5 ERP Tips for Anxiety: #5 Always Punch Hard
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- čas přidán 28. 11. 2013
- Find compulsive patterns throughout your life and eliminate them. If you practice reacting to anxiety in one area of your life, that's going to teach your brain to do it in other areas.
Mark you are a freaking genius!! Have you been studying my life??!?! I'm very happy I found you!
Your videos are actually helping me, i have been falling back into my compulsions and ruminating further strengthening the OCD. Whenever I start to get hopeless, I turn to your channel...
And this video totally called to mind the fact that Im a compulsive eater. An eye opener!
NO DISLIKES! And for a good reason too. I suffer with OCD and man has it been a hard battle, your videos is the only thing that has helped me. It all makes so much sense and actually works! When I first developed OCD I thought the way to solve the issue was to go over it over and over until I truly understood and could move past it. But like you said, it just moves to another worry. Had to learn to Not feed the beast.
Thanks! This video put a smile on my face.
Thanks Mark, You are wonderful in reasoning.
Thank you Mark. You are wonderfully encouraging, and your videos are helping me to find hope and a way forward.
Great! Keep pushing forward one step at a time!
THIS. What you said about food. I wasn't allowed to express my emotions growing up so I learned to stuff them down. Expressing my anger or hurt, even in a healthy way was met with abuse and so I've learned to label them as "bad" and idk how to unlearn this yet.
Has your situation improved? If so do you have any advice?
Thanks Mark, really love your videos and I'm slowly but surely getting better. Your videos really help thank you!
That's fantastic, Kyle! Keep pushing along one step at a time. It seems slow but small, daily investments in health have huge pay-offs down the road. It's so strange when I look back at how my brain worked in the past. It's great to see the changes build up over time.
I have OCD and its hard for me. Thanks so much for making these videos. They help a lot.
Your videos are great man. I have bad ocd and your videos help
U de man, Mark. You have inspired me to make changes in my life! Thank you!
Enjoy the changes ahead!
I'm a recent Christian and this i wasn't taught at church but i see things this way. Medicine is for the Physical body and The bible and the Christianity religion in general is for the brain because the bible teach us to do good. And this caught my attention Our ups and downs are the same as a christian has his up in downs in a "spiritual fight" the bible says if God with us then who against us the bible also knows that we aren't perfect same as a person going through his fight with a mental disorder he does good then he relapse like you said and drops down but the Christian and the Person for non religion go through up in downs. God is my Therapist when i watch these videos i've been doing what you been explaining and i never had a real therapist just by what the bible says. All this came to me cause i see both sides scientific and religious view. "Science without religion is lame Religion without science is blind"- Albert Einstein. I find this to be true. I know he didn't believe in god but doesn't change the fact that he had some kind of wisdom.
Lovely videos, I just went through and watched a whole bunch after having an anxiety/intrusive thought episode. Not really in a place to comment intelligently, but thank you for making so many videos addressing this really painful & difficult subject.
Thanks! Sorry to hear about the intense episode but I hope it's a learning opportunity for tackling the beast in the future. Happy New Year!
Reee
Mark thank you sooo much! Always obsess over my looks and my acne and i ruminated hours how i hated ma skin and what to do to make it better. I always asked my mum for reassurance if my make up was okay ALL the time. Well now i know what to change and how to move forward in my journey to recovery! Thanks a Lot!
You're welcome!
So how do I recognize those patterns/behaviours you start to talk about at 2:40 , that will cause the OCD to jump to another (new or earlier) symptome.. ??
top bloke
Thanks man I subed a while back and wanted to ask, since im a teen and I try to fight compulsions, will this give me pimples acene etc? Since I stress on not doing the compusion? Cuz I havent done a certain ocd ritual in a week and its driving me crazy
Thanks for subbing! Well, with any fear of any possibility, we have to accept that it might happen, or it might not happen, and that includes acne. Are you learning to cut out compulsions with the help of somebody who is experienced in doing it? Because it's important to start with very easy compulsions first and then move your way up to the tougher ones. If you started with something you really want to eliminate, it's not surprising that it might be very difficult and cause lots of anxiety. But that is also part of the process, too. Learning that you can experience lots of anxiety and it doesn't have to change your actions is a big step in the recovery process. However, it helps to work with somebody who can show you how to structure a plan of attack for all of your compulsions, starting from the easiest, building up your skills and strength, and then tackling the toughest.
Hi Mark, I just wanna ask u,how to use erp on Somatic OCD,it's very taught and this disorder is hell.Thnx for videos
Yep, my brain IS a puppy ... what a brilliant analogy.
Major Aha moment. Yes... I did not think some of them were big deals....but I can see the value in identifying all of them and using these tools across the board. It is like.. if you have a scab...(or these intrusive thoughts..). why focus on them or keep picking the scab when it will just bleed I remember after a break up.. .. I was obssessed with this guy.. I didn't think of it that way but now it is clear... It was my OCD.. LOL. I would check his FB page all the time and then get anxious and then go back and do it ..... why was I doing that to myself? I think practicing self love is also so important on this journey to recovery. To look at ourselves with unconditional love. to not judge ourselves.. to know that this is a journey to heal and God gives us what we an handle.. I believe that. We have to be willing to take that leap and trust in order to heal It is so scary...but I won't let the fear stop me. I am worth it and so is everyone who deals with any struggles in their life. Thanks for all you do and post for all of us on this healing journey.
Love these 5 tips Mark! They're all so true. U nailed it in this vid when u mention setbacks can happen & that we need to just keep fighting until we get to the root of the problem. I was trying to over distract & run from my thoughts . That never works lol. Now that ive been progressing I notice as soon as i get a thought or feeling my only issue is that i'll get really nervous & think why am i feeling this i was just fine the last "X" amount of days. But as you mentioned we cant constantly check or try to come up with answers. What advice would u give to help me better handle this now & in the future?
08WSChamps Thanks! Something that might help is learning to accept whatever you're feeling. Judging what you're feeling is a common OCD compulsion. You've seen that your brain likes to react to uncertainty about what you're feeling, so now you can be prepared next time it does that, and just notice that you're trying to judge how you feel, and instead of continuing with that, choose to do something healthy that's aligned with your values. If you feel strange, you can do healthy things. If you don't feel strange, you can do healthy things. Chasing certainty about how you feel will only make you more uncertain about how you feel.
That's all very true Mark, b/c I've noticed as I've progressed I've had to go from constant distraction like always going out with friends or some other sort of activity and as soon as that ended thoughts came back. Now I've been able to relax and cope better, when I get a slight feeling or thought I try to calmly move on to something productive. It can still be a bit scary at times, but the positivity is beginning to out-weight the negatvity. I believe that continuing to meditate and as you've mentioned continuing to accept will be critical as I continue to live a healthier, happier, and overall more successful life as I move on.
08WSChamps That sounds like a great approach. These are practices that we keep with us and keep expanding and developing as we do more and more of the things we want to do in life. Enjoy the practice!
I'm always motivated after watching these videos. Like after a really good motivational movie where you wanna change the world after it.
Thing is I'm experiencing a kind of melange of motivation and a priori feeling of disappointment .Because I keep forgetting and then in the evenings I'm thinking aaaaaaaaaawww Did the same old thing again.
It's soooo frustrating.
I guess I just keep going.. and if it takes a million years :D !!!!!
1Kilili This is one of the reasons why I'm not a fan of motivation. Maybe check out my video on motivation: czcams.com/video/34xevxBI_FE/video.html OCD is very much about trying to control feelings, positive or negative. We get stuck in believing that if we feel a specific way, then there're things we can or can't do. But we can do anything regardless of what we're feeling. So it helps to identify the healthy things we're going to do, and then do them. Feeling motivated or anxious or sad or happy or apathetic are all fine. You can feel any of those things and do the things you value and you can feel none of those things and do the things you value.
I think you're right. I now decided to make an exact time schedule for each day before I go to bed.
It feels distressing to know you cannot rely on your thoughts. But only on a piece of paper with values on them.
In meditation sometimes I get to a spot where I feel emerging thoughts are trustworthy.
I think it's extremely important to turn your face toward the seemingly ugly face of those emotions. and try to find a space of peace within them.
Thanks Mark. I watch these videos on a daily basis as I recover from OCD. One of the struggles I have with being well is the identity change. A lot of people who are healthy are also quite square / boring. My friends who are deep in their mess are also fun, interesting and weird. I'm finding it hard to totally buy into the identity of "healthy, grounded person." I assume you come across this from time to time. What experience do you have of interesting people becoming well? (I know that technically everyone is interesting, but some are more interesting than others :p)
This is very common. It comes up in all sorts of ways but it's firmly rooted in OCD. It's just like any other obsession/compulsion: there's an uncertainty about a feeling we don't like and then there are things we do to relieve that uncertainty that come at the expense of our long-term health and happiness. It's Stockholm Syndrome--I have the opportunity to run away from my kidnappers but being kidnapped is so interesting! And the kidnapper's buy me pizza! It's not so bad! And freedom is so uncertain! The cage is safe :) It's not trapping me, it's protecting me :D ... So part of this, is just starting to recognize that. It helped me to see that my brain got me into this mess and I always had reasons for compulsions. I had to become very skeptical of everything coming out of my head because I could see it hadn't had my best interests in mind. The other thing that I find really important is switching how we approach life. When we struggle with OCD, we want to get stuff. Get safety, get reassurance, get amusement, get enjoyment, get love, get excitement, etc. We do compulsions to get stuff. And that extends to happiness and our social life. Working on recovery meant I had to start building and creating stuff in my life. I had to start giving and take responsibility for my experience. Enjoyment isn't something I get, it's something I give. It's a practice. It's 100% my responsibility. Making things interesting is up to me. I really enjoy being responsible for my own happiness. And I can go do so much more now that I don't have to struggle with mental illness. And I can do all of the things I've always wanted to do but couldn't and I do all sorts of things I never would have imagined doing and couldn't have seen when I was deep in the hole and afraid to leave it.
Thanks Mark. The tricky thing is I'm on this two week cycle. Things get calm, go well, then I get ungrounded, start over. Working in my field this screws things up. How do people punch hard every evening for weeks on end when it's so easy to skip a little? It gets worse the more successful I get in my field.
This is very normal. There's an exercise I find useful for this, where you map out what happens around that cycle you're noticing. There's a drawing of the exercise on the slide behind me in this picture: instagram.com/p/BKeXd3QhIQs/?taken-by=markwfreeman Everybody runs into these points where we keep falling back into the hole. By mapping it out, we can start to see the changes we actually need to make. One thing that I find useful is ditching the idea of needing to be "grounded". It just becomes a reason to go backwards. People will stick different names on it, and think of it as a support, but it's like any other feeling we chase. The brain only uses it to trick us into compulsions again. It's very useful to feel ungrounded and do healthy things.
Mark Freeman Thank you. I've sketched out two maps; the typical compulsive day, and the tendencies I've learnt more recently to keep some balance and emotional congruence at the various junctures as they present themselves. It's about keeping balance, which is different to chasing a particular state. Akido fighters lose their balance all the time; the experts just know how to get it back.
profound mark . fucking profound. @@everybodyhasabrain
I find my brain going in to self congratulation mode sometimes. " aren't I doing well", "I've cut out this, this has improved", e.t.c. Basically because it feels good. I then remember this video and get back to the present. It is good advice..
Congratulations on bringing yourself back to the present! Enjoy!
Hey Mark, I've been dealing POCD for a about a year now and I know I should treat just like general OCD, but I'm not entirely sure how to do ERP. I can keep my compulsions and not check if I have any feelings towards children and stuff like that, even interact with young family members. Somebody suggested that I google image search children, but that really doesn't sound healthy to me and makes me incredibly anxious when I even consider typing that in. I just really need a guide on what to do here.
Yeah, whoever suggested Google image search as an ERP exercise is probably not very knowledgeable about recovery from OCD, so that's great you recognized that wouldn't be healthy.
ERP is about not engaging in compulsions. With OCD, we experience worries and then we engage in compulsions (inside our heads and outside of them) to try to make the worries go away, try to be certain about them, try to prove them wrong, etc. ERP would focus on stopping the compulsions you engage in as a reaction to this worry. If you can access an experienced therapist with a great track-record of helping people recover, I'd definitely recommend that. Getting over OCD isn't rocket science (it's neuroscience), and there's lots of professionals who specialize in helping people recover, so working with one of them on a structured program could help much more than finding random ideas on the Internet.
When you work with a professional, I'd also suggest being open to dealing with compulsions that might not necessarily seem connected to this particular obsession. Building great mental health is like building great physical health--you might have an end goal you want to reach, like running a marathon, but you won't start the process of reaching that goal by running a marathon. There's all sorts of things involved in getting to the point where you're running a marathon. Mental health is the same. If your goal is to get rid of this particular set of symptoms, it's likely there's going to be many different changes and supports along the way to achieving that. That's why I always talk about not getting caught up in themes.
There's a big OCD monster and a particular theme is just one of the monster's claws. We may not like getting scratched by that claw, so our immediate reaction when that claw is hurting us is to want to get rid of the claw. But the monster will just use other claws, or its teeth, or grow the claw back, unless you kill off the beast. We might not be bothered by the other claws, and we might even really like having the monster around and think its an important part of our personality, but for long-term recovery and health, I think tackling the entire beast is preferable to focusing in on a tiny set of symptoms.
Thanks mark, with your response I was able to work out what were my compulsions with my therapist. I made a list of them and cut them out one by one, but I noticed that when I was unsure of what to do in a situation, I would always try to work out what not to do. I decided to slip the thought process on its and decided to tell myself what I could do (continue with whatever I was doing).
Its proven pretty effective and my anxiety is rarely that high as of recent. What I'm noticing though is that my thoughts are still quite frequent. I'm staying strong with my radically accepting and unhindered attitude, as I have been for a long time. I'm comfortable with the possibility that this may take me another year to recover to a satisfactory position.
I've also noticed that alcohol increases symptoms during consumption and the day or so after. So I've cut drinking to only when I'm out with friends at a bar on weekends.
Thanks for the assistance, I may reply again in a month or so.
Moki Moki That sounds like great progress. Congratulations. Flipping the thought process is totally the trick to use there! Nice work.
I saw all 5 tips and its true. I still remember at first when i was scared to do many things but i was tired of being anxious all the time so when my brain would tell me dont do it, i would just do the opposite. My anxiety has dropped tremendously but its still there. One of my issues is how I literally see things. I don't know if it's because of the anxiety and how my brain interprets things. I feel woozy all the time. Will this eventually go away? I also noticed that my negative chatter is more quiet ever since I started mindfulness meditation. I'm more positive now and more in control. I'm just concerned on how I see things. Like I constantly check my vision and if I'm seeing correctly. My trigger was that I was seeing double and it instantly gave me a panic attack. After that I was always concerned about it. Any tips?
That's awesome you're taking steps to deal with this and making progress with supports like meditation. It helped me to cut out compulsions and I define a compulsion as anything that I do to cope, check, or control uncertainty or feelings I don't like. So checking your vision is something I would classify as a compulsion and cut out. As long as you react to those vision-related fears, your brain is going to keep questioning if you're seeing things correctly. So the more you check, the more you'll have to check, and the more you'll see reasons to check.
Happy not-checking!
Thanks man! Another thing that always gets me is when I read stuff like "anxiety is something I will have to deal with all my life " or that it can nvr be cured.
Is this true?
Angel Zavala Here are a couple of things to think about:
1) You already know you have compulsions related to checking up on health worries (like the vision-checking compulsions) so it's not uncommon to have others (like checking if you'll deal with chronic anxiety issues). For me, it was really helpful to see the common underlying connections between compulsions. Then I could tackle them as a single entity. If any health worry popped up, I knew it was just another attempt by my brain to engage in compulsions.
2) Anxiety is an emotion and it's totally normal to experience anxiety. If you weren't experiencing anxiety, that would be a sign of something seriously wrong with you. Typically, the only people who don't experience anxiety either suffered a traumatic brain injury or their brains didn't develop properly in adolescence. A "cure" that involves brain damage doesn't sound like much of a cure to me. If you're wondering whether anxiety disorders are chronic, I'd say that's definitely not true. But mental health is chronic, just like physical health. You will always have health and it will always vary depending on your environment and the choices you make each day. Building great mental health is just like building great physical health. You might still be experiencing lots of anxiety and it might be bothering, but consider how recently you started making healthy changes in your life--building a healthy brain doesn't happen overnight, just like building a healthy body doesn't happen overnight. Sticking with healthy changes and making them a lifestyle, instead of a destination, has really helped me and I definitely have no intention of going back to struggling with mental illness and anxiety disorders.
Yes sorry, I know we all have anxiety at a normal level. I was worried that the anxiety disorder was chronic. I have about 4 yrs dealing with this. I was taking meds but they stopped working for me. So I decided to do it on my own and try to get over it. I have about a month that I started meditating and doing something about it. Ive read alot of stuff but really don't know what to believe and what approach to take. I will definitely try to stop checking up on my health.
Angel Zavala When it comes to gathering advice about overcoming anxiety disorders, I always recommend that people speak with people that are recovered. If you speak with people that live with an anxiety disorder, they'll tell you it's chronic. It's like if you want to get into great physical shape--speak with somebody who exercises all of the time and is in great shape. If you gather advice from people with anxiety disorders, you'll likely only get advice on how to have anxiety disorders.
If you're doing this on your own, it can help to grab a workbook and follow along with that. For me, Exposure & Response Prevention (ERP) and Acceptance & Commitment Therapy (ACT) were two types of therapy that were really helpful for me. Books on those approaches might be useful to pick up.
All the best as the journey continues!
Does ERP tips work for social anxiety?
yes, it's probably one of the most logical places to apply ERP
My problem is that I have rituals that I have to do very often, and somethings they turn out to work, if I don't do them the thing that I am afraid of sometimes happens and I think that it's my fault for not doing the ritual, so basically I feel that the rituals really do make a difference even though I know they do not, also, I have never talked to a therapist about it and thus have not been diagnosed with ocd even though I'm sure I have it
+Dylan Z What you're experiencing is totally normal. Everybody who struggles with these issues can think of real examples to validate engaging in compulsions. They always seem like they "work". But it misses the bigger picture of how the compulsions affect our lives. Engaging in compulsions is like a person hitting themselves in the face with a hammer because they're afraid they might get stung on the nose by a bee. Maybe there was a time when they actually did get stung by a bee. And maybe there really was a time when they hit the bee away with a hammer. So they keep hitting themselves in the face with the hammer to prevent a bee stinging them again. And that might work, but by choosing to do that, they're also choosing the other consequences of those compulsions, like a broken nose. So I find that it helps to not engage in compulsions because of the other consequences of the compulsions. Those are things I don't want in my life anymore. If you need help with cutting out compulsions, it could be useful to chat with a therapist to learn more about that so they don't interfere with the things you want to do in life.
Thanks, that was a brilliant way to put it,and I will try to keep that in mind, I have been able to stop myself from doing the rituals before but only for a day or two at the most, they usually stop when I'm very angry about something but once I start to feel happy again they come right back, they also change a lot, I know that it is just ocd and that the actions don't do anything but it makes me feel so much better when I do the rituals because I feel like it cancels out the bad thought, I will continue to try to quit doing the rituals but I doubt I'll speak to a therapist about it any time soon, plus, I'd rather solve it on my own because it will make me feel more confident about the whole thing,
I struggle with thoughts so much always negative mostly religious always in fear do I have ocd
I had similar problem, yes HAD, thanks to Mark and some other youtubers. It's easier said than done i know but, all you have to do is accept the thoughts, not like they are true or something but like they are here and they will go away like any other thought. Yes i know they don't go away, they are interrupting your other thoughts completely random.
Well i think that negative thoughts appear after a lot of anxiety and stress. "Why they keep popping in my head when i totally disagree with them ?!" They pop up to everyone, random, stupid, unexplainable thoughts but other people just don't care about them, so they go away. But with anxiety disorder is different, actually i think that there's a lot of "devil will find work for idle hands to do" in that more than OCD or something. I don't mean literally "devil" but when you are alone with your thoughts way too much and when your mind doesn't have an occupation, it find it's own "work" you know like over thinking and stuff, then you start to react to those negative/anxious thoughts, so they become like a plant and you wondering why is it happening and how to stop them - is a pouring water on a plant to keep it growing.
Religion can be trigger too, cause you ask your self "how can i think about something like that, I'm religious !" And that's even worse, you start to feel guilty for everything - because of nothing, stupid thought, fart in the wind, that thought is not you, and it's not sin or something.
So don't react to them, don't try to find their cause or something, just let them stay for as long as it needs, and leave them. First it can be hard but after they just disappear, and now i can think about the time when i had them without any stress, cause i know what they are - shite.
I don't have ocd like that i'm over hygienic person, have to check doors or repeat stuff to stop these thoughts. But i had like you constant negative thoughts, about failing at something, or even "what if i hurt someone"... I know how you feel, they are terrible and self-destroying specially when your seeing on life is completely opposite of that thoughts. It can be pretty big brainfuck, i nearly had panic attack once 'cause i was thinking i'm going insane or stuff... It's funny now but then it was hell, so i said to my self enough of worrying about some thought, this --> sdfasfwda
Great idea and great concept, but when I bring crap into my house, I eat it! Usually all at once!! LOL
That's what the first video about eating ice cream is for. You can do it! It's really useful to learn how to bring this stuff into the house without eating it all. Start with something small, like just a chocolate bar or something like that.
I am doing Art of living yoga from one year, I did not know the how to use mind power
But after watching this video, I realised, all my mental compulsions are just like a tree, the same tree with different branches (thoughts). I was thinking I have to check for AIDS, cancer etc many things. But the root of all problem is the same tree (which is my f**ng thinking).
From now on everyday I stand in front of mirror and expose to these thoughts and try not to react. I think this process kills my OCD.
@MARK - Could you please correct me if I am wrong..
+venky Dude I'm not sure about the purpose of standing in front of the mirror. Why not just do the things you want to do in life?
Hi mark,
I thought in order to practice ERP, I have to bring the problem in mind and try not to react to that thought.
Do u think its a wrong practice.
+venky Dude Are you saying that if you don't check in the mirror, you won't have worries about these things?
Hi mark,
I feel, if I practice of not thinking further, I will get used to it for the whole day.
Otherwise I know these techniques, and if I don't practice them separately then its difficult to practice when I suddenly encounter the scary thoughts.
I also feel ERP means we have to expose to such thoughts but don't react to it.
Hey Mark, I totally love your videos and everything, but I thought I'd bring something up that you may or may not want to consider.
I have an eating disorder and some of the people I link these videos to have eating disorders as well, and our compulsion is to avoid food that is perceived as a threat in some way. I totally get that you're talking about people whose compulsion is to eat everything in sight when anxiety shows up, but for those of us on the opposite end of this spectrum, we're trying to overcome our drive to restrict food in response to anxiety, and previous orthorexia (OCD obsession with eating only the PERCEIVED healthiest foods) sufferers may find that talk triggering.
I'm currently working on building a healthy relationship with food that doesn't include eating certain foods out of compulsion as well as restricting foods out of compulsion, so I just thought I would bring this up with you to help keep some of your audience members in mind.
However, this channel is all yours, and you can say whatever you want! I find plenty of videos of yours that are helpful that don't mention food at all anyway :)
Thanks for comment! And congratulations on working at building a healthy relationship with food.
What you mentioned is something I consider when making this video or any other video that mentions specific symptoms. It is a difficult issue to navigate. The problem with doing videos on specific symptoms is that there will always be people that have the opposite symptom. Focusing on a specific symptom also misses the point that I always try to make that the symptoms are irrelevant. Regardless of the symptom, the pattern is the same: the person experiences an urge, and then they react to that urge to provide short-term relief from anxiety at the long-term expense of their health and happiness. Sometimes people react by not eating, others react by eating, others react by drinking alcohol, or doing drugs, or by obsessively trying to control everything, or obsessively avoiding any responsibility, being clean or being messy, performing rituals, and so on.
Exercise is a good example of this conundrum. I had many compulsions related to exercise. So telling people that exercise is a useful support for overcoming anxiety disorders is only true if they exercise in a healthy way.
Since I've brought up food, I really should provide a more holistic look at all the different ways we get unhealthy with food. Would you like to help me write up a video on eating disorders? What have you found useful on your journey to building a healthier relationship with food?
Thanks!
Thanks so much for your reply, Mark.
From my time spent in eating disorder recovery land, I've learned that the drive to restrict food in response to the anxiety is not just the polar opposite of the drive to eat everything in site. I believe when you refer to compulsions about eating everything in sight, you are referring to a binge eating disorder, correct? Restrictive eating disorders are on a spectrum of behaviors where the main compulsion is to restrict food. Binge eating disorders do not fall under that spectrum. Those of use who are genetically disposed to restrictive eating disorders (which I suppose i'll abbreviate with RED now) cannot switch to what might be referred to as binge eating disorder, as an RED is its own distinct entity in that way.
However, REDs do fall under the OCD spectrum! I agree, worrying about the type of symptoms you have when engaged in OCD is fruitless as the underlying mechanism needs to be dealt with. REDs pretty much have the exact same mechanism, but the compulsion to restrict can never be replaced by the compulsion to eat everything in sight. REDs change around to bulimia, anorexia, orthorexia, etc, but the basic commonality is an avoidance of food in some way. Someone with RED cannot binge eat out of compulsion.
As far as I know, not everyone with OCD has an RED but someone with RED is likely to have OCD. The drive to restrict food comes specifically for those with an RED.
My knowledge comes from youreatopia.com if you ever want to read up on this specific subject a little more.
I feel like I've just made a huge deal out of such minor details, and I'm kinda sorry for that...it's just those of us with REDs get a little vulnerable when food is talked about in a "don't eat so much!" sort of way, and it's not something that just changes around to its opposite compulsion. It goes into remission or it is active.
Again, I just thought I'd bring awareness, not trying to put down your incredible videos and knowledge.
My journey toward a healthy relationship with food is complex and something I'm still figuring out, and I've gotta go, but I'd love to offer my insight later on.
You rule Mark, keep on fighting the good fight!
The Spoon Thanks for bringing awareness to this!
I should have been clearer in my previous response. I didn't mean to imply that people would switch from RED to binge eating. I can see why it was confusing on that point because of how I was using pronouns. I've edited my original response to make it clearer.
Please do offer any insights or ideas you have later on if you get chance.
Thanks!
Mark,
Basically how I'm working on my relationship with food is not overthinking it anymore. In the past, I would have certain circumstances, situations, places, times, types of foods, and orders of foods in which i'd feel safe to eat them. In the midst of my orthorexia, I was constantly doing nutritional research, reacting to any little things I thought was an ailment. Reactively taking vitamins, or reactively eating a certain type of food.
For someone with a compulsion to eat only the healthiest and purest foods, it helps to actually go for those "junk foods" and eat until you no longer desire eating it to break out of that fear and compulsion to eat less or eat healthier.
Often, those on the RED spectrum have starved themselves for weeks, months, or years, and thus actually have a lot of "catch up" to do, and to really get over these compulsions to restrict requires no food being considered off limits. The process of physical recovery from RED is a little controversial, but I know from experience that this seems to be the best way to really mentally recover. I feel so much healthier, balanced, and clear headed than I ever did when I was trying to hard to make sure my diet was the purest and most healthy.
After the initial experience of letting go of my hang ups with food, I found my diet less focused on the one type of food or foods I denied myself for so long, but I diet that included good amounts of everything for whatever I needed to eat that day. I also don't freak out anymore if I've eaten less than ideally on any given day.
Hope this sheds a little bit of light on REDs. I personally struggled with orthorexia, but as I am recovering, find myself jumping around REDs much like my OCD is jumping around. Obsessive healthy eating and compulsive food avoidance can be a killer, but with the right tools and information and the will to succeed, I think people have great, great chances of success and living healthy lives with healthy relationships toward food. If you would like me to elaborate on any aspect, I would be glad to.
***** Also Mark, I'm sorry I made a big deal out of this.
I think I was arguing a position that may have had some truth but ultimately was getting caught up in details that didn't matter all that much.
I know that many of the symptoms or themes are all manifestations of the same underlying causes, but sometimes, you can "know" something and not really practice it. I was engaging in many of my symptoms instead of the cause.
If I worry about symptoms, I find that the symptom I'm worried about often gets activated and progressively worse. "Am I engaging in this symptom? Am I making sure not to act compulsively? Wait, I should be taking out only one compulsion at a time, etc."
I find it so much more fruitful to just look at that underlying fear of uncertainty and just embrace it all. I know when I am acting compulsively regardless of what exact behavior I'm doing and I stop that, whatever it may be, instead of worrying about if my behavior is washing my hands or restricting food.
Please, continue to talk about whatever you want in your videos, and i'll (or we'll, rather) embrace the anxiety or uncertainty whenever it rises up. :)
Good tip but the name of it doesn’t clearly reflect what this tip actually is.
Oh no!