You Can’t Negotiate with YouTube
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- čas přidán 26. 04. 2024
- CZcams releases a memo warning of a crackdown on third party viewing clients that block CZcams’s ads.
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You don't need to have an adblocker installed to experience buffering, error messages, and videos failing to load on CZcams.
You are not wrong. 1gig connection here with premium sub and sometime the buffering is painful. Only started recently.
For me the app stops after 20-30 seconds of playing. Even if I switch to a new video it doesn't start on the official app.
@@PXAbstraction That's what makes it frustrating; it's not a client-side connection issue. Steam has no problems downloading at insane speeds for example. But CZcams has recently become quite painful to use at high resolutions, often getting stuck, and skipping bits.
@@PXAbstractionHaven't the actions they have been taking against adblock services actually harmed users not using adblock in the past?
Maybe this is a Mandela effect moment for me, I think I do remember YT getting blamed for one of these occasions and then it ending up being like, Furefox's issue or something, but I swear I have seen news about this and then experiencing insane buffering on browsers I don't have adblock on. (I have it on one browser, but I use like 5 and these services have function beyond YT ads.)
Same for me, I have really good internet speed. Every other site is flawless. But youtube is buffering all the time for me now. I feel like they are analyzing the speed you watch at and the amount of data per day and slowing people who use it a lot.
If I'm going to pay CZcams/google my money, then I want them to stop mining my data and invading my privacy. If I'm paying, and they're still mining me, then they're making money off of me on both ends, and that's crap.
What you need to do is pay google and then willingly offer your data to them as well. That way they make money off of you once. Win/win, right?
Exactly, like they say, if it's free, you're the product.
@@RAM_845 except here we're talking about the paid product (YT "Premium") still tracking you (all Alphabet products)
Paying for a product should mean no further exploitation
@@RAM_845 Except they're treating us like a product and want to force feed us ads or take our money.
We're still the product even if we buy Premium@@RAM_845
The other day, I watched 1 minute of unskippable adverts, followed by 2 minutes of video, followed again by 30 seconds of unskippable adverts...
That, for me, was too much.
I use brave but still started paying for premium, for now
Yeah CZcams is getting crazy with ads
@@mightymushroom4980 Which just pushes even more people to use ad blockers
I have no issue with stuff like what youtube did in the old days, with the whole banner thing popping up, that you could close.
Keyword CLOSE. unskippable video adds is what breaks me, and theyre only getting worse, i know that much...
Same not to mention we all get spammed with ads all day in other apps, email, tv, and streaming now.
I have premium. When I’m on a device that I’m not signed into, it’s horrible how many ads there are. It makes it unwatchable. There are way too many and they need to cut back. That’s why ad blockers exist in the first place, because there are too many ads
They need all those ads because their business model isn't sustainable otherwise. If paying for premium, you're paying to not see ads, which needs to include baked in sponsor ads, they are still ads and need to be removed or CZcams isn't providing you with the service they promised with premium.
@@ejtaylor73 I don’t see how they can remove baked in sponsor ads. Plus the advertiser has an agreement with the CZcamsr, not CZcams itself
@@ejtaylor73 They not losing money overall, it's ad revenue that's been dropping due to economic uncertainty.
Spoken like someone who doesn't understand how massive the operating costs for hosting and transcoding billions of hours of content are.
@@joeandmax1 I am well aware, but they are also reducing the value of their ads because there are so many. So less ads could be charged more money
Companies have learned nothing. It's the same reason piracy is making a resurgence, if you make the experience too expensive or too crap people will find another way. Ads on CZcams are aggressively long, repetitive and obnoxious. CZcams premium is far too expensive for what it offers (in my opinion).
If CZcams worked on making premium more affordable or making the ad viewing experience less cancerous, people would be far less likely to find less savory ways to view the content they want to watch.
They would make so much money if premium was like $5-7 a month
@@gothfalconyep I was paying for premium until they jacked up the price
@@gothfalconThere is youtube premium lite which is basically that. Mabye that's only available in selected countries though (I am from Germany)
@@maxus1234566789 The closest I see in US is if you can prove you are a student, and it's still about $8 a month
I do think on the flipside consumers have a really skewed baseline on what things should cost after years of getting things for free with little inconvenience. CZcams Premium and most subscription platforms for an entire month is like what a single new DVD used to cost. All while the value of a single ad view is going down and down because people are to used to just ignoring them and brands don't want to pay as much if less people are engaging with them.
You can want something to be cheaper, but I when Premium has to both pay for the costs of hosting and serving you videos, and for the creator to get a cut, how cheap can it be?
What pushed me over the edge to use an adblocker is the CZcams mobile app being so bad. You watch an ad, watch some of the video, pause it, back out the app, go back into the app few minutes later, and the app closed in the background and I have to watch an ad all over again.
yeah I'm not even using the apps anymore. Also the smart tv apps work the exact same way which is why I'm only watching YT through an adblocked laptop hooked up to the TV now.
The ad situation was fine many years ago, they kept pushing and messed it up.
@@frankhuurman3955 Indeed. The official app and website are UI/UX nightmares. The only way they're usable is to use a pile of patches to fix the MANY problems in the app and extensions/userscripts to fix the many problems in the website (and STILL have to suffer).
I finally used CZcams without premium for the first time in like 8 years the other day.
I didn’t realize they had put ads on the web page amongst the recommended videos now too. It’s horrendous how scammy and spammy YT has become. It’s a horrible experience
It's a horrible UX even without ads. 😒
If the ads were bearable nobody would need ad blockers. But sometimes there's ads in the middle of songs.
And I feel that sometimes they're placed right before the best part of the song which ruins the experience. I wouldn't put it past youtube using some sort of AI to find the parts most people like of the songs and "coincidentally" put an ad right before it.
Can you give a single example
The ad experience on YT (and the Internet in general) is NOTHING like the ad experience on radio and TV in the pre-Internet days, it's an abomination.
I mean... maybe some of the ads are worse? I honestly can't tell where you're coming from though, TV ad breaks are just factually longer than CZcams ones
@@hahasamian8010 The difference between YT ad placements and TV ad placements is that TV content is designed to be interrupted, whilst YT content (usually) isn't.
It's like dividing cake vs dividing cupcakes.
Only pet-peeve of mine is when YT has a short skippable ad followed by a non-skippable ad. It punishes users for not skipping the first in time.
6 second skippable add, ohh you missed the skip so here's a 30 second non-skippable add
The people who did that must have previously worked on traffic-management in North America. Oh, you got to the intersection and pressed the crosswalk beg-button a second after the light turned green? Well too tf bad, now the crosswalk light won't change and you have to wait for the next traffic-cycle or else if the cops will blame you if a drunk-driver runs you over since the light says "don't cross". Don't forget to push the beg-button in time next time.
I was stubborn for a long time about the moral implications of adblocking, but after ads got worse and more intrusive I finally overcame this ;)
I think it's for CZcams to be independent 😂😂😂😂 separation time......
CZcams dug their own hole by being too invasive with Ads. I don't feel sorry for them, I wont pity a multi-billion dollar platform belonging to a multi-trillion dollar company. I personally don't care.
I will support anyone who chooses to Ad-Block, and I always donate to creators directly as Ad Revenue is a joke
what creators do you financially support
B-b-b-but YT posted "only" $14 BILLION profit last year. 😢
Why does CZcams doesn't have to comply to the laws on TV advertising in the different countries. There a lot of countries with a maximum number of minutes per hour, and a minimum of taste, decency and no scams. And no alcohol, tobacco and gambling for certain age groups....
Ohhh shiiit I didn't even consider the fact that apps on smart TVs would need to adhere to laws for satellite/cable TV 💀 This is a messy part of the streaming business.
Because they aren't from those countries. Those countries can choose to block CZcams for not following the country's rules, but that doesn't put the burden on CZcams.
@@LoganChristianson they had, and have (largely) complied with the cookie and GDPR (privacy) legislation. And those are much newer than the for example "TV without border" EU directive.
@@JJVernig Yup, CZcams will not want not close off a major market like Europe. If the EU brings in legislation to limit advertisements online much like we have on TV, CZcams will comply in those countries. Nations like the US will probably continue to get a huge number of advertisements.
To be fair, CZcams _doesn't_ show those ads to people they _know_ are minors. I distinctly remember getting bombarded by those ads as soon as I turned 18. The only thing they need to work on is taking into account that not every place has the legal age to do these things at 18.
Honestly I'm not even opposed to paying for premium for no ads. The reason I have a third-party client (revanced) is just so i can block CZcams shorts as much as I can. Those scrolling video apps are super addictive for me in a way that long-form videos just aren't, so my only way to healthily engage with the platform is by blocking them entirely, which CZcams as a company doesn't want me to do.
Shorts suck. They need to go or at least only appear if you ask for them.
I have premium but still use revanced for viewing dislikes and other stuff like sponsor blocks which are very very good .
Same here, Premium user and using third-party app to hide Shorts for the exact same reason and to have dislike button back.
The IP checks are so dumb, speaking as someone from a family of people who travel a lot for work. My dad's a truck driver, and also an economic migrant. It's true that I did not get to spend much time with him as I was growing up, but google and netflix deciding that I can't call him family is a bit of a stretch.
I'm just imagining YT going HE'S NOT YOUR REAL DAD like an angry kid at a step-parent!
That's why they don't say "family", they say "household".
Been on youtube for a very long time. CZcams is on a downhill, FAST. It get literally unwatchable without adblockers.
Not only that, but due to all the idiocy at youtube, most of the creators I was watching ended up stopping making video in big part due to youtube itself. Restrictions on this, demonetise for that, close channel because a big TV corporation don't like that it get too popular, that one is not familly friendly enough (but never claim it to be), youtube forcing video to be familly friendly even when the author mark it as unsafe for kid (then youtube bot decide that it is friendly, uncheck the box, disable the box) and then send a policy violation for being unsafe for kid and not marked as such, and so on.
Then they force even more intrusive ads, unskippable, one after the other, remove ways to know if the video is worth watching (because that way you watch more ads), make it harder to report videos, yet make it super easy for competitors to destroy a channel with DMCA takedown.
And now, the suggestions are totally broken. It is the same videos they suggest over and over and over and over. I see nothing new anymore. Trying to see something new result in... The same videos being suggested. You go to the music category? It suggest 32 playlist, on those 6 are from the same artist and all of them is stuff I have seen in the past. There is nothing new there. What about the "New to you" section? It suggest things that I am not interessed, didn't watched, refuse to watch and things I activelly avoid. Nothing good anymore.
Yet, it push ads and sponsored videos (aka ads) every few videos there.
I used to have about 20-30 videos to watch per day. Now, if I have 5 it is a good day. CZcamsrs are going away, and crap is comming in.
Also, let's talk about the legality of youtube ads. You have a children account. Why do they have ads targetting the kid directly? This is against the laws in most places, yet legislators don't act, so youtube push ads on kids illegally, and on purpose.
And not only that, but youtube is selling your informations on top of that. Sure they anonymise it up, but they make money on it still.
CZcams: Accept that you have some users with adblockers and just move on. You are killing the platform by pissing off everyone.
I've said it before: I'm here for the content, not for the ads. When the ads interrupt the content, the ads will get cut through _any means I see fit_
I grew up with TV with commercials, so I wouldn't mind if it were like that but the ad experience on YT is NOTHING like that.
Yeah 3rd party adblocking apps are never going to stop. The user base is way too big
That plus there are tons of people helping and contributing to the open source code. We will always find a way to bypass anything CZcams throws at us.
@@Tall_Order and i will never stop to thank you for that!
Look at how YT tried to remove the dislike-counter and people figured out a way to bring it back (more or less). It's the same with this. The most that YT can do is to lock access behind a paywall (and break a TON of things), but that'll only hurt tiny channels and videos that aren't popular and prevent growth and further incentivize alternate platforms.
@@I.____.....__...__Except this is different. CZcams can just decide to not send you the video stream until after they send you the ad stream. The most any adblocker could do in that case is simply hide and mute the ads and show you a countdown
The scale, length and and amount of ads is the problem.
Not the ads.
people have always blocked ads regardless of scale, length, and amount.
@@Ryan-093 Yes I know but the scale of ads etc is way too much
When I get a 3½ minute unskippable ad of someone *_yelling_* at me about an *_obvious scam product or service,_* then the ads themselves are also the problem.
@@Ryan-093 Ads were completely atrocious in the earlier days of the internet. While they might have been less bad on youtube, there was more incentive back then to get adblocker when ads on text pages would blast things out of your speakers at max volume from nowhere or suddenly fill half the page.
@@Junebug89Mozilla had a good fix for those.
FFS, I have YT Premium. I watched the Robot video you just uploaded, and put this one in queue, and ever since CZcams announced this crack down, queued videos give an error saying “failed to load”.
Seriously, Apple and Google have been so bad on quality control lately.
Don't forget the raise in price. I canceled mine. Not paying $14.99 when I've been paying $9.99 for years!
I don't think it is just google and apple anymore
Yeah it's been bugging out for me too. Happens every time they make these changes.
I was having insane buffering issues, issues with background play, issues with que, issues with music and then they raised the price so I ended up removing premium and I'm now back on running ad blockers, it's so stupid how CZcams is handling everything and it's just hurting the vast majority of regular users and people who do wanna support all to punish the minority who use ad blocks most of which probably get data mined out the back end
@@kuma_score7536 To think, people who use ad blockers are such a small number compared to the overall population. It's like PC enthusiasts. There are perhaps a few million on the planet. Out of 7 billion. And of those minority of users, there's a small percent who use ad blockers. Many tend to pay for the services. Whoever's leftover will use other means to access content. However, that last segment is the minority of the minority. It's kind of overkill to make a point, one which doesn't really matter because savvy people are rare. The majority of tech users just use the tech. They don't want to think about it. So they'll either pay or view the ads. They won't even know ad blockers exist, nor want to figure out how to use them. Believing the small number using ad blockers are eating into your already high profits is probably costing more money than they'd ever get from those people viewing ads. But I'm used to corporations. They'll often spend $100 to get $1, out of principle. Or something.
Currently the u/Block team doesn't even take donations afaik. You'd be surprised how much money they could collect to pay devs to fight Google head on if they wanted. Premium costs 13 f-ing Euro per month, if I sent them 5 on patreon I'd still save the cost of a phone plan per month.
Not to mention CZcams is being extremely annoying with adding more ads and not even regulating them, letting a ton of malicious ads through. I went to the official app and after two videos I went back to ReVanced because I got 2-minute ads in 10-minute videos not to mention one was a crypto scam and the others were complete garbage. CZcams should get a good ad system if they want people to use it
Fight Google head on, on the grounds that “removing the means by which we reimburse you for the otherwise free content we consume is legal because what you want us to pay is too high” does not sound like a winning legal strategy, I don’t care how much money you can raise.
@@shivorath
I'd go even further - a completely unique browser fork for it if necessary, so Google can't kick it out of the Chrome Web store. If it blocks all ads, which legal ground would Google have to sue the developers? Nuking another browser would, if anything, bring them into hot waters with the EU.
And if you really care about creators, two bucks a month on patreon.
Does this still work.
@@ryanzmuda3167
u-Block? Sure.
It's not so much that I will boycott youtube if they actually manage to make adblockers ineffective, it's more that the service they offer would no longer be desirable. If they used a tenth of the stringent content control they do on creators on the ads and complied with content/ad time broadcast laws I could see myself using youtube without an adblocker.
You're still a vampire steeling from content creators. You leaving CZcams is good for creators.
I'm not stealing anything@@veilmontTV, I've been supporting the content creators I enjoy through Patreon/Buy me a coffee for years now so they can keep doing what they're doing.
@@veilmontTV lol they post it on pubblic site, it's their choice to post it, they can always post video only for their paiying subscriber :P
I’m sure more people would be ok with advertising if Google enforced their rules on scam ads to the extent they enforce their other arbitrary rules on CZcams creators.
You don't need buffering, error messages or videos failing to load... you already have those with Firefox no adblocker needed, I'm also a premium subscriber who is encountering all of these issues.
If I don't see ads it's because of mental reasons. Horror ads have forced me to remove them permanent. On top of unethical and malware inducing Ads.
Just curious what you mean with horror ads?
@@jasonbraun127 Ads for horror movies possibly? Many people are sensitive to the shit they're showing, even in trailers and ads
I have a lot of trans friends, and when they are trying to wind down from work and watch YT and get served an a political ad from a politician who advocates for genocide, they get sorta upset.
I hate CZcams around Halloween time because the ads for thriller and horror movies seriously disturb me.
That and I wish things more private things like medical searches, would be blocked from targeted ads.
When has CZcams ever served a malware advert?
im not parasitic, i feed on their data, they feed on my data, i don't see the unbalance in our relationship
unfortunately your data isn't as financially valuable as what it costs to run this platform...it's like you walking into a shop and paying less than what's asked, and only because the shop was able to take some money off of you before you left
@@R0DSTER youtube's business is influence.
@@wontcreep back it up...what exactly are they influencing users to do/think then?
I can see the imbalance: the creators you're watching are getting absolutely nothing for your views. You should feel a bit crap about that. It's a three-way economic relationship, and you're forgetting about one of the parties.
@@BigBoiiLeem when i love the work of a creators (and i mean every creator, artists, and such, not only on youtube) such that i do not want them to stop, there is only one coherent decision to make, to support them so that they don't need to do something else to live.
It happens rarely, but i give to them directly, and absolutely not through the taxation fever dream that is youtube.
Everything is in order, but in your eyes you're free to call me selfish, and even immoral for chosing my own price, i simply do not agree.
i just dont want to see ads at any point in my life. they dont even work. when i didnt use ad block the adverts id get would nearly always be the same 3 products which i already owned. its almost a scandal.
also tonnes of adverts for scams and "business" get rich schemes. sort your adverts out make them less obstructive and I'll watch it
@@bakerbaker4455
Half of my ads are ponzi schemes and scam online courses. Then there's 40% I wouldn't care about in any possible timeline, and 10% I'm already aware of and either own or don't want to buy.
The last time my adblock failed I had some psycho screaming at me trying to sell public speaking courses. Ads are flat out abusive at this stage
Ads work, but maybe don't the shitty ones
So here's what CZcams did. They made apps like Revanced and Newspipe not work properly. Apps that use microg are heavily effected. There are some workarounds but I haven't been able to get them to work. Newspipe works but you can't see comments anymore. Revanced buffers indefinitely after 20s but shorts still works. The regular CZcams app is fine even though all 3 are installed. Thats what I think they missed in this segment (probably b/c they have CZcams premium and dont use these apps.)
I have my adblocker turned off for CZcams, and I have CZcams Premium, yet I still get all the buffering, error messages, and videos that won't load. This all began when they started the crackdown.
The system level check should be absolutely illegal at this point
😁
Switch to u.block origin and enable it for youtube. It fixed the buffering for me
CZcams is and has been extremely profitable for years. The problem is we know the creators won't see a dime. Many 1+ million sub channels are shutting down because the ad revenue just doesn't pay the bills. Linus was smart to diversify income but this will ultimately lead to desperate creators takimg more and more unethical ad deals to stay afloat lowering the value proposition of the platform to the userbase.
The is a race to the bottom for Google. They will inevitably end up like Disney Plus...
If YT makes money from splitting ad revenue, and they are making more than ever, would that not imply that creators are making more as well?
Only if your content is deemed advertiser friendly (cracker milk, almostfridaytv, etc...)
Pretty sure Google is paid regardless of ad performance. Creators are only paid based on ad clicks.
@@Triflixfilms creators are also paid based on ad views, got a friend with 200k+ subs and we've seen views and average view time go up the past 8 years and revenue go down year by year. But also noticed that more and more ad controls were taken away over the years to actually make it less annoying for viewers. Also had to explain why there are more and more ads while we didn't even monetize a video, people started leaving the channel because they thought he was being greedy with the ads while in fact he was trying to turn everything off and set up a Patreon on the side for people that wanted to support the channel that way instead.
Just a crapshow.
The people with millions of subs are millionaires. Dont give me this "it doesnt pay the bills" BS.
Except creators all get a 55% cut of all ad revenue? Any changes they make that increase the amount of ads will also benefit creators
My problem with most CZcams ads is what they are - stupid, loud, disgusting, scammy, not relevant to me... CZcams without CZcamsPremium, Or 3rd party apps is absolutely unusable. And i am a student, how can I afford CZcamsPremium, Spotify, Netflix, and ~20 more services.
Pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get a third job. We all have to do our part for the billion dollar corporations.
I used to don’t mind ads
And I still don’t in some ways, but the INSANE amount now MADE me block ads because I just can’t stand it
I would go back if it was just one or two ads per video and with the yellow marker again showing you WHEN it comes
im waiting for them to really block ad blockers so that i can use youtube less, i've already done that when the last wave of ad blocking happened, i'd be quite discouraged to watch shorter videos, especially since i watch at 2x speed
When 3rd party apps are incredibly more customizable and just a 10x better experience for free than when I paid for Premium.... I can't help but use 3rd party apps
Personally I pay Premium, in part, specifically to support channels I like.
If you have premium and use a third party app, it should still work since it's not blocking any ads (cause you're never served any)
Oh don't worry, i won't stop using youtube when they try to crack down on it and make the experience even worse than it already is.
Out of spite i will put even more traffic here in a fashion that i don't notice, just to cost them more money :)
Ad blocker blockers will just encourage Ad blockers to improve. I don't think CZcams will win.
Well CZcams can definitely win this. In the worst case, when YT starts playing an ad for you, they can keep a timestamp on their server, and if any request for the next chunks of video comes before (timestamp + 2:00) minutes, it would just refuse the request. So now, either you watch the ads, or you remain petty, and sit through a black screen, but you sure as shit won't be able to skip 'em.
@@VivekYadav-ds8oz People will just make a client that uses yt-dlp to download videos to serve to you, then delete the space it would take up. This way, you literally cut out the platform completely. The only downside is that you wouldn't be able to comment or anything, but if the theoretical custom client that circumvents CZcams's systems completely added the ability to make accounts and stuff like that specifically for this theoretical platform, then it could literally replace the website, making ads literally impossible to be shown to users unless the creators of the client allow it.
People will find a way to block ads, no matter how complicated and annoying the process of setting it up is.
@@VivekYadav-ds8ozI think a big contributor to youtube's issue is that the ads they've been pushing are bad enough that people would rather have their screen turn black for a while than have to hear/see them. Even if they were to crack down, they'd just lose a method of tracking ad watches as people left their tvs running a blank screen, and this might lead to ad purveyors backing out. These sketchy ads also seem to push people away from wanting to pay their premium price even more. It turns into a "Why should I support this" kind of situation when someone is pushed toward considering YT premium by disgusting ads.
I think the worst case scenario for ad blocking would be a blank screen, as you say. I just think that it would still be an issue for youtube with the current state of their ads.
@@VivekYadav-ds8ozadblocker for twitch already do this, and yes, plenty of people would rather wait at a black screen than watching ads.
@@VivekYadav-ds8oz That's a perfectly fine solution too, For a few weeks a year or so back Twitch did this. They would just stream a blue screen for 30 seconds and then resume. 30 seconds of silence is better than 30 seconds of advertisements. With that said, ad blockers evolved and now even those kinds of adblock-preventions can be worked around.
If they want me to look at ads, they need to crack down on all the scams. Because my brother got scammed into buying a crappy TV antenna pretending to be "secret nasa tech" from one of these video ads...
Ads are not displayed in a way that matches humans attention span it started with a long link ....then added to video ....we still need more creative ways so a person watching the video won't feel disturbed and still won't miss it
As long as there are suckers, there will be scammers.
Don't they know how dangerous it is to skip ads while driving?
Ok but when is CZcams going to do something about all the trash advertising and spam ads that are straight up fake. Every other ad I see is for a bs mobile game with a fake ad
The problem with CZcams ads, they don't follow a logical stoppage of a program like television, it's a bit like a person (youtuber) talking to another person listening (the viewer) when suddenly a third person (the salesman) body slams the person talking out of the way, then proceeds to start selling a product to the person that was listening (the viewer), in the real world the viewer would tell the salesman to buzz off and wouldn't buy the product.
That's on the creator. CZcams will automatically place midroll ads, but creators can choose to manually decide where midrolls go
I think that now that CZcams does not allow AdBlock they should be held liable if their ads advertise anything malicious.
As much as I hate youtube's management, I have never once regretted paying for Premium, or as it was when I started, Red.
Its well worth it.
Tbh have u seen the ads,...scams....mobile phone games ...to allow them on means they have little morales anyway lol
Let's not get too hasty, being negligent in their due diligence to check ads (which may be understandable, not sure how many companies and "companies" have ads that must be managed on YT) isn't the same as knowingly allowing them.
@@RippahRooJizah It absolutely is the same. If a billboard company put up hardcore pornography on a highway, would it not be their fault?
@@kallemort I never took fault off of YT. I'm just saying I don't think it's YT being malicious, it's YT being negligent.
Or in other words, I do not believe YT is actively trying to scam viewers with scam ads, they need to do a better job at sifting them out.
Now, if there are Prom Peddlers (You know what I mean) whom are known to peddle Proms and have YT put in stuff for what can Hardly be Coresidered Proms, that's another issue.
@@RippahRooJizah It would be negligent it this was the first time. But shitty ads have been appearing for years, intentional negligence is malicious.
@@kallemort I don't fully agree with the sentiment, since I'm uncertain the specific mix of the negligence is laziness, ineptitude, apathy, being too busy, and being tricked, but I get your point.
But let me be clear, we seem to agree what they are doing is pretty trash (well, I'm more or less taking people word for it. Been paying for premium for years because while I want to skip the ads, I also want to support content creators more than use adblock on YT), there is just some disagreement as to what their poor performance entails.
I didn’t mind ads, but what broke me was the amount of ads on a video increased along with un-skipable ads, and then ads lasting 45 minutes, which was ridiculous when you’re trying to use a cooking tutorial and your hands are dirty.
its fair that this is the opinion of a content creator on CZcams therefore it's bound to be on the side that isn't blocking ads
but you need to understand how brutal it is to watch a CZcams video with the amount of (often unskippable) ads that are shoved down your throat... no offence but there isn't a single video on CZcams that's worth going through all that for especially in an age where media is becoming quick and easy to consume like Tiktok and Insta reels.
I dont think most creators understand that CZcams is a data scraping and advertising tool for CZcams and partner businesses. Your content is mostly worthless. CZcams does not exist without its users and visaversa. Lucky for them, they have a monopoly
To be fair, you are effectively saying his opinion shouldn't really be considered *only* because he's a content creator.
He understands, he's spoken about this stuff before.
And don't discount YT videos by comparing them to Tiktok and Instagram. I go through YT Shorts every so often but I certainly wouldn't be satisfied with just 15-60 second videos.
Go ahead, AdBlock always wins the game.
Adblock will always be able to hide the ads but Google will always have the option to just not stream the content to you until your client passes a check for if the ad played leaving you on a black screen for the duration of the ad regardless.
@@xXShadDragXx This is false, Twitch has tried doing this but ultimately failed. Ad blockers will always win. There's too much red tape surrounding organisations like CZcams and pushing code to production, and all it takes is an hour for someone to resolve the issue and update the extension.
@@xXShadDragXx That's been tried before, and we always find a way around that too.
@@Tall_Order Google has an ace up it's sleeve it can deploy and that it wants to sneak in under the radar to make them win this entire Adblock game.
Their Manifest V3 and control of plugins in the Chrome store, by controlling Google Chromium, the browser itself, they can decide if you want to block it or not and they have been slowly moving towards it.
And they know that the average Joe or their biggest market is NOT going to change webbrowser to block ads, and since most browsers are Chromium anyway, Google still holds the control here.
Only saving grace that can stop them is if EU sees their cards and starts writing fines, and we end up with an internet split down the Atlantic regarding practices.
@@xXShadDragXx black screen>youtoube ads
The question isn't "do you want any ads?" rather "do you want to see less ads that impede your viewing experience?", because even if you pay for premium, you will still see ads from youtubers who physically plug their ads into their videos. So sick of anticonsumerism
I have CZcams premium and I STILL have crap tons of issues with CZcams playback, started a few weeks ago, has nothing to do with adblocking.
I'll block ads all day long , once that is obsolete, I'll leave. and do something else.
Unless they start outright banning every account that is detected to have used an adblock, they cant really stop it.
CZcams doesn’t care if you leave, realistically 98% of there users will stay. That was Linus’s whole point.
I block ads because CZcams went over the top with them, without an adblocker it is worse than commercial TV substantially worse
Not at all?? Each ad I get lasts 5-15 seconds and they come paired so that's like 30 seconds of ads at most. TV ad breaks last 2-3 minutes and come up about as frequently (every 10 minutes or so- but honestly, I think CZcams provides like 15-20 minutes uninterrupted). People are just extremely spoiled and forgot what TV was even like
I had to block someone from my channel because they complain to me as if I was the one putting ads on my own videos.
I kept telling them I have no partnership here on CZcams and CZcams are the ones putting the ads on my videos.
the best way to boycott youtube is cause their costs to rise.
waste their bandwith and shit.
with a 999/999 connection you can waste *alot* of their bandwith.
Google don't pay for their bandwidth. ISPs pay Google to peer directly with their services. With that at their disposal, their bandwidth is basically infinate, and you're costing your ISP money, not Google. Although your ISP already factored that into their T&C's
If it wasnt for the "free - with Ads" idea, the internet would not be a fraction of where it is today; this is just a large company trying to push away from adverts and encourage the ones who are using these apps buy a membership; which will ultimatly have ads anyway (see netflix and prime)
You heard from sponserblock
Here's my two cents. Adblock is absolutely needed. Until Google actually makes the ads non intrusive, not full on infomercials that can last for literal hours, and make sure the ads are spam, potential scams, I'm guns keep my blocker on.
Knowing Google, and CZcams in particular, they are definitely *not* backing down on third party apps that don't block ads.
McDonald is a better example if you think of those people boycotting, taking up seats in the restaurant, while obviously not ordering anything.
Thats a better analogy. I'm old so for me it's like Kramer boycotting Jerry's fridge.
McDs and BK have vegetarian burgers and a lot of vegetarian customers. A boycot would definitely be felt.
@@FantasticOtto that's why its a bad analogy since these are not paying customers
@@damiang888 What, they get the veggie burgers for free? Or they steal them? I don’t follow.
What I really want is for the creators to have proper control over the ads on their videos, minimum: they need to be able to say "this ad is for an alt-right self help program, do not show it", best: the creators can negotiate directly with ad companies
I'd be perfectly fine with CZcams ads if the quality of the ads wasn't so insanely low. There are legitimate scams running as ads on CZcams
Every once in a while I go to CZcams on my PS5 and the experience (with ads) is worse than free over the air television.
Even if you're a Premium Subscription user on CZcams AND have AdBlock installed but NOT enabled on CZcams you will still get _"fake"_ buffering issues where it'll buffer a full minute of a video, but will immediately go straight to buffering after like 10 seconds of trying to play a video that it apparently buffered into memory, and videos failing to load properly or the video will reload the page multiple times before it'll actually play the video. You have initial load of visiting a video, but immediately after that first initial load, it'll reload the page 2 more times to fully load the video you're trying to watch. So regardless if you're Premium with AdBlock enabled or disabled, you're still going to get these issues no matter what you do, because CZcams has multiple scripts to execute, first to check IF you have Premium, and another IF you have AdBlock or third-party installed and/or enabled on CZcams specifically.
This coin has two sides.
If YT keeps putting long, unskippable, obnoxious, borderline sus ads into our faces, they shouldn't be surprised that people have had enough of it.
So instead of cracking down on the users, who are more of a victim in this scenarion, google should confront the ad providers and tell them to cut the predatory crap.
I have zero tolerance for ads. One way or another, I'm not watching ads.
It's not about the money.
CZcams ReVanced offers infinitely more features and customization than CZcams Premium will probably ever have. Even if ReVanced was twice the price of Premium, I'd still stay on ReVanced.
If CZcams wants ad-blockers like me to buy premium (which I am totally open to doing), the official CZcams client and website must have at least the same level of features that extensions and 3rd-party apps offer.
The longer CZcams seems to not understand this, the longer this ad-block war will continue.
So, I ask, does support for the creators who make YT videos not enter into the equation?
I'm not saying stop using what you are using, though. I'm just saying it should be considered, even if you decide against it.
I say this as someone who pays for Premium, in part, to support creators, and I'd rather pay for Premium than use an adblocker on YT.
@@RippahRooJizah most viewers dont care about supporting creators as supporting creators is what mostly ruined youtube in the first place as everyone started treating youtube as a job instead of something to do on the side or for fun and also its not like they cant get support else where from the people who actually want to/ have the money to with things like pat reon and getting sponsors
@@RippahRooJizah Yeah, that's the one flaw with ReVanced.
I guess the best solution right now would be to pay for Premium while using ReVanced? It sounds silly but it addresses your valid concern.
Ideally, ReVanced users could just donate to channels, but a lot of people forget to do that, me included.
If 3rd-party CZcams clients lose the ability to block ads, yet still maintain all their other features, I could see myself buying Premium.
That way, I could have all of my must-have features, and support the channels I watch.
@@OverkillBillsXbox I'd say Google buying CZcams did more harm than helping out creators. Yes, there are other ways to gain financial compensation but in the end its an option. Not like every sponsor is legit, though, and not everyone can really pull off having a patreon; they are all options with upsides and downsides.
Just like Gabe Newell said
"Ending a piracy is not by making the anti piracy technologies work, but by making the original things more appealing and more acceptable to the users than the pirate does"
to be completely fair, I WAS going to buy premium and stop using adblock a couple months back... then youtube raised the price and started doing some of the dumbest things ever, so I gave up
my main issue with ads in the current year is that they are so intrusive. This isnt just for youtube but in my experience, mobile apps. the music player ive been using forever had a harmless little bar ad on the top of the app. Not obstructing the use of the app while still being there, i honestly didnt mind it. But when i download a wallpaper app and every time i download ONE wallpaper, it shows me a 30 second ad?? theres literally more ad than usability in some of these money grabbing apps and social platforms. Even just the other day, i was watching some short youtube clips, not youtube shorts but just short youtube videos, it showed me 2 unskippable 30 second ads for a TWO SECOND VIDEO. it just gets so tiring and you just say screw it and get an ad block. also its just generally not safe to use the web today without an adblock. so many hidden malicious things out there.
Linus usually says that adblocking is tantamount to piracy. I say that it's closer to stealing than piracy, because you are actually costing the platform money, whereas piracy costs the publishers nothing.
With CZcams not taking any accountability with all the scams and the allowing verified scammers running like 200-300 ads at any given time, plus the amount of ads they are forcing upon users, i honestly would rather quit using CZcams.
It is not worth the money of subscription for most people around the world. Either they don't value the content enough and see it as just a time filler like tiktok or any other social media platform or it is expensive for them. This is just an opinion anyways.
I just flatout don't want to see ads, period. None of them, anywhere, ever.
All I would get out of Premium is no ads, I don't care about background play, their fake "downloads" that don't actually just give you an mp4, or youtube music. So this is just them selling me ad-free youtube, none of the extra features.
At an astronomically high CPM of 10€, watching 20 Videos a day, that's 6€ of revenue per month. At a more down to earth but still high 4€, it's 2.4€. There's no way I'm paying 13€ a month for that.
If CZcams offered a basic plan, that's like 5€ a month for no ads, though, that'd actually be interesting.
The thing is, that's the whole game, "no ads" is what they're selling, if youtube had tiers like netflix and it was "5 eur = some ads", "12 eur = no ads" and "17 eur = no ads+4k+download videos", people would talk like the middle tier is the only one.
@@damiang888 Tbh that'd probably be the best marketing strategy. I'd still hate it though at those prices, because I KNOW at least 50% of that 12€ is pure profit
@@damiang888 That's POP UP ads, what about baked in sponsor ads, they're ads and should be removed as well.
They used to have youtube premium lite (only ad removal) at ~$5 which I was happily paying. And then they discontinued that last october and forced me to chose between full premium or nothing. And full premium is just not worth it for me.
I don't use add blocker, but there are 2 things in youtube that make my blood boil. I use youtube when I'm on the bike, in the shower, doing shores around the house. I use it to listen to music, listen to shows like this. First just let your phone go on stand by and let the youtube add continue to play. And also have an option to automaticly skip adds when the 5 or so seconds are over. The amound of times that I'm in the shower listening to music, new song starts and on a 3 minute song they have a 2 minute add, which is skippable but I'm in the shower and phone is not with me in the shower. I know that these things can be solved by paying for youtube premium but that is not the point.
If youtube is going to force ads, then it ABSOLUTELY needs to ensure that its advertisers are not scammers or infecters.
It also needs to block ALL content creator ads. youtube calculates the maximum number of ads that viewers will tolerate and serves them. When content creators ad their own sponsorship ads, that ruins that already shitty algorithm.
Tf are you smoking?
@@The-Caged-King 40 people understood me perfectly. Maybe read it again and see if you can work it out?
So far google doesn’t care. Most are scammers.
This right here... a couple years ago, my boss searched "google" ON google and clicked the first link. it was an ad (disguised as a legit result which is a separate issue) from a malicious actor.
Those scammers are large portion of their revenue.
google needs to stop... like bruh enough forcing ads! it's a nightmare, that's why I left tv
I used to block ads on CZcams, but I always felt bad about it. I switched to Premium, and now my conscience is clear, and my sightline free of ads.
I do agree with you, they wouldn't care about me. For 95% of channels I watch, I block ads. There are only 2 channels that I intentionally enable ads because that's how much I appreciate their content.
I did try to turn off ad blocker for CZcams for a day, I quit that idea after an hour. Ads for 30s - 1min - 2min.. killed me. Especially if you're listening to music! It's unplayable.
Also First :P 15s after upload video popped in my feed
Why Watch those 95% of Channels and waste your time, when you don't value the Creators of those Channels?
@@Illiminator31 You ask me that, while using an Ad blocker yourself currently. If you honest to yourself and you aren't using ad-blocker, then either you really care about creators (which is good) or don't know how to install it (which is bad).
In general, Ad blockers at this point is a "must essential tool" You are not recommended to browse the internet without one.
Good time to remember that you can get CZcams premium for like $2 per month using a VPN
The moment they get rid of adblocking, I can almost guarantee you they will come for creators inserting their own adds in videos. They tried it in the past but with adblocking gone, they can easily force everyone to advertise officially.
I'm not sure what they could get out of that deal. Creator ads don't impede CZcams from serving their own ads and it ultimately means Creators are less whiny about being paid by CZcams directly.
I’m in the CZcams App, with a premium subscription and a 1 Gig connection and I’ve had weird buffering issues on random videos all weekend.
I don't mind watching the occasional ad but once when I was getting like 2+ ads during a 12 minute video it started pushing me to use adblock more
If they make the site less usable than alt/new-tech sites, and people still refuse to move their content over to those sites, I may just replace the CZcams player with an alternative embedded player.
Dear CZcams:
The reason why people are using ad blockers is because your ad viewing experience makes the use of your product unbearable. If you find yourself ever attempting to "force" your users into a type of behavior, then that should be taken as evidence that your product is bad and _you_ are the one who needs to adapt, not your users.
Yes, you have costs. Yes, you have avenues to disable ads. But at the end of the day, all that is nonsense to your users. Because all they see is an unusable platform.
Adblocking, as with piracy, only happens as a response to a poor service and not out of maliciousness.
People want to support the things they enjoy. They just don't want to feel like they are being taken advantage of and abused.
Fix your stuff and the adblockers will go away.
I didn't have a problem with ads on YT until they became so aggressive, unpleasant, and downright dangerous. The best way for google to fight adblockers is to clean up ads with better standards and oversight.
The biggest problem with this is that I use a 3rd party client JUST to get rid of shorts, they're everywhere and there's no built in way to hide them. I pay for YT premium to have no ads and get the music features etc. I just don't want shorts at all.
I paid for youtube premium for 2 years at 9.99 they raised the price. I quit and am now a pirate.
Imagine threatening something that happens even when you don’t have adblocking
The issue isnt ads. CZcams continually makes the app worse and expects us to sit and smile about it.
I can choose my feed, remove shorts, return the original quality menu, go above 2* speed, have extensions... Its just a better experience with or without ads
The main issue here is that the price of Premium is too high, and I'm convinced that if they dropped it by 75% so it was a very reasonable price the uptake would be much much higher, even more so for a family subscription.
YT should not shadow-ban videos that aren't "advertiser friendly". People that pay for the service should have an un-censored experience.
I have premium and still use an ad blocker. It allows me to completely remove shorts from my home page. CZcams should really stop trying to shove them down people's throats.
The problem is, CZcams is a monopoly and they want to keep it that way. So they can't ban adblocking apps as users would leave CZcams.
With a monopoly, there come many obligations. Freedom of speech is one of those which is not given on YT.
So, I don't see how anybody in their right mind could give them a single dollar.
If CZcams goes after adblocking - they have to, in turn, reduce the amount of ads down to a bearable level again. Reverse the doom spiral: more adblocking - less total ads shown - more ads per viewer - more pissed off viewers - back to square 1.
I don't fully agree that if you're not watching ads or paying for premium, you don't provide any kind of value to Google. The data they are able to collect is still extremely valuable and the fact that said data is not ringfenced for diagnostic purposes only when you buy premium is disgusting.
I didn't get that vegan argument. Many people become vegan later in life. If you go to McDonald's, then become vegan and boycott them, yeah, that's a customer lost. I'm not a vegan btw, just didn't understand the argument he was trying to make.
6:00 I've been CZcams Premium Family Plan since it was an option. So nice sharing it with friends and family. Plus I had CZcams TV and it also follows the list of family members from YT Premium.
Linus, the problem isn't that people running ad blockers will boycott CZcams, the problem is that people who were chased into installing ad blocking apps or extensions thanks to how annoying CZcams ads are will instead be chased off the platform, and the more obnoxious the ads get the greater effect this will have.
If google spent the time that you guys did to vet their advertisers even just a little bit, they never would have lost me as an ad viewer. I didn't even block all ads the first time my browser was hijacked, it took 2 or 3 times for me to finally give in. Now that I've crossed that line into using an adblocker and pihole, I will NOT go back.
as a premium user, i would be fine with the stock youtube app.
if and i mean if CZcams would at the bare minimum honor the settings they provide in their profile page.
the setting i speak of is if i want those automatic subtitles on or not.
i keep turning them off on that profile page daily basis, yet when i open the stock app and there is a mismatch between the content and my user interface languages.
for example this video is in English. now if i were to open this on stock CZcams app on my phone, Android tv television or literally anything else.
as long as the interface is in my native language (Finnish), CZcams tries to act all smarts and enables those subtitles automatically.
so i have to constantly hit that CC button to turn them off.
I would pay for CZcams premium if it wasn't for all the 2 minute long baked in ads I'm still going to see.
I started using ad blockers because I was being bombarded with ads related to gambling and to politics. Right before doing that, I discovered that Google provides an option to block gambling stuff (you can also block some other "controversial" categories as well), but there was nothing related to politics, and that was the main problem at the time, because it happened a few weeks prior to an election.
My point here is that, not only me, but many people resort to ad blockers because they just can't bear certain types of ads or certain sponsors. For that reason, if Google were to give users a way to block basically any category of advertisement and any sponsor (and make it evident that it is possible), I believe they would be able to reduce a little bit the number of people that end up using ad blockers. In order to prevent abuse, they could simply limit the number of categories and sponsors to be blocked.
I pay for premium and enjoy YT across my phone, tvs, laptop. So yeah... 10/10 as a service.
Linus, you're missing one major aspect. As a non-paying but currently ad watching viewer of CZcams... I watch ads.
And as they make it worse and worse -- go from one ad to two, go from 15 second to FIFTEEN MINUTE ads, remove the ability to skip ads from phone lock screens, remove the ability to skip both ads at once -- they are pushing me to either block ads and/or become one of those boycott CZcams people.
CZcams loses an ad watcher the more and more junk they make the watching experience.
The stick doesn't work -- the carrot does. CZcams doesn't get this and just like all goliath platforms in history, it will fall.
I've been paying for a CZcams premium family plan since the Google pixel 1 came out. I don't even ask for reimbursement from my friends and family. When we hang out and watch yt I don't want to see ads. That's worth the price of admission