Here I am thinking oh it costs alot? thinking about everything you've said oh must be like $1000 for a player a bit more for a server because it has a hdd etc but $12,000 for a server and player idk what everyone is smoking but ill keep using discs there's premium and then theres taking people for a ride and this goes into snake oil territory absolutely insane.
Excellent points and thorough thought process. I echo a ton of your experience and points of view in my own history with home theater and media and my progression through physical media, streaming, and K. One feedback, you are kind of conflating ownership concepts between Apple, Netflix, and K. Apple and K are parallel. Neither Apple nor K should remove movies from your purchased library even if they lose the rights to sell that content to new customers. That's not 100% as I have had it happen on both platforms, but it's extremely extremely rare. iTunes is a purchase just like K is a purchase. Netflix is of course different.
I have 3 Plex servers and have never had any issues you mention playing any content. The Shield I have works seamlessly pulling from a movie and media library from a home server. I just cannot see the value vs PLEX.
A lot of people don’t. A lot of people do, including me. The TrueHD/Shield problem is well-documented. It also boiled down to not storing discs, not hassling with ripping discs, and not having to manage the server in terms of tech support. If it’s what you want to do, that’s fantastic, you just saved some cash. I have no desire to spend my time managing the server anymore. I place a high value on the quality of discs with earlier release dates and the convenience of streaming. All the upkeep of PLEX negates that convenience IMO.
@@av_nirvana I am all for convenience but I don't understand the need to rip your physical media. Just use your physical media when you want to watch it. I do have a NAS solution for my digital content but it's hassle free. And sorry to say but this Kaleidescape solution in principal is the same as mine except it costs far too much and barely has minor benefits. Your arguments to justify your purchase are negligable and not even true. So far my nas solution works locally and remotely. I don't need to do anything. I technically don't even have to update the OS on the Nas because I let third part players handle the transcoding and everything. Kodi and VLC play everything you throw at them. BTW your reaction to one of the commenters is quite condenscending. You act like it's so hard to fulfill your wish on a low budget. He is basically saying that it's not. I would rather spend money on purchasing physical media than waste money on digital sources that one day will disappear. Or the license for your content will be revoked and thus lose your content.
Home assistant is great for automation with kscape. There is a component that lets you base automations on all the Movie metadata. I’m automating my lights and lens memory for my projector. Works great.
This seems like the ultimate solution in terms of quality and convenience, but it still relies on a company to continue its existence for all of this to keep working. If this company goes out of business, then how do you get this equipment serviced or replaced? There's also the issue of cost. Not just the cost of the service and equipment but the cost of the movies on it. $24.99 for Citizen Kane or $7.95 to rent seems pretty pricey. Discs may be low tech, but they do not rely on a company to continue its existence to keep using them and they are gonna be a bit cheaper to buy most of the time. Truth be told, we need to start renting discs for $1 USD per title at a video store. That would be cheap and my preferred method. This method might be the most premium but I want a much cheaper solution.
Kaleidescape has already been through the struggle phase and relaunched the company with a store and agreements with the studios. Its popularity continues to grow and the user base is multiplying. That said, any company could go out of business at any time. Every purchase has that risk. It’s not much different than investing in a high-end disc player only to have discs become unavailable. There are weekly sales in the store that drop titles as low as $9.99 to purchase. I’d love a lower rental cost, but it’s a simple solution to create a wish list of things you want to watch, and whenever something in your wish list goes on sale you receive an email notification as well as in-app. Like with everything, it’s your decision. For many of us, the benefits far outweigh the negatives. The quality, the convenience, not to mention that Kaleidescape is receiving titles early, and often in higher quality than ever available on disc. Many new titles are UHD HDR on Kaleidescape but will only receive a 1080p Blu-ray release. Lots of info, but that just means more data to base your decision on. I, for one, have not regretted my purchase one bit.
Nothing beats physical discs! I have around 2000 movies on 4K not available on crappy streaming services, so how in hell can watch those discs on that thing?
And Kaleidescape has currently around 1000 titles in 4K that are only in HD on physical media. No format has everything. What are you going to play your discs on when they stop making players? Or when the discs eventually rot?
@@av_nirvana Clearly you are not in Boutique Labels? Arrow, Vinegar Syndrome, Criterion, Eureka, Scream Factory etc... all those have tons of the great obscure movies in the best possible Picture Quality not available on streaming. So yes Kaleidoscope can be good but we collectors still want play the discs from those boutique labels.
Owning a Kaleidescape doesn’t make your disc player stop working, but owning a disc player doesn’t allow you to playback the 4K titles exclusive to Kaleidescape. Believe it or not, the two can coexist. I have a handful of discs from those studios, and then I have this unique and rare device called an AV Processor that allows me to press a button and playback the few discs I had to have discs that aren’t available on Kaleidescape. Pretty wild, I know.
Great review. I have worked on numerous Kaleidescape systems. They are wonderful, but expensive. I would more likely jump on Kaleidescape if they allowed me to sync it with Ultraviolet and my physical library. I agree HTPC's are a niche product with many glitches. I did not know Plex relied on the internet for playback. That is a big hole in their design. I would have gone that route if it took less time and money. My library is close to 1000 discs. I use a combination of VUDU and physical media.
K used to sync with Ultraviolet but when UV gave way to Movies Anywhere the relationship ended. It’s def pricey but so simple to use and maintain. A luxury purchase for sure.
@@av_nirvana I looked at the movie selection on K-scape versus what I watch. Many of the films I have on my list with 3d-blurayrental are not available along with many of the foreign films I own.
The catalog still has room to grow, but the flip side of that is the content you can get on Kaleidescape early, or in higher quality than anywhere else. Pink Floyd's Delicate Sound of Thunder is only available in UHD on Kaliedescape - disc release is only 1080p. And Maverick just came out on disc a couple weeks ago vs September on Kaleidescape. I still run my PLEX server for things that aren't available on Kaleidescape, and as a DVR, but I haven't been buying any new content besides what's available on Kaleidescape, unless it's something that will obviously never make it onto Kaleidescape.
Don’t forget that you can rip with DvdFab and use a media player like Zappiti. I own over 1200 disc in my collection. My Zappiti player plays everything. Who wants to repurchase their collection again. I also keep clone copies of my hard drives in case something happens. I’m thousands of dollars ahead of the game. There’s no guarantee that Kaleidescape will stay in business or keep the license of your movie that you purchased.
I'm sorry but at $8k for the Kaleidescape equipment I'd rather buy the discs. UHD Blu-ray players are now cheap and I can assure you you won't notice the difference between Kaleidesape/UHD Blu-ray disc.
That’s absolutely your choice, and physical media is a great option…while it’s still available. There are just so many other factors to consider in this purchase, like storing physical media - I don’t have a place for it. Convenience - it’s as easy as streaming but with full disc quality. That’s just two reasons. There are more, but nobody is bashing your decision to continue buying discs.
Dealers often offer discounts if you engage with someone local. There are also occasional bundle discounts. Just saw this notice come across yesterday: Between now and June 30, 2023: Strato C + 6TB Terra $7990 ($1000 savings); Strato C + 22TB Terra $12,990 ($2000 savings). The Strato C + 6TB Terra bundle listed is the most basic current setup.
@@garystinten9339 I guise even if it was available it would cost an arm and a leg to get . Would be nice if another company offered a similar service and a lot cheaper, maybe apple will offer higher bitrate movie's 😮😂👍
Five-year warranty. Kaleidescape can replace the drives. Purchasing a new server is 50% off with an out of warranty failure. And if you have to replace a drive on Kaleidescape, you just click "Download" or you can even have them pre-load your content onto the new drive before they ship it to you, vs having to re-rip everything on a DIY alternative. Time = Money.
1. What about subtitles? Living in Sweden, I quite often encounter a situation where the UHD blu-ray does not have Swedish subtitles, even though the standard blu-ray does. This is quite annoying and wish there was a way to copy and use the blu-ray subtitles for the UHD blu-ray playback. Ex machina is such a title, can you see if it has Swedish subtitles in the UHD version? 2. What about if the company goes bankrupt, what will happen to your movies in terms of access and playback?
1. That’s a great question. I rarely use them, so I had to look. Ex Machina has only English on UHD and English + Spanish on HD. I know many titles have more variety than this example, but you might be disappointed. 2. If the company goes bankrupt, what’s on your server is and always will be yours to keep and watch. Just like our recent internet outage. The document that verifies ownership is located locally on your server and is updated with each purchase/rental, but not at playback (at least that’s how I understand it).
@@av_nirvana Thanks a lot. That's a shame. It would be a real opportunity for them to offer a solution to this issue as it affects a lot of titles in a lot of different countries. Even blockbusters like all of the Avengers movies lack Swedish subtitles on UHD. 2. Ok, good to know. I still wonder about playback though. Are there actual files being downloaded that you can playback with other programs, or do you need their proprietary software?
Also, they do have a way to sideload alternate movie artwork if you prefer, so there is at least a possibility that subtitles could be downloaded from the internet sources and then sideloaded to the K-scape. Would need to be a feature request tho.
Great review! love the honesty!, my question is what happens if this company would go out of business and most of your media in on cloud since the storage hardrives are super price!
A: I don’t see them going out of business, as they’ve already been through the legal battles that put Zappiti out of business and they have reached agreements with the studios to provide content that is not in a gray area (like ripping physical media) B: if they do go out of business I don’t see it being an overnight announcement and there will be time to purchase additional storage if needed. This would also be an opportunity to make a deal with Movies Anywhere to provide owners access to their content across other platforms. C: I don’t spend my time concerned with whataboutisms. I’ll deal with it IF and when it happens. D: what if they stop selling disc players and you can’t replace a dead player to view your physical media? E: what if all those optical discs you’ve purchased suffer from laser rot a la LaserDisc? Any product can suffer from doomsday scenarios. I choose to not waste my days worrying.
I liked the review, but the elephant in the room is cost, cost, cost... the hardware cost is substantial, adding your own movies to the content isn't free, and if you add a movie, you need to rebuild... Your example is more like hiring a driver to take you everywhere, sure it removes the need to drive, but it also is very expensive. Don't get me wrong, Kaleidoscope is a great product, and fills a need for people with high-end home theaters, but it's hard to ask people to pay more for a media server then they paid for their TV. In the past, people who purchased this product were the same ones buying a $25,000 Sony front projector and a high end screen.
It’s no secret that Kaleidescape is a luxury product but if you can fit it into the budget it really is a wonderful, easy to use, high quality way to watch movies with many exclusive features that provide added value.
I have a question with that screen ratio. If I have a 2.35:1 screen can I adjust all the movies to that screen ratio and avoid the black bars on the side with typical 16:9 content?
Other interfaces, like PLEX, don’t accommodate for 2.4:1 content with menus, subtitles and onscreen controls, and if you’re zoomed to fill a scope screen, they’re projected above and below. That setting tells the Kaleidescape where to put that content. It can also scale 16x9 to fit the vertical resolution of scope content, which means you can leave your projector set to scope all the time. And finally, it can adjust the signal output for those who use an anamorphic lens to display scope content.
Ugh....I felt a pit in my stomach when I first started this video. I've been justifying NOT buying a K for months now. You just literally described me (frugal, but want top quality, bought the AVM60 lightly used). I've halfway attempted the Plex/RIP solution, and it's proven to be cumbersome. I see the writing on the wall, and you've made too much sense here it's like you made this video series for me specifically. I wanted to believe that only financially unsound people buy these things. Sigh, I can feel my wallet getting lighter. Great job on the series, very well done.
Thanks Jeff. It's definitely not affordable. There's really no way to actually justify the cost - it just doesn't add up. But it is the best solution out there for disc quality without discs. If that is what you're after, there's no better option available today, if you have the budget. PLEX is great if you have room to store the discs after ripping, and you have the time and know-how to manage the server. I still have my PLEX as a DVR and as catalog storage, but I haven't been adding any new disc rips. One bonus that's becoming more evident is the early release dates. If you want disc-quality Top Gun Maverick, there's the Kaleidescape or there's wait until November. K releases most titles the same day as iTunes and Movies Anywhere, etc., which is always before the disc. Sometimes a couple weeks, sometimes months. Having skipped Maverick in the theater, having the head start with Kaleidescape was pretty nice.
@@av_nirvana That's almost precisely what got this whole Kaleidescape research started again. I had put the issue "to bed" months ago. I withheld the temptation to watch Top Gun in the theater and preordered the UHD4k from Amazon months ago. It's just hard to wrap my head around that I'm spending more on just the media server than I did the projector itself (NX5). However, with a JVC NX5 and Triad Gold/Bronze speakers, it does seem like I'm trying to get by with the cheap gas in my high performance car. Thanks again for the videos. Kaleidescape better be paying you some royalties. :)
Have you talked to your dealer about getting an Alto system to catalog your physical discs, allowing for a cheaper upgrade path for movies you already own.
I've considered it, but I don't know if I'll bother. I have them boxed up and accessible via the PLEX server already. It's a thought, but I don't think I'm going to bother with it.
@@av_nirvana It's definitely something you should consider. It's not difficult process, and within a day you can catalog hundreds of titles. Often, the cost to purchase a digital copy of cataloged discs runs about $5 a title, and in some cases you can go from a DVD quality copy to a 4K HDR copy for under $10. You're dealer's local K sales rep can help with the process. As a Kaleidescape dealer myself, and a strong advocate for the product, your video series is something I'll direct my clients to. Great work.
Great 3 part series about Kaleidescape. I've been a long time Plex user but I find that Kaleidescape has some advantages. Do you know if most Kaleidescape dealers charge at or around MSRP or does it help to shop around for dealers?
I don’t know what the split would be but there are dealers who will discount them, but that’s not as likely when you’re just calling around looking for one item. Many dealers will, however, reward loyalty with a discount here and there.
I did try Kodi for awhile. I tried PLEX, Kodi, Emby, and Zidoo. There were advantages and disadvantages of all, but I ended up preferring the PLEX interface above the others, though it wasn't perfect. One other thing I didn't mention in this video is that I have a 2.4:1 aspect ratio screen, and none of the other solutions allow you to move all on-screen elements (navigation, info, subtitles, etc.) to force them within the 2.4 space. This i a huge advantage for those of us with cinemascope screens, or even folks who use masking systems when they're playing 2.4 content.
And there’s nothing wrong with that. Kaleidescape is for those who don’t want to store discs and enjoy the convenience of streaming/digital libraries, but don’t want to give up the quality of disc.
Scarecrow Video in Seattle is a fantastic rental store, but it’s a half hour away, and Redbox doesn’t have enough 4K options, nor does Netflix. I was using GameFly, which was decent, but again, slow mail, and I tend to choose on the day we watch, too.
Don’t forget that you can rip with DvdFab and use a media player like Zappiti. I own over 1200 disc in my collection. My Zappiti player plays everything. Who wants to repurchase their collection again. There’s no guarantee that Kaleidescape will still be in business years from now. Will they lose the license to the movie that you purchased from them???
The answer to your question is no, whatever is downloaded is downloaded and owners have access to view without contacting a server for permission. And there is also no guarantees that DVDFAB, MakeMKV, PLEX, Kodi, Zappiti, Zidoo and all the other DIY solutions won’t be shut down by the industry. Kaleidescape has legally binding agreements with the studios, while the DIY solutions are straddling a fence in legal gray area.
@@av_nirvana The problem with Kaleidescape, in my humble opinion, is that its future is highly dependent on the relationship between the owners and movie studios. If key owners are accused of anything in their real life, it could lead to studios immediately severing ties with the company and taking back what K-Scape customers have already purchased. It's a good product but its future is not guaranteed if we're being honest.
Quite frankly, your response could apply to any system; but the DIY solutions based on ripping physical media are at the greatest risk of being shut down.
Kaleidescape is the only legit legal licensed system. PLEX is in grey area, but the opinion is if you have the physical media on the property with your server, and they’re merely backups, you’re in decent legal standing. Never been tested though. Kaleidescape is not ripping media to a drive.
Kaleidescape is much to expensive for me. I use Zapitti, it is much cheaper and I rip the Blu Rays to a harddisk. I buy or borrow Blu Rays which I then rip. It is probably not as sophisticated as Kaleidescape but much cheaper and I have 1:1 copies of Blu Ray , 4k Blu Rays and 3D Blu Rays on my own harddrives. so no chance of my movies disappearing because Kaleidescape or the film company removed them. And I have really never had a spec of dust cause my rip to fail.
Half of this is equivalent to arguing benefits for purchasing content on iTunes…. Almost everything here Plex can do better with low maintenance. The main issue is just money versus learning how to one time setup a good Plex system. Even for the restoration issue mentioned, cloud backups with things like Backblaze is a must. KScapes biggest bonuses are in aspect ratio stuff and niche things. And Plex easily works offline when their services are down when setup correctly…
iTunes does not offer lossless audio. Like I stated, when you spend as much as some of us spend to build up our audio and video systems, we want to have the highest quality content. Kaleidescape is the highest quality content with the convenience and hassle-free experience of an iTunes account.
@@av_nirvana The iTunes comparison is mainly around the "auto updating purchased video quality" portion. Just as a note to this, I've invested a significant amount of time and money into my systems. I'm fairly certain my Home Theater itself is north of $50k atm from equipment purchased and put together over time. Kaleidoscope does have its value propositions, but I'm still in disagreement that this video points out any of those propositions. Frankly, this video concludes with if you want a hassle free experience and don't care about money IMO without justifying the cost.
I have a JVC X790R which has no tone mapping. Some HDR looks great; some looks terrible. I’ve since added a Lumagen to handle Dynamic Tone Mapping and it’s incredible, I wish I’d added it sooner.
@@av_nirvana Thanks for letting me know. I have the JVC X950R in my vacation home's theater which recently upgrade to my older Sony Ruby projector. I guess even my new projector is now obsolete. I am glad that the lumagen can give it some new life. If you had to do it over, you would have waited to buy a JVC projector that uses a laser and tone mapping? Thanks
I’ve had this projector for 5 years now and I’m glad I’ve had it. I just wish I’d bought the Lumagen 5 years ago with it. I have spent the last year going back and forth on the NZ series or waiting for the next update. Dug in and did more research and realized that the Lumagen offers much much more than just tone mapping (which is also considered to be better than JVC’s). So I’m glad I bought the Lumagen, and it has bought me probably more time than I initially thought it would, because it really makes this projector look great.
I'm a lowly public servant who won't ever be able to afford this but, you're so right in that plex is absolutely useless many times over, I'm so tired of the desyncs and nonsense.
For those who don’t want to rip physical media and manage a server, Kaleidescape is very hands-off, and the Kaleidescape store offers new releases well ahead of physical media availability. Zidoo is fine hardware but can’t overcome the convenience and other advantages offered by Kaleidescape.
For some, yes. For others having to track down, order, and rip discs to a server and then store those discs, deal with updates, player glitches and broken apps is ridiculous. Not to mention studios releasing only Blu-ray and then 6-12 months later putting out a UHD disc so you have to buy it twice.
Some questions: - how do you see in the catalog movies you own and are downloaded vs movies you own but are not downloaded. Can you tell the difference ? - if I rent a movie and pay x dollars, and then I decide to buy it because I like it, would I pay full price to buy it ?
The onscreen display will only show movies you have downloaded. If you flip over to the store there’s an area you can see all your owned movies but most users just use the mobile app to view downloaded or all owned content. If you rent a movie ($8) and buy within a month, you get $4 off.
Here I am thinking oh it costs alot? thinking about everything you've said oh must be like $1000 for a player a bit more for a server because it has a hdd etc but $12,000 for a server and player idk what everyone is smoking but ill keep using discs there's premium and then theres taking people for a ride and this goes into snake oil territory absolutely insane.
Excellent points and thorough thought process. I echo a ton of your experience and points of view in my own history with home theater and media and my progression through physical media, streaming, and K.
One feedback, you are kind of conflating ownership concepts between Apple, Netflix, and K. Apple and K are parallel. Neither Apple nor K should remove movies from your purchased library even if they lose the rights to sell that content to new customers. That's not 100% as I have had it happen on both platforms, but it's extremely extremely rare. iTunes is a purchase just like K is a purchase. Netflix is of course different.
I have 3 Plex servers and have never had any issues you mention playing any content. The Shield I have works seamlessly pulling from a movie and media library from a home server. I just cannot see the value vs PLEX.
A lot of people don’t. A lot of people do, including me. The TrueHD/Shield problem is well-documented. It also boiled down to not storing discs, not hassling with ripping discs, and not having to manage the server in terms of tech support. If it’s what you want to do, that’s fantastic, you just saved some cash. I have no desire to spend my time managing the server anymore. I place a high value on the quality of discs with earlier release dates and the convenience of streaming. All the upkeep of PLEX negates that convenience IMO.
@@av_nirvana the shield play all formats iso, rips ,ect with Plex ! And Jellyfin :) I testet
@@av_nirvana I am all for convenience but I don't understand the need to rip your physical media. Just use your physical media when you want to watch it. I do have a NAS solution for my digital content but it's hassle free. And sorry to say but this Kaleidescape solution in principal is the same as mine except it costs far too much and barely has minor benefits. Your arguments to justify your purchase are negligable and not even true. So far my nas solution works locally and remotely. I don't need to do anything. I technically don't even have to update the OS on the Nas because I let third part players handle the transcoding and everything. Kodi and VLC play everything you throw at them. BTW your reaction to one of the commenters is quite condenscending. You act like it's so hard to fulfill your wish on a low budget. He is basically saying that it's not. I would rather spend money on purchasing physical media than waste money on digital sources that one day will disappear. Or the license for your content will be revoked and thus lose your content.
A home theater must have 👌✨
Wow it dims the lights 🤯
Home assistant is great for automation with kscape. There is a component that lets you base automations on all the Movie metadata. I’m automating my lights and lens memory for my projector. Works great.
Awesome! Is that Google Home Assistant or something else?
This seems like the ultimate solution in terms of quality and convenience, but it still relies on a company to continue its existence for all of this to keep working. If this company goes out of business, then how do you get this equipment serviced or replaced?
There's also the issue of cost. Not just the cost of the service and equipment but the cost of the movies on it. $24.99 for Citizen Kane or $7.95 to rent seems pretty pricey.
Discs may be low tech, but they do not rely on a company to continue its existence to keep using them and they are gonna be a bit cheaper to buy most of the time.
Truth be told, we need to start renting discs for $1 USD per title at a video store. That would be cheap and my preferred method. This method might be the most premium but I want a much cheaper solution.
Kaleidescape has already been through the struggle phase and relaunched the company with a store and agreements with the studios. Its popularity continues to grow and the user base is multiplying. That said, any company could go out of business at any time. Every purchase has that risk. It’s not much different than investing in a high-end disc player only to have discs become unavailable.
There are weekly sales in the store that drop titles as low as $9.99 to purchase. I’d love a lower rental cost, but it’s a simple solution to create a wish list of things you want to watch, and whenever something in your wish list goes on sale you receive an email notification as well as in-app.
Like with everything, it’s your decision. For many of us, the benefits far outweigh the negatives. The quality, the convenience, not to mention that Kaleidescape is receiving titles early, and often in higher quality than ever available on disc. Many new titles are UHD HDR on Kaleidescape but will only receive a 1080p Blu-ray release.
Lots of info, but that just means more data to base your decision on. I, for one, have not regretted my purchase one bit.
Nothing beats physical discs! I have around 2000 movies on 4K not available on crappy streaming services, so how in hell can watch those discs on that thing?
And Kaleidescape has currently around 1000 titles in 4K that are only in HD on physical media. No format has everything. What are you going to play your discs on when they stop making players? Or when the discs eventually rot?
@@av_nirvana Clearly you are not in Boutique Labels? Arrow, Vinegar Syndrome, Criterion, Eureka, Scream Factory etc... all those have tons of the great obscure movies in the best possible Picture Quality not available on streaming. So yes Kaleidoscope can be good but we collectors still want play the discs from those boutique labels.
Owning a Kaleidescape doesn’t make your disc player stop working, but owning a disc player doesn’t allow you to playback the 4K titles exclusive to Kaleidescape. Believe it or not, the two can coexist. I have a handful of discs from those studios, and then I have this unique and rare device called an AV Processor that allows me to press a button and playback the few discs I had to have discs that aren’t available on Kaleidescape. Pretty wild, I know.
Great review.
I have worked on numerous Kaleidescape systems. They are wonderful, but expensive. I would more likely jump on Kaleidescape if they allowed me to sync it with Ultraviolet and my physical library.
I agree HTPC's are a niche product with many glitches. I did not know Plex relied on the internet for playback. That is a big hole in their design. I would have gone that route if it took less time and money. My library is close to 1000 discs.
I use a combination of VUDU and physical media.
K used to sync with Ultraviolet but when UV gave way to Movies Anywhere the relationship ended. It’s def pricey but so simple to use and maintain. A luxury purchase for sure.
@@av_nirvana I looked at the movie selection on K-scape versus what I watch. Many of the films I have on my list with 3d-blurayrental are not available along with many of the foreign films I own.
The catalog still has room to grow, but the flip side of that is the content you can get on Kaleidescape early, or in higher quality than anywhere else. Pink Floyd's Delicate Sound of Thunder is only available in UHD on Kaliedescape - disc release is only 1080p. And Maverick just came out on disc a couple weeks ago vs September on Kaleidescape. I still run my PLEX server for things that aren't available on Kaleidescape, and as a DVR, but I haven't been buying any new content besides what's available on Kaleidescape, unless it's something that will obviously never make it onto Kaleidescape.
Don’t forget that you can rip with DvdFab and use a media player like Zappiti. I own over 1200 disc in my collection. My Zappiti player plays everything. Who wants to repurchase their collection again.
I also keep clone copies of my hard drives in case something happens.
I’m thousands of dollars ahead of the game. There’s no guarantee that Kaleidescape will stay in business or keep the license of your movie that you purchased.
@@David25522 kScape doesn’t sell you viewing rights through license. What you buy, you own
Kaleidescape is the best I love mine😃
Ours sees a ton of use. PLEX has been relegated to DVR and rare title storage.
Are Netflix, Amazon prime and all apps possible through the kscape.
No, the Kaleidescape system only plays content from the Kaleidescape store.
Thank you
I'm sorry but at $8k for the Kaleidescape equipment I'd rather buy the discs. UHD Blu-ray players are now cheap and I can assure you you won't notice the difference between Kaleidesape/UHD Blu-ray disc.
That’s absolutely your choice, and physical media is a great option…while it’s still available. There are just so many other factors to consider in this purchase, like storing physical media - I don’t have a place for it. Convenience - it’s as easy as streaming but with full disc quality. That’s just two reasons. There are more, but nobody is bashing your decision to continue buying discs.
@@av_nirvana And no offense taken at all by your response! All good. At the end of the day it really is dependent on use case. Excellent video!
What did your system cost? or what is the price for the most basic setup?
Dealers often offer discounts if you engage with someone local. There are also occasional bundle discounts. Just saw this notice come across yesterday: Between now and June 30, 2023: Strato C + 6TB Terra $7990 ($1000 savings); Strato C + 22TB Terra $12,990 ($2000 savings).
The Strato C + 6TB Terra bundle listed is the most basic current setup.
Hopefully this will be available in Australia soon !!!
I know they're working on adding more markets - crossing my fingers for you!
I hear that it won't be available due to licensing and Australia being fucked over at every turn..
@@garystinten9339 I guise even if it was available it would cost an arm and a leg to get . Would be nice if another company offered a similar service and a lot cheaper, maybe apple will offer higher bitrate movie's 😮😂👍
It wont work in Australia because you are upside down 😅
@@glynmatthews678 🤣🙃🙃🙃🙃
So, the server and the player are separate costs??? I just saw your listing for these basic models on your website. Good Lord!!!
This allows you to have one server feed multiple players in your house, so you can access your content on more than one display.
What happens if the hard drive wears out over time on the Kaleidoscope, cost a lot to replace
Five-year warranty. Kaleidescape can replace the drives. Purchasing a new server is 50% off with an out of warranty failure. And if you have to replace a drive on Kaleidescape, you just click "Download" or you can even have them pre-load your content onto the new drive before they ship it to you, vs having to re-rip everything on a DIY alternative. Time = Money.
I’m thinking about purchasing the server and player. How is c- player connection accomplished.
It connects via your network and requires a hardwire connection - no wi-fi on board.
Boom! Thank you and genuine.
You bet!
1. What about subtitles? Living in Sweden, I quite often encounter a situation where the UHD blu-ray does not have Swedish subtitles, even though the standard blu-ray does. This is quite annoying and wish there was a way to copy and use the blu-ray subtitles for the UHD blu-ray playback. Ex machina is such a title, can you see if it has Swedish subtitles in the UHD version?
2. What about if the company goes bankrupt, what will happen to your movies in terms of access and playback?
1. That’s a great question. I rarely use them, so I had to look. Ex Machina has only English on UHD and English + Spanish on HD. I know many titles have more variety than this example, but you might be disappointed.
2. If the company goes bankrupt, what’s on your server is and always will be yours to keep and watch. Just like our recent internet outage. The document that verifies ownership is located locally on your server and is updated with each purchase/rental, but not at playback (at least that’s how I understand it).
@@av_nirvana Thanks a lot. That's a shame. It would be a real opportunity for them to offer a solution to this issue as it affects a lot of titles in a lot of different countries. Even blockbusters like all of the Avengers movies lack Swedish subtitles on UHD.
2. Ok, good to know. I still wonder about playback though. Are there actual files being downloaded that you can playback with other programs, or do you need their proprietary software?
The files must be played back on Kaleidescape hardware.
Also, they do have a way to sideload alternate movie artwork if you prefer, so there is at least a possibility that subtitles could be downloaded from the internet sources and then sideloaded to the K-scape. Would need to be a feature request tho.
Great review! love the honesty!, my question is what happens if this company would go out of business and most of your media in on cloud since the storage hardrives are super price!
A: I don’t see them going out of business, as they’ve already been through the legal battles that put Zappiti out of business and they have reached agreements with the studios to provide content that is not in a gray area (like ripping physical media)
B: if they do go out of business I don’t see it being an overnight announcement and there will be time to purchase additional storage if needed. This would also be an opportunity to make a deal with Movies Anywhere to provide owners access to their content across other platforms.
C: I don’t spend my time concerned with whataboutisms. I’ll deal with it IF and when it happens.
D: what if they stop selling disc players and you can’t replace a dead player to view your physical media?
E: what if all those optical discs you’ve purchased suffer from laser rot a la LaserDisc?
Any product can suffer from doomsday scenarios. I choose to not waste my days worrying.
I liked the review, but the elephant in the room is cost, cost, cost... the hardware cost is substantial, adding your own movies to the content isn't free, and if you add a movie, you need to rebuild...
Your example is more like hiring a driver to take you everywhere, sure it removes the need to drive, but it also is very expensive.
Don't get me wrong, Kaleidoscope is a great product, and fills a need for people with high-end home theaters, but it's hard to ask people to pay more for a media server then they paid for their TV. In the past, people who purchased this product were the same ones buying a $25,000 Sony front projector and a high end screen.
It’s no secret that Kaleidescape is a luxury product but if you can fit it into the budget it really is a wonderful, easy to use, high quality way to watch movies with many exclusive features that provide added value.
I have a question with that screen ratio. If I have a 2.35:1 screen can I adjust all the movies to that screen ratio and avoid the black bars on the side with typical 16:9 content?
Only by stretching or cropping, which would be done with your projector, not the Kaleidescape.
@@av_nirvana I see, so whats the purpose of that feature it showed of the different aspect ratios?
Other interfaces, like PLEX, don’t accommodate for 2.4:1 content with menus, subtitles and onscreen controls, and if you’re zoomed to fill a scope screen, they’re projected above and below. That setting tells the Kaleidescape where to put that content. It can also scale 16x9 to fit the vertical resolution of scope content, which means you can leave your projector set to scope all the time. And finally, it can adjust the signal output for those who use an anamorphic lens to display scope content.
You are better off with the black bars. Stretching looks weird
Ugh....I felt a pit in my stomach when I first started this video. I've been justifying NOT buying a K for months now. You just literally described me (frugal, but want top quality, bought the AVM60 lightly used). I've halfway attempted the Plex/RIP solution, and it's proven to be cumbersome.
I see the writing on the wall, and you've made too much sense here it's like you made this video series for me specifically. I wanted to believe that only financially unsound people buy these things. Sigh, I can feel my wallet getting lighter.
Great job on the series, very well done.
Thanks Jeff. It's definitely not affordable. There's really no way to actually justify the cost - it just doesn't add up. But it is the best solution out there for disc quality without discs. If that is what you're after, there's no better option available today, if you have the budget. PLEX is great if you have room to store the discs after ripping, and you have the time and know-how to manage the server. I still have my PLEX as a DVR and as catalog storage, but I haven't been adding any new disc rips.
One bonus that's becoming more evident is the early release dates. If you want disc-quality Top Gun Maverick, there's the Kaleidescape or there's wait until November. K releases most titles the same day as iTunes and Movies Anywhere, etc., which is always before the disc. Sometimes a couple weeks, sometimes months. Having skipped Maverick in the theater, having the head start with Kaleidescape was pretty nice.
@@av_nirvana That's almost precisely what got this whole Kaleidescape research started again. I had put the issue "to bed" months ago. I withheld the temptation to watch Top Gun in the theater and preordered the UHD4k from Amazon months ago.
It's just hard to wrap my head around that I'm spending more on just the media server than I did the projector itself (NX5). However, with a JVC NX5 and Triad Gold/Bronze speakers, it does seem like I'm trying to get by with the cheap gas in my high performance car.
Thanks again for the videos. Kaleidescape better be paying you some royalties. :)
Have you talked to your dealer about getting an Alto system to catalog your physical discs, allowing for a cheaper upgrade path for movies you already own.
I've considered it, but I don't know if I'll bother. I have them boxed up and accessible via the PLEX server already. It's a thought, but I don't think I'm going to bother with it.
@@av_nirvana It's definitely something you should consider. It's not difficult process, and within a day you can catalog hundreds of titles. Often, the cost to purchase a digital copy of cataloged discs runs about $5 a title, and in some cases you can go from a DVD quality copy to a 4K HDR copy for under $10. You're dealer's local K sales rep can help with the process. As a Kaleidescape dealer myself, and a strong advocate for the product, your video series is something I'll direct my clients to. Great work.
Great 3 part series about Kaleidescape. I've been a long time Plex user but I find that Kaleidescape has some advantages. Do you know if most Kaleidescape dealers charge at or around MSRP or does it help to shop around for dealers?
I don’t know what the split would be but there are dealers who will discount them, but that’s not as likely when you’re just calling around looking for one item. Many dealers will, however, reward loyalty with a discount here and there.
Have you tried or thought about Kodi for a home media server ? It works wonders on my shield .
I did try Kodi for awhile. I tried PLEX, Kodi, Emby, and Zidoo. There were advantages and disadvantages of all, but I ended up preferring the PLEX interface above the others, though it wasn't perfect. One other thing I didn't mention in this video is that I have a 2.4:1 aspect ratio screen, and none of the other solutions allow you to move all on-screen elements (navigation, info, subtitles, etc.) to force them within the 2.4 space. This i a huge advantage for those of us with cinemascope screens, or even folks who use masking systems when they're playing 2.4 content.
I stay with disc all time
And there’s nothing wrong with that. Kaleidescape is for those who don’t want to store discs and enjoy the convenience of streaming/digital libraries, but don’t want to give up the quality of disc.
@@av_nirvana I just rent out movies on disc
Which I also did, but I don’t like waiting for the mail (especially the last year and a half), and local rental stores are almost all gone.
@@av_nirvana true with the rental store almost gone but I rent from Netflix plus I only have weekends for watching movie with my family
Scarecrow Video in Seattle is a fantastic rental store, but it’s a half hour away, and Redbox doesn’t have enough 4K options, nor does Netflix. I was using GameFly, which was decent, but again, slow mail, and I tend to choose on the day we watch, too.
Don’t forget that you can rip with DvdFab and use a media player like Zappiti. I own over 1200 disc in my collection. My Zappiti player plays everything. Who wants to repurchase their collection again.
There’s no guarantee that Kaleidescape will still be in business years from now. Will they lose the license to the movie that you purchased from them???
The answer to your question is no, whatever is downloaded is downloaded and owners have access to view without contacting a server for permission. And there is also no guarantees that DVDFAB, MakeMKV, PLEX, Kodi, Zappiti, Zidoo and all the other DIY solutions won’t be shut down by the industry. Kaleidescape has legally binding agreements with the studios, while the DIY solutions are straddling a fence in legal gray area.
@@av_nirvana The problem with Kaleidescape, in my humble opinion, is that its future is highly dependent on the relationship between the owners and movie studios. If key owners are accused of anything in their real life, it could lead to studios immediately severing ties with the company and taking back what K-Scape customers have already purchased.
It's a good product but its future is not guaranteed if we're being honest.
Quite frankly, your response could apply to any system; but the DIY solutions based on ripping physical media are at the greatest risk of being shut down.
@@David25522 what you purchase from Kscape, you own. No different than a disc, just in digital form. So, it can’t be taken away.
Hard drives do fail eventually.
Good look getting back your purchased media.
How is the keleidescape connected to system.
HDMI for audio and video, and Ethernet connection pulls content from the server to the players.
@@av_nirvana thank you, very helpful.
I've been reading online that uploading physical media to a drive is illegal.
Kaleidescape is the only legit legal licensed system. PLEX is in grey area, but the opinion is if you have the physical media on the property with your server, and they’re merely backups, you’re in decent legal standing. Never been tested though. Kaleidescape is not ripping media to a drive.
Kaleidescape is much to expensive for me. I use Zapitti, it is much cheaper and I rip the Blu Rays to a harddisk. I buy or borrow Blu Rays which I then rip. It is probably not as sophisticated as Kaleidescape but much cheaper and I have 1:1 copies of Blu Ray , 4k Blu Rays and 3D Blu Rays on my own harddrives. so no chance of my movies disappearing because Kaleidescape or the film company removed them. And I have really never had a spec of dust cause my rip to fail.
Vudu was better before Walmart bought it.
Half of this is equivalent to arguing benefits for purchasing content on iTunes…. Almost everything here Plex can do better with low maintenance. The main issue is just money versus learning how to one time setup a good Plex system. Even for the restoration issue mentioned, cloud backups with things like Backblaze is a must.
KScapes biggest bonuses are in aspect ratio stuff and niche things.
And Plex easily works offline when their services are down when setup correctly…
iTunes does not offer lossless audio. Like I stated, when you spend as much as some of us spend to build up our audio and video systems, we want to have the highest quality content. Kaleidescape is the highest quality content with the convenience and hassle-free experience of an iTunes account.
@@av_nirvana The iTunes comparison is mainly around the "auto updating purchased video quality" portion. Just as a note to this, I've invested a significant amount of time and money into my systems. I'm fairly certain my Home Theater itself is north of $50k atm from equipment purchased and put together over time. Kaleidoscope does have its value propositions, but I'm still in disagreement that this video points out any of those propositions. Frankly, this video concludes with if you want a hassle free experience and don't care about money IMO without justifying the cost.
You wish you have not purchased the JVR projector? Please explain more, I am in the same situation.
I have a JVC X790R which has no tone mapping. Some HDR looks great; some looks terrible. I’ve since added a Lumagen to handle Dynamic Tone Mapping and it’s incredible, I wish I’d added it sooner.
@@av_nirvana Thanks for letting me know. I have the JVC X950R in my vacation home's theater which recently upgrade to my older Sony Ruby projector. I guess even my new projector is now obsolete. I am glad that the lumagen can give it some new life. If you had to do it over, you would have waited to buy a JVC projector that uses a laser and tone mapping? Thanks
I’ve had this projector for 5 years now and I’m glad I’ve had it. I just wish I’d bought the Lumagen 5 years ago with it. I have spent the last year going back and forth on the NZ series or waiting for the next update. Dug in and did more research and realized that the Lumagen offers much much more than just tone mapping (which is also considered to be better than JVC’s). So I’m glad I bought the Lumagen, and it has bought me probably more time than I initially thought it would, because it really makes this projector look great.
I'm a lowly public servant who won't ever be able to afford this but, you're so right in that plex is absolutely useless many times over, I'm so tired of the desyncs and nonsense.
Zidoo o.o
For those who don’t want to rip physical media and manage a server, Kaleidescape is very hands-off, and the Kaleidescape store offers new releases well ahead of physical media availability. Zidoo is fine hardware but can’t overcome the convenience and other advantages offered by Kaleidescape.
$9000 for a the basic setup is ridiculous.
For some, yes. For others having to track down, order, and rip discs to a server and then store those discs, deal with updates, player glitches and broken apps is ridiculous. Not to mention studios releasing only Blu-ray and then 6-12 months later putting out a UHD disc so you have to buy it twice.
Some questions:
- how do you see in the catalog movies you own and are downloaded vs movies you own but are not downloaded. Can you tell the difference ?
- if I rent a movie and pay x dollars, and then I decide to buy it because I like it, would I pay full price to buy it ?
The onscreen display will only show movies you have downloaded. If you flip over to the store there’s an area you can see all your owned movies but most users just use the mobile app to view downloaded or all owned content.
If you rent a movie ($8) and buy within a month, you get $4 off.
That thing is for lazy people with more money than sense.
I'll keep my home made server, raspberry pis, and continue to just rip and archive.
Do you have comcast? The data caps make the internet unusable.
We are on century link gigabit fiber with no cap.
@@av_nirvana As far as I know, Comcast still have their data cap. Did Centurylink use to have a cap but then removed it?
Don’t know. We just moved here two years ago and have had the same CenturyLink service the whole time, never had a cap.