title as the genderless experience so far as if Sajam has suddenly transcended gender and decided to share what that’s like
aight
Sacrificed his gender for better neutral 😊
@@aeseorlwho wouldn't?
true definition of stickless
Anything in service of better commentary powers
Why don't you juse the RC macro button? Wouldn't that make drifting even easier for you?
I'm playing on a keyboard so I'm using my left hand for movement like usual AND the pinky exclusively for dash and RC macros. Extra finger utilized and I get drift RC by slamming the side of my hand down.
Playing with an lbx smash controller has lead me to playing with such a different style of hand movements its crazy. You not using your left thumb was a huge shocker for me.
Edit: You are a psychopath for using your pinky like that
Yeah normally people use their left thumb for jump and then index for forward, middle for down, and ring for back. Your method seems good too, just depends on how big your rig is.
it's what I use too, but ngl would like an jump button above my left middle finger because I've gotten used to doing circles with WASD, would help with some inputs like behemoth typhoon and tigerknee
i use a snackbox and i basically never use my left thumb to jump it just feels odd to me
@@sijiehe1826 mixbox exists but it's just normal mechnical keycaps in those positions instead of arcade buttons.
That's really surprising to me that you use your pinky to press left. I might have to give that a go sometime but I'm already so used to using my ring finger
this really just makes me wanna try a cross up.
I really think that these controllers should have a button for your left pinky. To me this is still just a worse keyboard because of it. pressing shift with my pinky is fully ingrained into my muscle memory and its great for something like the dash macro
My smol hands and fingers cause a tendency to smack right between the buttons if I don't rest my fingers already on them, so I usually use all top row buttons and switch between the two left bottom buttons with my right thumb (bigger finger, better accuracy) and jump with left thumb. I'm really bad at pianoing for this reason, and I hate kara-cancel.
It's interesting to see hands this animated. I tried to imitate but it felt so unnatural. Although I think it'd be best for me to unlearn old habits (like still reflexively 66 to dash half the time) and use more buttons to depend on my pinky less.
I use a lever less wasd drop in instead of the normal hitbox layout and I'm not sure if I should switch.
Unless you need to for hand pain there's generally not an inherent difference between most layouts outside of comfort, for me personally I prefer the button layout on my left hand but the wasd layout on my right for example. Though I usually just use stick since that's what I have
Oh hey, another ODINv2 user?
I use one too. I tried the normal hitbox layout but it felt super uncomfortable for me so I switched to the ODINv2. I've played a lot of FPSes since the 90s so for me the WASD layout is more comfortable.
Now, I know a lot of people say stuff like "Oh, but you jump with space bar in shooters, so what's the difference between that and a hitbox layout really?" and all I can say is that I think it's one of those YMMV things so for me at least WASD is just more pleasant even if it does make up/down switching a bit harder.
Why not just use your left hand for movement entirely? other controllers all use left hand only for movement, why do so many people suddenly start using their right thumb for jumping?
Why are you tapping the button using your index and middle finger in quick succession? that looks really cool ngl
"Double-tapping". Gives you two chances to make sure the button you want pressed gets recognized by the game. Used to be really important tech for fighters that needed strict links like Street Fighter 4 (or even 2) - nowadays it's mostly leftover muscle memory for old school players.
Though of course, that's just the way I know it. If I'm wrong or missing something then I'd also be happy if someone else chimed in.
Werent you saying leverless hurt your hand a few years back?
how does this guy do a p2 side DP input with his pinky...
Got a 3d printed one of these controllers from my friends, was very hard to adjust, especially after taking a break from fighting games. Easily my favourite style of controller now though
Strive has also been so much fun to relearn, probably my favourite fighting game rn
what’s ur button layout for strive
You might want to bind your Rc to your L2 for hitbox. Then you could just roll your fingers and it wouldn't interfere with your thumb for jump. Just a suggestion for hitbox. Hitbox has both pros and cons, and for me it depends on the game and character I'm playing.
yeah I found that as well. shotos, most rushdown characters and charge characters are fine. grapplers like sajam said take more work.
It's unfortunate that you had to do the switch because of technical issues, but I'm glad you're not feeling any pain so far. Any controller feels nice when you're used to it, obviously, but the lack of travel time did something to my brain, and nothing else feels quite as responsive since I made the switch.
Oh, what's the technical issue that made Sajam switch?
@@sirjeanpepper2492 Iirc he was getting blue screened whenever he tried using his stick.
Using the pinky for movement is so odd to think about as someone who's been playing hitbox for like 5 years.
Leverless behaviour
I didn't like how the leverless standard layout was for all these companies designs, they all felt wrong to me. I built mine so that the hands are separated, felt wayyyyyy better. I also use all small 23mm buttons so they can be as close together as possible. And then I rotated the two button sets inward so when it sits on my lap it is much more ergonomic. If my playstyle was to put it on the desk in front of me, I wouldn't have done that, as my hands would be forward in front of me, instead of resting on my lap. Making your own controller is pretty easy though (even if I made mine a bit ridiculous)
Your pinky must be damn muscular XD
I do think it would've been a little bit funny if you went with "Stickless Stephen" for the name, but Leverless Larry is a bit less suggestive
Hey Sajam, i saw your Lever-less controller and was just wondering which one it was or where you got it from. I don't know if anyone has asked you before about it, but I'm always curious to see what other people are using for their lever-less controllers.
i hate how almost every hitbox has only one thumb button instead of two, i don't think being able to press jump with both hands justifies giving one up. The thumb is the most dexterous finger and instead they have two pinkie buttons, figures...
Because buttons that are pressed by pinky fingers make the most sense where they are.
23:06 boing
Oh how I've missed C O U N T E R
I started learning keyboard and it is hard to transition from pad but I'm already noticing I'm able to do some stuff much easier like air throws and such. I use ASD-Space layout with W as dash. I have seen some leverless that have button above that replicates W on keyboard. On pad I always struggled with instant air dashes or jin from bb 22 and stuff like that which requires fast and accurate inputs.
Using pinky for left is absolutely grotesque.
yall are just years behind keyboard players
i love guilty gear 👍
You know, being a poor ass kid playing fgs is.... to me, weird. Cuz i have no controllers, i play with KEYBOARD, ever since the release of strive (i hope i can reach 1000 hours next year, currently some 600+), i use:
WASD for movement, Q for dash macro
UJIKO for P, K, S, HS and D (in that order)
L for Roman cancels.... but seeing the leverless vids of Sajam i need this question answered
Is keyboard = snackbox/leverless controller? or is one better than the other? i might start changing my controls around to replicate a snackbox on my keyboard, to expermient a little and someday buy one (if i ever have the money). Hopefully someone with experience can answer this riddle for me, just to clear my head
a snackbox/leverless is pretty much the same it just works for ps4/5 which is what evo runs on( some don't tho like the flatbox cause its opensource and sony is mean). there will be some difference due to things like switch types and actuation pressure but that isn't as big of a jump as jumping from keyboard to stick. considering your layout its pretty similar to mine on a stick with a leverless drop in I bought off etsy. its called t-spin but if you want to spend more money the odin works as well.
WASD for movement is fine. There are some niche things where being able to hit up and down at the same time is technically better but it isn't required.
I think it comes down mostly to button spacing and ergonomics, personally if I'd play with Kayboard I'd probably keep the WASD but give a 1-button spacing from each button as not to have any misinput accidents
I play keyboard but use asd and numberpad for P,K,S,HS and jump with 0 on numpad
@@tired8292 The numpad is great
Yo is Sajam shirtless while playing leverless 😂? No shame, I do the same while playing Apex Legends sometimes
You use your pinky for movement.....bro is a lizard for sure.
Hands for free? In this economy?
Keyboard.
I play on an xbox 360 controller. What the fuck
I miss Rumbleverse 😢