HOW MUCH 3.0 Duramax Oil Pump Belt Service will cost you
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- čas přidán 19. 09. 2023
- 3.0 Duramax Diesel Silverado and Sierra 1500 LM2 LZ0 www.duramaxnews.com/post/the-...
Breakdown of the cost of the oil pump belt for the 3.0 Duramax Diesel.
2020-2022 150,000 Mile interval
2023+ all 3.0 Duramax engines (LM2 and LZ0) 200,000 miles As an Amazon Affiliate / Influencer, I earn from qualifying purchases. Your support is appreciated as it helps the channel to continue to test products!
www.duramaxnews.com - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Absolutely insane for something that could have been engineered differently
zero issues though....
maybe you should take a weekend to re engineer it... you know better than some of the world's best engineers... yawn
@@sethlover6498yeah, he does.
@@sethlover6498you do realize that is a dickhead comment. There are a few different ways already in use to drive pumps and accessories. Also the oil pump in this engine uses a knife and slot drive in the drive shaft for the pump. A clear failure point that could have been done very differently for more reliability. This engine has some very good engineering in it but it also has some very bad ideas like the belt drive oil pump
@@holmes1956Ooh I’m well aware that I made a dick head comment. People who come to the internet to re educate some of the worlds best engineers on engine designs… deserve dick head comments… you should sit this one out too… you claim a failure point.. on a belt that is designed to last 200k miles… hahahaha 200k miles… seriously how many miles you want this stuff to last… eternity? Please go sit down..
Oil pump belt? Wth is wrong with people who thought that was a good idea....
on certain fords the belt breaks down and clogs the oil pickup
@@michaelderkacz5526 NICE. Ford is doing it too? From the company that brought us the six-point-BLOW!
Yeah, now Ford has a recall on this belt.
Its like the engineer was mad cause his wife slept with the CEO
@@Mr_Meowingtons Only for the 1.0 Ecoboost. The 2.7 EB and 5.0 Coyote F-150's are not recalled and they're still using them as far as I am aware. Gasoline that ends up in the engine oil causes them to degrade prematurely.
Chuckling watching this as I listen to the 5.3L tick that has been ongoing for the last 200,000 miles.
Little piston slap, she'll be fine. Mine has 264,400 miles on it. :-)
@@FastBowtie388 264,400! What year do you have?
@@daeladub 08 Silverado 5.3 liter. Never been in the engine and the only part I have replaced on it was the throttle body
@FastBowtie388 good stuff. Your maintenance must be on point.
@@daeladub I have a 02 Surburban I turned into a hunting wagon, 434,000 miles , engine hasnt been apart. Purrs like a kitten, starting to burn oil , but heck thats cheap .
As a 40 plus year class 8 truck mechanic I cannot believe anyone would drive one of the most important engine components with a belt
Cost simple as that a gear driven one or chain driven simply can’t cost that much more.
@mauricemotors8207 I understand completely it's all about how to get it down the assembly line the cheapest way possible not worrying about quality
@@davidsignor7931 yes sir totally the right answer. Wait till you have to put 10k in batteries every 2 years in them electrics. They aint spending billions on battery plants for a few car batteries
The 3 liter Duramax is designed to fail.
@@thomaswilson8634congrats on winning "dumbest post of the thread"
They’ve refined engine design to the point that they last too long to be profitable by the manufacturer. So, they introduce additional service and maintenance items so those that skip them will have to buy a replacement when something fails or the maintenance burden is so high that the purchase of a replacement is more cost effective or attractive.
GM engineer explained in an interview on the "Pickup Truck Plus SUV Talk" channel that their packaging constraints were really tight and that it would be really difficult to make it a chain or fit it on the front of the engine + if they were able to get it to fit on the front it would be at least as much work tearing the front apart to get at it. Not a case of the engineered in maintenance myth people love to propagate.
@@jooseppiluna5717 They should have been more creative, burying a limited lifespan component deep inside is a poor choice. On the up side, the rear main seal will probably be leaking by the time the belt service interval has been reached, so only a few extra minutes and dollars. We’ll learn the truth if the aftermarket comes up with a chain or gear solution.
Refined engine design? Last too long? There is not a single new reliable diesel since 2007. The “refinement” would be true except, with modern bullsh** diesel emissions equipment, every single modern diesel, heavy duty or light, is a disaster, a money pit and unreliable.
If you remove those… then you may have an argument, alas… you cannot remove those without the long arm of the EPA squashing your neck (and your freedoms) with their doc martins and tens of $$$thousands in legal fees and fines.
@@jooseppiluna5717 Bullshit. Every engine built outside of this and the Ford 2.7 Ecoboost has been made with an oil pump that is NOT driven by a belt. It's an excuse to use a belt.
I could design a chain drive that would fit in there just fine. And I expect that such kits will start to pop up, if this becomes a popular engine.
@@jooseppiluna5717thats bullshit a chain could easily have been fitted without taking any more room. Also a gear drive would use less room
thank you for all the information you provide, I have watched every episode.
You are very welcome !
That's quite a bill for a truck that is just getting paid off on an EIGHT year mortgage!! Yikes!!
200,000 miles in 8 years ?!?!
@@DemonWorks Depends. We average 15k a year now, but will be retiring and the TT will be used more once that happens.
If your financing 8 years, the purchase is outside your budget
@@robedmund9948I drive 20K+ at 68. These trucks are going to hurt the second owners with a $10,000 plus engine/trans bill when they overpay for these as a clean used truck.
lol you guys have fun with this. I’ll enjoy reliability and inexpensive repairs/maintenance on older engines.
To each their own, that's the beauty of having options.
Hell ya. Just picked up a 98, I can do everything on it!
@@DemonWorks Especially if you are rich, huh?
random! thanks for watching! @@jimandersen3003
What GM transmission lasts over 200k? Just replace the belt when the transmission is out getting rebuilt.
Truth !
Glad I'm not alone on that. Problem is, it has to be from GM and change all seals, tensioners, chains and gears too.
349000 on mine when I sold it. No issues. 05 1500 HD.
@@pauldavidcardyou won’t get that mileage out of these new trannys!
@@DemonWorks $15,000? No problem for property barons charging rents 3 times the payment.
Auto engineers are fing us more and more with each "new" design.
They couldn't have designed this better.... C'MON?!
They designed it perfectly, they don’t want your vehicle to run forever they want it to fail as soon as the warranty is up. They have gotten a lot better at engineering lately in the old days to prevent a ton of warranty claims they ended up building stuff too good! They have been taking lessons from the people who design hot water heaters😂
Excellent info, as usual. Thanks
Thanks for watching! Greatly Appreciate the feedback !
Oil pump belt....well if my old 74 gmc had one i would be in trouble. That's the perfect part in the perfect place to get people to buy a new engine just after warranty is over. They don't build them like they used to.
Saw this when I Do Cars tore down a 2.7 Ecoboost, was sooooo disappointed because i was pleased to see that it actually had an external water pump
I've seen your videos before and I engaged with you once about this exact issue (I have the LM2 --> 2022 Silverado 1500 Trail Boss). This is another great video so I finally subscribed to your channel. As a Duramax 3.0L diesel owner, I'd be a fool not to watch your channel. This breakdown is exactly what I've been wanting to see.
Last year I put 6500 miles on the truck (I'm at ~7500 miles now), and I took possession in December of 2022. At that rate, I wouldn't need the belt changed for 20+ years. Even if I start driving it more, which will likely happen, we're looking at 12 to 15 years before that service is required. If I drove it far more like most truck owners, I'd be kind of miffed about this belt change @ 150K miles and understand why some think it's bogus that you have to drop the transmission, and understand why people find it insane. But I'm comfortable with this repair given my low annual mileage.
I might consider selling it after 80K to 100K miles, then turn around and buy a truck outfitted with a V8 Duramax. After watching your videos, that is more likely might happen. But damn, my truck is a unicorn and I'd have a hard time parting ways with it (I say it's a unicorn because it's very hard to find a Trail Boss with a 3.0L diesel with a regular bed (not short!) and a cherry red tint coat. To this day, I've never seen one just like mine, and I live in SoCal. So even with this looming repair, I still might keep it.
Anyhow, I'll stop rambling. Thanks for taking the time to make these videos. Open a Patreon account so people like me can buy you a few beers🍻
500 miles a month, huh? 25,000 when the warranty expires? Must own 10 houses keeping 25 people poor.
They will go bad with time as well as mileage. You're not off the hook at all man. Your call what to do but its going to bite you either when you want, a good bit, or when you don't want it to, really hard. Unless you sell the whole thing
@@jimandersen3003 your assumptions are wrong. I work from home, so I don't rack up miles like commuters. Also, I'm not wealthy. I am able to afford a $65K truck because I am financially responsible. All my debts are paid and I refuse to use credit cards or lines of credit. I know my financial limits and abide by them. I could waltz into a dealership and buy a $100K High Country or F-250 Powerstroke. But I don't because the monthly payment would be out of my comfort zone.
@@the1stvendetta what you're saying can happen to any vehicle at any time, so it's not a revelation. Same goes with the repairs at high mileage - it's anticipated. Your insinuation that it's going to happen regardless of miles, but due to age, does not apply universally. Show me some real evidence with this particular engine that supports your claim, then I'll listen. Until then, what you're saying is merely anecdotal, and likely based on older models (so it's not an apple to apple comparison).
@@jimandersen3003 bro, you're an insufferable loser. grow up
Thanks. Good vid. Got the same weigh safe too. Great ball and hitch.
Thank you!
I worked with the Kevlar positive drive belts back in 2003 on the flying cut off saw in a saw mill . It snips very easily when the saw blade gets jammed by the cut off log . I was very surprised that car manufacturers are using the Kevlar cog belt for oil pumps . I thought they would come out with stainless braided steel cables instead of Kevlar to make the drive belt more shock resistant
Big difference in energy of a flying cut off saw jamming on a log and the shock that an oil pump belt will see. If a small oil pump belt saw anywhere near that much energy, you're breaking your oil pump on top of it.
Glad I have a 98 ford E250 with the 4.2 l V6 Essex engine and oil pump is driven from the cam syncro
There was another CZcams channel that interviewed the chief engineer responsible for this ridiculous belt and he basically said "it is what it is, there was not room to put anything else in to drive the pump." I say BS to that! There is NO REASON why a chain drive would not have worked and NEVER need to replace this thing. It might have been easier to accept is this could have been accessed from the front but NO GM in their infinite wisdom put all this out back so the tranny would have to come off. What it really comes down to is they took the cheapest route possible. I have done maintenance all my life and I will never find it acceptable to induce a maintenance action where none was needed before. I had high hopes for this engine in the 1500 and I hold on to my diesels a long time, now I will never own this engine. When my LMM dies I will just go back to gas. This belt and all the emissions crap has soured me on getting a newer diesels.
Great video. I would be interesting to know what kind of weight that belt is pulling during normal operation. Then it would be interesting to see what kind of force it would take to rip the belt apart using the gears that drive it. Looks to me that the belt was doing great. My guess is that most people with the LM2 will adhere to the 200k interval where no components have changed on the LZO besides the duty cycle. $3k is a bit much for owners to cough up every 150k. Lot's of shade tree mechanics will be doing this to save that kind of $$$.
Great video though. I sure hope you keep us posted on any failures that you see. I think that's what most people want to see, especially the haters.
Change it early. The youtube channel "I Do Cars" did a tear down on a 3.0 Duramax that failed. It was very reliable right up until the belt failed at 147k miles. I Do Cars also got a 2.7 ecoboost in with the same wet belt oil pump setup and that belt had failed at just over 100k miles when chunks of the belt starts coming off, mixed with the oil, and got sucked into the oil pickup screen causing loss of oil pressure. Current theory is that unburned gasoline is very hard on the belt and causes it to deteriorate prematurely. Since Ford now uses a pickup screen that's molded into the bottom of the plastic oil pan, all the debris that settles into the pan gets pulled towards the screen very easily.
@hochhaul the belt didn't fail, the timing chain tensioner did.
Thanks for mentioning those plugs that are covered by the rear cover plate. What are they for and how do you seal them? Do they have o-rings on them or thread sealant?
I used amzn.to/3F0cJNI clean the threads really well, only use a little bit. GM calls for blue loctite there.
Can we come to you for that repair?
Not a diesel tech, but as a gas tech I will say this is an interesting choice coming from the same company that used direct gear drives and chain drives for their oil pumps for....well forever. I'm not doubting it will last 200k miles, but....I will admit, seeing a oil soaked belt and a 200k mile service interval makes me slightly uncomfortable.
Same ! They have so far proven to have zero issues, which is a nice start !
@@DemonWorks You again? You a GM engineer trying to justify this? Sad part is, when these engine all grenade from people not having the money or not knowing it's needed, the law says we can't put in good engines.
@@jimandersen3003oh hi, you commented to me … again… 😂 welcome back. Your sideways comments are always welcome 🎉
Wooow I love all these new designs
Excellent review
Thank you !
I'll cross that one off the list of engines that I might want to own.
Cross off all the engines offered in the F-150. They're all using the oil belt setup now. At least this belt is easy to get to. Ford put theirs at the front of the engine so you're removing all the accessories mounted on the front of the engine, the harmonic balancer, radiator fans, etc. Then once you get the timing chain cover off, you realize that the belt is routed behind the timing chain, so you're removing the timing chain just to change a rubber belt.
@@hochhaul add the failing turbos and cam phasers to his list as well. The duramax's oil pump belt will far out last both of those.
@@polarys425the phasers are fixed after a replacement with the new part. 2021+ already have the part. Not aware of premature turbo failures. But yes most engines have their issues.
@@hochhaul There's no shortage of stupid anymore!
And what are the phasers doing that matters? None on my 2003 and it works great!
Nice to see a breakdown of this. My Dad and I did a bunch of research on the 3.0 before he bought his. Even with this belt replacement, the savings in fuel cost will easily cover it. Plus it’s 2wd, so it will take less time. It’s been a great truck, much better than having a 5.3/6.2 truck sitting at the dealer waiting for non available lifters.
Glad it was helpful! Thank you!
I have calculated the costs and it seems that diesel is actually more expensive than a gas engine per mile. By doing the math, I found that for a gas engine with a mileage of 20mpg on the highway, the cost per mile would be $0.07. On the other hand, a diesel engine with a mileage of 27mpg on the highway and a DEF tank that lasts for 3000 miles would result in a cost of over $0.08 per mile, including the cost of DEF. Therefore, based on these calculations, it appears that gas engines are cheaper per mile compared to diesel engines.
@@tylersmith6979 that's the best way to consider if it's worth it to you. A lot of variables, however. Just comparing to a "gas" engine could go a few different ways. a 5.3 takes 87 octane and a 6.2 takes 91. Where I am, 91 is about 20 cents cheaper than diesel per gallon vs 87 being roughly $1 per gallon. I would rather have a 3.0 duramax than a 5.3 gas truck. I would rather have a 6.2 gas if I didn't drive so much and already have a 21 camaro. My camaro is really close to the same operating cost per mile as the 3.0 duramax.
@@tylersmith6979 That’s all location and driving style dependent. We live in the south so diesel is cheaper. Plus most of what he drives is highway, so the def consumption is minimal- also def is much cheaper at the pump vs buying it by the jug. It’s saved a bunch on fuel and is mulch roomier than his old 2013 Malibu.
In my area of Central Texas the least expensive regular unleaded is $2.46 and least expensive diesel $3.19, using GasBuddy to survey prices. Assuming 17.08 mpg for a 5.3 and 24.57 mpg for the 3.0 diesel as per Fuelly 2023 averages, the difference in raw fuel costs for the 5.3 is $21604 and the 3.0 $19475. Subtract $800 for the higher acquisition cost for the 3.0 on the LT model and the difference left is about $1300, not enough to pay for this oil pump belt job.
Even at $200K the difference is $2039, still not enough to pay for the job at the new recommended 200K interval for 2023+ trucks. But, close if you like the diesel.
The clear low cost leader is the 2.7 Turbomax, which at 19 mpg average will have less real fuel cost than the 3.0, and costs $2390 less than the 3.0 if you do the "build and price" on the GM site for an LT model Silverado 1500.
This is why I picked up a two post hoist ... one service it's paid for .... two I worked for Pontiac and Oldsmobile.... ps when all that is off can you actually access the cam sensor.... you won't have to take the cab off old tech out
Another thought I have a 2002 Silverado 2500HD with the 6.6 Duramax 321k I will now list all the costs associated with the engine in 21 years
One water pump $300?
Two fuel filters $250
Two serpentine belts and idler pulleys $450 …
I had some issue with the transmission that was $850 about 11 years ago.
I changed the oil every 3-4k and that’s it.
Superb! Not sure why that info is shared here, that's an engine from nearly a quarter century ago, may as well list all the repairs my 350 SBC needed while I was growing up. And yes, in regards to your other comment, if an EV is appealing to you and you are looking for any possible reason to justify it... absolutely !
It would be nice to see a little detail on what all of those parts were in your list. Any chance you can post them here?
Agreed
Yes I can, and I will, since you asked.
@@DemonWorks Thank you! Keep up the great work, I enjoy your channel.
What makes the transmission R&I so time consuming?
I don’t have any experience removing transmissions in the current trucks but in older trucks, it was easy to remove the rear driveshaft, remove the transfer case and transmission crossmember bolts, remove the bolts from the bell housing, remove the rigid fluid lines, and slide the whole assembly back. This only took a couple hours.
Can you help everyone understand the work involved with the R&I?
Thanks
Same, essentially but you also need to remove the dpf and the exhaust back pressure valve, the trans cooler and cooler lines, coolant lines…. Nothing is out in the wide open.
Depends if it’s RWD or 4wd, big difference not to mention if you live in the rust belt, good luck getting all the DPF and exhaust off without damage, therefore WAY more expense.
Try changing a 4wd trans on a 2000+/- era with torsion bar suspension in your yard!
@@Juan_n_only how many mechanics do you no with small dainty hands? The ones I know always need my help to even loosen tight bolts and nuts. My hands are a tight fit in xl gloves and my friends tease my popeye forearms…. So, tight fits are extremely time consuming for me and a multitude of mechanics.
Why wouldn’t they make it a chain driven unit ? And why is it in the back of engine? $3000 seems like a lot of money for maintenance on this engine. Plus removing so many components just for this service. Just my thoughts. Thanks for the info.
I would be more than happy with a $3000 charge, but I bet it’s way more. I needed a new thermostat on my 2013 Lml and since it was January I didn’t feel like freezing. Took the truck into the dealer who promptly charged me $149 to diagnose that I needed a thermostat. Three days later the truck was done for a total charge of… drum roll……$1147. I bet the oil belt will run people $5-6,000 easily at a dealership.
I quoted at a dealership level. This number should be what one should expect.
Find another dealer.
@@jackhammer2671Find another truck that doesn't have piss poor designs like this.
@@darkhorseautoanddieselyup something built before 2000
It's junk! Do not buy! Worthless GM engines now except 6.6 Duramax. AFM lifters? LMFAO these engineers have jobs!
Total BS. Oil pumps should be direct driven on the crank. Everything else should be gear drive.
Don't know about anyone else but I don't put 200k miles on my trucks in a 5 year period so that's irrelevant to me personally as far as the belt change...I will be buying a Denali or Denali ultra soon and will get that 3.0 Duramax with all I've heard about it's performance...I love smoothness and sound of N/A V8's and was going to get the 6.2 but heard some horror stories on lifter and engine failures but never heard much bad about that 3.0 so far...so this time I will go with the 3.0 after driving one I was rather impressed with it's get up and go and I've been a V8 truck guy for years...not fussy for the the exhaust note but can't have everything I guess...great detailed info on the belt change for those who will be needing that done however.
Just like a timing belt or serpentine belt, that oil pump belt is going to degrade over time regardless of mileage. GM claims a 15 year lifespan, but I'm not sure I'd trust that considering what other belts often look like after less than 15 years despite no exposure to very hot oil. I Do Cars has some videos showing what oil does to internal belts over time. I'm not saying it will fail within the suggested 15 year/150-200K service interval, just that it's longevity is IMO unproven and waiting 15 years to change it is a risk I wouldn't be comfortable with considering other experiences with belts and the lack of long term data.
The contractor who buys trucks and uses for a living can easily do 100k or more a year…..
@@averyalexander2303the belt in this video had very serious cracks in the valleys of the coged side of the belt. That is a definite failure point
@@holmes1956O For sure!
You have been warned!
78 years old and not worried about replacing this belt.🤣
Is the belt sensitive to oil type? Is there special oil requirements for wet belts?
You can measure the belt tension with a cricket belt tensioner
I know your channel says demonworks, but you’re really doing gods work educating us lol
Appreciate the kind feedback !
Looking at that top & bottom gear, would it be possible to for an aftermarket manufacturer to make a sprocket type gear and swap the belt out for a chain and eliminate the need for this wearable belt? Just looking at the video there appears to be adequate room. What are your thoughts after having everything apart and working on it?
There is room and I'm not certain it's even necessary. At most, an owner will likely go in there one time and no sense in spending a bunch of money on parts when the belt is so cheap (the labor is not, i get it). the other side of this, there has not been one failure to date that's been reported so I think the system is ok.
Thank you for the detailed breakdown. Great video.
Glad it was helpful! thank you!
Something to prepare for in my 2022.5 Sierra. @@DemonWorks
Great Video as Always. Thanks for Putting in the Work to Get Them Out There. Lots of Whiners and Naysayers and They’re on Every Forum I Follow…
Much appreciated!!!
The "I do Cars" CZcams channel has a teardown video on the 3.0, it is an interesting engine. The probable reality is the weak GM torque converter will require service at about the same time that the belt does, easy enough to do the belt at that point 😂
These are great trucks compared to what else is out there - everybody is having problems these days except for Toyota. I have 2 friends (ya it is only a sample of 2 but still) that have 3.0s and they have been great. They sure run well.
The torque converter isn't "weak", they were running the transmission fluid way too hot for the extra 1% fuel economy boost. 200F transmission fluid causes the friction material on the torque converter clutch to degrade prematurely.
By your logic, Ford put a wet belt on all their F-150 engines so that way they would get customers to pay to have the timing chain done "while they're in there" because in Ford's infinite wisdom, the oil pump belts are routed behind the timing chain. It actually makes the location of the Duramax oil pump belt look genius. Instead of tearing all the accessories, harmonic balancer, radiator fans, timing cover, and timing chains off to change a belt, all you have to do on the Duramax is slide the transmission back, remove a cover, and the belt is right there, no worries about valve timing or harmonic balancers.
@@hochhaul Agree. Ford's belt setup worse 😄
To be fair, the belt in "I Do Cars" 3.0 video looks fine at 146K miles. The Ford belts shown on the same channel not so much. I like the 3.0, it is an interesting engine, really like the latest generation with it's steel pistons.
actually toyota isnt great on trucks. the v6 twin turbo had waste gate defects (supposedly new supplier solved the problem)
Toyota is junk as well. I gave them two chances and and not going to waste another penny on anything Toyota.
Last thing I would ever buy is something that has oil pump driven by a belt.
All the F-150 engine options now use this kind of oil pump belt but they're even more work to change since it's on the front of the engine behind the timing chain.
Over 3k in labor alone, local dealership is $190/hr for "heavy mechanical" which this work would be. Yes these engines don't need the tune-ups that the old engines used to need every 9-12k miles. But everything is FAR more complicated and FAR more expensive.
Hey thanks for all your videos I have a couple ?s will the inter cooler and air intakes void warranty power train? Have you found exhaust yet for the 23 Lzo I’m having no luck. Mine has 80 miles with 6 inch lift with 22 inch fuel sledge rims on 35 inch falken atw3 and little system. What mods are worth it in your opinion as far as performance? I hope to hear from you!
In regards to warranty, honestly, your warranty is technically gone with that lift and 35" tires. Nonfactory sized tires is the potential red flag that a GM rep could go with... dependent on many factors but just throwing that out there. i cannot speak for any parts that will or will not have warranty implications.
Moving on from that, you won't typically see a gain in performance with any of the current mods available as they will do minor improvements. Thee charge air cooler will work as an air cooler to keep things in check when the temps climb. It's not going to add power until you reach a comparison point where the factory cooler is falling off on cooling and the PPE continues cooling.
I would add the PPE Zilla Carbon pipe and see how it feels. That has given me added throttle response and better feel midrange and light pedal driving. The Charge Air cooler is definitely a favorite of mine as well.
@@DemonWorks Interesting - why would a simple air intake pipe replacement help? What's it doing that the stock piped isn't doing?
Here’s the thing… if you do a belt replacement at 150k miles. Then re-install the transmission, and the 15,000 miles later your transmission starts to act up and have to rebuild it. So wouldn’t it be better to overhaul the transmission while you’re there. Or, best case your transmission takes a crap before 150k and then you do your oil pump belt. 🤔
that's a decision one can make when the time comes.
Really comes down to how likely the transmission is to need rebuilt. If maintained properly, I’d expect the transmission to last 250 - 300k.
Made of money people here? I drive my old trucks for 200,000 miles for less than this belt cost.
I have 3 friends that went out and bought the 3.0 duramax. none of them have had belt issues, and they love the mileage and drivability. My friends say “when it’s not in the shop it runs great.” With that said, I am curious. Do you consider these reliable? All 3 of the vehicles have been in the shop (sometimes for months), and these vehicles range from 2020-2023. If I bought new, I would expect my vehicle not to break down or get stuck in limp mode.
I do consider these reliable but they do have their share of issues, much like all of the other engines out there. We have to remember that 20 was the first year of everything being all new, then 21 we had the covid and worker issues, quality has not been at an all time high... Most are great, some have a list of issues, others have an issue here and there.
@@DemonWorks I feel most people like to criticize a kind of engine (duramax, powerstroke, cummins etc), and claim they are junk and/or break constantly. When in reality, the failures on most of these engines are emission related. Emission that the EPA (branch of our government), has federally mandated auto manufacturers have to equip on vehicles. I guess my point is, we shouldn’t blame the manufacturer. It’s the government’s fault. “Hey guys, we need you to cut pollution by X… oh, and do it right now.”
Our 22 Sierra 3.0 has been great. Average mid 20's mpg. No shop visits other than getting the park assist module and heated steering wheel installed from the chip shortage. We use it to pull out camper and the fiance commutes almost an hour ~3/4 highway. We wouldn't have bought a diesel if she commuted closer. Please don't buy one unless you're going to regularly drive on the highway where it can regen. That's why so many people complain about these trucks and have issues. Modern diesel emission systems cannot handle in-city, stop and go style driving. The owners manuals say so, and yet people still complain.
Just get a 350!
Duramaxes i feel are getting better. Some cummins are better than others. We kept a power stroke turbo in stock at a lincoln dealership need i say more. L8t is the best gas v8 gm has made in a long time.
Holy crap guys are doing this in 8 hrs easy You are so special
That's great ! Hopefully they are also paid their worth!
That belt will llast 200k. It was in perfect shape and the oil bath preserved it. Usually oil degrades rubber. Definitely a special rubber formula . But i wouldn't buy that Turd if i won the Lottery. Im 61 and owned 3 pre emission Cummins 5.9 trucks. Best engine ever put in a pick up. Zero issues and they were pampered. Hands down the only bulletproof true blue ckass A industrial engine.
I do like my presmog 7.3 but can't say a bad thing about the 5.9.
I see no issue with this. The trans the engine is connected to will never outlive that belt
I believe the new gen 4 Ford 5.0 has a new oil pump driven by a belt. It also now has cylinder deactivation.
I believe you are correct!
The 3.0L Powerstroke V6 they offered up until '21 also had a belt-driven pump.
Yes, that's true, but I belive you only need to take the oil pan down to change the belt.
Ford relies on the end user for engineering.
6.0
Getrig junk transmissions.
Body panels installed while no one working the shift was sober. 😂
Seen belt driven fuel pumps. What if the pump was external instead?
After I do cars did a teardown on a 3.0 Duramax it isn't the belt wear to worry about. It's the wear and tear on that knife and slot drive. His engine clearly had no belt issues at just shy of 150k. However, the drive to the pump itself from the pulley had tons of slop.
Just dumped a ford with a 1.0 ecoboost with the wet timing belt. Ford says they'll last 150k, they're breaking at 75k and ruining engines. $3,000 est to replace belt and remove the oil pan to clean up the debris from the belt flaking off. Given the consequences of the belt breaking I would take whatever number they say and cut it in half as a replacement interval. I bought a Subaru with timing chains and an engine I can work on.
Driven off the crankshaft,
Drives the oil pump,
In a constant oil bath,
Let’s put a belt in there.
You know, behind the rear cover, but in front of the transmission.
I thought my ford was bad…….
The dealer shop rate in my area is $230 per hour. Adding our 9% sales tax will put this bill at $4k!
Should the trans be serviced at that same time. Just got my 2023 2 weeks ago and didnt get an owners manual. Not sure on service intervals at this point
I have all of your service intervals and part numbers right here in this article: www.duramaxnews.com/post/maintenanceschedule
If you think about it, at 200K for all the hassle I might change chains, gears, belts, trans and convertor. Sucks on money but if you like the car, might be the way to go.
I would have designed engine with a Power Take Off Shaft, and driven as many accessories as possible off of it, oil pump included.
makes so much sense ...change everything like an alternator of p s pump
I’ve installed many timing belts in the past and they are definitely good ones and bad ones so let’s hope there’s good quality control on this oil driven belt buyer beware.
Unfortunately people are so fixated on price they will seek out the cheapest Amazon parts they can find and cry when it fails prematurely. I see it all the time with all kinds of repairs.
I saw a dozen at the dealership i used to work at
@@D3AThCAl2DS I've seen dozens of F-150's with disintegrated oil pump belts. Turns out all the gasoline that ends up in the engine oil is really really hard on rubber belts down in the crankcase. Just love that Ford started using these rubber belts AND putting them on the front of the engine, behind the timing chain. These things are coming apart at 100k miles, so you're spending hours tearing everything off the front of the engine including the timing chain itself to change it. All the debris that come off of the belt due to gasoline breaking it down end up in the oil pan, which is a plastic pan with the oil pickup screen molded into the bottom of it, so if the belt doesn't break, the screen is clogged up with oil pump belt and causing a drop in oil pressure. Real great for the valvetrain that doesn't tolerate any reduction in oil pressure.
Always buy name brand timing belts. I learned the hard way.
How long have they been doing this?
Are there any kits to change the belt to a chain?
none
DemonWorks, seems like you’re very knowledgeable in this area. I’m in the market to buy an Suburban or Yukon XL. We need the extra space. What are your thoughts on the diesel DURAMAX 3.0 turbocharge or 6.2L V8? I am leaning towards the diesel only because of the consumptions. Any thoughts?
This is my 4th 3.0 Duramax and I love them. They are great engines that work really well and are efficient. There are some bad ones out there as well, so nothing is perfect. The maintenance cost is a little higher than the gas but the fuel efficiency offsets that. That being said, i love the 6.2 as well, it's so simplistic and works very well! yes, they can have lifter issues and there is a span of the 6.2's with engine problems, but if you don't get one of those bad ones, they are phenomenal.
Buy the 6.6 Duramax diesel. GM AFM engines and this diesel are pathetic!
@@jimandersen3003 Funny, I know so many guys at work with 2014+ trucks with AFM that have never had a lifter problem. The only one that had a lifter problem was a guy with a 2011 that would change the oil every 8000 to 10,000 miles. One of the guys has a 2015 Silverado 5.3 with 200k, all the original lifters working fine, never turned off AFM. Another has 180k. Amazing the difference changing your oil before 5000 miles can do for a guy! It's almost as though the old timers that changed their oil every 2500 to 3000 miles were on to something...
@@hochhaul My buddys 2021 blew up at 8k miles thanks to AFM. When he took it to the dealer they had a dozen new trucks dead from AFM ahead of his and no parts during the pandemic. Took months to get it fixed. Great engines LOL. You want reliable now, buy the 2.7 4 banger.
not worried about the cost at all. Knew about it when i bought my 2022 with the 3L duramax. If you have to put a few thousand dollars into a truck with 200 thousand miles on it,so what, at 200k miles a lot of things could need replaceing. I am very pleased with my truck. Best mileage truck i have ever owned, pulled my 3500 pound trailer the other day and still got 23mpg.
But what happens when the belt shreds and stops up your oil pump? Then you have to buy a whole new engine and these new diesel engines are not close to being cheap. Even in a few years these engines will still be expensive as hell.
@@jtmartin8445 so far, I’ve never even heard of a 3.0 belt failure. After the first year. Have not even had a 3.0 having any problems. Outside people putting DEF fluid in their diesel. But have had to replaced lots of GM V-8’s and cannot count the V6 eco-boost failures.
Love my 2020 as well. Had a leaking main seal at around 12k that was covered under warranty. While I would like it to be 100% trouble free, I don't really expect that from any vehicle or brand.
@@jtmartin8445 I suppose that would be a very bad day, but so far these engines have been rather reliable from what I have seen. No engine is perfect and none are expected to last a lifetime, but if cared for fairly well, I suspect they will provide a very satisfactory lifespan.
@@toddkovalcik332 Almost every early 2000s engine will last a million miles IF maintained properly. That’s a million miles without timing chains or it being pulled apart for any reason what so ever. These new trucks are scrap metal when compared to early 2000s trucks. Why would anyone buy one if your going to have to change out that ignorant ass belt every 150-200k and hope and pray the belt doesn’t degrade before it’s time to change it out. New trucks are a joke. Look at the new duramax engines they’re junk. The injection systems on them are complete garbage. Even the new power strokes have an injection system made by the same manufacturer that makes the injection system in the duramax. The problem is they’ve completely outsourced research and development to third party companies who end up creating a horrible product and then us customers pay the price for their half ass designed shit. Like afm or dfm in new gm gasoline engines. That’s one example. Gm didn’t design those lifters. Melling designed those lifters for gm.
Been looking for a high mileage review of the LM2!!! Should do a follow up on this 100k+ mile truck
I've had people tell me do not even consider getting the LM2, lemon law has been sighted and all the issues that keep getting beat like a dead horse... hard to get an honest first hand opinion from a non GM mechanic on this motor.. I want to love this thing but been getting scared away
@@gotaPhDyoumadbro I am a GM tech, I see these things come in with issues and as guy on youtube, I see many more success stories from fellow owners. This particular truck is one that is owned by a company that has a fleet of them. They are all up in the same mileage area and all have not had any kind of major issues.
@@DemonWorks I guess what is more prevalent from your view point comparing the 5.3L vs 3.0L (lm2) needing repairs... and major repairs at that... really been going back & forth on the two and really would love to get some more guidance.
A little back story on use is this will be a work/personal truck that I have to buy myself (company only gives me a small monthly vehicle allowance to supplement the cost)... for work I mostly will be driving highway out to farms & associated facilities, I won't usually have any sort of load on the truck, maybe the occasional pallet of parts is possible in rare circumstances but mostly drives up to 6-8hrs away from home. But for personal life theres a boat trailer and a smaller camping trailer (typical tandem axle) or a in-bed camper would be what it'll see for weekends some but usually it's longer trips to camping sites with gear in the bed all over the PNW so MPG is what im trying to get.
My aim is to get a 2020-2021 certified pre-owned Silverado/Sierra extended cab with the 79" bed, IF I can get them to offer a extended warranty.
Any more input would be greatly appreciated.
You mention the timing chains are showing issues. Are you seeing chain stretch, sprocket wear, or tensioners getting chewed up. Call me in the minority these worried me more than the oil pump belt ever did.
As always appreciate you posting all this. Glad there are those who do and those who put lots of miles on their trucks to show in advance of any issues.
I appreciate the kind words! I have not personally seen timing chain issues but some are beginning to surface on the internet, so I am watching for those. best prevention of timing chain issues is fresh and clean oil, which I personally try to make sure my engine has.
@@DemonWorks good to hear. I’m on a 4000mi change interval myself. Next one I’ll send sample to Blackstone for analysis
Ford used a wet belt on the fiesta motor for a timing belt. The belt will come apart and clog up the oil sump resulting in engine failure. The redesigned 5.0 uses a oil pump driven belt. Not using Ford approved motor oil results in premature failure of the kevlar belt.At this point use a chain or crank driven oil pump. Anything other than this mess. Good vid.
I keep seeing comments in here about clogging and was unsure where those claims were coming from. I knew it was from a different vehcile but now i know, the fiesta. Appreciate the comment and the info about the fiesta and the 5.0!
Wet belts are absolute garbage. The wrong oil or not sticking to strict oil change intervals will cause the belt to disintegrate and you need to replae tlbefore the engine blows up.
There is no reason on planet earth why they could not have just made a standard dry! timing belt.
A belt running in oil is a disaster waiting to happen. That is a money maker for G.M.
Yeah, GM is raking in the money on a 200,000 mile service !
Man where do you live at? 175 a hour is a lot but as a tech myself my area our average rate is around 68-75 a hour. Not many shops around either want to pay us a fair rate which is why I quit doing it.
Honda has used these oil soaked belts for there lawn mower camshaft drives for a very long time. I just figured the valve spring tension and such was so low that there was not much tension on the belt. its very small and apparently works fine. the cam on the one i had was plactic also.
When was the last time a Honda lawnmower had the equivalent of 150k miles? Plus, a lawn mower engine doesn’t cost $12k to replace if the belt breaks and the lawn mower didn’t cost $65,000 to start with.
I don't drive a lawnmower.
Most book time is shorter than actual time needed. They are derived from warranty times that are created by the manufacturers and the manufacturers pay the warranty claims. It's like writing your own paycheck. Also, many people think they actually perform the repair work to determine how much time they will pay which is not true. I believe it is based on factory assembly time with no credit for corrosion or clean up and possibly how many dollars are dialed into the product price for warranty repairs. Oh yes! You actually pay for the warranty when you buy the product!
Try doing the job in your yard. $2000 is absurd for such a bad design flaw.
@@jimandersen3003 Design flaw? You're a clown dude.
What's gonna kill most of those 3.0L Duramax it's a lack of oil changes and using the proper weight and kind.
That goes for any modern vehicle in recent years with direct injection and or turbos. What galls me is how these companies are calling for extended oil changes. You look at how black and soupy the oil comes out of these cars compared to what you’ve seen for the past decades it should tell you something. For me it’s 5000. And I don’t care what any manufacturer or especially government dictates , oil is cheap and easy.
When I saw the tear down of a turbo for one like my 2.7 and they showed that tiny little screen on each turbo, I couldn’t believe it. As the presenter said, “if you do anything to any of these turbos, you better change that screen, regardless of mileage “ and I believe him. Those things really are tiny and have very little surface area to plug up .
Virtually all vehicles today. Have to be handled with kid gloves in the oil department unless you want to destroy them very prematurely.
do they have an estamated idle hours it should be replace? I idle a lot
how much are you idling? we had a 6.6 Duramax blow turbo boot at work because of a backed up diesel particulate filter. it has 30k on it. crew was basically idling the truck from noon to 5 every day to keep cool of when temps were +95f
If that belt breaks and the oil light comes on and you shut the engine off Pretty quick would the motor be bad or could you replace the belt?
too many possibilities to really say. I will say, there has not been one reported physical failure of the belt.
i’m curious if any aftermarket is working on putting a chain in its place or some other fix rather than changing belt more than once. seems like it would be worth the investment. i know i would pay to do it once and never do it again if possible. who wants to spend $3000 on a truck with 300,000 miles on it and let’s say 10-15 years old to put 2nd belt on!
I hear ya, but I do not see the value. If you have to go in there at 200k, the chances of one needing to go back in at 400k is so minimal. I'm sure some of these engines will last 400k but not all. There really is nothing wrong with this belt design, in my opinion. Not one failure reported. We are starting to see timing chain issues show up, though.
@@DemonWorks your right i’m sure most won’t try and keep them on the road that long. i commute so i am hoping to go upwards of 500k but time and costs will dictate that. i will definitely push my 2020 to 200k before changing and may push further. if it fails i don’t see it being catastrophic, what is your opinion on that? what happens if it breaks or cogs start to slip?
Driving an oil pump from an oil soaked belt seems like the idiotic engineering decision of the decade.
When you remove the gear from the oil pump, there is a little shaft that goes through the block that has little blinds or keyways to connect to the actual oil pump inside the block. It has two very bad points at those little couplers scope it out see what you think
What makes you say that?
@@DemonWorks because I have to run apart, and have seen the wear myself between both couplers on both ends water pump to shaft at the coupler
Can you do a video or say, based on mileage when you should do all the services like, front differential, transfer case, transmission, rear differential
Absolutely! I detailed everything here: www.duramaxnews.com/post/maintenanceschedule
@@DemonWorks thank you. This also may be a dumb question but I have the LM2. I’m looking to upgrade to the PPE transmission pan but the website doesn’t really tell you how much oil to buy when you are replacing the pan and filter, doing a fuel transmission service. How much oil do I need to buy?
@@ericjenkins3424 I would get 12.
Check out this video : 10L80 Transmission upgraded with PPE Deep pan for the 3.0 Duramax
czcams.com/video/crbr-Gtk5wk/video.html
Labor costs are seriously $175 per hour now? I've been DIYing everything for over 20 years and had no idea it had reached anything near that expensive...
Many are the same way, perhaps my channel can give you some guidance on a 3.0 duramax if you have to work on it yourself.
That why I do all my own work it is just getting ridiculously overexpensive
Our dealer shop rate is $199.99 per hr. Even the indy shops here are $150.
@@scrappy7571 $200 per hour which is shop rate right and you're making what $20 maybe $30 per hr and you wonder why inflation has gotten so far out of hand
About $110 here in central Cal.
Maybe this is why gm can't sell the 3.0s in my area. They have bigger discounts on them then trucks with the 5.3
Seeing discounts on everything right now!
The 3.0 is very sought after. The problem was it was at the higher price point and trim levels. Now they are finally at the 5.3 prices.
Thanks
Your'e welcome !
Belt looked good, should be good for another 100K
Whoever in GM let this be designed needs fired.What a stupid idea why rear gear train that in stead of in front of engine.Mary Bara needs gone.Oh yeah and ju nk lifters in their Silverados way to screw up a trust in a brand good work.You saved the stockholders 5 cents.
I don't think you have seen the front of a 3.0 duramax? there's no room. for the gas engines, same lifters since 2007 (well, "redesigns"), I don't think gm cares about the lifters much.
@DemonWorks extend the truck front fenders and frame 1 ft .Just like 2500 hd extend it make working on back end way easier.
You sound like a mechanic that has to fix this stuff!
A belt driven oil pump internally, is just asinine....
WOW!
Why can't they place the pump sunken in and driven straight off the crankshaft? It looks to be a 1:1 drive ratio or use a gear train. I believe a lot of 4 cylinder have the oil pump right behind the timing belt crank pulley.
Most engines do with the timing components in the front of the engine as well. Pathetic design. DO NOT BUY!!
Someone needs to come out with a kit to convert the belt drive to a chain. Then again there’s a lot of engine out there running timing belts for years, & having a 75k interval. Sucks it’s at the back of the engine, but tbh if I’m optioning a Dmax I’m getting the 2500 that’s almost the same length as a 1500. I’ll just go for the L5P & not worry abt it.
After watching a teardown of an LM2 that was destroyed from running out of oil and seeing that the oil belt was still really good condition I think I'm going to wait until 200k even though my 2020 says to do it at 150k
Yeah dont cry when it snaps
@@mplewp the part number is the same from the lm2 to the replacement. Plus they test them to exceed the maintenance interval. Plus i have disabled auto stop permanently and only use amsoil. If it snaps i would be pretty sad but i think my odds are good
Wonder if it’s possible for someone to come up with a chain to replace this belt?
I imagine if anyone does this maintenance item on their truck, they won't be doing it again anyway.
Luckly I drive a company truck all week. My LZ0 averages about 3000 miles a year. We only use it for travel & comfort for long trips. With that being said, I won't even own the truck by the time this maintenance comes around.
the gm diesel owner will be servicing this while changing the transmission
Closer to the truth than many think.
Meanwhile over in 5.9L land everything is gear driven. The truck will fall apart around the engine, twice before it needs major internal work.
Belt driven oil should be an automatic no for anyone buying a Diesel. What is even more strange is these small displacement Diesels don't make much sense.
You have to buy DPF and deal with the DPF system, pay about $1 more per gallon since it's diesel and worry about when the emissions system will take a $6k dump. All for a engine that makes.. 450 ft.lbs. A 12v Cummins Dodge or a 7.3L PSD will make that torque or more, cost way less and be way more reliable, and get manual transmission options as well!
I always enjoy it when you guys come in to comment.
@@DemonWorks Why thank you, but the point stands :)
Great info. Kinda stupid on GM part for putting a go cart belt on a HD diesel engine.
Glad I don't own one!! Great video BTW!
Thanks!
I now know I will never own one of these. Absolutely ridiculous engineering.
9.3-15 hours for a regular maintenance item? To replace a belt? That’s ridiculous!
So, any money you save in fuel mileage you loose four times that in maintenance costs. 🤦🤦🤦 WTF?
how often do you hit 200,000 miles on a vehicle? I also did the math before, and the fuel savings is there. With the Diesel, we also do not have spark plug changes every 100k nor valve carbon buildup to deal with. Then the other question is, how often do transmissions make it 200k miles? if the trans needs a repair, bam, getting that belt taken care of for minimal $$$ ...
@@DemonWorks I have over 650k on my 12v cummins Dodge, 356k on my 93 grand cherokee, 472k on my volvo wagon and 192k on my classic 914.
So i guess it depends on perspective, I am not the average customer because I maintain my older, far superior cars that are not like the modern trash they sell today with over inflated price tags. Some of the older cars have had substantial maintenance, none of which though, came even close to the cost of upgrading to newer models.
I also have self worth which doesn't give me the desire to purchase brand new cars so I can have an ego boost. I have no innate need to "keep up with the jones's" or "look at me and see what I can afford" syndrome...
I also have no debt... so there is that.
@@guyforlogos How many transmissions have you gone through on your Cummins? I'm on my original engine and transmission on my 6.6 Duramax.
@@GoogleDoesEvil Zero, mines a manual, done 2 clutch replacements
@@guyforlogos Ah, yeah that'll do it. Great choice!
Thanks, now at least I have a reasonable ball park number to work with.
That was the goal of this, glad it worked out that way for you!
How many hours does it really take? I plan on doing mine myself.
Everyone is different.
From what I am gathering the LM2 service interval is now at 200K as well and my gut tells me it may go up again. Personally I think less shop time involved to drop the tranny and swap this vs tearing up the entire front of the engine to change something there.
exactly.... less time to drop the tranny... than tearing off the front of the motor and possibly removing the front end of the truck....
How about put a drive in that lasts the life of the engine. Wow what a novel idea😮
@@holmes1956O life of an engine is subjective.. which is based on the end user maintaining said engine. One person might get 200k miles. Another person might get 400k. So what exactly does that mean life of the engine? Dude stop. It is a 200k mile belt. Let me repeat that. 200k. In a diesel in a half ton daily driving truck. This is not an 18 wheeler. You guys need to stop acting like clowns.
@@traviscrown9189 wow throw away travis. My current pick-up is a 2003 chevy with 450k on it. My previous was a 1996 had almost 900k on it when I sold it before that again all chevy 1975 I owned that truck for 20yrs and sold it to guy who bought it for a winter vehicle. Now you may be a trade it every 3 yrs guy good for you some of us maintain and keep our vehicles for a while longer. You need to look closer at the oil pump in this engine. The belt isnt the only failure point on it. The driveshaft foe the pump is a failure point as well. I build things for people and when I build something I build with the intention that it will be in service indefinitely and my intention is that it will be maintenance free. I expect nothing less than perfection from something I am spending 70plus k for. If you like visiting the service dept cool. Then I guess todays "engineers" are your huckleberry
Redickulous
GM stupidity once again. This should've been a chain or gear driven pump 🤡
How is it so time consuming to pull a rwd transmission? Every rwd vehicle I’ve owned from Mustang to Explorer to Porsche I pulled the transmission for clutch service, leaking rear main seal or upgrading the flyheeel in a matter of hours. In my driveway. How is this truck so complicated all you do is drop the exhaust, pop a u joint off for the driveshaft and disconnect the starter…right? After that it should just be a dozen bolts and some dowel pins. Maybe an electrical connector here and there. 13 hours? Holy cow.
As a life long GM fan I am embarrassed that some fool at GM ever uttered the words "oil pump belt". Even an electric oil pump (externally mounted) would have been better.