Ep. 47 Dolby Atmos Setup Major Mistakes | Fix your Home Theater and drop Jaws!! Home Theater Gurus
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- čas přidán 28. 02. 2022
- 👉✅Mistakes are killing your Dolby Atmos and they are far too common. Achieve Atmos the way it SHOULD be HEARD! Home Theater Gurus top Atmos mistakes. Is a 7.1.6 worth it? Should you use wall speakers for Atmos? Dolby Atmos Major Mistakes.
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@@cd2920 I know but it's too late as this video is made. There's very important info here. and it's free so if you want that info you're gonna have to buckle up and suffer through.
I'm the Dolby Atmos mastering engineer at Deadly Mix Studios.
I just wanted to watch a couple videos like this to see what information consumers are getting online so that I can take it into consideration when I'm working, but I figured I should stop and mention that this is actually really good information overall for consumers.
I would add, though, that your "do what sounds best" advice should definitely come with an asterisk.
In the example where you said it, yes, not much else really matters if something is blocking the direct signal. Otherwise, it's VERY important that the system is setup based on math in accordance with the recommendations provided by Dolby. It is absolutely IMPERATIVE that consumers do so.
In order to ensure objects appear in their intended locations, speakers need to be where your Atmos decoder (reciever/soundbar/computer/game system) expects them to be. All the speakers work together to create the sonic illusion that a given object is moving/positioned in the space around you. If a speaker is not where it's expected to be, the effect doesn't work. This is especially problematic for moving objects because the mastering engineer designed that movement to occur in specific locations over a specific period of time. If they're too close, the sound occurs in the wrong location and the time of travel remains the same, but the distance traveled is shorter, which will make the speed slower and out of focus, or won't seem to move much at all; depending on the size ofnthe error. If the distance is too far, the speed will be in the wrong location and seem faster because it travels a greater distance in the same length of time.
Thanks! I do agree with everything you said. I think you'd really like ep 48 and 49 where we really dig into the studio guide which in reality if far more performanced based than the sales based home guide.
Hi, im from Germany, my room have the Couch on the Back wall my Setup ist 5.2.4 with Front hights and top rear speaker. Ist this Setup working?
This is where the extraordinary Sony 360 spatial mapping come to place I believe, the avr equipped with this makes it soo much easier for the average consumer, but still just make sure the over head speakers are angled at the listening position do the 360 calibration and voila, its really something other avrs have to look into
tell me this, if you have a 7.1 system like say yamaha AV4A or A6A and you have 2 fronts L+R, plus 2 middle Surround speakers L=R can you add 2 L+R rear surround speakers? So its a 7.1 with just 1 subwoofer?
All well and good if you have ceiling speakers, what if you do not have them and you have just rear speakers at the back of the room in each corner?
Will the yamaha 7.1 work with a 7.1 sound track movie and the rear back speakers provide effects based on the movie your watching? I have heard that it will not work for atmos, other sound effects like DTS or dolby (R) and other registered sound effects based on the type or brand of av receiver you have, as per its specs ?
Also with earc now days ,if your tv has atmos it will maybe not transfer the sound though the av receiver and i has seen that if you have a yamaha to put the sound on STRAIGHT and then it will? Also i know you can do a sound test to see if the speakers are working based on your set up, but again it all depends on the av sound processing system for different effects etc?
Anyone with feedback would greatly be appreciated? 👍👍🦘👌✌
I calculate the angles and distances quickly on my phone calculator using the Tan and Inverse Tan functions. Rotate the phone to landscape format to flip it from basic to scientific mode and access all the Sin, Cos and Tan functions.
Rem the Tan of the Angle = the ratio of the distance OPPOSITE the angle (the ceiling distance forwd or back from above the seating position) divided by the distance ADJACENT to the angle ie ( the distance from the seating position to the ceiling, or wall).
So for a 30 deg angle for/backwards at a ceiling height above ear level of 1.67 metres, you take the Tan of 30 and multiply by 1.67m to get 96 cm. (for and backwards from the seating position. I calculated all my ATMOS speaker angles from our new house building plans.
if you have a known speaker position already (distance from an overhead or centreline "O") and a height or wall distance ("A")and want to find the angle. Divide O /A and use the Inverse Tan (on iPhone press the 2nd button on the Scientific calculator and then Tan (which then appears as Tan-1, to get the Angle that that speaker position makes. I reckon on ear level being about 1m above the floor.
And an aide memoir for calculating angles of right angled triangles, where Sin = O/H, Cos = A/H and Tan =O/A is:
Six Old Hags Came And HadTea One Afternoon, O = the side opposite the Angle, A = the side adjacent and H = Hypotenuse
This is the most informative no BS video I’ve seen on this topic.
So much learnt from this video that I had no idea about - and now I understand why I am so underwhelmed with my atmos setup. My speaker choice and placement is all wrong, but now I know how to fix it.
Thank you
You're very welcome! Report back once you get them in place. We're also on Facebook.
I watch the video and moved my speakers around ran room correction. It made a huge difference in discrete sounds and atmospheric sounds and music. I have a unfinished basement ceiling and I’m so glad I haven’t finished it yet because I probably would’ve never change them if I had to run wire and replace drop ceiling panels. I can’t believe the difference. I couldn’t find my laser so I used a tape measure extended from SPEAKER and pointed it at the listening position to get my aim right. Right now I’m using small box speakers. When I get the ceiling done I’m going to purchase ceiling speakers that are able to be aimed at the listing position. Thanks so much for sharing your expertise. This is really a game changer! Night and day difference. I never really heard the atmospherics until I change my speaker position and angles🤯
Awesome... I think this comment deserves to be pinned at the top!! :)
Yep. I agree. Fantastic video
@@hometheatergurus understand told items with THX logo like sound systems speakers sound better can produce more true Atmos or DTS:X experience so they claim means processors for audio playback was tested by DOLBY AND THX see if it meet there standards which is rare. If like video games be sure get lazy boy chairs which can butt kickers so feel and hear action. App for them goes from 100 wats and up power wise.
As a Floridian, I'm envious of people who have the basements. I always have to convert a room, and end up trying to solve all kinds of limitation issues with spaces that were never intended to be media rooms. Nonetheless, its always a treat to hear about someone else's project, and progress. I hope yours is going well.
Obviously with floor standing speakers, subs, even wall mounted speakers (to a degree), we can move them around the room, run correction again, run REW, and move things over and over. With holes in the ceiling, that's not exactly an option, unless you have a drop ceiling I guess you have some trial and error and replacement without breaking the bank or getting divorced... This single video changed my whole understanding (cost me a bit more money when I thougt my gear collection was over, lol) but super glad I watched this right before install up top. Was literally about to router my ceiling holes when I wanted to triple check CZcams for any last bits of advice. Just ordered my middle Atmos row, comes tomorrow, all 6 holes will be cut by then! Thanks, sincerely, this video is gold to me and you have a new subscriber and donor.
I have been researching this speaker placement for several weeks now. I am only running a 5.1.2 setup and have multiple marks on my ceiling as to where to place my Focal Dome's for my top front. Got the lazer out to place them exactly in line with my front mains and rear surrounds. I watched this video at a good time cuz I was finally gonna screw them in tonight. Thank you so much for this video. Makes a lot of sense. Thank you!
This is the single most upgrade I’ve done to my home theater for the greatest result. And it didn’t cost me a dime. If you haven’t done this you are missing out on a great experience. Thank you
Great feedback Dave! It's hard to put into words how huge a difference placement and setup is with Atmos.
Thank you. I'm building a home theater right now. Running wire tonight. And what Gene was telling me six months ago about Atmos placement makes sense now.
Thank you!!! I placed my top mids according to your measurements and very pleased with the sound im getting. Its a very different experience for sure. I can now distinguish and feel the sounds coming off those speakers.
WOW! I have a very small room, just 13' x 10' and 7'6" high ceiling. Using 7.1.2. Just moving my speakers up 1' and changing the angle in to the listener, instead of the opposite the front speakers, made a HUMOUNGOUS difference to the Atmos sound.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.
I'm now looking to upgrade to a 7.1.4 and know exactly where I will place my ceiling speakers!!!
This is probably one of the best explanations of installing, reasons, etc of atmos/speakers for home theater.
Great video, Steven. A real breath of fresh air - a video purely based on accurate information.
I installed my height speakers (top front / top rear) back in around 2018 and fell for one of those Dolby images (I should have read the supporting documents better) and installed in ceiling speakers firing straight down. I calculated the correct angles from the MLP, but fired them straight down. 🤦♂️
I hope your video spreads far and wide. Many people say how useless Atmos is, yet they purchased the cheapest in ceiling speakers they could get (because height channels don’t matter, right?!?!?) and didn’t follow the correct angles. Doh. ☺️
Thanks Dan and yeah hopefully this saves a few people. :)
@@hometheatergurus so which is best Stereo or Surround
@@hometheatergurus my Stereo comes with a 4 speaker Sub Woofer Sharp System with Surround 2 speakers stereo is not huge but it is a very powerful sound system
Thanks to your advices I moved my top channels from a 90 angle to 60 degree angle instead of having them in line with the mains as suggested by Dolby home setup. What a difference, while listening to Audiosphere demo I was trying to reach for the sound with my hands. Thanks man!
Awesome. It's crazy how much of a difference it makes.
Blessings and Thank You for taking the time to go into detail about the importance of properly placing Atmos speakers, amazing, peace
Thanks David, Glad you found it useful!
Really important video I had came acrossed while redesigning my home theatre. Hope will get those jaw dropping effect from my Atmos!
Thanks in advance!
Thank you for a very straight-forward explanation that brings the important points together. Love your videos!
Thanks!
I listen to what everyone has to say, that being said I always come back to you for accurate information on how and where, great job as always. Thanks again.
Thanks Graham!
Thank you so much for this great information. I am fortunate enough to be at the start of a fresh build in which I've got a dedicated 12.8 ft (Screen wall), 29.5 ft long and 7.9 ft roof height (looks weird as i converted from the metrics that we use to the closest feet) to play with. I'm currently debating everything such as suitable screens, amp, speakers and speaker locations and this information helps immensely. I've not setup a new room since my original 5.1 era and I think that a decent supporting amp and speaker setup to support Atmos is the go in 2022. I am still learning such as supporting 2 or 4 atmos speakers etc but I'll get there.
Thanks man... you cost me another $1100 right when I thought I was done to buy top middles lol... i had 2 extra amp channels and 2 more channels in my MC1 processor I wasn't going to use but EXACTLY as you said... "you don't need top middles in a small room" is all I heard in fact Jonathon on Youthman's 3 guy podcast style vid just last week said "you won't gain anything from adding a middle atmos row" when someone in the chat asked the exact question addressed here. As soon as you pull out the white board and explain the angles, my whole world came together with a sigh of relief as FINALLY making sense! Between conficting CZcams vids, (especially) Dolby's literature, and chatting with friends who have Atmos, I was in a constant gray area of understanding... the thing with this Ep. 47 is, we don't have to take your word for it, the angles and gaps if voids of channels are left, or speakers are placed on walls, etc, it just makes sense physically! We just needed someone to explain it better as you have and I thank you.
What a great video, wish I had watched this years ago! Definitely going to review my speaker positioning again. It just makes sense the way you explain it!
Awesome. If possible go straight for the 35 out I recommended and no farther. If you're doing 4 up top go about 35 -40 forward. Then report back. I'm compiling all the feedback on an AVS thread.
Outstanding help! I truly appreciate all you do!
You've perfectly addressed 2 issues I've been dealing with, the confusion with Dolby's pdf regarding the width of the height speakers, it looked like it was contradicting itself and I wasn't sure which to follow, it made more sense to me to go angle based rather than based on the width of your mains, but you reaffirmed this with logic. Also with the tone winner channel limitations, I've been non stop thinking of choosing either wides or middle heights, but your explanation points out that I'm really choosing to fill either a 90 degree gap or 60 degree gap, looking at it this way makes it an obvious choice, thank you so much for breaking down the science.
Thanks and yep sounds like your the guy that watched the whole video...😀. I'm glad you found it helpful. It's always best to understand your hobby vs blindly doing things and never know if it's right or wrong.
Also (and somebody correct me if I’m wrong) but from what I understand, width speakers don’t work with the Dolby upmixer, so bang for your buck mids are better because you’ll be using them for non native Atmos mixes
@@scottnorris9079 Dolby's upmixer DSU has supported wides since an update that began getting pushed out around November of 2020. So I'd does upmix to wides and is freaking fantastic.
As for wides vs top mids, if you have the atmos spaced out 90 or more then yeah top mids make sense. If you're placed per the video with 4 atmos grouped closer than wides are without a doubt the way to go.
Home Theater Gurus that’s good to know. I’m a mlp focused kinda guy, no back row of anything, so I can get the heights in spec. Perhaps wides it is! Thanks for the info
Learned more in 20 mins than years of random “theater setup videos“
Glad it helped. Check out ep 49 for a quick method to place atmos.
Glad I stumbled upon this and thank you for taking the time to share your expertise dude for real
Thanks and you're welcome. Make sure and see the newer videos as i have one with a one page diagram i made to quickly lay them out.
what a great video, thank you. this answers exactly the questions that were on my mind
Hey Steven! another great informative video…well done!
I’ve finally pulled the trigger on a AVM-60, just wow 😯
Loving it 😘
Keep the great videos coming mate. 👍🏼🍻
Thanks Darren!
This video is incredible! Now I get a clearer picture how to place the speaker. Thank You for making this. I will have to watch this many times over to grasp the calculations.
See ep 49.
@@hometheatergurus I watched it three times last night and I'm still planning to continue watching it. I need to start from EP1. I stumbled upon your video while researching how to set up Dolby Atmos 7.1.3 and considering purchasing the Onkyo TX-RZ50. Thank you so much for creating the video!
One of the main reasons I replaced my system was to add atmos. I have a finished basement and put my atmos speakers where it was convenient at the time and was underwhelmed with the results. I have been watching your other videos and have been moving speakers around using string to aim them. Now it's time to move my atmos speakers and they are located way different from the original position based on this lesson. Cant wait to run room correction and see the difference. I have been really enjoying your channel, thanks to Youthman who sent me here. Thanks for all the advice!
You're welcome and report back once you get them and moved. I'm compiling the feedback... 😁
Thank you for this video! I learned so much from this and have been looking for exactly this kind of help!
You're welcome. Make sure and check out ep 49 as it's more to the point with atmos placement and has a quick formula to help you place them.
Great video. I was questioning my setup which I followed the Dolby atmos guide but remember looking at Trinnov, Yamaha etc and measured eveything out i think back then on google sketch and using a laser measurer etc, my angles are spot on This was back in 2016 when building the house. My room is a odd size have a rear 4 seater and two single reclyners. My front height are mounted in the front corners pointed down, Rear heights are around 1300m from rear wall and about 300mm in from wall mounted in the ceiling with tweeters pointed to the center (rear seat), but watching your video the angles apear spot on. I cant recall looking at angles but must of as front to rear height is exactly 90degrees listner to front is exactly 35. My rear mains are in the rear corners these are floor standing towers with the tweeters at ear height. Fronts are in corner, have front left and right subs and a rear center (more for rumble). Everything sounds pin point acurate except the center ch as this is bellow the projector screen and my rear heights seem to not match the upgraded floors as its only a 6.5" yamaha and may need to go to a 8", the front height are a Jamo C9 so ok. Im looking at having two rows of seats in the future rear raised. Hopping the setup is still going to be good. not sure if its worth going from a 5.2.4 to a 7.2.6 or what ever will be any bennifit?
Hi Steve, I saw your video this morning and I’ve got two pairs of Martin Logan Motion 4’s on mounts for my top fronts and top rears. In ceiling speakers aren’t an option in my room, I’ve done them to Dolby white paper spec and the effect was meh. A few months ago I changed them to very closely reflect your spec and the difference was night and day. What I truly enjoy about your videos is that you show empirical evidence on the how and why not just “do this and trust me.” It’s refreshing and I appreciate the work you put in!
Thanks Joseph, I figure this hobby is too expensive to not really understand the goals. The info is out there it's just so often ignored or not understood, even by pros.
Great video! Wish these types of videos were out when I built my room! Next house I will take more time to plan everything out!
Thanks! Yeah we don't know what we don't know. It's always a great idea to have a pro do a room layout design. Hint hint...:)
There’s still so much misinformation out there. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen people telling others that the ceiling speakers need to be inline with the main speakers. I would have done just that if I hadn’t seen this video. Thanks for this. Very informative
yep that is one of the goofiest placement ideas I've seen. Absolutely zero known angle and most often unless you have a really tall ceiling they are always placed way to wide and smearing with the bed layer. There's a reason that only exist in dotted lines and not in any written wording. It's almost like someone got confused when they made the diagrams.
New intro. Getting fancy now. 😀 Thanks for the content!
Ha.. Well I have a client that does editing for a living and he did some magic on the video. If I did that intro it would be in crayons...😀
this was super helpful. My biggest takeaway is that if I'm forced to elevate my bed layer, I can cheat the overhead layers toward the center to compensate
Another great video 👏👏👏👏👏
Coincidentally on the same pattern, I used my physics /sound and optics knowledge to set up my system a year ago….thanks for your great info..🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
How?
Awesome video. You’re so correct placement is everything. It would be great if you could give us a tour of your beautiful home theatre. Keep up the great work
Thanks Dave. You know I may shoot a walkthrough this weekend...
@@hometheatergurus that would be awesome! Can’t wait!
Great video! Thanks for the info
Awesome video, very informative, thank you
Thanks another great video... I've taken the time to do the angles system design is looking a lot better ... Cheers
Super clear and useful explanation. Thanks a lot
Glad it was helpful!
I too made the mistake of following the Atmos setup diagram. I ended up being dissatisfied and saw the DTSX demo rooms. Realizing they have the height speakers aimed at the listening positions. I learned not to use downfiring speakers. Ended up removing them and getting some higher end bipole speakers and mounting them on my ceiling around 45° @MLP. The baffle is already angled. Made all the difference in immersion.
yep, That diagram needs to be updated quick.
as always very informative. Thx. FYI: I have 4 Devastators V5 using 21" Lavoce each and absolutely love them. Room is 19x12x8 sealed dedicated room and my room gets very nicely pressurized :-).
Thanks! I filmed the Dev assembly last weekend. I'm just waiting on the drivers to finish the video. Looking forward to getting those beasts fired up!
I'm so glad you designed my room! Atmos and surrounding sound was kinda bad before you helped me out.
I'm glad we got to design it together as well. This was a peak from the inside. :)
@@hometheatergurus Hi again, how can I get the room design (speakers placements) from you? I would love to get the proper dimensions and angles. Thanks
7th time watching it. It's finally sinking in. :) Thanks for your help.
This is so damned good! I'm nowhere near ready to install a wicked theater system but I find this theory unreasonably interesting 🤟
Thanks Jim!!!
Since my (new) AVR is not allowing me to adjust the independent volume levels of my full range, down firing, in the corners, Height speakers (for reasons unknown) I switched the settings from Height to Dolby ATMOS... AND this gives me the balance I was looking for. They are not firing at the ceiling... they are down firing from the corners to my listening location. It's working well... LOL Just had never checked doing this before. I also do not have my Mains placed directly below the heights like you mention... this just happened by chance... But Yes... I completely understand and enjoy the better dispersion of this placement. Don't know why Dolby say's place everything in line... I like the adage... If you want sound coming from a certain area... put a speaker there! Don't bounce it off the ceiling. Thank you for this video.
Great video as always !!! 😀👍👍
Bit of an odd situation: the room I'm planning to build has a 9' ceiling for most of the room, but from the back wall, to about 4 feet out, I have the HVAC bulkhead running which reduces the ceiling height to 8'. How would I calculate the rear atmos placement for this situation?
Thank you for this excellent explanation.
Thanks Optimal!
@Home Theater Gurus - Great video as always! I appreciate the knowledge. By any chance will you do a video like this for DTS-X & Auro3D speaker placements/setups? Thanks.
Thanks Tony! I may do those in the future.
Great video,have seen so many high profile installers blindly following Dolby diagram. Am surprised even Trinnov engineer agreed to this layout in a podcast with Sparechange. Only Anthony Grimani said what u r saying
Thanks! Yeah I see very few "high end" designers that actually seem to understand the goal. Grimani is awesome and leans on the science and not a one page diagram. Gotta love that!
This is good info, about the angles is new for me.
It's always been there. Read the Dolby guidelines. In particular the studio one.
Great video and very informative. If I’ve set up my heights(svs prime Elevations mounted to my ceiling) per your videos and Dolby Atmos , should I assign in my Denon 4500 as top front and rears which is in the correct placement but only will output Dolby Atmos old dts-x or should I assign as front and rear HEIGHTS , to gain Auro 3D ? I’m not really noticing an overall immersive experience. Thank you for all of your videos and knowledge you share to help out the dedicated enthusiasts.
Very informative and really makes sense.
Thanks Mark!
Thanks for the great video.
I just installed my in ceiling Atmos speakers 2 weeks ago in preparation for my 7.2.4 Denon 4700H and Tonewinner AD7300 setup.
Had such a good explanation of placement been available earlier I may have made some changes. I am 90% of the way there. I will review my angles and see how close I came to ideal.
I thought 7.2.6 would have been overkill but now that you explain it I can see the value of the middle pair of Atmos speakers. Maybe a future upgrade will include a 13ch processor and another Tonewinner amp 😉
Thanks Chris. There was a time I thought the same thing. :)
Bear in mind that there is a big issue with x.x.6 in the home, which is that a great number of home Atmos mixes are encoded as 9 pre-panned static objects (7 ear level and 2 heights) rather than fully dynamic objects. For instance, Ready Player One uses two static objects for heights with objects only moving slightly during the movie due to object grouping. The issue here is that with a x.x.6 layout, these two static heights will typically ONLY play back from the top mid speakers. Top Front and Top Rear will remain completely silent for the entire movie.
Where x.x.4 may be better in this case is that these two static height objects will image at the top mid position, meaning top front and top rear will play this content back at equal levels, which can effectively sound better across multiple rows. Contrast that with a fully dynamic mix like Midway, which uses 7 ear level, 2 static heights, plus dynamically moving objects. In this case, the static heights still play back only from the top mid in a x.x.6 layout... but any dynamic objects can pass through any available speaker in the room, so the top front and rear still get used.
@@TheReverendSlim very interesting, thanks for that.
Get in, I've missed the whiteboard! 😅 Thanks for the great content as usual 👍
Thanks Gaz and I've missed the white board too. :).
Good video. I'll check placement of my atmos channels, as I swear I don't hear them most of the time, but when I put my ear right up to them they're working. I've always figured it was a placement issue. All I know is that when I go to the theater, I see 4 surrounds on the left, 4 on the right, and 4 in the back. That's in addition to the mains, center and the subs in the front. The ceiling is so high that I can't imagine they put speakers on the ceiling. In my estimation, theaters only have speakers on all 4 walls, high up, facing downward. I bet the speaker specs are basically full range, high power - because sometimes I see the woofers if the lighting is just right and they're at least 10", maybe 12" woofers. So that's 12 speakers just for the surrounds, each w/ a 12" woofer. Again, not including the mains, center and subs behind the screen.
Thanks! See the newest video as I actually go more in depth with placement and we look at a cinema layout just to compare.
Ugh, this is a great video. And I just ran speaker wires in walls to rear and ceiling speakers based on that dang dolby diagram (I deep dived into every combo they had but still didn't understand it until your video), but I think I'm not too far off the angles. But now I have my architect software up, some paper, pen and protractor trying to double check. Also - thanks for pointing out those amps that can run the higher # of channels. I could not find a good amp that did enough, so I bailed on more than 2 ceiling speakers. I'm sub'd your channel, will be watching it a lot. And even though drywall just went in, I'll run wires across the ceiling if I have to at this point if I can get this right with more height speakers. Awesome info.
Thanks again for another great video!
Nice Zen music. Works well for guided meditations. But informative stuff like this, not so much.
Regardless your content is excellent.
Atmos and nature.... I thought it fit.. Thanks for watching!
Awesome video, one of the best I’ve seen outlining all this. While I know lcr placement wouldn’t be as fun a video, do you have a similar video for them? I am building a full triad room as well with the gold lcr, so super in line with your current build.
Thanks! Yeah ep1 covers that but be warned it was my first video and isn't going to win any awards.. :)
I use M1 for sealing you can aim those and I can't make holes, sometimes you have to compromise if you don't have the space,my room is 13 f long 13 f wide and 10f high plus furniture and is my bedroom I managed to get a 7.2.4 lots of moving tweaking
lesson learnt - well taught - thank u so much
Very welcome
Great video. Thank you. Looks like I've got some work to do. My setup is completely wrong.
Thanks. Report back with feedback!
@@hometheatergurus I've done a few measurements, my room sucks, I'm in a rental and there is no chance of putting speakers on the ceiling. 😢. But you have brought up a few things that I believe will definitely help, things I completely overlooked. If your up for a challenge I can email you my room measurements and relative info on my setup
Any recommendations for a small space where MLP’s are backed right up against a wall? I’m running a 5.1.4 and my Rear surrounds are kind of planted in line with the couch and the rear atmos are attached to the wall close to the ceiling and do not have much separation (looking for ceiling speaker options as well)
Also - I find the bass very “boomy” against the wall as opposed to if I E.g lean forward and away from the wall.
Thank you
Brilliant thanks!
Great vid, thank you for informing us. If I put my front and rear atmos angles at 35° and used an RSL type of good inexpensive speaker or similar w/15° angled speaker, wouldn’t I still be off vertical axis by 20°. So should I try to match my angles and speakers, like 45° angles and 45° angle speakers, 35° to 35°, etc?
Great video! Great information! I would love to see it in a SketchUp file! Or even more ambitious, in a Fusion 360 file. Then you could change room dimensions and the speakers would move accordingly!
Better yet if audioadvise free design tool can integrate the atmos speaker placement into their current app
I have sloped ceilings which flattens out at 8' peak height but the level area at top is only a little less than 5' wide. My Atmos speakers would need to only be 4'+ separation side to side (horizontal) but have plenty of space vertical separation (total 4 speakers). I plan to use angled baffles to tweeters to aim at the MLP. So my question is will I still get a good height experience with the the Atmos speakers being only 4' spacing between them horizontally? My calculations would show I need to place them about 3' in front and back of the MLP. Thanks. Really enjoy your videos.
Wow…they got me with the pdf too. I’ve been trying to figure out why my Atmos is garbage.
Check out the video that just came out. It digs in a little deeper. czcams.com/video/kGZsrU4oNAM/video.html
awesome lecture, thank you
Thanks Spane!
Very informative
Awesome and really well explained video, thank you,
Just a quick question,
I’m converting a very small room to a home cinema 7.1 and atmos,
Problem is the length of my 8’ high ceiling is only 12’ x 9’ wide
I’m not sure with that size if I should run 2 4 or 6 atmos,
Any advice would be most helpful,
Thank you in advance.
Great video- it’ll be very useful to many, and clears up various misinfo/disinfo. I’m glad you state in the beginning that placement (angular and otherwise), depends on the specific speaker. We work with speakers like the Ocean Way HR4’s which are about 110 by 45 degrees +/- 1 dB from about 40 Hz to 22kHz and various Martin Logans like the Vanquish HP in ceiling’s that are about +/- 2.5 dB 40Hz to 22kH at about 85 x 40 degrees. Big difference between them and let’s say the Focal Solo 6’s, Barefoot, Klipsch or PMC or others in terms of sweep angles that are optimal or even viable for placement, as well as what happens when you skew to the listener across the speaker’s horizontals.
One thing that I find is very important, and which many who are mixing ATMOS (not even counting those who mix ATMOS in binaural on headphones), is that the LFE for music is handled massively different from mixing for movies in the Dolby Renderer and into the DAW. In fact, many of us doing ATMOS and other immersive mixing work mix via objects rather than to the Bed (i.e. not channeled to the bed in the renderer, but sent to objects instead), which has major implications in terms of effectively ignoring LFE metadata in most mix configs and situations. Then NAD, Trinnov, Focal, Marantz and others vary both the setting options as well as what they mean. So, my advice generally is to try to opt for wide dispersion pattern monitors and speakers, and consider the average listener position rather than the extremes in most situations. There are other tricks you can play psychoacoustically in terms of DSP, room materials/surfaces, etc, but for many those are not realistic options. Anyway, just my opinion from the limited, maybe 8 years of ATMOS experience. In any case, I am thankful it generally keeps improving both on the mixing/mastering and the consumer/end-user levels.
Very True, unfortunately manufactures throw around the term wide dispersion as it sells and many don't even understand what the difference in controlled dispersion vs wide dispersion as the two mean very different things. I did a video a few years back that touched on it but should probably do an updated one.
Mind blown. Putting up wall-mounted Klipsch atmos speakers tomorrow and this changes everything.
Man I'm glad you saw this first. Stop everything..ha. See the newer Atmos video where I made a one page diagram with easy formulas to find the locations.
@@hometheatergurus One thing i dont see about height speakers that are wall mounted (I have 4x R-41SA im going to install), is anything about angling them towards the primary seated position. Sure, they are angled down, but depending on how far away shouldn't you also need to mount them angled inwards to help create the bubble? I'm a bit limited in wall space, so they're going to go almost to the side of my primary seat and then at the ~ceiling from the front. Shouldn't the front speakers be angled in a little? Or overthinking? I've never seen mounts to accommodate that with heights like the R-41SA. I know some of my positioning isn't ideal, but figure this will be a net positive and am trying to control what I can.
Thanks!
Great video. I’ve always looked at those Dolby drawings with speaking separation in mind…first. Looking forward to the AVM70 review. I’ve been trying to decide between it and the Monoprice HTP-1, so that Tonewinner review would help also.
Thanks BG! I need to get the AVM70 video out. I should have the Tonewinner 300 in for review in the near future.
@@hometheatergurus Thank you very much 👍😉And Sexy Arms & Cute Bald 😉👍🔥🔥🔥👏👏👏
Great videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I have a room that is 15' x 10.5' and I have enough speakers to easily build a 9.4.6 Atmos system. There is nothing in the room except a love seat. All the audio/video gear is in a gear room beside the room I am considering using. You have said that surround wides and Atmos center speakers make a big difference. Thoughts?
I only have a ceiling height of 6’8.I have followed your advice on Atmos speaker positioning
and it’s spot on.
Side speaker positioning is a challenge with such a low ceiling.You suggest 4’ high for a 8’ ceiling so does that suggest 3’4 high for a 6’8 ceiling?
Awesome video. You are the only person that really explains the speaker placement well and how it may affect the sound output ect. The average person who is starting out doing their own install, would just go bythe Dolby layout drawings thinking that is the proper layout. A costly mistake. Great work keep it up please. My Question which I'm still not sure of is the MLP placement. If my room is 5m long do I sit at 2.5m or should it be 3quaters of the room away from the screen ?
Thanks Gab! Check out ep 11 as it walks you through using a very easy to use calculator where you can visualize the modes and see seating options.
@@hometheatergurus Thanks for reply. I will check out ep 11
Great videos. I'm in new Zealand and about to plan my movie room as the roof just went on the house. If you only have 2 or for ceiling speakers. Where is the best position? Do I run top middle of and top front? Then just use rear surrounds on the bed layer? I was thinking top front and topbrear at about 30 deg from MLP. I'm only going to run 5.1.4 I think but I will prewire for the two rear surrounds in case cheers
This has shined a light on the inadequacy of my set-up. My ceiling is only 7' so my front heights especially, need to be moved from the front wall out into the room along the ceiling. As it stands, the angle of attack from my ears to the center of the speaker is ridiculous. My front heights are approximately only 4' above my ears but 8' in front of my ears. The horizontal spread is probably fine. But I need to remember that as I move them in to the room along the ceiling I need to move them toward my ears along that plane rather than simply moving them off of the wall at 90° in order to get the preferred angle of attack from speaker to ear.
Thanks for this info. It really clicked when you mentioned angles are ultimately the crucial parameter. Not distance or height necessarily.
An inclinometer and a laser pointer with some duct tape make for a great little tool for all of these placement shenanigans.
Thanks for the videos. Learned a lot.
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Thanks Fin!
@@hometheatergurus
I have a question regarding the changes I need to make in my speaker placement.
Is it necessary to tell my processor that my configuration is now (FC-RC) rather than the (FH-RH) that I have chosen in the processor menu? Moving from Front and Rear Height to Front and Rear Ceiling seems like I should choose that particular configuration in the menu. Right?
I am not using in-ceiling speakers I only own the on wall "style" of Atmos speakers. Namely some inexpensive old Polk M5 speakers. Big brother to the M3ll I suppose and probably Polk's early version of their Atrium line. Only chosen because I have 6 old Polk RT55 as my base layer with a CS400 center channel. They have similar speakers from the same era so I assumed the timbre would hold up. Sorry to be so wordy with my question. I suppose I should set my processor both ways and see which one sounds best ultimately.
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@@Finn-McCool see ep 3. The tolerances for heights and tops actually overlap mostly as front to back degrees. But yes I would label them exactly based on where they are angle and placement wise.
@@hometheatergurus
Fantastic, thanks.
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Great information,I’ve never seen such a detailed video before, surely the guys at Dolby giving us the speaker placement guide should do more to help , like yourself, I can imagine people at home will be taking measurements right now, some of the people on CZcams say you can have to many speakers , the problem is it all depends on the size and shape,from your video i gather the ideal distance is 45 degrees from speaker to speaker , give or take a bit 🤷♂️
Thanks Ninja!
Fantastic content!
Thanks Troy! And thanks for the editing magic.
I am going to go with a Top-Middle because I want to do Front Height and Rear Height to use Auro3D upmixer with my non-Atmos content (of which there is a LOT).
I recently helped a friend of mine set his system up with front and rear heights (he already had the speakers and didnt want to mount on the ceiling) and we compared Native Atmos with Ready Player One to upmix with Auromatic and the upmix was phenomenal. It almost kept up with the native Atmos.
His room is small enough that the height position gets him closer to the proper angles but I feel he does have a hole right in the middle, but its the limitstions of what he was willing to do. I got him to upgrade from a Atmos enabled ceiling bounce. His current speaker positions actually sound pretty good. We tested it with a bunch of different Atmos and DTSX discs and his height layer sounds quite good. Using 7.4.4.
So that convinced me to do 7.4.6 for my own dedicated build using heights to be able to access Auro3D/Auromatic and to use Top-Middles to fill in the hole.
Front and Rear Heights are actually Atmos locations and share most of their degree windows with top front and top rear. Many people don't realize that. Check out ep 3 where we dive into the dolby pdf showing the placement options of atmos. But yes it is a version of a 7.1.6 and sounds very good. Just make sure to get that separation from the bedlayer. The height options don't sound as good at the lower end of their tolerances.
@Home Theater Gurus what can you suggest for speaker placement in a small box room where the seating position is against the rear wall?
Glad I ran across this video. I’m running a 5.1.2 and it looks like a Top middle is the best placement for my setup as there is much debate on this subject, especially when your cutting into your ceiling, good planning is a must. I feel the majority of us out there have 5.1.2 because of cost, but starting out with a top middle makes it easier to upgrade later with a better processor and separates later…7.2.6 hopefully but who knows, 5.1.2 may be good enough with the right placement Anyways :)
if you're going to the effort to pull wire for a pair of overheads, why not pull for 4 spkrs? You're not going to want to do that all over again in the future.
@@Marzen216 I guess I’m more fortunate than others when it comes to running wires, but I have full access to my attic so it’s really not that big a deal to add 2 more pairs of front and rear later on when I’m ready. I think the best way to think about all this is that for most of us, home theater is nothing more than an expensive hobby that ultimately is a rabbit hole of endless possibilities where there really is no end game. I’m just trying to do the best with what I have and unfortunately I’m maxed out at 7.2 or 5.2.2 and I’m ok with that for now.
Thanks! If you're doing top mid I'd go about 20 degrees forward and no more than 35 apart each way. Now if you want to later upgrade to more that isn't the best place for the top mid.
Hey mate, how happy you are with the 5.1.2? What angles did you decide to go with? Cheers
@@skywalknotpossible so 5.1.2 - I decided after much deliberation that the top middle overall was the best option when dealing with Atmos. I’m running a Marantz Slimline nr1710 processor integrated amp along side an Emotiva BasX A2 separate to drive the Emotiva airmotive T1+ towers. The Marantz drives everything else -the Emotiva C1+ center, B1+ rear surrounds, and top middle Emotiva Atmos air Vaulta in ceiling pair. A SVS PB 1000 pro Sub Slams in the rest. Its a simple bare bones symphony of sound, but I think that little slimline is maxed out-lol
The top middle sounded more “magical” when I tried each of the 3 configurations. Hope that helps. Cheers back! 🍻
Great informative video, how can I maximize my Samsung HW 950n soundbar. I don't feel I'm getting best surround or atmos from it. The 4k player is dolby atmos, rv is not. Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks
Blew my mind, never heard this anywhere else
When you say 1m to the Side Angle and 1m Forward ,so 45° ..do you measure from the tweeter? I have Nubert Nuline ws14 ,which are built Like a Center speaker.So my Center with 1m apart would be the middle of that speaker
This video was confusing at first. I’m glad I watched to the end because it clicked. I currently have a Sony receiver that handles 5.1. I’d like to install ceiling speakers to accommodate atmos. Does that mean I need to shop for a receiver that will be designed for atmos with 11 channels?
Nice man! This video makes me want to buy another subwoofer 🔊 😂, have a good one buddy!
Great content as always
Thanks Bro! And yeah you need a few more Subs..😅
What do you say about yamaha presence configuration, and atmos?
Yamaha recommends placing the presence on the front wall wider than the front speakers a bit, i understand that the 'bubble of sound' will be with holes,but there is a feeling of 'wall of sound' with distinct hight.
How do yamaha processing the presence speakers with the atmos contact? How is the result in your opinion?
Placing the speaker on the actual ceiling is not an option for me...
I dont really have good mounting points for rear top speakers, so should I try to do mid tops and front tops (labelling the mid tops as rear tops)?
Useful and logical. Looks like the mount angle necessary for most atmos setups is pretty substantial... Wondering what (if any) are good in-ceiling speakers for atmos that can be angled as drastic as necessary and still get the wife approval?
Yep we actually talk about a few good ones in the video.
Great explanation on the spatial separation. I have a big issue with my room and don’t know the best way to fix it. Unfortunately my room has a vaulted ceilings and because of the screwy layout the ceiling rises from left to right on roughly a 4/12 pitch and ends at around 12 feet. So my right side is around 4 feet taller then my left so not only would I be dealing with the angle to the seat from front to back/back to front but now also trying to get from left to right/right to left.
I have thes gsme issue with angled vaulted ceilings
@@sjsphotog I may look into some satellite speakers like the ones from svs since they are in an angled box they may point straight down once mounted on the ceiling
What height channel do you assign to the top middle in a Dolby Atmos setup? Do you use either of the middle left or middle right height channels and configure it in the processor as a top middle?
The ideal Atmos setup for my room is 5.1.2 with only two in-ceiling speakers right above the main listening position. Will this perfect reasonably well, or should I consider 5.1.6 with the additional height channels being up-firing speakers? Any thoughts on that would be appreciated. (My ceiling is 7' high, so quite low.)
Hello, How would you calculate the width apart of the mid tops at 90 degrees? I want to setup mid tops and front tops, would the mids width be parallel to the front mids? Lets assume the top fronts each 3 feet apart from the center, would the mids also be 3 feet apart? Thank you.